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Tuesday, 13 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 16, 2019

    Eruv Effect: So What’s Next?

    From the COLlive inbox: A Crown Heights resident wonders how the Eruv controversy will be affecting daily life. Full Story

    “This Is For Your Father-in-law”

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    Mrs. Shulamis Bluming, 70, OBM

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    Just remember.שבת comes Before cooking meals for others.
    Guest
    Just remember.שבת comes Before cooking meals for others.

    Reform jews are the only one who are Jews at Heart.

     Very well said.
    Guest
    Very well said.

    Mr Eruv maker, tear down this eruv!

    Don't Worry
    Guest
    Don't Worry

    Every member of the CH Chabad population read Rabbi Heller’s kol kerei and the letters of the badatz and on top of it all, the Rebbe’s letter knows that there is no eruv in Crown Heights. I count on EVERYBODY forgetting there ever was an eruv situation and NOBODY will cv”sh be mechalel Shabbos. Let’s put this to rest. We all read the psak and that’s the end of it.

    No ERUV!
    Guest
    No ERUV!

    Not sure your point. Basically it is pretty strong. THERE IS NO KOSHER ERUV. PERIOD.

    nebach
    Guest
    nebach

    you’re giving way too much weight to this issue. no one’s kitchen is treif because they used the eruv. lol.

    Just be chassidim
    Guest
    Just be chassidim

    Chassidim in Russia went on mesirus nefesh on “kotoi shel yud” – for every hidur! That is lubavich! Be a chossid which is as the rebbe said many times, a yid vos tut lifnim meshuras hadin… These are our foundations don’t try to break them, just be extra careful stop convincing yourself it’s allowed when is not! That’s who we are. P.s. (Didn’t really like this paragraph – After Gimmel tammuz there were plenty of haters who took bets as to how long Lubavitch would last without the Rebbe. They found out quickly that their speculations had no grounds. But… Read more »

    in the shulchan aruch
    Guest
    in the shulchan aruch

    A jew who carries in the eiruv is still a religious jew. The eiruv wasn’t invented by reform or conservative, it is codified in Shulchan aruch

    To the author
    Guest
    To the author

    Rabbi Heller is speaking about an individual who KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS that all credible Rabbonim have decreed the Eruv either nonexistent or posul, and still chooses to brazenly carry in the public domain on Shabbos. This person is Mechalel Shabbos B’Meizid, and therefore cannot be trusted on kashrus etc… It’s safe to say that most people that use this Eruv (and it won’t be many) believe that it is certified by a competent Rav, and so they are carrying B’Shogeg. The only matter you would need to concern yourself with is if this individual brought an item to your home… Read more »

    No problem
    Guest
    No problem

    Since all yidden have a cheskas kashrus, it could vs assumed that no shomet shabbos is using the eruv that we don’t know even exists . Rabbi Heller didn’t mean to be choshed everyone, just as until now there has been a general trust He was only saying, that if you happened to know that someone uses the so called Eric, their son changed. Until you know however, there is no reason to worry. As an aside, everyone has individual standards, which cannot be assumed I’d everyone. So if for example one is makpid on lubavitch shechita, it cannot be… Read more »

    Pedant
    Guest
    Pedant

    A very fair question Mrs. Chaya. There is an organization that provides meals for two weeks after the wife gives birth. I have benefited from this organization (and donated to it) numerous times.

    I wouldn’t touch that food if I suspected it was being prepared in the homes of people that use this ‘eruv.’

    It is an extremely sad situation. It is the situation of choitim umachtim es harabim.

    The love boat does not care about shabbos it cares about changing the community.

    Wicked through and through.

    To #7
    Guest
    To #7

    That is true but only if it is a eruv al pi shulchan aruch unlike the case in crown heights

    chesed agencies
    Guest
    chesed agencies

    Ive always wanted to make meals for new mothers but I didnt know the names of any agencies. Perhaps someone could post a list of agencies and contact info?

