A recent conference call provided anonymous listeners with answers to the delicate question “Does the Mizbeach Cry When an Abusive Marriage Ends?”
The call was co-hosted by the Sholom Bayis Taskforce, Crown Heights Jewish Community Council and the Adai Ad organization.
COLlive.com presents a summary of the call for the benefit of the public:
Yiddishkeit emphasizes the importance of intact families and encourages working on the marriage. Yet, there are some people in terribly abusive marriages for which divorce is the only option, but it is always the last resort after all else has been tried.
None of these people make this decision lightly. Mrs. Devora Krasnianski, organizer and moderator of the call, explained the inspiration behind this call.
“I’ve spoken to several women who lamented that they stayed for years in their intolerable marriage because people told them that the Torah frowns on divorce and the Mizbeach cries. It is time that people truly understand that piece of Gemara and the Torah’s view on divorce, in certain circumstances. Based on the numbers of participants on the call – over 300 – we see that this topic is on the mind of many.”
On this conference call, renowned teacher Rabbi YY Jacobson shed much light on the issue of divorce in Judaism. After the call, many listeners reached out with gratitude for Rabbi Jacobson’s strong words of validation of their plight, clarity into the Torah’s views, and practical advice.
We try to do anything to sustain a marriage. Divorce is not an option that we embrace initially or easily. Judaism is opposed to creating a culture of divorce. Divorce is sad. It is like an amputation. You do not do it unless there is no other option. Sometimes it is necessary to save the life. The same Torah that tells us the value of a marriage also legislates divorce. Is divorce immoral? Absolutely not! Sometimes it is the most moral thing you can do for yourself and your children.
Rabbi Jacobson stressed: It is very unfair and unjust to make a man or woman in an abusive marriage feel guilty that their thoughts about leaving the marriage are against Torah. When living with fear and walking on eggshells all the time, we are a dealing with a serious situation. You can’t tell someone to just endure it. If you don’t know what people are going through, don’t give advice. Just be quiet! Be empathetic. Be understanding.
With real empathy to the plight of these abused women and with disgust for the vindictiveness of the abuser, Rabbi Jacobson cried about the disgrace that so many people in our communities cover up for abusers. When a woman is suffering, it should be the pain of the entire Jewish people. Shame on all people who cover up for perpetrators and abusers. They allow victims to suffer for years. If he is cruel to his wife, people should go over to him in shul and call him out on it. He shouldn’t be getting aliyahs and other honors.
“It is one thing to disagree with your spouse. It is one think to get into a fight with your husband or wife. But inhumane cruelty? This must never be tolerated,” Jacobson said.
Throughout the talk, Rabbi Jacobson described what abuse really is. Being in an abusive relationship means constant fear, misery, and agony in the relationship. There’s no happiness in the house. Everybody deserves to live a happy life. No one should be living in a marriage where the atmosphere is always tense, blaming, no trust, and agony, filled with malicious and vindictive behavior. If the parties involved are ready to take accountability for their vice and seek help and act on it, that is awesome. Such marriages can become meaningful and wholesome. But when there are denial and blame, no honesty and accountability, and no willingness to work on yourself, it becomes a nightmare.
When there is an addiction, there is no authenticity and there cannot be a real relationship. If there is an addiction, the spouse must not become an enabler. The addict must go into recovery. Empathy is very different from enabling. Don’t enable in the name of empathy.
Mental illness is not the fault of the person suffering. But they must be willing to take accountability and deal with it. The spouse must learn about the illness and know the boundaries of where you can support and where you must create boundaries. Should one stay in a marriage with mental illness? That is something each person must decide. There are those who remain in such a marriage; they are unique and special people, and at times, there is a special beauty and love in such a marriage. These people are from the noblest and dedicated people you will find on the planet. Yet they love each other, and they learn how to deal with the challenge that Hashem has given this person.
Can an abusive marriage be saved? If the one with the problem – mental illness, abusive tendencies, addiction – acknowledges the struggle and sincerely works to correct the situation, then perhaps the marriage can be salvaged. However, if they don’t get the help, it can be a very tough situation.
