By anonymous
Someone told me today that in his nearly one decade at Yeshivas, not once was he asked by the members of hanholo (Maggid Shiur, Mashpia, Mashgiach etc.) how he was doing.
I mean nafshiusdik questions where the bochur truly trusts that the hanholo understands him, respects his confidentiality and that the conversation won’t cost him his standing with the hanholo.
I was in Yeshivas where these conversations didn’t happen, and I was also in Yeshivas where we were invited to hold conversations in confidentiality with our hanholo.
I know the bochur’s struggle from my own days in Yeshiva. Some of these are things that I wish that my hanholo would have asked me:
How are you doing Mendel?
Can you come to my office so we can talk?
You are doing so well in the following areas, keep it up!
I’d like to assure you that unless you or another bochur are in imminent danger, your confidentiality and safety will be maintained and none of this will be used against you. We love you and only want for your wellbeing.
I invite you to test me that anything that will be said to me here, will only result in more support for you.
Are there areas that you feel that you are struggling in?
We’re going to get through this together.
Everyone is human and has weaknesses, but you should just know that any perceived weaknesses that you may have are completely overwhelmed by your amazing qualities that you possess.
We believe in you!
I notice that you are struggling in the following areas.
It pains me to see you struggling.
What’s bothering you?
Would you like me to speak to your parents to see if there is more that we can do to help you?
Despite any struggle that you may have, Hashem loves and believes in you more than you can ever imagine.
Is there someone that you would like to speak to that you would find it easier to speak to and/or trust?
Myself and the other hanholo are always here for you, please don’t hesitate to let me/us know if you would want to talk.
Etc.
I admit that some of these words sound cheesy and like platitudes, but I know of no nefesh that requires no affirmations to be healthy, especially at such a vulnerable and critical age.
Having these conversations will only diminish the amount of them that a bochur will require. Neglecting a bochur’s emotional wellbeing will only increase the amount of these conversations that would be necessary.
If Yeshivas would act in a similar fashion to what is articulated above, the institutional reputation/nachas will follow in immense measures. Perhaps not in the most simplified and stereotypical fashion, but the most meaningful and genuine type of nachas. Can there be any greater fulfillment for our heroes in chinuch to feel than to see their bochurim healthy and thriving?
Hatzlocho rabbo!
Postscript: I’m writing from my own perspective, however presumably the above holds largely true for the girls schools.
Oy vay that’s not true I always
can we just stop with the loshan hara
The author of this piece identifies a legitimate problem with our “system.” Often, bachurim struggle with struggles that can be remedied by a mere conversation with the hanholo, but they are deprived of it. It’s not that the hanholos are evil, of course; instead, they are simply ignorant and untrained to treat bachurim‘s issues. Think of your friends who were hired to work at yeshivos. Were they hired because of their outstanding people skills, or because of their incredible grasp of the academic subjects being taught? For the women reading this, I’ll tell you: It’s the second option. And this… Read more »
A social worker comes off as uncaring. He’s simply paid to ask these questions and (hopefully) help the bochur deal with some of his issues. With regards to a Mashpia or any other hanhola member, it’s not about whether or not he’s paid to deal with these things, it’s that he should actually care about the bochur who is a fellow yid. If the hanhola member was truly a role model of a chossid (as he should be) he would truly care for him. Additionally, the bochur being his talmid is like a spiritual son. If he were to spend… Read more »
It’s not even that social workers come off as doing it for the job. Let’s assume the social worker is caring. The bochur would get the impression that the only people who cared about him were college educated folk. And that is supposed to inspire him to be a big chossid? I honestly used to think less of the litvishers because I picked it up from osmosis, but then I found out from litvishers how they feel about their Rebbeim in yeshivos. They said they never felt such ahava from someone like from their Rebbeim that truly loved them. So… Read more »
Maybe it’s just my personality idk but in girls schools they occasionally do check in on you, I always hate and dread these few mins, like I don’t need your pep talk unless it’s coming from someone I respect and like
Obvs though depends on the students some would appreciate
As teens, we were truly able to distinguish a genuine tone from an automated one. It’s hard for a teenager to open up to someone and appreciate their questions when the concern isn’t actually there.
