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Tuesday, 9 Shevat, 5783
  |  January 31, 2023

Rabbi Braun: Opinions of ‘Lone’ Doctors Don’t Count

Rabbi Yosef Braun, member of the Bais Din of Crown Heights, has addressed the ongoing debate regarding whether or not to vaccinate against coronavirus. Full Story, Audio

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Cool!
December 17, 2021 11:17 am

Sounds like he’s pro-vaccine to me

Daas Torah
Reply to  Cool!
December 19, 2021 8:24 am

He’s saying Daas Torah. If he sounds pro-vaccine, then Daas Torah is pro-vaccine.

Ridiculous
Reply to  Daas Torah
January 12, 2022 11:09 am

יָכוֹל אִם יֹאמְרוּ לָךְ עַל יְמִין שֶׁהִיא שְׂמֹאל וְעַל שְׂמֹאל שֶׁהִיא יְמִין תִּשְׁמַע לָהֶם. תַּלְמוּד לוֹמַר לָלֶכֶת יָמִין וּשְׂמֹאל. שֶׁיֹּאמְרוּ לָךְ עַל יָמִין שֶׁהוּא יָמִין וְעַל שְׂמֹאל שֶׁהִיא שְׂמֹאל.
sefaria.org/Jerusalem_Talmud_Horayot.1.1.7
This is daas Torah.

There's your answer
December 17, 2021 11:17 am

The majority of doctors and rabbis say that you should get vaccinated.

End of discussion.

Educate Yourself
Reply to  There's your answer
December 20, 2021 2:24 am

False. Read the actual Torah and Talmud. If there is any minority opinion, that is considered as well. The “minority” has equally educated Torah scholars and this “minority” is growing weekly as the death count by jab rises to well over 20,000. Judaism does not blindly follow majority rule. Neither does Judaism believe in herd immunity. No one individual is EVER sacrificed for the collective. End of discussion.

Incredible and Succinct.
December 17, 2021 11:20 am

This should settle the matter. No more!

Proud of Rabbi Braun
December 17, 2021 11:21 am

This was an incredible message! Ultimately this should be shared far and wide.

The Truth
December 17, 2021 11:25 am

Many doctors will not come out and make a statement against the vaccine. However, when asked privately many doctors are saying not to take the COVID vaccine.

In addition, I’ve heard of several doctors saying they are afraid to go public against the vaccine as they fear their license will be revoked. It has happened already to more than one doctor.

"Many doctors"
Reply to  The Truth
December 17, 2021 12:30 pm

Do you know them? “I’ve heard of several doctors saying…” And do you know them? You’d rather believe what you’ve ‘heard’ than believe a whole world-wide community of thousands of frum doctors all over the world??

The whole world?
Reply to  "Many doctors"
December 22, 2021 1:48 am

Whos the whole world? It’s made up of a bunch of individuals and each one has an opinion. Let’s face it the media has been lying since the beginning why is anything the advocate for considered mainstream

Nonsense
Reply to  The Truth
December 17, 2021 1:39 pm

This is a baseless conspiracy theory, there isn’t a shred of evidence supporting this. Just ask your doctor if they or their family members are vaccinated and the answer will be the same as the advice they’re giving you. Please stop the lies.

well
Reply to  Nonsense
December 24, 2021 8:10 pm

My doc won’t get it and so won’t many of his colleagues. I wonder why.

Really?
Reply to  Nonsense
December 31, 2021 12:30 pm

The government’s own numbers show that 20,000 people have died from the shots, yet the shots are still being given. Compare that with the fact that the swine flu vaccine program was stopped after only a few people died.

Lol
Reply to  The Truth
December 18, 2021 7:40 pm

Has anyone done an anonymous survey of doctors to prove this? This is fake. You can make this claim about pretty much anything because it’s designed to not need any proof.

