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Monday, 16 Elul, 5779
  |  September 16, 2019

My Son’s Double-Edged Shlichus

From the COLlive inbox: A mother writes what happened to her son and his friend after working for a Shliach on campus. Full Story

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I was on Shlichus
Guest
I was on Shlichus

I am a girl , I was hoping going on Shlichus was a holy shlichus , till I got there . The Shliach tells my parents ” we are not your Daughter Mashpia , We dont cater to their spiritual needs . The Job I was given, is to teach Children , Goyim and Yidden alike . Food to eat was not cared for properly , the Group of 4 girls suppose to share 100.00 a week . The girls would hang out in Shopping malls till the wee hours at night (way past 11:00 PM) Dear Parents ! Dont… Read more »

I agree
Guest
I agree

My son went to work for a shaliach running a day camp, and was shocked to find out that he was supposed to supervise mixed swimming – the shaliach said the “sin was on him” so my son told him, good, then you can supervise them, because I won’t.
Don’t think just because there is a “shaliach” or “Chabad House” involved that the situation will be…should I say, hareidi? Chabadlite is everywhere today.

A Shlucha on campus
Guest
A Shlucha on campus

I couldn’t agree more. I’d never put a bochur or a girl in the situation. Way too tough. Only marrieds couples should be a prescence on campus. Short stays like purim and pesach are one thing. But never longer than a yom tov. Thanks for bring it up.

So kind of you
Guest
So kind of you

to bring this to the attention of everyone now!

It makes no sense to me whatsoever to have Frum and/or Chassidush Bochurim hanging around campus’s even with the Mivtzoim intention!!

Let’s hope for change!

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

Ur right on what u said. And that’s why if ur going to go to college or on campus shluchas while single u need to be well grounded so u shouldn’t get affected or have temptations.

from a mother
Guest
from a mother

Well said
your child is not the shliachs priority

As clear as day
Guest
As clear as day

What you are saying is as clear as day. Bochrim don’t belong in taruvos settings. and “news flash” Young, even married men/rabbis don’t belong teaching in seminary. We know that there are other more appropriate opportunities for both.

"shlichus"
Guest
"shlichus"

The Rebbe used to send bochurim on shlichus to study in a yeshiva out of town.
Older bochurim go on a 3 week shlichus in the summer.
Then the Israelis came around who were sent to kvutzah a year younger than their peers would go on yeshiva shlichus. They had nowhere to go after that so they came up with “shlichut” which means you can be out of a yeshiva framework on some distant hole.
This is a post gimmel tamuz development and has nothing to do with representing the Rebbe which is what shlichus essentially is.

Bochur.
Guest
Bochur.

Thank you for this article. It is a hundred percent true, that’s not getting into the double edged way unfortunately too many shluchim treat the bochurim which come to work for them .

agree
Guest
agree

As a shliach myself i couldn’t agree with u more

So happy you wrote this
Guest
So happy you wrote this

Speaking from experience, you cannot regain a sensitivity towards things. At least not without really hard work. Pls think before choosing a shlichus as a single girl, however dynamic and amazing the shluchim are- they’re not single. And they don’t really remember how important it is all the time…

concerned parent
Guest
concerned parent

100%! definitely agree that as parents we have to look out for our kids and shluchim need to be attentive to this.

Shluchim's responsibility
Guest
Shluchim's responsibility

Responsible campus shluchim ,and I know many of them, are very aware of the challenges a bochur or girl may face on campus. Consequently they do not casually have the young people come. When they do invite them or have merkoz shlichus bochorim they spend much time and effort to guide and supervise these well meaning sincere young people who don’t always realize the challenges they may face on campus

So True
Guest
So True

Thank you for writing!

This do NOT apply in the summer
Guest
This do NOT apply in the summer

Campus have off during the summer the mother speak for a long term in general

girls supervising teenage boys a year or 2 younger than them
Guest
girls supervising teenage boys a year or 2 younger than them

Same problem. Maybe worse. Yet many shluchim have girls running such programs

Vague
Guest
Vague

It is really unclear what happened. Is this an over-reaction? Its hard to say because it is unclear what happened. Is this an appropriate response? Its hard to say because it is unclear what happened.