With that background, Rabbi Jacobson explored the famous Gemara in Gittin, 90b: (Talking about the husband) “With regard to anyone who divorces his first wife, even the altar sheds tears for him,” quoting the prophet Malachi 2:13-14: “And this further you do: You cover the altar of the Lord with tears, with weeping, and with sighing, insomuch that He does not regard the offering any more, nor does He receive it with goodwill from your hand. Yet you say: What for? Because the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and the wife of your covenant.” In short: You have betrayed your wife – she is your friend and the wife of your covenant, but you have betrayed her. And that is why the altar cries.
Metzudas Dovid explains this posuk: The women were crying because of their shame, abuse and lack of dignity. And when the women cry, the altar cries.
Rashi explains: The women say to the altar ‘What iniquity has our husband found in us to treat us in such a derogatory fashion?’ and hence the altar cries.
The whole point of this Gemara and verse in Malachi is: There are some women hurt so badly and they cry, and therefore the altar cries.
To the comment that every situation is from Hashem and Hashem only gives what we can handle, Rabbi Jacobson said: We do not always know exactly what Hashem wants in a particular situation. He wants us always to work hard on our marriage and try to make it work. But sometimes G-d’s will is to get out of the situation. How does anyone know that G-d wants me to stay in the marriage? If G-d wanted people to stay in an abusive marriage, why does He include the concept of Gittin in the Torah?
AUDIO:
Rabbi Jacobson then spoke directly to those in abusive relationships, some points to the abused and some to the abuser:
– Often, you will get foolish advice from people who are clueless. Learn not to take all advice seriously. It is important to speak to people. But people who are empathetic and knowledgeable.
– You need to speak to top experts in the areas you are dealing with.
– Divorce is difficult. But it is an option to consider in certain situations. Divorce should not be decided impulsively. You need to have get very sound advice and follow also your gut.
– Consider the pros and cons. Objectively, from a place of strength, not weakness. Talk with experts. Know what is available to you – legally, mentally, emotionally, financially. Be informed. Read books on your struggles. Become educated. So you can make decisions from a place of empowerment. Evaluate your future from a place of power. Find out what legal powers you have.
– Don’t get into ego struggles. It is more important for you to be happy than to be right.
– Don’t always think about social pressure. Listen to your own voice, and don’t get affected by what others will say. When we give into social conformity, we abuse ourselves even more. Don’t betray your own emotions.
– Don’t forget to take care of yourself. Do things that nurture your body, mind and soul. You need to give yourself to deal with your challenges. Don’t become a shmatte (rag).
– If getting divorced, do it amicably. The children suffer terribly from the animosity in an ugly divorce. It is such a tragedy when friends and families instead of encouraging amicability, justify heinous behavior.
– Stop torturing your spouse after you are getting a divorce. Let it go! Move on! Let everybody move on.
For resources related to domestic violence, visit adaiad.org/resources
thank you Rabbi Jacobson. The dignity with how you approach these very difficult questions is what is usually missing from many professionals AND Rabbis. THANK YOU for giving respect and sensitivity to both parties.
This is the first I have heard of this. Can you please share what the Rebbe’s very specific fact-checking protocol in such cases is?
On One hand divorce is for resolving marriage on the other hand you’re saying that divorce is no good so what is the correct thing to do?
everyone please read #20 she says it best, specially the end part
The Family Court in Israel has put out statistics that over 90% of the abuse allegations made by women against their partners are false. Nevertheless, they are required to take each one seriously, often severely damaging the father’s relationship with his children. They say that they must do this for the ~10% of real claims. Sad.
To those who wrote ” “Most allegations are true” “Most allegations are false” “Most allegations are a tactic to get support/perks” Only Hashem knows who is making things up and why. No one on this blog can possibly say “most are true or most are false” (or why people lie and exaggerate during Divorces). There is no known mechanism in the world for anyone to study and objectively know how many allegations are made genuinely vs as a means to win in the breakup. How do you know what the percentage really is? Even the secular statistics that “two out… Read more »
Mrs. K is someone who really cares! The reason she lists the resources she does is not because she investigated them and confirmed that in all cases they help the real victims, rather, Mrs. K presented those resources for those women who are genuine victims, who themselves are honest and genuine, who are seeking to save their family, but are unfortunately married to someone who is too sick to to be helped and who’s sickness (bad behavior towards the wife and or children) is worse than the well known harm and fallout of Divorce. One additional point worth echoing is,… Read more »
Most allegations are true and most abusers use the term false allegations to deny what they did , its all part of their abuse. In fact many true abusers get away with what they did and appear as if they are a victim of false allegations. The place where I am coming from with this is firsthand personal experience. I never went to ohel, only close family members who he tried to isolate me from know my experience. I was very traumatized and scared of him because of the things he did to me that shocked me and overwhelmed to… Read more »
Sadly, while men make up about 30% of DV victims, there is rarely assistance offered them. I myself am a victim of false allegations. Thank God for my family and friends who stood by me during this horrific experience.
