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Monday, 23 Elul, 5782
  |  September 19, 2022

‘Government Regulations Will Only Harm Our Yeshivas’

Op-Ed by Rabbi Zalman Shneur, Executive Director of The Menachem Education Foundation, dedicated to improving Chinuch: "Are yeshiva graduates successful despite our education or because of our education?" Full Story

L’Chaim: Goldstein – Raichik

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What about our struggling youth?
May 30, 2022 11:11 am

All of us know people that are OTD. We give this crisis so much lip service and claim “unconditional love”. Ironically, the ones that created this issue are the ones we love that have left the community. Why are we not asking them how they feel about the chinuch they were given and how they feel about this issue? Because it’s much easier to continue alienating, write them off as disgruntled, and write in petitions for more of the same.

Simple - because
Reply to  What about our struggling youth?
May 30, 2022 11:31 am

Simple – Becuase government regulation is not the answer to improving the chinuch system.

So what is the answer?
Reply to  Simple - because
May 30, 2022 1:12 pm

This is what it says on Pirkei Avos:
Pray for the integrity of the government; for were it not for the fear of its authority, a man would swallow his neighbor alive.
Have you seen any major petition for improving our system? Any Tefilah day? When there is no fear of the government thing don’t change!

No fear of the government?
Reply to  So what is the answer?
May 30, 2022 1:42 pm

There sure is fear of the government!

That’s because nearly EVERYTHING that the government gets it’s hands on gets totally messed up and I’m being polite.

Every program, every special office, every task force–they are magnets for corruption and greed.

Simplify government and restore personal responsibility.

We don’t need the government to care for us. Once they start calling the shots your free choice is GONE.

Partially right
Reply to  Simple - because
May 30, 2022 1:59 pm

You are right that there should be no government involvement to improve standards in all of the private schools. But there is another side of the coin; for starters, not all private schools deprive their students of secular education. Many have a curriculum of high quality torah education and a rubust secular education equal or better than public schools and they outwit And outperform the public schools and for the record, even the worst failing public schools provide the bare minimum of what is needed to manage a real school education. The real argument here is that there are certain… Read more »

Really???
Reply to  Partially right
May 30, 2022 3:00 pm

You Write “these very same institutions receive so much funding and aid and most of it goes to the principals and others and very little is used for the schools and students…”

What type of funding are you referring to?
The lunch program – the busing?
These are the most audited programs in the city.
please clarify!

what is the connection even
Reply to  What about our struggling youth?
May 30, 2022 12:47 pm

There are schools that teach limmudei chol, and if someone really wants it taught to their kids, they can go there how hypocritical of these individuals, they are saying to change something because they did not like it, yet they are trying to change something for us and we do not want them to. If they want their kids to learn limmudei chol, let them send their kids to learn limmudei chol if they are honest, this is not about them trying to save us from the “terrible” situation we are in look at the average product of a NYC… Read more »

Critical Thinking
Reply to  what is the connection even
May 30, 2022 1:53 pm

Why don’t you speak to them before assuming hypocrisy. Those that I spoke with are the pairos of the schools that don’t offer English.

BH, my parents switched me to a school with English at a very young age, and my children have all gone to yeshivas with amazing chinuch in both kodesh and chol. My family is BH not affected by this at all.

Anonymous
Reply to  what is the connection even
May 31, 2022 7:51 am

Your focus is on what the parents want what about the children? The point is a parent shouldn’t be able to choose to deprive their children of a necessity

Hate and anger is not the answer
Reply to  What about our struggling youth?
May 30, 2022 2:12 pm

That is exactly the problem here, we are so stuck to the old ways and never find ways to improve and adapt to the new age. Today, it has become harder and harder to make a livelihood and with advanced technology, medicines, engineering professions, science professionals, etc.. Getting jobs like these are hard. That is the problem, the youth from those very same communities are being deprived from a happy future and when they want to follow their dreams, we get angry at them and when we deprive them, they feel that they are not loved and when neighbors, friends,… Read more »

Articulate op-ed
May 30, 2022 11:37 am

I was able to convince someone very skeptical to sign by reading them this article. Thank you!

government regulations and the Governor's benefice
May 30, 2022 1:35 pm

On the same day you are so excited to report about Hochul’s financial help to yeshivos you write about impending chas vshaolom regulations. . She is making a fool of you , laughing at your trust in anything she says. Her Communist anti religion agenda is government regulations. Reminds me of when the yidden in Mitzraim made more bricks than anyone and then Paro told us “This is what you’ll continue to do!”

Yes
May 30, 2022 1:53 pm

I’m just trying to be intellectually honest:
Our chinuch system does teach amazing skills in learning and “drive to work toward something greater than oneself”

but “critical, analytical and creative thinking skills”.. I’m not so sure…

I think that in the final analysis it would be true that the many BH successful people that come from our system are in fact successful “despite our education”, with the help of the entrepreneurial spirit and community support systems and connections.

can I sign if we live out of state
May 30, 2022 2:14 pm

can out of towners sign too, if we have grandkids in the NY system

yes
Reply to  can I sign if we live out of state
May 30, 2022 7:13 pm

yes

yes
Reply to  can I sign if we live out of state
May 30, 2022 7:16 pm

yes

Menachem Foundation
May 30, 2022 5:26 pm

They are doing so much to improve the standard of chinuch in chabad schools but won’t be able to if the government gets in the middle

just wrong
Reply to  Menachem Foundation
May 31, 2022 7:51 pm

This comment is laughable

Read the actual proposed regulations...
May 30, 2022 5:31 pm

And don’t merely read a website or a few that provide bullet points without sources–whether for or against. Do the same with any government proposed laws or regulations, etc. Go to the source(s). The PR case in opposition to these regulations is introducing distortions if not blatant falsehoods, and an inaccurate explanation of the proposed regulations and the laws behind why some form of these regulations are required by NYS. The fact that the waves of opposition from many of these websites, Agudah, PEARLS, etc. does not cite or link to the actual proposed regulations or give and accurate explanation… Read more »

Specifics
Reply to  Read the actual proposed regulations...
May 30, 2022 9:42 pm

What are the specific falsehoods you mention?