Can of worms
Guest
Can of worms

I think this is a big can of worms subject. Fact is it happens all over in ANY chabad house. Whether working for a summer, a year, a shabbos or visiting your cousins chabad house, your son or daughter will be in a very non crown heights environment. Fact is that shluchim in many cases are hiring or hosting people to work or volunteer, your child is not entering a controlled environment of a program. I’m not disagreeing with your article just pointing out that it pretty much just the way it is and probably will always be.

campus = pritzus
Guest
campus = pritzus

As a shliach on a campus I am aware of this fact: campus = pritzus, I only bring bochurim for short stints because I cannot take achryayus to have them develop a strong yachas with my students ON campus.

I disagree
Guest
I disagree

I completely disagree. I think it’s important and good for our young women and men to see that life isn’t as sterile and black and white as their little yeshiva lives.

totally agree
Guest
totally agree

Merkos Shlichus in the resort and beach locations aren’t so great for the Neshama either (I’ have heard from Bochurim who have been).

Thank you for writing. IYH something should change.

Anne of Green Gables
Guest
Anne of Green Gables

“It’s all very well to say resist temptation, but it’s ever so much easier to resist it if you can’t get the key”

100% accurate
Guest
100% accurate

On pesach merkos shlichus, the Shiliach on our way running the minyan decided to make a sudden unanticipated stop at the groceries (not because he couldn’t go later, rather for convenience), we ended up missing borchu, then 10 minutes into Davening he told me to please “hurry up there’s a lot of responsibilities to do”, I told him straight forward – I’m going to daven however long it takes.

dear # 1
Guest
dear # 1

Don’t use your PERSONAL experience to say “Don’t be fooled that your precious daughters are in a safe environment,under the label “Shlichus ” they are not ! ”

Because from my experience I would say the opposite.

Your right, some shluchim don’t pay any attention to there spiritual needs, but there are far more that do.

Your making as if every boy or girl that go on shlichus, just become more chilled. That’s absurd.

Hoping
Guest
Hoping

Dearest Rabbi Kotlarsky and his dedicated staff have received or/and are aware of this issue

Parents be warned!
Guest
Parents be warned!

Well said. Parents beware. I had some fine children that were negatively affected in summer camp and then on shlichus and it caused a real downfall in their yiddishkeit, I am sad to say. Most teens are not equipped to remain strong.

"PARADOX"
Guest
"PARADOX"

Parents exert much effort to have a son attend an out-of town Yeshivah, and extend themselves financially. The reasoning is to follow the dictum “והם לא ידעו דרכי”- אין דער היים קען מיר נישט אויסלערנין די ריכטיגע דרכים”
To then go and expose the bachur to negative outside influence is problematic

Can you post the guidelines the Rabbonim set up?
Guest
Can you post the guidelines the Rabbonim set up?

No girl counsellor should be supervising MIXED swimming, be counsellors over boys age 9…

Unfortunately many girls are stuck in real Halachic issues, and end up being over things for no reason.

please do NOT blame Shlichus
Guest
please do NOT blame Shlichus

The concept of sending boys to campus for a YT was also unheard-of till the Rebbe. Your son should have a shiur chassidus and learn Rambam. The Shlichus on campus taught NO MORE then he has on his phone in his holy house in Monsey or where ever.

Chutzpah
Guest
Chutzpah

What chutzpah for a shliach to put a bochur in the “line of fire”haipech haTorah and proclaim “it’s on my shoulders”
I would disqualify this person from his shlichus!

18 yr olds with no driving experience
Guest
18 yr olds with no driving experience

shluchim should not allow 18 yr old girls or boys
Drive others to and from their places
The driving is dangerous enough for grown ups
Young teens do not have enough road experience to drive children or others , I was 20 yrs old , the shliach had me drive to Toronto to pick up 25 campers and bring them to camp, I had very little road experience this was a big mistake for a shliach to put in danger 25 campers , do not let your precious children get a ride with anyone under 25

Think about it
Guest
Think about it

Now imagine the nissayon of shluchims kids who go through this every day.

married shluchim need to b careful too
Guest
married shluchim need to b careful too

Especially with facebook where extremely inappropriate pics can be posted of the students or people they know

Guidelines
Guest
Guidelines

in our day and age there should be set guidelines & rules set by the Shluchim headquarters as what type of activities can be done by unmarried boys & girls They should be made known to both Shluchim and parents

The sultan of honesty
Guest
The sultan of honesty

It is not my tendency to point out the obvious. But… It seems as though your son has had his first glimpse of life out side of crown heights (or which ever community you are from). It would have happened eventually anyways. It’s called life and people encounter things some good and some bad. You as a mother are as is normal worried that he might encounter something against what we believe and and make a devastating decision for the wrong. But don’t think for a second that the way this endeavor has effected him is only because of the… Read more »

we need to get back on track
Guest
we need to get back on track

my friend recently went on shlichus and she told me she was sooo surprised to see how the shluchim she worked for were conducting their lives..
It got to the point that she jokingly wondered if she was supposed to do shlichus on them. She eventually left since it became to uncomfortable for her.

