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Sunday, 21 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 26, 2019

    “I Have ADD, & I Want to Learn”

    From the COLlive Inbox: "I have many friends from all over, who like myself - are known with one label – 'ADD/ADHD' - and I would like to speak out for all my friends who I feel have been mistreated. Full Story

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    kol ha kavod
    Guest
    kol ha kavod

    you are a hundred percent right.if we would really feel and appreciate the value of every bochur’l, it would be a very different scene.the Torah is big enough for each one of them to find someething that appeals to them,halocha,chassidus,on 100 differnet levels to suit all-torah is for ALL

    Bravo
    Guest
    Bravo
    Run and hide
    Guest
    Run and hide

    I agree but not too many people running yeshivas, mestiftas, and zal will also and even if they do the will say you can’t change the system.

    Solutions?
    Guest
    Solutions?

    I have a son who fits this description. He is homeschooling now. I would like to know if anyone can recommend a mesivta that will work with bochurim. He does not have social or behavioral problems. He does not have problems with frumkeit. He needs a yeshiva that will work with his learning style-more auditory and less text based. Does such a place exist.

    nice job
    Guest
    nice job

    Great analogy. thanks for pointing it out.

    So glad you wrote this!
    Guest
    So glad you wrote this!

    You’re very right! The seasoned mashpiyim and mashpiyos among us are marvelous people who are doing a world of good for many. We now need even more young mashpiyim and mashpiyos because the younger generation is KA”H only growing in numbers and age kayn yirbu, and everyone needs to be able to find a maskpia for themselves that they can relate to. Who is stepping up to fill this important role — will it be you, Reader?

    Until 70 years ago
    Guest
    Until 70 years ago

    Back in Europe you went to cheder and to work,
    If you were a iluy.. A genius than you went off to yeshivah..

    Now the expect everyone to fit into a round box , where only a few are round…and the rest suffer and suffer.

    In LA there is a Lubavitch Moises “jets” that combines Likud hatoirah with learning a trade , it’s the best of both worlds,
    Ignore what everyone else may say, think of what’s best for your. Child

    Why don't you say your full name?
    Guest
    Why don't you say your full name?
    J.e.t.s
    Guest
    J.e.t.s

    Chabad trade school in la

    I commend you for speaking up!
    Guest
    I commend you for speaking up!

    great way to put it may you and your friends and all the bochurim that feel identified find their place in yeshivah and feel accomplished!

    Yasher Koach
    Guest
    Yasher Koach

    What a beautiful article, written by an obviously very tmimusdike bochur. Halevai the mechanchim and menahalim should hear his “dvorim hayotzim min halev” and they will look at bochurim differently when they have trouble concentrating.

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    Thanks for speaking my heart!!!

    Didn't the Rebbe say
    Guest
    Didn't the Rebbe say

    that we should teach at the level where the student is, that if a student does not learn from how you are teaching, then you should go to where he is. (I didn’t hear him say this, but from what I have read, this is what he said.) This is very obvious to me, as I am a successful teacher; however,there are some who are in a teacher role only. They do not have background knowledge of child development or pedagogy. They do not have training with supervision before they enter their field. They are not naturally skilled in the… Read more »

    Dyslexia
    Guest
    Dyslexia

    There is a difference between ADD and dyslexia, there are people who have ADD who went thought the yeshiva system fine, the real issue is when your dyslexic the text based curriculum just doesn’t seem to cater for that at all. I went through the Chabad system did simcha and dyslexic. I didn’t want to be different from anyone else, so became anti social and just wanted to learn my self at my own pace, so no one would see how I learn and think I’m stupid or slow… I would read the subjects I was interested in, I didn’t… Read more »

    True tale
    Guest
    True tale

    This bochur’s story may be true or false, but all the other real boys suffering from the same but sad story can tell you the same. My youngest son, 17, has weak Gemorra skills and we applied to 5 zals and except for one they all said “not accepted” NOT ACCEPTED to a chassidisher bochur who wants to learn but has weak kriah skills but good auditory skills. And the one yeshiva that accepted him- well he doesn’t want to go there because of the bad reputation of the boys there who are not interested in learning. Can someone please… Read more »

    Very well said!
    Guest
    Very well said!

