Crown Heights Beis Din Rabbis Avrohom Osdoba, Shlomo Segal and Yitzchok Raitport have signed a letter of support to new guidelines for women’s dress.
A letter in English and Hebrew accompanies the “standardized Tznius guidelines,” compiled by Nshei Ubnos Chabad, which was mailed to all the homes in the neighborhood.
“Tznius of a woman is not merely a matter between her and G-d, but rather a matter that affects her entire household,” they wrote. “Moreover, the Tznius of a woman affects not only her but also her offspring for generations to come.”
For this reason, they “join our names to the standardized Tznius guidelines issued by Rabbonei Chabad of Eretz Hakodesh on Rosh Chodesh Elul 5775.”
The guidelines include a list of items of clothing which should and should not be worn by women and girls in the neighborhood.
The guidelines range from general: “clothes should be respectable and tasteful, with colors and patterns that are not highly unusual, and made of materials that do not cling to the body, are not transparent, and are not the same color as the body,” to specific: “The skirt should be at least 10 centimeters – 4 inches – over the knee.”
Some other guidelines include color of nail polish – “natural color of nail,” length of wig – “should not reach past the shoulders,” and shoes – “should not draw attention and should reach up only to the ankle.”
These guidelines were originally instituted in Israel, and signed on by Israeli Rabbonim Rabbis Zev Dov Slonim, Yitzchok Y. Yeruslavsky, Avrohom Michoel Halperin, Yosef Hecht, Eliyahu Yochanan Gurary and Menachem Mendel Gluckowsky.
A recent list of similar guidelines, instituted by Crown Heights girls school Bnos Menachem, was shared in the media, many complaining the school was overstepping its role.
The Rebbe was asked – what is the required minimum halachic standards of tznius in dress length for a Jewish girl/woman. The Rebbe answered that the length of dress has to be such that it covers the knees when standing and sitting. He also added that if a woman lives in a community where people are more stringent than these standards, one needs to be more stringent as well. The Rebbe did not write that the dress length had to be four inches below the knees. This letter was written to someone in the 1960’s, when the mini skirts were… Read more »
As a (Lubavitcher) Rov in a non Lubavitch community, I am amazed at the arguments and bickering. If you feel that you must comment (positive ones are appreciated and negative comments won’t change my love for you) on my post, please do so. Is it because “The Rabbonim” are trying to instill “Halachick standards”? Is this something new? (Rabbonim know that there will always be some opposition on matters affecting the masses) Opposition usually comes from people who are non conformists, uneducated or misguided. Is Tzinius an issue? It definitely is! In every community! As a Yungerman, I spent Rosh… Read more »
i am a thirteen year old girl, as the “new generation” and part of the future of am yisroel, reading this article, and its hundreds comments makes me realise WHAT AN EMBARRASSMENT THIS IS & personally, having studied most the halochos on tznius (i have ways been interested in the womans role in yiddishkeit) i am well informed, and CHOOSE TO TAKE ON WHATEVER I MUST, BUT NOT SOME FANATICAL’S IDEA OF TZINIUS! THAT SHOULDNT BE FORCED UPON ANOTHER JEW, AND it is exactly those finatics that are turning this generation off yiddishkeit. V’heishiv lev avos al banim — the… Read more »
The requirements for Tznius at your child’s school • The first lady and her step-daughter looked like twins in veils and black, long sleeve dresses that fell below the knee to meet Pope Francis. • When Queen Elizabeth met with Pope Francis in 2014, she wore a lavender number and accessorized with a coordinating hat, adorned with flowers and white gloves. • Melania and Ivanka opted not to wear headscarves while visiting Saudia Arabia recently. • While in Israel this week, the Trumps visited the Western Wall, the holiest site where Jews can pray. Ivanka Trump, who converted to Orthodox… Read more »
“What about all the baalei teshuva visiting Crown Heights or those not yet on the level to keep to these standards?”
The problem, for the most part, is NOT the baalei teshuvah. They dress more tzniusdik.
V’heishiv lev avos al banim — the Rebbe’s explanation — The “parents” will learn from the “children.”
if this is what the comments sound like…we have a serious prob!
To#226 dont exagerate by calling it a decree give us a break ,is a hechsher on a store a decree, no! the mitzvos are decrees from god he is the melech if you dont obey him it could get scary change before its too late lalter teshuva lalter lgeula
i read many of the comments and i feel that this is like a debate! and it doesnt have to be! we are one nation, we are trying to bring moshiach, thats the final goal! these rabbanim made these rules to let us know clearly how to be tznius. they didnt do it for the fame, or for anything else! they did it so that women can follow it, TO BE TZNIUS AND BRING MOSHIACH! those who are against this, know the truth, and those are the ppl who dont follow these rules 100% and just dont want to admit… Read more »
Wow # 223, way to win people over, tell them this is the way it’s going to be, end of story, And that’s exactly the problem. Instead of anyone talking about “how can we inspire the people in the community especially the young boys and girls , that ANYTHING in Halacha (in this case tzinius) is for their own benefit (Of course it’s for g-d’s sake primarily but we need to start with the self and build from there so that the self can comprehend g-d, not my concept the Alte Rebbe’s) and not because some rabbi in an office… Read more »
This whole excuse of blaming it on the rabbonim we all know that its false,its your resistance to taking a good honest look at yourself and admitting your not keeping tznius properly these are halachos nothing to blame rabbonim for
In response to the argument that Is Immodesty an Expression of Cruelty? the main thing is one’s midos and not what one wears, the Rebbe responded (12 Tamuz 5730): “Not only is dressing immodestly against the way of Torah, it is against the overall proper path, common morals, and simple logic. Conducting oneself immodestly, by revealing parts of the body that should be covered, is done to provoke the other’s yetzer hara, his undesirable side. It does not accomplish that the other person will use his mind more effectively, nor does it better his emotions. It will not improve his… Read more »
Everybody who asks “where are the sources. its not Torah!” go flaunt your am haratzus elsewehere.
I guarantee the women that put on make up and wear long wigs wouldn’t do so if they were stuck on an uninhabited island. I’m telling you, all the men on Kingston avenue thank you for dressing the way you do.
As far as blaming it on the infighting, there is plenty of infighting in the kosher industry. Should we stop keeping kosher as well?
In merit of all the righteous comments fighting to protect kedushas yisroel from evil forces we should see moshiach now
just do it! Do it for the tremendous Brochos that the Rebbe so clearly spelled out to us. Do it for your family’s health,nachas, parnassah. Do it for protection of Klal yisroel. We have so much power through this Mitzvah. Lets not deprive ourselves of the tremendous ruchnius and gashmiusdike benefits ! It is such a struggle precisely because it is so powerful,
crowd. it is for such “frum yetzer haras” we say in maariv, vehaser satan …… meiachareinu.
Just because there are serious problems (e.g. monsters, impersonating human beings – yes the Rabbonan should address that) in other areas of life here; this does not negate the importance of tznius. The Rambam states that just because someone is wrong in one thing – you don’t assume that he is wrong in everything. He deserves credit for what he does right, and rebuke for the wrong. So, let’s say that the allegations of the Rabbbanan failing to address other issues plaguing our community are correct,, this does not mean that we have a right to disregard their call for… Read more »
To #217,you sound insulted hmmmm bec maybe you are the problem ,saying halacha guidelines isnt bad mouthing people and your trying the derech eretz card on the tznius issue avoiding this problem and how do we know you have derech eretz ,your perfect in character of course!