Listen to you doctor
Reply to  The Truth
December 19, 2021 8:58 am

This is exactly what rabbi braun was talking about.
Many doctors.. , you heard…it’s all nice opinions, bottom line, this is not our field, ask your doctor and yes the same doctor you go to when you are not well, that same doctor, don’t go shopping, and listen to what he or she says.

wonderful
December 17, 2021 11:26 am

about time someone spoke up. now go get your shot.

Yes!
December 17, 2021 11:33 am

Best rov in Lubavitch saying it as it is!

Thank you!
December 17, 2021 11:48 am

There is absolutely no excuse to not get vaccinated now.

WELL SAID
Reply to  Thank you!
December 17, 2021 2:45 pm

you are right

What is considered the majority?
December 17, 2021 11:50 am

There is no majority if the minority is not allowed to present its case.
Also. If the minority are greater experts in their field the majority does not necessarily prevail.
Third. When they clearly ignore remedies because they want people to be vaccinated that is a political position.
Fourth. They disregard natural immunity.

Exactly
Reply to  What is considered the majority?
December 17, 2021 1:00 pm

Dr. Malone, who invented the mRNA and is vaxxed, said publicly absolutely not to give the COVID vax to children.
The proof that it’s not about health, is that “preferred groups” like post office employees and members of Congress are being given blanket exemptions.

Malony
Reply to  Exactly
December 18, 2021 8:46 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Malone:

Malone claims to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines, although credit for the distinction is more often given to later advancements by Katalin Karikó or Derrick Rossi,[8][6][9][10] and was ultimately the result of the contributions of hundreds of researchers, of whom Malone was but one.

Nahtan
Reply to  Malony
December 20, 2021 5:43 am

He does not. He has said repeatedly he is the inventor of mRNA technology. This is true. He has often been wrongly introduced as the inventor of mRNA vaccines by those interviewing him. I’ve seen him correct people on this issue several times.

Moshe
Reply to  Nahtan
December 20, 2021 9:14 am

Actually on his website he claims to be the inventor of the mRNA vaccine as well as mRNA technology which is also false as there was a study into mRNA in 1978 which was 11 years before his groundbreaking study into mRNA

The minority are NOT bigger experts
Reply to  What is considered the majority?
December 17, 2021 2:01 pm

They’re just a few koooks with an axe to grind.

WELL SAID
Reply to  What is considered the majority?
December 17, 2021 2:45 pm

AGREE WITH U

Please state your credentials.
Reply to  What is considered the majority?
December 17, 2021 3:06 pm

Facts first: the minority are NOT greater experts in their field than the majority of doctors worldwide.
Who are the ‘they’ and what remedies are they ignoring? Again, please speak from a place of expertise and knowledge. Your credentials would at least tell your readers about your education, training, and experience to speak about this.

They
Reply to  Please state your credentials.
December 19, 2021 1:45 am

“They” are the medical establishment, the “remedies” are the very safe treatments of Ivermectin, zinc etc. No, Ivermectin is not for horses, please look it up, the one who invented it got the Nobel prize for medicine in 2015 and it was for the use in humans, not horses.

Lol
Reply to  What is considered the majority?
December 18, 2021 7:43 pm

You are completely making up a theory because the greater experts in the field are more overwhelmingly in support everyone (including healthy) taking the vaccine. So what exactly are you talking about??

YAS!
December 17, 2021 11:57 am

Wonderful to see some leadership coming out in support of common sense and science.

Excellent
December 17, 2021 11:57 am

Well said!

thank you daas Torah
December 17, 2021 12:02 pm

An island of sanity in a population of insanity

Yes
December 17, 2021 12:16 pm

This is precisely why the Rebbe told people to ask a “rofeh yedid” when it comes to medical questions, not just any doctor but a doctor who is a “yedid”, that is closely acquainted with you and familiar with your personal situation.