    Tznius
    Guest
    Tznius

    May we eat the food of women who violate the laws of tznius? This community has some real soul searching to do

    Achdus
    Guest
    Achdus

    You mention achdus but I don’t hear it in your letter. Rabbi Hellers letter (the only sensible one of all the rabinims letters) was very clear that unless one knows who the rav hamachshir is there’s nothing to talk about. Just because you don’t now who it is it does not mean that someone else who may be a member of kol israel or have close connections is in the know and has confirmed with their own reliable rav that it’s up to their personal standards. I find it disturbing that based on one 2nd hand letter you are going… Read more »

    to 14
    Guest
    to 14

    again: it is impossible for ch to have a kosher eruv. impossible. so this article raises many valid concerns. if we cant trust them on shabbos, we cant trustthem in many other areas as well. i believe theyve all been warned enough that anyone who still carries is considered mechalel shabbos bfarhesia.

    Chossid
    Guest
    Chossid

    Just for the record his psak was regarding CH and the Eruv.

    To #13
    Guest
    To #13

    The Beis hamikdash was DESTROYED because of SINAS CHINAM. May one eat from the home of someone judgemental and/or lacking ahavat Yisrael? How about from the home of someone who blatantly speaks lashon hora? Talks aloud during Kris’s haTorah? Isn’t scrupulously honest in his/her business dealings? Etc.

    What is your point
    Guest
    What is your point

    Are you saying that the Eiruv is making a split , you are totally wrong, it’s not the Eruv at all, it’s the general Yidishkeit in CH.
    When married women are dresses like street women, when boys are removing or trimming their beard, when Hefkerus and pritzus prevails, then what is already Eruv so bad, if u r afraid of Shiduchim, rest assured that everyone will check out to see sure it’s a match, or it’s not shayoch.
    The bottom line We need Zmoshiach Now

    PLEASE CLARIFY! ?
    Guest
    PLEASE CLARIFY! ?

    If you hold that who ever uses the eruv isn’t shomer shabbos, then what about all the chabadniks in Melbourne, Flatbush, Miami, Los Angeles, and many city’s in Israel, and many many other city’s, are they also not shomer shabbos?

    Maybe the answer is yes?

    Or is this halacha specifically only crown heights. 1. Because the rebbe was clearly against it. 2. Because eastern parkway makes it impossible to make a kosher eruv.

    wine tastings
    Guest
    wine tastings

    Can wine tastings ever be kosher when there is non mevushal wine?
    Forget about the store owner. What;s with all the tasters?
    Obviously this is never possible!

    To 13
    Guest
    To 13

    Yes being machalel shabbos is insanely more complex then your collar bone showing or not. There is so much mechalal shabbos going on it is despicable and honestly not new since it was happening before the eruv. The eruv is just making it easier, sadly. Btw since the woman is a skana for the first three zdays it should be ok, though after that i just say don’t eat of your home ever.

     i tottaly agree with rabbi heller . its poshut that everyone who is lubavitch should not use the eruv !
    Guest
    i tottaly agree with rabbi heller . its poshut that everyone who is lubavitch should not use the eruv !

    But 1 in hilchos edus in choshen mishpat someone who does an avera beshogeg one who doesn’t understand the severity of a thing like the regular person says the eruv mumche came to crown heights and made the eruv its ok not understanding reshus harabim dorasa or may think rabbi heller etc are machmir in my opinion would not make them posul le’edus. 2 in teshuvos vehanhogos it says someone who keeps a mitzva is neeman in that mitzva ie. if he keeps kashrus and not others is neeman in that mitzva . but i dont take achrayus for the… Read more »

    Rav Belsky
    Guest
    Rav Belsky

    I am very confused having read HoRav Belskt’s Kuntres of 2000
    He was an Odom Godel how possibly could he speak in such a derogatory manner regarding other Poskim especially Rav Menashe Klein ZY”A

    wondering
    Guest
    wondering

    based on this article, we also have to worry about any of the restaurants and stores that sell ready made food

    skirting the real issue
    Guest
    skirting the real issue

    While the eiruv issue is important we are blindsided and not facing the blazing fire rampant in our community. Our young generation needs our focus. We are losing our chassidish abd yiddish identity. We need to put our heads together to revitalize our system, especially for older bochurim and girls.

    Nothing to talk about
    Guest
    Nothing to talk about

    There was no eruv, there is no eruv and there never will be an eruv in CH, what the Rebbe wants is what happens

    Other questions !
    Guest
    Other questions !

