Wednesday, 12 Tishri, 5781
  |  September 30, 2020


What are Bochurim Thinking?

Op-Ed by Rabbi Hanoch Hecht: After meticulously discussing the system of dating within our communities, we came to the conclusion that it is not the system that is failing us, rather it is the people within the system that are failing. Full Article

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the essence
June 13, 2013 12:42 am

Who even looks into the essence of the person? So many families are looking into the family and dismiss a person purely based on the family if there is a divorce or a non frum sibling. The superficiality begins with the parents and trickles down to their children. Think about it.

Sad mother
December 12, 2012 4:12 am

What about all the guys who ‘wont travel’. Do they imagine that the girls can just drop their jobs and lives and travel around the world all the time? Aside from both the emotional and financial cost, an older single has also developed a llife and cannot sit around in either CH or another city while many of these guys ‘make time’ to meet a couple of times and then say, ‘well I’m busy, if you’re coming into town again we could date a bit more but I dont have time now’?? There are a lot of older guys out… Read more »

August 5, 2011 8:48 pm

What’s funny about all this is that people seem to think that there is ONE set way to meeet someone. while, as everyone knows much too well, EVERYONE is different. If you think dating a person 5 times is enough to make a life long decision then go for it! I personally don’t think it works like that unless your relationship is based ONLY on your proffesion and future plans. I don’t see how a relationship, of emotional status, can be aroused in that short time. if it is, then there ya go and get married! No one is stopping… Read more »

April 15, 2011 7:31 am

sounds like a lot of fun!!!!! never new that getting married is sooooooo difficult!!! not that i have aaaaany clue of dating and stuff, i am just 17 years old, but i think if u find the bachur boring , u are not gonna bother meeting him again. so…………the date has to be fun,!!!!!!!

out of towner
April 11, 2011 4:05 pm

probably all this people that are talking about the fact that is wrong to have few people to date when u have to fly far away,are crowhighsers , cuz like the guy #35 said , it gets really expensive … you cant fly every two months in ny … and i wouldnt want to be like one of these 100 girls that walk around in crown heights in order to get marrie, if u want to get marrie, work seriously with a shadchan and you will end up finding the right one … i dont like the idea of wandering… Read more »

concerned mother
July 26, 2010 7:57 pm

rabbi your on the mark….so solutions please……..how does one get daters to get serious?And shadchanim to HEAR them with patience……and delicately guide them?????????????waiting an article in response, thanks, tizku l,mitzvos

June 23, 2010 9:57 am

why is everything about size? im a size six and proud of it!

May 12, 2010 10:05 am


girls far from ch
January 17, 2010 10:01 am

there are many girls who have been in ch for many years and who have become depressed as all their lifes focus is shidduchim… and they are still single. It is an environment which sadly is not conducive to happy people. You are far from family, far from home, have to rely on other people for shabbos meals etc. When girls remain in there home countries whether it be Australia, Israel, South Africa or even South America they are surrounded by their families, home, doing the things they want to be doing and are therefore able to be happy better… Read more »

commenting on the article
November 25, 2009 1:53 pm

just because someone may be deemed “a chilled out bochur” doesnt mean that the individual is less of a learner. and just because a person can sometimes be a “chassidishe” or serious” bochur, doesnt mean he has the abilities or skills to be a serious lerner.

Did anyone consider?
October 28, 2009 1:40 pm

#1) As R. Hecht said it should be only 1 girl at a time AND for those who need to travel – after checking references – ever thought of having a few dates by phone to speak [or skype?] to see if you have enough in common so that you know to make the trip and it will be “worthwhile”? #2) why can’t there be an online resource similar to askMoses.com – where bochurim or sem girls can IM, email or call an acknowledge list of chassidishe, properly educated and practical counselors – so that shidduch issues/questions can be addressed… Read more »

September 12, 2009 10:44 pm

just wanted to make 114 comments

to #2
September 10, 2009 1:37 pm

You’re nasty! And who says that people who only have one prospective date aren’t willing to travel?! I know some who do….and they’re not all girls!

Question to #103
August 5, 2009 2:03 pm

Including those who have these issues????

To one "with a son who's looking for his bashert"
August 5, 2009 2:00 pm

>>with a son who’s looking for his bashert
>>How about the guys with massive egos who are looking >>for a girl who’s a size zero, with a face to stop traffic & a >>Daddy who has a very healthy bank balance?

>>What about the girls who are looking for a professional,r
>>ich, & handsome “orphan”, or at least one who isn’t tied >>to mama’s apron?

