A COLlive reader named Moshe Shor from North Miami Beach, Florida, sent the following:
If you purchased a Chabad style tallis Gadol in the past few years advertised as “Argentinian Wool” from the company Talitav, check the corners.
Many of them were found to be tied in an possuldike (invalid) way, with only 3 of the 4 required original long strings threaded through the main hole and the 4th one inserted separately into the smaller hole and then double knotted.
This makes the whole tallis posul (forbidden for use). Wearing such a tallis involves daily recitation of a Brocha Levatola, continuous transgression of Mitzvas Tzitzis, and carrying on Shabbos.
The affected corners need to be untied, all tzitzis strings completely removed, and re-inserted properly by threading all 4 original strings into the main big hole (before insertion, one must verbalize that it’s being done “l’sheim Mitzvas Tzitzis”).
A double knot must be made, and only thereafter (inserting the Shamesh in the small hole before the first double knot pasels the tallis), threading the longer Shamesh string through the small hole closer to the edge, thereby completing the first 3 crucial steps of tying tzitzis to a tallis godol. (More can be found in Sefer haMinhogim etc.)
I have verified the pesul (invalidation) with leading Chabad rabbonim from across the globe, among them Crown Heights Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba, Cholon Chief Rabbi Yochanan Gurary (who also wrote a sefer on tzitzis), Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Feigelstok of Argentina, Rabbi Leibel Shapiro and Rabbi Yosef Marlow of Miami, FL.
UPDATE:
Mendi Eliav, owner of Talitav, has written the following:
I would like to clarify that we sell the taleisim to a distribution store (not only one) with the tzitzis (strings ties to the talis).
Each one of them sends the teleisim to assemble the tzitzis to different bochurim.
So first, it’s hard for me to believe that there’s a lot of taleisim like this.
Second, this has nothing to do with the Argentina taleisim. It could happen to any talis.
of the 5 mispallelim who have NEW Argentinian taleisim 2 were found to be posul. It happans to be that these 2 did not buy their taleisim in the same Crown Heights store as the other 3.
[All other taleisim and the older Argentinian taleisim were found to be kosher].
I have also seen where all 4 are put through the first hole and the shames put through the small hole BEFORE all 4 are tied, this is also incorrect and most likely posul. When you buy: 1: all 4 should be in the first hole and then 2 knots tied. 2: should be tied just past the end of the garment, should NOT bunch up (you see this with some of the new tallesim as well) 3: preferably no glue (doesn’t help for kashrus and just makes you lax in checking your tallis) When you check you tzitzis here… Read more »
stop being so dramatic just do what you can to fix it now and GOD forgives thew unwitting.
I took my tallis to a well known Rabbi in Morristown and 2 of 4 corners are possul. How does one do Teshuvah for years of Brocho Levatalahs and carrying on Shabbos. I am profoundly upset and did not need any more dirt on my clothes more than I have already from before I became frum. Why did the Beis Din not publish something about this earlier? If there is hole in the ground you put a sign so no one Chas V’Shalom gets hurt. I strongly distrust many who work in Avodas Kodesh and will only buy unpainted battim… Read more »
up for any aggravation we may have caused to the owner of the talitav company. stores that put tzitzis on should have an hechsher that checks the bochrim knowledge and iras shomaim before they are allowed to do the tzitzis, and check if the tzitzis were done properly after before going on the shelf to be sold., Or perhaps just a picture showing how is it supposed to look, so people can check before buying so there is no extra expense.
it would be nice if one of the rabbis own up to this issue and explain clearly if it is truly invalidated by tying it this way.
The headlines and the article is against everything we supposed to learn from sefiras haomer and from Rosh chodesh Sivon. By this you are yored lechayov from a family that for many many years put many koches in making koshere talesim. This talesim are kosher lemehadrin and have no shayle whatsoever. Just because the tzitzis that were put wronly were found in Argentinean taleisim does not make the Talitav taleisim posul. It’s like saying that certain brand name meat is treif because a piece of it was found cooked in a milchike pot.
With the recent disaster (Los Angeles meat scandal) and now this; it’s time to check EVERYTHING! Tzitzis,Tallaisim, Tefillin, Mezuzos, Megillas, Kashrus, you name it.
