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Thursday, 14 Kislev, 5780
  |  December 12, 2019

We Aren’t Perfect. Neither Are You

From the COLlive inbox: A bochur overhearing a conversation of his sister with her friends infuriated him about double standards. Full Story

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Partially agree
Guest
Partially agree

I’m a bochur with Instagram and I was considered Chasidish by the Shadchonim

And why do bochurim have lower standards than we do?
Guest
And why do bochurim have lower standards than we do?

Try finding a guy who doesn’t watch movies with forbidden content. Constantly being told I am unrealistic to ask for that when I don’t watch movies and it’s a lot less serious for a girl. Why is a guy who watches movies chassidish now? Forget smartphones and instagram, what about basic halachic standards of what guys are supposed to see?
Guys, you can do better. Please get your act together.

Ahhhh
Guest
Ahhhh

First world problems right here.

I remember the good old days when this was all I had to worry about.

Why is this a article
Guest
Why is this a article

Nothing with nothing

be truthful to yourself
Guest
be truthful to yourself

and when a bochur who parades around in a white shirt, black pants, considers himself a top bochur in lubavitch, and meanwhile has a fake instagram account that he uses to follow many different girls and message them. now that is called two faced. it’s ok to be chassidish and have instagram. it’s NOT ok to be called chassidish and have a fake instagram account to use to follow girls and message them. walk the walk and talk the talk.

Guys are diff than girls.
Guest
Guys are diff than girls.

Period.
V’dal

Depends who you talk to...
Guest
Depends who you talk to...

That might be the conversation your sister had, though many girls don’t feel the same way.
Im not trying to justify what your sister said… I’m only trying to make you aware of the fact that most girls don’t think that way. I would never bring that up in such a conversation I would have with my friends.

Finally
Guest
Finally

Well done

The answer is pretty obvious...
Guest
The answer is pretty obvious...

Whats expected of girls is different than guys. Men have yetzer haras 5x stronger than girls. Get with the program.

Miami bochur
Guest
Miami bochur

Talk for yourself

BTW what’s your username?

While this is true
Guest
While this is true

You can expand this to so many things A very chassidish girl can be into fitness, fashion, art, designing, food, dance etc etc and it is not necessarily a contradiction to her chassidishkeit while with a bochur they are expected to be in yeshiva and if they are into any of the above their chassidishkeit is questioned. Whether it falls into the category of bittul Torah for a man or whether it is less of a diversion from her avoidas Hashem for a woman (and is a mere channel of it) depends on the specific situation Maybe your sisters should… Read more »

Good point if this was addressed to males and females with double standards
Guest
Good point if this was addressed to males and females with double standards

If certain girls saying something hypocritical makes you think you have to address all girls on it than it sounds as if you have issues with girls. Most people both males and females would look for someone on their level and even though those girls with double standards are wrong there are also bochurim out there with double standards.

Thank you!
Guest
Thank you!

Well said, straight to the point. I just think bochreim make more of a statement by putting on a pair of jeans then girls wearing a shorter skirt. I don’t totally get it…

From a girls perspective
Guest
From a girls perspective

We are not perfect and neither are you so please bochurim set the same standards. I’ve witnessed this go both ways where boys and girls expect more than they are or what is realistic from the person they are dating.

interesting
Guest
interesting

There should be different standards of chassidish for bochurim and girls. If you see a girl sitting in 770 and learning all day, that is not the dorm, and most people would call it ‘farchnyokt’ rather than chassidish. On the other hand if a bochur would be sitting in 770 and learning all day, he would be called either a regular bochur or chassidish. It is possible to have instagram and be chassidish, though it’s harder, and it’s way harder if you are a bochur. We have different roles in life, thus we have different standards.

Incorrect
Guest
Incorrect

Boys are different than girls, they act, react, think and process different than girls, and being the leader of the house the one to”set the standard” (not to c”v negate anything from the women’s sacred task) yes boys should be held to a higher standard
A bochur
P.s. all this has nothing to do with the genuine futility and utter disaster that comes out of social media for EVERYONE

The Title "Bochur"
Guest
The Title "Bochur"

It has and always will be the roll of the man to learn and involve himself in Torah at all times.. The only Halachik exception to this is in order to provide for one’s family. It hasn’t been the Minhag in Lubavitch, however, the world over men sit and learn for many more years after marriage, sometimes never leaving Kolel. To expect this from all, may be unrealistic. To negate it’s truth is simply against Halcha. The roll of the man is to lead a Torah life and anything that comes in the way shouldn’t exist. (I’m not claiming to… Read more »

totally off
Guest
totally off

#1 boys and girls can do the same thing but it’s worse when a boy does it – yes, there are differences. Just like it’s different if a boy doesn’t learn all day or when a girl doesn’t. Yes, it’s worse for a boy to have instagram but ok for a girl
#2 it’s not ok for a girl to be tznius and is not forgiven.

