ב"ה
Friday, 13 Elul, 5782
  |  September 9, 2022

2 Emails Alerted Me to a Growing Problem in Our Midst

From the COLlive inbox: "This summer, I was jolted by 2 emails from a camp and a community Chessed organization that made me wonder if it's actually the adults that are paving the way for our teens' behavior." Full Story

Illustration Photo by Sharon McCutcheon / Unsplash

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You gave examples
August 8, 2022 11:30 pm

That’s rare here. You bring a solid point. TY

Mr e
August 8, 2022 11:37 pm

My wife was saying the same thing. Good point!

Welcome to humanity
August 8, 2022 11:39 pm

Welcome to money world. Shidduchim WAS for free (tip yes but not how it’s done today),doing a favor WAS for free, saying a kind word WAS without intention but just to BE nice…. I could go on…. yes this comes from adults aka chinuch how you bring up your children – if its centered around money then the list is adding on to the email examples that you mentioned. Ince people cave in to my examples why shouldn’t they move on to yours?

Shidduchim for FREE
Reply to  Welcome to humanity
August 9, 2022 11:07 am

True, shidduchim was never structured. However the concept of paying shadchonus gelt and paying tokens of appreciation for suggestions, and/or setting up dates was always practiced by the Rebbeim and Gedolim. Unfortunately, in today’s world of what can you do for me, often it is overlooked.
Shidduchim are still free. However, if you approach someone to actively spend hours searching for suggestions, and working through the shidduch process, it is only right and mentschlech to compensate the shadchan accordingly.

35 still single
Reply to  Shidduchim for FREE
August 9, 2022 1:43 pm

Paying shatchanis gelt is one thing. Paying for suggestions or dating wasnt done by the Rebbeim UNLESS the shidduch pulled though which equals to shatchonus gelt. You get money once the job is done like every job. Not, if there was the guy you choose for me and I didn’t want him and you want MY MONEY?! I should know, I’ve been there… shidduchim are NOT for free today!

single
Reply to  Shidduchim for FREE
August 9, 2022 10:22 pm

many (probably most) shidduchim today are done through websites where the shadchan types in a few details and a list of suggestions pop up. It does not take hours and barely any work to find a resume. It takes work only if the boy/girl is interested in the random name you suggest based on an algorithm, without taking a minute to think if it actually makes sense. Majority of the suggestions I get are nothing like what I describe. Why should anyone have to pay for your two minutes of work that yielded no results?

Anonymous
Reply to  Shidduchim for FREE
August 10, 2022 11:09 am

Regarding camp staff members which work hour upon hours (two months to be exact) for your child, should also get *tipped* as you just said.

so many good takes
August 9, 2022 12:06 am

Heres one: Imagine someone decided your worth as a mother based on watching a few hours of you playing with ur kids at the park. Thats like deciding how much to tip your kids counselour based on how they smile at you on visiting day. The hours they put in are not even comparable to the few hours on visiting day Take two: The counselours dont read the emails that the camp sends home. As a counselor many moons ago, I was thrulled with whatever I got- the tips had more to do with the type of parent / how… Read more »

Regarding “Take One”
Reply to  so many good takes
August 9, 2022 9:36 am

Aside from the fact that this entire comment seems to stem from a “chip on the shoulder”, I’d like to note that Take One is wholly inaccurate and while the other take(s) may have merit, this one has ZERO!

As most of us have been in camp, we’ve had our feedback for our parents about our counselors etc., while being biased, it s gave color – those couple hours on visiting day are usually enough to allow the parent to sniff out if their child was correct about their experience.

Ha this is rediculous
August 9, 2022 12:07 am

Even if you were just to pay the counselor 15$ hour for the time he sleeps with his bunk and is responsible for them at 8 hrs a night it would be 840$ a week they don’t get anywhere near that and they take care of and entertain your kids All day so don’t talk about it like they’re overpaid they take care of and are responsible for your kid 24/7 even if they don’t introduce themselves to you if your kid makes it through the summer and has a good time the counselor deserves a lot bigger tip and… Read more »

Why
Reply to  Ha this is rediculous
August 9, 2022 1:31 am

Why does the camp not pay enough to the counselor’s? The tipping culture is out of control. Parents pay enough for camp as it is, the demands for add on’s is outrageous.

Yes
Reply to  Why
August 9, 2022 9:25 am

This is exactly the problem.