Very interesting. Creating guidelines for Tznius, hmm, I honestly do appreciate this. I certainly think 1 thing should be incorporated in any guidelines, “Derech Eretz Kadma Ltorah” something I find to be exceptionally hard to understand why Rabbis are not trying to set forth guidelines for humanity which to me if far more important than anything. I think the world suffers due to language, animosity for no reason- the reason why Temple was destroyed. We really should start from the core problem, once people have that solved or at least try , the receptiveness toward refinement of Tznius will be… Read more »
If you get married and are still not tznius you will now be doing worse sins by exposing your hair and your body as an aishes ish. You will also be over on Das Moshe And Das Yahadus. So do everyone a favor and only get married if you will be tzniusdik. If a man marries you he will now have a part in your terrible sins so watch out men before jumping in with a non tzniusdik girl
a bochur asks a “frum” woman if she would like shabbos candles…
Go figure
What about open breastfeeding on the streets and in stores… Is that tznius?
#1: “shemos 3:22 Clear possuk from the Torah that says the Yidden should wear the Egyptians clothing.” I had to smile when I read this because the exact opposite is true–the Meforshim point out that “S’malos” (clothing) is written after gold and silver in the Possuk, because Acharon Acharon Chaviv–the Egyptians were even more reluctant to part with their clothing than with their precious metals when the Yidden asked for them, because they knew the Noshim Tzidkoniyos would alter them to conform to Tznius and the Egyptians would never be able to wear them again! #98: What a beautiful poem,… Read more »
Almost all BT’s and even some ‘geirem’ have very similar backgrounds and family history. Some even have a few very old photos of frum, even chasidic forbears! Hope some of the naysayers will get the message before it’s too late. None of our ancestors dreamed their seemingly small infractions would result ultimately leaving them ‘zero’ future Jewish descendants.
Or a Lubavitcher woman. The men at least wear a yarmulke but the woman are indistinguishable
People in ch these days are doing things that would even make some goyim shake their heads. Believe me the problem is way beyond how long the sleeves are
The wonderful website ‘therebbesletter.com’ provides us with
The original full letter the Rebbe wrote regarding Tznius to the Neshei Ubnos
Chabad convention in Eretz Hakodesh in the year 5728
As a BT I grew up hearing all the reasons why my grandparents “freiyed out” – this one wanted to get out of the Bronx, that one was too “sophisticated” to be frum, the other one needed to make money… they all had at least one “really mean” relative who was frum. And EVERYONE wanted to fit in with the chic, stylish “upper class” culture in New York. Frumkeit was ‘old school’… It took about 2 generations but most of my cousins (30s and 40s) are now married to goyim – if they’re married at all – and it all… Read more »
Let’s remember the three concepts of why the Jewish people were redeemed out of egept,1 they were tznius,2 kept their Jewish names,3 they kept their language! !!
If your wife doesnt keep tznious you are sharing her body with the rest of the men on the street
WHAT IS BEING ACCOMPLISHED BY THIS LETTER FROM THE RABONIM?
And be honest!
I highly suspect that some negative commentators on this site are actually not even Lubavitchers and are just using this site as a place to bash. The underlying value system that we are Lubavitchers and we follow what the rebbe says is what needs to guide our decisions. If there are commentators not from chabad and don’t care what the rebbe says, please find somewhere else to flaunt your trashy ideas.
Go to visit Eli, which is a yeshuv in the Shomron. You will see women dressed exactly the way you describe. Now you would think that in such a low pressure environment, no one would rebel or push back or decline to follow in their parent’s footsteps but yet, a high percentage do. I don’t know what the reason is, other than that Eli is a very sheltered yishuv and when kids leave to go into army service or college, they don’t all come back frum. I was just on a website where the topic was something concerning modern Orthodoxy… Read more »
The tznius problem in Chabad could be a symptom of the unhealthy body image that you refer to. Trying to uphold those standards are not the cause of the problem. And I agree with #195, I don’t know what ‘healthier approach to tznius’ you are referring to. The impression I get from my friends in other frum communities is that they all see Chabad women as lacking in tznius (and probably the guys too but we don’t talk about that). Those communities tend to have higher standards. The adherence might be better because the communal pressure is greater. In other… Read more »
Finally the rabanim are coming out, its about time that something needs to be done, But I think that the the Shluchim & Shluchos they need to be an example to the other people how you need to be dressed, at most on the wigs and the neckline there is lack of tznius.
When you date please show the girl this comment so she can make an informed desicion.
It’s about time. All the modern ‘Chabad light’ who have taken over Crown Heights have no place here. They are more than welcome to leave to the Five Towns and other modern towns. here we want to follow the Rebbe and dress like Chasidim.
A side benifit from tehm leaving is rent might go down too.
I see this with my own eyes your comment truly sums up that issue in the community. It’s time for the next generation to learn a trade or have a profession so they can support their family because the sluchos boat is full !!!!!!!!!
I think you are seeing things in very back and white. There are many communities in which tznius is adhered to in a less dogmatic way. The women might not cover their legs( chumra for many) but they are dressed modestly., and look classy. Just because you adhere to more stringent rules does not mean your children will follow your way of life and your level of yiddishkeit. In fact, the more intensely you push for these standards, the more likely it will backfire., like it is in Crown Heights. I think more focus needs to be put on derech… Read more »
I’m glad these guidelines came out because as a dapper young gentleman seeking shidduch it’s hard for me to know what’s in the inside when I’m so distracted by the outside. Hopefully the young eligible ladies take this edict seriously which will make it easier for me to find my destined one.
I am not sure what communities that you are referring to with healthier approaches to tznius. There are plenty of communities with even more stringent approaches then Chabad has and most of the women in those communities adhere to those chumrahs. There are also Dati Leumi communities with more relaxed standards and believe it or not, they also lose about 20% of their young people to assimilation after shirut leumi, IDF service, and college. To me, the litmus test of an approach would be to determine if the person had the strength to continue their commitment to frumkeit despite obstacles… Read more »
but the over emphasis on this to the detriment of everything else that falls under the “tznius” umbrella for all people, of every age and gender, has sadly made a mockery of this particular aspect in some circles and those who try to do anything about ensuring certain standards are met are met with ridicule and scorn. I think everyone needs to start with a healthy dose of yiras shamayim and move on from there.
This obsession with tznius needs to stop. This hyper focus is unhealthy , leads to negative body issues in young girls, and is the reason so many women don’t adhere to basic tznius when they are done with their schooling. Other communities who have a hrealthier approach to tznius(. Halacha not chumras) do not have the same issues as chabad communities. If chabad is known worldwide to be warm and open to every single Jew, we need to start taking better care of our own girls and boys. That means empowering them, not judging them.
The problem with tznius (along with a whole lot of other things going on these days) doesn’t come from the fact that nobody got a phamplet about it.
I don’t want to scare you or anything, but a lot of girls get married while they are still in tznius mode, and then cave to peer pressure.
She can easily start feeling like a “neb” with her stockings, long sleeves and sheitel in the summer while all her friends are walking around comfortably with no stockings, no sheitel and short sleeves.
Husbands have very little say in these matters.
The mindset has to be the Rebbe’s not yours you have the rebbe’s opinion and then you have Crown Heights opinion what is this
It actually pains me to read these comments. Tznius is important and somehow a lot of Chabad women – as we can see from the comments – think it is just fine to ignore these standards. When I drive by and see women wearing mini skirts and sheitals starting from the middle of the hair it makes me want to cry. Its become a joke – that if Chabad women wore skirts as long as their sheitals and wore necklines as high as their heels, they would be fine… I am not one to judge, but don’t kid yourself! Tznius… Read more »
Thank you. Good suggestions. Maybe snapshots of clothing could be sent for those who are shopping or away from Crown Heights- of course, that would have to be kept private.