CALLOUS
Guest
CALLOUS

To say ‘it is on my shoulders’ that you do something not beseider is callous.

A shliach
Guest
A shliach

No bochhrim or single girls should be going on campus, at all.

To #36
Guest
To #36

Bravo!

To# 35
Guest
To# 35

I disagree,because the shluchim have to bear in mind “Lifnei iveir LO SITAIN MICHSHOIL”-PERIOD!!!
They MUST set their rules and standards al pi Halacha NO MATTER WHAT!-even if it inconveniences them.They could certainly overcome this laxity, for ‘ein lecho dovor ho’omeid bifnei ho’rotzoin’, as the the Rebbe wrote to me in my first (out of many)corrospondence(s back in the ‘chof”s(60’s).

soldiers go to the front line
Guest
soldiers go to the front line

AFTER IS TRAINED !!!!!

IF is before is shfichus Domim , and there is no need to say that before 3 tamuz no body went before marriage to a shlichus Job position for so long in the same place ( and if did happened was speciall people )

campus
Guest
campus

Welcome to Shloma Carlbach world

safety for counselors in day camp
Guest
safety for counselors in day camp

My sister and friends had to go by public transportation not through best neighberhoods. Directors have to take responsibility.

To #35
Guest
To #35

There is a huge difference between “seeing the world” and being directly with programs, interactions and discussions with the same people over and over- forging feelings and inappropriate friendships. Duh.

The sultan of honesty
Guest
The sultan of honesty

To# 40

I agree with you that sheluchim must behave in a responsible manner and i would also agree that allowing or requesting of a frum bocher to run an event on campus is irresponsible. But it is just as important to understand that persistently attempting to avoid any contact between reality and your child is abundantly similar to a alcoholic who continuously avoids confronting his pain and misfortunes through drinking.

Agree with #34
Guest
Agree with #34

#34 cuts through to the ikur, exactly.

#27 complete "am haratzus"
Guest
#27 complete "am haratzus"

The “makor” for learning out of town is from gear shabbos daf 9 amud 2 in tosfos at the bottom the gemara disccuses about releasing your belt before eating how that’s how they would do it in eretz Israel so asks tosfos why where they discussing the minhagim of eretz Israel why they should have been discussing the minhagim of bavel? answers tosfos that since the custom was to travel out of town to learn in for they would gain more then from being at home, so therefore in bavel they taught everything according to the minhagim of eretz yisroel… Read more »

Single bochurim
Guest
Single bochurim

I live afar on shlichus. One of our community members asked me about a particular bochur that was on shlichus whom she was quite close to at Y…. Today this bochur is not on the straight and narrow. The effect it must have had on him from what i understand was huge.
College/ University shlichus is NOT a place for a Lubavitcher bochur. Something MUST change.

innerperspective
Guest
innerperspective

I agree 100%- and its not just on campus- its many shichus’n involving the community, its many many summer day camps, its helping out a Shliach during his community Friday Night meals, etc. As a Bochur with pretty high standards, i can tell you first hand that I myself have been in many avoidable uncomfortable/ borderline un-tznius situations many times over the past few years, and I cringe when some of my peers try convincing themselves that some improper Mivtzoim experiences were really ok and fine. Unfortunately, some of the best directors running the best day camps don’t have an… Read more »

Israel shluchis
Guest
Israel shluchis

Many guys who go on shluchis in Israel, their parents think they are such tzadikkim but if they only know what really goes on!

Relatable but not always true..
Guest
Relatable but not always true..

Yes, of course campus will be the type of environment where negative influences lurk at every turn. Re camps and the like, I agree with the sentiments above about the roles of the counselors being appropriate for them and their Yiddishkeit. Speaking from my own experiences, I worked for a Chabad House for a summer, and it was the best summer I’ve yet to have. The shliach was very available to us, we had shiurim and farbrengens, and the day to day activities which we were responsible for in the capacity of working for the Chabad House didn’t adversely affect… Read more »

As a student...
Guest
As a student...