    And isn’t that what Chassidus came to accomplish in the first place? The idea among the lomdim of those days was that only a talmid chacham is a worthwhile Jew, whereas the Baal Shem Tov pointed out that all Jews are equally precious to Hashem, and that the simple person’s Tehillim from the heart is worth at least as much as the ilui’s Shas.

    Wonderful
    Guest
    Wonderful

    This was sincere, honest and eye opening. To #8, you obviously don’t know anything about internet safety, interesting that a bochur who has obviously had his struggles knows more than you. To the author- may you have hatzlacha in spreading this around and changing the world for the better.

    i too have ADD - what does H' want of you!
    Guest
    i too have ADD - what does H' want of you!

    1) Adderal!! had i not tried it since 15 years ago i wouldn’t be able to vouch for it & confidently dismiss the noisy skeptics!! 2) Remeber as Jews, its not about ME ME ME, or what “I want”!! its about what Hashem wants of me! so sit down with your Mashpia & figure out an appropreate & realistic expectation of learning that is right for your unique nature & limitations! you need not live up to another person’s standard! Hashem has only one standard for you! that is to make an effort to be who you “can” be &… Read more »

    You will see much Sayata d'shmaya in consulting a (appropriate) Mentor
    Guest
    You will see much Sayata d'shmaya in consulting a (appropriate) Mentor

    The Rebbeh has many clear guidelines (people often ignore) to obtain the full benifit of “Aseh Lecha Rav”

    many who claim to have a mashpia, actually do not know the subtle guidelines to really be in compliance with the Rebbe’s “Bakasha Nafshis” re All jews to have a personal mentor

    Kol Hakovod
    Guest
    Kol Hakovod

    Thank you

    Jets is upgrading its students standards
    Guest
    Jets is upgrading its students standards

    I know first hand JETS is no longer the last stop,
    Rather they have upgraded their admission Standerds so that chasidisher bochurim too can participate

    can we help?
    Guest
    can we help?

    We have an idea to open a Beis Medrash in Crown Heights where Bochurim could come and learn as they wish. This is not a Yeshiva where everyone has to be on the same page. The Bochurim are able to come and learn any Gemara they want. They are not bound to a curriculum, just like in Kollel where everyone learns what their interested in. Bochurim can learn with a friend or we can pair them up with someone from 770. Obviously there will be set times for Chassidus, Nigle and Halacha. What you will learn, how you will learn,… Read more »

    a new way of learning/the good old way
    Guest
    a new way of learning/the good old way

    We have an idea to open a Beis Medrash in Crown Heights where Bochurim could come and learn as they wish. This is not a Yeshiva where everyone has to be on the same page. The Bochurim are able to come and learn any Gemara they want. They are not bound to a curriculum, just like in Kollel where everyone learns what their interested in. Bochurim can learn with a friend or we can pair them up with someone from 770. Obviously there will be set times for Chassidus, Nigle and Halacha. What you will learn, how you will learn,… Read more »

    Baal Haaboa with ADD
    Guest
    Baal Haaboa with ADD

    Kol Hakavod to te article writer. I plead with everyone to think before they write, especially if they don’t have a disability like ADD, or have a child who does. I have ADD and have two young beautiful children, I worry daily how I’ll be able to teach them. I Boruch Hashem have a decent job, but every day is a struggle. My mind is in a world of its own. The Yeahiva cookie cutter system wasn’t for me. I don’t blame the system as that’s not healthy or productive, but I fear for other people in my position. We… Read more »

    talmid
    Guest
    talmid

    Same issue here. But Rabbi Wagner from toronto was right on the ball.
    I had an issues learning hilchos shabbos… muktzah…. he let my chavrusa and I learn a subject in halacha of our choice…. Rabbi Wagner you saved my “life” and am forever in debt.

    Melbourne
    Guest
    Melbourne

    Yeshiva Gedola in melbourne is a Mainstream Yeshiva with STREAMED Shiurim, from very advanced bochurim to bochurim that can’t read a word. All the Bochurim are like one big family, and there have been hundreds of bochurim that have come out from being a zero to hero. Bochurim who had no interest have come out much better than they ever imagined they could(im one of them!)

