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Thursday, 21 Av, 5779
  |  August 22, 2019
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    My Alternative Healing Experience

    From the COLlive inbox: A publishing professional tells of the negative aftereffects from visiting a healing practitioner. Full Story

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    Yosef G.
    Guest
    Yosef G.

    I’ve spoken with several people who encouraged me to go to the Call of the Shofar retreat – I never went – but the people that tried convincing me to go were from Crown Heights; they are great guys, very Lubavitch and most probaly went to Ohelei Torah. One of the guys that tried to convince me to go to this retreat is quite comfortable wearing jeans outside the house but don’t get him wrong, he’s very Chassidishe. One Sukkos we farbrenged in his Sukkah and it started to pour. While the mashpia farbrenging and other bochurim ran into the… Read more »

    dr. fisch
    Guest
    dr. fisch

    What are his credentials that he heals ppl and dispenses pellets? Do u honestly not know the names of the ‘medicine’ that hes giving u? Are u aware of any potential side effects? Doesnt sound responsible of you/him.

    What about COTS??
    Guest
    What about COTS??

    What does this have to do with COTS? isnt that all that has been discussed of late on collive and in lubavitch in general??
    Finally something instead of that nonsense…

    To comment #1
    Guest
    To comment #1

    I don’t know if you realized but you contradicted yourself. You start off by mentioning about the “chassidshe bochur with jeans” and then you end off by saying that with the “according to his ways” that “women and girls won’t go outside dressed like…” Firstly, which is a side point, why are undermining women. For men, its about serving G-d and giving oneself over to the Rebbe, and for women its just about covering your elbows. Thats Judaism? Are you really boiling down Judaism as “Commandments: Men – 613, Women – don’t wear pants”? Secondly, and your paradox, if someone… Read more »

    למך
    Guest
    למך

    At 150$ a session, Dr. Fish is great ( וכשמו כן הוא, אוהב דג ואכמ״ל) 😉

    Yonatan
    Guest
    Yonatan

    Mr. Fisch is a homeopath. He’s dispensing energy pellets, not medicine in the conventional sense. 🙂

    To number 2 very important
    Guest
    To number 2 very important

    Firstly, if you have ever met Mr; Fish you would know he knows what he’s talking about. The first time I met him he analyzed my husband on target without even me talking about him. He never met my husband before and he never saw a picture of him. The guy is brilliant. He analyzed me too and told me things about myself that I dont tell poeple and know and i never told him either. And he is sooo acurate! HE’s amazing! He has a gift from Hashem! And when he met my husband at another date later my… Read more »

     to #1
    Guest
    to #1

    Thank you for your words of true wisdom. Clarity and to the point.

    COTS is Practical
    Guest
    COTS is Practical

    COTS is not some sort of “in the clouds” healing. It is VERY PRACTICAL, with REAL, LASTING, and POSITIVE effects. period.

    Chabad and homeopathy
    Guest
    Chabad and homeopathy

    It seems like many Lubavitchers I know use homeopathy as opposed to western medicine. But I find many of those methods not aligning with Torah. Did the Rebbe use homeopathy or standard medicine? I am under the understanding that the Rebbe used REAL doctors.

    Inaccurate and Misleading
    Guest
    Inaccurate and Misleading

    This article is lacking adequate clarity and misleads the reader to draw conclusions about the energy healing practice. The article starts with an experience with a certain practitioner which by the description I understand is named R’ Y.S. from Eretz Yisroel. If this is correct a few matters I would like to address . 1) Y.S. consulted with Rabbi Ginsburg, who he knows personally and received approval for his methods as well as recommendation to keep healing in this way as this is a method of leosid lovo. (!) He also spoke to several mekubalim and rabbonim about what he… Read more »

    Kosher, kosher, kosher
    Guest
    Kosher, kosher, kosher

    For those wondering whether COTS is kosher, many big Rabbanim endorsed it.
    Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky (just one example) said it’s halachakly ok.

    to #12
    Guest
    to #12

    You are clearly not a Lubavitcher or even familiar with the rabbi you mention

    If not for all the other reason, just because this misnaged (google it if you don’t know what it means) supported it is already a reason why chassidim shouldn’t be going there…

    Cults CULTivate
    Guest
    Cults CULTivate

    Shofar CULTivates one with positive feelings towards friends, family, and Hashem.

