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Thursday, 15 Heshvan, 5782
  |  October 21, 2021

‘Minyanim Outside 770 Aren’t With Rabbonim’s Permission’

Embarrassingly, the location with the second most social-distancing complaints in New York City is 770 Eastern Parkway. Crown Heights Rabbi Yosef Braun says minyanim held outside 770 are without rabbinic approval. Full Story, Video

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But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:00 pm

If they keep the 6ft rule and wear masks, then why not?

Because
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:18 pm

In a public place like 770, there will inevitably be a growing crowd

No...
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:20 pm

The Rabbonim made it very clear, what’s not to understand they said no minyanim. Theres many reasons behind it which they already stated. Even at 6ft apart it encourages others to act irresponsibly.

The rabbanim have been very clear
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:21 pm

No is no

100% Let them
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:21 pm

People have to stop taking our rights away!

Rights?
Reply to  100% Let them
April 21, 2020 9:40 pm

Haven’t there been enough tragedies r”l ?????????????
Is it a “right” to risk spreading the virus Chas veShalom///////

We lost so many greats because we weren't careful
Reply to  Rights?
April 21, 2020 10:37 pm

Rabbis Groner, Freidman, Sobol, and Singer to name a few. And many others. Social distancing is what stands between the virus and more deaths. Especially our community who has lost so much and has so much to lose, shouldn’t be spouting the “rights” argument. Lives are more important.

Tragedies are meant by Hashem
Reply to  Rights?
April 21, 2020 10:55 pm

We have to do what we have to do, don’t take out our rights. We don’t force you to join a minyan, that’s between you and hashem but certainly don’t stop us. Life and death in in hashems hands not in basar vdam. Have some faith! Our rebbeim risked their lives for yiddishkeit! No spiritual minyan will risk someone life!

what is wrong with you
Reply to  Tragedies are meant by Hashem
April 22, 2020 6:53 am

they risked their lives….they didnt risk other peoples lives which is what you are doing. stop already. you are risking other peoples lives in order to go against what the rabbonim have said….you are no hero. going against the rabbonim is not yiddishkeit.

What is wrong with YOU?!
Reply to  what is wrong with you
April 22, 2020 9:56 am

“They risked their lives and not other people’s lives” seriously?! Go learn how the freierdiker Rebbe went on mesuras nefesh for chedarim and encouraged his chassdim to do the same and by that they got arrested for going against the government. People honestly?! Nothing the rebbeim did all these years for us means anything! For shame!

Not Mesiras Nefesh
Reply to  What is wrong with YOU?!
April 22, 2020 2:20 pm

It’s not Mesiras Nefesh like the rebbiem because the government wouldn’t allow. This is literally for your own health and the lives of others. Don’t go to a Minyan!

Avoidable Tragedies are not Meant by Hashem
Reply to  Tragedies are meant by Hashem
April 22, 2020 11:18 am

I don’t know if you are serious or a troll. If there happen to be others who might be swayed by your fallacious argument, I will address them. Tragedies happen, yes. However, we have the bechira to minimize damage from those tragedies. That is ratzon Hashem. E.g., if you see someone drawing, you do not say “this is from Hashem. I do not need to save him.” As the famous Reb Elimelech and Reb Zusha story demonstrates, in instances of pikuach nefesh, Hashem wants us to perform a different version of Yiddishkeit. The Rebbeim fought against oppressive regimes who wished… Read more »

This virus came from Hashem
Reply to  Avoidable Tragedies are not Meant by Hashem
April 22, 2020 2:51 pm

Hashem sent china to be the shliach. Don’t tell me china has the full blame. Its our fault the beis hamikdash was destroyed, hashem sent the greeks as a shliach. Bottom line: whos to live and whos to die is in hashems hands – not in the hands of minyanim!Regarding your last question- i have to ask that to you?

Pathetic
Reply to  This virus came from Hashem
April 22, 2020 9:09 pm

Pure hefkarus. Take responsibility that’s what hashem gave you life for. Saying hashem gave us this virus therefore we must accept it and who dies, dies what are you talking about for real. Please learn more today, its lack of common sense what your saying.

Ridiculous statement
Reply to  Tragedies are meant by Hashem
April 22, 2020 9:03 pm

There’s Mesirus nefesh and theres hefkarus what the rebbeim did was mesirus nefesh beacuase they risked their own lives, these minyonim risk the lives of others therefore its hefkaros and should be entirely stopped.