But
Reply to  Yes
December 19, 2021 9:02 am

It has to be the same rofeh that advises you on other matters, you can’t start picking yedidim for different subjects

Not necessarily majority
Reply to  Yes
December 20, 2021 2:02 am

If c’v someone needs to be treated for something involving say surgery does that person take a poll of all the doctors before making the decision? No, they ask their trusted doctor.
Does that person go on WhatsApp and look for people with interesting views who don’t even treat anyone anymore? No they should ask their trusted doctor. So as it turns out, if the doctor is credible he will be licensed and consult established medicinal procedure instead of making up his own stuff and thus will be able to apply it to your unique circumstances.

Reality
Reply to  Not necessarily majority
December 22, 2021 3:00 am

Ever heard of second opinion. Second opinions have saved many lives.

YES!
Reply to  Reality
December 23, 2021 8:18 am

Most people agree to this!!

You follow the same procedure
Reply to  Reality
December 31, 2021 12:34 am

You don’t ask a chiropractor or a veterinarian. You ask another real doctor who consults established medical procedures

And yet
December 17, 2021 12:17 pm

Rabbi Braun also mentiones not to be judgmental and fight about it. Regardless of here you stand or if should have an opinion or not, you should not polarise and put others down and more, because your belief even if correct.

Bottom line, you should respect the doctors and rabbi’s, yet not put others down and be divisive.

All due respect
December 17, 2021 12:25 pm

When rabbi braun says that rabbis are being paid to say what they are saying etc…, why? Is it not true? When the Rebbe said go seek a doctor and follow their instructions – those doctors then are VERY DIFFERENT doctors today! Those doctors were there for your health – today they are there for your money! Why are they not encouraging natural nutrients and vitamins? Why if a doctor gives that advice, he can lose his license? The government is wrong and no one will fight against them like our Rebbeim gave up their lives for! We dont own… Read more »

Diet
Reply to  All due respect
December 19, 2021 1:08 am

Most doctors recommend a plant based diet based on the Mediterranean diet. Stop pretending that they have nothing to say about nutrition and exercise when it is clear to everyone else who is interested in their health.

Not about health
Reply to  Diet
December 19, 2021 8:19 am

Doctors are not trained in nutritional therapy – using supplements and natural remedies to alleviate specific conditions.

Know the difference
Reply to  Diet
December 19, 2021 9:43 am

Between diet and curing an illness. What does one have to do with the other? Not one doctor will recommend vitamins or natural nutrients. NOT ONE!

Vitamins
Reply to  Know the difference
December 19, 2021 9:29 pm

You should be able to get all your vitamins from a proper diet without any special pills. A Mediterranean based diet can give you that and that’s why they are endorsed by leading health authorities but many people follow all these other unbalanced diets that require all kinds of pills to make up for the missing nutrition.

Replying
Reply to  Vitamins
December 20, 2021 10:47 am

If that works for you, do you. But the unbalanced diet that you claim is that I’m filling it with vitamins to make up for the missing nutrients – is not unbalanced. If my body needs a specific vitamin then that’s what I’ll give it, nothing more. You go to a specialist doctor when you need it, not for a daily check up. does that make it unbalanced that you are not caring enough for your health? No. Right now with the virus still lingering, certain vitamins help specifically target the immune system and thus lots of people were saved… Read more »

Thank you Rabbi Braun
December 17, 2021 12:35 pm

Please everyone do what the doctors and rabbonim say. Rabbi Braun said it as it is.

Thank you for your advice
Reply to  Thank you Rabbi Braun
December 17, 2021 2:51 pm

What does it matter to you if pp are vaccinate or not?
You do what is best for you, and let pp live their lives the way they see best.
If you do not feel safe after you took your vaccine and are afraid that the unvaccinated will infect you, means that the vaccine is not working.
When you took polio vaccine, did you make sure not to be around pp that maybe did not take it? NO! You did not even consider that.
So why now you are so concerned?