    I never went to it, never drank the kool aid, but my friend did. Just from hearing the reasoning behind the exercises makes me understand why it causes such amazing effects.

    I think we should create a Lubavitch version of shofar. Who’s on for it???

    "Healers" = Bafoonery
    Guest
    "Healers" = Bafoonery

    In the past when I’d seen ads and heard talk of “healers” in Crown Heights and elsewhere I just laughed. I don’t know much about COTS and won’t join the naysayers but this I DO know. The idea of someone healing through energy is laughable, insane, and untrue. It’s not physiologically possible. Energy cannot heal. Period. Even if these “healers” were a free-of-charge service I would not go.

    Stop the insanity. Why aren’t people more down-toearth?

    HEALERS??!! Come on! And to think people PAY these hucksters is appalling highway robbery.

    to #5
    Guest
    to #5

    he takes $250 a session, and better said, he knows how to catch innocent fish, and eat them for lunch, with a smile,

    huh?
    Guest
    huh?

    “He said (as heard from another student): “Since this is obviously not the real thing, we need to increase our efforts to promote the real thing instead.””

    you heard this from somebody that heard it from r’ ginsburg
    all i want to know is what is he basing his judgments on?

    Confused
    Guest
    Confused

    So a practitioner of a practice that has no scientific credibility convinced you that alternative healing is a sham?
    Not that I disagree with the conclusions, but I just can’t see any stream of logic in the argument you have presented. I’m not sure how you can simultaneously accept his opinion about the other form of alternative healing you experienced, when it would seemingly also call his own practice into question.
    My pseudo-science is better than your pseudo-science?

    really?
    Guest
    really?

    my grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time and she lived to be 100!

    to 14
    Guest
    to 14

    point is lubavitch doesnt do quick fixes like screaming till your hoarse and breathing till you faint. our point of living is thtt its a life-long journey of overcoming struggles to keep getting closer to Hashem. however, an inspiring , uplifting Shabbos would be a great idea!

    To #13 I'm not a Lubavitcher, I'm a Jew.
    Guest
    To #13 I'm not a Lubavitcher, I'm a Jew.

    Misnagid, not misngaid. Your argument Irrelevant at best.
    Since when is a litveshe rov disqualified from paskining Halacha? Which Shulchin Auruch did you find that?! Your hatred is unbelievable!

    Hi Im number 7 and i had couple of typos sorry
    Guest
    Hi Im number 7 and i had couple of typos sorry

    Hi Im number 7 and had a couple of typos what i meant to say was – my husband was skeptical before he met him and after he met him – and mr. fish analyzed him he was blown away! Since he was so on target without any previous data. So go see for yourself – he will blow you away too – I’m sure!

    Thank you number 11 for clarifying
    Guest
    Thank you number 11 for clarifying

    Thank you number 11 for clarifying!

    To number 10
    Guest
    To number 10

    Who cares what the Rebbe used – IF it works it works – some things are more in the open now then was then! Why dont you care about your health enough not to get the extremely harmful side affects of western medicine? If you care you would look for alternative – but you obviously are blinded there is so much info. out there today – google any medicine you will see side affects – and then decide whether or not u want them. And then theres the side affects that they wont tell you about – but happens like… Read more »

    To number 14
    Guest
    To number 14

    The reason why call of the shofar cultivates positive feeling towards friends and family is because the purpose of call of the shofar is to a. connect with one’s neshama. b. be kind to oneself by allowing oneself to feel human by saying what they always wanted to say. c. almost like reparenting oneself – see what do i learn from here and what do i therefore want to give to others. People are happy when they fill heard. Which is accomplished and especially when their goals of what they want to give to others is meaningful its from them… Read more »