Appreciation
Reply to  Why
August 10, 2022 6:02 am

Sometimes a parent could undermine the hard work it is to be a counselor. It’s like being a parent to 10-15 kids. It can be especially hard when the parent has failed to teach their kid to act like a mensch which is mostly the case. It’s not easy. Your right that camp is expensive. But imagine how meaningful it is to the counselor when he gets a nice tip and feels appreciated for all the hard work he’s done. The camp asks you to pay it because they know the money is much more meaningful when it comes from… Read more »

Then at least say THANK YOU
Reply to  Why
August 10, 2022 3:50 pm

POV: You’re a parent to a kid in camp. You don’t have the money to tip (although I don’t get that, even $10 is nice). At least send the counselors an appreciation message! We’re calling the kids entitled? What about the parents? Paying for camp is expensive, but the counselors get a tiny fraction of your tuition. Why can’t you just send a small thank you message?

I was a counselor
Reply to  Ha this is rediculous
August 9, 2022 1:47 am

I was a counselor, and the work was extremely difficult, but I think that camps charge enough to be able to pay the counselors what they deserve, the burden should not be on the parents, the parents already pay a lot of money for Camp, and a lot of parents cannot afford to dish out even more money for tips, it was different back in the day when camps were not run like a business, as they are today.

Regarding tips
Reply to  Ha this is rediculous
August 9, 2022 7:40 pm

300 in canteen is how much we get paid

Bogus
Reply to  Ha this is rediculous
August 11, 2022 11:36 pm

Camps are costly but not lucrative. Not a profitable enterprise. The proof is in the pudding – there aren’t even enough camps. Because it’s a hole in the pocket, nobody is interested in opening them. And it’s so hard to fundraise for a camp, whereas yeshivahs are easy (relatively) to fundraise for. Hence, yeshivahs pop up all over, but new camps that open are very seldom. If I’m wrong and it’s lucrative, then you can go have fun becoming wealthy by opening a camp. Hatzlocho

My view is different
August 9, 2022 12:09 am

I think tipping is very important even if expected. They took care of our children like their own family for weeks

different
Reply to  My view is different
August 9, 2022 8:43 am

and how much do parents get paid weekly for raising their own children?

Really?
Reply to  different
August 9, 2022 10:35 am

The counselors aren’t your kids parents. They’re going on shluchis to fix your child’s brain from all the shtusim you put in their head.

Wow
Reply to  different
August 9, 2022 1:31 pm

I think you need to see a specialist to help you understand what it means to be a mother

I disagree
August 9, 2022 12:10 am

I signed up to the chessed program.
It politely asked that we give one gift to our volunteers, a$10 gift certificate chanuka time.

Not sure what you’re talking about

I love the chessed program!
Reply to  I disagree
August 9, 2022 12:34 am

She’s not talking about HOO. She’s talking about another program.
Asking for a $10 gift is fine.

That's not what she's complaining about
Reply to  I disagree
August 9, 2022 12:52 am

The writer is talking about a different chessed program.

I love the chessed program!
Reply to  That's not what she's complaining about
August 9, 2022 8:16 am

I think she is talking about HOO. That’s the only chessed program. The writer just blew it out of proportion. Nothing wrong with asking for a $10 gift.

Camps Should Pay
August 9, 2022 12:15 am

Camps make enough money it’s a Buisness.
they should pay their staff and stop ‘suggesting’ us how much to tip and rely on parents to make up for their poor pay.

agreed
Reply to  Camps Should Pay
August 9, 2022 10:42 am

paying counselors $500 for two months work (most of which is spent in canteen on their campers) is a travesty

Stuff
Reply to  agreed
August 9, 2022 1:14 pm

$500 in most camps would be considered big bucks

they also get food and trips and special events
Reply to  agreed
August 9, 2022 6:50 pm

they should maybe pay more
but they dont only receive money while they are there they receive other things as well

Important tip
Reply to  Camps Should Pay
August 10, 2022 6:06 am

They’re only suggesting because they actually see and know how hard the counselors are working. Sometimes it can be hard to gauge properly especially if you don’t see day to day and you haven’t been a counselor ever or in a really long time

The Problem Is Not the Teens....
August 9, 2022 12:16 am

I agree with you whole heartedly. You are right on point. However the problem is actually greater than what you address in this well written article. The problem starts higher up than teens working or volunteering. The “institutions” that are supposed to be teaching the children are part and parcel of the problem. Without naming any of the institutions, Why do the Mesivtas and Seminaries feel “entitled” to charge $20,000 USD for “Tuition” while paying their staff close to minimum wage? What message does this type of money grab send to the youth of today? Does it really cost the… Read more »

Agree
Reply to  The Problem Is Not the Teens....
August 11, 2022 9:05 am

Exactly!