Kol Kvuda Bas Melech Pnima
Guest
Kol Kvuda Bas Melech Pnima

I watched movies from time to time. Dated a girl who didn’t and who would rather her husband not. We’re married and I haven’t watched a movie since. My point? If a girl is the real deal then she can raise her husband to a higher level. I’d even say – THAT is the true power of a woman.

Bochur...
Guest
Bochur...

Are you asking to be treated like a girl ?
Man up
Ignore what those girls are saying
And set a standard for yourself that has to do with your personal truth not to do with who is a boy and who is a girl

Well
Guest
Well

I have to say that most times it’s the girls being put down for this and that and the one time that the boys feel like they’re being put down. I see a lot of chovenism in lubavitch. And it’s NOT chassidish. I stand by the REAL Lubavitch. The Rebbe’s Lubavitch. The one that respects women deeply and doesn’t think it’s cool or funny to make jokes about women or to event belittle a woman even slightly. I try to follow chassidishe hanhagos and standards but this really bothers me and it’s immature and sometimes disgusting.

how is this a valid concern
Guest
how is this a valid concern

gornisht mit gornisht

A few comments...
Guest
A few comments...

1. A colon is only used at the end of a complete sentence.
2. You should definitely proofread.
3. Nobody claims that having Instagram automatically makes you not Chassidish. I think it really depends on what it is that you are up to.
4. Why are you eavesdropping?
5. Nobody cares if you are perfect.
6. If a girl is very chassidish, maybe she can have higher standards. She probably does not, in fact, expect you to be more chassidish than she is herself.

Shame!
Guest
Shame!

You’re a bochur, a tomim, and don’t know that what is expected from you? Bochurim shouldn’t be wasting time from learning. This does not apply to women. Bochurim have to be more careful with what they see and read than women. You don’t think it’s worse for a bochur to lay on a beach than for a girl? Instagram and Facebook isn’t good for anyone, but you can’t compare the difference of a bochur on the internet, to a girl in the internet. Shame on you if you don’t think so.

To No. 5
Guest
To No. 5

I’m not quite sure which bochurim you know, but 99% of the ones with hats and jackets and white shirts don’t have fake Instagram accounts for following girls.
– A real live bochur.

Ps, come says hi to one of us, we don’t bite. We’re actually normal people.

to #20
Guest
to #20

well said

Still around.
Guest
Still around.

Good to know there are girls still around interested in marrying very chassidisher bochurim. I thought there are a few bochurim who are chassidish but they won’t have a chance with cool Chabad lite girls. Guess I’m wrong boruch HaShem! Lee it up anonymous bochurs sister and your friends! Marrying chassidish pays off!

Since when
Guest
Since when

Does your sister make the definitions of chassidish?

Don’t be so concerned what people do and be a pnimi, strive for the truth. It’s better for you. Q

You are only going to marry one girl
Guest
You are only going to marry one girl

Stop worrying about what everyone has to say

Very true
Guest
Very true

I hear the indignation, & he is 100% right to feel this way.

The Jewish People
Guest
The Jewish People

Let me see here …

I am not Chassidish. I am Frum.

As a matter of fact, I am Special and I am better …

Simply answered
Guest
Simply answered

Listen up: having Instagram for a girl and having Instagram for a bochur are two very different things.
A Lubavitcher girl and bochur have different feelings, taavos and tendencies. So for a girl to have an Instagram account can simply mean a way to communicate with old camp friends or whatever. For a bochur, it could mean so much more…
I hope the point is clear..

Because
Guest
Because

If girls look at inappropriately dressed women or men on instagram it’s not a problem for them but for boys that is a big problem

Big difference
Guest
Big difference

Like already said but I will say again:
The Taavus of a boy are a lot stronger then that of a girl and the severity of a boy seeing certain things is a lot worse then if a girls see it and the damage it could cause to yourself beruchnius is a lot worse. Although it forsure isn’t a good thing beruchnius for a girls to hang out on Facebook and Instagram but point is for boys is a lot worse.

Which one is worse?
Guest
Which one is worse?