I don’t want to share my wife with everyone on the street
The more you criticize someone the more they want to rebel. If this keeps up, someone who can afford to will open their own school with normal dress codes. I would if I could. One for boys and one for girls. A proper education, qualified teachers, and a focus on giving back to the community. Imagine if instead of obsessing on what girls wore on their feet we obsessed on getting each girl to realize her potential and give back to the community. With all the teenagers in CH why are organizations unable to find volunteers to visit the sick… Read more »
If this proves anything at all it is that Chabad is not a cult. We have room for open debate. We don’t all agree and we challenge each other. More importantly, we don’t follow blindly these extreme proclamations. We read these comments and further cement our positions on opposite poles. If this continues you will see those who don’t want to follow these strict rules (myself included) becoming more resentful. And having less respect for those behind it. This is not how a cult works.
Of all the mitzvas and Halachas one must wonder why it is only tznius that has become an obsession. There have been no proclamations regarding kashrut; especially on pesach. No one is up in arms about the number of products sold and consumed in CH. No huge outcry over the number of men in the community who only go to shut on Shabbos, or not at all. No one is concerned that our schools violate the laws of this city, this state and this country by not educating our boys and only marginally educating our girls. I won’t even mention… Read more »
There is nothing more obscene than the way some of these rabbis behave. These letters are a distraction from the shame of the damage of their destructive and ongoing infighting. Although I and many others may agree with the content of the letters, it is so offputting to see these names at the bottom tthat we simply cannot stomach it. Get your house in order and then come back to us.
How can one be ‘frum’ on the outside and false on the inside?
and not just some random list of requirements with no true halachic source it would be followed. Why won’t anyone list a standard source like Rambam or Shulchan Aruch as a source. It isn’t halacha it’s a list of ways to degrade and control women.
And while all this is going on, not one of these rabbis have stood up against child abusers in the community. Many of those abusers still enjoy powerful positions while this “board” and others just look the other way! How about spending time and energy on the issues that are real problems like abuse (both child and wife) or agunas? Where are the edicts for those issues??? Truly unbelievable!!
Everyone take a moment to read #69’s
#spoton
what so difficult about tznis, in lnda women wear cottonand loose, so can we, l see if you really care you can find nice stuff,vermont country store,of couse you can double up too which would be hot, you can try sewing or even get a stremtress to do it for you, inthe garment ind in man theres lots of pretty material that refine,and yet alive, not bright, find the the best colors for yourself, there’s katz fabic store in boro park, and yes you can make requests too, look on line, gee,l’m finding lots of really pretty fabic that would… Read more »
Gheze doesn’t equal ffb
To all those that are saying tzinyus is for men , and why is nothing written about it, you are 100 percent correct. But 2 wrongs dont make it right. Tzniyus is between u and hashem. For those that dont respect rabonim, fine i understand u, some get into petty fights and u have no respect for them, i get it. So put all rabonim aside for a moment. This is between u and hashem, u know what u have to do and how u have to dress. Pls dont blame them for anything u do wrong, that makes no… Read more »
I , and others can respect the real me…without getting all distracted from my outside
And I agree with above advice to boys…date tznius girls if u want your marriage to last
Why is Tznius..a davar pashut in all frum communities. And a childish in Chabad?? Are basic Torah laws..not for us???
Seeing that this is a very big discussion in chabad I’ve decided to take some time to give my opinion. Either we can argue about this everyday or you can all listen to my opinion and this will all be cleared up. Never can I remember has this been such a big issue, it was always self understood. Due to new fashion trend’s and that we have unfortunately now started copying the goyim tznius has become a major issue. Now that the trend’s of today are totally against halacha we have to be very careful not to change. Under no… Read more »
Kol haHakvod. This is great! I appreciate the clarity.
BS”D Beautiful! Thank you for letting us know! We don’t know what we don’t know except that you tell us. Baruch HaShem! May it’s observance bring Moshiach immediately.
years ago, long wigs and dark nail polish were not that common among Chabad women
Wow !!! This is the reaction from chassidishe women with some having feminism hashkafos very bad,such a response to bring moshiach is terrible women should be saying whatever i can do better not all these disgusting wrong comments moshiach is crying he is at our door
among s all 166 comments i agree with 74.
Although people might think this is exaggerating, this is extremely important for a Lubavitcher yid.
And what exactly will you do if your boys look at all the non Jewish white woman that moved in here?
I never heard of the Rebbi having issue with nail polish colors or length of A wig.The problem in this neighborhood they may be right in certain things but how they go about it is so wrong
Skirts start at the waist, go down to the knee, and then go OVER THE KNEE, for another 10 cm.
Only a warped mind would think to equate going over with stopping above.
I wonder, do you have a Rav? ASAI L”CHA RAV.
Please get a rav and discuss with your rav how the Rebbe who has such love for you, would like you to dress, think, talk, and act. The Rebbe encouraged everyone to have a rav and mashpia; with the above complaints, I wonder – do you have a Rav? If you are following your Rav’s guidelines with tznius, you would not get so upset with the above rules, though they may differ a little from your own Rav. Please do yourself a favor and get a rav and mashpia.
Without reading any of the above comments.
Tznius is an issue!
On one hand, its up to the individual and on the other there are standards to be in this community, if its too hard to comply…..
I dont think I have to let my boys go on the streets to shul and see non tznius jewish people, woman,girls or men/boys.
If you have other standards and don’t feel rule apply to you, please check out and find a better place, Thanks!
-A concerned mom
Where do our “modern orthodox” Lubavitchers get their fashion advice? Answer: The disgusting fashion magazines and tv and movies they watch – and are so proud to post on Facebook. Yes, shluchim are also doing it. Sad! I feel so bad for my teenagers. 50% of our schools are now modern orthodox. Maybe more.
Thank you Sara for that beautiful poem, I was very moved
if they don’t they should be removed from shlichus
have a tv is a no go
dressing inappropriately a no go
playing tennis in a short skirt should result in not speaking at the convention
the shluchos need to do better
lets go back to lubavitch the way it used to be
s
To #154:
People like YOU are the problem! How dare you have the chutzpah to write such a title?! We have a Rebbe, and he will be our Rebbe forever. If only people would realize that the Rebbe is still here and watching us…
May we be zoche to see the Rebbe physically once again, very soon.
Clothes in primitive and biblical times had to be made from scratch, and long before there were spinning wheels, weaving machines etc. Makes me wonder how much cloth had to be processed and made into garments in order for females to cover up adequately. I bet they didn’t complain about being too hot either, even though their garments were likely made from animal skins, wool, etc.
In response to those who argue that the main thing is their good midos and not their dress — The Rebbe responded on Yud Beis Tamuz 5730 at follows: “A Source of Harm Dressing Immodestly Is Unethical! (From an edited talk of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, 12 Tammuz, 5730) • “Not only is dressing immodestly against the way of Torah, it is against the overall proper path, common morals, and simple logic. Conducting oneself immodestly, by revealing parts of the body that should be covered, is done to provoke the other’s yetzer hara, his undesirable side. It does not accomplish that… Read more »
Saying “there’s more to Judaism than [insert topic]” is just a deflection and an excuse to sweep it under the rug. I can claim there’s more to Judaism than Kashrus, shobbos, etc and eventually do nothing since “Judaism is more than just” or “there’s bigger issues than”
Did all those complaining about men making rules for women actually read the article? Or are they outside agitators who don’t know who Nshei Ubnos Chabad are?