It’s a difficult situation because the questions need to be asked, and for every 10 girls who didn’t benefit from the ‘pep talk’, maybe one did. But I also see how turning this isn’t a routine procedure isn’t doing the job that so needs to get done.
Worth it for 1 yidishe neshama to be saved even if it means a few students having 3 awkward minutes in their life!
i agree, it can also be uncomfortable. but really i’d rather they ask me if i’m ok and what’s going even if i don’t tell them anything, it’s still would make someone feel good. i also think most students feel that the principals won’t understand them and will judge them wrongly for something not so bad that their doing. i also feel like principals do the opposite of asking u how ur doing… they tell u off for something u might be struggling with a lot, or tell you off for anything and it can effect other areas, i have… Read more »
No it is not only in ur school, in the school I went to I sadly had such a principal too!!
im sure it’s a very common thing in many high schools and yeshivos!!
The teachers that would check in on us were not the teachers I was interested in talking to at that age. I probably would’ve opened up to almost any other one. In seminary it was an easier teacher to talk to, but that only happened to me once.
They do call u in and all u wanna do is dissapear. It never seems real. How are you doing? Great! What else would i say? Im doing terribly, i hate school, its a rlly bad day, idk what to do… And then what? They make a big deal and call u to the therapist and call ur parents…its better to just say ure fine and get out of the few awkward minutes. Its definitely possible that it helps some ppl and good for them! But for a lot of us it doesnt…it just doesnt seem like they genuinely care… Read more »
It’s an ugly aspect of society, boys and men are expected to have no needs. Growing up ( in CH)I was always tired and hungry but no one ever cared enough to notice. I would never raise my children in such a community.
When I was in high school we had an appointed machaneches who had favourites terribly. Meaning she would ignore some girls, make others feel like nebach cases,extremely uncomfortable and loose their self esteem (myself included), and help maybe about 5% out of all the girls. Another problem was that she was EXTREMELY frum and VERY closed minded meaning that she didn’t know how to help a girl who was having struggles religiously or a girl having problems at home. This machaneches left the school when I was in ninth grade and then we didn’t have any official machaneches after that.… Read more »
Your words are NOT cheesy. Your words are a pintele yid who is yearning for reciprocation from a adult who understands his adventuring into adulthood life. It’s far from cheesy… yes society expects you not to have feelings of your own, to fold in the mold that they decided for you to have and set out for you to have. YOU have to make your decisions even If it means that society WILL frown upon you. Stand up for YOU! For only you can do that! I’ll end off by saying: if your parents cant be there for you or… Read more »
Well some schools if u tell one staff member something, magically all the staff know about it the next day
Unless it’s like a social worker who could lose her job
The catalyst for getting one to speak, including a child, is confidentiality. That creates trust. If a child speaks to their staff who assure them that there is confidentiality and that is violated, you isolate a child who wrongly concludes that no adults are to be trusted. That is tragic. A horrible thing to rob a child of. In healthcare the staff are bound to HIPAA law. Essentially part of their Hippocratic Oath (pun not intended) is to comply with HIPAA laws, in other words never compromising the privacy of the patient.
I knew a boy from an older grade who left seventh grade all crushed because one teacher told something private about his life to a few other teachers who told only a few other teachers and this led to a few teachers rly disliking him and, well what can I say?
rebbis, pls keep things your Talmid tells you P.R.I.V.A.T.E.!!!!!!!
Couldn’t have said it better.
Students need to know they are cared for not just at home.
It’s crucial to their success. Thank you for raising awareness.