This mother is absolutly correct. Campus is not a place for a chassidishe person who is not married. It’s a very tough environment. Yes people should be exposed to people in the world and not live in a bubble but campus is too extreme. Mivtzoyim is enough exposure!

Mother
Guest
Mother

Oh, the stories I could tell! The experiences some of my kids on Shlichus (not to mention summers!) would make your hair curl.

Loving the comments...
Guest
Loving the comments...

And now for mine: I am a girl on shlichus now. My shlichus is very different than what most girls do, and is kinda similar to a campus (not exactly, but that’s what I’d compare it to). I agree with this article. BH I have my mashpia and family making sure I stay in the right place but I will not deny that there are definitely times when it’s tough and I get uncomfortable. I love my job, bH, but it is something to be aware of. I’m not saying not to get a job like mine, on the contrary,… Read more »

HELP
Guest
HELP

all this mother proved was that her excellent son has no personal inner strength. I always took pride in the fact that as a Lubavitcher I and my children had the inner strength and conviction to be able to go “out there” to bring others closer and yet know who I am representing. And B”H neither I nor any of my children were ever negatively affected. On the contrary, we became stronger. Perhaps her son should remain locked in one of those”excellent” yeshivas totally unexposed from the ( crazy) outside real world where he can sit and “shteig” in his… Read more »

the rebbe told
Guest
the rebbe told

reb david raskin that bochurim should not go for mivtzayim on campus!

There is a middle ground
Guest
There is a middle ground

The answer is not to curl up into ourselves and become insular. Perhaps there should be better screening and guidelines on both ends. Thousands of young bochurim and women have managed to help shluchim without being affected in the way described in some comments. Maybe it’s that I grew up on shlichus myself, but personally nothing ever ‘fazed me’ . It’s all about having strong roots and good chinuch holding you in your place.

La creme de la creme
Guest
La creme de la creme

It is surprising when eextremely chassidish shluchim take the”best”boys on merkaz shlichus in the summer and place them on a “beach”. Maybe the shluchim are oisgeton foon oilomhaze…..

so true
Guest
so true

everything this mother is saying is correct i couldnt agree with you more

Correct however...
Guest
Correct however...

There are shiluchim who are so careful about this issue that even when they have a boys and girls camp one doesn’t even know of the other because the shiluchim are on top of it!
That’s what camp I went to and it was a day camp for 2 months!

only good news
Guest
only good news

well writen
i wish you that your son will become a great shliach and take this experience to strenght his chassidishkait

Agree with 29
Guest
Agree with 29

On the flip side….. What about Shluchim who raise their kids in these “places” and the kids grow up thinking “I can’t wait to be in crown height where everyone is like me” and then they go to crown heights for high school and yeshiva and ALAS!!! “Not everyone IS like me”. And then the Shluchim parents who were moser nefesh all those years have to explain to their kids why the tznius and the achdus etc is so lacking! What should they say to them?? The writer has a point but how did her son survive crown heights all… Read more »

Positive Experience
Guest
Positive Experience

I B”H had a very positive experience on Shlichus. We had a weekly shiur and the shluchim were chassidishe examples. They took really good care of us. You need to do proper research as with anything. For me I grew and gained so much.

 #47 - " Am Aratzus" ?
Guest
#47 - " Am Aratzus" ?

Don’t be so serious and fast to judge. This was just a well known “vertel” regarding going out of town to learn. Next time either take a chill pill or write your name if you want to show off lomdus..

I didnt let my son go
Guest
I didnt let my son go

A few years ago my son was offered a position on campus and I told him it was a bad idea! As a woman of the world and with awareness of what goes on in universities, I knew the implications and CV”S damage that such a shlichus could do to a young mind. After reading this article, I am sooo happy I listened to my instincts!! Many people are clueless as to what goes on at college. Teenagers are finally free from parents and let loose, big time! Not good influences on a young bochurs mind! I have unfortunately seen… Read more »

Agree 100%
Guest
Agree 100%

A Bocher should never be involved in Campus Shlichus before married, I don’t really understand how can be a Bocher running a whole operation for students boys and girls and no one tries to help him to get out of there.

shlichus
Guest
shlichus

The Rebbe. I am told, did not sanction single chassidim to attend college. The environment now is even worse. If you grew up on shlichus you are protected because the Rebbe said he would protect you. You didn’t necessarily succeed because you are great and solid but because the Rebbe carried you on his shoulders. Being exposed to the world is one thing, immersing before marriage is another
I agree with this mother.

