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Monday, 19 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 22, 2019

    What’s in That Coffee Pot

    From the COLlive Inbox: Mrs. Becky Brownstein from S. Paul, MN, witnessed a major kashrus blunder by a flight attendant on a Southwest Airlines flight, who then went on to brag about it. Full Story

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    You never know!
    Guest
    You never know!

    I doubt that the pot would have any meat in it but the problem is that because the pot was hot and the meat was treif it would render the pot treif. Cold food is a different question that would need to be addressed by a rav.

    interesting..
    Guest
    interesting..

    wonder if they care enough to do anything.
    thank G-d i dont like coffee.

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    I always encouraged people not to have coffee or tea on the plain. This certainly adds weight to it.

    Thank G-d
    Guest
    Thank G-d

    Although a coffee addict, I have always refrained from using the hot liquid or coffee provided no planes.
    I actually thought of having some coffee on a recent flight, b”h I didn’t do it.

    Huh?
    Guest
    Huh?

    Never understood why people drank coffee on the plane in the first place. Cholov Yisrael issues aside, the pots are washed with treif dishes. As for soda fountains, it is cold, so it may be permitted there (consult your Rav for a ruling)

    Botul beshishim
    Guest
    Botul beshishim

    No wonder the coffee always tastes so good!

    Aaron
    Guest
    Aaron

    BS”H a frum Jew has no business drinking from any public coffe pot, even the soap used to clean it is tref, so you have added nothing to the standards of Jews who are true Yira shmaim

    Shtuss lavan.E.Coli dies at 160 degrees F. Salmonella dies at temps about 150 degrees F
    Guest
    Shtuss lavan.E.Coli dies at 160 degrees F. Salmonella dies at temps about 150 degrees F

    Water boils at 212 degrees F.
    If the coffee pot boils afterwards to 212 degrees F,and she washes it well with soap, it is one level of a self kashering keli ..After 24 hours cleaned,dry and unused.,and then boiled,it is a second level and much safer to drink from .Worry more about the lettuce in your salads at the end of summertime before the first frost.,warm weather fancy “spring arugala”salad mixes that are not pre washed,with a hecksher and then thoroughly washed and inspected at home .

    Rabbi Bogomilsky
    Guest
    Rabbi Bogomilsky

    In addition to this problem which is indeed very rare there is a constant problem which could apply to coffee on each and every flight . The coffee pots from which they serve are washed together with all the treif utensils/ Therefore I always advise people that if you must have a coffee in flight ask the attendants to fill the PAPER cup with hot water that comes direct from the hot water spout that is built into the wall in the kitchen area from which the attendants prepare the food and get hot water to put into the pitchers… Read more »

     wow cant trust nobody
    Guest
    wow cant trust nobody
    Kosher Food on the Plane
    Guest
    Kosher Food on the Plane

    I haveyet to meet someone who REALLY enjoys the food on the plane, i have learnt to order a FRUIT PLATTER ( i only fly El Al) and i take sandwhiches. Its great, all the fruit is cut up ready to ear, of course the problem comes at Shmitta, but there are always problems.

    just wondering
    Guest
    just wondering

    isnt the coffee pot glass in which case i dont think there would be a kashrus issue

    ew!
    Guest
    ew!

    that’s disgusting!!!!! thanks for sharing!

    Halacha
    Guest
    Halacha

    Although this is a terrible story one should not conclude to change the halachic status of a chazaka.

    I’m not a posek, but the concept of chazaka means that we can halachikly assume something based on a common fact even though there is a minute possibility that it is not so and something as in this case is factored in as the 1 in a million. Of course it should be investigated etc and she should follow up. I”m talking to those that would want to make an outright “psak” based on this story.

    even in the coffee shops!
    Guest
    even in the coffee shops!

    I’m a convert to Judaism, & I have experience working in treif restaurants. Everything gets thrown into the same sinks for rinsing/washing – even the soda fountain spigets! You can not go to a fast food drive-in just for a soda without drinking from a spiget that’s been washed along with the burger and/or bacon flipper or the fry basket that’s sat in lard while the fries and/or fish cooked! Treif restaurants are completely treif – no exceptions! I’m sure the same should be held for treif plane food service – and that’s why kosher plane food must be delivered… Read more »

    Omg
    Guest
    Omg

    Omg

    GO BEC
    Guest
    GO BEC

    MAIDEL

    sp?
    Guest
    sp?

