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Friday, 24 Heshvan, 5780
  |  November 22, 2019

New Book Takes on Messianics

A new book is taking aim at "Chabad Messianics" with the hope of setting the record straight with newcomers and the youth. Full Story

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im a meshichist
Guest
im a meshichist

Nevertheless, he was my teacher & is a brilliant man. I do not agree with his approach in this matter. However, I feel his book should be read, and let each person find their way that’ll make them feel closest to the rebbe & excited for moshiach to come.

The Wars of G-d?
Guest
The Wars of G-d?

Putting the matter of the messianics to rest hardly seems to justify stirring up old controversies. I would argue that the division it would cause will do more to distance people from Chabad than the existence of a group that believes Rabbi Schneersohn to be the Messiah. As a wise man once said, why not let G-d fight his own battles?

sorry
Guest
sorry

bs”d

the same way i wouldn’t want a book that says the rebbe is not the nassi hador(something i think every reader will agree on) i dont want a book that suggests making a new rebbe – directly against what the rebbe said in bossi l’gani 5711! -in my house
k’sivah v’chasimah tovah l’shanah tovah um’sukah! moshiach now! add mosai?!

We desperately need this in ENGLISH
Guest
We desperately need this in ENGLISH

There are so many people in Chabad who need this book in English. It is hard to sit and break your teeth on the Ivri. People wants something easy to read that they can read like a magazine, like a sefer.

Please translate this!

Finally
Guest
Finally

Its about time someone wrote a book against those who make a mockery of lubavitch and the Rebbe. And who make a major chillul hashem, and are merachek yidden from chassidus. !! Hopefully the velt will realize that lubavitch is normal, not some cult.

rabbi sofer
Guest
rabbi sofer

is brilliant kh and an incredible teacher.

Yechi Hamelech!!!!
Guest
Yechi Hamelech!!!!

The rebbe is still moshiach.

I bet you over 85% of chabad will tell you that.

I dont get it!
Guest
I dont get it!

Will good really come from this book?

Really?!

Finally
Guest
Finally

Finally, a voice of sanity. It took 18 years for someone to have the guts to say the truth.

Why???????????
Guest
Why???????????

Why raise a flag if no problem exists? You don’t have to agree with the Meshichist beliefs, but how can you dismiss them as ‘outside the pale of orthodoxy’ or normalcy – there is a clear Gemoro, Sanhedrin 98b, which discusses the possibility of Moshiach being from those who are not physically alive. And the Abarbanel learns that Gemoro quite literally, opining that Moshiach will be from the dead!

The ones causing problems are those who reopen old wounds and pour salt on them.

to 7
Guest
to 7

What is the world does it matter what “85%” will say (as if you have any clue what ppl actually believe)

The honest truth is ppl could want what ever they want but obvioulsy only Hashem gets to decide who is moshiach…

Mazal tOv
Guest
Mazal tOv

As Gil Student has shown, only a non-Lubavitcher can state that the Rebbe is Moshiach. A lubavitcher could not state that since the Rebbe clearly discounted such a view in the sichos. When he said the friediker Rebb would lead us out of golus, he meant that each manhig would lead their generation to Moshiach. Look at the footnote that the Rebbe uses on vihu yigaleinu, pointing to a midrash that Moshe rabeinu will lead his dor to Moshiach. Other sichos likewise clearly contradict the meshichist fantasies. See Gil student’s full booklet available online going through the Rebbes sichos.

English!
Guest
English!

I agree with #4. I’m a chabad BT who can’t read a word of Hebrew and really would like to read this book. Please translate ASAP.

All Anti Moshiachs are un-knowledgeable of this:...
Guest
All Anti Moshiachs are un-knowledgeable of this:...

with all due respect to Shluchim, Rabbis, & others who are sincere in their quest for truth on this subject but don’t have the time to become thoroughly well read on this subject, (by well read i mean 100s of Sichos +Footnotes, 1000s of pages just by the Rebbe on the subjct from Maamorim, Igros, Sichos 90,91,92, as well as Numerous first hand sources on Inyanei M”G) even if a Rabbi is very experienced & popular Rabbi & routine Halachic matters, this does not automatically lend credibility to his level of Knowledge or opinions on this (not so well frequented… Read more »

Let's bring Moshiach with Ahava!
Guest
Let's bring Moshiach with Ahava!

My father ob”m taught me that an anti-campaign has no realness to it because it is negating something that exists. They chose to call themselves “anti.” Maybe they should examine more clearly whatever they are against. The truth always wins. As the Rebbe MH”M states in 5751 Sefer HaSichos on Parshas Shoftim- there is a Navi in every generation who gives the Prophecy from G-d and Moshiach is coming at any minute. Believe this! Stop wasting time with a 420 pg. book of anti-ness.

only if u recieve a paycheck
Guest
only if u recieve a paycheck

some Rabbi’s are afraid to go public as a Pro
in each & every case study their paycheck….. vdal

moshicistim
Guest
moshicistim

I am sorry to say, 20 years ago we saw believed and did shlichus as the preparation for moshiach. Today the shluchim that are going out, and what limited amount of torah knowledge is a total joke. We need to go back to the bases, halacha and chassidus, which isn’t taught in our yeshivous. Now its not a fight, its more like politics with two factors in chabad which never will see eye to eye.

Properly setting the record straight
Guest
Properly setting the record straight

I think it’s time for someone to write a book for the youth outlining what both sides do actually agree on and show what it actually is being argued. If this could be done in objective way without taking sides etc, the youth would realize that what’s being argued so hotheadly is about narishkeit. The extremists on both sides would find themselves isolated and the people in the middle would find themselves with 90% of the population.

This booklet appears to do that in its name, but in reality is just taking one side.

korbanos
Guest
korbanos

Unfortunatly many of our generation are korbanos
We are going to see Moshiach when Hashem decides that is the revelation time.We can bring this closer with more Torah and Mitzvos
We have to believe in Hashem,in the Torah, and follow the Rebbe’s directions to serve Hashem better
To believe that the Rebbe is our Rebbe is 100% kosher
To believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach maybe a wish,but not an Avoida or a Mitzvah ,and to make of this idea a cult is AZ

An observer
Guest
An observer

I don’t care much for the technicality of the arguments in terms of the scriptures and how they can be interpreted in 70 ways, I believe the difference can be analyzed and rooted to a deeper level, a psychological one.

I would love to see a book by a psychoanalyst who observed the difference based on personality etc.

To rabbi Sofer and COL
Guest
To rabbi Sofer and COL

Is this what you needed in Elul???

