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Monday, 16 Elul, 5779
  |  September 16, 2019

‘Tznius Police’ Caught Up With Me

From the COLlive inbox: I went to my friend's engagement party with happy feelings and then someone made me cry. Full Story

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Sounds deranged
Guest
Sounds deranged

If Hashem didn’t like you, he would not care whether you are appropriately attired or not.

Wow. That's terrible.
Guest
Wow. That's terrible.

Not condoning the untznius fashion out there, but really, this comment wasn’t along the lines of the Rebbe’s approach at all.
Before people rebuke others, please learn the halachos of “hochayach tochiach” and go from there.

Sorry but...
Guest
Sorry but...

Sorry your feelings were hurt, but you are making drama. There isn’t a coordinated tznius police. And if events took place exactly as you described, your tears should have been shed for the mentally off woman, as a sane woman wouldn’t behave like her. Not that she was wrong to feel that CH tznius standards should be high, it should be, but the way she conveyed it was off the wall, obviously.

Instead of wondering what's wrong with THIS genaration
Guest
Instead of wondering what's wrong with THIS genaration

Pity what is so wrong with some of the old generation
The lost generation is clearly the old and those unable to accept some new ideas and suffer from intolerance
Thank you for shining the light on a very sad subject

Amen!
Guest
Amen!

Good for you! Thank you for speaking up about this very important issue. The rebbe would be proud I think, for he welcomed anyone no matter where they were from or how they looked!

Meir
Guest
Meir

BS”D
not condoning a non proper dress style but unfortunately you are correct in how the wrong approach can only further marochek people
further unfortunate is the women who scolded you has worse issues than you and is a very unhappy person so just have Rochmonis for her and
Hatzhlacha Raba and may the next Vort you attend be your own

wow
Guest
wow

seems like someone finally put it into words. You can HELP a person change, not push them rudely with inciteful comments. It only gets them AWAY from yidishkeit. Was great point brought in thank u.

OK time out
Guest
OK time out

I DO NOT AGREE with the author when coming to a frum event and dressings untznius is not just her business, its like coming to a black tie event in shorts and saying thats my business. however, if I were her I’d punch this wako square in the mouth. That is the MOST horrible thing to say. I hope she asks michilah before yom Kippur.

you are so right
Guest
you are so right

If anything it will only cause more resistence and further resentment.It is not up to people to act like police but rather to accept all people for who they are with love.No you cannot force people to live up to your standards.You can be an example but this will never make someone adhere to someones’ idea of what is tznius.

Whoever that woman is...
Guest
Whoever that woman is...

who gave her the authority to go around giving such comments???? This is not the Rebbe’s way!!!!
This definitely does not come from Ahavas Yisroel!
She should be dismissed just like anyone else who would say something inappropriate.
Tznius is a beautiful part of Torah. Klolos are NOT!!!
Take your inspiration from the right people that represent the real Derech HaTorah!
Hatzlocho! May you have a beautiful happy life in every way!

Oy
Guest
Oy

When the messenger is not kind it makes it very difficult to separate the message from the messenger. When the Yidden would complain to Moshe Rabbeinu it says he would fall on his face. He would think what element of what they are saying is true. If your outfit was according to Halacha you have nothing to be concerned about. If there is room to improve, then there is room to improve. Sorry you had to have such a painful experience of being grabbed and yelled at. Interestingly enough, This weeks parsha contains the opening words to the very famous… Read more »

Back to basics for the self appointed  'messanger of G-d'!
Guest
Back to basics for the self appointed 'messanger of G-d'!

Its amazing, if you open a chumash you will see no mention of neck-lines and elbow covering requirements.
You will see ‘love your neighbor as yourself’!

I say to this self appointed false messenger of God: ‘check out your own soul for 120 years before chastising another’s form of dress’!