#33 I agree
Guest
#33 I agree

Being ‘friends’ with Chabad house or campus people could
Be very untznius re the types of pictures that go up

lmsw
Guest
lmsw

this is not about inner strength you dont put an obstacle before a blind person the shliach has a responsibility to watch over the shluchim he hires i had a terrible experience with a daughter now my children do not go unless i know the shliach is erlich and responsible himself

lifelight 2
Guest
lifelight 2

We are forbidden to put ourselves in a position of nisayon.

We say every morning in brochos: Lo l’yedai nisayon, v’Lo l’yedai bisayon!

UNMARRIED YOUNG PEOPLE DO NOT belong on college campuses for ANY reason. The Rebbe would never agree to shluchim or anyone else doing this for any period of time, and certainly not boys.

Going to read Megillah even ONE time is even risky.

Lo Sasuru Acharei l’vavechem, v’acharei eineihem.

One glance is all it takes for some…….

No better time for it
Guest
No better time for it

If at the age of 20+ a boy or a girl aren’t aware and prepare to deal with the real world out there, i doubt if they will be able to do it in older age. There is no better age to experience it then when your’e at that age and still full and strong with all of what you’ve learn’t.

Yeshivah Shlichus
Guest
Yeshivah Shlichus

Nevermind the summer. 80% of the bochurim’s Shlichus is a baby sitting service for the local Shliach….How on earth can these places take bochurim and not have a Rosh Yeshiva & Mashpia??????????????????????? That’s the massive leak in the boat that needs immediate attention.

#55 have some Kavod for those who learn
Guest
#55 have some Kavod for those who learn

Have some kavod foe those who will be your rav in ten years people who dedicate there lives to learning
why the derogatory “shtaig”
this shows more on how lubavitchers have NO kavod for Torah and those who learn it
like no respect for rabbis and teacher saying their first name and the like i have never heard lubavitchers calling the rav by rabbi all i hear is his last name
open up the hakdama for kuntres eitz chaim where the fridiker rebbe said we learn kavod for rabbnim and Torah from minhagim

my daughter had an excellent experience
Guest
my daughter had an excellent experience

It is our responsibility as parents to thoroughly research where we send our children….whether it is to school, friends, family, vacation and/or shlichus……no matter their age, boy or girl….my daughter had an excellent experience for a year on Shlichus in Colorado… they were Dugmah Chayos, and inspirational. I did my job too….even though she is old enough to go on shlichus…I kept a close eye on every aspect of her experience and watched as she grew in all areas in her life. I would do it again……Parents we need to be Parents!

#66
Guest
#66

Total agree with you

TO #55
Guest
TO #55

As a mother, I find the arrogant tone of your comment very cruel and lacking in Ahavas Yisroel. The winds are blowing and you have been very blessed to not have had children or grandchildren who have been tested AS OF YET. To mock this mother – who is obviously suffering – by stating that “her excellent son has no personal inner strength” just shows that you are lacking in personal inner empathy. As discussed here on COL recently, the halachos of Yichud were given to us by the One who created us & knows our weaknesses and struggles because… Read more »

Yes it's true
Guest
Yes it's true

The majority of Shluchim today approach this in the way it works best for them, because it is about their Shlichus. The spiritual welfare of the bochur or bochura is not a priority.

I see the light
Guest
I see the light

Thank you everyone for opening my eyes! It is certainly much better that rather than bochurim going on Merkos shlichus to resort towns they should instead be in crown heights for the summer–where the mode of dress is worse than the resorts towns. And certainly it is much better for a bochur to be “learning” in 770 I.e. Sleeping all day without anyone knowing where he is or what he’s doing than to chas veshalom be on shlichus as a bochur and actually do something constructive. Speaking as a bochur who spent over a year on campus there is something… Read more »

Please COL share this
Guest
Please COL share this

The answer to most the Issues being discussed here Maybe

Rebbe Rashab says in Mamamer Hacholtzu “Sinah Machmas Kinah ail lo Takonoh”Hatred out of jealousy cannot be fixed.