Elul is a time of Ahavas Yisroel.

messianist?!!!
Guest
messianist?!!!

we are not messianists we are meshichistim (the way you write it over here sounds like some type of missioneries or something)

anti Chillul Hashem
Guest
anti Chillul Hashem

To #18 Of course any side that not your side is only one sided. Chabad is one side. There is one Rebbe with one view. This whole notion that we have to listen to the “other side” is a falsehood. Maybe we should listen also to the third side and the fourth etc…etc… As far as Judaism is concerned lets do the same thing, let’s teach our children about every single religion out there, the old ones and the new ones to come. Every Tom, Dick or Harry which comes up with a new religion, we will teach that to… Read more »

Kids and non knowledgeables
Guest
Kids and non knowledgeables

You think kids are frying out because they don’t know what’s/where/who the rebbe is?
Guess what NO. They’re frying out because their parents don’t care about yiddishkeit.

To everyone excited about this book. There are also many many big rabbi on the other side.

To believe that the rebbe isn’t moahiach is ludicrous!!!
You aren’t a chossid. I guess you think it will be some other rebbe?????

yanky bennish
Guest
yanky bennish

to number 12, i dont know what your smoking but i want some of it. “When he said the friediker Rebb would lead us out of golus, he meant that each manhig would lead their generation to Moshiach.” what about the fact that the rebbe said this is the last generation of galus? who are you or gil student to tell me what the rebbe meant?!?! the rebbe said “i say what i mean and i mean what i say” what about when the rebbe said that HE the memmaleh makom of the nosi hador is melech hamoshiach?

I  Don't Understand
Guest
I Don't Understand

Why would anyone want to prove that the Rebbe is not Moshiach when the Rebbe himself encouraged many times the belief that the Rebbe Nesi Doreinu is Moshiach??? Is that not fighting the Rebbe himself??

#14!! i'll correct your spelling here (your point is valid to be sure)
Guest
#14!! i'll correct your spelling here (your point is valid to be sure)

All Anti Moshiachs are un-knowledgeable of this:… With all due respect to Shluchim, Rabbis & others who are sincere in their quest for truth on this subject but do not have the time to become thoroughly knowledgeable “well-read” on this timely subject. (by “well-read” i mean on the 100s of relate Sichos +Footnotes, =1000s of pages just by the Rebbe on the subjct from Maamorim, Igros, Sichos 90,91,92, as well as Numerous first hand sources on Inyanei M”G) even if a Rabbi is very experienced & popular in routine Halachic matters, this does not automatically lend credibility to his level… Read more »

Politics
Guest
Politics

We have politics in the goyishe world and the yiddishe velt. Politics is opinions and how you interpret something. His book i believe is aimed at making less machlokes in chabad for the main reason it scares people away.

This book is the greatest ahavas Yisroel that could be
Guest
This book is the greatest ahavas Yisroel that could be

Hopefully this will bring some sanity and normalcy back to Chabad and the truth to the masses. To prevent Jews from going down a wayward path is definitely ahavas Yisroel and possibly one of the greatest acts of ahavas Yisroel.

Good job R Sofer

to #14
Guest
to #14

i think rabbi soffer knows a lot more than you so i would keep quiet

To 22
Guest
To 22

Ummh… I guess u didnt realize, but mishichist means messianist!! which equals MISSIONARY.

Sruly C
Guest
Sruly C

He said we need a new Rebbe?!

I would apply for the job if there is good dental Insurnace
2. Paid vacations frequently.
3. A nice office.

a bochur
Guest
a bochur

bs”d

i spoke to many antis over the past few years and they all agreed -besides for one- that the rebbe has to be moshiach, and that one bochur said that the only way what he says works is that not necessarily is every thing that the rebbe said true.

k’sivah v’chasimah tovah l’shanah tovah um’sukah!!

i was taking this book seriously
Guest
i was taking this book seriously

UNTIL I READ THAT WE NEED A REPLACEMENT!!! How can collive even write something like that?
And to #26, I’ve been asking this question for years now

Non chabadnik
Guest
Non chabadnik

I’m not a chabad chosid,and I always wondered about this, and i hope someone can answer. If moshiach can be someone that is no longer from among the living, why would it be the previous rebbe? Why not the Baal hatanya or the besh”t or Moshe rabeinu.

This summs up the mainstream
Guest
This summs up the mainstream

Bs”d The vast majority of “mainstream” chabad believe this sensible approach: Intro: On all matters of Halacha and Hashkafa we must follow Rabbonei Chabad. The following list of (civilized mainstream respected) Chabad Rabbis (listed below) are of the same belief as 95%of chabad arround the world: Simply put, re All matters of The Rebbe visavi Moshiach etc A Jew needs only to consult Torah Sources, and NOT to form opinions & draw conclusions based on personal feelings, wishes or comfort… or public approval.. 1. Many Torah sources in “Niglah” EXPLICITLY ALLOW the belief for “Moshiach to be Nisgalah, Niskasa, chozer… Read more »

Critic
Guest
Critic

To#24 “To believe that the rebbe isn’t moahiach is ludicrous!!!” Do you really think that your saying so makes it true? Please educate us “unbelievers” as to why it is “ludicrous” to believe that the Rebbe isn’t Moshiach?Remember we’re Chabad=chochmo,binoh,das.What logic or rational justifies your “ludicrous”assertion? One can just as easily state that believing that the Rebbe IS Moshiach is ludicrous.Remember Moshiach is not just a Lubavitcher concept.Moshiach belongs to Klal Yisroel.Do you honestly think that you can convince a non Lubavitcher that the Rebbe is Moshiach based on your “very persuasive”and”logical” premise? ” You aren’t a chossid. I guess… Read more »

#14 VERY NICE!!
Guest
#14 VERY NICE!!

Thank you collive for giving all sides an opertunity to express & discuss, that’s the recipy for arriving at a clearer picture
since free & open exchange leads to each side learning new things they didn’t know!

thanks to Collive!

geniuses
Guest
geniuses

Do you really all think anyone gives a —- what your friend heard from a bochur or what your father ob”m told you or what you think we should think of so-and-so? If you have an intelligent point to express, please do so. Otherwise, just stop wasting everyone’s time.

Surprising
Guest
Surprising

# 27 you are correct. So much of my opionion before was based on what was being said by others, messeges that I heard over and over again.Once I LEARNED how the answers to all these questions are in the sichos themseves, the fog started clearing from my eyes. Everything about what a Nasi, King and Moshiach is is spelled out in the sichos and Mamaroim and in the works of the Rambam. The fact that lubavichers themselves can say something that’s contrary to what written by the rebbe and what written by Rambam is surprising and saddening. You can… Read more »

The Rebbe OBM is not Moshiach
Guest
The Rebbe OBM is not Moshiach

To all those who think that anti-messianic Chabad Chassidim are closet “messianic” Jews: let me tell it straight – we don’t!

I grew up in CH, am a proud chossid, and think that we missed our 7th generation opportunity. Sad but true. The Rebbe presumably would have been Moshiach if Moshiach had come in his lifetime but that was not the case.

To number 33
Guest
To number 33

What the Rebbe OBM said was true when he said it, but not an absolute truth for all eternity. Meaning: If we were to have been zocheh, Moshiach would have come as the Rebbe foretold. Unfortunately, however, we were not (and no, Moshiach is not here yet) and the Rebbe foresaw that in 5772 when he said “I’ve done what I can; now you do what you can…” and “if even a few ppl really wanted Moshiach, he would have been here long ago…” He realized his lifelong dream was not to materialize…

Yechi adoneinu moreinu verabeinu Melech hamoshiach leolam voed!!!
Guest
Yechi adoneinu moreinu verabeinu Melech hamoshiach leolam voed!!!