G-d except prayers only with 10!
Reply to  Rights?
April 22, 2020 4:29 pm

Who will pray for the sick people???

To closed minyan is, 100% danger for the comunity!

Halocho said: “g-d except wen 10 ppl praying”!!

Forsure! With 6 feet!
With 6feet social Distance!

not true
Reply to  G-d except prayers only with 10!
April 24, 2020 5:39 pm

G-D accepts everyones prayers…. also we are told that we are to desecrate even the holy Shabbos to save someones life so that he/she can live many more. We are not just told that we can but that we MUST. Maybe if we listen to our Rabbanim for once, we can ALL live to daven in a minyan for many more years to come.

Hashem is everywhere
Reply to  not true
April 28, 2020 7:20 pm

Hashem is EVERYWHERE. He can hear your prayers wherever you are. Trying to gather a minyan isn’t showing up, it’s showing off. And I thought I heard a possuk somewhere that said “Now, therefore Choose Life” and another one that states that you should take care of yourself.”

Not a right!
Reply to  100% Let them
April 21, 2020 11:35 pm

One does not have a “right” to expose oneself to a danger for which there is absolutely NO gain. It is halacha to follow the law of the land in this case.

Rabanim
Reply to  100% Let them
April 21, 2020 11:36 pm

Rabanim are NOT people
Zu dvar Halacha
Would you blow shofar on Shabbos RH ?

Anonymous
Reply to  100% Let them
April 22, 2020 2:51 am

Haven’t enough people died in crown heights. From the virus so why cant people listen to the Rabbonim

100% Let them... LIVE
Reply to  100% Let them
April 28, 2020 7:12 pm

No one is “taking away” your rights, they are trying to keep everyone safe. What is more important, your rights or your LIFE? It’s not about rights it’s about LIFE. This virus is airborne, not just on-contact. It’s deadly. NY has the highest death rates, and I don’t think it is because of the population number, I think it’s because too many people are not following CDC regulations.

what is wrong with you
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:29 pm

the rabbonim said NO why are you questioning them….you don’t know all the ins and outs…it is ridiculous that you are questioning them
…….the word of the rabbonim is TORAH not what you think and understand. anyone who goes against what the rabbonim say ….even with 6ft rule or maskes….so ridiculous….is going against TORAH

You dont understand
Reply to  But.what if...
April 21, 2020 8:31 pm

There are ppl who don’t keep the 6ft rule or have masks so Thais to insure everyone safety

Title
April 21, 2020 8:05 pm

The main reason for it to be the 2nd most on the list is because no rabbonim, community leaders, shomrim, shmira, or any community Activists DID anything and it was left to the police for anything to happen. Therefore, many people decided to take the way of complaing in order to stop the chilul hashem that takes place daily in and around beis rabeinu shebibavel.

Berel
Reply to  Title
April 21, 2020 9:39 pm

The reason why it’s the second highest in NYC is because community members are reporting it.

There are plenty of areas in Brooklyn where distancing is much worse but for better or worse they don’t have zealots falling over themselves to report it.

It's not about being a "zealot" if you report.
Reply to  Berel
April 22, 2020 12:02 am

It is pikuach nefesh. So sad that you don’t get it.

Rabbinic authority of crown heights
April 21, 2020 8:15 pm

You know who they are , they don’t obey the rules send them back to their country , the school is not functioning “ Go Home !

oh puleeze!
April 21, 2020 8:18 pm

I dont get it, I have been in the parks for walks, keeping my distance, and watching with horror how many people are not,, there are drum circles, and big groups congregating there with no masks,, I am so sick of hearing about how bad the Jews are.

Missed the point
Reply to  oh puleeze!
April 21, 2020 8:57 pm

This is not the CNN website. This is a Chabad sure and we are pointing out problems that affect our community. This argument that others are doing worse is so pathetic, basically stating that if only five Jews die and 100 of them do, that makes you feel good?!

what is wrong with you
Reply to  oh puleeze!
April 22, 2020 6:57 am

who cares what other people are doing. we care about our community and the funeral schedule daily….we have the power to stop the deaths. that is what this is about. this is not about being upset that we are being pointed at in the media for breaking the social distancing. we want people in our community to stop taking other peoples lives into their hands and literally killing them.

