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Monday, 12 Shevat, 5781
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How Much Should You Charge a Shliach?

Rabbi Mendel Itzinger, Director of Igud Mesivtos V'Yeshivos Lubavitch, responds to a Chabad bochur who asks whether he should go with another Bochur to a Shliach to help with Chanuka Mivtzoim even though the Shliach is unwilling to pay. Full Story

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Was a bocher
November 30, 2020 9:59 pm

I have been taken advantage of a good handful of shluchim. (To say the least) Now as a fineh yingerman I have a very negative attitude about it.

Same
Reply to  Was a bocher
November 30, 2020 10:26 pm

Same experience.

Depends how you come in
Reply to  Same
December 2, 2020 3:55 am

Opposite experience. I was as a bochur by many, many shluchim. In the US, South America, Europe and more… Some have given me a tip at the end some no. I have given the best of my self by all of them, I wasn’t being taken advantage of, I was developing my own faculty of devoting my self to holy tasks. Being now a father bh, I would encourage my son later (the oldest he’s 8) to ibergebn himself for by a Shliach with in mind to help the rebbe’s work. It’s polishing the person to be a better person.… Read more »

Same story here
Reply to  Was a bocher
December 13, 2020 4:52 am

Unfortunately your arguments don’t hold true for the ‘Shluchim’ who use out frum Chabad girls and boys, treat them horribly, don’t pay, overwork them, and just generally use and abuse them. It’s happened to me more than once, it’s happened to so many girls I know. Yes there are a few Shluchim who are genuinely there for the Rebbe and the right reasons, and who treat the bachurim and girls who work for them with the decency as any human should be treated, but for most of the rest, I am sorry, being called a ‘Shliach’ does not entitle you… Read more »

I might sound like I'm not living in this dor
November 30, 2020 10:10 pm

But whatever happened to lshem mitzvah? Doing what Hashem and the Rebbe wants us to do? If the Rebbe asked us to do something would we have asked for payment? So shamed.. what ever happened to wanting to do something out of doing what’s right and good? We have to spread goodness and kindness, yes – the sentence doesnt finish off with “and ask for payment” for spreading it. So shameful.

My humble opinion
Reply to  I might sound like I'm not living in this dor
November 30, 2020 10:30 pm

Is that you and the rabbi here are 100% right, and this bochur is not asking appropriately, since the whole idea of mivtzoim he got it wrong. The problem is, when the shliach himself forgets that he can be ohev yisroel and become very involved in helping another yid fulfill his mission aka ‘shlichus’,And he does so in the proper way of ahavas yisroel . Sometimes, (sadly its quite often), that the shliach forgets that a bochur is also another yid, and the fact that he is already “religious” make it easy to him to forget that he can not… Read more »

Replying...
Reply to  My humble opinion
November 30, 2020 11:01 pm

Thanks for replying in depth and was very clear. Agree! On a side note: Shlichus begins at home and with our fellow chassidim BEFORE the outside world. If certain shluchim are “broken” inside, then how can they fix the world?! Just want to underline a point: bochurim should remember the truth! We do because our Rebbe wants and generously, but don’t base the foundation on payment.

Direct mivtzoim associated with a chag
November 30, 2020 10:27 pm

Official policy is no payment for direct mivtzoim activity, ever, when it does not cut into Yeshiva. A good bochur values hiskashrus, jumping to teach Torah, or the other mivtzoim, while there, making a good impression.
Anything past that holiday, and specific mivtzoim activity requires payment. The amount is not publicly clear (post smicha amount, pre smicha, when the assistance is as not paid, etc.)

It goes both ways
November 30, 2020 10:29 pm

If the Shluchim will be respectful and treat the bochurim like mentchen and not like avodim, the bochurim will be less inclined to ask for money. If the Shluchim see the bochurim as partners working towards the same goal and not as throw away assistants that they can treat like garbage, the bochurim will be happy to help with out being paid.
It’s not the Shluchim who pay who are making the problem, it’s the Shluchim who aren’t even trying to be major tov to the bochurim who come out to help them

Bochur in 770
November 30, 2020 10:35 pm

As a bochur in 770 myelf and many friends go to many different shluchim. There are some things that we expect to get paid for e.g. if the shliach is asking us to lain or go chazan on RH and YK ect. But there are also many things that we don’t necessarily expect them to pay us like Chanukah mivtzoim and similar (even though there are a lot of very nice shluchim who do give a tip at the end and we appreciate it greatly). I personally find that the main thing a look into when I go to a… Read more »

Bravo
November 30, 2020 10:53 pm

Wonderful article! Well said and we’ll written. Hopefully… well taken by bochrim and shluchim alike!