These rules were put together by Nshei Ubnos Chabad i.e. WOMEN! YES WOMEN!
It hurts to see a eida kedosha fall so deep into the opposite.
To read some of the comments here are so disturbing.
Why and how did this happen? Where were the rabbonim all these years? Where were the mechanchim? Where were the parents? Ok it happens everywhere these days. But nowhere
like in CH.
This weeks parsha. We need a Pinchas.
The 3 weeks are coming. I will be crying over churban
Bais Hamikdash and Churban Chabad.
Moshiach now.
Forcing this upon us will not help anything. To be a Jew is more then dressing tzniut. No wonder there are so many people going out of judiasm, look at the example you are setting. Everyone is on their own pace, on their own journey. And god still loves us.
Looks here like everyone totally for this is living in their own bubble and everyone totally against this just doesn’t like being told what they don’t want to hear
Why don’t “the Rabonim” write about the importance of parents expressing proper love to their Children, by
spending time with their children and understanding their individual needs, so they don’t need to get dressed in a way to get the “attention from outside?
When are “the Rabonim” going to teach The beauty of Torah and how to achieve that in 2017?
instead of; all the things “not to do?”
Wake up!!!!!!!!!
Yitzchak
Let us all just remember that this is coming from our rabbanim and we must respect it and follow it. It is halacha. Torah is for our own good. Let’s keep our yiras shamayim and kavod harabanim. Please.
Ok wear a sweater and a skirt in 120 degrees I would love to see you suffer.
So you hate beards and old people? Do you hate your parents and grand parents too? They are also old. You are so concerned about ‘what a woman can do with her body’? That is the same terminology used by supporters of abortion on demand. Do you support that as well? So you complain about women telling me what they can do with their bodies like the feminists are doing through the secular anti Torah laws? For example, women by law can dress how they want as provocatively as they want, to get men to look at them, then when… Read more »
i’ve changed back to the old tzznius me and i love it!
i feel more free then ever ! not a slave to fashion any more , no competition , no peer pressure , my clothes are more expensive and classy and i feel like a queen and my confidence has soared. i’m so much happier now .
It’s the Rabonim’s fault,we don’t make these kind of rules in Lubavitch,follow your intuition,what about gezhe……………..
People grow up and take responsibility for your own actions,desires and shortcomings! Sheesh,this is pathetic.
it will otherwise lead to mixed dancing!
It is scary when real pops up in your face after it hasn’t visited in some time. I believe that any frum person with a clear mind would not take offense from these pleadings of the rabonim. Yes, one might say it’s a demand, but let’s be real: people can and will continue to do as they wish. Nobody thinks otherwise. It’s simply a call for unity, but for those that have a clash with calling themselves frum and their current lifestyle, this can be a cause for disturbance. But do not forget, you can go through whatever you need… Read more »
This can’t realistically be enforced but it can be enforced by all on shluchos and under merkos. I was luckily mekarved by remarkable and knowledgeable women, who spoke in a chassidishe manner and truly lived it. There was no hipocracy. I moved to a small south Florida community and was surprised that one of the local shluchas answered the door with bare feet and a tichel halfway off. This was not s one time occurrence, may of these shluchim own tvs, wear legging and sandals etc. not once have o heard a word of Torah discussed at a shabbos table,… Read more »
Um. Who answers your taharas hamishpacha shailos?
Who empowers these old bearded men? Doesn’t Torah provide a mechanism for this?
But we could all just take on a small improvement in tznius instead of bashing or judging. For example: someone wearing low neck can improve that ( just one area .. slow but steady… or someone who doesn’t wear nylons to Shul could now put on pantyhose to
Go to Shul… a small improvement bw her & Hashem…
Hashem likes that. We all know our shortcomings..
Hatzlocha women sisters. We are all strong
The Rabbis are trying to make more people feel uncomfortable living in Crown Heights, so that less people come in and more people move out. This will solve the issues of overpopulation of Crown Heights, overcrowding of schools, insufficient resources, and other issues.
How about they focus more on what is going inside the house loke parenting advicr or how to raise our children
How can someone not get turned off from such restrictions? This is not a cult. Dress tznius of.course but tell women what nail color to wear of the length of a sheitl?
Better offer classes and educate instead of force.
Tznius is the foundation of Torah – מה טבו אהליך יעקב
Watch out young men dont date non tznius girls. Ask the shadchan. dont get talked into it and if you do drop them like a hot potato.
I left Crown Heights a few years ago and they are still yammering on about tznius. It’s almost comical to watch. Three old men in beards sitting behind closed doors deciding what women should put on their bodies and using holy books as a pretense for their sexism. What gives these men with long beards the authority to tell women what to do? As soon as I hear a man telling a woman what to do with her body, I lose all respect for that person. It’s even worse when it comes under the pretense of religiosity and righteousness. Don’t… Read more »
You know, I do not think we should keep kosher. It’s too inconvenient and it is controlled by Rabbinical tyrants. I can buy treif meat at 1/2 the price. All the people who pasken halacha are men. Maybe we should not listen to the Beis Yosef because he was a man. The Rebbe was a man. FEH! men. These same men tell women how to dress at home. Heck, the even control their fellow men, telling them how to act in the bathroom! How about all these “chabad” women who are making these complaints make a new movement:”the open-orthodox-reform chabad… Read more »
Like many are saying I don’t understand y these same rabbonim don’t take care of a lot other issues that are as important and we all know what those are.
A bubbling cauldron of seething emotions going on here. Perhaps we might start with BASICS? What is the letter of the law? What is the spirit of the law? What is the difference? Why are either / both important to you – as a Jewish and so-called observant girl or woman? What are some ways that we can positively reinforce modesty in though, speech, and action within our community? As an aside: I was somewhat surprised when I recently saw col posting certain pics related to a sports event in Crown Heights. An elbow parade and tichels exposing hair of… Read more »
the hypocrisy of the rabbinic is not to be believed
abuse menalim allowed to retire instead of being prosecuted for abuse
you want a job in lubavitcher office then you better be related
you don’t need talent you need to be a member of the family
shlichus the same thing
i would like to see rabbi kotlarsky send this out to all th shaluchos out there and see the response
and no speakers at the Kinus if they aren’t dressed according to this pamphlet
now lets see some guts
So you want “tznius” for my wife to meet your agenda.
1st, what about all the Chasdidim driving luxury cars (infinity,Mercedes,etc). Oh yeah, what about all the Chasdidim living in Mansions.
That for sure is not Tzinius or modest.
People used to make fun of chabad, saying it was a cult.
These tznius rules remind me of those claims.
I don’t know what to say now, but the hypocracy of these Tzinius rules and the rabbonim are terrible.
why are there no rules for the men. I commend the Rabbi’s on speaking out about the womens tznius. But the men are also a problem. the amount of men walking around in jeans and a tshirt or shorts is too much. the men also need standards. As well as the boys who are walking around in skinny jeans of bright colors and shorts.
This is why we have reform and conservative.