And from the point of view of psychology I think we all understand ‘hashem doesnt like you’ is code word for: ‘I have a terrible self-esteem and body image, and I am envious of someone who feels comfortable to dress as they feel fit’!!!

Good on you Sheina for being brave and being ‘you’!

BH
Guest
BH

When you have sprouted a pair of angel wings and you have absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with you, than and only than should you attempt to talk to another individual about their flaws. With the whole world targeting our People with such blatant hate, we need to band together and truly love one another. A Yid is a Yid no matter how he or she conduct their lives. Besides you catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

Scary!
Guest
Scary!

If indeed events were as described in the article, I’m shaking with fear. Are we some kind of deranged Christian fanaticalcult talking words like “G-d doesn’t love you”?!? What kind of speech is this for a Frum Yid. Perhaps it wasn’t as Tznius a dress as one would like; no problem – do not allow your son to go out with her… But what ever happened with the prohibition of not shaming a Yid?!

Just my thoughts
Guest
Just my thoughts

Boy the word she used are sharp! I wouldn’t have chosen them myself even though i am disgusted at the pathetic situation in our community. It has reached the level of major embarrassment. However sometimes ppl who feel threatened often don’t know how to react responsibly. Frankly i think for the few ppl who are still left with a bit of integrity the rest of the majority who stand out (it just takes one provocative woman to turn heads and stand out) have just taken over the block. And it feels very scary, because even our young daughters in the… Read more »

Tznius and what it truelly means
Guest
Tznius and what it truelly means

I am shocked at what happened and I am a very tznius girl. A. tznius is not only in your clothing but rather in your thought speech and action too. true it is important to dress modestly for self dignity and self respect purposes(asida from halachah of course) but screaming,embarrasing and physically catching someones hand is all the more not tznius not only that but it is counterproductive since even if someone needs to work on the way they dress public embarrassment not only will not achieve that but quite the opposite will cause resentment. B. It is strongly prohibited… Read more »

Just dress tznius!
Guest
Just dress tznius!

Dress the way you’re supposed to and move on in life left this event be a stepping stone to do the right thing instead of making a whole scene

Question
Guest
Question

Is the experience described in this article typical? In ohter words, how accuarate is it in represneting reality?

Keeping the positivity
Guest
Keeping the positivity

Beautifully written and so respectful! It’s great to see how even though you were so hurt by another lady’s comment, you didn’t put her down in the article. The more positivity and light in this world – the better!!

#4 and #5
Guest
#4 and #5

Accept some new ideas?!! Our Holy Torah does not change with the generations. Tznius has been there since our Matriarch Sarah, its the merit in which we were redeemed from Mitzrayim , and it is in the merit of Tznius that we will greet Moshiach speedily in our days. The Rebbe would be proud when instead being hurt you will dress more modest in the future and influence you friends. Tznius is not about criticizing or hurting feelings. Tznius is about being proud of who you are – a daughter of Hashem and the world respects you much more when… Read more »

Opinion
Guest
Opinion

That woman is clearly off. If you were tzniusdik then you have nothing to apologize for. However, to those who are not tzniusdik , it is actually not your business. You are walking in public showing parts of your body that the Torah says should be covered. You willingly exposing people to these body parts. To that I will say that at best you are clueless and shallow. Alternately, I would say you are selfish and immoral. It’s a free country. You can do what you please. But understand what you are doing. Don’t give people tests they don’t ask… Read more »

ach!!
Guest
ach!!

I dont believe this story. I think this author is just sending a warning out there or the author is trying to play victim! I don’t think any of our tsnius women speak like this unless there is more to the story … ..

Amen sister!!
Guest
Amen sister!!

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I have been waiting for the day that Chabad treats its own with as much understanding and love as they treat those who aren’t religious. I hope people read and take to heart. You’re spreading an important message!

Don't make excuses
Guest
Don't make excuses

To do the wrong thing. If you want to dress untznius and by that I mean not following the clearly stated halachos then that is your problem.
But don’t go using some crazy person’s rude remarks to make excuses.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Good luck

One Second...
Guest
One Second...