Please Do not take this opportunity to bash the Rebbe’s soldiers living a life one will never understand unless one has lived it themselves.

Wishing only good and simchas for all.

Bubby K
Guest
Bubby K

#55
Take your head out of the sand and stop fooling yourself! Would you give your 9 year old access to your car keys?

We daven every morning that the Ribbono shel Olam keep us away from nisyanos. The nisyonos that teenage bochurim are put into are way too strong for them.

A good parent protects his children.

To #55
Guest
To #55

If you only knew me. I have not sheltered my kids from the outside world, as I say in the article that running programs once in a while would not bother me. But to put a child in a situation where he is supposed to build relationships with teens his own age? Why don’t you read the article before you jump all over it. And what if i were running a sheltered home, all the better. However, we need to know the limitations of human young adults.

To # 70
Guest
To # 70

You could not have put it any better !!
A big yasher koach !

with the old breed
Guest
with the old breed

did your son learn at all during his time there? Our whole education system is broken. when the biggest sin is to send your child to a non Chabad school we are in trouble. It is not 1950 anymore and things can change.

This is sad.
Guest
This is sad.

We can’t hide our kids. They need to be armed with practical spiritual tools and real knowledge of the emes. There is nothing but Hash-m. The Besht’s father told him to “fear nothing but Hash-m himself…” and this is the foundation of chassidus. There is nothing but G-d, so fear nothing else. This whole thing is a list of everyone’s fears of their kids going out and becoming frei. If you don’t want you kids to frei out, the solution is not to hide them from the world. It’s impossible. Soone ror later they will be exposed, married or not.… Read more »

to #55
Guest
to #55

You are evidently unaware of what male hormones do when encountering real-life pritzus, more plentiful than any street (CH or elsewhere) and more real than the iphone, and more upfront than all, because that is who you are interfacing with throughout the day. And why would a good bochur have more inner strength than Bruria?

Just curious as to whether you know why halacha requires marriage at age 18? The singular permission for delaying is shteiging in Torah!

Just maybe the Chachomim knew human nature . . . and did not preach “inner strength.”

Comment to story in #2
Guest
Comment to story in #2

The shliach was quoted saying “the sin is on me”.So i am asking a rhetoric question:Can we ,by any stretch of our imagination point out to such a ‘so called’ shliach and declare:”Shluchoi shel odom kemoisoi”??!!–AVADEH NISHT !!!

Innerperspective
Guest
Innerperspective

For those that argue that keeping your kids away from the real world is harmful etc, I will tell you that in case you have never gone on mivtzoim or the like, without intentionally coming to it, you experience the real life- and hopefully will build a firewall against it. You don’t need to show your children or introduce them to the pritzus which goes on around them- they will see it themselves, and if they are seeing it when they are on the attack- doing outreach etc, they will learn how to deal with it. If they are walking… Read more »

How is Shlichus location different from crown heights
Guest
How is Shlichus location different from crown heights

Don’t be naive and suggest, that pritzuz issues are problematic ,when our children ,leave our neighborhood. Wake up and smell the coffee,it’s diabollicle right here, our children are just as easily exposed ,right on our own streets

Im a campus Shliach
Guest
Im a campus Shliach

I had my teen girl(s) do tabling Mivtzoim ON CAMPUS ONCE. AND THAT WAS THE LAST TIME!!!. #56 wrote The REBBE told R dovid Raskin that bachurim should not go on mivtsoim on campus. Finished. End of story,. to #84 I learn with my kids nigle and chsidus.. they BH know very well who they are etc…they r BH very good kids. but to put them in the lions den ? Clear from the Rebbe not to

To # 80
Guest
To # 80

Everything you mentioned is fine and dandy,but you must be on a very high plane of kedusha to conform with such elite standards.Please bear in mind what the Frierdiker Rebbe N”E wrote in Kovetz Michtovim in the back of Tehllim in regards to AVROHOM OVINU,and quoted Moshe Rabbeinu saying to the talmidim he taught :”you should know that “Gam guf kodosh bossor hu”!

#84 Best Comment of All
Guest
#84 Best Comment of All

My parents brought me up the way you wrote. I see the problem when “good” parents are themselves afraid of “all the world out there has to offer” (only narishkeit and grubkeit), and then of course their kids go exploring in filth…

my kids are campus shluchim
Guest
my kids are campus shluchim

They absolutely refuse to take Bochurim – even for a Shabbos off. They said it is not the environment for bochurim (or girls) to be. In fact, they wouldn’t even let my son, the shliach’s brother in law, come to stay.