Rabbinic authority of crown heights
April 21, 2020 8:18 pm

Please, send them home there is no school , they don’t obey send them home , this is not the first time , they are not obeying the authorities .
770 is not a zoo

Thank You
April 21, 2020 8:19 pm

Thank you Beis Din of Crown heights for taking a stand against these hooligans.

Can whoever is in charge of that area please take responsibility. It’s really not fair on the community, particularly those experiencing pain during this pandemic. Like building a Maakah around your roof, don’t allow blood to be spilt on your property.

Visas
April 21, 2020 8:27 pm

Maybe the visas of bochurim that disobey the state and rabbanim should simply be revoked and they can be deported back to Israel to safely live out the virus

Facts
Reply to  Visas
April 21, 2020 10:14 pm

Half of these bachurim are not Israelis it is Americans they have legal rights to be in the us and they will continue to make minyanim
As much as i disagree with tzfatim in general and the minyanim unless there acts of violence there is היתר for mesirah

Mesirah when lives are endagered
Reply to  Facts
April 22, 2020 11:26 am

The Rambam writes in Hilchos Chovel uMazik (chapter 8:11) that the prohibition of Mesirah does not apply to someone who endangers the public. This is also the ruling of Shulchan Aruch (CM 388:12) and Sma there.

Facts
Reply to  Visas
April 21, 2020 10:16 pm

There is a law in ny you are not allowed to call ice protecting illegal immigrants

Fact check
Reply to  Visas
April 21, 2020 11:21 pm

Most of the people making the minyan are American citizens

Rabbi Braun good!
April 21, 2020 8:47 pm

Lately many ppl in CH are applauding Rabbi Braun for standing up and protecting the community from anyone evil or evil inclinations. BH we have a complete Beis din all agreeing on matters of protecting our community!

Many "kvutznikim" went home to EY weeks ago
April 21, 2020 8:55 pm

It turned out that more than 50% of them had the virus, it was found when they returned home to EY, r”l. So 770 and its area are hotspots for the virus. IT’s really too bad these remaining few in Crown Heights did not also go home to EY, b/c they’d have a chevrah to hang with, at the quarantine hotels that EY put them in when they arrived home to EY. Some are even doing a big chessed for avelim who need to say kaddish, b/c they have a minyan together there in EY. At least they would likely… Read more »

Just saying
Reply to  Many "kvutznikim" went home to EY weeks ago
April 21, 2020 10:26 pm

A lot of these guys are actually American

Why is that better?
Reply to  Many "kvutznikim" went home to EY weeks ago
April 22, 2020 3:48 am

The health department of Israel has begged the askonim of Chabad not to send bochurim back to Israel after Purim so it wasnt such a great idea.

Revoke!
April 21, 2020 9:05 pm

revoke the visas of these kids that are causing chilul hashem so they can feel holy!

M B
April 21, 2020 9:11 pm

The reason why 770 is number 2
It’s because we have 1 or 2 young guys that have nothing better to do than complain to authorities against theirs own brothers

We pray that hashem will give them a better occupation, Moshiach now!

We should call out bad people in our community
Reply to  M B
April 21, 2020 10:39 pm

We have this obsession with portraying a sanitized view of our community to the world. That has to end. People are dying. If stopping more deaths means reporting “our own brothers” to the police then I’ll be the first one to do it.

It's not a situation of "nothing better to do"
Reply to  M B
April 22, 2020 12:05 am

It’s about pikuach nefesh. Sad that you don’t understand this.

N O
April 21, 2020 9:12 pm

whenever I passed 770, I shake my head in dismay. It is very baffling to me why people hear what the rabbis have to say, but they don’t listen and think that they can outfox then. PEOPLE WHO DON’T GE IT, PLEASE get it together!! There’s no roof over your head and there’s nothing in your head

joey
April 21, 2020 9:26 pm

“bochurim being dispersed are a group of the very few yeshiva students who came to live and study at 770 for the year who are still there despite the virus.” says Eli cOHEN.
Ahem, there seem to be quite a few members at this minyan.
You sure u guys are being truthful???