Do not worry, they will meet each other…

To Sim Shalom Org
July 26, 2009 2:50 am

All I can say is some of what you say is important but the way you present your argument is not at all beneficial to your own point of view. Remember that no one wants to be criticised, and that to get your own view across to the other person, he/she must feel like they are being heard. It’s only when you have softened the boundaries that you can push your point across. Anyway, I don’t think that that writer was saying that American boys need to travel to Australia. The point was that Australia is a very viable place… Read more »

July 25, 2009 5:20 pm

#108 that was exactly the point of #106!!!
“it just shows that BOTH sides need to have the same values in terms of dating in order for it to work. “

July 23, 2009 11:18 am

your story does not prove that dating with a single focus is wrong. it just shows that BOTH sides need to have the same values in terms of dating in order for it to work. i live out of CH and unfortunately have been in the shidduch seen for a number of years. whenever somebody flies in for me, i am extra careful to give the prospect proper time and attention. i try not to delve too deeply into the decision making process until after two, and many times three, meetings. i feel that it is only respectful to someone… Read more »

to the loser in 337 Sim shalom org
July 23, 2009 1:10 am

Australians are not losers. In face we are some of the most well known and most liked girls in chabad seminaries today! and some of us live here because we need to be on shlichus in OUR communities. the Rebbe emphasised shlichus not sitting in crown heights and does it hurt to give a little back to the people who helped raise you!

Think before you speak loser!

July 22, 2009 2:07 pm

I have read the books you all quote here, i have learned about shiduchim, i search for articles, etc… Every person is a different “problem”, if for someone is not knowing enought about it for others is not having a good shadchan, or the parents, or even yourself, etc (the list goes on and on on who to blame) the truth is you can not say one specific thing b/c this crises has been going on for years, and no one can solve it in a few words, you think by just writing everything you know and think or something… Read more »

to the author
July 22, 2009 10:44 am

your article makes you seem like you are far removed from the “dating scene” and unaware of whats going on. if im not mistaken, you are no more than 26 yeas old and couldn’t have dated that long ago. unless you didnt go about your dating in the conventional manner. either way, your next article should be one where you draw from your own experiances

V'NOMAR AYMEN!!!!!!!!!
July 22, 2009 7:34 am
to #92
July 21, 2009 4:31 pm

Noone wants to marry someone who is overweight with health issues. this applies to boys and girls.

July 21, 2009 1:28 pm

As soon as I started Davening everyday, actually twice a day, Mincha too, and saying Chitas everyday,which I never did in my life.And I only Davened till I finished Seminary, I found excellent Shidduchim for my children.Of course, not with my hands folded,I did my stressful calls every single solitary day without exception,except Shabbos, but then went back to it Motzei Shabbos.And I will tell you, I saw how the Aibershter makes every single Shidduch. You must do both: Daven and Work. The Aibershter puts us against the wall

a joke
July 21, 2009 7:53 am

A shadchan (matchmaker) goes to see a poor man and says, “I want to arrange a marriage for your son.” The poor man replies, “I never interfere in my son’s life.” The shadchan responds, “But the girl is Lord Rothschild’s daughter.” “Well, in that case…” Next, the shadchan approaches Lord Rothschild. “I have a husband for your daughter.” “But my daughter is too young to marry.” “But this young man is already a vice president of the World Bank.” “Ah, in that case…” Finally, the shadchan goes to see the president of the World Bank. “I have a young man… Read more »

shidduch crisis resolved
July 21, 2009 6:24 am

let’s focus on a solution: Guys, a girl’s size is not a guarantee for any prolonged period of time, u do realize that? Unless the idea of having children is foreign to u. Because of this so-called crisis, guys are somehow entitled to making ridiculous demands yet it is okay for him to show looking like he just woke up without a plan of where to go or what to do. Yes, imagine, take the time to prepare for the date and keep an open mind. I am very sorry we can’t all look like the Hollywood actresses but let’s… Read more »

Thanks for The Comedy! "Comedy Show"
July 21, 2009 4:56 am

Scuse me……… #76?

I am Single and have dating for way longer than desired, So Dude! Have a sense of Humor!
The only way to get through shidduchim and Life is to laugh 🙂
And come on, that conversation with #31 was funny !
thanks for laugh peoples….

The Best Shadchan
July 21, 2009 4:51 am

G-d help us all!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get yourselves off facebook, stop complying with requests for a zillion references and even worse pictures-
Deal with people you trust – just like you do when picking a mashpia – and most importantly remember always that neither you nor your mother nor your friend and not even your shadchan are the ones finding your bashert – that was done by G-D before you were born!!!! Just let HIM do his work!

To #96
July 21, 2009 4:47 am

Everyone is entitled to make their own choices but I for one think it’s absurd to fly to Australia to meet a girl for the first time and would never do it.
I think a girl like that who needs to date in a place where she’s from (?!?!) would eventually want to live downunda anyway so she’s probably better off staying in Australia and dating Aussies..