What email are you referring to?
August 9, 2022 12:17 am

I didn’t get any email from a community chessed program.

However I have 2 girls who volunteer in the program. So I know whats going on.

* families are asked to buy a $10 gift for their volunteers in honor of chanuka
* sweaters are gifted to girls who volunteer at non relatives. If you want to volunteer by your relative, and you want a sweater, they charged $15.

I think it was very fair.
I was happy for one of my daughters to get it as a gift and for my other daughter, I was happy to pay.

Let’s speak about the flip side
August 9, 2022 12:24 am

Let’s say there’s a bocher we’ll call him Mendy Mendy invests all of his energy into his campers for 18 out of 24 hours a day Mendy is kind to them Mendy insures they are all safe and having a great time Mendy takes money out of his own small canteen allowance (called a “paycheck” by the camp) in order to take his campers out in smaller groups for late nights after lights out Mendy is also shy and dosent run over to the parents on visiting day to share some fake nachas about how their kid who is a… Read more »

Ah, good ol’ Mendy
Reply to  Let’s speak about the flip side
August 9, 2022 9:43 am

I agree with everything except the shy and not wanting to greet the parents and share feedback.

If you’re shy, you have no business being a counselor. Go find a chesed program to break out of your shell.

Kids in camp deserve a lively vibrant counselor!

Secondly, my counselors shared their feedback, and if I misbehaved my parents gave it to me over the head.

Similarly, if someone under my charge was an terror, I made sure the parents (who the camper made sure to give their feedback on me…) knew exactly how their child acted.

Shy people can be counselors too
Reply to  Ah, good ol’ Mendy
August 9, 2022 10:38 am

Some people are great with kids but when it comes to talking to their parents, they suddenly get nervous. It’s 100% normal.
Kids do deserve a ‘lively vibrant counselor’ but they also deserve a responsible, caring and attentive counselor.
Sometimes, the ‘lively vibrant counselor’ may overlook the quieter kids. (This is obviously not always the case)

Disagree
Reply to  Ah, good ol’ Mendy
August 11, 2022 3:30 pm

I’ve had vibrant, lively counselors and usually they only connect to the popular, loud girls. The quieter counselors reach other types of girls. And most counselors aren’t shy with the kids–they might be shy/intimidated with the parents.

Bogus
Reply to  Ah, good ol’ Mendy
August 11, 2022 11:46 pm

I was that shy guy (I wasn’t a counselor, rather a learning teacher) who felt embarrassed to mill around the camp square as if I was desperate for the tips. It wasn’t an act of apathy. It’s just shyness. If you think only energizer bunnies can be nurturing to a child, whatever floats your boat.

I love the chessed program!
August 9, 2022 12:26 am

Personally, I love the chessed program and I’m more than happy to buy my volunteers a $10 gift certificate chanuka time.
Its very reasonable.
They come every week for an hour.

Only distantly related, but...
August 9, 2022 12:32 am

I remember in my yeshiva days, that they made a mivtzah for learning the maamar אנא נסיב מלכא for Yud Alef Nissan, and had major prizes for it.

The Rosh Yeshiva pointed out how ironic it is to use rewards as a motivation for learning a ma’amar that’s all about not doing things for rewards.

Of course you should show appreciation!
August 9, 2022 12:57 am

I was quite surprised when I read your opinion about not having to tip your children’s counselors. Every staff member in camp works nonstop for your child, the least you could do is show them a token of appreciation. Especially the counselors who take care of your children from the wee hours in the morning to late at night–Many times pulling all nighters to organize special things to enhance your childs day to the fullest. Many camps don’t even pay their counselors so your 20 dollars goes a long way. If you are unable to give a large amount at… Read more »

Missed the point
Reply to  Of course you should show appreciation!
August 9, 2022 11:00 am

You missed the ikar point of what the writer was saying. She is in favor of VOLUNTARY expressions of appreciation.