The bucherim are the ones that live rebbe theese days not the old rabbis…… Let them fight for kavod somewhere else not on my watch!

motive for this book explains everything!
Guest
motive for this book explains everything!

after he wrote his first booklet

Rabbi Wolpo dissected his book in a scholarly classy way backed up by Numerous Tora sources & Sichos especially!

i cant wait for Rabbi Wolpo’s next Edition

Yagdil Torah VeYaadir!

Rabbis! Come out of the closet
Guest
Rabbis! Come out of the closet

I’m Pro Moshiach & Proud of it!! =)

for every Rabbi like RS who is Anti taking the Sichos literally
there are 10 Rabbonim who are Pro taking the Rebbe’s words KPshutoi!

albeit some of the Pro Rabbonim may only tell you waht they really think under fore eyes bec of financial or other considerations that may Ch”V result from coming out of the closet!

this is not communist russia
Guest
this is not communist russia

there is nothing wrong with open discourse.Its when you try to shut people down that you have a problem.This split that has happened looks a long way from being resolved which im sure saddens the Rebbe Z’TL greatly.One of the biggest topics that was spoken about was ahavas yisraoel and unity amongst the Jewish people,sadly all this friction seems to be causing just the opposite.we all daven every day to bring Moshiach so let the legacy that the rebbe really wanted to leave (make people aware of the coming of moshiach)continue in that vein.Lesahana tova Umetuka

Not About Ahavas Yisroel
Guest
Not About Ahavas Yisroel

This is not a question of Ahavas Yisroel. This is not about stirring up old arguments. This is about declaring something that has not officially been spoken about yet in almost 2 decades and needed to be said. Those outside chabad, especially in Israel, only see chabad as promoting the Rebbe as Moshiach. There is no official voice against that. If I were not lubavitch and walked into 770 to catch a minyan and read the signs on the wall I would see a clear message, black on white that the chabad headquarters is proclaiming the Rebbe as Moshiach. At… Read more »

To 27
Guest
To 27

“YISGALEH, YISKASEH, CHOIZER VENISGALEH”

hmm now where have I heard that before?

hint: 2nd coming

End the Madness--
Guest
End the Madness--

It is time to end this Christophilic messianic nonsense once and for all. It is a discgrace to the rebbe and chabad and judaism in general.

No longer dor hashevi'i
Guest
No longer dor hashevi'i

Chabad theology needs to advance if it wants to remain relevant and meaningful.

If is proposterous to suggest that

–each generation has/needs a physical moshe rabeinu
–the rebbe is still the moshe rabeinu of our “generation” even after he died.
–dor hashevi’i lasts forever…

the fact is:

–we are no longer in dor hashevi’i
–to remain a vibrant chassidus, we need a rebbe. We are not breslev.

To 48
Guest
To 48

Yeh, tell that to:

1) Rashi 2) The Sdei Chemed 3) Rabeinu BeChaye 4) The Ariz”al 5) The Chasam Sofer ….

A proud chosid
Guest
A proud chosid

Like most, I got caught up in the Rebbe has to be Moshiach frenzy during the 27 Adar – 3 tamuz era. That was the only logical conclusion at that time. After 3 tamuz I went back to the books and realized I was reading my own wishes into the Rebbe’s words. A mishichist rosh yeshivah actually helped me realize this after advising to go back to the sichoos/maamorim and learn with an open mind. The elephent in the room is that there has never been a serious discussion of the difference between a Nosi Hador and Hkb’H. Throughout the… Read more »

Enough Machlokes!
Guest
Enough Machlokes!

Wanna be Meshichist? be it! Wanna be ‘un-mishichist’? be it!

Each person is allowed to use whichever way is best for him to connect with the Rebbe.
Just don’t disrupt others from being who they are!!!
Because anyways, anything you’ll say to one ‘group’ or another WON’T CHANGE THEIR VIEWS AND WILL ONLY CAUSE MACHLOKES!!!!
Please! It’s Jodesh Elul! Lets be Be’achdus as Chassidim are supposed to be

MOSHIACH NOW!!!!!

To # 36 you can't have it both ways, your argument has a big hole
Guest
To # 36 you can't have it both ways, your argument has a big hole

If you except the concept of “yisgale Yiskase Chozer vnisgale” as a presumable fact.

Then you have to presume that all the sichos of the rebbe are talking about the frierdiker rebbe as moshiach in actuality.
As the rebbe was more “mekusher” to the frierdiker rebbe then any of the rebbes chassidim are to him.
Therfore you should be proclaiming the freerdiker rebbe as moshiach.
Since you are not , your argument has a big hole, and you are not being 100% truthfull.

Inconsistent
Guest
Inconsistent

I didn’t believe the Rebbe was moshiach even before 3 Tammuz, but for those who did I don’t see why 3 Tammuz alone would be a big issue. The Rebbe was lying basically in a coma for months before his passing, with many tubes going into his body. If a person that I’ll could have a miraculous recovery and be moshiach, why is having techiyas hameisim

Moshiach from the dead
Guest
Moshiach from the dead

Yes, the Gemora does convey that the Moshiach can come form the dead. But, again, there can be many possibilities. How do you prove that the Rebbe is the only one.
Did you know that the Satmar Rav (R. Yoilish, ZT”L) saved thousands of neshamos from going off the derech, because after the churban of WW2, they were distraught and traumatized. So, to be able to convince people stay with it after something like that, I think, takes an extraordinary individual. There were many Tzadikim in history who reached out to Yidden en masse. Doesn’t the Rambam get such credit?

to #10
Guest
to #10

There is a problem, becouse you raised a (Yellow) flag….

Read the book!

where could i buy the book in new york?
Guest
where could i buy the book in new york?

if you post a comment

to #10
Guest
to #10

for 40 years your rebbe mhahm zazal said that moshiach is from the living like the rambam writes.

after the rebbes histalchus you found me a gemorah?

how disingenuous (look it up) can one be.

hob ah bisell sechel.

Get ALL the facts...
Guest
Get ALL the facts...