    Mordy #2
    Guest
    Mordy #2

    Collive is administered by very well meaning people, however, it has drifted into areas far beyond its expertise. There are people whose lives are strongly and directly affected by these treatments and these articles. I don’t think that the editors here would start critiquing experimental cancer treatments (at least I hope they wouldn’t) and they need to stop critiquing these various alternative mental treatments as well. As R’ Schwei and R’ Braun wrote, it is impossible to paskin regarding these issues without very specific experience and expertise, and it is up to individuals to consult with maspi’im that they trust… Read more »

    No Real Endorsement
    Guest
    No Real Endorsement

    Once any Rav or Health Professional will dig deeper into this program they will have serious reservations about it and actually come out against it unless there’s a major overhaul and it is constantly under Rabbinic and Professional Psychological authority.

    Omg!!!
    Guest
    Omg!!!

    Its enough!!!!!
    Just go learn tora!!!

    Shofar
    Guest
    Shofar

    Better to take drugs then going to the colta leminehem avodo zoro mamesh

    Create Lubavitch Version of Shofar
    Guest
    Create Lubavitch Version of Shofar

    #14 is right. Since the majority of current Shoifar clients already are well versed in the methodology, it’s so easy to do it ourselves with the added benefit that then we are free to do it by using all concepts of Chassidus instead. The added benefit will be that our CH Mashpiim will not be insulted because the Lubavitcher who will run our own Shofar system will be called the Mashpiim. Our own internal Mashpiim can then make our own emergency very “Urgent” Asifa which will call in the name of our Mashpiim, that everyone should be Mekabel Our Hashpaah… Read more »

    Lol 14
    Guest
    Lol 14

    It’s called a farbrengen!

    Yankel
    Guest
    Yankel

    To #1-14. And 1 – 500 Its all Bitul Torah….And therefore see Tanya Perek 1
    Phony Baloney.

    # 11 is right
    Guest
    # 11 is right

    The author of the healing experience is definitely confused and contradicts himself.

    As the Alter Rebbe says in Tanya that if someone gets Machshoves Zoros he should not be a Shoteh to assume that the source is from the outside but the source of the undesirable thoughts is from within himself.

    Similarly Mashpiim shouldn’t blame the lack of Chassidishkiet on contact with the outside, that Lubavitcher are seeking anything on the outside, rather the problem is internal, which is the lack of Hashpaah of the Mashpiim, because they are “out of touch” with todays generation.

    chaya
    Guest
    chaya

    I think that there is a problem with denial In the chabad community… there seems to be an issue with people realizing that there are issues in this world and its perfectly normal I feel like this community focuses so much on shlichus and the outside than taking care of there own people and community… it should be normal to have to go get help a therapist is the smartest thing to do!!! Therapy is the answers for most people trying to go to the kol shofar

    Moderator
    Guest
    Moderator

    How can I contact Rabbi/Mr./Dr. Fisch as I would like to be in touch with him on my next trip to the Big Apple

    To #7
    Guest
    To #7

    Wow! He googled you and your husband, that is just amazing!

    to #10
    Guest
    to #10

    I asked the same question .I actually wrote to ask the Rabbi at Chabad.org and the response I got was that the Rebbe told someone who asked him to ask a rav and the rav answered to go with the majority opinion ie western medicine. i am at aloss as to why so many Lubavitchers are so into Easterm medicine. The west has a better proven track record in terms of life expectancy. This is just more of that endless searching for THE ANSWER THAT WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS.

    To #12
    Guest
    To #12

    Rabbi Kaminetsky is 90 years old and never heard first hand info about it he based it on Twerski ( Milwaukee ) who said he also doesnt know much but Simcha Frischling is a Yirei Shamayaim Let it be known that Simcha does not daven anymore in a shul and does not attend any shul in the area in Sydney where he lives. His Yiras Shamayim left him so did his business who he sold to Schmukler ( Rabbi Marlows Son in law ) and others who bought the rights from him to run it in ny. THey have a… Read more »

    DOES COTS UTILIZE CULT-USED  TOOLS? Yes yes and yes!!
    Guest
    DOES COTS UTILIZE CULT-USED TOOLS? Yes yes and yes!!

