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Sunday, 18 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 21, 2019

    “I Blame the Messenger”

    Op-Ed: The demands by the group Yaffed to investigate Yeshivas are not to improve them, but to disrupt and destroy them, writes Ezra Friedlander. Full Story

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    Erroneous historical facts
    Guest
    Erroneous historical facts

    The Netziv closed the Volozhiner yeshiva due to the Czarist regime. Communism in Russia began in 1917. The Zemach Zedek was instrumental in fighting the Haskala movement over the education of the the Jewish .

    Malarkey
    Guest
    Malarkey

    We don’t know what is in the minds and hearts of those involved in Yaffed. We do know that there is a huge welfare crisis in the Frum community. Yaffed believes that this problem is partially because of lack of education.

    Since Yeshivas are change-resistant, the only way to incorporate this education plan is to force them via the DOE, much like Affirmative Action in the 1960’s.

    Comparing the learning of basic English, math and science to the communist propaganda that the commies tried to brainwash children with is absolutely disgusting.

    Mamosh
    Guest
    Mamosh

    Very well written

    Don't give up hope!
    Guest
    Don't give up hope!

    I personally have a solution that will slowly leek thru to the appropriate addresses, having gone through a not-so-great yeshiva education and then a secular law school. Keep up your spirits! There are many ways to respect our traditions and still enhance our educational programs so as to satisfy the criticizers, without using collective blame and emotional arguments. Am Yisrael Chai.

    Shaina blum
    Guest
    Shaina blum

    What did Mr moster do wrong??? You failed to mention ONE thing that he did wrong. You have. O merit in your argument

    Yeah!
    Guest
    Yeah!

    Right on! Chinuch al taharas hakodesh!

    Upsetting me :(
    Guest
    Upsetting me :(

    This is over the top. What are they thinking.Do they want us t do half day english and half hebrew? These are our schools. I went to http://www.yaffed.org. Is this site Jewish?
    I wrote Comment #3 on NY To Probe 39 Brooklyn Yeshivas.

    1892?  Communists?
    Guest
    1892? Communists?

    BH

    OUCH! I am sure he was NOT comparing the DOE to the Communists. But, he certainly was comparing Yaffed to Haskala!!!

    And that may be a fair comparison. But, you lose your credibility when you state history incorrectly.

    Sounds like haskala
    Guest
    Sounds like haskala

    Plain and simple it’s like the Haskala movement is repeating itself.

    2015 yesvetzkia
    Guest
    2015 yesvetzkia

    That’s who caused the frierdiker rebbe so much problems, this is the yesvetzkia of today.

    shul
    Guest
    shul

    why is it one goes into any shul in crown heights and theirs a handful of fundraisers,shnoores…if they had an education they wouldn;t need to???

    Rediculous
    Guest
    Rediculous

    This is well overdue. American schools are subpar in general compared to the rest of the developed world, and the fact that yeshivas don’t even give that much is truly criminal. I’m in my early 30s and have recently watched virtually all my friends and their husbands going through crises, trying to figure out how on earth they can get a job that will support their families on the non-education they received. It’s a travesty and needs to change.

    Facts
    Guest
    Facts

    Mr Moster comes from a fine very frum large chasidick family he was not happy being frum and went off the derech now he blaims the world for his problems and he’s out to get everyone frum he is not doing this to help look him up. And I’m sure the other “community members” who signed the letter asking for this investigation are just like him.

    Agree!!
    Guest
    Agree!!

    This is all very well written
    Lets not nit-pick-
    U get the idea…

    Government subsidies
    Guest
    Government subsidies

    He’s right in a world where any school is being funded exclusively by tuition. If the school accepts funding it needs to accept the conditions that comes with the money. Complaining about to much tuitions costs because he has too many kids? Is this guy kidding! Why should I subsidize his or anyone’s poor decision to have children they cannot monetarily and more importantly emotionally take care of. You want to be left alone – stop taking government subsidies. It disgusts me how frum people have this attitude that they are better than everyone – not just non Jews even… Read more »

    Ad Hominem
    Guest
    Ad Hominem

    Please. Frum communities in the US today do not survive because of the “wholesome purity of our chinuch system”; they survive because of modern day Socialism. Do you really believe that this system would be sustainable if every frum family had to pay the full freight for health insurance and healthcare, food, daycare, housing, tuition, etc. Nonsense. Considering this reality, the state has a right to demand that these schools – which they also subsidize through free busing, lunches, Head Start, disability payments etc – teach children the basics so that you don’t end up with hand-out recipients in perpetuity.… Read more »