There are 420 pages to write about the subject, wow…

If you say that the Rebbe isn't Moshiach then automaticly we have a new Nossi Hador
Guest
If you say that the Rebbe isn't Moshiach then automaticly we have a new Nossi Hador

If you say that the Rebbe Isn’t Moshiach (chas veshalom), because moshiach can’t come from the dead, and is from the living, then that means that there is a new Nossi Hador, Yechida Klalis, In other words, a new Rebbe, to whom you have to be mekushar. Who acvtually is the new Moshiach Shebador. (Remember. Moshiach SHEBACHOL DOR). Look how low you can fall becuase of being ignorant. Remember many smart Torah Scholars who new a lot more than Rabbi Sofer, said that the Rebbe isn’t moshiach, becuase they weren’t Chassidim. Mekushar. (the gemorah says that the TALIMIDIM said their… Read more »

Mohiliver
Guest
Mohiliver

There are numerous einiklech of the Miteler Rebbe and Tzemach Tzedek in Israel and America.Lubavitz always had a Rebbe-that’s indisputable.Boyan,Belz and Stolin in the years after the terrible churban also seemingly had no Rebbe but they found very young bocherimlech with the right yiches who grew to be fine Chssidishe Rebbeyim and leaders of Klal Yisroel.No such thing as Lubavitz without a Rebbe as a permanent fact.There were short periods in Lubavitz where there was no Rebbe but eventually someone was crowned as Rebbe. That time has come.Although Breslev has no successor Rebbe,let it be known that Reb Nosson and… Read more »

dear collive,
Guest
dear collive,

I don’t read any other sites BC they are too extreme,
I do read collive, BC in the past few years you’ve been a lot more ‘neutral’!
PLEASE KEEP IT THAT WAY!
Don’t post articles like this, try to be like fox news…fair and balanced,
Moshiach now!

Fresser Rebbe says
Guest
Fresser Rebbe says

I think its time for us all to say L’Chaim

some good Potato Kugel being served up on Carrol street

What is especially troublesome!
Guest
What is especially troublesome!

Everyone may have their own beliefs however what bothers me the most that Bais Rabainu 770 is in the hands of EXTREME meshichist that even normal meshichistim disapprove of. Where is the mesirus nefesh from those that consider themselves leaders of Chabad to finally take ACTION to bringing kovod to the Rebbe and Friediker Rebbe by bringing simple kovodike protocol that any Bais Medresh deserves al achas kama vikama 770?!

This is really pathetic
Guest
This is really pathetic

Not a SINGLE person writing here read ONE WORD of this book. Not even the editors who wrote this article have read this book, as they clearly state in the article. And you all have OPINIONS? Read the freaking book, and then we can talk. What’s going on here?

scared of controversial issues!
Guest
scared of controversial issues!

from these comments it seems that many Lubavitchers are SCARED of discussions about these issues, despite them being relevant to core/obvious issues.
thanks col for making a platform to discuss important issues.

all talk...
Guest
all talk...

….but when it comes down to it, if ANY lubavitcher were to close his eyes and imagine moshiach arriving, he will think of the rebbe, regardless what you believe. it doesnt matter what you think, the rebbe merely wants us to know what to expect. We all expect him, deep down (some deeper than others). Mission accomplished, let him come already!!

Critic
Guest
Critic

With all due respect to all the chosheve rabbonim listed above as being Meshichistin in the end they are all fallible human beings.If Rabbi Akiva, who was much greater then all of these rabbonim combined, was mistaken about the identity of Moshiach so can they.
In any case there are just as many if not more chosheve Lubavitcher rabbonim who do not believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach.In fact some of those that are listed as being pro Meshichist are definitely not.

to #37
Guest
to #37

i’m comment 24.
it says in gemara that each group always believed that their rebbe is moshiach and the rebbe in a sicha says, that we as chassidim go after our rebbe.

so i am not trying to convince any one that is not chabad that our rebbe is moshiach. i hope that you believe it otherwise you are not a chossid. preiod!

shocked
Guest
shocked

We as Lubavitchers and the chassidim of the Rebbe should not recognize the book at all!
I understand that Rabbi Sofer is a smart person but with all due respect I cannot respect such a book which shows such disrespect for my Rebbe…

Who decides OUR Derech?
Guest
Who decides OUR Derech?

We all know that on 3 Tamuz 5754 we had a number of eltere, chassidishe Lubavitcher rabonim (morei horah b’poel – raboney anash) amongst us. They (almost?) unanimously stated what our emuna as Chassidim should be.

The Rebbe instructed us to listed to Rabboney Anash. Why would we look others to establish what is our derech? Our shita is formed by Torah – as illuminated by the Rebbe and chassidus and interpreted by our chassidishe Rabbonim. They have long spoken and their opining is well known.

Ksiva v’chasima tova to all.

Its about time COL is dicussing Moshiach
Guest
Its about time COL is dicussing Moshiach

Even if its anti, the Rebbe wanted us to discuss Moshiach every possible minute.

Please take the Rebbe's words literally!
Guest
Please take the Rebbe's words literally!

The Friediker Rebbe is the Nossi Hador.

The Nossi Hador is the Moshiach Shebador.

The Nossi Hador must be alive in a physical body.

#74
Guest
#74

Thanks #74
This is who is running 770 today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marginalize them
Guest
Marginalize them

This book and others like it will help deal with intelligent people who want to get de-programmed from the meshichist brainwashing. It will NOT, however, help anyone who is emotional and does not want to really think.

You can see comments from dozens of meshichisten who post here. They are trying to speak intelligently but the bottom line is their arguments are circular. The want to rationalize their feelings no matter what.

Such people will not be influence by books or by intelligent discussions. The only solution is to marginalize meshichist beliefs and make it something that is considered disgraceful.

to number 63
Guest
to number 63

Fox, fair and balanced? LOL i guess your definition of fair is only reporting the side you agree with.

54 NISHMASOI BEE
Guest
54 NISHMASOI BEE

the Rebbeh already reconciled your prob, by saying,
a) Nishmasoi bee
b) At the didan notsach court case, as follows “whenewver i reffer to the frierdokeh rebbe der shver NASI HDOR” i include myself”
avremel shmtov was the one to testifies this on the Rebbe’s behalf to the judge!

Rabbi Sofer, while you are at it ......
Guest
Rabbi Sofer, while you are at it ......

Please write a sefer on Tzinius according to Moshiach….

The Chillul Lubavitch done by those in BOTH camps, with their lack (I say lack, for the lack of a better word),
is FAR GREATER then saying or writing Yechi……

there are 200 Rabbonim!! who signed the deceleration!!
Guest
there are 200 Rabbonim!! who signed the deceleration!!

the ABOVE POINTS ARE UNDESPUTED BY THE FOLLOWING “mainstream” Rabbis:
the following sample of Rabbi’s believe all these statements to be accurate & “Oisgehaltin” Alpi Torah & Chasidus:
Rabbi Majesky,
Rabbi Simon & Yossi Jacobson,
Rabbi Osdoba,
Rabbi Broin
Rabbi Schwei
Rabbi Schwei
Rabbi Yoel Kahan (yes go ask him one on one)
Rabbi Berel Bell
Rabbi Levi Garelik
Rabbi Ashkenazi
Rabbi Shusterman

this list is far far far longer than you listed of Rabbis who are for in support of taking the Rebbe’s most recent sichos literally!

#36
Guest
#36

beautiful!!!

i agree

All Rabbonei chabad are Pro not Anti

some just are afraid to go public!!