Don’t you say that these people are busy and have no time to ask how your doing. That’s is the worst excuse possible. I cannot talk for boys yeshivos, but I’m assuming it’s the same thing as girls high schools. Teachers and principals have to be taught certain priorities. Asking a child how they are and wishing them Mazel tov on a recent family simcha (surprisingly forgotten many times) is more important than teaching another rashi in chumash or telling a student to pull her skirt down not 4 inches below her knee but 5. And yes dear mechanchos, guess… Read more »
Your own kids need a relationship with you in order to survive emotionally.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
And then the next article on collive is: why aren’t there enough people in the chinuch field who want to become teachers…. a lot of teachers dont qualify for teaching because they are giving you what their parents or teachers taught them and since the generation gets lower so does the quality. then it’s either what you have or nothing….
You obviously didn’t go to yoec
Props to Rabbi Shapiro!
when I went to yoec for my first year zal the magid shiur spoke to me and was in touch with me, in the way the article suggests.
100% agree, in some yeshivas there’s a degree of anonymity that’s just awful.
I can imagine some Yeshiva’s are like that, but those are usually the big Yeshiva’s, and if you need more personal attention, you should never go to massive Yeshiva’s, i know when I learnt in Baltimore, going back some years, the hanhala always cared for us bochurim, me included, always asked how we were doing, and the hanhala were keeping track of the bochurim. in general Baltimore yeshiva the hanhala are great.
And it’s more important that a bochur is cared for and nurtured mentally and emotionally than that he knows another blatt if gemara.
only 25 Bochurim in the whole lubavitch can get in to Baltimore every year
exactly and thats part of the issue that thats basically the only small yeshiva gedolah out there today.
Bs everyone should get this not only certain bocherim
Even in Baltimore, the quieter bochurim got less attention.
that you got accepted there
The accepted spelling in this day and age is hatzlacha raba, with As and eth no caps
Caps are actually more proper.
I think you meant to say “etc.”
Unless you were referring to the coin Ethereum.
Concentrate on being the one who asks people how they are. Instead of putting such reliance on all the people around you, you be the light. You’ll find yourself stronger, much loved and better able to face life.
It’s not about going around having Hanhallh ask you everyday how your doing it’s about building a trust between you and the hanhallh so you feel comfortable going over to them with a certain struggle in Avodas Hashem knowing they will truly care no matter what vs having hanhallh who only like/care about you if you follow there orders and if you don’t they will make yiu feel guilty like a murderer whould you feel comfortable going over to them with a problem? No. And that’s a big problem in many institutions.
Hanhallah going over and asking Bochurim how they are doing is a nice thing but that’s not the point here the point here is that Bochurim should feel a connection to Mashpia or whoever in the Hanhala that supersedes even that of a Bochur who falls back and doesn’t keep to that which Hanhala want of him yet he nevertheless still feels accepted as a human being and feels comfortable going over and speaking over certain struggles with that Hanhala member and the Hanhala member still accepts him for who he is despite him not being the top Bochur who… Read more »
What about hello good morning how was your sleep last night? Did you enjoy the farbrengen? Are making any new friends? How’s the food? Are you hungry? Basic human interaction. Knas for everything. No feeling that your worth anything if your there or not. (This was 20 yrs ago). they couldn’t treat the bochurim like a human ? With emotions?
In addition, it’s important for a child to know that his wellbeing supersedes that of an institution.
And if a yeshiva throws him out, although sometimes necessary to protect the wellbeing of the others at the yeshiva, nonetheless hanholo should continue reaching out showing genuine interest in HIM, kiruvim, absent any judgment.
In many instances there appears to be a missing link in the system. I doubt anyone would say that expressing care should not be part of a yeshiva environment, yet how many times has yeshiva staff or leadership made that an articulated expectation? How many examples have been shared for staff who are
not necessarily prone to be savvy in that area?