Another ignorant person heard from...
Reply to  Thank you for your advice
December 18, 2021 9:36 pm

No one said the vaccine 100% prevents a person from catching COVID-19. What it will do is keep the virus from causing the DEADLY symptoms from occurring and prevent hospitalization in the vast majority of cases. Remember the old adage attributed to Abraham Lincoln-“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.” Which, by the way, he actually paraphrased from Mishley-“Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.”

Well, in that case
Reply to  Another ignorant person heard from...
December 19, 2021 8:51 am

whether another person takes the vaccine or not makes absolutely no difference to your health or anyone other than their own. So bug off and let people make their own decisions about their own health.

Because the Rebbe said
Reply to  Thank you for your advice
December 19, 2021 1:11 am

“It is with regard to matters such as these that the axiom ‘Do not set yourself apart from the community’ applies”

Rabbi Eldet
Reply to  Thank you for your advice
December 20, 2021 8:05 am

New variants emerge largely from the unvaccinated. Not vaccinating can potentially danger others…

Clarification
December 17, 2021 12:52 pm

The Rebbe said many times regarding medical decisions that a person should ask his personal doctor or better a doctor that is a friend of his what to do regarding his health,not like it what it sounds to listen to the majority of doctors especially when voicing there opinion in public in front of the media that is not called a valid opinion, the same applies to rabbonim every person has to ask his own rov regarding personal halacha decisions and follow what he tells him,now the Rav has his ways of knowing what to answer like going by the… Read more »

Purpose of vaccine
December 17, 2021 1:04 pm

Everyone was told that the vaccine would prevent COVID, but we now see that the vaccinated still get it. Now they say, well ot will keep you out of the hospital. But again we see that wint prevent the hospital. Natural immunity and prevention are the only solution. If vaccine is so amazing, why do we need endless boosters???

If everyone were vaccinated…
Reply to  Purpose of vaccine
December 18, 2021 8:31 pm

If everyone were vaccinated, the virus wouldn’t mutate and we could get it under control.

It doesn't work that way
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 18, 2021 11:34 pm

You can’t vaccinate yourself out of a pandemic; especially with a virus that can reside in animals.

Makes no sense
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 19, 2021 12:08 am

How’s that supposed to work if you can catch it and spread it while vaccinated??? Gibraltar is 100% vaccinated and the virus is still spreading…..

Please explain
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 19, 2021 1:39 am

How does that work? If everyone was vaccinated, then it wouldn’t spread? It still would spread, and it mutates because its trying to bypass the immunity that ppl have

Not about health
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 19, 2021 8:08 am

The vaccine does not help with variants.

Rabbi Eldet
Reply to  Not about health
December 20, 2021 8:09 am

Thats Garbage. Pfizer helps with the delta variant.

On the contrary
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 19, 2021 8:54 am

It’s been mutating to become more dangerous in the places that are the most vaccinated. If people would leave well enough alone, then it would mutate into something relatively harmless (like every other respiratory virus before it). Look up what happened with the Spanish Flu of 1918, for example.

Sch
Reply to  If everyone were vaccinated…
December 19, 2021 11:58 pm

Many experts have been warning since the vaccine came out, that it is what’s called a “leaky vaccine” and that leaky vaccines cause virus mutations. Normal (not leaky vaccine induced) virus mutations make the virus less virulent, not more. We are being lied to.

Good question
Reply to  Purpose of vaccine
December 19, 2021 9:06 am

You can ask that to your doctor, if he changes his recommendation fine, if not, to bad.
Add it to another one of many things that you don’t understand

Appreciative
December 17, 2021 1:31 pm

Thank Hashem we have Rabbi Braun, and at least all those who seek Torah and truth have who to turn to.

Not enough
December 17, 2021 1:45 pm

Sadly this is not enough. He has to say clearly “get vaccinated” unfortunately too many in the community need specific instructions. This reminds me of the widespread call of the Shofar craze..

Thank you
December 17, 2021 2:18 pm

Thank you for a voice of calm leadership.

Be healthy, stay safe, and please for the love of your fellow Jews, find a way to manage your anxiety and fear without quoting misinformation and fringe medical “opinions.”