79! 100000% correct!!
Guest
79! 100000% correct!!

the chilul hashem & chilul chabad is massive re Tznius!

i’ve been to numerous oilumisheh communities who are far more worried about the lack of halacha than the belief of Choizer venisgaleh is Al Pi Torah sources!

Emes is Mevatel Sheker!!!
Guest
Emes is Mevatel Sheker!!!

1. Many Torah sources in “Niglah” EXPLICITLY ALLOW the belief for “Moshiach to be Nisgalah, Niskasa, chozer Vnisglala, aka for the Rebbe to still return as the “Goel” 2. Many Torah sources actually predict this exact process to be the way the Geula process (yes process) will unfold. 3. From the very first Maamer of the Rebbe, the Rebbe made the picture very clear, that we ARE IT “Doir HaShvii” as the Rebbe declared countless times since, that THIS generation is indeed the LAST Dor in Galus… 4. In Nun Alef & Nun Bais The Rebbe publicly announced & Edited,… Read more »

Critic
Guest
Critic

“it says in gemara that each group always believed that their rebbe is moshiach and the rebbe in a sicha says, that we as chassidim go after our rebbe”
True as long as ones Rebbe is alive.Nowhere does the Gemorah state that any group group believed that their Rebbe was Moshiach after their Rebbes ptirah and please lets not insult the intelligence of any normal thinking individual that the Rebbe was never nistastalik and is hiding somewhere in 770.Must we continue to perpetuate the widely accepted belief that Lubavitch turned Moshiach into a dirty word C”V?

number 25
Guest
number 25

GO YANKI BENNISH!!!!!!
u make me laugh!
from levi k

i choose to pass the NISAYOIN!!
Guest
i choose to pass the NISAYOIN!!

i trust the words of the Nasi Hador!!

This is the last generation of Galus & first of Geula!

we’r being given a test of “VaYaaminu BaHashem uVemoshe Avdo” once again!!

To # 72
Guest
To # 72

Where is it printed/posted on the web what they said?

NICHSEH doesn't mean Death!!
Guest
NICHSEH doesn't mean Death!!

the Rebbe Said the nasi of dor hashvii will have chaim nitzchiyim, bli shum hefsek chaim klal!!

its a test of faith my friends!!

read the sichos nun alef nun beis, especially kunteres beis rabbeinu…

things are very clear when u make the time to read the rebbe’s original words first hand!!

TO: #36
Guest
TO: #36

very well presented!

thank you collive for posting #36

it was very informative!!

lemaiseh
Guest
lemaiseh

Shma Yisroel H Elokeinu H Echod!!!!!!
That’s the ONLY thing we MUST believe. I doesn’t matter who Moshiach is. Let him just come.
Let’s stop with the nonsense.

dear 35,
Guest
dear 35,

in answer to your question regarding why shouldn’t the previous generations be moshiach if he can be from the dead. #1 in the sefer sdei chemed he writes (in two separeate places ) a) that in every generation there is the moshiach of that generation who , if G-d decides to bring the geula in that genaration, he will be the one. and b) moshiach can come from the dead. so we see that although he can come from the dead, he must be from that “generation” (as it says by shimshon that he ruled for 40 years even though… Read more »

Mohiliver
Guest
Mohiliver

No.59You are quite correct.I clearly remember in the years before the Histalkus that the party line was that Moshiach was alive-a person like everyone else kimvuar be Rambam.After 3Tamuz “damage control”swung into action and came up with the “moshiach from the dead” solution.These arguments were adopted to keep the faithful from “losing their religion.”I clearly remember Rabbi S.M.M.B. in the Jewish Press saying Moshiach is a living person and no one should be surprised that he is a living person.At least admit that this is an “after the fact” argument used as a last resort to keep up the morale… Read more »

to #77
Guest
to #77

The point wasn’t ‘fox’ rather their slogan fair and balanced,
And either way, the reason why so many think that fox is biased towards republicans, is BC the other networks (ABC, CNN,msnbc,) are a thousand times more biased to the left, making a more balanced fox automatically leaning to the right, but from the major news networks fox is the most balanced

to 31, 35, 37, 48, 59, 74, 76 by YBENNISH
Guest
to 31, 35, 37, 48, 59, 74, 76 by YBENNISH

31, how does Messianic mean missionary? 35, because the rebbe mh’m is the leader of our generation, and we are the first generation of geulah, if moshiach would have come in the times of bal shem tov, then the besh’t would be moshiach 37, the ignorance and misguidedness and lack of interest in hiskashrus here is really appaling. it is really a very simple process which comes to the conclusion that the rebbe is moshiach, A he is the nossi hador and B the nossi hador is moshiach shebedor C since this dor is the dor of moshiach, then the… Read more »

84 should read 88!!
Guest
84 should read 88!!

=)

GOOD SHABBOS!

Reb Yoel Kahan's Opinion
Guest
Reb Yoel Kahan's Opinion

Mohiliver
Reb Yoel neversaid To-isi on his belief that the Rebbe is Moshiach after 3 Tammuz. He only said To-isi on the part of saying that 3 Tammuz could never happen. See Reb Yoel’s heora 10 pages on this where he clearly admonishes (with great pain as is evident from his words) those chassidim who do not believe the Rebbe could be Moshiach after 3 Tammuz.

to 85
Guest
to 85

i know many levi k, were u the one that i threw in the mikvah?

The Rebbe's own words are that THIS NASI HADOR will NOT HAVE HEFSEK CHAIM, aka death (Sicho on Even Hashesiya)
Guest
The Rebbe's own words are that THIS NASI HADOR will NOT HAVE HEFSEK CHAIM, aka death (Sicho on Even Hashesiya)

reminiscent of Moshe Rabbeinu, where the Satan made it the view appear as if Moishe Died!! but it was a test of Emuna Iam willing to believe the Rebbe that somehow He is not Dead even though it looked like a regular dead (not sleeping or comatose) body! There is no clear DEFINITION of exactly what is meant by the stage of “Nichseh” so i choose to believe that rather than literal death, the Rebbe’s words are true, (that he will have uninterrupted chaim nitzchiim) & that he is erely in a state of “Nichseh” as predicted about moshiach!! how… Read more »

Reb Yoel Kahan actually said
Guest
Reb Yoel Kahan actually said

To-isi re his assertion that 3 could never happen,

but never did he say To-isi re his view that the Rebbe is still Moshiach after 3 Tammuz

its quit common for people to misrepresent Rabbi Schochet or Rabbi Kahan,

one on one they are full believers!!

To 76
Guest
To 76

circular reasoning?

emotional not rational or logical?

so far the sources & intelligent arguments are on the side of the Pro Moshiasts

you are soo far the one seeming unable to coherently refute (in a rational supported way) your “emotional” resistance

perhaps its difficult to accept that your Rabbi’s pooled the wool over your eyes for soo long, treating you like an unsophisticated child who needs to be protected from the complexity & subtlety of the TRUTH

my dear friend, everytime you name call instead of providing a head on contrary argument you are guilty of the exact accusation you levied!

gut shabbos!

reply to number 50
Guest
reply to number 50

do u believe every word the Rebbe said is 100% true?