Ahvas chinam
Reply to  joey
April 21, 2020 11:57 pm

We need Ahvas chinam ! Please stop

Ahavas Chinam does not mean Ignorance
Reply to  Ahvas chinam
April 22, 2020 11:22 am

We could love everyone and yet, if they are endangering others, report them to law enforcement who make sure more people don’t get hurt. This view of “upholding the image of the community even though people are being hurt” is the same attitude that led to silence regarding CSA. We, as a community, have to move on from that unhealthy mindset.

Give me a brake
April 21, 2020 9:32 pm

Let’s not point at one type of people. There are minyonim on every block that are not in accordance to the Rabbonim’s guidance.

horrible
Reply to  Give me a brake
April 22, 2020 6:59 am

at a time like this we should be following the Rabbonim not flaunting publicly that people in this community do as they please…how is that a chassidic community???

A people apart
April 21, 2020 9:55 pm

The Rabbanim need to say if it is permissible to call authorities on these people. Calling them can create a chilul Hashem even more because it could be publicized world wide on the internet. The media and law enforcement care more about a few Jews breaking the law than they do about the crowds in the city parks (The New York Post did have an article about gatherings of people in a park in Williamsburg on Sunday which police ignored.)
In the meantime, others must practice social distancing, wearing masks, etc.and beg Hashem to send Moshiach.

Not Surprised.
April 21, 2020 10:02 pm

Unfortunately CH has quite a few fools who don’t mind risking the well-being and lives of their neighbours. After reading on the COLLIVE about the passing of beautiful and special individuals R’L almost on a daily basis, it is mind boggling that the advice of the doctors and the psak of the rabbonim are still being ignored by these vagabonds.

do what we need to do
Reply to  Not Surprised.
April 22, 2020 7:01 am

the rabbonim have told us to follow the law of the land. we must do what we need to do to save the lives of people in our community and the law of the land is to report people who go against the mandated guidelines of social distancing. save the lives of our community members and report those who have been repeatedly warned to stop harming others by their behavior.

Not gonna happen
April 21, 2020 10:04 pm

In theory, if everyone would follow the social distancing rules and take all proper precautions, technically speaking it could work. But there is a reason that rabinim do not permit minyonim and that is because these precautions aren’t put into action by many. PLEASE STOP THE SPREAD! IT LITERALLY SAVES LIVES!

Not The problem
April 21, 2020 10:13 pm

The 5 bochrim is Not the problem The problem is I see so-called normal people going to these porch minyonim and they are not keeping a distance and they are not wearing gloves and they are not wearing masks and they are coughing sneezing walking up and touching the rails with their bare hands and other people follow them we know that hundreds of people are beyond sick in our neighborhood there’s over 100 people in the hospitals from our neighborhood alone and who knows how many more people in their homes and because normal people responsible people are not… Read more »

NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED, NOT MERELY TOLD!
April 21, 2020 10:36 pm

The people insisting on upholding the outdoor minyanim, probably –
1) are not computer people and dont go online (no avaira)
2) English may not be home language and they dont see english websites
which have halachic instructions from rabbis, and should be told again
and again (for the present time):

Chief Rabbi Lau.

Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef ,
sephardi chief rabbi of Israel
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278519

Rabbi Kanievsky – Lithuanian Haredi rov Israel – no minyanim
Rabbi Kanievsky explained his ruling by saying, “It’s pikuach nefesh [a matter of saving lives].”

Chief Rabbi David Lau –
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278852

Rabbi Freundlich, shaliach Beijing
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/278006

It’s very simply
April 21, 2020 11:06 pm

It boils down to: do you value hashem or your minyan?

exactly
Reply to  It’s very simply
April 22, 2020 7:03 am

you said it….the people at the minyanim are there for themselves not for hashem. the rabbonim are torah. it is against torah

Very sad
April 21, 2020 11:09 pm

To see that bochrim wants to be so “CONNECTED” to the Rebbe, and their craziness goes over the limits to the point that they lose their power to obey simple rules, which the Rebbe itself always said that we should always listen to the Rabbonim. It’s very simple.
By the way, a part of these bochrim are davka American…so we cannot blame only on Israelis over here.