Dear Teenage Neshomos, Please understand this isn’t your fault and you are not likely to change the institution you are attending in the few years you are there. It can have devastating effects on you if you go the nuclear route of anger, rage or resentment at teachers not caring about or understanding you. Seek out healthy people that care for you and can help. They exist and it’s so important that you find them. You’re nearly an adult and while this can seem overwhelming, Hashem gives you the kochos to do exactly this. Find the right person for you.… Read more »
In the yeshiva system, and I’ve been through a few, I noticed something interesting. The hanhalah, the mashpia, the bochurim Shluchim and mashgiach pick and choose. They’ll reach out to bochurim that excite them, which seem interesting to them. A couple yeshivas I was in the middle of the way, not over the top learning, but not near the bottom who looked interesting enough to need help, and then they’ll literally ignore you for an entire year. I saw it with me but I also took note and then realized that it was many many bochurim in the same boat… Read more »
Also in the girls schools do the hanhala pick and choose who they want to care about. The rest of the us average girls are just passing through every day, and the only thing they want to know is to “mark us off for attendance”
Yup.
Same w girls high schools only the popular girls that will hype things up are chosen to be involved etc. Everyone else is just pushing through the year
or they pick on the one ‘leader’ and say she is the one causing all the problems and she shud be kicked out….
true story.
maybe they can learn how to deal with it?
It is true that hanhala members mashpiem etc sometimes only speak to certain bochrim which may be taken as if they only care about those bochrim or that they only do it if those bochrim interest them but at the same time you have to realize that they are also regular people who have their interests and understand people with the same interests better than others and sometimes they just don’t understand or connect well with other bochurim so they could speak to bochurim that have different interests than them but they won’t understand feel or connect to them in… Read more »
Definitely!!! Teachers and machanecheses see either a popular girl with an easy life and say good morning and strike a conversation with her or they pick the total opposite ones, the struggling ones. Those who ‘are managing just fine’ get shoved by, never to have a little ‘yechidus ’ with the machaneches.
its literally not that hard to give everyone a bit of attention, give a smile, and ask how her day was!!!
Same for the girl school I went to. This is why I will not send my children to local schools iyh
When schools have to much kids then nobody gets the attention and personal love that they need. Kids need to feel comfortable and open with the teachers and get attention that they need. Schools like br girls don’t get enough attention because hey have so many teachers and the teachers have so many students.
That’s just fine with plenty (or some) girls. Not everyone wants individualized attention. not saying that’s good or bad just saying some girls like that
If teachers really cared enough about each individual, they would know that every girl has a life and responsibilities out of school too and wouldn’t give us an overload of unnecessary homework, quizzes, tests, projects etc. True, one needs to remember and practice what they learn, but it comes to a certain extent. Having over 10 teachers a day, each teacher assigns her own homework as if she’s the only class and then it all piles up. After sitting in school for the day which is exhausting in itself, you come home to an overload of overwhelming assignments. You end… Read more »
as a teacher who didn’t have it easy as a student, I ever give homework to my students. And all my students love me for that!
so teachers I have a secret tip for you: don’t give your students homework and they will listen and behave in class and love you forever.
trust me, they remember your care and love more than that Perek of Chumash you learnt/gave them for homework
Everyone always says how no one cares about you in school yadayada etc etc Right before I graduated 12th grade, there was a point where I suddenly had a realization. I went through every.single. teacher that I had the past -four- years ( and 4 years is a lot!), I went through them in my head, and I realized that not. one.- not 1! Of them cared about me. None of them knew who I really was. They all saw me as a student. not as a girl with a whole background and life. I couldn’t believe that after going… Read more »
All the good girls who follow the rules never get any attention but those girls who don’t give in their homework or act silly in class get it all
Boys are treated very differently than girls. Boys are treated like machines who are expected to do everything that was planned out for them from waking up in the morning to going to sleep at night. We weren’t allowed to have our own thoughts and feelings or entrusted with any decisions at all.
My daughters are treated much better, dare I say like human beings.