She’s so worried about Tznius?
How about Ahavas Yisroel?!

Moishe
Guest
Moishe

instead of starting to cry she should have asked the
Women what about her wasent tznius and after she
Heard the answer she could have then decided
If the women had a point even though she does not agre

Puhleez
Guest
Puhleez

There are rules. Someone called Hashem made them. Yeah, they can be pretty hard to follow sometimes. You don’t wanna follow them? Your business – but be a woman and cop the backlash. Don’t come whining for support.

Ship this crazy woman and 10 more to California
Guest
Ship this crazy woman and 10 more to California

Sorry for your feeling not appropriate but here in California we need posters and deranged people to persuade all this women that ignore any teaching out of love in this serious matter.
Promiscuity, vulgarity and lack of tznius are not compatible with aspirations to serve Hashem.
We cant offend anyone but also the women are not entitle to dress under the halacha code not Taliban or fanatics just literally down the knee, cover elbow etc…
because this brings parnosso issues, shalom bayis issues and prolongs exile

Bizarre
Guest
Bizarre

The whole story is odd: no woman at an engagement party is going tell someone “Hashem doesn’t like you…He’s going to punish you for what you are.” It’s ludicrous. And for the record, you can’t say about tznius that “it’s my business.”

tznius
Guest
tznius

while I know that keeping tznius helps protect soldiers in israel and all over the world and I try my best. I would have said to that lady “excuse me! the way you are talking is totally not tznius and Hashem does not like your actions now

I think it's great
Guest
I think it's great

No matter which side of the issue you are on, isn’t it wonderful that we can have an open discussion about this?

Crown heights resident
Guest
Crown heights resident

How dare everyone justify a girl dressing not tzniusdil. Yes, the person talking to her should have been more sensitive but I guess she was so disgusted with a girl coming to a simcha dressed not tzniusdik that she just said what she did. Please dress like a Jewish girl and not like a shikse and you will not be embarrassed. If you must dress like that, please leave our neighborhood and move back where you came from.

C. B.
Guest
C. B.

Tznius is not about cover this and cover that or you’re gonna get gehenim. It’s about revealing the neshama/G-dliness…… Let’s remember that. Also, everyone has his/her own struggles, and while I’m not perfect, and my kids will attest to that, it’s not a good idea to judge eachother!!!

Unfortunately, I do believe this
Guest
Unfortunately, I do believe this

I have witnessed other similar encounters. It’s certainly not common, but happens enough that yes, this article is believable.

comment 10
Guest
comment 10

You could not have summed it up better.

The title CONRTADICTS the article.   its sad...
Guest
The title CONRTADICTS the article. its sad...

While there’s nobody in their right mind who’d justify the absurd behavior of that particular woman,i.e. attacking & bullying another individual covering with a holy agenda..
Likewise it’s very wrong to attack the tznius awareness (the title: ‘Tznius Police’ ) & covering with an outrage of lack of humanity.
Tznius is a precious gem that was given, as a keilee to all the Blessings that Hashem has, to give! its a pity that

"Simply the way I live my life"
Guest
"Simply the way I live my life"

What if you want to eat treif, or keep shabbos but only drive a car shabbas. Does that make it right? You are wrong. I don’t believe that anyone said these words to you. She most likely said dress like a frum person and Hashem will like that. You are Not a victim you are the source of much of the deteriation of our young generation. Bravo to any adult woman who has the guts to say it like it is.

I hear!!!
Guest
I hear!!!

I heard the Iranian government is looking to hire that lady as a revolutionary guard to keep the U.S. culture out of Iran, now that the sanctions are being lifted.