It behooves me to clarify that the purpose of my public notification was not to Chas ve’Sholom defame any particular company. It was solely to be Mezake the Tzibbur and take away an existing Michshol which can occur to any Lubavitch Tallis irrespective of the maker/company. The name of the company was mentioned only because the Talleisim that were found with the P’sul mentioned in the article on a widespread scale originated from that company. The question of blame wasn’t a factor when Rabbonim encouraged me to publicize the issue. It was about alerting current owners of Talleisim from that… Read more »
What you write is opposite of Torah, the meaning of Shavout and the Rebbes directives. NaaSah V’Nismah. We will do the mitzvos and then we will learn more about them. If some folks did not know all the Halachas of how the strings on the Alter Rebbes Tallis are to be tied and bought the Tallis from a reputable source in Crown Heights you do not insult and blame him. You need to learn Chassidus and have some Ahavas Yisroel young fellow. If you feel you are not a Baal Teshuvah then you need to learn Igeres Hateshuvah my little… Read more »
What you wrote is not appropriate. Multiple frum from birth people here got burned (and I was acutually Modern Orthodox so I did to Chabad with some leaning) and thought they were buying something mehadrin that was passul. This is Tallis was 12 years old and I never heard a peep about this issure from anyone. If a Jew buys a tallit and spends a good sum of money at a reputable store in Crown Heights he expects it should at lesast be b’dieved at least and if you spent the money I spent on one of these expensive Talllis… Read more »
I have always used and never had any problem. I always bought directly from Argentina have always been done the right way I think absurd people accusing the manufacturer before checking with him about the problem The next time I buy a rotten apple in a store should I complain to the tree? Please think very well before you write … People have already begun to criticize without reason Congratulations to Mendy Feldman for his initiative and please check the shop from which you purchased the Tallit because there must be many others to be sold this way both manufactured… Read more »
Mendi Eliav: Please post the Hechsher of Talitav Talaisim, for the actual Talis.
MY NAME IS MENDEL FELDMAN I will retie any Argentinian or other talis that was tied pasul for NO CHARGE . I can be reached at : 718 249 3811 or [email protected] Thank you Bbrochos Kabolos Hatorah Bsimcha Ubipnimius
you sound like a baal tshuvah. maybe learn about the mitzvos you are meant to practice and then do them right. stop relying on others that you will later blame
Go Moshe!
Thank you for posting a solution to the problem .Mendel Feldman already fixed my talis.
His number is 718 249 3811 .
is very easy to discredit a company that for many years did and do Kosher taleisim. I think if Hashem chas al mamonam shel Israel and this can happen to anyone, you can worn about this without saying the name of the company,
As post 20, 3 of the 4 corners on my Argintinia tallis are possul and have been wearing this Tallis for 13 years now. I am just sick to stomach. Why did the bais din wait so long to publish this. We had to wait a guy from Miami to tell us this.
What did the beis din wait so long. Big big sin and I am very upset. If you see problem make it know.
Signed,
Disgusted and I got that Tallis for my weding have been wearing it for 12 years. Pha
it is in the interest of the public for one of the rabbonim listed to issue an advisory about this for the benefit a.s.a.p. of the public, it is not enough to rely on an article of an individual quoting rabbonim.
So the title should be “problems with all talisei godoil” since the knots are being made here.
i am a shliach in brasil and i knou very wel the owners of talit av and they are pepole with lots of yras shomaim could be in the states or some were else the mistake hapend ..and the quality of the talaisim is excelent no kned to post this ad in col
My name is Mendel Feldman .I am tying tziztis for over 20 years. This is all the fault of the stores for paying $1.50 per Talis to the “bauchurim” who undercut the tying of tzitzis. when you pay for a service you get what you pay for .barouch hashem finaly something is coming out. at the same time I will like to mention that on the CHILDRENS WOOL TZTITZIS the strings are all MACHINE MADE , NOT AVODAS YAD.when you are paying full price for something you should recieve what you pay for not a product that a chabad chasid… Read more »
You got the letter of Mendy Eliav OWNER of Talitav , Rabbi Osdoba and the above Rabboin are not against TALITOV CO. they are against the way the TZITZIS were put in , he doesn’t make the TZITZIS in the TALIS ,he only makes the TALIS, , there are peaple who need money , and they are sub contractors for the distributer , they made that mistake , this can happen to any Talis made in USA or ISRAEL , its nothing to do with a Argentinien Talis, TALITOVE company is as good as any other company , and in… Read more »
You should have pictures of a kosher corner (clearly labeled) and a not kosher corner, also clearly labeled.