Flying on a Jet Plane...
July 21, 2009 4:34 am

Australian girls are beginning to stay DownUnder after seminary as opposed to living in Ch… There are many reasons. 1. They grew up in a far away place and when they move here they dont necessarily have any family or friends whose homes they can eat in for Shabbos and Yom Tov – imagine, living in a basement for 4/5 years and often eating alone on such days. 2. There is plenty of Shlichus in Australia that needs to be done -why do it here? 3. A girl enjoys dating in a place where she is comfortable. 4. Why should… Read more »

To #86
July 20, 2009 6:07 pm

You see, that’s what I thing is very wrong with the way many ppl in CH think. You think that because I complimented a girl on her intelligence and said that I saw more in her post then the mention of her size (as she was assuming) and I also said she’s the type of girl I would date therefore you conclude that I’m conjuring up an imaginary person in my mind who is my future wife. Does that mean that if I meet a girl who I’m impressed with she will be (in my mind) my future wife? Can… Read more »

tp #90
July 20, 2009 5:50 pm

Ya, she does (it is a she you’re talking about, right?) – she does not want to talk to a boy. adult or not adult, in our circles, boys and girls dont talk to each other before marriage. Need I explain further? As to the beginning of you’re comment, it looked to me like she was simply answering someone’s question, which no one else did, and proving it with personal experience. Have you read the latest article yet on the top of the collive homepage? maybe that’s why she adds a few words about non-dieting. sheesh, a little dan l’caf… Read more »

TO #31
July 20, 2009 5:27 pm


hopelessly obese
July 20, 2009 4:44 pm

hello everyone. i \am just about the nicest person youve ever met. and i happen to have an unusually attractive face. I have a dazzling smile and twinkly eyes. My issue is my weight. and guess what ive had that issue since i started dating 7 and a half years ago and guys these days are all the same- they only care about size!~~!! get a life you “bochurim” where is the chassidish varmkeit that existed 50 years ago? where has this generation come to? boys get your eyes in the sfarim and off the girls sizes! its pnimius that… Read more »

Sim Shalom Org
July 20, 2009 3:14 pm

To #87:
“…you label yourself as a shliach…”

Huh? One either is or one isn’t. No labels. Or, perhaps you called yourself one and it no more than a label?
The bottom line. I read and re-read your precious words. You apparently still don’t get it.

Listen and learn..

To #89
July 20, 2009 3:03 pm

Intresting…you tell all that visit this site thee size of you’re body and how you acheived it (#82) yet you will not have a normal discussion with anothr adult. Glad to see you have all of you’re values incheck.

to #84
July 20, 2009 2:45 pm

Thanks for your response to my comment. I wish to clarify that I had no intention of implying that your comment specifically (or any of the specific comments) are inappropriate. I was referring to the general idea of making your own shidduch based on online, annonymous comments, especially with such a large, diverse audience reading and following every word. Perhaps the use of the word “inappropriate” was incorrect, however, for lack of a better word, I used it. I will not be commenting further on this, since I do not wish to engage in prolonged discussion with a boy, even… Read more »

To all the people making shidduchim on collive
July 20, 2009 2:03 pm

If these shidduchim actually work out that’s great….. but just keep in mind that this is totally anonymous so you could be talking to your own cousin or something…And remember that not everyone on the internet is who they say they are.

To Sim Shalom Org
July 20, 2009 11:49 am

Great, you label yourself as a shliach and a counsellor. Nevertheless, you are prepared to call me self centred and a loser? I didn’t realise those equated.
Thankfully, I have enough self esteem to not be put off by meaningless internet posts from people who think they have an opinion but only can’t wait to put their two cents in.

to #79
July 20, 2009 11:26 am

Wow, you already figured out your future wife and want to meet her over a hundred words she wrote?

#35 is back
July 20, 2009 11:14 am

Bottom line – Is it okay to plan a trip overseas for meeting more than just one person, or does each shidduch proposal proposal gets a “l’shem yichud” of its own flight and costly expenses??

The article suggests it’s wrong to go planning on meeting more than one. Many comments seemed to suggest that there is nothing wrong with covering a few proposals on one trip.

I’m confused and would like to know the right answer.

Feed back please!!

To #82
July 20, 2009 10:19 am

There is nothing inappropriate about my (#79) observation. In fact the word “inappropriate” means nothing to me since its definition is so vague and is subject to anyone’s opinion and approval. You may think it’s “inappropriate” for a girl to use a computer altogether that does not mean I should feel it’s “inappropriate” to comment on a girls post.
To #31 I’m sure if you write it, it will be intelligent but be prepared for lots of comments from ppl that don’t like to think for themselves.

to 81
July 20, 2009 9:55 am

sure, go ahead! would love to read it

#31, 47, 53, 59, 60, 65, 71, 73, 79
July 20, 2009 9:52 am

What on earth is going on here? At first I thought it was cute, and potentially exciting, that maybe a shidduch could be made through the collive comments, but this is already getting inappropriate!!! we’re a mixed audience here.
And PS #73 – yes it is possible, I’m a 0 also, (naturally, not from dieting) and no I am not trying to get a date through here. (0 is just a number on a label, though it does make it sound like the wearer doesn’t exist 🙂 )

31 agaaaainnn
July 20, 2009 9:11 am

I think I am going to write my own op-ed, what do you think?