The staff are mostly sincere and caring people, The problem is structural and with their lax intake protocols and policies. They’re funding depends on a steady flow of “victims”. There are two people who handle DV intake and at Ohel and nether one has any special experiteis or credentials in screening for and detecting BPD (aka false allegations made by high functioning and socially believable deceives). The DV director defended her lax intake policy by saying, “the law does not require us to verify claims or motives” “If someone asks for our services and they are female, that’s enough”. Why… Read more »
I want you to know how helpful Ohel really is in regards to DV. They have helped me as well as others tremendously when I had to run away from worst abuse unimaginable!! I wouldn’t be where I am today w/o Ohel. I was in shelter with my kids. The ppl who work w the DV clients are very trained and are sincerely out to help and NOT for the money gain. I’m sorry if you think it’s otherwise. I know firsthand what they are and money hungry is not on their list.
Dear victims of abuse (By abuse I am regretting to all forms of marital abuse, physical, emotional and worst of all being falsely allccused and being taken through the hellish ringer of the “family court system”, yes, false allegations is the worst form of domestic abuse, and must be understood, especially since those who make false claims often seem perfectly honest and believeable, and usually attract a liegan of well-meaning good-hearted supporters). To all who are being abused, in any form, focus on consulting impartial (non profit driven) experts. Rabbi Jacobson said find “top experts” Yet the ones listed on… Read more »
#25- I’ve been in your place. It’s living in hell. I feel for you. It takes enormous courage to get out but you can do it. Follow the advice of 33. You must get support!! So so important!! Find the help. You owe it to yourself! You are important as a person and let NOBODY take that away!! Remember, the path a person wants to go, G-D leads him on. I have seen this for myself!! 49, Yes!! This is a giant problem in the community that people just don’t get it! For the abused spouse, it is just so… Read more »
#30 yes your right something is wrong. Our community has denied and buried abuse for so long that it is not bubbling over. Problems don’t go away when they are denied they just get worse
Question for Rabbi YY Since abuse happens away from the public, How do I know which man to harass in public (bec his paranoid wife is spreading rumors that he is an abuser vs who is a real abuser). Rabbi YY I am told that anyone can be an abuse, even a great and talented speaker. Question, what do you mean when you say, “people in Shull need to harras and not give shul honors to an abuser? How am I supposed to know whom exactly to Harras? When do I know if what someone told me about a certain… Read more »
Women constantly play the fake abuser card, and often men go through hell to prove their innocence. Plus, the mendacious propaganda bitter wives use is often impossible to disprove. It would be like me asking you to prove that your father didn’t father a child you don’t know about: something impossible to prove.
The reason there is such a high rate of false allegations by women who want custody/alimony is. “False allegations by women in contentious divorces, = huge upside and zero risk or downside” In NYS, since 2009 Not a single woman has been prosecuted for making false absue allegations. Then when you consider the perks offered exclusively to women who make allegations… 1. Financial perks: there are many eager organizations catered to women who say they were abused. The perks include weekly cash stipend, skipping to the front of the line On the Sec8 and Links list. Sponsored shopping sprees. Free… Read more »
Its almost impossible for woman in the modern legal court system nowadays to bring forward false allegations against men. Abuse men’s favorite word from my very unfortunate past experience is false allegations.
Maybe you’re right and its good to hear actually and I based it on the men I know and heard of though it does occur. “False allegations” is a word abusers use as long as the truth doesn’t come out so its tricky.