Facts
Reply to  Specifics
May 31, 2022 6:52 am

The specific falsehoods are clear. The part where they say that they will jail people, where they will bring immodest subjects into our schools, where they want to eradicate torah, etc… It is all lies and all propaganda and nothing but indoctrination and brainwashing of the ignorant, uneducated, and ill-informed. Part of the regulations is making sure that a few hours is used to teach proper secular studies of the required subjects, there are real teachers qualified to teach those subjects, records of how the fundings are being used and that they are being used properly, oversight amd inspections to… Read more »

Specifics
Reply to  Facts
May 31, 2022 5:16 pm

You have exposed your position–thank you for the clarification.

just wrong
Reply to  Specifics
May 31, 2022 7:52 pm

I would like to know why you think so

naive
Reply to  Facts
June 1, 2022 5:40 pm

How naive and blind you are to their real intentions

Thank you!
May 30, 2022 10:01 pm

Thank you for posting the link,
I read the proposed law, and it’s worse than I thought.

You
May 30, 2022 10:41 pm

Can’t take credit for success people have IN SPITE of going to yeshivos that didn’t prepare them/actively inhibit them.

Read the article.
Reply to  You
May 31, 2022 7:35 am

The author enumerates specific skills that fuel the success of yeshiva graduates.
Further the education system with its goal of building each students individual potential is the biggest virtue of the system.

Did you read the article at all?
Reply to  You
May 31, 2022 9:53 am

This is exactly the point the article is addressing: That the success of our community is not despite their yeshiva education, but because of the yeshiva education. Read then comment.

Giving kids a choice
May 31, 2022 3:15 am

I think it’s also important to note that we are taking away a child’s choice whenever we enroll them in Judaic only institution. Like this article has stated and like other comments have mentioned, there are definitely definitely many opportunities, some spiritually fulfilling, some well paying, even for those who had no secular education- this I agree with. However we have to realize that though there are opportunities, they are vastly limited. The way I see it, a child can get a full secular education and still want to go on shlichus, and they absolutely can, but a boy who… Read more »

no govt regulation, but we do have a problem.
May 31, 2022 4:22 am

1)I would love to see data or statistics for any of these arguments, as I am not certain of their validity. As of now they’re more unsubstantiated claims and opinions than anything else. 2) “Do you know that our community has robust networking groups for Chabad graduates who enter the fields of medicine, law, and software programming with hundreds of participants?” We do – but that’s not because of our education system, it’s quite literally in spite of it. These people are a self-selecting minority of specifically intelligent, motivated, resourceful individuals who chose to pursue a higher education, career, or… Read more »

Point Number 6)
Reply to  no govt regulation, but we do have a problem.
May 31, 2022 1:30 pm

Your point number 6 is really the best point proving the Author right. You quote the medium Haredi, income at 136,000K while you fail to mention that the medium income in brooklyn is 33k per individual and 63k per household! That is an incredible statistic. Furthermore you quote the poverty level in the Charedi community, which has little t do with household income, They can be attributed to: a) haredi families living longer that other segments of the population b) haredim have more children a typical haredi family with 6 children can be making up to 68k per year (above… Read more »

I am not privy on the data here
Reply to  no govt regulation, but we do have a problem.
May 31, 2022 1:35 pm

for home ownership and workforce participation, but these are 2 metrics that school applications collect.
Section 8 housing in Crown Heights is minimal and almost non existent for young families.

Point 3
Reply to  no govt regulation, but we do have a problem.
May 31, 2022 1:40 pm

Its fascinating how you twist Rabbi Werde words,

there is a famous Chasidic Expression “you cant create a head” either one has it, or not.
As the author mentioned that Yeshiva is not a career oriented program, rather it gaol build a person to maximize their potential.

It is preciously because of the Yeshiva education that Rabbi Werde and G-d bless him, with minimal budget can help hundreds of people every year.

This is was *never* something the Yeshiva were meant to do.

Please read the article again.

Well written and argued
Reply to  no govt regulation, but we do have a problem.
June 1, 2022 5:57 am

I’m sure there are many Yeshiva graduates who read the article and had the same reaction but don’t have the English language writing skills to respond as eloquently as you did.

Despite or because of
May 31, 2022 6:57 am

Many young Holocaust survivors who spent their prime school years in ghettos, forests and concentration camps went on to be fantastically successful. Would you recommend that as a viable educational strategy?

VOTE LEE ZELDIN 2022
May 31, 2022 2:48 pm

This is why we need to vote for Lee Zeldin for Governor!!!

So we like the govt. money, but not the regulation
May 31, 2022 7:22 pm

From what I see here, the main argument is that we don’t want govt regulation, but still want their funding. Our Yeshiva system not only takes public funding directly, but also in the form of FAFSA that is supposed to go to students who want to go study. This money runs out, because students have a limited amount of funds until it runs out, but it almost always runs out by the time a student leaves yeshiva. So yes, the Govt. should absolutely regulate the education it pays for. If the Yeshiva’s were self funded, no, it should not be… Read more »

Your mixing higher ed with Elementary and high sch

Furthermore all yeshivos offer credits. And yeshivah grads leave with zero student debt.

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