A guy with low standards is very common and at the end of the day he is only truely harming himself (or not) a girl with low standards is setting a low standard for her home (all the children) she is not only effecting herself she is setting the atmosphere of her home, men are the breadwinners woman are the “akers habayis” and despite common misconception girls are not immune to all the shmutz on the internet and pritzus out there. At the end of the day all this is relative one person’s shmutz is someone else’s parev, everyone at… Read more »

Dear 19
Guest
Dear 19

You took a massive risk. The fact that you would watch a movie means you have one kind of understanding and you have that right, however the fact that she didn’t means she had a different basis and changing yourself for someone else isn’t true change you may never watch a movie again but you didn’t have what she had for this standard (she didn’t choose it to accommodate somone else) a bird can’t marry a fish, a marriage with differences of such degree is a recipe for disaster I wish you luck and perhapes I inspire you to make… Read more »

@16
Guest
@16

Sorry you are wrong. GIRLS SET STANDARDS NOT GUYS woman are the foundation of every home #JewishBasics

re the clothes
Guest
re the clothes

its not true what he says that girls are forgiven for unsnius clothes ‘coz yetzer hara.’ There are very clear guidelines what has to be covered by all opinions and she is judged accordingly…..much more than boys! Coz with girls its mamash halacha whereas with boys its just chassidishkeit.

Agreed, but in a Different Area
Guest
Agreed, but in a Different Area

Never heard pf such a situation but sad if true. I’m writing because there’s a different type of double standard (in some cases sadly encouraged by Shadchanim): If a boy says no to a shidduch they are grilled and demand a concrete and pointed reason as to why they turned down such a great girl. When one is given it’s dismissed and the boy’s feelings on the shidduch are made inconsequential; you don’t know what’s good for you. However if a girl says no, the boy is relegated to accept it without question. If the boy dares asks why he… Read more »

Thanks col
Guest
Thanks col

For publising this incisive, clear and long overdue point.
Finally, a voice of reason.

Stop equalizing.
Guest
Stop equalizing.

Guys have higher levels of chassidishkait just because they can truly live with them while girls are more shallow in that sense, stop complaining, genders are different.

To the shulchan auruch comment
Guest
To the shulchan auruch comment

That is totally not true. It says it in gemera… Also by the way a Jew is allowed to publicize a naise as seen by channkah. That is why us have Instagram. If anything it makes me and u more chassisdish.the pritzuz doesn’t effect when you have a shliach attitude.

To number 1
Guest
To number 1

I was also consider chassdish by the shadchan but thats cuz she didn’t know what I was doing on Instagram. Instagram destorys families! Do not harm yourself. SAVE YOURSELF AND DO YOUTSELF A FAVOR!

Bochrim, cast away thy demons!
Guest
Bochrim, cast away thy demons!

Be careful when you cast out your demons that you don’t throw away the best of yourself.

@37
Guest
@37

Yes that’s why you shouldn’t have instagram

To 39
Guest
To 39

I disagree. My daughter was told by the shadchan that he was going to propose and we should prepare a vort. They went out on a 5 hour date and….. nothing. And he just dropped her, the next day the Shadchan called to say it was over. No reason, we couldn’t find out a thing, and the shadchan was clueless as well. BH she is well married and has a beautiful family. It took the boy years to get married but when he did my daughter said why would he go out with me? We are nothing alike! Both parties… Read more »

When I was dating...
Guest
When I was dating...

“Back in the day” before instagram was so popular (not that long ago, but anyways) Facebook was the coolest social media. I always said I would never marry a guy with Facebook. If he has Facebook who knows what he’s doing with it? And what he’s looking at! And who he’s friends with! Surely a chassidish bochur doesn’t need Facebook! Another big no-no was sports. Which chassidish bochur wastes time with sports? Shouldn’t he be using that time to learn? Fast forward a few guys and this one boy comes up. He sounds amazing! Chassidish! Just what I’m looking for!… Read more »

Chassidish is a made up word with no definition
Guest
Chassidish is a made up word with no definition

Chassidishe bochur is a term with real definitions printed in seforim.

גארניט מיט גארנישט
Guest
גארניט מיט גארנישט

גערעדט און גערעדט און גארנישט געזאגט

To #2, I am a bochur
Guest
To #2, I am a bochur

That is definitely NOT a chassiddher bochur. I don’t know who you’ve been talking to but they have rediculously low standards and must be very ignorant.

To author of the article
Guest
To author of the article

Firstly, we all know what you were doing listening to your sister and her friends….
Secondly, to write this article you have to fully understand what the true meaning of a chassidhish bochur. In my opinion, and many mashpiim, chassidish isn’t a term used for boys who learn chitas and rambam and all that, that is hiskashrus. The meaning of chassidhish is learning the Rebbes Torah and taking ho’oros from it. You may be right that Instagram and smartphone doesn’t define a bochur, but don’t mix in the Snapchat with chassidish.

idiocy
Guest
idiocy

we should not be labeling who is more or who is less “chassidish” — this standard is very subjective and ambiguous. instead people should decide WHAT they want for themselves and search accordingly and specifically. The nonsense underlying the article itself is perhaps more problematic than the issue it attempts to address… may I suggest: the hypocrites — if there are any — are the older generation that has allowed institutions that feed off and perpetuate this kind of nonsense (e.g. “we are more chassidish than the other school”, etc.) although they know FULL WELL that such behavior would never… Read more »

Yiddshe Mameh
Guest
Yiddshe Mameh

Number 35 you said 100 correct

WHy do you even care
Guest
WHy do you even care

Do what you do be proud and you will
Get a shidduch
Mean people get married smart being get married
Obnoxious people get married
Kind people get married
People who think they are chassidish get married
Who cares focus on yourself not some stupid conversation ur sister and their friends had!

what is the focus for this generation?!
Guest
what is the focus for this generation?!