To #74
July 20, 2009 8:50 am

If you think being a size #12 is not your best feature why is it the ONLY thing you write? If you were selling a car to someone would you say “do you want a car that has a scratch?” NO, you would talk about why the car is the right one for him. So when you sell yourself, sell on you qualities. I personally believe that girls that are heavier than average (I don’t know what size 12 means) have it better in a social meeting setting than in a set-up blind date setting. In a social meeting a… Read more »

To #31
July 20, 2009 8:18 am

You got me thinking cause when I read your post I was also thinking “now that’s a kind of girl I would date”. Then in 65 you wrote to #47 that he likes you because you’re a size 2. I disagree. You are underestimating us guys. If you’re post said “available size 2” you wouldn’t have had the response that you have. Here’s what I saw in your post 1) You’re someone who questions and you question the system and people like me like to identify with ppl who sound like you do in #31. Like when you mention that… Read more »

TO #74
July 20, 2009 7:52 am

Yes, your bashert wants you. I hope him and his parents are mentchen so it happens sooner rather than later! (You can’t prevent a shidduch…)

Sim Shalom Org
July 20, 2009 6:54 am

To # 69: There is are underlying fallacies in your shrill response. I happen to be Australian born. I also happen to have sufficient marriage “counselling” to have the local non-Jewish women’s shelter refer cases, and request lectures for local case workers. Oh – and did I mention I’m a shlliach? I respectfully suggest that your are not yet ready for a shidduch for the following reason: A bochur that would be prepared to hike out there is not going to be THE bochur for your high-powered (if not self-centered [centred]) attitude. So if you are not a loser (and… Read more »

Cant believe what Im reading
July 20, 2009 6:49 am

I cannot believe how you people are just turning this whole situation into a ”comedy show” . . its just unreal, how people are making ‘small’ the whole current shidduch issue. . because thats just what it is to hundreds of us. . an absolutely major issue; to sit here and read, young guys/girls totally mocking and reducing it all to one big joke, is totally not on. . and COL should not be printing it. Its a sensitive issue and being that many of us find it far from funny, infact , anything but . . people should reflect… Read more »

to #74
July 20, 2009 6:42 am

I’m engaged to a size 12 and she is the nicest and most beautiful girl I ever met! Yes, there is hope!!

I must recommend though that it is very important for you to dress well and look your best. Size to me didn’t matter, but a girl who took care of her looks did.

I'm a size 12. ANYONE WANT ME?
July 20, 2009 5:45 am
To #59
July 20, 2009 5:42 am

You tricked me…I thought you were #31. For now I can only date one at a time…confusing as is.

However, I can lock you in just in case #31 does not work out…ohh, that’s the point of the article…

PS Size 0? Is that possible?

Combined Crisis
July 20, 2009 5:31 am

It’s the focus on looks (why is “height” basic information?!! – #25 And don’t bochurim know that weight fluctuates?! – I went from a size 10 to a size 6 shortly after I got married, whereas a size 0 I know went up to 12 after having a baby) It’s the lack of shadchonim who care (the shadchan in my shidduch was just a figurehead, for $1000, while the REAL shadchonim were friends/siblings) It’s the lack of dating information (that’s why you need, absolutely NEED a mashpia!) It’s the parents (why do you turn down good shidduchim over narishkeiten, status,… Read more »

I'm 59...to #31:
July 20, 2009 5:16 am

It’s ok. Actually you can take him. I’m not a size 2, I’m a 0..

July 20, 2009 4:36 am

Anyone living in australia that wants to date americans needs to be in the states. If you live in australia and want to stay in australia then date auzzies! PERIOD. No guy should be spending $1900 to meet a potential shidduch! Its ludicrous to even suggest so. The same is rue with israelis. those that are looking for americans need to find themselves in the US/Canada or fuggetaboutit!!

To #37 Sim Shalom Org
July 19, 2009 11:25 pm

What you say is horrible. Shame on you. LOSERS? The REBBE sent my family specifically on SHLICHUS to Australia if you would like to know!!! But of course, because CH is ‘the place to be’ I came… and I was NOT neccessarily welcomed… because people have to take the time to be interested in you…. Besides the fact that boys don’t want to marry a girl from Australia because they don’t want to move there (of course it’s fine for the girl to have to move the thousands of miles like many of my friends…) So I’m now back in… Read more »

whos responsibility is it?
July 19, 2009 6:51 pm

While your parents want to help you and make sure you find someone suitable, ultimately it is your responsibility to find your own boy/girl, not the shadchan, not your parents, its your responsibility. Go do something about it.

size 2
July 19, 2009 6:39 pm

the so called young generation of chassidik boys want chassidik girls, who look like models and are a size 2. They claim to want spiritual, but actually,they look basically only at the physical. That is the reality. If the guys would loosen up a bit, and let go of their unrealistic expectations of what a wife is, they would discover that there are alot of nice,sweet , intelligent and capable girls living in Crown Heights from every single continent. If they would stop to think about important issues like having children and raising them,having a chassidishe atmosphere in the house,etc.… Read more »

July 19, 2009 6:08 pm

Eternal Joy has it all, but you will get much more spiritually inspired and it will touch you much deeper by learning it inside.You will be able to put it into actual practice.