Ahvas yisroel
April 21, 2020 11:57 pm

There’s plenty of hidden minyanim
All around crown heights ! We know this is going on . We need Ahvas chinam not since chinam in this time

ahavas chinam
Reply to  Ahvas yisroel
April 22, 2020 7:05 am

sinas chinam is not caring about the lives of our community members…it is even worse then that…outside minyanim or hidden minyanim is plain and poshut shfichas domim…..ahavas chinam is valuing lives and reporting those who do not

Who is with Hashem?
April 22, 2020 12:53 am

Ahavas Yisroel? So let people sin because we don’t want to offend them? When someone is doing an aveira we are obligated to stop them and to think you shouldn’t because it’s a lack of Ahavas Yisroel is your Yetzer Harah talking. That’s the problem with Chabad. For 25 years our leaders have let the Moshichist run a mock in 770 and we expect these people to listen to anything that the Rabbonim have to say?? I implore anyone in a leadership role to use this time to rid the Rebbes shul and holy headquarters of any mention of Yechi!… Read more »

Not so fast
April 22, 2020 7:21 am

As an american who lives in CH for 23 Years i chose to attend the 770 minyan regularly and from what in comparison to what i have seen and heard of other “clandestine” minyanim in the neighborhood, its one of the most diciplined when it comes to abiding by the social distancing rules and guidlines. 2. I have yet to see any correlation between the sick and dying to the atendees of the 770 minyan as i follow both closley and have not seen any of the residents on the “sick and dying” list attend the 770 minyan since its… Read more »

You don't get it
Reply to  Not so fast
April 22, 2020 12:01 pm

Asymptomatic people (which might include YOU or others at your minyan) spread the disease to the vulnerable who suffer and DIE for your non-accepted “tefilos.” The rabannim ruled in Crown Heights. Every time you say Hashem’s name it’s a brocho livatolo.

Your treatise is filled with fallacies.
Reply to  Not so fast
April 22, 2020 12:49 pm

Here are a few: 1) “its one of the most diciplined [sic] when it comes to abiding by the social distancing rules and guidlines [sic]” ANSWER” There ARE no “social distancing rules and guidelines” FOR COMMUNAL PRAYER in NYC — it is currently an emergency situation and such gatherings have been ruled illegal in the 5 boroughs, regardless of the fact that YOU obviously have a problem with this temporary ruling, which our rabbanim are echoing and endorsing, by the way. I guess you consider yourself “above” all that, though…. 2) (same quote as above, and also your #2 above… Read more »

Thanks for speaking out
Reply to  Not so fast
April 22, 2020 12:59 pm

#keeptheminyangoing
We need food to keep us alive so too we need spiritual food and no minyan will “kill” anyone!

It’s Americans too!!!
April 22, 2020 8:08 am

I know one of my Neighbour’s sons davens there!
Then he comes home and his little siblings play outside with other neighbors… this is so dangerous..’eXh of them carrying it back into their own homes..

Yet another reason for CHers to bicker
April 22, 2020 11:03 am

The mortality rates have been updated! Although COVID-19 is dangerous for those over 60 and with preexisting conditions, for everyone else it is a relatively mild illness. ANYONE VULNERABLE SHOULD STAY ON LOCKDOWN, POSSIBLY THROUGH THE SUMMER. Everyone else should get back to work and school with special restrictions for reducing the spread (hand washing, checking temperatures,
etc). Kids should go back to school/camp and teachers/administrators who are vulnerable for any reason should stay home, period!

shkoyach
Reply to  Yet another reason for CHers to bicker
April 23, 2020 7:32 am

Wishful thinking, mah friend.

Whom are they endangering?
April 22, 2020 2:24 pm

As I understand it these are bochurim, who live together and only associate with other bochurim. They don’t have grandparents at home, they don’t associate with elderly people, so how is their congregating a danger to anyone? This whole lockup is an insane idea that our stupid government has imposed on us, which is destroying the entire country and is causing more harm than if we did nothing and just let all the old people die r”l. Of course doing nothing would also be wrong, but the right response would have been to lock up only the elderly and immunocompromised… Read more »

RE: Whom are they endangering
Reply to  Whom are they endangering?
April 28, 2020 9:05 pm

So, the elderly and those with preexisting conditions are not at a “higher risk of catching the Virus.” They are at a higher risk of 𝒅𝒚𝒊𝒏𝒈 from the Virus, due to complications and/or weak immune systems. See, unlike humans, viruses don’t (and cannot) discriminate. It doesn’t matter who you are or from where you came, if you contract this virus, it will not be pleasant for you or those around you. But this is the most important thing: Whether you are a woman or a man, a child or an adult, Jewish, Christian, Israeli, Irish, Monk, Rabbi, Buddist. We all… Read more »