The false allegation is the implication that all men are like the few you describe in your post. The implication that no man is ever actually telling the truth in such cases, is what is one of the worst and most false allegations that can be made. Another which is at least equally false and horrendous, is the false allegation that men make excuses not to go to courts, because the courts are actually ‘fair’ to men. Just someone says they are supposedly so fair, does not make it true and the mens rights movement (look it up) has thousands… Read more »
I’ve heard of such cases where the man claims (even to their little innocent kids) their ex wife is alienating the kids from them. In reality they do not want to spend most of their time with them and than blame it on their ex wife who still sends the kids to them despite badmouthing her to the kids. These men will than say they don’t want to go to court bec it favors woman’s “false allegations” when the reality it does not work that way and they have even gotten away with committing horrific acts of abuse.
While it’s true that 90% of divorces are preventable, and 2 out of three cases of alleged abuse turns out to be mud slinging and preemptive paranoia by one spouses thinking that if she doesn’t vilify first, then he will go-public with her issues and embarrass her to friends and family. The solution is prevention, prevention prevention! Before you meet a shiduch date, it’s critical that you do a thourough background check, LISTEN, if you find out that he/she was routinely abused by someone very close to them, and or that his/her parents had a high conflict marriage and or… Read more »
Leaving an abusive spouse takes much courage and strength.
Instead of judging the victims,show love and support for her/his bravery.
In our communities especially,before a woman leaves her abuser she has consulted with professionals in abuse and addiction etc., has counseled with rabbis and family, and thought and chewed over her plan over and over again .
To judge a woman who has endured trauma and pain ,and make light of her pain and anguish by thinking her allegations aren’t real or worthy of leaving is cruel.
Only when one’s sister ,daughter or friend goes through this, does one begin to understand the ramifications of abuse etc.
The stories are so traumatic and sick that they are truly hard to believe until one hear’s from the victim herself.
Your comments stem from ignorance.
Unfortunately,there is much addiction,dysfunction and abuse in our communities.
I suggest you read up on it.
I wouldn’t want to be thedaughter of amother who doesn’t believe her anguish if these instances come up.
My parents got divorced when I was just 2 years old. My mom, who is emotionally unstable, falsely accused my father of abusing me. While he was able to get joint custody, my mom then relocated, and she made it impossible for him to visit. At first, as a very impressionable tween and teen, I was really angry at my father; after all if my mom said that he did all these things, I assumed her to be right. I didn’t see my father for years. But as I matured, I began to see through the charade, and have reestablished… Read more »
Thank you Rabbi. My child was abused by a selfish addict and we all suffered and continue to suffer!!! G-d should just bless our child and the grandchildren. This is even after the divorce and the addicts parents are enablers! Shame on them
Does one get the family of the addicted spouse on board to get their child or relative help and accept they are ill and have ruined their home, abused their spouse n children. No financial support n real suffering.
Please help
I meant to address number 16. My profound and most sincere apologies to number 17. To #32 I am happy that you had at least some kind of options to choose from. I am not saying or suggesting that any of them was very good. But at least you did have some kind of choice between a bad option and and even worse one, and ultimately it seems you came out of it and can now at least try and make the best of the rest of your life, Eem Yertze H-sh-m. That however does not prove that the system… Read more »
I have been where you are – You WILL survive, but you need to speak to people who really care and understand right away . Please start with the Shalom Task Force Hotline: 718 337 3700 or 888 883 2323 or call Rabbi Jacobson directly at 347 913 3322.
I went through unbearable traumatic abuse. I went through the divorce process and learned the legal system works very fairly for both men and woman. I never filed any charges against my ex husband for his abuse. He got away with what noone will ever know because I didn’t want to go through with it again at that point and just wanted to get a gett and get divorced.
To those saying that staying in a marriage for the sake of the children is the better option, I say this (from experience): children need to be cared for!!! If a mother is going to be in a position where constant abuse puts her either in physical danger, or drains her so mentally and emotionally that she will be unavailable to her children, the children will suffer much more damage!! While of course divorce is not ideal, no one asks to be put in a situation of abuse. There actuall is no choice then!!! Sometimes, one is caught between “a… Read more »
The moment we start justifying divorce with claims of abuse, misery etc. Any woman or man can find an excuse to get out of their marriage… Did you know that our divorce rates are just as high as those of the mainstream…? We are now close to 50% divorce rate… can you explain that? Every other woman got abused? Every other man is an alcoholic? Please… something is seriously and fundamentally wrong.