Generalizing 1 yeshiva or even 3 yeshivas you went to isn’t fair to compare to the rst of the yeshivas
Maybe ur daughters are lucky but in the school I went to, I was also expected to be a machine who comes to school every day from 9-4, concentrateing and getting good marks, not chilling or takeing life easy cuz Chas veshalom and after a long hard day having to go home and (I wish I could say re-energise for the next day) having to do allllll that homework that the 10 different teachers gave you cuz otherwise your sent to the principle
PULLEEEEEZEEEEE
GIVE US A BREAKKKK!!!!!
Every yeshivah pushes all buchrim to get a mashpia which does everything you said.
and they dont force one upon you for reasons you mentioned.
Sad but we do not have many teachers that are truly dedicated and caring, having good manners and menthlich.
Today everything about money … hanhalla made lots of email and calls – payment reminder, campaign emails, fundings etc but zero emails or calls of how is my kid doing
“And then the next article on collive is: why aren’t there enough people in the chinuch field who want to become teachers”. Teachers are human. So they will make mistakes over their career. Fully understood and hopefully the mistakes won’t have major adverse effects on their talmidim. And they don’t get paid alot and they also have families of their own that they owe their attention to. Also understood. However, when a teacher’s modus operandi is destructive, they owe it to either retire their career of destruction (almost never is it intentional, but the road to gehenom is paved with… Read more »
This is spot on and thank you for sharing your own personal story showing how easy it is to break someone unintentionally to the point of crushing their self esteem due to one lousy test.
What is the solution? Most people don’t have the luxury to just retire or change careers midlife. Option 2: “educate themselves to at the very least, of education best practices to ensure that they do no harm”. How many michanchim do you know that have done this? I can’t think of even one. So, what is the solution?
You took my quote ” and then the next article etc…” and you went into a deep conversation. Me personally I saw I wasnt doing well in my studies. I would study and fail over and over and over again. I told myself in 7/8 the grade either I save my sanity or lose it. After that i on purpose stopped studying and thus saved my sanity.
in my school we had test extremely often and one day I stayed home on a day that we had three tests and my principal shouted at me and embarrased me in front of my classmates and older girls. I skipped school any day of a test that the night before we had way too much homework and got in big trouble for it. I got depressed from all the stress of work and tests and stayed home from school for about a month and when I came back, the only welcome I got was “ oh so u decided… Read more »
It’s great to have a place to vent, but hanholo and school/teacher bashing publicly only makes things worse. The youth read this and it doesn’t help them. These letters are important but they should go on hanholo/ teacher groups which there are many of. The people who need to read this are not reading col. You will have much more effect by sending this to the right places. Not public bashing!! I am not in any way minimizing the importannce of what you are saying but this is not the place! Please try to get your message to the right… Read more »
God forbid a teenager would know that they are a human being entitled to dignity and not to be mistreated? If they thought prior that they were dreck, and reading the above sentiments will teach them that they’re worthy and entitled to be treated well, BH! And if they lash out with chutzpah you know they are in pain and you can start working with him/her on healing. It’s good for bochurim/girls to know that they are valuable and for the mechanchim to know. This is a great awareness to have. Not dirty laundry to sweep under the rug or… Read more »
I’m that student you described in the first paragraph.
but I need to correct you
you write “and if they lash out with chutzpah….”
most times I was just standing up for myself and saying something in a very respectful manner but the teacher obviously can’t see her self being wrong so has to tell me to be quiet ‘and stop being chutzpadig’
I’m in shock that col posted this. Thus disagreeing with adults in a respectful manner. Kudos to them! Teenagers/children are people with feelings of their own. Just like adults WANT, YEARN and DEMAND to be respected from their spouse children people around them, have good news for you – so do teenagers! It’s a respect on a different level but teenagers DO NOT GET ANY AT ALL! And then parents complain “WHY?????” give it and then you’ll get!
Kudos to Ohel Chana Los Angeles.Every girl can either can choose,or is assigned a Mechaneches. Once a month they meet with the girls. They can reach out to their Mechaneches if they choose to any time in between. The Mechanchois go out of their way to create a warm and trusting relationship. Many girls keep in contact with their Mechanchois way after high school. There has been a tremendous amount of positive feedback from parents, the girls, and the school.