    I should know! Btdt! These tools are very effective at inculcating (aka Daasafying, Internalizing) concepts which most ppl who are self aware and growth oriented, already knew! The power of a cult is in it’s tools! Powerful effective tools! Tools need to be considered essentially neutral, not good no evil perse’ While everyone agrees that Simacha may not be reliable to extract the tools from their wide spread use for bad, We can all agree that in principle, (as the letter from the Rebbe encourages, re the necessity for Rabbonim and Experts to develop the essential utility of these tools… Read more »

    Sometimes no way out
    Guest
    Sometimes no way out

    Alternative emotional healing may some times be needed independent of chasidic teachings. Take for an example a person has a difficulty with anger due to repressed childhood emotions. Chasidus has answers for this challenge but if the person is deeply entrenched in his emotions it may be very difficult to resolve. The person needs to open his closed up and repressed emotions. So the problem is not the methodology of chasidus but the persons approach. The problem is not in the ohr but in the kli. Natural healing methods help clear this “trauma” and help open the person (who was… Read more »

    To #15 energy healing
    Guest
    To #15 energy healing

    There is a soul that vitalizes the body. This soul along with everything up to Hashem himself is an energy ( and Hashem the source) the energyl can not only be intellectually understood (chasidus) but can be subtly experienced. Since all is energy including the life-force of our body wouldnt it make sense that increasing and enhancing this energy into an afflicted area of the body of soul would make the body healthier and more functional. Agreed? Now a step further, is this possible? yes because energy is magnetic force meaning one object can and does affect another. At least… Read more »

    tarot
    Guest
    tarot

    COTS ,healers
    whats next? any Kosher Tarot in CH?

    #38
    Guest
    #38

    i literally laughed out loud at ur comment

    So you know if he attends shul and you know that he sold it and you know that rav kamenetsky is 90 (he was born in 1925 FYI)

    get your facts straight 😉

    To all -
    Guest
    To all -

    I have some snake oil in my back pocket. Will the line
    please form to the right.

    Agree with number 40 and comment to 36
    Guest
    Agree with number 40 and comment to 36

    I agree with 40 i am impressed with those that see the value in it and yes you explained it very well. How this is needed in addition to chassidus.

    to number 36 I am the one who wrote number 7 no the stuff he said was very private and there would have been no way for him to find it out thru googling. Go and see for yourself and you will be blown away too!

    to 38
    Guest
    to 38

    What you wrote is a total falsehood, that has absolutely no basis in reality!

    You are being motzi shem ra. Period.

    to # 31 from #14
    Guest
    to # 31 from #14

    Our typical farbrengens just don’t cut it out. People aren’t honest and open and unfortunately, crown heightsers are infested with judgemental attitudes.

    At Shofar, we learn how to be open, loving, and accepting of each other without any judgements. Let’s infuse those feelings into our farbrengens. We gotta break through our inhibitions with some extreme cult-like measures. 😉

    to 41
    Guest
    to 41

    gobbly gok and more gobly gook. what’s wrong you ask.your supposition isn’t based on science but is based on new agey irrational thinking.

    There is hope in Libavitch
    Guest
    There is hope in Libavitch

    If comment 39 is any indication re the ASIFA’s impact on cots cultists, then I must declare the asifa a success!!

    To #48
    Guest
    To #48

    1- science doesn’t (openly) accept the concept of soul enlivens body, whereas this is a fundamental of chasidus. Hence science would give no credence to the energy healing theory whereas Torah would.
    2- instead of ignorantly bashing I would appreciate constructive feedback on the logic presented in 41.

    To # 43
    Guest
    To # 43

    If Rabbi Kamentzky was born in 1925, wouldn’t that make him VERY CLOSE to 90 AMU”SH. So your disclaimers and laugh aloud’s are probably not worth much, which makes me tend to believe the other statements #38 wrote as well, especially as the rumor aout the Shul attendance is a KOLO DELO POSIK. Besides that, Rabbi Shea Hecht is probably more of an expert on cults than most or all of the commentators here. (BTW I’m surprised he didn’t speak, though the advertisement said he would. I’m sure he would have something interesting to say).