A different look at tznius
Guest
A different look at tznius

Totally wrong of the tznius police. But i just realized for myself at the age of 50, the way to explain tznius. A woman’s body is very powerful. This power is supposed to be used for good holy things, in the proper way and the proper time. By reserving the power for the appropriate time and place, we use this power properly. When the power is used in not the proper time and place, then it misused, wasted, and can have bad results. So tznius isn’t that we are ashamed or hiding our beauty, it’s preserving it for the appropriate… Read more »

Finally!
Guest
Finally!

Fantastic piece!! Finally, someone talking about the real issue at hand..

Keep an outfit for these types of events.
Guest
Keep an outfit for these types of events.

Why not go the extra mile and be respectful of the community you’re in and just dress according to the way of land, in this case crown heights? It’s the mature and right thing to do regardless of your choices. Her comment is nuts. But doing the right thing will take you far wherever life may lead you.

breathe
Guest
breathe

this woman was obviously not ok and said something crazy. the words are hurtful but lets realize shes coming from a misguided place or has issues- lets not take so personally and start branding age groups or diff types of people as problematic- this woman does not reflect too many ppl with this mindset
lets all be stronger in our values and not get so thrown off by what the person near us says or thinks- unless of course it will help us grow (not in this case…)

Here we go again
Guest
Here we go again

You can be fully covered up yet not be tzanua. I am sickened by the women in Crown Heights that sashay down Kingston in these super-tight tube skirts (above the knee) tops that are flamboyant and either very tight or so loose the necklines are down low. Sleeves? Hose? What are they? Standards have dropped so much that women don’t realize how they look. I would guess Sheina’s friend dresses in the same way so she wouldn’t see anything wrong. As for this nutcase- as others said, she is clearly crazy. I am mentally doing a roll call & I… Read more »

seriously?
Guest
seriously?

seriously? an off-the-wall woman comes up to you at a lechaim and you generalize this into a whole philosophical thing? if she were a health nut and did the same drama thing about eating the pastries, would you write a whole article about it? The question we want to ask ourselves is- DOES OUR TZNIUS STANDARD AFFECT OTHER PEOPLE? Or the world? Or G-d? Or past, present, and future? If no, then we can do what suits us- it’s our private decision; if yes, then that is a huge responsibility. That’s the question that I would like to spend some… Read more »

The truth about Tznius
Guest
The truth about Tznius

It’s not an option, it’s an obligation

Innerperspective
Guest
Innerperspective

Dear Ms. Offended and whoever else needs to accepted for who they are, I truly feel that you are not at fault for feeling this way, for you are a bit misinformed about the level or meaning of ‘acceptance is that our community needs to have. We absolutely need to be accepting of people for who they are. But you have the definition wrong. We should accept that someone who is wearing tznius might be uncomfortable or uneducated about the importance of what they are doing, and therefor make sure to uplift, be positive to, or accept that while she… Read more »

to 37
Guest
to 37

You say: “”Simply the way I live my life” What if you want to eat treif, or keep shabbos but only drive a car shabbas. Does that make it right? You are wrong. I don’t believe that anyone said these words to you. She most likely said dress like a frum person and Hashem will like that. You are Not a victim you are the source of much of the deteriation of our young generation. Bravo to any adult woman who has the guts to say it like it is.” NOW, imagine a shliach saying that to ANY person whom… Read more »

Waiting
Guest
Waiting

For the ‘better’ approach that everyone must have. I am not condoning the comments or actions of this women and I am also of the opinion that tznius is an issue and that it needs to be addressed. Any better ideas? Honestly.

I agree with the author
Guest
I agree with the author

Tznius has evolved in the past, and will continue to evolve in the future. I’m sure that when women switched from robes to dresses a thousand years ago, people thought it wasn’t Tznius.

Number 3
Guest
Number 3

Spot on!!!