Forget the unimportant.. The main criteria is – what path did the Rebbe lay out for us. How do we get on that path and stay there.I believe the Rebbe spoke more about what we should be into, and then we would have no interest in other things.

honesty
Guest
honesty

Worry less about what you are titled, and more about who you actually are. What are your values, and how do you live your life? Honesty, kindness, generosity, faith in Hashem and Torah? What is important to YOU? If you do use instagram, how are you using it? Do you think you are being appropriate with it? Or are you feeling guilty? BTW, a little guilt is ok- it can serve as a catalyst for self-reflection. I don´t know if instagram per say is ok or not. But it is worth reflecting on your attitude towards social media, and how… Read more »

to # 51
Guest
to # 51

With Ruchnius, competition is good! If one feels that his/her Ruchniusdik needs are not being met, with Rabbonim’s approval, one may start a new school-magazine etc. And my suspicion would be that the Rebbe would approve.

To #23
Guest
To #23

You are mistaken about the use of a colon. Look it up in the Chicago Manual of Style, AP Style, Grammar Girl, etc.

Yes, some need to do a bit more proofreading before posting, but it is not a sin to post something with typos in it. A blog is not the SATs!

Shame
Guest
Shame

No one should overhear private conversations moreover react or take action thereupon

Interesting
Guest
Interesting

# completely misguided bachur
# Clueless

It depends
Guest
It depends

As a Chassidish girl, I personally do not care if my future Chosson has an instagram. What I DO care about is what he’s using his Instagram for. Is he looking at innapropriate content? Is he talking to girls? If he is not doing those things and rather is using it to connect with fellow MALE friends, then go ahead and have Instagram. He can expect the same of me.

How low we stooped..
Guest
How low we stooped..

its amazing how low we stooped. bochurim should ONLY be involved in torah and avodah.

Girls are ALREADY holier, (according to chasidus) therefore less is demanded, anyway their instagram account usually will only be limited to frum fashion and kosher recipes.

while for boys it might be worse r”l.

Ummmm
Guest
Ummmm

The same could be said about boys! Sorry, I’m a girl and I’m not like your sister!! Don’t say girls, it couldd be anyone.

Berel
Guest
Berel

Girls for the most part don’t learn Torah. Their adolescent lives for the most part consists in social interactions, family responsibilities with a side of school work. They should not be allowed Instagram but desiring it doesn’t say much about them more than they have a lot of free space in their lives.

A tomim is involved in learning Torah and outreach. A social media presence is a most cases a clear designation that he’s missing the point.

Regarding Instagram
Guest
Regarding Instagram

Just pointing out that there is no such thing as having Instagram without seeing inappropriate content. Don’t be in denial. There are ads and also “suggested content” which you cannot control. It is honorable to try to “avoid” all the pritzus, but it is no doubt there. And you will without a doubt see it. So to those who say “it depends how the bochur is using Instagram” please don’t fool yourself. There’s a 100% chance he will see something inappropriate, intentionally or not.
-instagram user

Really now...
Guest
Really now...

So tired of hearing boys have more taavos, so do girls, they just hide it or it manifests differently…seriously okay? If boys can’t have Instagram than girls can’t either. Girls can be unfaithful too or feel unsatisfired too we are all the same humasn in our taavos we just go about it differently because men are more dominant naturally and woman are more submissive so it appears that way. So if boys can’t have Instagram bec it’s inappropriate than neither can girls.

To #51 I don't know which mashpi'im you heard that from...
Guest
To #51 I don't know which mashpi'im you heard that from...

Hiskashrus, as defined by the REBBE is: 1) Learning his Torah (teachings) 2) Fulfilling his horoas.
Definition of a chassidisher bochur: 1) mikvah 2) beard 3) Bendel 4) payos 5) I don’t remember.
But there were 5 things the Rebbe told a bochur to do and then ‘you will be a chassidisher bochur”. 4 of which I just listed.