Thank you 🙂
You know, I do not think we should keep kosher. It’s too inconvenient and it is controlled by Rabbinical tyrants. I can buy treif meat at 1/2 the price. All the people who pasken halacha are men. Maybe we should not listen to the Beis Yosef because he was a man. The Rebbe was a man. FEH! men. These same men tell women how to dress at home. Heck, the even control their fellow men, telling them how to act in the bathroom! How about all these “chabad” women who are making these complaints make a new movement:”the open-orthodox-reform chabad… Read more »
Not everyone who is lax in tznius is doing so out of rebellion to hypocrisy. Some people simply want to be more comfortable, more attractive, or fit in to a particular crowd and will tell you that they never personally experienced any trauma from hypocrites or personally feel any need to rebel. In other words, curing people of their innate humanity, won’t make wearing tznius clothes more appealing and that is why it is considered such a tremendous mitzvah. Yes, it requires mesiras nefesh.
cult kəlt/ noun a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. “the cult of St. Olaf” a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister. “a network of Satan-worshiping cults” synonyms: sect, denomination, group, movement, church, persuasion, body, faction “a religious cult” a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing. “a cult of personality surrounding the leaders” synonyms: obsession with, fixation on, mania for, passion for, idolization of, devotion to, worship of, 1.1 A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs… Read more »
These proclamations will only cause rebellion and resentment.
The whole reason they came out with this altogether
Is bc כן עשה הלל…
That was the Rebbe’s letter to the Stern College girls via Rabbi Metzger. Hmmmm. How’d you happen upon that?
Unfortunately, tznius “chutzpah” in men and women is coming from the same place as all the angry posts on this thread. The root is a deep anger about the hypocrisy, the administrative issues in schools, the outward “tznius” of many leaders (both male and female) while doing horrible things and allowing horrible things – especially to children. This seems so obvious. People are rebelling. They’re mad. Of course #98 is beautiful and very high level. But for most people who grew up in a corrupt system, a deeper healing must take place first in order to get to that lofty… Read more »
We Lubavitchers were never the ones to focus on the ‘negative’. Be tznius, each person should do the best they can. For one it means she will start covering her knees, for the other it will go from 2 inches to 4 below the knee, the other it will be a skirt all together. A list of rules is for the misnagdim. It always was about the details of negativity. You can’t do this and you can’t do this. Be tznius! and do the best you can. A list of rules that are basically impossible for todays women to follow… Read more »
the package of stockings says what the denier thickness is on the label, in other words, how sheer the fabric is. The color must simply be dark enough not to look as though the person is not wearing hosiery.
Wait ok I understand but what about the guys? You know those tight skinny jeans that show off all the ahem curves? And the v neck tees showing just enough tanned chest? And the short sleeves that show off those manly muscles that drive women crazy. What about them??
This is again crown heightsers makig a big deal over nothing. Yes there is those women who have mesiros nefesh in the winter to specifically be NOT tznius, especially around Yud Shvat time. But, that is really. Why do you dress immodestly, then wonder why men are staring at you. Don’t show off half of your body, then get angry when you get inappropriate comments. Use your brains. It is not so hard to be half-tznius. You don’t have to follow these exact rules, but the basics of tznius should be implemented.
Lchaim!
However, women who dress rather ‘too modestly’, are also apt to suffer negative public ridicule in the form of verbal abuse, crude gestures, etc. Besides, a young woman is formed to display her facial and physical beauty to attract males, within certain guidelines of course. Men will always look at attractive women, if they are that way inclined, whatever ‘the rabbis’ dictate. It’s called nature: get over it.
As soon as the men become upstanding tznius in thought speech and action and follow through on the kesuba they signed then the women will do whatever you tell them to. As far as I’m concerned the rebbe said to follow kitzur shulchan aruch and there are no such laws in there. The only thing it says there is that tznius applies equally to both genders.
lol…
If you have ever gone to shul and seen it, you know what a sefer Torah is. If you don’t know what it is, let me tell you. It’s not a story book, yet it tells many stories of the past. Not a prison manual, yet it commands us so many things that make us feel confined. The purpose: to teach us G-d gave US this Torah so WE can learn from it, take in its many lessons, adhere to its beautiful commandments. Beautiful, yes. G-d created the world, He is the Source and the Creator of beauty. He knows… Read more »
Don’t assume that everyone knows these halachas or that everyone who logs onto this site has a frum background. You can’t imagine the variety of people who log onto these websites who really don’t know and it is not a good idea to make fun of rabbonim who serve the community and again, why put them down to those who are new to the community and want to follow the halacha?
I live in a very large Lubavitch community, and those of us who are ba’al teshuvas always comment on how you can tell whether or not someone is FFB…by looking at the length of the skirt and the height of their heels. FFB’s wear the shortest skirts and the highest heels.
You’re living in an illusion if you think it’s those of us who actually chose this life.
I believe in tznuis. Hiwever, you have to know your crowd. For example the length of a sheitle. 1. Is this halacha? 2. Yes some woman wear it a long lent because they think it’s attractivd, however these woman are likely not to cover their hair at all if they don’t wear a sheitel they think they look good in so if this is the case which way to you want to go? Tell them to shorten their wigs or have them toss the wigs altogether? I use this as an example but it can be applied to othet things… Read more »
They will only cause you problems. After they are married they will flirt with you friends. Make sure the girl is 100pct tznisdik before you go out.
I didn’t see anything in the list that said that women couldn’t wear colors; only that the colors couldn’t be so bright as to be attention seeking. It also didn’t totally nix nail polish; only those colors that again, are attention seeking. I don’t think that we need public demonstrations against stores because those stores can sell to both Jews and non-Jews as well as sell clothing that can be lengthened or adapted so that it is tznius on the wearer. The people who are commenting here are turned off to the idea of tznius police who shut down businesses… Read more »
There are a variety of social ills in the frum community, not only in the CH community and these have been addressed and there are solutions in place, if the community implements them. The emphasis on tznius doesn’t mean that we don’t address how to make a living without scamming the government and if you look at some past posts on collive.com, there were some links to address the employment issue. Are you waiting for rabbonim to tell you that you have to make a living? Their job is to tell you how to follow the halacha and whether you… Read more »
I want to say rubbish. Crap. BS. How about we focus on why the beis din is establishing these rules? How do they know how women are dressing when their eyes are averted? But lm not surprised, so many charlatan rabbanim are posing as halachisists when what they really need to do is a din v’cheshbon on their own middos.
What color pantyhose/stockings is one allowed to wear? I don’t understand what 20 deniers means. I thought the halacha is as long as a skirt covers one’s knees when one is sitting – that to me does not seem to be 4″ – seems like less than that can cover the knees when sitting. Just like this letter comes from men who are concerned about tznius, the men in the household – the fathers and the husbands – need to also encourage their daughters and wives to be more tznius. The men need to learn the halachos and the sichos… Read more »
After writing my previous comment I looked at the different news items on COL. I looked at photographs of a few recent wedding and it struck me… how often the Chossen, his siblings, family and friends have nary a whisker. Yes, I know Rabbi Wiener is buckey on “trimming” but the hypocrisy of the critics who address issues of how women dress to the point of obsession is disgusting. You always attack US – the female gender. When do you ever speak to the men who shave, who wear tight clothing (THAT is OK, it seems), who obviously don’t wear… Read more »
The heading of this article should read The Three Rabbonim of our community and of our Beis Din , sign etc….