    Kol hakavod
    Guest
    Kol hakavod

    Truth speaks for itself

    Neurofeedback
    Guest
    Neurofeedback

    There are many ways to deal with ADD or ADHD and problems with concentrating… One of them that is very effective to open up the mind and regulate the nervous system is training with neurofeedback. Google it and you’ll find all about it. I have trained with it with amazing results… Hatzlocho rabo…

    Why don't you say your full name?
    Guest
    Why don't you say your full name?

    Everyone who writes about this stays annonimous. Fear of being rejected by the mainstream community, and so this unhealthy, abusive system is perpetuated to the misfortune of the many children that suffer through the system and eventually leave to try to salvage any normalicy they may have left. It’s only in such an insulated community that such an atrocity can continue (or in third world countries). There are many advantages in an insulated community but when it comes to perpetuating the abuse of individuals because they don’t “fit” the system, that we know doesn’t necessarily represent the Torah, it resembles… Read more »

    What are you trying to say?
    Guest
    What are you trying to say?

    Are you trying to make excuses “poor me, I’m a victim” or “nasty Mashpia, I’m a victim”? People with ADD can succeed in the system if they are willing to try and overcome their challenges. Including medication, therapies or plain old hard work. I know, I succeeded even though my rebbis in Yeshiva said I was a failure and made my life h@!!. It was very hard, but I stuck with it even though everyone except my parents told me to drop out. I got smicha. I have a great job and a great life. Don’t be a victim, find… Read more »

    How true..
    Guest
    How true..

    i have a friend whose child has similar issues – good, frum, chassidish etc but with difficulties in standard text based learning only . Parents have been told by the principal that they are failing as parents if they do not give their child Ritalin! No trying to accommodate different styles of learning….

    larry
    Guest
    larry

    didnt rabbi heller speak about this teaching one on their level

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    to everyone who has commented and who understands how we as parents of boys like Yitzy feel, when watching our boys struggle.
    to #23 – this is a good idea for older bochurim, but what about bochurim who are younger and need to be in a more structured setting? Any ideas??

    in search!
    Guest
    in search!

    im 18 and not stupid, if i would go to a secular school i might very well be one of the top students, because im quite intelligent, and enjoy learning, but was never taught how to read the “flaming” piece of gemorah!
    the yeshivas need to employ mashpiyim that are young, “in the passport,” and at heart, – they understand bochurim of today, have an out going personality and are not judgemental, the day a yeshiva finds someone like that i think all the bochurim of the whole world will be there!

    A.D.H.D
    Guest
    A.D.H.D

    Attention deficit….. Hey, doughnuts!!

    to #30
    Guest
    to #30

    Good for you and Kol Hakavod. But everyone has ADD on their own level. Not everyone has access to the care you may have received.

    mother of adhd boys
    Guest
    mother of adhd boys

    The problems begin in the early years of school, so by time of mesifta and zal, the bochurim are already struggling. My sons were yelled at since they were 3 years old, shamed in public, etc. That they are still frum is amazing. When the oldest joined Ottawa in its primary year, he quickly fell to the level of the lowest boys due to the social pressure. Schools with special programs are not for the boys who still wish to be ‘system’ bochurim, like the boy described by #15. Thank you #23, but for bochurim who live outside of Crown… Read more »

    to #37
    Guest
    to #37

    I agree with totally – in same position – kid kicked out of school because teacher and principal just didn’t understand him and thought he was causing trouble in class, instead of realising they needed to change the style of teaching to include kids who cannot stay totally focused for 45 mins at a time minimum! These boys needs hands on approach to Torah learning, as well as some text based, to keep their minds focused. The fact that my son is still frum and chassidish is to his credit. And we need a solution fast….

    an "adhd" bochur
    Guest
    an "adhd" bochur

    i can only really say thank you for wording that the way you did. ive been screaming those words in my head for the last seven years. theres a reason in the last seven years i’ve been through SIX yeshivas. thats not the way someone should go through any “system.” so again thank you

    revolution
    Guest
    revolution

    I’ve seen children being destroyed even though they tried to “stick it out” and work hard. Maybe because they tried to “stick it out” and were not removed in time from an abusive, insensitive system, they were put in a vulnerable position where thier abuse continued. Someone has to take the initiative to create a different system. We as Baalei Teshuvah, who tried so hard to fit in, have mostly lost our initiative to make another revolution. We already made a revolution in our lives when we changed them to be shomer mitzvos, a step that put us in a… Read more »