it's me, 31 again
July 19, 2009 5:52 pm

to 59, it’s ok you can have 31. I, too, am looking for a working boy, but I will be nice here. And to 47, I appreciate your suggestion too, but I wasn’t looking to start something up here. And are you sure you aren’t showing interest because I said I am attractive and a size 2? See, that’s exactly my point!! You get the slim girl and it’s all good? Is that what you think?

to number 56
July 19, 2009 5:48 pm

since when did lubavitch become “dating you tube”?

to # 60 and 59
July 19, 2009 5:10 pm

# 60
Hey…im trying to get a date…bug off!

To # 59
I’m typically a nice and friendly guy but # 60 is just rubbing me the wrong way…
working…Ok…good start. which shaddchan do you propose?

July 19, 2009 4:42 pm

What does Charlie Buttons’ have anything to do with what we are discussing? The articles that are being published are actually excellent because they provide great discussion forum. Hopefully something will be done tho- as a previous commenter wrote- Did the talk, now let’s do the walk!

Where is Charlie Buttons' article?
July 19, 2009 4:22 pm

It seems like everybody and nobody writes articles these days and gets them published. I am just waiting for Charlies article.

to #59
July 19, 2009 4:07 pm

wouldnt a profile on #53 be helpful right now? you will know to look further or drop it……….

to #53
July 19, 2009 4:00 pm

No, I am looking for a working boy. Maybe we can arrange to meet the same shadchan and perhaps give dating a try..

5 dates? maybe.
July 19, 2009 3:58 pm

#13 – 5 dates is not enough for everybody. Let’s not be closed minded here, in many situations the rebbe told the couple to take as long as they need. Ok we are not talking about months and months, but even A month to 6 weeks is acceptable, i think. Each person has to speak to his or her mashpia. May we continue to build yiddishe and chassidishe homes in klal yisroel.

Speaking of COL helping the Shidduch crisis
July 19, 2009 3:55 pm

Dont you wish the wonderful photographer at Lchaims and weddings can digitally place names on the bochurim. Im serious….Knowledge knowledge knowledge is what us parents need…to speed things up……..

whose taking achrayus ....
July 19, 2009 3:41 pm

i think that each person looking for a shidduch should have a profile, and a short video clip of themself. They can follow a standard questionaire….Parents need information….this will speed things up……..and one database for everyone Chabadnik……Cmon…maybe COL are willing to start this………………..

...is there a shadchan in the house??
July 19, 2009 3:37 pm

This is great ……..lets set it up here

As a Shadchan...
July 19, 2009 3:22 pm

As someone that has successfully made a number of shidduchim BH, this article misses the problem entirely. 1. The crisis is one of numbers. There are simply more girls than guys. 2. To be a “chasidisher” bochur is more difficult than to be a chasidisher girl. Thus there are more “good” girls than guys. 3. This is a major part of the equation: years back, girls after seminary and bochurim after shlichus convened in CH. There were many people that knew bochurim and girls and were able to come up with shidduchim. Today girls are spending their post seminary years… Read more »

# 31
July 19, 2009 2:27 pm

Don’t be too concerned keep your chin up.

Guess what…I’m a working boy looking to get married. Are you looking for shlichus?

Mom and Friend
July 19, 2009 2:20 pm

Firstly, the way I use Chabadmatch is that when a name comes up, I go there to find out more. I think that is probably the best use of the site. I wish more people would put up profiles.

Secondly, although I’m very much against it, one way of avoiding spending big bucks on travel when you can’t afford it is to maybe set up a video online meeting, just to see if its worth pursuing. I think if you’re in the same country, that is not valid, but from overseas it may work. The Litvish are doing it.

To #35
July 19, 2009 1:28 pm

Regardless of what other people on this forum may think, I think that you are absolutely right! Among Chabadniks, there should be one “central place” where people meet. That “place” should be Crown Heights, considering that it is the central hub of Lubavitch. (Technically speaking, most Bochrim that are looking for a Shidduch should be in or around CH anyway.) If you are a Bochur or girl and live in anywhere among the 6 continents of the world, and are looking for a Shidduch, you should fly into Crown heights to meet the Bochur/girl. If money is an issue for… Read more »

#35 is a genius
July 19, 2009 12:39 pm

wow! you are on the ball! end of the day, u must be invovled with a bad shadchan! but quit flying around the world for a shidduch! good luck

Did you see that?
July 19, 2009 12:37 pm

#47 what are you doing? !

My friends, we have often heard about the dangers of the internet. Well here you have it before your very eyes. An innocent young lady (#31) wonders out loud, and #47 jumps to offer her a “do it on your own” proposition…

#31, the system may have faults, but please don’t “do it on your own”? Would you like your daughter to be able to write, as you did, “from a good family”?