Common denominator
August 9, 2022 12:58 am

Thanks for this post. To me it seems both illustrations share a common thread. Camps don’t pay their counselors much if anything. Chessed programs don’t pay their student volunteers to do the chessed. But. Camps do charge tuition. And chessed programs raise money. Part of their financial structure is NOT to pay most of the actual ground troops. If they had to pay them, they’d probably have to charge more tuition and raise more money. So. Are counselors to work “for the inyan”? Are chessed volunteers to be volunteers? Or should they get money, but it come not from their… Read more »

Taking about.... What about all the fees the scho.
August 9, 2022 1:00 am

We have many ridiculous things going around that are not fair. But since everyone else dose it it’s all kosher. I enrolled my kids in first grade, they charged registration fee. Why need to pay each year for registration fee.!? The answer everyone else does it. Hey… Keep the same registration, as previous year…. Its same name same job. Same parents. If I don’t continue or move to an other school you will know… This type of scam goes on and on because everyone else does it. This is just an example but there’s more to it… Counselor should be… Read more »

...
Reply to  Taking about.... What about all the fees the scho.
August 10, 2022 9:53 pm

Stam the camp I’m in right now has the tips in cheshbon for the paycheck, so If the paycheck is 375 the director is counting on a min. of 625 from the parents. Now you have a director that won’t pay a parent that is insulted so won’t tip and the poor counselor is stuck in the middle

There is an opposite problem
August 9, 2022 1:08 am

I don’t know what your experience was, so I can’t talk about that. But I have been a counselor for many summers, and I can tell you that in my experience not only do the staff put tremendous amounts of work into every single day and night, going far beyond anything a paid worker would do, making so many sacrifices just so that the campers are happy and have a great time. Staff usually try to introduce themselves to parents and communicate with them about their child. I’m not saying that every staff member is an automatic tzadik, but usually… Read more »

Missed the point
Reply to  There is an opposite problem
August 9, 2022 11:03 am

The point is that the camp should be paying their counselors more – the parents are already paying exorbitant fees.

Staff are underpaid
August 9, 2022 1:10 am

Even if every parent in a bunk of 12 campes would give a $50 tip (wich may be considered a bit above average) the counclers would be getting $600 for a full month’s of work (24-7). job in what way is that not voluntary work. So… yeah I think the camp has a right to strongly request a small token of appreciation.

Um what
Reply to  Staff are underpaid
August 9, 2022 8:46 am

The counselors are working a job, the camp should be paying them.

Bochur
Reply to  Um what
August 9, 2022 7:42 pm

You’re paying 4k max for a chabad camp.
Nonjewish camps pay 600 a week to their staff and charge parents 8k.
Tipping is optional.

Ok.
Reply to  Staff are underpaid
August 9, 2022 2:19 pm

Being a counselor is not a 24/7 job. Being a counselor for many years I can tell you that you have off during learning class, you have off after lights out, and you have off during some of the sports, ex swimming.

Emes
Reply to  Ok.
August 12, 2022 6:56 am

Number one they are with them during sports and swimming, number two at night and learning class many times they are working for the campers benefit the next day

50 DOLLARS?!
Reply to  Staff are underpaid
August 9, 2022 3:38 pm

how is a family Supposed to afford that I just sent 4 kids To camp add it up $50 to Counselor’s for kids That equals $400 just for counselors not to mention learning teachers waiters etc.

Acts of goodness and kindness
August 9, 2022 1:31 am

What a great non attacking wake up call! Well written and good context. Parents too went to camp and were counselors once upon a time, so the idea of tipping is nothing new. Suggested tipping is how it used to read but regardless the directors have to insert in their staff meetings prior to camp how to interact with the campers giving them joy and happiness thru- out their day whether it be a kind word, complimenting their achievements and/or celebrating their efforts. Yes, on visiting days, introduce themselves to the parents and family members of their campers etc. Make… Read more »

3 Time Sleep Away Counselor
August 9, 2022 1:44 am

I have been a counselor in mainstream boys summer camps for the third year in a row, whoever wrote this cannot comprehend how much personal Time, personal money, and personal energy, that the counselors give to thier campers Your tip probably will help the counselor BREAK EVEN, for the personal money spent on your child. Staff literally go to bed with a massive headache and every bone sore, all with one thought in mind, the campers. When your kid is crying in middle of the night, the buchrim who are “not mentchlich, and have no work ethic” get out of… Read more »