If YES then continue;
As chassidim of the Rebbe we beleive his every ord to be true no matter how many people will say otherwise.
Hence, when the Rebbe says ‘we are the last generation of exile,and the first generation of the redemption” i believe (KNOW , which is much more than belief) that his is true. As the Rebbe said that we should publicize that we have a prophet in our generation (Shoftim 5751 edited sicha), and a prophet doesn’t give us false hopes or tell us lies G-D forbid.

Incredible
Guest
Incredible

The amount of damage that the Messianics brought upon the Chabad.

We don't need to look so far
Guest
We don't need to look so far

Last week was shoftim. Sefer Hashichos year 51 book 2 parshas shoftim the rebbe discuss nevuah.
One of the points he stated was that the words of the rebbe are not even his own words but hashem.
Commentaries on chumash have also stated that when one doubts a nasi (once we’ve established that he is true) it’s like doubting hashem himself

To: 84 In gemara sanhedrin Moshiach can even be from those who passed on
Guest
To: 84 In gemara sanhedrin Moshiach can even be from those who passed on

im glad your starting to reffer to sources! your on the right track, keep it up! this is the path to clarity & truth! the sources are replete with supportive statements allowing the Rebbe to be Moshiach & thus for his sichos to be taken literally! ….. especially the sicha of “Ehven-Hashesiya” which explicitly negates the possibility of Gimmul Tamuz, being Death, we’r left with the “appearance” of death, but if you trust the Rebbe’s words, its just THAT! ONLY “appearance” aka Hidden or “Nichsa” as predicted about Moshiach, & as was the case in the Midbar! Moshe was hidden… Read more »

to 102 "Machlokis" not Emuna = Damage!!
Guest
to 102 "Machlokis" not Emuna = Damage!!

Actually, i know many shluchim who educated their baalei batim BeOfen Hamiskabel!!

In Fact, the actual Damage is when Shluchim vilify the truth rather than smartly educate people to the Torah sources!!

when you mislead yor baaleh batim, & play games with them & pretend there’s a “Machlokis” in chabad!! THAT (machlokis) causes damage!

Why are the Anti’s not as vocal re the Far more damaging & embarrassing chilul shem chabad visavi Blatant disregard for the Rebbe re Tznius!!
(if they care soo much about chabad’s rep with the outside world)

to 84
Guest
to 84

maybe no group ever believed that their rebbe was moshiach after he died, but rambam clearly states that moshiach can be from living or dead. so that can also be one’s rebbe, You can’t argue with rambam whether or not it happened yet. He has not been wrong so far.

What A Chiddush
Guest
What A Chiddush

Boruch hashem I was Zoche to find an amazing Chiddush on Collive, that the Nevuah of the Rebbe MhM isn’t Nogea since we were not zoche!

To # 36 and # 78 for a pilpul it might be very nice but to educate a generation based on a pilpul is unacceptable
Guest
To # 36 and # 78 for a pilpul it might be very nice but to educate a generation based on a pilpul is unacceptable

1)That is a nice pilpul. 2)And if your pilpul makes YOU feel good and is the way YOU strengthen YOUR hiskashrus YOU are entiteled to your hergashim. 3)But to educate a young generation on Your pilpulim and hergashim is not what the rebbe would want. 4)my melamdim, roshehi yeshivah, and mashpiim, in Tomchei Temimim did not educate me based on pilpulim and hergashim 5) I wouldn’t want my children to be expossed to yesodos of Emunah Chassidus and Hiskashrus that are based on an individuals pilpulim 6) The REBBE clearly felt that Zehusoi Shel Moshiach was not (and therfore is… Read more »

To #108
Guest
To #108

Calling statements from the Rebbeh “Pilpul”
does not discredit or invalidate them!

let me highlight the Reeb’s words for you here:

1) The Rebbe said that when he says “Rebbe Der Shver Nasi DoreinNu” he includes himself!!

2) This generation is the last of Galus!! (no pilpul)

3) This Nasi Hador will have uninterupted chaiyim nitzchiyim! (Parshas Shoftim Nun Alef!)

4) Nasi hador = Moshiach!!
…..

Gut shabbos!

Los Angeles
Guest
Los Angeles

#36 summed it up beautifully. That’s how it is in L.A. and b”h we don’t have machlokes about this. As long as there is a nessinas mokom or moreh heter al pi halocha for a belief, how can you condemn a yid to apikorsus?! Whether or not to publicize it is a separate issue, but machlokes is much worse. Moshiach Now!

To: #108, ill respectfully address each of your points 1 by 1,
Guest
To: #108, ill respectfully address each of your points 1 by 1,

you wrote: “for a pilpul it might be very nice but to educate a generation based on a pilpul is unacceptable” My response, I’m ok with pilpul, thats an age old “JEWISH” method-tradition to teach academically inclined students, although pilpul works for some minds, i agree with you that the younger generation should learn the “sichos” directly (not via my “pilpul” online. ============================== You wrote: “1)That is a nice pilpul” My response: Thank you! i’ll just add, “nice & relevant” =) ============================================ You wrote: “2)And if your pilpul makes YOU feel good and is the way YOU strengthen YOUR hiskashrus… Read more »

to #109 what is your definition of a pilpul?
Guest
to #109 what is your definition of a pilpul?

1) If you can show me a sicha with a 1) 2) 3) 4) like in your comment then it would be a befeirushe Sicha.

2) Otherwise its “YOUR OWN PILPUL” !!!

Good Shabbos!

To 74
Guest
To 74

Idiot!!!

The Rebbe encompasses all the previous Rabbeim! The Rebbe clearly stated that!!! So when he spoke about the Frierdike Rebbe, he was alluding to himself. (this is all common knowledge – just apparently not for Amaratzim like you!)

shluchim should read #105
Guest
shluchim should read #105

The velt can handle “Religious ideas like Mila” bec there’s unanimity, if all Lubavitchers spoke with one voice, if all Anti’s were sreight forward & frank about Tora’s allowance for this belief if all the shluchim heeded the Rebbe’s plea to educate the public in inyanei geula not only would this belief not cause chilul lubavitch the opposite it would prevent all the chilul cause by the fictional “machlokis then all of mainstream lubavitch would be able to “marginalize” the noisy .01% there are may shluchim (like Head Shliach R Rivkin in New Orleans) who’ve heeded the Rebbe’s call to… Read more »

WHO CARES
Guest
WHO CARES

why is it hurting him so much that sone people live with positive hope and faith? Who cares who Moshiach is as long as he comes. If we would all INCLUDING THIS character would just live and let live Moshiach would come already.If we would sinply look at each other as fellow human beings and forget about “is he a mashichist or an anti” and therefore am I allowed to have any connection with him/her or not. This book therefore borders on the ridiculous because all it can do is create more machlokos. and if that’s what it does then… Read more »

The Rebbe's Bakasha
Guest
The Rebbe's Bakasha

Please learn this!