Lack of tznius very much does impact the shidduch crisis as much as lack of frum men does. I find it either comical or disturbing when a woman who is lax in tznius declares that she will only date men who never miss minyon, are kovea itim in Torah study, or are careful not to miss Rambam or Chitas. Why on earth would such a frum guy want a girl who can’t figure out where to get a skirt that covers her knees? These girls might become shidduch crisis statistics if they don’t find a seamstress asap and get their… Read more »
So many commentators seem fixated on other problems being resolved before focusing on tznius. Kind of like saying “if everything and everyone were perfect then we can talk about tznius”. But life isn’t an if and then game and life will never be perfect until moshiach comes. We need to keep mitzvos without making deals with Hashem. Especially the mitzvah of tznius which we know brings down brochos in all areas of our lives. Hatzlacha to all in withstanding this tremendous nisayon without making excuses or waiting for others to improve first.
Bravo to you! All these lectures, whether from Rabbonim or N’shei Chabad (whom, I might say, tend to be fahfrumpt and dowdy and out of touch) won’t achieve their goals. They will, however, drive women & girls to the other extreme. Like you, I am very careful about tzniut – yesterday for example, even though it was pushing 100*, I changed from a thin cardigan to a linen jacket because I just felt it wasn’t “quite right.” Did I shvitz? I sure did, but I wasn’t worried in shul that I was “underdressed.” I like my nail polish. I like… Read more »
Commenters should be ashamed of themselves for denigrating Talmudei chachmim. How dare you insult them for following G-d’s Torah and the the Rebbe’s guidance e on this issue.
To #64: did you ever wonder why we have problems such as divorce, agunos, children going OTD, etc.? I believe the lack of tznius is a direct correlation to these problems.
By the Grace of G-d 21st of Kislev, 5730 Brooklyn, N.Y. Miss New York, N.Y. Blessing and Greeting: I duly received your letter with the enclosed tzedakah contributed by your group of girls. Enclosed are the receipts. May G-d grant that the zechus of the tzedakah should stand each and every one of you individually and all together in good stead for the fulfillment of your heart’s desires for good in all your needs. I hope you will have an inspiring Chanukah, especially in light of the fact that Jewish women had a significant role in the miracle of Chanukah,… Read more »
We have laughed and cried together; journeyed and struggled together; doing our best to support each other; and through tznius…I give you the greatest gifts a wife can wish for her husband… I do it…for you. I have fed and clothed you, held and encouraged you. I have cried and prayed for you, and through tznius…I give you the greatest gifts a mother can wish for her children… I do it…for you. I have climbed mountains and reached their peaks. I’ve traversed valleys, unsure of my way; but through it all, deeply yearning to reach, to connect to, my truest… Read more »
i read these halachos carefully when i received it in the mail. was impressed that it was written in a sensitive yet clear manner, and realize how much work was put in by nshei chabad of eretz yisroel to prepare this
it is sad to read so many negative comments, even if dressing tzniusly is a nisayon for some women and girls, everyone can find one small area or more to improve in
how come rabbis shusterman, bell, raskin,marlow, shapiro, liberman, richik, labvosky haven’t commented???
is this only for ny???
thank you
Big Brother is watching you:
War is Peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
#44
NO GUTS THATS WHY
What the zipper rule about skirts is that if a skirt has a zipper, as opposed to elastic, it should not be ornamental or zip in the front like trousers but should be inconspicuous and be at the back or side of the skirt. As to what constitutes loud or conspicuous colors, it pays to have a group of ladies who would make a volunteer vaad who could answer questions that women have about their clothes, jewelry, shoes or cosmetics. These women could make themselves available to either shop with someone who was unsure about these items or who could… Read more »
# 65. GOOD RIDDANCE THEN
#72. HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH FFB AND THE WAY THEY THINK THERE IS ONE HALOCHO IN TZNIUS FOR GHEZE AND ONE FOR BAALEI TESHUVA AND NON GHEZE
I know many many parents who have been super strict with txnius with their kids growing up,from big , Lubavitch families. Not only did it not bring blessings to their home,but half of their kids totally left yiddishkeit. By that I mean,virtually keep no laws,tnius being the least of their worries right now. So the whole blessing thing if you keep the strictest tznius laws is nonsense. I can give you so many examples of the opposite. How about we start with people should be nice to one another. Good hearts. Tzedakah,helping fellow struggling people mentally. So many things I… Read more »
Do you ever wonder WHY our Rabbonim don’t have the power to go after child molesters or men who refuse to give gets. It is THIS! Their power comes from us. If we won’t listen to them when they give a psak Din – how can they use the power of Torah to do anything???? I am hearing the same excuses for tznius as I hear from the conservatives. It is too hard. Please change Torah to fit modernity. Ten years ago no one would have blinked at these rules. What will be in another ten years? Will they have… Read more »
Tznius Rules is for every chabad house
As a baal teshuva woman in Crown Heights I am ok with this, but I also realize it is the taiva of our generation. I’m a little surprised that nothing was said about spike and platform high heels. Maybe if women realized what a huge problem it is to tempt someone to sin, because of the way we are dressed. Yes! We need to take responsiblity for our actions!!!! Is that so shocking? A man could G-d forbid stumble to sin because of they way WE dress. That means, according to the Zohar, that we could have lots of children… Read more »
I grew up wearing pants and in a very secular environment but I am modest by nature, so that’s the type of friends I had. Only after becoming frum and living in CH was I made to feel uncomfortable by the lack of modesty. I’m not speaking of elbows and collarbones but so much more. The seedy basement subculture of the ch youth, I was exposed to Moore drugs, untznius behavior there than ever in my secular world. Than the lack of modest speech in ch, I’ve heard more judgement, racism, lashon hara and baseless hate more in ch than… Read more »
How dare you forbid anything besides wigs halacha says to cover hair tbere are wonen who cannot wear wigs and if they choose to cover there hair properly with sonthing else thats fine
I would like to see a set of rules that enforce the end of the machloikes between the CH rabbis. As of now I do not respect these rabbis as they cannot respect the simplist rule of resolving a dispute between two jews, let alone “righteous people”.
Tell the male community to wear black sunglasses if tights and boots r an issue .. get a grip
Why dont we focuse on the real issues like no mini skirts or short sleeves with cleavage showing . The rest is irrelevant next to the above besides why are so many yentes constantly barking on about everyone elses tznuis and forgetting to stop fixing others but to look inside of them selves first and work on there loshon hara and judgy ways we change the world by changeing ourselves stop judgeing others and just bc u dress like a frump or elegantly tznuisdik diesnt make ur scanadalous ways ok
To those that say that these guidelines will make them dress even worse: you are responsible for your own actions just as you alone are responsible for the rest of the mitzvos. These guidelines are meant for people who actually want to follow Halacha. Rabbanim put out guidelines for a broad variety of topics quite frequently for the benefit of those that choose to learn and follow torah laws. Why col chose to publicize specifically these is a different question. But to say that what rabbonim say will make you “strip more” indicates a lack of caring about anything they… Read more »
Did you mean Pinchas Todres?
Interesting I recently moved to a predominantly Sephardic religious community, the elbows and necklines are are usually uncovered and majority of women wear tichels or large fabric headbands never shaitles. But what I noticed is they are more tznius than the average chabad woman because they don’t dress provocatively. I’m often asked this by my new found Sephardi friends how are super tight clothing that cover all the right parts or super model shaitles considered more tznius. The problem is that today’s role models, which the average person is a shlucha dresses in this matter as well. I found the… Read more »
The more they try to make Crown Heights look like Williamsburg, the more it will look like Teaneck. (I already don’t wear wigs past my shoulders. I cover my knees elbows and don’t go bare legged. I, too, am bothered by the Tznius Matzav in CH. But I do wear jean skirts and my sheitel is wavy. Occasionally my nail color isn’t soft. I wear a lot of black but honestly should wear bright colors as they make me look prettier. Why make it harder for people like me to adhere to the community standards?! You will cause already-tznius people… Read more »
There have been numerous cases in Jewish history where rabbis have tried to implement laws thatt were not adopted because the community never took apon themselves to accept.