Ok.
Reply to  3 Time Sleep Away Counselor
August 9, 2022 2:22 pm

I have to respond to this.
You don’t have to spend so much money to give the children a good summer. If you are spending all of your money it is your own choice and you don’t need to be reimbursed from the parents. If you expect a tip than you should reconsider your summer decision.

tips and being able to afford it
August 9, 2022 2:15 am

counselors do deserve tips and appreciation but the suggested amount is really way too much for a lot of families, especially with BH a lot of kinderlach

Very true
Reply to  tips and being able to afford it
August 9, 2022 3:34 pm

I sent 4 kids to camp this year Do the math $20 per tip for two counselors a waiter and learning teacher that’s $80 per kid if you had it up it’s 320 in just tips it’s outrageous

A fellow parent
August 9, 2022 2:27 am

While some of the concerns mentioned are valid, the tone of conversation is not valid.

Regarding camp. Did you go out of your way to meet the counselor/teacher? They might be intimidated by parents. Maybe it’s your job to make that effort. Additionally, just because they didn’t say hello to you, doesn’t mean that they didn’t make an effort for your kids.

Regarding the chesed pressure. Pay the girls $10-12 an hour and then you won’t have to tip.

Missed the point
Reply to  A fellow parent
August 9, 2022 11:06 am

If you’re paying the girls, how is this being mechanich them in chesed?

Camp tips
August 9, 2022 4:18 am

I believe that the Rebbe mentioned tipping when he visited the camps.

from a counselor and learning teacher
August 9, 2022 5:54 am

Visiting day IS the day off for counselors from their 24/7, two month jobs. If you want to find out about your kid then email the camp. I don’t think that the writer appreciates how much work and stress is involved in a counselors job. And the reason they make a suggested amount etc. is because unfortunately parents were not tipping. I can’t tell you how degrading and unapreciated you feel after a summer of putting yourself out there for someone elses kid and then you don’t get a single token of appreciation.

Ok.
Reply to  from a counselor and learning teacher
August 9, 2022 2:24 pm

Visiting day is not a day off. There are campers who don’t have visitors and just wander around camo for the whole day. Those kids need their counselor, so not a day off.

Camp
August 9, 2022 6:11 am

Unfortunately, although some camps are still really wonderful, some coldness and distance has started to sneak into the camp environs. It’s a shame, and the directors should take more responsibility to stop it.

It’s a reminder
August 9, 2022 6:22 am

There was a summer my family stayed in the City and my children attended the local day camps. I had always tipped their overnight camp counselors. It never dawned on me to tip the day camp staff until years later when one of my sons’ friends (by then a counselor in camp) mentioned it. I felt SO bad. I wish the camp had suggested it – as by then I did not even remember who the counselors had been.

fact is
August 9, 2022 6:55 am

look the fact is the percentage of our community living from fundraising is massive…. you do the maths

Open your eyes
August 9, 2022 7:10 am

We need to separate the volunteers from the leadership of charities
It’s hard to get volunteers so they promise the kids that they will get gifts which they are demanding from parents in order to maintain the charity running so later on they will make big charity events and raise money to sponsor hefty salary

Yossi
August 9, 2022 8:05 am

The OP is an ungrateful person. Instead of him seeking out the counselor to show appreciation for taking care of his little kid, he’s waiting for the counselor to approach him. The counselor is not working for the money, he’s working for the inyan and to have a good time. Meanwhile, the parents are paying peanuts for an amazing summer for their little kid. Most parents around the country that send their kids to overnight camp a paying 10 times what we pay at frum camps. This parent has zero appreciation for the fact that his kids counselor is working… Read more »

Way less
Reply to  Yossi
August 9, 2022 10:46 am

Like 59 cents and hour. Worst than minimum wage

On the other hand...
August 9, 2022 8:38 am

Giving tips much actually teach them that basic metchlich etiquette is to tip… how many bochurim know to tip that empire kosher guy that shlepped 4 heavy boxes to your apartment on the third floor with no elevator? How many girls know that you are supposed to tip the waiter when you eat out?