AGREE AND DISAGREE
April 22, 2020 2:34 pm

It’s so painful to watch the bickering and accusations, just like so many times in the past. The TRUTH is not so clear. The Los Angeles Department of Public Health just released updated mortality statistics for COVID-19 showing the rate as ONLY SLIGHTLY HIGHER than seasonal flu, and ONLY for those over 60 or with preexisting conditions. If you are over 60 or with preexisting conditions, you must remain home in quarantine for the foreseeable future – possibly even throughout the summer. That much is CLEAR. But facts are facts. The study showed that over 400,000 people in LA County… Read more »

Update will be based on changes, not "real data"
Reply to  AGREE AND DISAGREE
April 22, 2020 3:44 pm

The situation when the ban went into effect was different from how things are now.

Any update or revision to the ban, in the future, reflects changes in the level of crisis the city is in now or in the future, as opposed to a month ago or two weeks ago, etc.

Such a change does not mean that the authorities (secular or rabbonim) were wrong (and not relying on “real data” as you say) before.

DATA IS YOUR FRIEND!
Reply to  Update will be based on changes, not "real data"
April 23, 2020 2:53 pm

Nobody is saying authorities were “wrong” to err on the side of caution in the beginning of this pandemic. But we now know that the majority of the population recovers from COVID-19 with few symptoms, if any.

CASE IN POINT:

UPDATED DATA show that instead of 260,000 confirmed cases in NY as was previously thought, there have already been 2.7 million infections statewide — more than 10 times the state’s confirmed cases. Most of these cases were mild.

21.2% of NYC residents already have antibodies to COVID-19.

The problem with this
April 22, 2020 3:49 pm

People are getting reinfected in Korea and China. When it comes back, it comes back WORSE. If even ONE person has corona it will continue to spread. The quarantine is to flatten the curve which is to SLOW the rate of infection so the hospitals aren’t overwhelmed causing people to die of corona who might not otherwise. The govt isn’t crashing the U.S. economy because they want to. Until scientists develop a vaccine please G- everyone needs to do their part. Otherwise millions and millions will die. Not just over 60 or overweight. Maybe the next mutation will be worse… Read more »

Huh?
Reply to  The problem with this
April 23, 2020 3:02 pm

“When it comes back, it comes back worse” – FAKE NEWS.

We don’t know if COVID-19 acts more like HIV (antibodies mean nothing in terms of lifelong protection) or chicken pox (antibodies protect you for life). Most likely, it’s somewhere in between.

EXAMPLE:

SARS-CoV immunity peaks at around four months and offers protection for 2-3 years. Preeti Malani, chief health officer and professor of medicine at the University of Michigan, believes this is the most probable time frame for COVID-19.

#1 Takeaway: Build up your immunity.

The problem with this
Reply to  Huh?
April 30, 2020 9:31 pm

If you want to make an analogy to to another illness, why go to HIV? Fact: The common cold is a corona virus. Previous infection does not “confer immunity.” You can catch a cold multiple times a year, sometimes twice during one cold season.

What can you do for your country?
April 22, 2020 5:42 pm

Wash your hands
Daven without a minyan.
Say extra tehilim.
Learn mishnayos baal peh
Buy a letter in the sefer torah.
Learn more
Learn with someone over the phone.
Raise money for Hatzalah
Run an errand for an at-risk neighbor
Lose weight

lol
Reply to  What can you do for your country?
April 23, 2020 7:34 am

that lose weight part tho!

CAN WE ARGUE PROPERLY?
April 28, 2020 7:43 pm

This is quite the argument. Both sides have a point. 𝐒𝐚𝐟𝐞𝐭𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐢𝐦𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐭. 𝐃𝐚𝐯𝐞𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐚 𝐦𝐢𝐧𝐲𝐚𝐧 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐦𝐢𝐭𝐳𝐯𝐚𝐡, but I think it would be a more solid argument if we refrain from name-calling and/ ridiculing. I think it would be more Kadosh argument. I believe that calling someone or what they said “stupid, ridiculous, pathetic, etc” IS NOT the Torah way to argue. Have you ever read a commentary (on anything in the Torah) that included an insult about another commentator? Has Ramban ever said “The Rambam is being ridiculous” or Rambam saying “Rashi, that’s so stupid.”

X