Chasdish but with it
Guest
Chasdish but with it

Unfortunately most girls only care about the superficial things when it comes to the standards they have for the boys they are dating

bochur
Guest
bochur

bh

A bochur is supposed to be learning and davening, when does he even have time for narishkieten like facebook and instigram. it has nothing to do with chassidishkiet, it’s basics. if you do not understand the difference between bochurim and girls, you dont need to strengthen your chassidishkiet, rather return to basic Judaism.

Okay bochur
Guest
Okay bochur

I got you but that’s the way Those girls are . And a lecture won’t change them. So find a girl that doesn’t have that double standards. Everyone remember on thing: you’re only looking for one person.There is someone for everyone. But we just need more shadchanim.

To numbers 52 ,67, and 25.
Guest
To numbers 52 ,67, and 25.

Best comments on this article!
Thank you for taking time to post and perhaps effect a reader.

Signed,
– a bochur with a smartphone (with a filter) on col who is gonna finish signing this comment and go learn some of HASHEMs chochmah.

P.S. Chovevei Torah

To numbers 52 ,67, and 25.
Guest
To numbers 52 ,67, and 25.

Best comments on this article!
Thank you for taking time to post and perhaps effect a reader.

Signed,
– a bochur with a smartphone (with a filter) on col who is gonna finish signing this comment and go learn some of HASHEMs chochmah.

P.S. Chovevei Torah

To #25
Guest
To #25

If anyone comes and asks me if I have instagram and follow girls I will absolutely will bite.

Am haaratzim- you’ve been warned.

Abish K.
Guest
Abish K.

The very reason why the issue is apparent seems to suggest that those who knew it can’t fear it this pretending it can’t exist further accelerates suspicion that those who do not understand nor could even comprehend the issue which is in plain sight without me suspected of knowing that those who cannot think or right whichever way could I be suspected of such things which cannot be apparent.

speak for yourself
Guest
speak for yourself

girls and boys are different

@ #67
Guest
@ #67

please bring sources thanks

To #6
Guest
To #6

I see what you did there 😂😂

is it only me
Guest
is it only me

Am i the only who is a little bit disturbed that girls are sitting and discussing a bochur’s level of chassidishkeit?

Berel
Guest
Berel

@72

that is an extremely lucid comment, but have you ever stopped to consider that by eliminating the enlightening you risk illuminating the illusory. We all believe that enhancing that which is withheld very often or at least more often than not results in a different perspective with respect to the competing interests.

to #24
Guest
to #24

its great to lie on the beach
how can you say its ok for a girl and not a guy?

to 71**
Guest
to 71**

Are you in Shidduchim yet?
Asking for a friend,
-a Girl with A filter on her smartphone and also with Instagram

to #32
Guest
to #32

thats such a pathetic statement you made
by the way woman cheat more than man and these are one of the ways they do it

to #33 #34
Guest
to #33 #34

thats such baloney.
most of theses statements are pathetic

chassidish
Guest
chassidish

nowadays no 1 even knows what chassidish means
ahavas yisroel is not just the highest form and opitome of chassidish but in our times its especialy the main and only focus

A bochur (shliach) without instagram
Guest
A bochur (shliach) without instagram

I would marry a frum girl who has instagram. I wouldn’t marry a frum girl who has instagram and thinks it is ok for her but it wouldn’t be ok for me, I’m not a user of any social media (not even fake accounts 🙂 I never have been, but I am not oblivious as to what instagram and the like is, and if you believe that the content that is on instgram is damaging, than it is damaging regardless of gender. Pritzus is pritzus, full stop! Girls are not any safer (than guys) from what they read, see and… Read more »

to number 15
Guest
to number 15

I disagree. I think a girl sitting and learning in 770 is very beautiful, and I wish more girls would do it.
A bochur having instagram is definitely not a chassidish bochur. and honestly a girl who has instagram is not too chassidish either. I think we have to protect our kids as much as possible from outside influences and try to keep them in the daled amos of torah.

I love you all!
Guest
I love you all!

You guys and girls, readers and writers, editors and commentators, you are all PERFECT IN THE EYES OF OUR GOD and worthy of all the love in the world.

AM YISRAEL CHAI!!!!

This is such nonsense
Guest
This is such nonsense

I think you’re all crazy

#68 and to the writer
Guest
#68 and to the writer

If most girls are superficial than don’t marry a girl. And to the bochur you’re kinda doing the same thing… which is overhearing a conversation certain types of girls are having and deciding “ okay now that’s what all girls are sayin”… whatever, don’t take issue with all girls , sounds like you have issues with girls.

Whoever wrote this article is nuts
Guest
Whoever wrote this article is nuts

Boys and girls are different they do different things and have therefore you cant put them on the same level for most things if you do you should go join your local woman’s March for equality

Social media has no place outside of business promotion
Guest
Social media has no place outside of business promotion

I dont use social media and I dont encourage my teenage young adult children to. Time waster and useless

To #46
Guest
To #46

#39 ashtray anticipated your reply; read the end.

