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Wednesday, 10 Shevat, 5783
  |  February 1, 2023

‘Any Minyan These Days is Forbidden According To Halacha’

In response to some sporadic minyanim being held, Miami Rabbi Leibel Schapiro stated that is is "forbidden to organize a minyan for prayer - inside a shul or outdoors, or in any other place." Full Story

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Question
April 2, 2020 4:38 pm

What if they stand apart?
Just curious and asking with respect.
If people are allowed to go shopping but need to make sure they stand a few feet apart, can’t they have an outdoor minyan where everybody stands a few feet apart?
Again, I am asking honestly and with respect, would love to know the answer
Thank you

Spacing
Reply to  Question
April 2, 2020 6:36 pm

The problem is people do not stand far enough apart and vulnerable people do not stay home the only way to protect people from themselves is to ban it completely. Actually I think all those who still think they should have a minion or classic chassid shota. Are you so particular to always daven three times a day with a minyan normally? I presume you having a wish hatzolah breaking Shabbos even for a relatively minor risk to health that is surely far more severe than not having a minyan why is there even a thought that you should have… Read more »

Honest answer
Reply to  Question
April 2, 2020 7:00 pm

The answer is that going grocery shopping is part of the same mitzvah as staying at home. Both are to keep you safe and healthy. You need to eat in order to live. Obviously if someone is not well or elderly this should be done for them. Davening with a minyan in this case is the violation of this mitzvah, or at the very least not helping this mitzvah. That’s the difference. As to why we should not put ourselves in danger for a minyan as some generations may have done in the past for other mitzvos, please consult rabbonim… Read more »

Then vs now
Reply to  Honest answer
April 3, 2020 7:12 am

There’s a difference between mesiras nefesh and pikuach nefesh. Mesiras nefesh is when there’s an outside force trying to prevent you from doing mitzvos. Aka a government. In that case yes you must do the mitzvos even especially under risk of death. But the situation nowadays is pikuach nefesh. It’s very different. Davening with a minyan now would put peoples lives in danger, and would not be a kiddish hashem at all. There’s only three exceptions for pikuach nefesh and minyan IS NOT one of them.

No lies
April 2, 2020 4:46 pm

If you want to post stuff about Rabbonim allowing outside minyonim on porches etc. then state the name of the supposed Rov along with a link to the psak. The lies are getting out of hand and there’s a real cost in human lives.

Porch's
Reply to  No lies
April 2, 2020 7:42 pm

We have a minyan on the porch’s. each one stands on their own porch. We asked the Rov and he said its fine as long as we stay on the porch’s and do not publicize the minyan.

No Porches
Reply to  Porch's
April 3, 2020 8:57 am

By having a minyan on your porches, OUTSIDE!!! is the exact definition of publicity! Who’s to stop other from coming and joining and it getting out of hand. Some people unfortunately do not realize that it has to stop there and they take things further and then too far.

CH Cynic
Reply to  Porch's
April 3, 2020 9:39 am

There is a separate issue with that. According to Halacha, A minyan must be together, physically. Not spread around a large area. Each one standing on their own individual porch, regardless if you can hear or not, would not constitute a Minyan

Yossel
April 2, 2020 5:09 pm

What do the Rabbonim of Crown Heights say? Thete haven’t been any recent updates on outdoor minyanim

No change
Reply to  Yossel
April 2, 2020 7:41 pm

There haven’t been updates because the psak hasn’t changed. It’s still ossur.

and what about going shopping?
April 2, 2020 5:36 pm

and what about going shopping @ Walmart?

Don’t go shopping for unecessary things
Reply to  and what about going shopping?
April 3, 2020 7:14 am

Food and other necessities are the only reasons people should be going shopping. Additionally only one person per family should go, limit of 50 people in the store, and stay a distance from everyone and wear mask and gloves.

What about outside hotspot
April 2, 2020 5:52 pm

Like outside new york

WORLDWIDE
Reply to  What about outside hotspot
April 2, 2020 10:05 pm

as in everywhere. even outside NY. (and this was written by a rav in MIami so your answer is right there)

Oh really
April 2, 2020 5:55 pm

Meanwhile, I saw a countless number of bouchrim across the street from & near 770 in tefillin and davening with a minyan. Obviously I have adhered to these rules, but some people don’t want to listen.

Minyan
April 2, 2020 6:51 pm

I am unfortunately not one to be so careful about Minyan in any case. But he does raise a good point. If they figured a way to go shopping. And they figured a way to have takeout restaurants. And they figured a way to run hospitals. Why cant they figure a way to run minyanim?????? …. why does it bother everyone so much? Why dont they view it as mandatory as food and grocery shopping???? This is spiritual food and spiritual grocery shopping..
Just asking ( for a friend )

Wondering
Reply to  Minyan
April 2, 2020 7:25 pm

Did you figure how to go shopping for life sustaining supplies (e.g. food) while staying in your house?
Please trust Rabbi Shapiro!

They tried
Reply to  Minyan
April 3, 2020 7:16 am

Outdoor minyanim were allowed for a few days. But people can’t be trusted and people were too close, vulnerable people were joining, etc. The rabbanim know what they’re doing.

Kop Doktar
April 2, 2020 6:53 pm

On my block, 10 neighbors park their cars one behind the other. We each get into our car, keep the doors and windows closed and daven till Yishtabach. When the chazen is at Yishtabach, he sends a text message to the minyan in their cars. We each open our car windows a crack, the chazzan says kaddish and barchu, and we go to Shomei Esrei. The same is for chazoras Hashatz. We daven sitting but in a minyan! Monday and Thursday, the baal Korei leins from th trunk while we all listen. Whoever gets an aliya, drive his car next… Read more »

joke?
Reply to  Kop Doktar
April 2, 2020 7:37 pm

is this a joke or serious?

WHERE IS THIS URGENT MINYAN NEED COME FROM?
Reply to  Kop Doktar
April 2, 2020 8:22 pm

it’s the same issue again and again.
trying to outsmart the rabbonim. that’s the problem!!!
The Rabbonim have taken everything into account and paskened across the board -NO MINYAN. Why do people have this need to outsmart them?
it’s clearly the work of the Yetzer Hora!! why when it comes to other clear inyonim in Shulchan Aruch we don’t see the same Hidur?
Think about it!! and yes LISTEN WITH KABOLAS OL!!

Chill Hashem
April 3, 2020 12:23 am

The mayor of the city of New York has banned praying in synagogues etc. Unfortunately
it is the Chassidishe Jewish communities that have caused a chilul hashem and formed minyanim publicly. I wish everyone would stop being so “frum” and start listening to our Rabbonim. We will iyh be davening together very soon by the Bais Hamikdash hashlishi.

A successful example
April 3, 2020 3:01 am

This city closed grocery stores, had outdoor minyanim, and got rid of new cases.
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-kiryat-yearim-successfully-kicks-coronavirus-out-1001324115?fbclid=IwAR0NxvXCYfOdzC0lJ-vWefIxpVwAk3odHpRaFxlBa4S8wqxLK2NosDyjrG8
I asked my Rav could I go near a balcony minyan to answer, he said “use your judgement/ make sure to practice social distancing.” Then “I’m not officially saying this minyan is allowed because I don’t know if they are following social distancing etc. only answering you and your specific situation.”

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