Eh, disagree
November 30, 2020 11:06 pm

Arguments are weak. Bochurim deserve compensation just as much as the Shliach who also gets his paycheck. Stop stepping on people who are younger and smaller than you just because you can.

Disagree
Reply to  Eh, disagree
December 2, 2020 2:13 am

The bachurim don’t have to do nothing,if they want to help a shlichus is their choice

Anonymous
Reply to  Disagree
December 6, 2020 12:55 pm

well, it will encourage the bochurim to do more mivtzoim if they do get a small something.

Don’t treat the bochurim like they are tiny kids, and don’t treat them like slaves either, bc they are helping you. If you can, deff pay them, its worth it and its a mentch thing ot do

Last edited 1 month ago by Anonymous
Taking money for mivtzoim
November 30, 2020 11:09 pm

It is appalling that any bochur could contemplate being paid for such things. the only money we ever took from a shliach for mivtzoim was directly to expenses. The gas, the plane ticket, etc.

Okd
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 1, 2020 8:49 am

Times are a changing

i think you are not understanding
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 1, 2020 9:47 am

In my opinion the bochur doesnt want to get paid for helping give out menorahs and put on teffilin with other yidden.
He wants to get paid to shlep the tables and chairs and clean up the venue when its over.

Taking money for mivtzoim
Reply to  i think you are not understanding
December 1, 2020 10:59 am

is setting up the tables any less a part of the shlichus?

yes.
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 1, 2020 12:16 pm

This is something that you dont need to bring bochrim from NY for, you can use the local custodian.

Should shluchim ask bochurim to clean the toilets to be part of the shlichus?

yes.
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 1, 2020 12:49 pm

yes. It is less part of the shlichus.

So is babysitting the shliachs children

Taking money for mivtzoim
Reply to  yes.
December 1, 2020 5:04 pm

Rhetorical question. Whatever needs to be done needs to be done. The car doesn’t drive without wheels no matter how fancy the engine is.

If you don’t feel like you are a wheel or want to do it then you have the right to not go but to expect payment is ridiculous.

Amazing
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 3, 2020 10:38 pm

It’s just something you pay people to do.

Mivtzoim vs services
November 30, 2020 11:55 pm

I agree with your point that helping a shliach needs to be with an attitude that we’re doing the Rebbe’s work. However, there are bocherim who can provide a professional service such as music or other forms of entertainment. In such a case it is irrelevant to the shliach that you’re just a bocher and don’t have expenses. If he doesn’t tell his cleaning lady or dry cleaner “how dare you charge the rebbe’s shliach?” Then he shouldn’t tell it to other services, even if they’re lubavitcher bocherim. Yes it’s nice to give a shluchim discount but it’s not ok… Read more »

Absolutely!
Reply to  Mivtzoim vs services
December 1, 2020 8:42 pm

Since when do people’s expenses have to do with how much they get paid? A bochur can responsibly save his money for when he does have expenses, or he can use it for the small expenses he does currently have.

Times have changed, nebach, and the Rebbe’s words often feel distant to the children of today. Don’t stress on the fact that the bochur isn’t doing shlichus for the sake of Shlichus. Focus on the fact that the bochur chose to do shlichus at all.

Kop Doktar
December 1, 2020 12:11 am

Pure rubbish. This article is directly counter directives of the Rebbe that we must charge for objects given on mivtzoyim because…people value and appreciate something that costs money. In life, we say, you get paid what you are worth and if you get paid nothing, you are worth…Maybe the author should work for free.

Buying them
Reply to  Kop Doktar
December 1, 2020 5:12 am

You’ve completely missed the point of the letter.

