The BBC’s The Big Questions hosted a heated exchange on Sunday between Rabbi Yitzchok Schochet of London and Doctors Taj Hargey of the Muslim Educational Centre in Oxford and Mahmoud Hawari a leading Palestinian spokesperson.
The opening question was: “Is Israel Justified to Bomb Gaza?” Marking his return to the programme, Rabbi Yitzchok Schochet began by stating: “My heart goes out to the Palestinian people. I think it is a tragedy of the highest order.”
At this point, his co-panellists which included two leading journalists and top TV Presenter Esther Rantzen, herself a left wing liberal Jew, sat amazed at these seemingly liberal remarks by Rabbi Schochet. Even the two Muslim representatives were smiling.
But Rabbi Schochet then dropped a bomb of his own when he continued: “I call upon all Palestinians everywhere to rise up and take a stand once and for all…against the Hamas terrorist so-called government that dares to use them as human shields, so that if they cannot win the physical battle they can at least try and win the PR war.”
He went on to point out that Israel has demonstrated so much restraint over the past few years, “but there comes a point when enough is enough. And six thousand rockets are more than enough.” When challenged by the presenter Nicky Campell about the 72 Palestinian children that were killed against the relatively few Israelis, Rabbi Schochet immediately countered: “This is not a numbers game. At the end of the day if those rockets will have gone off and killed two-three million Israelis, that is precisely what Hamas would be looking to achieve. That we had the good fortune of that not happening has no bearing on the fact that they are deliberately targeting civilians, Israel is trying desperately to avoid that.”
Dr. Taj Hargey resorted to the age-old arguments about the Irgun, occupation and how you cannot equate Anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. Mahmoud Hawari added that it was a myth to believe that six thousand rockets were fired upon Israel and that the Israeli response was completely disproportionate to the attacks from Gaza. Rabbi Schochet again countered: “It’s disturbing when you start to believe your own lies about this being a myth. I would only ask you, “What constitutes a proportionate response? Would you consider a proportionate response for Israel to drop six thousand missiles back into Gaza and however many may be killed in the process, then so be it. I wonder what the UN would have to say about that?”
Another member of the audience, noted commentator and novelist Douglas Murray took up the argument at that point and spoke particularly passionately in defence of Israel, which Schochet said was really heart-warming. “It was heart-warming that there was a lot of pro-Israel support in the audience as well as from the front row such as Douglas Murray who spoke up really well in defence of Israel. I think it reflects the BBC trying harder this time round to be more impartial about the debate and including voices that are pro-Israel.”
Things came to a head however when toward the end Dr. Taj Hargey drew a parallel between the Warsaw ghetto and Gaza. Rabbi Schochet told him, “that is utterly despicable. And speaking loudly over the voice of Hargey who tried to interrupt him, he said, “You are missing the point. The bottom line is Hamas is a terrorist organisation and if they would not be firing the missiles, Israel would never have gone in, in the first instance.”
Even journalist Peter Hitchens, though against the Israeli attacks, joined in at that point and added: “I can’t let you get away with this. It is quite wrong to compare the deliberate extermination of European Jewry by Nazi Germany with what Israel is doing. You know it’s wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself.”
Rabbi Schochet added: “It reflects the twisted mindset and Hamas must cease and desist its terrorist propaganda which you clearly subscribe to.”
Rabbi Schochet said after the show: “People commented to me how they were amazed I kept my cool throughout. When you start to rant and rave like Hargey was doing, you lose the argument no matter. Still, when he went down the Holocaust route that was one step too far and I was not going to let him get another word in edgewise.”
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The question is loaded. Woner how the debate would pan out if it was reversed to “Is Hamas justified in firing rockets into Israel”? Then we’ll find it a lot harder to defend Hamas’s actions rather than putting the onus on Israel to defend hers. The debate is always requiring Israel to defend itself. The framing of the situation needs to be shifted and for one Hamas and other terror organisations should be under the spotlight. Here in the west we are constantly pre-occupied with what is justified according to our standards of political correctness when it would serve us… Read more »
If someone hits you but misses a couple of times would you defend yourself? Of course you will and you should if you do not want to be beaten.
My father used to say that, if I’m going to eat pork, let its grease run all over my beard and my chest. But not have even smelled it and being accused of, is stupid of mine.. Not even JESUS would heve kept on turning the other cheek. israel is accused of the worse attrocities and I say if called Nazi, let it be justified and let us submit Gaza to the same rocket bombardment its “democratically” elected govmt, Hamas does on Israel, with the same disregard for innocent civilians Hamas has, as theirs target specially civilians… This way, the… Read more »
..If Hamas is democratically elected, does that make most of the Palestinians terrorists? Most likely at least the ones who voted them into office. If the Arab nations really care about their ppl. why don’t they integrate the Palestinians into their societies and countries, as Israel has, integrating countless Jewish and Gentile people alike into their little sliver of country? Simply put, they don’t want them or care about them one iota (as we already know from their “human-shield and suicide bombing” ideologies – they just like to have a cause to attack Israel and cry to the world about.… Read more »
this is a mistake to refer to our fight from our defense versus their missles big mistake which we dont have the stomach to countermand the international community
i heard a good line yesterday
the hamas or whoever its really the palestinian people
is fighting for their land for their justice
we are fighting for the right to self defense
who will win?