Both sides should be accountable. He was just putting it that there is an inbalance.

just one little point
Guest
just one little point

the shmiras einayim concern is not as strict for girls.
while of course, she sould shtel zich in hecher inyonim, but for a male to be on these sites it constitutes a greater problem.

Is the author a meshugene?!?!
Guest
Is the author a meshugene?!?!

Does he not understand that his sisters were referring to someone who is called “the top in lubavitch” — not just chasidishnis.
Does he not understand that his sister’s friends’ opinions are not representative of all girls?

He mamesh sounds like a shoteh!

Instgram
Guest
Instgram

No one should have instagram, no matter the gender

Girl with Instagram
Guest
Girl with Instagram

65 -AGREE 100% if you have instagram you know the deal 73 – yes it’s only you. I mean, I don’t know. But it is the most normal thing for a group of friends to discuss what they think is important for their future husband to have/be etc. I am a girl that has Instagram and no I would not want my future husband to have it because I see how much it messed up my thoughts and the things I hear and see just “on the way” from a post to the next all these sponsored ads you can’t… Read more »

ch is not normal
Guest
ch is not normal

stop being so judgemental it doesn’t mean cause you have Instagram your not chassidish

Yechi
Guest
Yechi

WE JUST AREN’T SAYING ENOUGH YECHI HAMELECH

To 66 (what's wrong for boys is wrong for girls)
Guest
To 66 (what's wrong for boys is wrong for girls)

B”H HOW CAN YOU COMPARE?! A BOY HAS AN *ISUR D’ORAYSA* TO LOOK AT GIRLS! IT’S NOT JUST PRITZUS AND TZNIUS (Which are also serious, just you can’t compare.) For a boy there are CLEAR GUIDELINES wrriten IN OUR HOLY TORAH (I.E. SHULCHAN ARUCH) . “OSUR L’HISTAKEL AL HOAROYOS” ETC. ETC. (look it up yoursleves.) Women stand all night watching men by the simchas beis hashoeiva. There’s nothing wrong with that. (There is the problem mentioned in pokeiach ivrim, about girls/women staring at men, but obviously cannot be compared WHATSOEVER.) A Jewish man or boy that has a smartphone (עאכו”כ… Read more »

How do they know of and discuss a particular bochur
Guest
How do they know of and discuss a particular bochur

That itself is completely inappropriate. Why do they know so much about him and why are they discussing him?
Disgrace!

Compatible
Guest
Compatible

If you want to marry someone, be honest. Don’t put on a show. If you have Instagram, fine. If you don’t ,fine. A couple has to communicate and trust each other. To me, I have Facebook and Instagram which I use to communicate with friends that i might not otherwise. It’s their preferred method of communication just like the whole Chand world uses WhatsApp instead of texting groups or telegram. I also use Google Hangouts to talk to people. And Skype. Whatsapp is a social media app. Bochrim can talk to girls on WhatsApp just as much as on Instagram.… Read more »

so true
Guest
so true

@5 did it say in the article that it was a fake account? no! you are the real problem. everyone always assumes stuff and this is what it leads to (angry col comments). lesson for life: dont talk about something if you don’t know the details

to number 71
Guest
to number 71

You are a tzaddik.
Whats your Dor Yesharim number please.
Asking for a friend.

The answer is simple.
Guest
The answer is simple.

Men and women do not have the same struggles with the internet. The sign of a chasidish guy is that he doesn’t put the challenge of a smartphone in front of his eyes. The biggest issue that women experiences on the web is time waiting but the temptations for far worse things are not as prevalent among women.

What does Chasidish mean???
Guest
What does Chasidish mean???

This entire article/debate is useless. All of the opinions throughout the comments, and in the article itself, are based on each person’s definition of the word Chasidish. Everyone has different standards, some people consider themselves chasidish if they are simply religious, while others would only consider people chaisdish if they go to mikva everyday and learn chitas and gimmel prokim. The point is that it’s a waste of time to argue and worry about who is chasidish and who isn’t. A chossid is a person that follows in the rebbes ways, there is no list of terms and conditions that… Read more »

@64
Guest
@64

“Girls don’t reallly learn Torah, it’s just a side” what?!? I’m a high school student and unfortunately that is really not the case!! Schoolwork is definitely a main part of our lives and we’re are told on a constant basis that it is. To say that you must be really ignorant and uninformed.
-a high school student

Who is everyone to label what 'chassidish' is?
Guest
Who is everyone to label what 'chassidish' is?
#47
Guest
#47