I do not believe this letter will solve any of the problems our community faces… it’s only going to fuel the fire
That the rabbonim take a stand and don’t just allow despicable behavior. Kudos to them for standing always standing up for what’s right and decent! Our community deserves rabbonim who are strong and supportive of what’s right and are quick to condemn the wrong! Finally the terrible behaviors of community members will end, and our shchuna will once again be a place of kedusha and righteousness.
We all know the Halachos, that is not the cause of the problem, and this won’t be the solution.
I think these rules are amazing, I personally have a too long shaitel and will figure something out to make it okay.
finally someone is standing up in Lubavitch !
Any even doing bh so may not be enough because it may appeal to some men
Gezhe doesn’t have anything to do with frum…
When people observe primary mitzvos properly, they don’t have to worry about those type of issues
Please provide sources!
While thousands of shluchim are truly doing holy work and bring countless Jews closer to Judaism in an a calm and non judgmental fashion, thousands of FFB lubavitch boys and girls are ABANDONING yiddshkeit! And I mean THOUSANDS! they are bitter, they are angry at a system that gave them ZERO skills for the REAL world. So instead of focusing on trying to turn off even more of our children and enforcing rules, maybe it’s time think about: 1) child molestation in the community, and about the pedophiles roaming our streets 2)married men have zero skills and joke careers and… Read more »
Instead of focusing on what other people do (specifically women which you should not be looking at to begin with), why not focus on bringing the beis Din and council and comunity back together ?
Have you ever watched the non-Jewish men in the neighborhood “checking out” our women & girls? They are really enjoying what they see, and I am certain that no one here is trying to do that.
Ladies and gentlemen, tznius is halacha.
Just like avoiding pork, and keeping shabbos.
G-d said so. End of story. The Rabbis are just helping by providing details; THEY DIDN’T MAKE THIS UP! G-d did.
If you keep shabbos and kosher, dress tzniusly too. Plain and simple.
(The reason men aren’t mentioned here – despite having tznius laws as well – is probably because most men in are community already dress tzniusly.)
This is NOT going to make myself and others want to be Chabad!
very bad move for chabad community.
there are many subjects that need more attention.
let each jew find his/her own path in its pace. imposing standards wont solve ANYTHING and will make people angry.
This beis din is a joke and should be ashamed of themselves for bringing more self and outer hatred for disrespecting people’s lifestyles.
we all know whats on the shulchan oruch – let them decide for themselves. educate your eyes, your loins and your children – dont force it upon our bnos yisroel
In letters to the hanhola of Chabad schools in eretz yisroel, the Rebbe more than once expressed his shita: that as Lubavitcher chassidim, vniflinu, we do not compromise our standards, although shlichus demands from us sometimes put ourselves into challenging situations, our tzniyus standards is just as high as the beis Yaakov schools, if not higher. We are educated to become lamplighters, if we ourselves are not dugma chaya, how dare we inspire others to follow our example? Coming from Parshas Bolok, bilaam says “מה טובו אוהלך יעקב, משכנתך ישראל ” , praising the tremendous tzniyus present by the yiddisher… Read more »
Snius rules are not new. I lived in Crown Hieghts in the 80’s, and everyone dressed like this. No one really had to tell us to. We knew this was the standard the Rebbe encouraged among our women. (i am not talking about outreach, and non-religious women coming to visit). You say we first need to fix every other ill in society, and THEN women will dress snius out of respect for the Rabbonim? The halacha comes from TORAH. where is your respect for Torah? No, women will not dress properly, by some magical force, when other ills are fixed.… Read more »
bh ad mosai?
Every time I see so many positive and thoughtull comments about differenet subjects: music clips, tragedies, Israel etc. But look what happend now? If you read all the cooments again you wil be shocked! Didn’t you know the corrent status is teribble? Suddenly rabbis don’t know what they are saying?!
the worst thing and most important dress code that they should talk about is the really fitted clothing that makes the guy look at them twice or three and five times
Why are you writing something in such a condescending tone.
Do you not agree that as frum jews we need to be tznius.
If you have a personal issue, don’t set a negative tone for all you countless readers
This time collive you really let me down
We should trust ourselves, our Jewish women’s inner wisdom to guide us, everyone of us know in which situation we find ourselves, we are all different, we just have to try our best, with a genuine will to connect to G-d. This attitude makes more sense to me than all of those dressing codes together.
I think we’d all be happy if everyone kept halacha. These standards are so beyond that that I don’t think people will be open. Try one inch below the knee before 4.
Clearly, Rabbi Segal is Israeli trying to bring Israel to America , and if he thinks it’s gonna work he’s out to lunch. And Rabbi Ossoba is not in touch with his crowd. ( and if he had a crowd, he lost it)
Can one drive a bright Red Flashy Lexus??? Men or woman alike. What about the tight jeans the guys wear ?
I agree. Very important point. Thanks for pointing out. COL it’s really up to you to give unbiased information. As frum Jews yourself I would expect sheer transparency and honesty. But… Chaval that’s too much to expect
You need brushing up on basic reading comprehension skills. The title says that the Rabbis “endorsed” the letter.
In the article it says that it was written by nshei ubnos chabad.
The only thing this kind of list makes me want to do it strip off even more.
Here we go again
I would love to see tzinius guidelines for men.
1. No jeans or tight pants.
2. Must button shirt al the way.
3. Must wear hat and jacket always.
4. Can’t touch beard.
5. No funky glasses, No color socks, No shoes that bring attention,……………..
And so on and so on!
Welcome to the new mei shorim
#7, you are spot on.
I am not against tznius. I dress tznius-ly myself.
But, there are so many issues with “imposters”
Those who look frum but truly are not on the inside.
That needs to be addressed. With men, too.
What other colors are considered bright and conspicuous? What if your skirt doesn’t have a zipper- do you have to add one? Very vague about what constitutes items that draw attention.
Unfortunately, just like banning cigarettes was not done by Rabbanim because people wouldn’t listen to it, the same holds for some of the tznius rules.
Rabbonim have to show their unity . Respect and Ahavas Israel among themselves and then that are going to be considered
This goes for CH. Beis Din members
I find it interesting that whenever men in anyway get involved with women’s issues they are silenced to say the least but but when women get involved with men’s issues there isn’t a peep outcry from men.
(Insert crying laughing emoji here)
Says who? G-d? The Torah?
Give me a break. That’s a big load of poo poo.
Why didn’t R’ Schwei sign this letter? Does he disagree?
If you read the tznius guidelines from Rav Schwei and Rav Braun it does mention men’s tznius. They quote directly from the Rebbe how he was disgusted by men wearing shorts! Also yes – there are many very valuable problems in crown heights- however the Rebbe has said many times that the foundation of yiddishkeit itself is the home. You would have to be blind to not see with the eroding of our level of tznius came the eroding of all mitzvos. If we are letting vogue and the runways in Paris dictate how we dress – is it to… Read more »
wonder what kind of thoughts men are supposed to have when on the way to shul mikvah yeshiva etc have to bump into so many untsniusdik people?