When we show the youth appreciation and showing them a healthy tipping culture they may very well learn what’s the right way when they’re a bit older and paying their own bills…

Roll eyes
Reply to  On the other hand...
August 9, 2022 9:05 am

It’s a stupid American tradition. In other countries its not a thing. Employers pay their employees. If you feel someone did something extra extra special then you tip. But it’s not expected which makes when you do give it more meaningful and doesn’t guilt you into it

WHAT????
Reply to  Roll eyes
August 9, 2022 11:13 am

The rebbe tipped every delivery boy!!!!!

On the other hand....
Reply to  On the other hand...
August 9, 2022 11:35 am

Your showing the youth it’s all money that counts. Without money you go no where. What ever happened to saying a nice word with feeling or doing someone a favor without having intention for a return? What happened to those values?! When I tell it to today’s youth they either have no idea what I’m referring to or say I’m a “goody goody” and welcome to today’s world. Shame on those parents for only teaching children that it’s only money that counts!

You obviously have never been a counsler in camp
August 9, 2022 8:48 am

I totally hear what your saying. It’s seemingly doesn’t make sense to give any additional money towards camp than the original payment you gave for the month. That is totally understandable. But I think you need to differentiate between “the camp” and “the counsler”. You should not be paying the counsler extra. You already paid for camp! You know who should be paying the counsler? THE CAMP. I can tell you from experience that the amount of tireless nights that goes into caring for your children is underestimated. The energy and devotion that every counsler invests in your children is… Read more »

Sounds reasonable
August 9, 2022 9:21 am

This HOO program sounds awesome! I’m happy to buy my volunteers a $10 gift.
How can I sign up to get girls!

Thank you!
August 9, 2022 9:22 am

Thank you BR for the HOO program! I have no complaints. I’m so appreciative to the program. My volunteers deserve my chanuka gift. And if they wouldn’t, I wouldn’t give it.

Don't sign up
August 9, 2022 9:30 am

If you are upset about $20 (2 volunteers – $10 each), dont sign up to the HOO program. They only ask the parents to give one gift throughout the entire year. And we know about it up front.

Thank you
August 9, 2022 9:35 am

Few people have the skill of articulating things well so it is very much appreciated when someone who does have this ability takes out the time to write and bring awareness to such an important issue. Kol Hacovod

I was a a hoo head and a camp counselor
August 9, 2022 10:40 am

I was a hoo head and a let me just say we are very under appreciated. Thank you to the camps that send out that suggested tip amount to remind the parents to send tips. When we as counselors get tips it shows us parents care and know what we do for their children. In regards to hoo unfortunately none of the girls like doing chessed they do it anyway and we try to give incentives to help get them to go. Its important that they’re chessed family appreciate them too!

Is it to do Chessed?
Reply to  I was a a hoo head and a camp counselor
August 9, 2022 7:57 pm

I’m not sure that you write that none of the girls like to do Chessed. Perhaps your point is that one should have Hakaras HaTov. That is very important. And it could be a letter of gratitude, a gift, tip, an acknowledgement.
Its important that we inculcate from a young age to do Chesed and in return some ppl need to learn to show more appreciation

Chesed
August 9, 2022 11:09 am

Many people do chesed. Chesed does not necessarily mean volunteer work. A doctor, a plumber, a teacher, etc – they are all paid for their work but chazal teach that if view what they do as chesed , then it is considered as chesed.

WHAT????
August 9, 2022 11:19 am

When the rebbe visited camps he personally gave every waiter a tip!

Confused
August 9, 2022 12:11 pm

Why’s everyone going crazy over $10..?

Right on the money (pun intended)
August 9, 2022 1:07 pm

This article is as accurate as can be. Who ever heard of demanding “tips” up front? Would those who protest this article be willing to pay for their home repairs up front before they saw the finished product? Would they happily pay full price for poor workmanship?Do they know the definition of the word “tip?” To the commentor who likened a counselor’s job to a job for which one pays by the hour: that’s pretty inane thinking. If you were to multiply each 24 hour day by the suggested $15.00 an hour you mention you would be paying each counselor… Read more »

Appreciation
August 9, 2022 1:18 pm

My son is a Councler in a certain camp and they take great care of him and all the staff and they know it’s a lot of work as I’m sure you all know … and Councler’s and young boys or girls and instead of and asking for tips gave to face which can be intimidating for a 17-20 year old the camp goes and takes that away from them and sends a nice email and dose it for them which is a big help and it makes things smooth and not awkward !! So your basically saying they should… Read more »