Back in yeshiva, myself and a friend of mine got into a car accident motseh shabbos, all cars were a total loss, and we both ended up in emergency due to potential neck injuries, anyway BH we were both cleared and back in yeshiva the next day. Despite having communicated to our rabbis etc about the incident, after a day or two, it was like it had never happened. We were both quite traumatised by the incident, and had residual muscle pains and spasms for some time. I had been prescribed physical therapy for several weeks following, which required taking… Read more »
as a bochnr at ybds (New Haven) Masivuta,
I must say that hanholo are very dedicated and caring and always ask with the intention of helping,
And if someone doesn’t want to talk to them there are 10 shluchim who always ask and worry and make sure everything is okay
I am not 100% sure about everybody else but I personally went through a stage of having a hard time in yeshiva and showing it outwardly in an exaggerated way in order to get get called over by the menhahel because I was just looking for someone to ask me “how are you doing”. However that never happened. I’m not sure if this is a derech/strategy in chinuch; meaning that the menahel knows that the bochur is trying to get his “attention” and through the menahel “ignoring” him, the problems will fix themselves OR is it that he really is… Read more »
This mashpia does it like that if not better!
facts!!!!
When I had my experience in Yeshivah the Hanhala would only speak/care to me if I was Shoimer Hasdorim without me doing that forget it your a nobody in their eyes. there was a period where I was not being Shoimer Hasdorim ( in the morning) and It was in general a very hard time for me and I was begging the “mashpia” to at least hear me out what was going on and he called the next day 5/6 Bochurim to speak to one of which was annoyed by the fact he was always speaking to him yet didn’t… Read more »
In addition, it is 100% not acceptable that a menahel or a member of hanhola would “give up” on a bochur just because he isn’t the postcard one. I feel that it is either on one side of the extremes. Either the menahel cares about the boy who is uninterested and really does not care outwardly for yeshiva but he ignores the good ones OR the opposite: that he pays too much attention to the “good” ones but forgetting the “uninterested” ones. When these hanhola signed up for the rebbe’s shlichus in chinuch they made a promise to care for… Read more »
How do we think a Yeshiva often “produces” uncaring, unempathetic, even sometimes rude students/adults?! Of course not all are that way, but many, especially if their home life is similarly blind to unconditional support and communication, turn out to be ignorant of basic human respect and awareness. Very sad. Gives negative perception and renders stereotypical attitudes. Good trying is desperately needed!!
While all the feelings posted have truth to them we all agree we could do better. True, there are a number of teachers that genuinely care and show care to their students, we should all agree that they are those who did not necessarily enhance our experience in our studies. The affect of a student who is shown care and love will 100% succeed more than one whom is left to figure it out themselves, and is therefore encumbered upon any teacher that makes it thier mission in life to educate the next generation to prioritize the well-being of their… Read more »
In the yeshiva that I went to the hanholo always expected you to approach them they really called over a Bachur and when a bachur did approach them they wouldn’t try to make time for the next boy etc and there were times that things weren’t going easy and the only thing I wanted was to tell them was how I feel which I couldn’t and I had to deal with my emotions alone
Ps I also believe that the lack of communication leads to bachurim having a lot of resentment to hanholo
The truth is that this holds true in a vast array of human connection. There are those who feel that a yeshiva is an academic institution. There is no escaping the fact that imparting knowledge and learning skills is a central theme. Nonetheless, if your perception as an educator is that it’s your sole role, you are not only mistaking, you’re bound to destroy souls. The role of an educator is to nurture. Nurture their knowledge, their skills, absolutely! but if you forget to nurture the person, you may have succeeded in an element but failed the client. The same… Read more »
All my years in yeshivah I was always approached by anholah with questions like How are you doing or are you having a hard time learning very often and not in a way that I felt attacked but way of care and love.
It could be your yeshivah was different but a normal yeshivah like in my case Detroit made me feel much different.
-By someone who likes sharing the truth!