Checked my argenentian talis and found it had 3 strings…not 4 alsong with three other people in minyan…it isn’t a good excuse that it is “bochorim’s fault”. Whoever sold these talisim should offer any purchaser to correct the problem. Its bad enough that we all made brocha levatalas, failed to be makiem mitzvah asehs, and were mechalel shabbos….least that can be done is apologize and offer to correct the problem.
Indeed I also find that in my Argentinian talis there was only 3 strings inserted, unfortunately I didn’t notice this for over a year . Horav Osdoba and all 5 Rabbonim (all famous M”TZ in their communities) are indeed right.
if you tied your own tzistzis, you wouldn’t have this problem. in the old days, everyone tied their own, or relied on someone they knew to tie them…..we are losing our most basic skills…
I think you are wrong! you are meant to check that the 4 strings are complete where going thru the whole of the beged as the photo shows.
It’s hard to notice unless you know how to make tzitzis. the first time I tied a talis It was very difficult to see how it was done. also people figure it’s supposed to be that way since there is a 2nd hole.
In my Argentinian Talis all 4 strings were inserted in the main hole, and after the nut one string-the shamesh was inserted in the small hole properly , However in one corner the shamesh was not inserted in the small hole, its kosher but definitely NOT our Minhag, I noticed it the first day I put it on (this year Pessach) I returned it to the Judeica store CH who gladly changed it for me. I’m posting this, ( bc B”H I never had a problem with American or Israeli Talessim, and here the first one is with problems, and… Read more »
I bought one just two years ago and it’s perfectly kosher with all four strings going thru the bigger whole. By writing in the last few years it sounds like a few more then two… Please verify with company as to when this mistake started.
Please verify 100% before posting. You need to be more careful!
Did you not read the name of Rabbonim in the article who gave the psak. Why don’t you call them up and see if they agree with you.
to number 9 the tying of tzitzis is usually organised privately or by the sellers and that part is not under any hechsher.. maybe from now on they should
I am not sure if Talitav has any Hechsher, it is definitely not under Rabbi Feigelstock’s hechsher. It is important to make sure that any Talis is under a good Hechsher, you want to make sure that it’s Kosher & that it was put together Leshem Mitzvas Tzitzis.
WORTHWHILE INVESTIGATING….ARGENTINIAN TALEISIM ARE USUALLY SOLD WITHOUT TZITZIS IT IS USUALLY THE SHOPS THAT ORGANISE THE TYING OF TZITZIS WHOEVER TIED THE TZITZIS WRONG COULD BE TYING THE TZITZIS WRONG FOR OTHER TALEISIM BE THEY AMERICAN ISRAELI OR ARGENTINIAN BUT THANKS FOR THE WARNING
Isnt Talitav under Rav Feigelstock?
of the correct way it is supposed to look
if you check the alter rebbes sidur hilchos tzitzis you will see that in the time of the gemoroh they used to tie the tzitzis that way!!!
so how can you say beshot nefesh that it is posul?
you should correct it to say that it is posul according to many poskim and therefore it should be changed.
most people check only the strings from the last knot down, and not from the hole. I’ve gotten a tallis with the wrong number of chulios, but it’s only b/c I looked the first day I got it.
very simple: majority of people have no clue how it should look and would think that this is how it’s supposed to be.
No, you typically only check for two things on a daily basis:
1. The knots are firm. (except on Shabbos and Yomtov)
2. The strings are separated.
I still agree with you, however, that if people were versed in the Halachos, they would likely have noticed this.
First of all, you should check the corners whenever you by ANY Tallis Gadol or Tallis Katan.
Second of all, you are supposed to check them every day!
Now, did this happen only to this particular Tallis, or was it a whole bunch of Argentinian ones?
This is something done by hand, and this can happen in any batch from any company.
Aren’t you supposed to check the tzitzis ievery day before making the bracha? how is it that people have been wearing this for the past few years and no one noticed till now?