Abuse, addiction and mental illness are different factors that can ruin a marriage. At the same time someone who is abused for so long can end up traumatized with mental health and addiction issues.
In a case I am very familiar with the wife is the abuser and she got away with it. He’s a good father and provider, and SHE, got away with it because they don’t listen to or help the men in abusive situations!
Who is the 90 percent of the people you speak of?
That’s simply ridiculous.
Most women that I know left their spouses because of abuse(physical,emotional,mental)addiction,substance abuse and alcoholism.
Get your facts straight and speak to more divorcees.
Stop spouting lunacy.
Why do you make it out like the abusers are always men? I recently saw on a non Jewish personals ad (since I am single and often Jews post in such places and many of them do not post on a regular Frum website, even though in some cases, they may be open to becoming frum or are already frum in some cases) a post by a woman who said she was frum and looking for someone even though she was already married. It seems if it turned out that she was in an abusive relationship then she would be… Read more »
There needs to be people that are honest and impartial .
That will not stand up for abusers for political gain.
Im in abusive marriage but I’m afraid to leave since I have no faith in the system .
I’m emotionally drained from when I wake up till I go to sleep .
I wonder how many years of my life i’ve been shortened .
I wonder if I will survive
To # 6. I only read till your comment and I stopped because my problem is exactly that the rabbis pick and choose what to talk about they are very good with giving speeches when it comes to practical help those who seriously need the help it is extremely hard to find a rabbi who will really be caring and devoted and truly want to help. I find that when it’s a woman looking for help good luck to them . I once ask Rabbi how to fix my transmission on my car he looked at me very strangely and… Read more »
Fear of what your spouse will say about you is keeping you stuck in your marriage.
If nothing else, maybe this webcast and the blogs that go with it will help the community know that when there’s a divorce, and one spouse smears and smears the other in the community — or even both smear each other — please know to see it as it is — vengeful tactics of hate, not necessarily fact! I, for one, would leave my hellish marriage if only I knew that my spouse’s slander efforts would not succeed at dragging my name through the mud with lies, and if I knew for sure that the posting of “information” that is… Read more »
EXCELLENT! took the words right out of my mouth
Being a child from a divorced marriage, I can say first-hand that one should never shot down divorce, yet not encourage it either. One MUST get help and NEVER be afraid what will happen if they go get help, because Hashem WILL help! If one makes a keili and goes for help (sometimes one has to go get help without the other spouse knowing, which can be hard, but ‘if there’s a will, there’s a way’) then you will SURELY see things falling into place- open your mouth and speak, don’t fear and say the truth, even if you think/know… Read more »
This subject always lends itself to insanity, the good points notwithstanding, and let’s separate (pardon the pun) the two. Not keeping hilchos niddah does indeed bring destruction. It’s very powerful and the Gemara says so. But the callousness in encouraging divorce is an even worse plague. Everyone recognizes that if someone legitimately fears for their lives or lives in violent terror. But these are rare. Far less rare is the insanity displayed in not just one comment in this thread. A parent writes that he wrote in many times because he’s walking on eggshells but receives answers to stay and,… Read more »
I am so glad I divorced my ex wife. After I got married, I found out that she suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder. It was really difficult to live with her, and after 6 punishing years which crushed my spirit, and infidelity on her part, we parted ways. Sadly, she did not take the advice Rabbi Jacobson lays out here of moving on, and like the commenter in #14, she accused me of being a danger to my daughter. While the Office of Child Safety closed and sealed the false claims very quickly, she relocated and brought them up again.… Read more »
Wow! Sounds like a horrible situation! Why don’t you give your wife a gett??
Ahhh! So refreshing to hear a voice of reason,support and empathy for the victim. In order to know about abuse ,one must be informed. Today one can read and get all the information one needs to figure out the criteria for abuse.There are many online resources, clips and books covering the topic. Many people don’t know about DV because they are uninformed.If you have a family member suffering from any form of abuse,it is important to get enlightened.Fast. Victims of abuse need support and love. Not believing the pain and trauma of the victim, is excruciatingly painful for the victim.… Read more »
If someone is physically or emotionally abusive, divorce is the first resort.