    It will become a shidduch research questions- “Does his/her family us the eruv?”
    It will become an employment (especially in chinuch) question- “Do you, or do you come from a family, who uses the eruv?”

    TORAH
    Guest
    TORAH

    When all yiden received the torah on mount sinai, EVERYONE TOGETHER received the SAME EXACT TORAH… There is no secretive private torah’s around… and therefore,if any rov has anything to say about the eiruv in Crown Heights, ( Kosher or Posul), their is no reason for him to hide behind the Curtains, he can rite openly what ever he believes is rite, and sign his name on the psak.

    To #17
    Guest
    To #17

    I have no hate in my heart whatsoever. I ask a simple question: there are dinim of ne’emanus in the torah I. Ever. Who is believed and who isn’t regarding Halacha. A woman who violates he tznius laws: can she be believed when it comes to the kashrus of her kitchen? I don’t know the answer and neither do you.

    This has nothing to do with love or hate. I love. And I am committed all of torah values. Not only love.

    I love you.

    Hair covering
    Guest
    Hair covering

    This idea of being worried about someone else’s kashrus applies also to if the women covers their hair properly.
    In order to eat food, you need to trust the Yiras Shomayim of the person who made it, and someone who does not cover their hair properly or does not keep the halochos of tznius properly, causes a doubt in the kashrus of the food.

    Mikvah
    Guest
    Mikvah

    I once asked my Rav if I could use an OOT Mikvah where the shomeret doesn’t cover her hair. He said no. So I agree, we should not trust the kashrut of someone who violates Halacha & carries in Crown Heights on Shabbat. My daughter was given home made Mishloach Manot by a neighbor who doesn’t seem to care too much about tzniut – she thanked her very nicely & threw it away. She told me she couldn’t trust her kashrut. Baal Tachsis? No, she cares about her & her families neshama.

    #30 you are correct
    Guest
    #30 you are correct

    I learned this as a child in school, that we do not eat in homes of women that do not cover their hair, since they might be lax in the kitchen. I’ve witness this myself, in my friends homes who are not cautious with hair covering. I am not sure if this is a general rule, but honestly curious to hear the answer. I’ve noticed that there are a few gezeh women in my community at all, yet they host many shul events and cook for it. I’ve always been to emberrased to ask the rebetzin about it, since she… Read more »

    :) :)
    Guest
    :) :)

    I read the article and comments, and laugh and laugh… Wow, thanx COL for the entertainment!! To take an issue that was resolved, and try to make it into a bigger issue than it was before… ppl are bored! U have all members of the beis Din plus many other Rabbanim and the Rebbe’s secretary and Shulchan Oruch on one side, and then u have a nameless Rav (who is obviously not a Rav because he went against the community’s beis din to put up an eruv) on the other side: Hmmmmm… who should I listen to? Hmmm… which one… Read more »

    Naharia
    Guest
    Naharia

    Let Rav Shlomo segal come to Naharia and explain how Kvish 4 is NOT a Reshus Horabim Deoiriasa
    Everyone merrily carries across the road from location to location

    He anyhow hangs out in Naharia so let’s hear a peshat from him

    Hair covering
    Guest
    Hair covering

    One thing must be mentioned in all honesty and Fairness In Chabad all our Noshim tzidkonius cover their hair kehalocho as the Rebbe was mesaken, disregarding all the other tzadikim who disagree, that women should wear a Sheitle. The reason for that are ever so well known the Rebbe made them crystal clear they need no reiteration. Give our womenfolk the respect they deserve (this has nothing to do nor is it a comment on the Eruv) the amount of “left eye” here and addressed on the women who really have no opportunity to respond is uncalled for. The level… Read more »

    @35 Boro Park bus??
    Guest
    @35 Boro Park bus??

    Really? What year did you leave Crown Heights? We haven’t had that bus for years. Every Ashkenazi rov says all hair must be covered. Chabad includes even the payos (i.e. the very short hairs in front of the ear that will not be covered even when All hair, front side and back is completely covered) as the Tzemach Tzedek says to those who claim there is a minchag that allows exposure of these short hairs MINCHAG IS GEMATRIA OF GEHENOM. unfortunately the women pictured were showing much more than their payos. Much more even that the total square tefach Sephardic… Read more »

    #13 and #30 are 100% right!!! #35.....
    Guest
    #13 and #30 are 100% right!!! #35.....