#84
Guest
#84

very true

to #18
Guest
to #18

crown height environment?!?! u wanna live in your own little bubble forever?! and by the way, crown heights has its problems, too, bochrim and girls alike. need for explanation on that? I think its kinda clear. and when growing up on shlichus, you are constantly being reminded of who you are what you’re doing. you grow up aware, and don’t run in to these problems. Not because they are used to it, but because they know what to look out for, even the younger kids. it is NOT all Chabad houses doing this, though I do agree that some do… Read more »

The Elephant in the Room
Guest
The Elephant in the Room

Why are we not addressing the elephant in the room? The Rebbe – nishomoh klolis for all of klal Yisroel – sent Shluchim to help the unaffiliated. To facilitate sharing our royal heritage, to be mikabel ol malchus shmayim, to the tinokes shnishba that don’t stand a chance without the Shluchim. He did not appoint Shluchim to be mashpiim, dugma choyas, or moreh horah for chasidim. If we put a shliach on a pedastal, we have no one to blame but ourselves. They are on the frontlines focusing on their mission and shouldn’t have to worry about what kind of… Read more »

shluchim be mkarev the shluchim
Guest
shluchim be mkarev the shluchim

As my father ohv” prophetically would say 30 years ago “We are going to have to send shluchim to be mkarev the shluchim.”. We didn’t get it then. Nor did we like when he didn’t allow us to work in day camps. Woe was to anyone caught listening to a sicha without sitting and listening properly..

i went to a gan izzy
Guest
i went to a gan izzy

And there was a college student that tried to become our friend and my parents called the shliach 1. He threatented to send me home 2. He lied to my parents 3. If people call me and ask if they should go there I will tell them no even if u hear that last summer was crazy still call the girls that went there the summer before

95 should be the last comment.
Guest
95 should be the last comment.

95 says it all. That is all there is to know.
I agree 100%

shlichus
Guest
shlichus

The Rebbe. I am told, did not sanction single chassidim to attend college. The environment now is even worse. If you grew up on shlichus you are protected because the Rebbe said he would protect you. You didn’t necessarily succeed because you are great and solid but because the Rebbe carried you on his shoulders. Being exposed to the world is one thing, immersing before marriage is another
I agree with this mother.

similar problem
Guest
similar problem

I see a similar problem with all the youth coming into CH for Tishrei. Many are unsupervised and all kinds of things are going on that may not be desirable and less likely to happen while living at home. .

To the people reading
Guest
To the people reading

To those who have not spent time on a college campus, you all can have no opinion. You have no idea what is it like to try and swim against tye stream even if your a good swimmer. Being married is like having a boat and many men to row. Single means just that single. And so the readers who have spent time on a campus. You all agree. It’s not the right place.

Kol haKavod to Collive!
Guest
Kol haKavod to Collive!

Thank you for printing this very important letter from a very brave mother! She is not alone and you publishing her letter gives others with this same concern the courage to stand up and say/do what is right. Yasher Koach!!!

Your the mother
Guest
Your the mother

Everybody knows what goes on on Campus. Don’t be so in the ground. You should not have let him go. Don’t blame the Shluchim. Because all the garbage that goes on on the streets of Ch is exactly what the Rebbe wanted????

mixed camps!
Guest
mixed camps!

why is it okay to have both and girl counselors!?!? as much as they say its separate its NOT…..coming from experience

Moshiach Now
Guest
Moshiach Now

After all that was thoughtfully discussed and aired above,we need Moshiach now bepoiel mamosh.Then all will culminate with a happy ending!
Thank you COLLIVE for hosting such an important panel.

to #89
Guest
to #89

right on!! I couldn’t agree more with your comment!!
Putting an unmarried child in a lion’s den is irresponsible, sickening and dangerous!!!

I run a Camp
Guest
I run a Camp

to # 104. that’s why I hire girls and yungelite NOT BACHURIM although it costs much more

What's worth
Guest
What's worth

If they cannot handle the world, then what is worth all of what they learnt before in Chassidus? You think it’s all just to have knowledge, it’s for using it out!!

