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Thursday, 17 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 25, 2024

Bochurim Are Judged by Their “Sitting Abilities”

Response op-ed: "These types of kids aren't going away; digging our heads in the sand and Mesivtas proclaiming they are for" serious learners, top bochrim" is only making the problem worse for everyone." Full Story

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Taxi Drivers and Barbers
March 30, 2023 11:03 pm

Only taxi drivers and barbers are the ones that know how to solve every problem.

Ask them and they will provide the solution to this problem and all other problems like achieving world peace etc.

Bochurim and girls
March 30, 2023 11:05 pm

Who go on their own path in life (OTD) because they experienced up front from “rabbis or rebbetzins” who are suppose to be role models in our community and people to look upto – did all that they can to act contrary to what Hashems Torah and our Rebbe ask of us. Not only that when they tried to say “you are incorrect “, they were faced with emtional abuse of “you are not chabad”, you are worthless, and have a mafia backup to finish that teen, to show him who’s boss. Ummm… yeah forget about they are referred as… Read more »

EXCUSE ME
March 30, 2023 11:05 pm

Are we just gonna ignore half of our population; the women?!?!?? Girls go through this issue too and for some it is never discussed. Honestly embarrassing

dude
Reply to  EXCUSE ME
March 31, 2023 11:07 am

one step at a time, we’re not tryna save the entire world.
besides, id gander that its worse for the bochurim than for the girls.

personally,
Reply to  dude
April 1, 2023 11:03 pm

coming from a mainstream crown heights high school, I can certainly say that there is a tremendous amount of girls struggling and you cant tell right away at all. But once you realize how common the struggles are, you are overwhelmed. I am constantly hearing about all the work and attention that is been given to boys schools and frustrates me greatly that we girls are not being seen as a importance/urgency at all.

Bochurim
March 30, 2023 11:06 pm

I only would want to marry a learning boy

Enough already!!!!
March 30, 2023 11:08 pm

How many families have not dealt with a broken child who felt the sting of rejection again and again?

And it’s getting worse, not better.

I’m sorry but all the justifications are getting tired.

Either we have a system for ALL of OUR boys ( similar to other chasidus communities ) or we have a elitist system ( similar to Lakewood)

Please, let’s stop pretending that we are all one family when we are clearly not when it comes to Mesivtas.

And here comes the excuses….

Open a Mesivta
Reply to  Enough already!!!!
March 31, 2023 1:26 pm

What is stopping you from opening a Mesivta? In your Mesivta ALL boys will be welcome. Have courage and actually do something about the problem. BTW according to many comments you will also get rich from the process, like all the other Mesivtas who are making so much money. So it will be a win win situation, your financial situation will be improved and Lubavitch will finally have a Mesivta that views us as one family. If you ask me why I don’t open a Mesivta? The answer is very simple, I was born in America a Malchus shel Chesed,… Read more »

Respectfully, there are just too many children
March 30, 2023 11:28 pm

The actual issue is that there are far more children than there are spaces in yeshivas, mesivtas and seminaries. The frum community produces a huge volume of children, every year, nonstop. There are so many children and teenagers, of course there is not enough room for them all!! There is simply just not enough space in yeshivas, mesivtas and seminaries to accommodate the massive volume of children. Please stop over-blaming the poor school administrators, we need to instead start having some adult conversations about this.

ask the rebbe
Reply to  Respectfully, there are just too many children
March 31, 2023 11:32 am

what do you think the rebbe prefers?

the rebbe encourages more and more yidishe kinderlach

so if one considers himself a moisad of the rebbe they should take in to consideration the growth of the community b’h .

welcome the growing community with love and happiness.

if you have a store and your getting more customers
would you close your door?
or
would you expand?

what woul the rebbe say?

Yes
March 30, 2023 11:42 pm

Thank you. May I just add that the words “if you don’t……. you can leave” should never be said by a staff member. Leaving Yeshiva is not an option, words matter.
There is no such a thing as a bad student, there are bad teachers. If you do not care for your students please do not try to teach.

RIGHT
Reply to  Yes
March 31, 2023 11:22 am

 If you do not care for your students please do not try to teach.

Stress & Mental break
March 30, 2023 11:51 pm

We need to create a curriculum from age zero, where kids can shine through, and where they can have mental suport and be treated as individuals, its never late but too late to strat from Yeshivah. Pressure is coming from the house- tuition, stress from parenting and kids see and observe it. We need to be positive as a family and as community first of all

Absolutely
March 31, 2023 12:07 am

Every word

Confused
March 31, 2023 12:18 am

I am confused. Why do we blame all the problems we have on the people in chinuch. They are the ones that care and invest every part of themselves into giving yiddishe chassidishe chinuch to all of our children. Instead of blaming them for our disappointments, and giving them all these great VERY impractical ideas that are easy to say but IMPOSSIBLE to implement. Why don’t we give a genuine thank you to all those people that are insanely invested into the rebbes inyanim and to all our children. And instead of writing opeds about the problems with the system… Read more »

Not the point
Reply to  Confused
April 1, 2023 8:43 pm

They’re not directed to the teachers, this is about the system itself and the hanhala

What a mess
March 31, 2023 12:58 am

The world must be turned upside down when the Chassidim are resembling the Misnagdim more every day. Did the Baal Shem Tov care about yichus or money? The Rebbe tells us to send all our boys to a ChaBaD institution over any other Jewish institutions even if the learning is lacking in comparison, not just the rich, the brightest, or the well known.