For all those that oppose:
I cry for you and your soul.
I cry for the dark golus we are in.
I cry for how low we dropped.
I cry for how blinded we are.
I yearn for the day moshiach will come and we will have
A happy soul, lightness, and clarity.
And may that day be very near!
The Rebbe was a man. He had very clear guidelines, he told us to turn to Rabbonim for Halacha. If you have a problem turning to men for guidance, then it’s time to rethink your whole approach to Yiddishkeit. Yup, that simple. If you want to pick and choose, that’s your prerogative, however, let’s not pretend that the uncovering knees and elbows and showing hair is ok according to Halacha. Yes, Middos are important, yes, it’s important that our children are safe, yes, it’s important that we are honest, why are those attributes MORE IMPORTANT than Tznius? Because you struggle… Read more »
don’t start blaming the outsiders and the visitors ….
This is just straight Halacha.
# 2
Do you honestly believe that baalei teshuva are the problem more than frum from birth?
Look at how gheze go around
The Rebbe spoke many times that when we women dress tzniusdikly we protect the yiddin in Eretz Yisrael and around the world.
I don’t dress tzniuse to protect the man’s sight and thought
I dress tzniuse because a woman’s body is sanctified and it will be disrespectful to G-D, the body He gave me , and for myself if I expose what is meant to be hidden.
I thank Hashem daily for this special mitzvah I have that blesses me , my family, and all of klal yisrael.
these rules are not followed by chabad houses?
One of the problems with lack of tznius is that it doesn’t stop there.when you break the rules of tznius you break other rules too.let’s be honest.
There is a reason for tznius. It’s a stepping stone for other areas in yiddishkeit. May hashem save this community.
You are so right!
I daven for the day that everyone will have the clarity and desire to be tzniuse.
I love that skirts now must be OVER the knee. A full ten cm! Phew. It’s gonna be hot in crown heights!
All Rabonim need to deal with issues like Get & Agunot , child poverty and single parents support , and other to make community Great again …. then women will wear differnt clothing as a reflection of Rabonim & men good deeds
Why is it that men have no rules? Such a chutzpah. This makes me, as a tznius women want to gag. Some of these rules are insane.
So from most of the above posters,we see how vitally important tzneeus is. If it weren’t, people wouldn’t have such strong opinions attempting to validate being untznneus.
remember what guys really like are truly ztienuz women because if not then we will look at other women and not focus on our wife which as for me serve as inspiration and my spiritual hero even if it’s 100 degrees outside it’s because we love them and they shouldn’t feel invasive because there issues that from men’s part too are exposed but everything needs to be looked at with the right eye. I feel really saddened by how so many chabad women feel so against this article, adaraba it should inspire them to do just a little more for… Read more »
B”H It would appear from the comments that this truly is a matter of the greatest importance. Otherwise, why would the Yetzer Hora be expending such huge amounts of energy to fight against it! You don’t hear all the women complaining that the men (the Rabbonim) are trying to tell them if a chicken is kosher or not. You don’t hear them complaining that men decide if a Sefer Torah is kosher or not. They wouldn’t even try to dispute the laws of Taharas Hamishpocha, because they were interpreted by men. Here, they decide that only a Female Rabbi could… Read more »
What’s happening to the women who don’t follow? And why are the rabbinim getting involved in a girls dress code? And the girls that are dressing that way. Don’t really care what the rav has to say regardless!
Although it’s hard, it’s nice that the rabbanim are setting clear guidelines!
It seems from the images like this list was compiled by women in Eretz Yisroel. The Israeli Rabbis endorsed it and now the CH Rabbis did too.
COL, please don’t make it seem as if these esteemed Rabbis sat down to make guidelines about nail polish and sheitel length.
What about leggings?
What’s up with the negative reactions?!?! There is no halachik excuse for the way some ppl don’t cover up outside. If someone is doing something wrong at least they should not flaunt it publicly!
First I would like to say that whatever B’nos Menachem chooses to do is their business. The school is a private enterprise and can demand whatever they want from their teachers, parents etc. Now as far as our community is concerned – there is no doubt that we have a serious problem but pamphlets like these are of no help. By the way the paragraph about the belts and jewelry were omitted (yes BELTS) for some reason. Woman who adhere to the laws of Tznius will continue to do so. Those that don’t will not be swayed by these rules.… Read more »
A lot the specific guidelines in the above proclamation are subject to halachic refutation. That’s why these rules will never be accepted and practiced by most women: their rov will be matir all the garments in question. Instead let’s focus on another hilarious point: the fact that old rabbanim decide what is “too attractive”. if the rules aren’t based in Halacha and the reason for tznius is “to keep men’s eyes in better places” then tube only justification for the existence of these rules are that the rov-who made the rule – had his eyes in the wrong place! And… Read more »
If there was a letter about tznius that did not only focus on the clothing but also on behavior and lifestyle it would be taken better.
I am a Bubbie who is (and always has been) careful with Tznius. And I am not happy at all with Crown Heights looking like a beach town. BUT: Why haven’t these Rabbis put as much energy into helping Agunas and victims of domestic abuse (both female & male) ? They seem to have all been sleeping fine at night for years while tragedies are ignored that also affect generations. Maybe the decline in Tznius in Crown Heights is actually the result of their lack of concern, compassion, and integrity ??
its important to know the differrence between guidelines, and what is actually halacha
Ha! The shidduch crisis isn’t because the women are not frum enough – the issue is the lack of frum guys! And married men who aren’t serving as wholesome examples to their children. Why aren’t you addressing those men first before going into this despicable detail of women’s bodies??
Bh these are guidlines for us and there are sources. The Rebbe spoke a lot of tznius and wrote about it.
No they won’t enforce it but it is good for people to know the correct standard.
Believe it or not people respect us when we dress with standards
This is counterintuitive to inclusivity and the chabad philosophy. Why would these men backing this ridiculous list make me any more inclined to listen? No nailpolish? Please. Telling me how to dress in my own home? Give me a break. Try trespecting women, equal pay in chabad schools irrespective of gender and maybe we will be interested in why you have to say. I’m repulsed to say the least.
בשעה טובה ומוצלחת הגיעה הזמן לעשות סדר במקום הזה!!!!
Okay I get it. Promoting tznius is good. It’s great! But you gotta do it correctly. This isn’t doing it correctly. Not going to help.
can you please tell me what this is going to achieve?
Tznius is just a request that God our father asked us his children. it wasnt about fights and disputes and ppl get angry.its a beautiful mitzvah .
I wonder are the women so terrible? I agree 100 per cent., we have lost the refinement for our clothing. The stores kingston sell those kind of clothing…bec that is what the people want BH the rabbinic people have spoken!!! However I find that many men are dressed very Tzniusdik on the outside and rotten inside . Machshovis and maasim are not in sync with their clothing. The Rabbonim must address that equally. It is more important bec we are losing our Dor of men who look great on the outside and are nebech something else inside! Rabbonin make a… Read more »
Sorry but when it’s 120 degrees out I’m not covering up and suffering from a heatstroke! Which of these Rabbis will save me then?
Are there sources for these very exact guidelines??
how about we focus on something OTHER than women’s dress for once???
Chabad wonders why so many get turned off. Wow.
What will be if one is not keeping to these standards (besides for it effecting her family?) Who will enforce these codes? What about all the baalei teshuva visiting Crown Heights or those not yet on the level to keep to these standards?
Clear possuk from the Torah that says the Yidden should wear the Egyptians clothing.