To #108
Guest
To #108

You probably forgot what we daven for in Birchois Hashacar:”V’al tvieini…lidei NISOYOIN”!.
You are forbidden to ‘railroad’ yourself to an unnecessary test….

Thank you "a mother"
Guest
Thank you "a mother"

A girl went to a frum Chassidish shliach as a counselor. She was supposed to go into the pool with the kids. She refused to go in because she was afraid of a dog that was roaming around the pool area. The shliach who shouldn’t have been at the pool if the girl counselors were supposed to be in there with the kids, pushed her in to teach her a lesson. And had a meltdown in front of the campers and counselors about her not doing what she should be doing.

What the Rebbe wrote very clearly
Guest
What the Rebbe wrote very clearly

In Likutei Sichos vol 15 page 44, the Rebbe added 4 paragraphs in his holy handwriting (that was not said at the Farbrengen). Following is a free English translation (of 3 paragraphs): “IN JUST ABOUT ALL [COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES] THE BOUNDARIES OF SHAME AND TZNIUS HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY BROKEN DOWN, SO MUCH SO THAT THEY LAUGH AND RIDICULE THOSE WHO TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT. ON THE CONTRARY (ACCORDING TO THEM), THE MORE VULGAR, THE BETTER, ETC. THE TERRIBLE SITUATION ON CAMPUSES, IN THE DORMITORIES, LEISURE AREAS, ETC, IS INFAMOUS, AND THERE IS NO NEED TO DISCUSS AT LENGTH SOMETHING SO… Read more »

lets look at another angle here
Guest
lets look at another angle here

as a shidduch coach i am concerned about the number of bochrim having way too many nisyonos AND getting married late because they are having such a blast on shlichus that they are in no hurry at all to settle down to a regular routine and more stringent life.and they are probably making comparisons that are to the detriment of married life. perhaps it should be a rule that only married couples go on shlichus , and that would help the bochrim stay on track in yeshiva and get married before becoming confused by the more exposed shlichus experiences

#112 agree with you
Guest
#112 agree with you

my nephew went on shluchus to an exotic island and the last pictures i’ve seen of him not sure his wearing tzitzis anymore:(

Mixed crowd at Crown Heights Shabbos tables
Guest
Mixed crowd at Crown Heights Shabbos tables

Why blame the shaliach or focus on campus shlichus?! The EXACT problem takes place in many homes in Crown Heights which invite boys and girls. It is worse because there are less differences between the boys and girls. They are interacting and intermingling in MANY homes EVERY shabbos! So cut out blaming shluchim and shlichus and look in a mirror in your own backyard!!

 Interesting halocho Hilchos Talmud Torah concerning bochurim
Guest
Interesting halocho Hilchos Talmud Torah concerning bochurim

The Alter Rebbe in Hilchos Talmud Torah chapter 1 says:
” One who isn’t married or his wife is in another city sould not be a melamed of small children because their mothers bring their children to school and his yetzer horah will be incited”.
Sound too machmir? Look it up and see for yourself. Then apply it here.

Merkos policy
Guest
Merkos policy

Above comments presume that parents have control over where there boys and girls want to go. The issue is that Merkos allows Shluchim to bring unmarried boys and girls against the Rebbe’s explicit instructions

did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus
Guest
did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus

Just looking at the way women were dressed made me want to throw up. I don’t think it was a good idea for me to go there.

did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus
Guest
did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus

Just looking at the way women were dressed made me want to throw up. I don’t think it was a good idea for me to go there.

A disillusioned Parent
Guest
A disillusioned Parent

I wish there was better guidelines for Shluchim to follow
regarding having young children in thier employ.
I can’t forget some of my children’s ” memorable”
experiences.
– driving a car with bad brakes
– driving a car and having ONE of the four bad tires BLOW
out on the highway!
Living in an apartment in a bad neighborhood with a door that
didn’t lock
Vi’ chulu, vi’chulu vi’ chulu
A
My children had amazing , beautiful, Shlichus experiences,
B H!
Too bad , these bad apples are the ones that ruined the
positive experiences.!

Concerned  Parent
Guest
Concerned Parent

Imagine if :
Every Shliach was rated post camp experience on such topics as
Safety. ( safe vehicles given to counsellors )
Kashrus
Tznius issues
Menshlichkeit
Honesty
etc.

What a difference that would make!!!!!

Thank you COL for facilitating this thought provockingl

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