Precisely
Reply to  Thank you
December 18, 2021 10:50 pm

Find a way to manage your anxiety and fear, by not demanding that everyone else wear (ineffective) masks and take an (ineffective and often harmful) vaccine because you’re afraid of a virus with a total fatality rate of 0.6%, and most of that among the elderly and immunocompromised. The way some people talk about it, you’d think it was the Black Death.

Moshe
Reply to  Precisely
December 20, 2021 9:22 am

I guess the lives of the elderly and immunocompromized doesn’t matter. And btw the vaccine is far safer than actual Covid even if you accept the reports of VAERS (which does not establish a link between the vaccine and death) only .0022 reported deaths from the vaccine which is significantly lower than Covid

Title misleading
December 17, 2021 3:25 pm

After reading the article and listening to the audio, I think what Rav Braun said was more nuanced and complicated than is expressed in the title over the article.

Big Z Schapiro
December 17, 2021 3:38 pm

Rabbi Braun thank you so much job well done this is powerful stuff

why vaccinate instead of treating?
December 17, 2021 3:52 pm

1. Why not treat those infected instead of vaccinating with no end in sight?

Sanity in an insane world
December 17, 2021 3:59 pm

Thank you Rabbi Braun. Rofeh yedid. Period.

From Melbourne
December 18, 2021 6:06 am

Thank you Rabbi Braun. Mazal Tov.
I know Rabbi Yurslavsky said its pikuach nefesh to take the vaccine.

But I have been very disappointed that the Rabbonim have been so quiet.

Educate Yourself
Reply to  From Melbourne
December 20, 2021 2:36 am

Australia is a police state right now with quarantine camps. You really think this is about a virus with a 99.79% rate of recovery?

Listen to your own Rabbi!!
December 18, 2021 1:59 pm

100%!! Chabad is not standing on what it means!!
חכמה, בינה, דעת

Confusing !!!
December 18, 2021 10:16 pm

R.Braun said we aren’t in a position to have an opinion and in fact, we shouldn’t have an opinion but listen to ‘Daas Torah’.

SO the question remains, to vaccinate or to not vaccinate ???

Good question
Reply to  Confusing !!!
December 19, 2021 9:08 am

Ask your rov

NK Sydney
December 18, 2021 10:57 pm

Very well said. ! Now this should settle the debate. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Questions to Rabbi Braun
December 18, 2021 11:01 pm

Rabbi please enlighten us. 1. The shulchon oruj iore dea 155 1 says that if the doctor isn’t liable if something goes wrong we aren’t allowed to get treated by him and no one would be accountable, lab’s doctor’s etc for administering the vaccine. Is the shulchon oruch only talking to a rabbi or to us as well? 2. How do you get to decide what a majority of doctors are?? Do doctors that follow the cdc or the heads of their hospitals or the like count as having their own voice to be counted?? 3. Can we even trust… Read more »

to person from Melbourne
December 19, 2021 12:16 am

You totally did not hear or understand what Rabbi Yeruslavksy said. He said it’s imperative to take the vaccine because of pikuach nefesh. If the vaccine saves even one life and prevents even one person from contracting the disease or dying, then you must take the vaccine. Unfortunately, there are still people contracting the virus today and others who had the virus 8 months ago and recovered, who recently came down with new health issues, attributed to the effects of having had the virus. Follow the advice of your physician and if still in doubt the ask the REBBE for… Read more »

Dr Fox
December 19, 2021 12:19 am

The living torah today is hashgacha protis as the Rebbe clearly shows that the best doctor is not so easy to find. That the minority opinion is many times the right one. That there are many doctors that are not in line with the mazal refua. I’ve treated over 1000 patients for covid. I’ve vaccinated 1000s. The majority treated have been unvaccinated, however the majority I am treating lately are vaccinated and have been the sickest. Should you get vaccinated? Vaccinated or not you still can get covid and you can still pass it on. Proper treatment no matter vaccinated… Read more »