Mendel
Reply to  Kop Doktar
December 1, 2020 7:54 am

Why the hate. When a bocher is helping a shliach he is in essence helping so to say the Rebbe. You would never change the Rebbe.

Johnny From the Markey
Reply to  Mendel
December 1, 2020 9:53 pm

Mendel, you are wrong! The Rebbe ALWAYS insisted on paying. He felt it was wrong not to pay.

Anonymous
Reply to  Kop Doktar
December 6, 2020 12:57 pm

I agree

You are right BUT
December 1, 2020 12:38 am

You are 100% correct in what you are mentioning. However in today’s day, teens whether high school girls or bochurim need to make money. Lots of them are already to a certain extent independent and need that source of income. As lubavitchers they should be spending our time helping shluchim, achieving what the rebbe wanted from us. You are right that the reason they do it should NOT be to make the money, but they should in fact get money. If they are not going to make money then they should and will find another job to do nothing with… Read more »

Correct but..
Reply to  You are right BUT
December 1, 2020 5:10 pm

Bichlal, as a Bocher who has been to MANY Shluchim, he is talking about people still in yeshiva, not the people who would be anyway working.
so while you may be correct, that is not the point of this letter.

Upholding standards in Lubavitch
December 1, 2020 1:41 am

This has become a problem on more than just “helping a shliach” level. People will not speak or farbreng without charging. Making phone calls for a moised costs money. Even chessed nowadays is not chessed – it’s paid service.
I grew up with the concept that if you’re able to help out a fellow yid, you drop everything and help. Nowadays you only drop everything if there’s good money involved.
Moshiach now

Taking money for mivtzoim
Reply to  Upholding standards in Lubavitch
December 1, 2020 11:00 am

Same. We learned and we believe that doing a chesed is of far more value than any reward.

Controversial topic
December 1, 2020 3:06 am

I most say i have mixed feelings about this topic but i lean towards the article is wrong Why is the article right First he has a point saying that the bachur going there he is not promised to get paid or even tips,so we can expect everything Why is the article wrong 1.he says we do not need money because they are bachurim is a horrible analogy Because if a teen gets a job in target even can the boss say because he is a teen i do not have pay you 2.you do not ready to pay you… Read more »

Shlichus is a business
December 1, 2020 3:19 am

I doubt they are going to post this.shlichus is a business, there is some people that succeed and get good money, some people fail,but even if your business fails you still have pay to your workers.

I consider the bachur a temporary worker so you should pay them at least something or do not ask for a bachur.

Need to agree a bit
Reply to  Shlichus is a business
December 1, 2020 10:48 am

I think its so wrong to say that. However this is reality. Most boys that i know they go on shlichus not because they want to do the”rebbes shlichus” but because they want to enjoy life. And that’s how they feel they will be able to. (And also not to be called a c.h farmer). And the proof is clear- on Chanukah they are only looking to go to the shliach/ or move on shlichus long term- in Spain, Mexico etc – places where its fun and then they tell off the teachers which are working tirelessly to do the… Read more »

Give all Shluchim an equal chance
December 1, 2020 3:33 am

I think no Sheliach should pay a Bochur for help, apart from travel expenses, this gives all Shluchiman equal chance to get clearly needed help, otherwise those who don’t pay or haven’t the funds to do so will be left without that help. Let it be a good training ground for when or if the Bochurim end up on Shlichus after marriage.

Shluchim
December 1, 2020 8:59 am

I’ve been to many shluchim over the past bunch of years. (Upwards of 50) and there are clearly very different ways that shluchim handle bochrim. Its very simple if a shliach isn’t even considering to pay a bocher he almost always treats that bocher like trash (personal experiences). The whole idea of paying is showing appreciation not paying them for what they are doing but to show that you appreciate them coming and helping you out. Just some typical basic human decency. A lot of shluchim look at bochrim to do a bunch of grunt work and being a schlepper… Read more »

They need the money.
Reply to  Shluchim
December 1, 2020 10:14 am

Nothing to do with this article,Maybe your parents were able to support you but bochurim do need money. Alot of them have to pay for their own clothes,food flights ect

Taking money for mivtzoim
Reply to  Shluchim
December 1, 2020 11:03 am

And I had the opposite experience. Every shliach I have ever helped has taken care of me.

beautiful
Reply to  Taking money for mivtzoim
December 1, 2020 12:21 pm

These are amazing people.
Unfortunately not everyone has the same experience.
These shluchim which treat bochurim as peers are amazing and usually successful. Those who are not are usually the guys who need to bring in bochurim to have a minyan for shavuos.