The Rebbe begged & even handed it out personally for hours on end to get people to learn this!

http://www.torah4blind.org/hebrew/dm48a.pdf

lol
Guest
lol

lol,People here don’y know how to learn a line in gemoro,but ,of course they know the secrets of the Torah,who is moshiach and I proof you… lol
Many people here are like conditioning their Rebbe as being their Rebbe only if he is Moshiach
OK you are Moshiach’s chossid
The REbbe is my Rebbe even he is not Moshiach

Those who want ENGLISH!!!
Guest
Those who want ENGLISH!!!

read the chasidic heritage series Sefer called “Staying the course”…… (by kehos)….
all questions will be anmswered!

Rabbi Levi Yitzchok M'berditchov
Guest
Rabbi Levi Yitzchok M'berditchov

Eibeshter! Look how much your children seek evidence and await his coming…..Bring him on PLEASE!!!!!

learn about moshiach
Guest
learn about moshiach

from london we all need to learn inyona geulo umeshiach first

Meshichistim are not in the Daled Amos of Halacha
Guest
Meshichistim are not in the Daled Amos of Halacha

“Their conclusion and interpretation is not consistent with the approach of halacha… thus creating an image that distances Jews from Chabad Chassidus.”

Finally
Guest
Finally

Does anyone know when it will be printed in English?

118
Guest
118

118 your are the best comment so far. 107- a Nevuah can only be be nullified if it’s a nevuah for something negative. A Nevuah for something positive is always fullfilled even if C’v we are not zoche.

to 117
Guest
to 117

exactly. And as a chassid of the Rebbe, our Rebbe has taught us in mamarim and sichos what a rebbe, nasi and redeemer is. Education is the only way. Lets go back to the sichos, all of them.

121
Guest
121

Reb Yoel Kahan Knows Halacha!!

His view is clear

Halacha allows this belief, & Sichos (nun alef nun beis) Mandate this belief!

careful before you make blanket accusations on 1000s of Rbbonim Shluchim & Chasidim who are all very learned!!
(some Rabbi’s may only be comfortable sharing their views in private, due to “corporate” policy)

Pattern!
Guest
Pattern!

Meshiachistim know sichos Nun alef nun beis

Apponants…. well

#26 write an OP-Ed please!
Guest
#26 write an OP-Ed please!

summed up well!

Thank you for taking the time to show the Emes in a succinct way for those

Very Amazing
Guest
Very Amazing

BS”D
I am happy Chabad is progressing for the better!

SSSSSTTTTTTOOOOOPPPPP!!!!
Guest
SSSSSTTTTTTOOOOOPPPPP!!!!

THIS IS NOT HOW WE BRING MOSHIACH! AND WE CAN AAAAAALLLLLLLLL AGREE THAT WE NEED MOSHIACH!

there is only one way for peace
Guest
there is only one way for peace

And that is for both the wills to be seen in public and then everyone will REALLY know what the rebbe wanted and be done with all the cloak and dagger stuff thats going on now.

finally!!
Guest
finally!!

Go Rabbi Sofer for being the mouth of the Rebbe on this issue! All faithful Shluchim Rabbonim anash and bochurim thank you for taking a stance and voicing the Rebbes belief and teachings!!

Two Extremes
Guest
Two Extremes

Rabbi Sholom Dovber Wolpo is a highly intelligent and learned man who reaches the wrong conclusion at one end of the spectrum. At least he is very involved in shleimus haaretz, although his methods and views are on the extreme side where that is concerned. Rabbi Yechezkel Sofer is no less intelligent, no less learned, and no less out on an extreme, but his extreme is the opposite of Rav Wolpo’s. Both rabbonim produce books and articles that make for interesting reading, but both are too extreme, and their polemics are best ignored as far as practical advice is concerned.… Read more »

132
Guest
132

the Rebbe endorsed his Sefer to be published & printed, after years of waiting!

One Man
Guest
One Man

This book is one man’s opinion. Something that anyone can intellectually formulate if they study original works, But most people don’t or can’t study themselves and take to just following other people’s opinions (and then heatedly argue about who/what is “right:”)

Doesn’t mater anyway.

The world turns regardless of anyone’s beliefs. Though many believe they make the world turn.

Lais man de palig!!
Guest
Lais man de palig!!

Lais man dipalig that the Rebbe clearly told us to be MOISIF
in Limud Hatorah and Hiddur Mitzva and Gemilus chasadim.
The Rebbe also wrote shortly before chaf zayin Adar that
“Ain mitzva klal Laydah mi hu Melech Hamashiach”
Lets do what the Rebbe clearly want from us’; Increase in Torah Avoda Ugemilas Chasadim!

Moshiach Now!!!!

nafka mina
Guest
nafka mina

if belief in false messiahs prevents the true one from coming , then this all makes a difference .
if non lubavitchers have to convert to this [to-them] christian belief to bring mashiach, than he can never come…..

Eilu Vo'eilu Divrei Eloikim Chayim
Guest
Eilu Vo'eilu Divrei Eloikim Chayim

Sholoim uVrochoh, With regard to the subject of differing opinions amongst Chassidim: Oiheiv Shaloim veRoideif Shaloim The first approach to a subject with such broad distinctions is: Can everyone be even mostly right? Yes, they can. As a preface, there is an allowance according to established Halachic authorities for someone to carry a position that the Rebbe is Moshiach. This does not necessarily bring us to conclude that everyone must. There may also be established Halachic authorities that preclude the possiblity for the Rebbe to be Moshiach. This does not necessarily mean that no one can carry the position that… Read more »

Not A Fanatic
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Not A Fanatic

I’m not a fanatic on either side, just trying to survive in the jungle of Crown Heights and live the best I can as the Rebbe taught. However only a few crazies can be criticized; most of those who hold that Rebbe being Mosiach base this on Sichos and Maamarim of the Rabbeim. The problem is that the ANTIS LUMP THE CRAZIES IN WITH THE NORMAL people which lets them negate the entire Moshiach concept as the Rebbe taught. This in my opinion is DECEPTIVE and WRONG.

yechi hamelech!
Guest
yechi hamelech!

i don’t understand?! They sang yechi in front of the rebbe and he nodded in agreement what more does one need? this is good enough proof! and why do Lubavitchers want to make the rebbe seem less great by saying hes not moshiach? the rebbe wrote in a letter though, its better to have ahavas yisrael then to decide who moshiach is. so even if one believes and the the other doesn’t believe , we should still love each other because we are Jews and not only Jews but chassidim! moshiach now!

A Shliach in Australia
Guest
A Shliach in Australia

It’s about time we deal ith this issue.
BTW according to Rashi on Sanhedrin Moshiach has to be an alive person (just he will be like Doniel ish chanudos). Meshichistin are ame hooretz – the only time they open te above sefotrim is to quote small excerpts – like missionaries.
Since when we start constructing new halochos based on Midroshim? Based on the Rambam’s advicein Iggeres Hateimon we should lock these people up for a short time, so the velt will see that we consider them wrong.