    Use ALL your talents
    Guest
    Use ALL your talents

    There is another school that is trade and learning in PA (unless it closed.) But here is another way to look at it: At one time, the only ones going on to full learning were the “best of the best” ahem, I mean the “round pegs that fit round holes” or…maybe… the ones with no imagination, and no ability to ask new questions, the ones content to sit and have all the answers and questions come out of the books in front of them….in other words, good memorizers. Feh, for that we have recorders and computers. HsShem doesn’t want a… Read more »

    to #35
    Guest
    to #35

    ive heard that joke but that was absolutely rude and disgusting of you to write that now. here people are trying to come up with ways of helping people with add/adhd and you go and make jokes out of it?!! do you have no sense?!

    ADD levels
    Guest
    ADD levels

    To 30:

    ADD varies in severity. Some (maybe you?) are fortunate in the sense that they can focus for a short while (few minutes) before tuning out. So those spurts of minutes can accumulate up to a success story, B”H.
    Others can’t concentrate at all! These cases need more attention and special care for them to get by.

    well done
    Guest
    well done

    i totaly agree!!!! i dont really have anything to do with that whole system, im a girl, but i totaly agree!!!!!

    Pretoria has tailor made program
    Guest
    Pretoria has tailor made program

    The Yeshiva in Pretoria is catering specifically to bochrim who need more than just being expected to sit and learn in Chavruso for most of the day. Shiurim most of the day in a variety of subjects, longer breaks during the day, with an exciting incentive program, where bochrim can earn outings etc. It is a full day learning program, but in a more relaxed atmosphere.

    its a sad system
    Guest
    its a sad system

    most of what you said was 100% true…and good for you to speak up and say it. However, i am not sure of how that would be a solution. Maybe their should separate schools with a completely different structure that doesn’t expect the boys to sit for hours (even if it is a subject they connect to)

    # 8 - never ceases to amaze me...
    Guest
    # 8 - never ceases to amaze me...

    Everytime a writer brings up solid issues affecting the Holy Yidden who follow Hashem and Moshe rabbenu of our time, and only seek to live in yahadus, some nasty mean person is always commenting, ‘say your name’ !! You intolerant boor, shame on you, you want to shut up any free speech, so that we can look at the problems and hopefully find some solutions. You types, who crush free speech, are afraid of the truth and want to pretend all is well when there is rot to be cleansed out of our crumbling system. yasher Koach to COL live… Read more »

    ADHD Child now thriving
    Guest
    ADHD Child now thriving

    Should note that sometimes these things work themselves out with the right amount of guidance and patience on the part of the Hanhola, as well as perseverance. My son, diagnosed with ADHD, is now thriving and is a positive example to others.

    O C D
    Guest
    O C D

    Another ignored problem,

    Girls, too
    Guest
    Girls, too

    My daughter is a wonderful girl in every single way. She is bright, hardworking, kind, talented and capable and a real balebasta.. But she has dyslexia. Because of that textual learning is difficult for her and she struggles with text based learning. She could not get into a semjnary of her choice and was otherwise discriminated against when it came to teaching jobs in our local school. The relief came when she finally got married and is doing amazing on shlichus and is using her amazing talents to ker a velt. Baruch Hashem, she held out, but during those years,… Read more »

    to # 4
    Guest
    to # 4

    sadly there is no such yeshiva we tried a few different ones they all promise ”individualized” learning. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR CHILD WILL BE CARED FOR BY ”PROFESSIONALS” HE WILL BE PUT IN A ROOM WITH AT LEAST 30-40 OTHERS HE WILL GET LOST. THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH MANY OF OUR CHILDREN. with some training these” mashpiem” can learn how to help these boys and be excepting of the boys for who they are as people, and help them with this challenge they KNOW they have with some= TLC TENDER LOVE AND CARE.… Read more »

    my chasidish boy went
    Guest
    my chasidish boy went

    excellent school in lancaster PA , learning and vocational, the boys really learn a lot there if they want to, its a pretty petty but well worth it, Worth looking into it , not a lubavitch school but the shliach teaches there, but was a great school .