There is a term amongst the Bochurim “you got shliached” when a shliach treats them like garbage and is unappreciative.

There was a website in the making for people to rate their experiences with Shluchim. I think it never made it as people were threatening the creator of it.

interesting
December 1, 2020 9:24 am

when i was a bochur 20 years ago we had an idea to create a website where we would shame those shluchim who treated bochurim unfairly

and the problem continues

the world of chabad has become very glitzy, with many shluchim showing off first class tickets, best hotel rooms etc etc so a bochur who goes to help thinks, why can’t I get a slice of this pie?

Yes!
Reply to  interesting
December 1, 2020 11:54 am

There was a website where singles wrote about their experiences with shluchim. It was great!! And lasted for a while until it was shut down!

many facets
December 1, 2020 9:34 am

Schluchim do not make programs from air. A few may have generous backers for any program, some must raise every penny for even the smallest event from already strained backers and most are somewhere between. Some bocherim need every bit of money they can make because their families do not have money for extras or perhaps are struggling just for their basic needs. If a bocher can forgo cash and would not be using his talents/time to make money he should be available for the schluchim who cannot pay. If he truely needs money he should go to schluchim who… Read more »

simple math
December 1, 2020 10:03 am

There are Bochrim who demand money in order to take part in the Rebbes Inyanim, and those who are eager to do so without a payoff.

At the end of the day, the first bocher will be several thousand dollars richer. He will not however, be considered by anyone for Shlichus.

MTL
December 1, 2020 10:10 am

I understand not taking a fee (or salary, if you will). However, when a bochur is going out of town for this, in most cases, he is not making money and many parents cannot afford airfare. So does this include airfare paid by the shliach? Or just a fee for the work? If you’re saying the bochur should also pay for the airfare or other travel expenses, I honestly don’t think it’s fair to burden the parents when they have many other expenses (tuitions, for example) and in most cases are having a hard time making a living as it… Read more »

Amazing
Reply to  MTL
December 3, 2020 10:44 pm

I think flights are always paid for

Resident
December 1, 2020 10:24 am

I hate to disagree , but bachurim do not have a source of income. They are humans to who have small needs and wants and want to buy some small things for there self . Even sometimes basics like toiletries . Helping shluchim is a kosher way for them to earn some pocket money. They should be compensated for their time . They have served as amazing role models to my children and I always compensated them when ever I was able to .

Bochur Shlichus
December 1, 2020 11:19 am

Of course, when a bochur goes on bochur shlichus, he’s expected to give up his PAL grant.
Bochurim get the short end of the stick, always.
I was in an office once (not saying whose) and overheard on the phone (not saying who) discussing with a menahel a travesty that a bochur insists on not paying to help a shlichus! A chutzpa! Bochurim have to work for free, and cover their own expenses.

i was a bucher.
December 1, 2020 11:33 am

I went by shluchim who didnt give us proper food, but we didnt complain, because they didnt have proper food as well, for their own. I went by Shluchim who gave us a tip at the end of the shlichus, and it was appreciated. I was by Shluchim, who made a huge party, and paid everyone at the end of the event, besides for the bochurim, it was a very bad feeling. (20$ would have make the job, we didnt have גרויסע השגות) There were shluchim that came to ‘borrow’ money from us to pay the rent, it was done… Read more »

Slaves
December 1, 2020 11:57 am

I went to a shliach for purim (purim was on a sunday) with a few bochrim, the shliach paid the airfare but 95% of what we did was setup his party (took a whole Friday, motzei shabbos and a few hours on Sunday) and we cleaned up. I didn’t go to him to be a janitor. It costed him less to fly us in than to hire workers. If it would’ve known what was going to be I wouldn’t of gone.