Hishtadlus
December 19, 2021 12:41 am

What Rabbi Braun is speaking about is the ideal. Yes, ideally we are not spending any mental or emotional energy on our health, we are simply following the advice of our doctor and not thinking any more into it. The same ideal is with parnasa: Ideally we put in minimal hours, and go home and spend the best of our kochos on what really matters. But many of us need to do more hishtadlus in the parnasa department, and we all understand and accept that. Hashem helps us based on the hishtadlus we do being reasonable for us and for… Read more »

This is sad
December 19, 2021 2:09 am

Either way you lose. You get vaccinated you might get side effects. You don’t get vaccinated You forsure dont get side effects. So what do you do?? Hmmm… Chelm had better chachamim But their all vaccinated bh Be happy and you will be set free Welcome to logic 101… Which goes as follows. Get vaccinated and you might not get covid but if you get covid remember That if you did not get vaccinated you for sure would have Got it. So what’s best to get vaccinated and then get covid or vice versa Call 1800 chelm for answers to… Read more »

It's not a matter of "opinion."
December 19, 2021 10:33 am

Rabbi Braun is demanding that we follow the decisions of the majority of rabbis. Here, he has a right to demand and we have an obligation to obey. When he chooses to carry his indignation over to the medical area, I think (if I still have any right to think) he may be on less solid ground. The Torah commands us to guard our life and our health. That is what each of us is trying to do. The “science” is still unclear and the ultimate responsibility is upon each of us. It is we who have been commanded to… Read more »

Who’s a doctor
December 19, 2021 12:05 pm

The point is this: das Toiro is you must listen to a *doctor* ie an actual professional / mumche without a extraneous agenda or fear of government, licensing bodies etc. that overrides everything. Find a *real* doctor and follow what he/she says. Not fauci, not tv talking heads or some businessman who cares about his bottom line many times more than about your health. In other words – Rofeh Yedid. It is on *you* to research the credentials and motives of the doctors you approach. Get second, third opinion etc.. And ask questions. Following “general majority” opinion on a life-and-opposite-of-life… Read more »

Other health advice
December 19, 2021 9:43 pm

We should also listen to medical experts when it comes to diet, exercise and the problems caused by obesity (so called intuitive eating and “healthy at any weight” are also against science)

yiddishe mommy
December 20, 2021 12:22 am

I was vaccinated in Feb/March and four months later got Covid anyway. Many people who recently got ill in our community even had the booster. Go figure…
No one knows anything about this virus nor its cure. It’s all a bunch of speculations. Hashem is showing us that we cannot outsmart him. Hence Omicron. We still need to do our hishtadlus, however the only answer is MOSHIACH!

Hishtadlue
Reply to  yiddishe mommy
December 20, 2021 2:07 am

Part of histadlus is to follow what recognized experts tell you, not what people say on WhatsApp

Experiment!!!!!
December 20, 2021 2:04 am

You can have a million doctors that tell a person who is בחזקת בריא that he should experiment something that may have side-effects and דעת תורה is extremely clear. אסור גמור. No consulting not negotiable that’s דעת תורה.
Why is everyone denying the fact that this is a shayle of medical experimentation oh humans. ????? It doesn’t matter anyone’s opinion if it will work or not or if it’s dangerous or not. If your בחזקת בריא. It’s אסור. זהו!!!!!!!

Question to Rabbi Braun
December 20, 2021 9:04 am

You say that the opinion of a lone doctor doesn’t count. Why by Yom Kippur, if a lone doctor says that this person must eat because of pikuach nefesh, we listen to that doctor, even if 1000 doctors disagree, one must ignore the majority? There are many lone doctors that say the vaccine is pikuach nefesh, why do you say that one must ignore this lone opinion and follow the majority? I poshut want to understand and do the right thing! (I would ask you directly in person, but because you were so passionate in your voice message, I am… Read more »

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