    My place of residence has not been in CH for a long time. Of course, at heart, each of us is still in Kan Tziva. I read collive (maybe I shouldn’t) to keep up on “the news”. I always felt, that while the Tznius issue in CH keeps coming up, it can’t possibly be as bad as some of the commentators on collive make it out to be. Well, recently I was “back home” for a couple of days, and was taken aback by the way women walk the streets of CH. (I usually come only in the winter!) The… Read more »

    Food for Thought
    Guest
    Food for Thought

    Framing this in terms of “trust” and “distrust” isn’t the greatest way to look at your neighbors. She doesn’t dress to my standards, so I don’t trust… She may use the eruv, so I don’t trust… Why not just ask? The pro-eruv people don’t seem especially secretive about it. You have more agency than simmering in suspicion and not eating someone’s food. You can still be a kind, loving human being and be a positive influence. That’s holding yourself to the highest standard.

    Ouch
    Guest
    Ouch

    We don’t hold by the eruv, but boy oh boy are you making me feel modern and subversive for being part of a marriage where both of us cook.

    To number 13 and others ignorant of halacha
    Guest
    To number 13 and others ignorant of halacha

    You can’t compare shabbos to tznius and I hope I don’t have to explain that statement. The halocho is as codified in shulchan oruch one who breaks shabbos in front of ten or known to ten purposely then they take on some laws as a non jew. Please learn the facts before speaking

    Simcha poretz geder
    Guest
    Simcha poretz geder

    You respond depressingly Sheitle has no such concerns That is why inter Alia the Rebbe advised when other gedolim were against Minhag is quite correct the gematria but …….. Why bring minhag hamizrachim here they follow kiddoshim utehorim leave them out Where does your righteous venom come from, does it matter that the bus has long been terminated do you not concede my point ? Let us value each other mechazek each other We know each other’s failures let us recognise qualities Of course the Rabbonim need to get their act together but that is their problem. The defence caused… Read more »

    I wish I could say I was shocked...
    Guest
    I wish I could say I was shocked...

    to find this framed as a women’s issue, despite the author’s all male wine tasting afterthought. And once it’s a women’s issue, the comments inevitably come back to tznius and those sneaky immodest women who ruin everything for everyone. You just can’t trust ’em. You know it is possible to not be a raging misogynist without embracing some wave of feminism. Just imagine that we’re all human, all flawed in our way, and all deserving of compassion.

    I think its time to Build a Lubavitcher Eruv...
    Guest
    I think its time to Build a Lubavitcher Eruv...

    for the sake of love.

    WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EIRUV
    Guest
    WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH EIRUV

    The issue of Tznius effects 80-90% of households even if some members keep it properly others in the home don’t). Therefore these organisations who give out food have an Achrayus to make sure they are getting the meals from KOSHER homes. Many times the recipients are under stressfull conditions and don’t have the liberty to check or refuse these packages!

    WHAT EIRUV ?
    Guest
    WHAT EIRUV ?

    There is no EIRUV — Lets stop referring to it as an “EIRUV” There is a piece of string or wire that someone hung up and calls it an EIRUV but our Rabbonim have paskened that this is not an EIRUV. The more we keep calling it an Eiruv the more strength we will be giving to the people that put the string.

    not worth it
    Guest
    not worth it

    i can’t imagine that anyone concerned about keeping “chasiddim ayn mishpochoh” would be willing to sacrifice that for a public eruv. listen, if you feel you must have an eruv to be able to take your kids out on shabbos then get together with a few neighbors and make a private one (as is often done in bungalow colonies). even if you think you’re learned enough to go against rabbanim who are far better versed in shulchan aruch than you are, it’s not worth creating an avoidable machlokes among our people. add to that the fact that the Rebbe’s thoughts… Read more »

    wow
    Guest
    wow

    look how much fighting this eruv has caused.
    its known from the rebbiem that the way you can tell if something is good or bad is to see if it leads to something good or bad the only thing this eruv led to is fighting

    A major issue
    Guest
    A major issue

    Even if people don’t like the eruv or think it’s possul they still have no right to go and cut it down. And even if they think it’s already possul it’s still not their property so they have no right to touch it

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