I’ve been to other shluchim that only use bochrim for mivtzoim, that’s the way it should be.

k'mayim haPanim
December 1, 2020 12:58 pm

Everyone knows that there are many types of Shluchim.

If the shliach acts like his Meshaleiach, then the bochurim will act like their Meshaleiach.

If the shliach acts like it’s his business, then the bochurim will also act like it’s their business.

Yaakov called Lavan “my brother” for a reason

Missing the point
December 1, 2020 2:46 pm

The overall point of the article is not necessarily wrong, but to focus on the “quality of life” spending is silly.

How can you ask the bocherim to forgo any and all life improvements including the buying of seforim, but not demand the same from shluchim.

No one is asking the shalich to live ultra frugally. Never spending a cent more than he needs on his and family’s needs. How can you ask that then from the bocherim

Simple
December 1, 2020 3:27 pm

If a shliach has a job that doesn’t require Frum Lubavitcher buchrim for, (setting up events helping in the kitchen etc) then those things are an expense just like the mortgage. The same way a shliach has to pay his gardener or maid, he needs to pay someone to set up chairs or peel potatoes. Anything that is the Shlichus itself (mivtzoim) neither should the buchrim ask nor should the shliach give. And as a general rule, buchrim who are treated as mentchen and not as if the shliach as doing you a favor by letting you shlep chairs, always… Read more »

אחד מאנ"ש
December 1, 2020 4:10 pm

סליחה אם התגובה שלי לא תהיה כ”כ מקובלת, אבל בואו לא נשכח שיש בחורים שאין להם כסף, ויש שלוחים שבלי עין הרע יש להם גבירים והרבה כסף, לכן לא יקרה כלום אם השליח ישלם משהו לבחור שעוזר לו.

Well said/appreciation
December 1, 2020 4:15 pm

I must say I’m VERY into doing Shlichus in every possible opportunity, whether camp, events or so. Yet I must say, I have ALWAYS- before camp- asked in advance what’s the payment. I understand it’s for Shlichus and not for payment, obviously if I were to look for any other job I would easily find one and make even more money, the point isn’t the money, but obviously you don’t work for free. Let’s start a new campaign, all teachers should work for free because they’re doing the Rebbes Shlichus… It doesn’t make sense. It is not ok going to… Read more »

Question
December 1, 2020 5:04 pm

If what rabbi itzinger is saying is true why then did the rebbe insist that bochurim get payed for doing release time

What payment did the rebbe insist for?
Reply to  Question
December 2, 2020 2:43 am

Are you talking about the 5$ to get some lunch they missed or the dime they get for tzedaka?

Depends how you come in
Reply to  Question
December 2, 2020 4:01 am

Hi,
We were paid 4$ and fifty cents to buy a sandwich because we missed lunch. Not salary (in 2009-2011)

Misdirected Letter
December 1, 2020 8:45 pm

In 250 plus years, Lubavitch has never been more megushim than it is today. Luxury cars, tuitions, the Shlichus business, simcha spending, single malt whiskeys, the paid speakers circut. And the list goes on and on.

Why do you expect this not to filter down to bochurim wanting to get paid for their work? You are asking alot and if you really want to see change you must changs the entire culture. There was a time they called it fargrepte blutteh, today it is called the all mighty dollar.

Privileged
December 1, 2020 11:21 pm

As a bocher I always knew that I was privileged to help a shliach and that i gained more than what money can buy.
The world if full of volunteers why would we set our standards any lower?

azov taazov IMO
December 4, 2020 12:45 am

The Torah has the answer . Shluchim are human . It does happen OCCASSIONALLY ,that one will take advantage of a bochur or girl. But even if the shliach asks you to shlep some tables etc.What is wrong? IF HE IS WORKING AS HARD AS HE IS ASKING YOU TO,it’s fine! As the Torah stipulates if the one who needs help is working along side with you ,then be HAPPY TO HELP! Azov Taazov Imo. If he is not working alongside you -then maybe you have a point . But even then ,think of how once in a while we… Read more »

Anonymous
December 6, 2020 12:59 pm

I am sorry, but I am sure the bochurim will greatly appreciate the money, and it will motivate them to help more.
They may not need to pay bills, but nowadays teens are more independent and do need the money.

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