    People in need of an Editor
    Guest
    People in need of an Editor

    Guys, I am reading all your spelling mistakes. Unfortunately someone in YAFFED’s camp can use these to prove his point. B”H nowadays there are places like Touro that offer vocational training and secular remediation for those leaving yeshiva. Probably a kollel guy has to make that decision, and resulting transition, earlier in the marriage, so that he will be gainfully employed by the time his family, IY”H, grows. Part of the problem is waiting until he has six kids & thousands of dollars in debt before taking action. While I am ambivalent about the responsibility of a yeshiva to offer… Read more »

    yossi
    Guest
    yossi

    I read your article, and I can understand your point to not taint the beauty of limudai kodesh. BUT, if you have 1000 chasidishe families,most of them struggle, the husbands depend on social services, lower rents, loans, or live from check to check, are at the mercy of a job at B and H (not to downplay B and H) and so on, the overall picture is, most chasidishe men are not taught a healthy secular studies for them to gain a healthier collage or universaty. Or even specific training and education. No, I am not saying every one is… Read more »

    statement
    Guest
    statement

    My comment is totally off topic but i was verry in awe of the sentencce “my wife and i”. its not common today – keep it up! also regarding the topic the Rebbe said al taharas hakodesh- THIS is the bottom line!

    Based on reality
    Guest
    Based on reality

    Didn’t the Rebbe also instruct the skill
    School in Kfar Chabad?

    Re: 17
    Guest
    Re: 17

    I’m truly impressed of your vocabulary and skill of articulating your thoughts so eloquently into the written word.

    Rebbe's view
    Guest
    Rebbe's view

    I understand the bitterness of men with no marketable skills upon marriage or further. But learning secular studies or skills when young is like teaching a 10 year-old drivers ed. He should be taught these skills when mature intellectually and can plan his future. I am not advocating hiding your head in the sand, but you guys are really golus minded, a little more emunas tzadikim. Chinuch al taharas hakodesh when young, to bring moshiach.

    Shliach in the World
    Guest
    Shliach in the World

    The arguments that Frum jewery is the only community that takes welfare is a farce and is antisemitic.

    As a shliach in a relatively wealthy community, I know many single moms, divorced people, drug addicts, down on their luck Jewish families and others who are struggling horribly financially – most of whom received college or graduate education.
    Secular education is NOT a panacea that will help you. It is fraught with horrible side effects!!!!

    Messenger, who cares?
    Guest
    Messenger, who cares?

    Circle the wagons, why don’t we? The ppl in YAFAD were all educated in these schools, why are they not qualified to voice their opinions on how lousy the education is? The author’s arguments are poor. He recognizes the issues exists and pretty much admits that it will never be addressed internally because yeshivas will always be underfunded. I wasn’t a big fan of YAFAD b/c I thought these matters should be corrected internally. I now support the organization b/c I now realize our leaders will not fix it until they are forced do. Much hatzlachah to YAFAD and I… Read more »

    Watch the video of the Rebbe and Rav Kahana
    Guest
    Watch the video of the Rebbe and Rav Kahana

    @24 “Messenger who cares?” This is a shameful argument and can only be said while hidden in comment-land.

    The motivations behind this organization are not holy. The goal is abandon the archaic Yiddishkeit as we know it, for a more 2.0 approach.

    When is it ok to support the Samech-Mem? Can we support someone who wants to destroy Yiddishkeit even a little bit?

    Ashreinu Mah Tov Chelkeinu.

    You're dreaming
    Guest
    You're dreaming

    I went through the public school system and university. If you think that the secular public school system gives you skills needed to succeed YOU ARE DREAMING.

    Any individual that doesn’t mind to stay ignorant and illiterate will fail in life no matter what courses are offered in school.

    If anything, the skills my kids get at OT will serve them much better through life. The **skills** that they’re supposedly missing can be caught up within a few weeks of study, should it ever come to that…

    To number 23
    Guest
    To number 23

    Who ever ever argued that Frum Jewery (sic) are the only community that takes welfare? The introduction of straw-man arguments peppered with personal anecdotes, is not exactly compelling. Nor is the rush to whip out the “Anti-Semitic” card at every turn. And speaking of education, part of the problem here is math — or the lack thereof. While it may be true that some people who are not frum are also on welfare, frum dependency on taxpayer generosity is grossly disproportionate to the general society. Likewise, it may be true that some people with a proper education are flipping hamburgers,… Read more »

    Pinchos Woolstone
    Guest
    Pinchos Woolstone

    The push to introduce higher quality secular education into Yeshivos will continue and will gain momentum.
    Each community will respond according to its demographic, or changing demographic.
    The actions of disaffected ex Charedim will do little beyond cause frustration, resentment and will not be productive.
    At this time, there are Yeshivos which offer a full secular program, those which offer a basic program and those which offer no program; parents have the prerogative to choose the approach which best fits their weltanschauung.
    As the process evolves the institutions in the main will modify their approach.