July 19, 2009 12:16 pm

What happened to the time when it was the boy who went to meet the girl ie travels the distance…

to #31
July 19, 2009 12:08 pm

if you want to do it on your own i know alot of bochurim who would be opened to someone intellegent like you who seems to have their head screwed on straight and knows what she wants. good luck with shidduchim if you want to email me i can maybe help set you up with some bochurim from the many that i know
If you are interested you can email [email protected]

July 19, 2009 11:50 am

Rabbi Hecht, thank you for writing.

However is this another article by some bored rabbi telling other people to do something, or are YOU going to do something about it?

Please keep us posted on your plans to put the dating course together. If you have no plans (which is what I suspect), you should not be jumping into the fray. We have enough people talking the talk. Are you ready to walk the walk?

boich sevoro
July 19, 2009 11:45 am

How can you write an article bashing the bochurim “within the system” when you yourself concede that this “may not be the norm”.

I assure you it is not the norm.

The big problem is our system is people like you who feel that just because they have a boich-sevoro and smicha, that their opinions somehow mean something.

July 19, 2009 11:40 am

I’m a guy and was on the shiduch market for 6 years (thank G-d no longer), and I very rarely met the people discussed in this article.

Why does every Tom, Dick and Harry who has a half-baked idea, get to publish it on this forum?

Been there, done that . ..
July 19, 2009 11:13 am

If only what you are saying would be true about Chabadmatch. . but nothing is further from the true reality; My daughters profile, in detail, may I add, has been on Chabad match now , for at least, SIX months. . and we have’nt recieved ANY feedback, whatsoever. . no response , no sign of life. . and whats more, when we attempt to look into a profile, ourselves, about a bochur, we totally hit a brick wall; They raised our hopes so much about thae successes of Chabadmatch, and how well it works, but unfortunately, both myself and a… Read more »

Eternal joy
July 19, 2009 11:12 am

does eternal joy have it all?

To #32 and #34
July 19, 2009 11:12 am

#32 – You are correct that when shopping, one compares. However, the reality is that in a shiduch you are not shopping, you are trying to find your one “basherte”. You mention the Rebbe – the Rebbe often quotes the sources that describe searching for a shidduch like someone looking for that which they have lost. It’s a specific “item”. Your objective is meerly to identify it. Don’t make it hard on yourself, or those you come in contact with. Focus on only one person at a time. If it’s good, you’re done! If it’s not – close the door… Read more »

July 19, 2009 10:35 am

I would like to tell every parent that the most important thing to do before your son or daughter goes out on their first date, is sit down with him or her and study together the whole Sefer with the Rebbe’s letters in the original on shiduchim and marriage. If you as a parent dont understand Hebrew and Yidish, you will be doing the biggest Mitzvah by finding someone close and respected by your children to sit down and learn word by word from inside the Sefer. Even if they tell you, they know it all, or even if they… Read more »

Brooklyn Shidduch Group Are you ok to publicize who are the main 10 woman involved?
July 19, 2009 9:48 am

It can be very helpful to us mothers out on shlichus or out of town…………or out of the loop……..or tired of impersonal shadchan suggestions……
Does it represent the full spectrum of chabad..- i.e. .FFB BT Run of the mill boys and girls- or older-cases??
Thanks alot

i feel sorry for #34..poor research...
July 19, 2009 9:38 am

#34 you are certainly not getting the right info….dont go untill you have all the facts straight….whoever is doing your research needs to be alot more clear and thorough…
there are questionaires out there thatt can help screen details that may surface stuff that you didnt have to shlep out for………..

Sim Shalom Org
July 19, 2009 9:19 am

To # 34:
The parents in Australia (with a giirl to marry) should get her over here.
There is such a shortage on bochurim , you should not need to travel overseas.
It is obviously not “min hashomayim” if they can’t even send their daughter to the place where it is happening.
Let some other loser travel to these losers..

shadchan crises
July 19, 2009 8:44 am

there is a shadchan crises not a shiduch crises

I Don't Get It
July 19, 2009 7:54 am

I am a bochur, learning in 770, in the “parsha”. My parents are on shlichus and ke”h have many mouths to feed, as such, they can’t help me very much financially. A shadchan proposed a name from Austrailia – it sounds promising, but the ticket will cost a small fortune. Another name came up from Israel – also sounds good. Is there anything “wrong” in booking a ticket that allows for both meetings? I couldn’t afford to book to seperate round trip tickets to Austrailia and then Israel!! Likewise, if I am already in Austrailia, should I not ask the… Read more »

Post Sem
July 19, 2009 7:32 am

I was in seminary two years ago and they taught us little to nothing about dating. The teacher mostly focused on our tznius and shaitels. In the meantime, my friend in another seminary told me this same teacher discussed dating and marriage very openly and properly. I wish my seminary had taught us more, and I think it would be a very good idea for the seminaries and yeshivas to incorporate it into the curriculum.

dont bother with chabadmatch
July 19, 2009 6:40 am
compare shopping
July 19, 2009 6:18 am

if when being a bochur or single girl one can not compare so when should they do so. Comparing gives a person a sense of confidence in their final choice. It gives a person a realistic picture of what there is to choose from.