    Too #47
    Guest
    Too #47

    I have not noticed too many loving comments from either side. Actually most not all but most of the comments in the 4-5 articles have been critical, scathing, judgemental. But on the positve side, a bi men brent about an important inyan, How do we reach others. How do we find happiness. If all these comments, articles, asifas, etc will bring more awareness of the importance of good communication, the importance of mashpiim who are more attuned to their students, more positive acceptance and love in accordance with how the Rebbe would want it, then this whloe uproar will have… Read more »

    This is ten times worse than COTS
    Guest
    This is ten times worse than COTS

    I think this article demonstrates just how many gullible frum people are out there. I see more halachic and other issues with these methods of healing than with COTS. It’s absolute ganeivas daas and looks like maase kishuf.

    Bottom Line on COTS
    Guest
    Bottom Line on COTS

    WHAT IS ‘CALL OF THE SHOFAR’? Posted on Dec 17, 2013 in Cults The program “Call of the Shofar” is an Orthodox Jewish version of EST aka Landmark Forum. It is popular with many Lubavitchers and is a form of LGAT – Large Group Awareness Therapy. As such, it is very dangerous, according to this one rabbi. Is The Possible You seminar a form of LGAT? It sounds like it. About half of my friends swear by LGAT but I would never participate in such a thing. Jim* emails: “Call of the Shofar is pop psychology using cult-like methods of… Read more »

    For those that bash alternative therapies
    Guest
    For those that bash alternative therapies

    I, myself was affected by too much antibiotics. And Interestingly, recently I heard on a regular radio station, that there are certain {sick} DR’s. who would R”L amputate a limb bec, they make more money, instead of using another way to heal.
    Of Course, there’s a very important place and many lifesaving tools for good Western Drs, but I think there is a place for certain alternative healing. As far as I know, this excludes energy healing, bec. I’ve heard it is not allowed.
    This comment has nothing to do with Cots. I don’t know enough about it.

    mr fisch
    Guest
    mr fisch

    whats his phone number?

    HOMEOPATHY - BIGGEST FRAUD THERE EVER WAS
    Guest
    HOMEOPATHY - BIGGEST FRAUD THERE EVER WAS

    This was said by a Chassidishe Rebbe.

    fI am embaresed COL would allow this.
    Guest
    fI am embaresed COL would allow this.

    How would the Rebbe respond to this……
    I definitely do not see to much Ahavas Yisroel. It looks like most people are not besimcha? I ask why….
    One thing for sure we are missing Bitochon. Rebbe we need you.

    lesson of the day
    Guest
    lesson of the day

    crown heights is messed up/we need to learn to stop judging/focus on more important issues in our community

    Fisch
    Guest
    Fisch

    i also want his # phone

    i dont trust in doctors, they just want opertaions to make money

    Think Soul
    Guest
    Think Soul

    Yonatan, while I appreciate your sharing your experiences with alternative healing, you are mixing issues. COTS is an LGAT (although a pretty small one by their own report), a derivative of Landmark Forum, which itself is an EST spinoff. COTS is not alternative healing. Doctors (conventional), as well as alternative healers, including homeopaths, can only do body medicine. The problem arises when either or both the COTS-type LGATs, conventional doctors, and alternative healers start dabbling in soul medicine. There is only one soul-based medical tradition–our own traditional Jewish medicine, which has been practiced for over 5,000 years, and its modern… Read more »

    to #59
    Guest
    to #59

    i’m sorry but i’m unable to give any constructive feed back on the logic presented in # 41 because there wasn’t any logic presented in #41.

    To #10 and #57
    Guest
    To #10 and #57

    Homeopathy is not voodoo. It’s highly scientific. It is clear you are unfamiliar with its science. People assume that since homeopathy and other forms of energy healing work subtlely, they are not ‘real’. Hm. This is called ignorance, folks. It’s easy to shun that which you know nothing about.

    X