    ???
    Guest
    ???

    If they feel that they can do better than they are fully capable of making their own school

    This is a joke...
    Guest
    This is a joke...

    Most NYC Public School students couldn’t read or write English (or spell) if their life depended on it.

    Blaming Yeshivos for someones failure to read or write is a scam.

    If they never read english, let them open any of the thousands of English books we have published and start familiarizing themselves with the language.

    Anyone who doesn’t know how to read and write can blame only themselves, or English for being such a counter-intuitive language. But they certainly can’t blame anyone else for their failure to PICK UP A BOOK (any book) AND READ!!!

    Refuoh Shileimoh.

    concerned parent
    Guest
    concerned parent

    the efforts Yaffed are clearly Mesirah by any definition in Halacha. Additionally, the true Jewish leaders of ALL previous generations risked their lives to keep secular influences out of our education system. Any secular knowledge acquired by my children happened totally outside Yeshiva schedules and was minimized to include only that which might assist in their future financial requirements. interference by this organization would bring much unwanted secular “education” (read propaganda and heresy) into our Yeshivas, in addition to anything that may be necessary.

    to#30
    Guest
    to#30

    Don’t make things up. Where are you getting these facts from?

    What can be done to battle these troublemakers?
    Guest
    What can be done to battle these troublemakers?

    Is there a way we can promote our Torah true principles in the face of these misfits?

    Running away from the real issue
    Guest
    Running away from the real issue

    The writer neglects the most obvious charge. Yaffed wouldn’t exist if not for the failures of the yeshiva system. Own up to that before you condemn proponents of change.

    Seems to me
    Guest
    Seems to me

    Believe it or not, there was a time when the Jewish world did not depend on government money to provide our own children with a Jewish education. There are a couple of colleges in the US that made the decision that they did not want the government telling them what and how they could and could not teach. So they decided to stop asking for or taking government money. Voila! They were free to do things as they saw fit! It is not easy to function without government money. But there is historical precedent for this, i.e., before the government… Read more »

    Not shayach to Crown Heights or Chabad!!!
    Guest
    Not shayach to Crown Heights or Chabad!!!

    This whole issue should not concern Crown Heights or Chabad in general as Boruch hashem we have a Rebbe who has taught us not to be cut off from the world but transform it.

    They (BP & Williamsburg) have this issue because they never focused on reaching out beyond their Daled Amos.

    Whether you become a shliach or not, if you were raised in Chabad you should have the tools to not only navigate this world but to try to make a Dirah Batachtonim

    facts
    Guest
    facts

    #1 it’s Hashem that provides and sustains all man #2 Hashem created the world for the yiddin to serve him and study Torah #3 the Rebbe rights many times exactly how we are to educate are children altras hakodesh only and by doing so Hashem will provide and we should not listen to what the world says that if you don’t education you kids thay won’t even be able to polish shoes for a living[ we have to remember this is what paroh said about the girls you should let them live Rebbe explains that you should education them the… Read more »

    To #37
    Guest
    To #37

    The Rebbe “rights”?

    You can’t spell the word “writes” and you are lecturing about education?

    how about education?
    Guest
    how about education?

    Instead of denying kids for not being up to your standards, why don’t you focus more on educating and inspiring kids to be up to par? Isn’t that what the school is for? Are you in the business of just preserving chassidiskite/ frumkite or are you hear to teach and inspire kids to want to grow?

    To #36
    Guest
    To #36

    Give me a break.

    Shlichus comes with a special koach from the Rebbe. Any Shliach who believes otherwise does not belong on Shlichus altogether. Shlichus is the exception, NOT the rule. In other words, DESPITE their poor education, they are able to succeed.

    As for the 99% who do not go on Shlichus, the vast majority are left with an inability to provide for a large family without turning to welfare and making “shtick”.

    I don't understand why massering would ever be the answer
    Guest
    I don't understand why massering would ever be the answer

    The Christians have no problem giving their kids a secular education from their perspective. Why can’t lehavdel elef havdalus do the same. There already is a book called “our people” and it covers almost all of global/world history. Now we need more Jewish textbooks that hit standard guidelines without compromising yiddishkeit.

    @15 every child Is a brocha!
    Guest
    @15 every child Is a brocha!

    EVERY child is a blessing from Hashem first and foremost! Your a fool! What type of attitude is this? Noone is asking you to support anyone’s children! Also “affordability” is a very loose term! Parnassa comes -goes sometimes more sometimes less, a child is a brocha that the parents have in THIS world AND the next! Woman in addition have a limited time frame as to when they can even have them! Every child comes with their own brocha they bring to their family and the community at large! How DARE you even hint that one should limit their family… Read more »

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