Misinformation
March 31, 2023 1:11 am

Did this mother even visit any Yeshiva ever? Every single Yeshiva is a place of simply learning Torah the whole day. If she wants her son to be accepted by the hanalah, he needs to be able to sit down and learn a blat Gemara. If he can’t, he is a fine boy, but you will need to open up a,”Yeshivas Beis Chabad” for him. He doesn’t fit into tomchei temimim!

WAKE UP
Reply to  Misinformation
March 31, 2023 11:19 am

WHAT YOUR SAYING WAS MABE VALID 50 YEARS AGO

A name doesn't change
Reply to  WAKE UP
March 31, 2023 5:08 pm

Last I checked, the name of these institutions is still “Yeshivos” meaning places which have people sitting and learning Torah.

Bochur
Reply to  Misinformation
March 31, 2023 12:54 pm

If you actually look at the original tomchei temimim you’d see not all of them were perfect Bochurim.
But there was a commen denominator: they all had potential and wanted to better themselves.
And as someone in Yeshiva, and has been to many Yeshiva, and has obviously many friends in other Yeshiva, I can tell you that at least 75% of the Bochurim do not use out all their time for learning.

A name doesn't change
Reply to  Bochur
March 31, 2023 5:21 pm

Stop asserting things that you have no way to prove. How did you “look at the buchurim in the original tomchei temimim” and be able to dispute the commenter that claimed (rightly) that in order to be able to learn there you must be able to sit and learn a blat Gemara. To the contrary, there is written evidence (in kuntres eitz chaim by the Rebbe rashab, who is truly a trustworthy source) that they learned Gemara for multiple hours continuously, without any breaks.

It's a known thing
Reply to  A name doesn't change
April 2, 2023 4:55 pm

That one of the major problems before chassidus was nisgaleh was the same thing, that only the good bachurim & lamdanim were accepted into the yeshivos.
All of the rest of the simple people were forced to stay am ha’aratzim & simple peddlers.

Then the Ba’al Shem Tov came around with chassidus & switched it, showing the precious beauty of every yid & how nobody is a good-for-nothing.

It follows, that part of it is to not only accept the certain ‘category’ of bachurim which the hanhalah appreciates, but to accept every chelek eloka’ah mima’al mamash..

A Parent
March 31, 2023 1:42 am

Well written and thoughtful article but incredibly naive. I had a very similar view as the author years ago before the naivety came crashing down and I now see things very differently. Without going into my harsh personal experiences, is the author aware of how many middle age Lubavitchers struggle deeply and are doing their best to work through issues? How many sholom bayis problems there are? Addiction problems? All kinds of issues that a caring person in mesivta could not have possibly resolved without the tools to even identify what is really going on? Issues that if they were… Read more »

Check for the Rebbe's words.....
March 31, 2023 2:16 am

I heard him say to take each child where and and they are!

Check for the Rebbe's words.....
March 31, 2023 2:17 am

(….. ,*where and how they are)

Mushka
March 31, 2023 2:50 am

Wow. On target 🎯

Wow!
March 31, 2023 4:53 am

Such a geuladig approach!
This is the torah chadosha of moshiach!

So true
March 31, 2023 6:22 am

100% agree

100% right
March 31, 2023 6:41 am

“The letter from the father of a dyslexic bochur is heartbreaking; how did we come to this, to be focused on the mosad instead of the survival of a bochur?” The DOR HAFLOGOH focused on The needs of the “Moisad” Their moto was “V’NAASEH LANU SHEIM” “WE WILL MAKE NAME FOR OURSELF” We will make sure to build a REPUTATION FOR OURSELF ___________________________ THE HOLY BAAL SHEM TOV TAUGHT US THAT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF A NESHAMAH COMING DOWN TO THIS WORLD FOR 70 – 80 YEARS IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DOING A FAVOR FOR ANOTHER YID. So a… Read more »

You too have criteria - just other criteria!
March 31, 2023 6:42 am

Your solution is not a real solution, all it does is change the problem, as you redefine what to call mainstream, without calling it mainstream.
Either way, you yourself acknowledge that not every Moisad can be everything to everyone.