    Dear # 47
    Guest
    Dear # 47

    I elaborated what I meant in #29. I think it’s a subject we can all discuss openly. We’re not in communist Russia Baruch Hashem. We can come up with solutions without fearing “being caught” הגיע הזמן Ofra Baum

    “this is the seder, and if you don’t like it, leave the yeshiva!”
    Guest
    “this is the seder, and if you don’t like it, leave the yeshiva!”

    +1

    i got this too much growing up

    TO NUMBER 4:
    Guest
    TO NUMBER 4:

    I KNOW OF A GOOD MESIVTA CALLED HAMESIVTA IN LUBAVITCHER YESHIVA ON OCEAN PARKWAY AND AVENUE H, GOOGLE THEM !!! HATZLOCHA !!!

    to sum it up
    Guest
    to sum it up

    Chinuch line’arim al pi darkum.
    Teaching youngsters is to be according to their path/speed/depth/interest (at any given moment).

    A different light
    Guest
    A different light

    After reading almost all the comments here i want to put it in a different light….a very positive light… I am a young woman in my 20s who yes has ADHD and a few language issues. Does that stop me? No! Despite having grades always fluctuating, i worked hard on both social skills and focusing and i ended up becoming a health professional – one that can help others succeed. Everyone tends to look at AD/HD as a disability…it is NOT! it is only a disability if you let it win. But if you work extremely hard, be a genuinely… Read more »

    Extremely TRUE!
    Guest
    Extremely TRUE!

    BS”D
    you are great! Emes 🙂

    to #57
    Guest
    to #57

    BH you made it. But girls don’t have to sit in yeshiva from 7am to 9 pm trying to learn gemorah that’s way beyond her current ability, and with a “mashpia” who tells you that if you can’t sit and learn all day, you might as well drop out and be a “bum” LO ALEINU. that’s what they told my sons. BH they were fighters, and didn’t frei out. But they have a horrible taste for learning now. We need – for every boy, not just the ones who learn differently – a totally revamped yeshivah system. My solution? Momentarily… Read more »

    try Pittsburgh!
    Guest
    try Pittsburgh!

    A chassidisher bochur with add can make it through Pittsburgh, the hannholo there are very good at individuality! With a plus of 0 mashke tolerance (some may look at that as a con)
    And I know good boys that came out of pittsburgh totally changed for the good

    more subjects
    Guest
    more subjects

    I feel the bochurim are missing a lot of the curricullum in
    limudai kodesh that girls learn. Many bochurim would love to learn nach, historia, biur tefillah etc. I would love to see a yeshiva fo bochurim that offer these sujects too

    Bais Hatalmud
    Guest
    Bais Hatalmud

    The program we would like to run will start off in Crown Heights. (sorry no dorm for now:( The Bais Hatalmud is geared to Bochurim who want to learn any time during the day. Maybe people who need a less busy environment, or for people who are busy part time but still want to learn some of the time. Also for people who want to learn more or don’t enjoy the busy zal atmosphere. We will work with bochurim and help them with their learning. if we get a group of boys who want more structure we are ready to… Read more »

    to 51
    Guest
    to 51

    YG in melburne is SERIOUSLY individualised learning. Theres 45 bochurim in the whole yeshiva and there are 4 streams! I’ve seen such amazing success from that place!
    the lower streams focus ONLY on reading and translating, and they learn with shluchim to help them out EVERY SINGLE DAY!

    bravo #41
    Guest
    bravo #41

    can’t thank you enough for saying what you did

    Yup
    Guest
    Yup

    Hi all there. Same boat. I beleive that boys from age 16 with issues all need part time learning part time trading school. Unfortunately if they exist they close for lack of funding. The govt does pay for individual with ld if school is certified. So how about constructing that. Each boy needs official diagnosis as ld learning disabled like dyslexia or ADHD. It al boils down there. My sons 16. Brilliant and home. Govt wants pay for school but it ain’t exist.

    Yup
    Guest
    Yup

    I beleive some people in the field should open a farm somewhere on a mountaintop should be directed under a principle with degree for special Ed Program should be half day individualized limide kodesh and secular studies. Other half for farming and all kinds of vocational. Training Like construction. Electrician. Mechanics computers. Culinary. And the likes. If boys have an official diagnose each boy can get funding from the state if school is certified as learning disabled center or school. Also as a teen at risk prevention center. We simply can’t afford to lose our future leaders to the streets

    X