Does anyone buy a car by just looking at one car??? or a house by looking at one house. People are crazy and have confused ideas of everything, that’s all. We takeh need the Rebbe back with us to set us all straight — ad mosai

from a post sem girl
July 19, 2009 6:03 am

I was just in sem. They did teach a course on dating, but of course, they only decided to do so at the end of the year, therefore rushing it. We didn’t learn as much as we’d have wanted to. I agree with the the suggestion that classes should be set up. While the girls learn some tips, we don’t know as much as we should. I feel bad for boys, who are not taught how to go about dating. They, too, need to learn the correct approach. I am fairly attractive, a size 2, from a good family, and… Read more »

July 19, 2009 5:46 am

Maybe I am old…I dont think so (earlyn 40s) but that was very well said – and was the norm in my day as well. In fact you could have been my wife, posting with such accuracy. And we were all pretty ‘cool’ and ‘with it’ in those days. So somewhere down the line someone is missing a trick,…

The System Aint Broke
July 19, 2009 5:45 am

It is the people who are.

Unfortunately, this article reflects a new trend with very shallow values. These problems continue into marriage and chinuch of Children. Marriage is tachlis, not a fulfillment of some Hollywood version of bliss.

If the bochur/girl approach meeting on a shidduch with tachlis and higher goals in mind, this doesn’t happen.

So lets get back to basics.

Brooklyn Shidduch Group! ([email protected])
July 19, 2009 5:08 am

Negativity won’t help. But WE can. One piece of the solution is participating in our group which meets 1-2x per month. Women present profiles of singles ANONYMOUSLY, which are then distributed amongst the group. We make contacts, follow up later. It is MUCH easier to get info on someone this way.This is a people-to-people effort with a VIRAL aspect (healthy viral, that is). We have been meeting for over one year. Many dates and engagements have happened. We also address ruchniusdik and practical issues. We’re available to help other groups start, too. Please contact us ! Our next meeting is… Read more »

to #14
July 19, 2009 2:01 am

the Rebbe spoke about having a Mashpia – correct. but just check pirkei avos – it speaks about it there too 😉

Sim Shalom Org
July 19, 2009 2:00 am

OPtions Option.
Bathroom tiles here we come.
Focus on one at a time – otherwise you aren’t “looking”. You are just “glancing”. Maybe like looking at icons on the screen.

Mothers Against Shidduch Crisis-WHAT ARE WE ALL WAITING FOR
July 19, 2009 12:50 am

On behalf of parents who are doing their Hishtadlus and still having a very hard time…. Thank you Rabbi Hecht for your openness, for bringing this vital topic, in a very difficult time, to the open. Very excellent points have been made in the comments. I would like to suggest as follows: Lets all –parents of the run of the mill girls and bochurim that are ready to date- get on the band wagon and join Chabad Match. Its run professionally. B”H Lubavitch has grown so big that my daughter doesn’t even know girls her age in our own city,… Read more »

to #21
July 18, 2009 7:14 pm

No, the other options are not so officially set up yet. Also the bochur involved should not know that there are other possibilities. It is O.K. if the parent responds by asking “are there other options if this does not work out” not that it has to be this way. I am just saying you can’t blame a parent for wanting to have other options before the son travels.

post sem
July 18, 2009 7:06 pm

the system is definetly in need of some help but as a girl who was just in seminary this year we had a very knowledgable mrs shusterman come speak to us and knock some sense into our heads and it was very enlightening, maybe it would help for someone to speak to the bochurim??

This is not the norm
July 18, 2009 7:00 pm

Please don’t post every person’s thought’s I know many Buchrim today and they say that this is a nonesence

to # 6#18
July 18, 2009 6:13 pm

so what do you say to the other 2 potential girls after the 1st one you date is your bashert!!! And what if they are all friends, hey I’m dating Moshe Shmo, oh you too….

July 18, 2009 6:06 pm

Thanks for being a mentch and posting you name. I agree one hundred percent

July 18, 2009 5:52 pm

there are articles on how to date.

no. 6
July 18, 2009 5:41 pm

Yes, I wanted to say the same as poster no. 6. The bochur hopes he won’t need a second option. Nowadays many shidduchim do not happen with your first one you dated so you gotta be practical. If the bochur is going to travel esp. if it is far , it is o.k. to say no I won’t travel unless there are a few options. I don’t think this has to have any influence while he is going out with the first one. Besuros Tovos I wish everyone HAD to be on one list with alittle of what he/she is… Read more »

the good old fashioned way
July 18, 2009 5:27 pm

#12 said it exactly right

A Shadchun Speaking
July 18, 2009 5:27 pm

The article is excellent. #4 and #5 are right on target. I’ve been involved in many shidduchim- both those that worked out and those that didn’t. We have incorporated too much from the world at large and don’t know how to stay focused on our goal (or perhaps even knowing what our goal is) – finding a partner in life and establishing bayis ne’eman beYisroel. # 13 delineates it quite succinctly.