Nochum of Chernobyl
Guest
Nochum of Chernobyl

See the Sefer called Baal Shem Tov Al HaTorah (Cheilek Aleph, Hakdamah, Ois 23) regarding Rabbi Nochum of Chernobyl, that announced that the Baal Shem Tov was Moshiach, even after his passing.
Apparently this author must think Reb Nochum is an ignorant fanatic that doesn’t know Halacha! Put your mockery aside and see what the Torah says; it doesn’t matter if it makes you feel uncomfortable or you think it resembles other religions. The Truth is the Truth.

sign up soldiers
Guest
sign up soldiers

every sunday morning 1000’s of IDF soldiers gather in Beer Sheba for transit. Once a bochur went and signed up 600 for a letter in a sefer torah cllali. Instead of polemics, get your feet dirty and DO something to bring Moshicah.

>>>>>>>> Opinion of a Non-Lubavitcher <<<<<<<<<
Guest
>>>>>>>> Opinion of a Non-Lubavitcher <<<<<<<<<

I think the Rebbe Tz”l was way ahead of anyone other Gedoilim of his time. Whilst other Rebbes and Rabbonim were (legitimately) busy rebuilding their dynasties from the ashes of the holocaust, the Rebbe was looking at the larger picture of worldwide Jewry. Whilst other leaders were cultivating homogeneous communities, the Rebbe was battling the winds of larger 20th Century ideological schools on their behalf. The Rebbe bravely and cleverly took on modern science, technology, modern Zionism, various cultures and religious beliefs by shining the light of Yiddishkeit and showing us the way through the darkness. There is no doubt… Read more »

Sholom Dovber
Guest
Sholom Dovber

This internal debate with continue until Moshiach comes.
The concept of infallibility is at the root of this Dilemma

Mohiliver
Guest
Mohiliver

Reb Yoel held droshos in 770 for many months when the Rebbe was sick. He said over and over that it was impossible that the Rebbe would not recover.Thousands of people heard it all over the world via hook-ups and the like. If you are correct that the “toisi” refers to his basic premise that the Rebbe would have to recover and not to the messianism then I regrettfully cannot call what he did an act of courage. It is rather an after the fact “arrangement”where people would not lose faith in the entire messianic enterprise as a result of… Read more »

Perspective
Guest
Perspective

Will this Rabbi be willing to sign a statement that the Rebbe can not be Moshiach under any circumstances?

There are many, many sources in Torah, which contemplate the possibility that either, Moshiach will come from the formerly living, or that Moshaich will be secreted ( appear to have passed) but in reality is alive.
One example would be the Rabbenu Bechaya’s explanation of Yaakov Lo Mes, meaning that as Yisroel, al pi kabbalah, he is alive in a gossamer physical body, and as Yaakov, he rests in Chevron. There are many other sources and ain kan hamoku, etc.

Perspective (2) "goodness & kindness"
Guest
Perspective (2) "goodness & kindness"

According to our drear Rebbe’s last (most recent) sicha a Key tool for hatening the Geula Sleima is Veohavta Lereiacha KaMocha!! this does not mean we all need to agree on everything or share the same views! true Fellowship is demonstrated Davka when we have (passionate) differing views yet dont allow our conflicting views to diminish the Ahavas Chinum (unconditional love) that the Rebbe lived & Taught us to emulate!! the second KEY to hasten the complete Geula (as emphasized numerous times by our Rebbe is to “Open-our-eyes” (intellectual eyes) to see how the world arround us is much already… Read more »

#147
Guest
#147

Thank you!

Pity..
Guest
Pity..

BH Lubavitch is a rich and special Chassidus. Very very sad how the meshichists have damaged and tarnashed the amazing work and achievements of Chabad. The fact that ALL the Chareidi world/ Rabboniim/ Gedolim outside of Lubavitch are vehemently against this moshichist concept must raise eyebrows and question its credibility. We should shift our focus on brining Moshiach closer by learning Torah and doing acts of kindness irrespective on who Moshiach is. Moshiach Now!

To 139 u r mostly correct
Guest
To 139 u r mostly correct

Most of the frum world (even very learned rabbis who are known to be experts in other more routine domains of Halacha) are not familiure with key mekoros re the process of hisgalus Many don’t know that moshiach will be in a state of concealment (not death) which is meant to apear as death but in reality is a test of Emuna bDivrei Moshe to rectify the first geula when most of klal yisroel accepted the appearance of death as literal Chazal teach that this period will be similar to Moshe when he first announced the “pakod pokadeti” most of… Read more »

the future generations
Guest
the future generations

as of now the children of lubavitch are confused regarding diffrences between g-d and the rebbe ,can we dare to imagine what the future will look like in chabad ,in ancient times when ideas developed and spread at a slow pace it took a relatively short period for yoshke to become a “g-d” from a so called prophet ,can we imagine how much faster it will take for the rebbe to become a g-d ,if youb doubt my idea please speak to the very young lubavitcher talmidim,halevei that i am wrong

151
Guest
151

I have yet to find someone who thinks of the Rebbe as G-d c’v I know quite a few meshechists and even the extreme one do not think he is g-d.

The best comment on the best (most responsible & classi) chabad-news website
Guest
The best comment on the best (most responsible & classi) chabad-news website

The best comment in this entire thought provoking forum is 150
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Well written
& Uses Torah as it’s frame of refference

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151 yoshkeh wasn't a rebbe he did Kishuf
Guest
151 yoshkeh wasn't a rebbe he did Kishuf

He wasn’t a Nasi hador! Zohar never said of him shchina medaberes mitoch grono! We all have a chelek eloka mimaal mamush!! By a rebbe it’s revealed! (ie all his actions are consistent with god’s wil) A rebbe has no personal ego or personal agendas outside of god’s will That’s why the sicha & maamorim describe a rebbe as a conduit “merkava” to god’s will Aka “atzmus umehus melubash beguf” That’s why torah calls Moshe rabbeinu ” ish Elohim” He isn’t god ch”v yet he is god’s mouth peace to reveal god’s word to his people To chasidim who regularly… Read more »

elliot770
Guest
elliot770

I have unfortunatley experienced on numerous ocasions talking to frum jews who have been turned off tochasidus . It boggles the mind the selfish intrests of some mashicistim who persist in making a chilul lubavitch because it makes them feel good to believe their shita. Otherwise they cant cope with the reality of the histalkus. It isnt enough the sichos and mamarim the Rebbe Zl left us. What selfishness its a feel good fantasy with devestating results.The same goes for many non frum jews who view chabad as a cult because of them. Just take a ride on the highway… Read more »

did the rebbe not say the following:
Guest
did the rebbe not say the following:

1 – as a prophet – shoftim 5751
2 – kuntres beis rabbinu shebbovel
3 – moshiach started to have an affect on this world – mishpotim 5752.
4 – etc.
point is: the meshichiten, ONLY listen to the rebbe’s holy words LITERATELY.

what would you do, as a chossid?

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