Think for a second
August 9, 2022 1:30 pm

I just finished camp and all l have to say to all this discussion about tipping staff is please stay silent. Tipping is optional. Most non-Jewish camps charge 8k. Most Jewish camps charge 3k. Staff get paid between $200-$500. Bochurim are treated like slaves not just in Yeshiva but also with their summers. Even if it’s volunteer work it’s not right. Being staff in camp isn’t easy. Instead of complaining can you thank us? Entitled? Maybe our generation is. But selfish? Excuse me? Selfish? Majority of us go to yeshiva on our parents initiative. Learn for 14 hours a day.… Read more »

Understanding both sides
August 9, 2022 1:31 pm

I worked in camp for the past 2 years as a counselor. I could tell you without a doubt that not a single staff member comes to camp for the money. However when a parent tips a counselor it makes him feel like a million dollars because he sees that the parent actually cares. The amount of time and devotion a staff member commits to camp is literally crazy. We work so hard to make you children have an awesome time. So a little tip of appreciate doesn’t hurt.

Complainer
August 9, 2022 2:15 pm

You say they don’t know how to work, do you actually think they are doing a bad job? If you can afford to show appreciation with tips, do it with a smile, if you can’t afford it, give a note, a chocolate bar, idk, or at least say thank you and be polite. Or say nothing…. This complaining definitely isn’t giving an example of mentchlichkeit. Our young teenagers do deserve to be treated nicely, their hard work acknowledged, especially when pay is often little or we are talking about volunteering. We, the adults are not entitled to make demands of… Read more »

Tip Culture
August 9, 2022 2:41 pm

A few points to share. Is this entitlement culture? No! It’s the USA “Tip Culture” totally out of hand. Sounds like needs to have a moral compass reset as a tip is always voluntary and paid ‘after’ services have been delivered. No one should be told to give, nor how much. The important thing is to show appreciation. That can be verbally a nicely written letter of thanks or a monetary gesture or gift. Flip the coin a bit…. parents should seek out their child’s counsellor to express their appreciation for what they have done as apposed to counsellor looking… Read more »

oh please
August 9, 2022 3:03 pm

i have several children in camps, both boys and girls. As well as kids that are counselors . None of the various camps they are in “demanded tips” they just sent a suggested amo9unt with a way to pay directly . I personally appreciate it – i always find tipping at the beginning of camp beneficial t my child 🙂 . as for the non tippers, i remember from when i was a counselor which parents didnt tip, till today some 20 plus years later- it has nothing to do with money either – some of the wealthier families didnt… Read more »

It’s not nice
August 9, 2022 3:10 pm

Tipping is out of control. During visiting day its all about tipping and a lot of times Staff members mainly waiters but also counselors Go to camp because their friends are in this camp and they just wanna have an enjoyable summer most counselors today and waiters don’t come because they Are truly dedicated to the camp in the camper. the main reason that they come is because like Like I Mentioned just wanna have fun. If there is a counselor that is truly dedicated to the campers and shows up on time every day and Tries to engage the… Read more »

Friends
Reply to  It’s not nice
August 9, 2022 6:27 pm

Counselors that go with groups of friends doesn’t mean that they aren’t dedicated one doesn’t necessarily equal another

Dedicated Staff Member
Reply to  It’s not nice
August 10, 2022 4:27 pm

Okay, obviously people want to go to a camp where they know the people who they’re working with, but that doesn’t mean that’s the only reason why they’re going. Its 100% a plus, but it’s only a reason to choose one camp over the other, not why to go to camp. If you’re wanted to be with friends, you would convince them to work with you somewhere to make good money, not having to deal with someone’s annoying child all day

Yossel
August 9, 2022 4:18 pm

The same holds true for giving Tzedaka. Nowadays it’s become all too common to spend “Maaser Money” on Chinese Auctions with the promise of “Fabulous Prizes” like jewelry, car rentals, furniture,band trips to Israel. Plus donors are wined and dined at these “Fress Fests.” What happened to giving Tzedaka for the sake of the Mitzva?