Well said
March 31, 2023 7:56 am

Ty for writing this

Cannot agree more!
March 31, 2023 7:58 am

Beautifully said. I hope this talks straight to the hearts of those who run the yeshivas.
Thank you

Kan tziva
March 31, 2023 9:16 am

Some children need medication to help them focus or to deal with severe anxieties, etc. Parents need to be open as well to help their child to be at their prime for reaching their potentials. The mechanech cannot be effective for the child that has such a severe disorder. I heard from a professional about a family whose child had severe ADHD. They refused to medicate and the child spent many years in special education. When they eventually medicated their child so he was ready and able to learn and they realized how many years had been “wasted.” May we… Read more »

One of the best articles
March 31, 2023 9:41 am

So true and real.
Wish that members of the Hanahalas read this article before Krias Shma Sheal Hamito

These op-eds aren't realistic
March 31, 2023 9:45 am

I challenge every one of you that are sitting back and giving solutions to roll up ur sleeves and go work in chinuch. You will see very quickly the real world of chinuch, how they work so hard every day and how out of place all the backlash is It’s one of the most challenging jobs and there’s a reason not many of you are working in that field, and why it’s so hard to build up a good, full staff. I have sent my son who had some challenges to one of the biggest moisdim and I met many… Read more »

But that is still rare
Reply to  These op-eds aren't realistic
April 2, 2023 4:59 pm

True, there may be a few moisdos which actually care, however, that is not at all the majority of moisdos.

This is brilliant!
March 31, 2023 10:54 am

I’m an alumni from a school where the Hanhalah truly cared for every student. They gave each student a personal mentor hoping the students would have someone to be open with. However most of the students
Closed up to their mentors and resented the Hanhalah who truly cared. Why you may ask? Because as much as Hanhalah cared they lived by this cookie cutter allusion. No one wanted to fall out of the elitist club. The results is a bunch of “top girls” in my class not frum any more struggling with deeply emotional challenges.

Well said.
March 31, 2023 11:16 am

Agree with the Vort.
But what’s the problem with OCD?

Simply Demoralizing for those who work in Chinuch
March 31, 2023 12:19 pm

As a teacher of Mesivta who just finished the Zman it’s hard to express how demoralizing an op-ed like this is. My fellow Mechanchim and I have worked non-stop from the short Chanukah break. Literally 24/7 (out of town Mesivta) spending hours upon hours, late nights and early mornings, taking care of your children. טייערע Bochurim that were entrusted to us by their loving parents. We spent HOURS teaching, Shmoozing, mentoring and Farbrenging with your children. And YES dealing with their OCD’s, depressions and dealing with all their beautiful and sensitive Neshomos and YES with ALL the baggage they brought… Read more »

I don’t understand
Reply to  Simply Demoralizing for those who work in Chinuch
March 31, 2023 1:41 pm

If you are a caring teacher then obviously this article doesn’t refer to you.
If you said something insensitive to a student did you later go and speak to him and apologize.
We are not expecting malachim but menchlichkeit IS expected.

Simply Demoralizing for those who work in Chinuch
Reply to  I don’t understand
March 31, 2023 1:49 pm

Of course I would apologize. What’s the question. These articles paint broad brushes across the system. Top qualified talent don’t want to touch Chinuch in Chabad by a 10 foot poll, they say that it’s an underpaid and thankless job. Articles like these don’t help.

teachers need suport too!

teachers need support, and many are not getting it, as seen in this post.

Parents…
March 31, 2023 1:04 pm

Yeshivas and Mesivtas provide Chinuch and a framework for academic achievement together with Chassidisher Hashkafa. Part of that Chassidosher Hashkafa is the Teiyerkeit of every Bochur and Ahavas Yisroel with no judgement. While it would be beautiful for Hanhala to “look out” for issues in their Bochurim, they are not therapists, neither claim to be one. The major shift that needs to happen here is that us PARENTS need to see it as our responsibility to educate our children (yes, we pay a school to teach them during the day) but the education is primarily our responsibility, and the same… Read more »

Regarding the issue of medication
March 31, 2023 1:28 pm

I believe the original author referred to his son who has dyslexia. There is no medication for dyslexia.
Also, regarding being disheartened, I am sure there are many educators who care and attend to their students accordingly. I think the issue is about the negative side of the situation, which is that there are uncaring and ignorant educators who can do harm. And this is unacceptable!

JETS & WILKSBERRY
March 31, 2023 2:06 pm

That’s why JETS AND WILKS exist

Simple. Hanhalah ruchanis has to learn from
March 31, 2023 3:44 pm

Hanhalah ruchanis NEEDS to learn from the hanhalah gashmiis. How many times already happened (and it did) that a struggling parent get an email saying “better pay all what we are charging you [mind you, often much more, way much more than a local so can pay for the rest of school system, mesivta and school etc]or we kick your kid out”. Imagine an hanolah ruchniis working this way? How much will be accomplished? But its very easy to dismiss ruchanis work “this is how we work/ dont tell us what to do/ your son is a failure and its… Read more »

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