    To number 3 its plane…

    thank you becky
    Guest
    thank you becky

    well written and super important!

    amazed
    Guest
    amazed

    BH

    I am amazed how every blogger and commentator has become a Posek. This story is purely anecdotal.

    The Shulchan Aruch says you can drink coffee (without milk) in the home of a non-Jew.

    As Hilel says, “Go and learn!”

    to #11
    Guest
    to #11

    be careful cut fruit is also problematic you have to be careful about the knife

    Oy va voy...
    Guest
    Oy va voy...

    but this is a problem that can happen even in a kosher establishment with a full time mashgiach.

    Rabbi ignorant
    Guest
    Rabbi ignorant

    B”H #20 where in the Alter Rebbes Shulchan Aruch does it say that

    What's with the "cleaning with traife pots" thing.It takes a long time for a flavor to cook into a vessel
    Guest
    What's with the "cleaning with traife pots" thing.It takes a long time for a flavor to cook into a vessel

    if it is metal.(and they are stainless steel as I recall) and no way will it exceed the boiling temperature for an extended period.These metal vessels are self kashering ,especially sitting on the heat source(as opposed to fifteen seconds at maximum temperature (180 to 212degrees F) As someone who has worked with most of the top kashrus agencies in America and Israel,this should be quietly addressed with the top kashrus agencies , top notch poskim and the airlines.I remember calling Rv.Marlow several times on huge event kashrus issues that I thought were impossible to use ,yet he never said no….Not… Read more »

    To #11, #21
    Guest
    To #11, #21

    El Al flights would also have a Terumah and Maaser issue on a continuous basis.

    GO BECKKY!!!
    Guest
    GO BECKKY!!!

    LONG BEACH REPRESENT!!

    i saw something similar
    Guest
    i saw something similar

    On my past flight on southewest, I saw a steward eating chicken in the kitchen of the plane,right next to the coffee pots and I figured they may b touching the hot coffee pots with their hands before washing them so it is probably treig. I figured they might pour water directly on something treif too and with the rising steam,this can also treif up the coffee pot

    uuummm
    Guest
    uuummm

    how was that bragging. she probably isnt aware that what she is doing is wrong and was just telling someone how she makes it. dont accuse people of things they didnt do. bragging would be her saying that she puts meat in the coffee pot and then serves jewish people and muslims and vegetarians from that pot. but from what you say she isnt doing it out of spite but rather ignorance.

    please post the response
    Guest
    please post the response

    if the airline get’s back to you

    What about your home help?
    Guest
    What about your home help?

    How do you know that your home help -babysitter or cleaning lady doesn’t heat up her lunch in your microwave?

    STARBUCKS
    Guest
    STARBUCKS

    Why is Starbucks any better? Who is the mashgiach there?

    GO 31
    Guest
    GO 31

    I AGREE

    Please...
    Guest
    Please...

    ….post response from airline when you recieve it. Thanks.

    Problem with starbucks
    Guest
    Problem with starbucks

    The Starbucks full service stores sell meat sandwiches and their coffee is not kosher due to the way the equipment is washed. The little kiosks on the turnpike or in airports can be used if the need for coffee is very strong because it is assumed the no meat products are prepared on the premises. If a driver is very tired, he can buy the coffee in the gas station or truck stop but Mountain Dew soft drink is equally caffeinated.

    Bishul Akum
    Guest
    Bishul Akum

    Isn’t there also a problem of a goy cooking the coffee beans for you according to some shitas.

    From what i have read about STARBUCKS BEING NOT KOSHER it is the bishul akum + kelim washed with treif. This would lechoira also apply to ice coffee as i assume all coffee is brewed first.

    Hey!
    Guest
    Hey!

    Do you live in the same apartment as the Greenbergs? i live in S. Paul too! Go you!