WHATS WRONG WITH SPORTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oyyyyyy
Guest
oyyyyyy

instagram is always goyish and inappropriate

Judgmental
Guest
Judgmental

Wow aren’t you guys judgmental
Can’t be easy to live up to other’s expectations
Every mode has good and bad
Can be used for helping to make life practable and bearable
On the other side can be used for evil
All is about choices
Talking about people between oneselves is an Issur DeOriso
Loshon HoRah
The Rebbe didn’t countenance chitter chat
It is ever so practicably harmful

must read
Guest
must read

i think that it is goyish for any GENDER. Instagram is full of shtus and unnecessary gashmies

Bichlal something else
Guest
Bichlal something else

Simple. Boys can’t have gram, girls can. Layla tov.

Smartphone and Instagram are not chassidish? If you're 18 maybe...
Guest
Smartphone and Instagram are not chassidish? If you're 18 maybe...

How old was the girl in the story? This is her opinion based on perception, and perception changes as you get older. Most 22-23 year old girls wouldn’t say no because he has a smart phone.
It is pretty immature.

It’s 2018! This is Lubavitch! We are who we are by utilizing the world for powers of good. By sharing candle lighting times on Facebook and Instagram stories and Snapchatting your programs and utilizing smartphones to share the Rebbe’s message to a broad audience.

If smartphones are a concern for chassidishkeit, ask why do they have it?

to #4
Guest
to #4

if someone is obviously bothered enough about something to write an article expressing his/her thoughts on a particular inyan, as long as the thoughts they’re expressing aren’t anti Torah you should at least acknowledge that to the writer (and probably to many readers) that inyan is quite important. nobody is saying you have to agree with them, but don’t belittle them and make them out to be empty-headed fools. that, #4 isn’t a very nice middah.
i have a feeling you wouldn’t like it much if comments came in expressing just how vacuous the readers found YOUR comment to be.

@25 and @84
Guest
@25 and @84

25: what kind of “real live bochur” who is proud to calm himself such and is provlaiming that he doesn’t have a fake account to talk to girls (which I don’t know of any normal guy who does…), turn around and say “come talk to us”?!?! That doesn’t seem very normal…. 84: what do you mean “unfortunately it’s not the case”?! Do you have something better to be doing? Youre right, #64 is ignorant to say what they said. Just because it isn’t mitzvah for a girl to be involved in the Torah “yomam volayla” or a mitzvah to learn… Read more »

a bochur with a smart phone
Guest
a bochur with a smart phone

well u know what y’all. i consider myself chassidish even with a smart phone.i disagree strongly to #112. boys are no different than girls. boys can have chabadstagram and i trust myself on it completely.

@111
Guest
@111

completely agree. instagram is not ok for anyone. a girl with instagram is NOT chassidish just as much as a boy.

To 81 and 103. (I'm not a tzaddik btw but Haha)
Guest
To 81 and 103. (I'm not a tzaddik btw but Haha)

I’m glad my actually serious comment made u smile. Or something like that. I don’t actually know what I did. But I’m interested in the shidduch offers.I mean, I think. I mean, Idk. I mean, this is COL, I mean, wow look at this public communication – is this pritzus? Wow …. Maybe we should ban col? * No JUST KIDDING col and instabook dont compare!!!* See what I did there? I called it instabook making myself sound more chassidish then I am, when really I know its called instaface. Or was it chatagram? Snapbook? K Wtvr. Anyways I’m falling… Read more »

Bochur with  instagram
Guest
Bochur with instagram

I have a smartphone with a filter which lets social media Unfortunately, due to my own personal faults I fell for the whole ‘Fake account’ thing it really got me screwed up with talking to girls. Fortunately, though I’m working thru the challenge and not giving in anymore. I do have a real account which doesn’t necessarily affect my chassidishkeit, but it’s mainly a big time waster. And yes, bochurim are expected more from than girls if you were wondering.

FACTCHECK
Guest
FACTCHECK

Isur aroiyes in the form of imagery applies to EVERYONE regardless of gender, it in itself is very wrong and asur for everyone, and in regard to the many associated isurim well we can argue back and forth who will stoop lower eventually and who has to be more careful of what on either side, but there is definitely not enough understanding and fair logic on this matter in our community and there is a massive bias that guys have to be held to a standard that girls either don’t have to be held to or afraid of as much… Read more »

What's the Rebbe's opinion
Guest
What's the Rebbe's opinion

B”H The Time has come to take down the curtain. Enough is enough! Ad Mosai? For too long we are portraying this fake picture of the Rebbe Melech Hamoshiach to the world, to our children, and most importantly to ourselves. Maybe people aren’t learning the Rebbe shlita’s sichos or letters anymore.. Maybe that’s why we’re all going hay-wire. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t hear: “The Rebbe embraced technology, the Rebbe would never speak against Lubavitchers having smartphones” Really?? Is the same Rebbe who spoke for years on end against going to the country? Who spoke fire against wall-to-wall… Read more »