The Rebbe and the Torah do NOT want a victim of abuse to continuously be harmed for the sake of children.
I know a Rabbi whose wife refused to be intimate with him. He told me he would divorce her but can’t because he wants a good Shudduch for their daughter.
How twisted and sad.
Thank Hashem, I found the most amazing and loving woman in the world.
Think for youself, don’t let yourself be abused for your children’s sake or any other person.
Nice way of making your point and using rabbi jj words for some real and true situations the rabbi for sure did not have in mind because then he would be offending the poor women when so many times the situation is just as you so eloquently said
Actually you are not correct. I was in an abusive situation for many years and I thought I would just not fight it. In retrospect, after I let HER do whatever she wanted, she still had me falsely arrested and put in jail and orders of protection put on me and tried to not even let me see my kids. In hindsight, whenever someone asks me about what I went through I tell them the one lesson I learned is to never tolerate abuse. That does not mean so whatever you want. But it does mean drawing lines and standing… Read more »
With reference to your paragraph beginning with the words “with real empathy…………… Yes shame on all people who cover up for perpertrators and abusers, evidence of which was very much publicised in the tragic case of young mother Beth Alexander in Vienna!!
Two points he made that really resonate: 1) “Can an abusive marriage be saved? If the one with the problem – mental illness, abusive tendencies, addiction – acknowledges the struggle and sincerely works to correct the situation, then perhaps the marriage can be salvaged. However, if they don’t get the help, it can be a very tough situation.” 2) “Disgust for the vindictiveness of the abuser…” His words! So true!! Problems begin when the abusing wife refuses to do #1 and instead obsessively blames the poor sap who married her without knowing how mentally disordered she really was. This leads… Read more »
what do you mean by ask the rebbe
The rebbe usually referred these questions to rabbonim
You should be aware that when you stay in an abusive marriage, your children are most likely to grow up and allow themselves to be abused or they will be abusers themselves
When there are children involved. Getting divorced is no simple matter. It takes 2 to tango/fight. so don’t fight just accept your lot and you will stay married. the rebbe always said you can never be 100 percent right, so find out the 5 or 10 percent that is wrong with you, and realize that this is your tikun. Im talking about most situations, obviously i do
agree with some severe situations that warrant divorce, but most times its not the correct thing to do.
Unique to Judaism is the area of abuse with regard to taharas hamishpacha. Either with the husband not respecting halacha during certain times or perhaps a wife who is not careful in following the halchas pertaining to a Jewish woman. There should be a special hotline to handle abuse with regard to this issue as well as education in taharas hamishpacha classes to try to prevent it. Sometimes it is the matter of a woman needing herbs or other medical help to deal with medical issues that can strain a relationship.
If Hashem, makes it possible for a man and a Jewish woman to get all the way to the chuppah, it is holy and special and it is worth saving.
Just because the Abeishter gives us a way out, doesn’t mean we should take it, especially if there are kids involved.
Where there is a desire to make it work, anything can be fixed…otherwise Hashem wouldn’t put you in the situation
seeing a family member being abused and suffering, do I give my advice,and say get yourself out when young childrenae around? then again living with him might be easier then divorcing a guy who will go at great lengths to make her life even more miserable.
since there is quite a few abusers in shul, when was the last time Rabbi Jacobson called out any of the abusers in shul? another question. Why is is always assumed the wife is the abused??
Asking seriously and not judging.
What does it mean that Rebbe does not want you to divorce.
for this very accurate, informative, sensitive, and supportive article.
Rabbi Twerski can help you find the right person.
And the Truth makes a world of difference for a tortured spouse! EVERYONE should listen to this tape – especially happily married couples, Rabbis, and Mashpiim who give out harmful advice while remaining “clueless” – R Jacobson’s own word – about the realities of abuse. This is it Chevra – it is Erev Moshiach and real people are suffering and hiding it won’t work anymore BH. We owe it to Am Yisroel to learn & speak the truth, even when it is horribly painful & almost unbelivable. Rabbi Jacobson deserves to be praised and blessed for this very brave tape… Read more »