This article passes the buck too quickly
July 18, 2009 5:15 pm

The shidduch crisis goes way beyond this article to the extent that it is almost a mockery of the situation to post such an article.

The system has to be reexamined from schooling and priorities and not just one bochur who wanted to date a few girls…

SOLUTION to all such problems
July 18, 2009 5:08 pm

Every bochur/girl must have a married mashpia! This will absolutely make all the difference. Classes don’t sound very practical. The Rebbe said to have a mashpia. The shiduch parsha is one time in life when this is not only recommended but absolutely crucial. And I mean crucial.

The Good old fashioned Chassidic Way
July 18, 2009 4:51 pm

The first date was all about seeing the other person and deciding wether to continue dating or not. The second date was more of the same but getting to know the other person hearing about their interests, family etc. If all went well the third date was a bit more serious where discussions about Shlichus, Kollel, employment, Chinuch Habbonim was discussed. The fourth was more of the same but if no feelings for each other was developed by then it was off. The fifth date was basically the deciding one with proposing or leaving it to the next date. Todays… Read more »

The fact is - IT WORKS!
July 18, 2009 4:27 pm

However much people would like to criticize the dating system (or the people withing the system), Kein Ayin Horah many Bochrim and Girls are getting engaged, and MORE THAN EVER!!!

Most of those people who complain about the Shidduch system end up finding their match through the very same system. It is just very frustrating UNTIL one finds their match, so a good way of venting their frustration is to blame the system/bochrim/girls/shadchonim etc…

Thanks for speaking out
July 18, 2009 4:10 pm

Excellent points, Your solution is very necessary and I hope despite your busy shlichus obligations you will be able to spearhead a campaign for these classes to happen. Much hatzlocha!

nothing new under the sun
July 18, 2009 4:01 pm

this is not a new thing for boys traveling to meet a girl out of ny. In the outside world this is the norm, too. Or, the option is for the girls dad to pay for the boy to come….especially if its the girl who might refuse additional dates.

Sim Shalom Org.
July 18, 2009 3:57 pm

DATING! The word reeks of goyishe values. Feh! GOING OUT – maybe. MEETING – That’s what it’s all about. SHIDDUCHIM BASICs (101): Any “ballpark” shidduch suggestion needs to be investigated (researched before meeting, for sure) and rejected ONLY if there is substantial (SUBSTANTIAL) reason. Who do you think sent this idea into this world? Any suggestion comes from the Eibishter, don’t fool around with it. As one local Rov-Mashppia says: “What? Are you buying bathroom tiles that you keep on the search? You reject this one because you think you can do better?” If after meeting 3 times there is… Read more »

Poor article
July 18, 2009 3:32 pm

Aricle deals with extremes

Sloppy and not respectful to bocurim

July 18, 2009 3:25 pm

BULL ……. the system IS messed up!

multiple dates
July 18, 2009 3:20 pm

I know this seems a little new to some of you, but the concept of travelling to meet a few dates is not a new idea. It only makes sense (especially with how shadchanim these days suggest dates -not knowing either side and just plucking names from a list-), that if someone is going to make a trip which he cannot do every other week, and for some reason the person he was set up with does not work out, that he has other options while he has made this long trip. (It goes without saying that all of this… Read more »

with a son who's looking for his bashert
July 18, 2009 2:50 pm

How about the guys with massive egos who are looking for a girl who’s a size zero, with a face to stop traffic & a Daddy who has a very healthy bank balance?

What about the girls who are looking for a professional, rich, & handsome “orphan”, or at least one who isn’t tied to mama’s apron?

Both the bochurim & the girls are totally unrealistic. If you’re chronologically old enough to get married, you need to grow up & get your priorities right. And speed/multiple dating isn’t the way to go, either!

Single Bochur
July 18, 2009 12:59 pm

I find it hard to believe that after talking with one guy who dates in such a manner, you go and write an entire article based on this one guy! You even write yourself “although maybe not the norm “, so why continue to rant at the “Bochurim” who date in such a manner? I fully agree that there should be some sort of system in place that gives some insight as to how to date, and how to act on a date etc.., but more importantly there should be more guidance to the daters as to what to expect… Read more »

July 18, 2009 11:10 am

very profound article, thanks for posting

i was under the impression that girls, in seminary, are briefed on the basics and how to approach a date whereas the boys are not….

also many bochurim are using the principles of other wordly things by which to judge their dating experience rather than the way it is set out in the words of our Rebbeim, this is very unfortunate and can lead to a bochur looking at his date and wishing her to be a movie star instead of a person he will build a chssidisher family with.

Re: having at least 3 lined up
July 18, 2009 10:40 am

I believe this refers to the 2% of the dating boys – by that I mean the 2% who acctually will travel for a date!

chilled out
July 18, 2009 4:37 am

i’m sorry but this ”bochur” has got to get his schmutz together…..
no one mature enough and serious enough about a shidduch, dates this way….. im all for the ”dating course” but taking superficial,picky,arrogant older guys as an example of the dating scene is utter rubbish.