    Rev itche der masmid
    Guest
    Rev itche der masmid

    (if I’m not mistaken) was once on a train and he asked the goy for a cup of tea, later on he saw the goy pull out a sausage and dip it into the urn!! When he came to the (I think) frierdike rebbe or rebbe rashab and told him what happnd the rebbe answerd him “you have to be very carefull with what goes in your mouth!!!!!!!!
    Similar don’t you think?!?!?

    Don't Be an Ostrich
    Guest
    Don't Be an Ostrich

    People, stop burying your heads in the sand. Here’s a video that turned up on a quick search for flight attendants cooking tips. They cook their dinner on clothes irons. Do you still think cooking steak in a stainless steel coffee pot is far fetched? Wake up and smell the coffee!!

    Misleading
    Guest
    Misleading

    She did not witness rather overheard a conversation.

    so unprofessional
    Guest
    so unprofessional

    It doesnt matter if nothing happened or its very improbable that something bad will happen, she’s serving what people think is strictly coffee, even if you are ignorant its common sense that you dont do such thing!! and they could be doing this with any food! imagine somebody is deathly allergic to milk and she put milk in it instead??? it was not only unprofessional but also irresponsable. sad that its normal today…
    thank you for taking the time and alerting people who might not know about this..

    not normal...
    Guest
    not normal...

    that’s why I never drink hot drinks in any none kosher store…and you want to hear something else, what about 7 eleven stores for a slurpy? even the 7 eleven stores who have a hachsor I dont trust!!! go look into that!!!

    now.
    Guest
    now.

    easy. don’t drink coffee on southwest. For that matter don’t fly southwest it’s obviously an airline that one cannot trust.

    I agree....
    Guest
    I agree....

    …with #20. This article was evidently meant as information and everyone has turned into their version of Psak Din.

    and now we have people saying not to fly on the airline because it shouldn’t be trusted. Gee….what’s next?

    Hachlota
    Guest
    Hachlota

    A bunch of us were sitting at a wedding tonight an decided not to drink coffee at any of the second cups that r not run by yidden. also the ones that r run by yidden but sell cholov yisroel and not cholov yisroel, and danish that r pas yisroel and not, u really have to be careful u don’t know what goes on behind the scenes!!!

    Levi
    Guest
    Levi

    BH In the Shulchan Oruch YD114 the Yad Ephraim says that it is ok to drink coffee and tea in the home of a non-Jew, so long as it’s not done all the time. We are not worried about bishel achum or the kailem because chances are that they were not used in the past 24 hours. (Even if they were we say it’s ok becuase you’re not doing it an a regular basis.) Of course, this is without milk. For this reason it would include a cofffee shop or a plane as well. See also the Pischay Teshuvah YD… Read more »

    # 45
    Guest
    # 45

    Nowadays it has become the norm 4 all to drink in Second cups and other coffee shops Its on a regular basis and planned, Its the place to meet … and it’s not OK!!

    airline coffee pot
    Guest
    airline coffee pot

    last time i was on a plane, i heard someone behind me complaining that they emptied out the coffee pot in the toilet on the bathroom! even from a health standpoint that’s really disgusting! there are all sorts of particles in the air and plenty of things that can splash onto the coffee pot on the airplane. really gross.

    So true #46
    Guest
    So true #46

    lets stick to our own pizza shops, and bakeries for coffee and danish, we never let our kids go to these other coffee shops , even just to meet friends or study.. Would you go to a Macdonalds just for a slurpie or a soda…. ???? Its pretty much the same thing!!!

    klara
    Guest
    klara

    fly el al

    batya banayan
    Guest
    batya banayan

    oh my i just realized that its you becky! this is terrible but thanks for sharing! its important we all know these things…

    to #6
    Guest
    to #6

    Botul beshishim only applies when both substances are liquids. A small piece of treife fleish in a big pot of liquid is NOT botul beshishim.

    Be on the Safe Side
    Guest
    Be on the Safe Side

    It would be wiser, I think, to just ask for sealed bottles or cans of soda or water when traveling.

    Love!
    Guest
    Love!

    Ah my friend the celebrity. 😉

    X