Yankel
Reply to  Yossel
August 9, 2022 9:43 pm

Its geulah times! How cool is it that It’s become so easy to do the great mitzvah of Tzedakah! So many more people are giving so much more Tzedakah because of all these auctions and dinners! Just another perspective 🙂

Tip your kids counselors!
August 9, 2022 4:43 pm

Although we always tipped our children’s counselors (even in day camp), I never realized how important it is until my own children were counselors. Especially in overnight camp, where these young girls and boys are basically working 24/7 for barely any pay. My daughter would be up all night planning activities for her campers both in day camp and overnight camp. And it also has become common practice , at least in the girls overnight camps, to make going away gifts for all their campers. And that comes from their own pocket! They really put so much time and energy… Read more »

I’m a counselor
August 9, 2022 5:03 pm

I understand it’s not pleasant to have money demanded from you, but as a counselor I can tell you how important those tips are. Being a counselor is one of the hardest jobs! You literally exhaust yourself in every way, physically, emotionally, everything. And, you don’t get paid much at all. Of course we don’t do it for money cuz if money was The reason we would find a different job, but after all that hard work, appreciation is needed. I once was a counselor of a really hard bunk and got tipped by just two parents!!! Thats it. And… Read more »

Inside perspective
August 9, 2022 5:38 pm

I was a learning teacher Put it this way At least where i was it was a given that we were here on the rebbes shlichus over yeshivas kayitz Yes it’s in a way also a job but that’s totally not the point Trust me No one went for the 375$ If so then he would have to be insane But we also know which kids come from where and no one is expecting a tip as a given but i know who comes from a well off family and would definitely appreciate a tip On the other side The… Read more »

All camp staff
August 9, 2022 6:03 pm

If I sign up for a job I want money. If I volunteer I want some recognition of my hard work. As a learning teacher in a mainstream camp I had to physically hold back a suicidal kid from running into the street. No problem. Not expecting the camp or the parents (both who I tried talking to and just ignored me) to pay me the big bucks or even to tip me. A nice $1 card with a note would be plenty from the parents and support in my job from the camp would be nice. But lacking both… Read more »

Being a counsellor is not a job
August 9, 2022 6:06 pm

It is a shlichus. Seriously. Many kids take summer internships that are unpaid, in order to get skills in the area that they wish to pursue, or just for general life experience. (Of course there are laws governing unpaid internships so that they don’t become exploitative.) In the country I grew up in (not the US) we never got paid to be overnight counsellors an did it as a sign of hakaras hatov for the community organisations that gave us so much. Of course camp was much shorter, and that’s another conversation about why school ends so early and the… Read more »

It doesn’t have to be $$$
August 9, 2022 6:15 pm

I’m a counselor and any gift which shows appreciation works great
I remember the parents who wrote me thank you cards (which cost next to nothing) more than the ones who tipped a lot

What?!?
August 9, 2022 7:19 pm

Were you ever a counselor? By the way your saying this obviously not. We’ll I am, and let me tell you it’s A LOT harder then you think, show some appreciation, TIP!

Regarding tips
August 9, 2022 7:33 pm

I don’t think parents these days understand how much work every counselor puts in to the kids entrusted into their care mind u each one has 14 campers who r not necessarily the most well behaved we also get paid only 300$ in canteen for the whole summer so tips is the only money we rly make so therefore as an appreciation a tip for taking care of ur kid 24/7 doesn’t sound that crazy(the suggested amount is 12$ a week 50 per session)

since when….
August 9, 2022 10:48 pm

tipping is a way of showing appreciation to staff member in camp. its especially important to tip your waiters who don’t get paid at all and actually have to pay $500.00 to come to camp. Waiters work really hard They don’t get as much appreciation as they deserve. They serve 42+ campers and 6 staff every single day 3 times a day 7 days a week no days off including Shabbos and fast days it’s a really demanding stressful job and requires lots of patience to satisfy the needs of each individual camper… it’s a full time job starting with… Read more »

Sad truth
August 10, 2022 2:16 pm

I have been around the world/ worked in different camps and schools and I have never seen as much entitlement as I do in American teens today, it’s very unfortunate because this is not how the real world works.

Really, now...
August 21, 2022 7:07 am

bs”d What a miracle there even is camp this year, after the last two summers… would you like to be 18 again and not know if you will get a shidduch, and if you ever will have children of your own, or if you even will be alive next year due to more epidemics, street terrorism, unreasonably strict laws in Diaspora, etc… you must be taking your security as an adult who is married and has children for granted. Then, please don’t. You were yotzei the mitzvos of getting married and having children, but these young people haven’t gotten there… Read more »

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