I remember hearing
Guest
I remember hearing

about a teacher who told her students that you get five things from listening to the radio #1 Avoda Zara #2. Gilui Aroyois, #3. Shefichas Domim #4.and 5 is traffic and weather. It may be cute the way she said it, but it is sooo true. If you turn on the radio, it is very rare, not to be exposed in some way to at least one of those 3 cardinal sins. When one becomes sensitive to it, you can feel it. These things, including inappropriate images or videos on social media, take up space in our minds and does… Read more »

@99 WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Guest
@99 WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

The isur dearaisa is for WOMAN ASWELL woman are chayev in everything untill they are not (reasons being like shzman grama) NOT the other way around! Here’s if you don’t believe me…
Guardyoureyes.com:
“Women also have the mitzva of “קדושים תהיו” and “ולא יראו בך ערוות דבר ושב מאחרך” just like men”

case closed
Guest
case closed

I think those last 2 comments pretty much wrappedup this topic. Summary: For the Boys- no facebook or any internet/ social media either Unless has a strong filter and accountability (ALL activity reported to a mentor – get everaccountable app AT LEAST- everaccountable.com ) and is only being used to broadcast Chassidus (No! Israel stuff and Dennis Prager is NOT chassidus!) but not to chas vesholom peek or surf! (Hashem yishmoreinu from all the disgusting filth the the internet has such a stale stench of) And girls will ONLY use the internet a tiny little bit ONLY to serve Hashem… Read more »

tznius
Guest
tznius

I never heard of a girl with a short skirt being called chassidish. She wouldn’t be called frum in some circles.

Grateful We left
Guest
Grateful We left

Good old judgemental comments. I know many men with hats and jackets who are complete hypocrites and men who don’t who are solid fathers and husbands. Learn and support their families. A double standard? Yes. people have a smartphone for legitimate reasons.There are bigger aveiros than Instagram. Girls who are not so chassidish but quick to judge others are still single.

if you see a problem, its within you (yesod in chassidus)
Guest
if you see a problem, its within you (yesod in chassidus)

stop looking at other people. if you have instagram, you aren’t chassidish. period. having a smartphone (even with a filter) is bideved, as all rabbonim have paskened. who cares if the standards are different by yenem?

A bucher
Guest
A bucher

I’m writing this comment right now whilst hiding in a bathroom in my yeshiva
Why am I hiding in a bathroom?
Because smartphones are illegal in yeshivos
Why are they illegal in yeshivos and not seminaries?
Due to the above mentioned klal godol: “for a girl to watch inappropriate content, no matter how bad it is, it will never lead to שז״ל as opposed to boys – not only can it lead to such things but there’s no chance that it won’t”

לחיים

To number nineteen
Guest
To number nineteen

that is a dangerous message I watched movies married a top girl who didn’t. and although we get along and she is a wonderful women. it truly bothers and disappointing her, which always makes feel miserable and guilty. dont marry someone with the assumption you will change, its not fair to you both.

Girl with Instagram
Guest
Girl with Instagram

Yes it is different for boys and girls. I have Instagram and no I would not want my husband to have it. The reason I say this is because I am aware of the horrible things that are on there that come your way lkterally, you don’t even have to look for them. Explore page, ads, sponsored posts. And I can say it has messed up my thoughts and mind. It wastes my time. And I know of things I don’t care to know and I wish I didn’t, just because I am so exposed to them. There are alot… Read more »

To #86's reply to #15
Guest
To #86's reply to #15

i am not the type to comment on col, but i feel like this time it’s necessary. I agree with number 15 partially. 86 I agree with the other part. Basically, my opinion is that yes, there should be different standards – as it says shiva ponim letorah. At the same time, learning is beautiful – we all have a chelek elokah, with infinite potential and we have to show our true colors. In honor of yud shvat, we should all ker a velt, grow up and instead of talkign about chassidishkeit, start acting chassidishkeit!

Thank u for voicing this important topic
Guest
Thank u for voicing this important topic

It’s been a long time since I’ve seen this discused like this
It’s a true G’MuSa-diker* peice (*new addition to the 168 of the רר׳ק)
Thank you for bringing this vital detail often overlooked out to the public.
IYH the problem should be solved with the coming of moshiach now!

20 Year old single girl
Guest
20 Year old single girl

Yes, I agree that the ‘taavos’ may be stronger for men. Its still doesn’t justify for girls to have Instagram. Theres some pretty bad things on there ;(

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