To the author
Guest
To the author

Although the words were hurtful and in poor taste so was your dress. Just because you and your roommates think its OK to dress this way or that does not mean you have the right to bring it into a lechaim. In the future please be courteous to the others around you. We who live here and raise kids here and set a gone here are not going to sit back and watch as you desecrate all that is holy in our eyes. As for it being your own business, no, if dressing is only for yourself then we’d just… Read more »

agree with 45
Guest
agree with 45

I agree with 45, but you know what hurts, when you see a girl who has been brought up frum, decides to change her dress code ,with short sleeves , skirts above her knees no tights then walks around the neighbor hood with no shame ,but other keep quiet because if you say something people are afraid they are going to go further away from yiddishkiet.. I do not know what the answer is.Just so sad.

To comment #5
Guest
To comment #5

The Rebbe welcomed people, he did not accept them ‘for who they are’. The difference being not kicking someone out of shul (or doing this particular style of telling off) and telling a women its OK if she doesn’t were a shatel. In fact the Rebbe refused to be mesader kiddushin if the man didn’t keep a beard and the women wear a wig.
Point is its OK to let her know that she’s wrong, and don’t use the Rebbe to cover your misdeeds. Also if you dress untznius the Rebbe is not proud of it even if you write nicely.

Tznius
Guest
Tznius

Don’t think article ever happened but maybe subconsciously she felt someone looking at her. Personally we should all work on tznius since that one of of the three merits the yidden were taken out of galut!! We need that now!!!

DISGUSTING TO CALL IT "TZNIUS POLICE"
Guest
DISGUSTING TO CALL IT "TZNIUS POLICE"

How can you can call a person who is of the wall “TZNIUS POLICE”?!
This “sensational” article unfortunately provides unjustified “justification” for the many who don’t abide by the clear halochos of tznius outlined in the Shulchan Aruch!

Hashem loves you !
Guest
Hashem loves you !

this lady has such a low self esteem she is jelouse Of your beautiful dress and found happiness , many sic ladies who are self haters seek happy girls like you to hurt , Be happy , love yourself for who you are , where you came from and where you are going , Never accept any words from a fool , or you may level down to their level , I am living in Crosn Heights all my life , this community is a blessed community with the Rebbes brocho every single day , I wish these wakos a… Read more »

"It's simply the way I live my life"
Guest
"It's simply the way I live my life"

If someone were to tell you off for things that you do privately that are not according to our standards in halacha, then you are 100% RIGHT- its simply the way you live your life. It is no one’s business to say a word. What you may not realize is the huge effect on OTHERS that your lack of tzniyus creates. Its not a simple decision that is no one’s business. A lack of tzniyus unfortunately has negative ripple effects. As described by comment #39, there is a powerful negative impact that effects the entire community young girls, boys, bochrim… Read more »

i feel bad.
Guest
i feel bad.

its sad that peaple care so much about details and they miss the point. the way to change an individual or a community is not through making harsh remarks and making someone feel bad rather someone will only change through positive influence and kindness. To all those that are worried about their youth,the Rebbe wanted to go on shlichus and not rely on a community to be an example for our children. i think it’s sad that there are so many people that agree with such rong ways of rebuke. it seems like people are very selfish when it comes… Read more »

pinchas of our generation
Guest
pinchas of our generation

Beautiful

to 46 and others
Guest
to 46 and others

Tznius the way you described it, is NOT an iker in Judaism, never has and it never should be.

Can everyone please just calm down, and have some saichel with a bit of psychology, stop screaming grabbing arms, puting up posters, saying it affects things across the world, this will just make the situation worse. The more you have these silly tactics the more it will continue. It hasn’t worked the past 10-15 years, and it will not work. All it does is creates fanatics on both sides.

Mimeni yireh vchain taasu,

Chodesh tov

Scepticle
Guest
Scepticle

How do we know that this exchange really transpired . I personally don’t believe .
I live in an extremely wealthy city in Europe and the women here ( non Jewish) step out of their fancy cars looking a lot more modest then the ‘ modern’ of crown heights!
One word missing in CH and that is…..CLASS!!

נפגש רק בשמחות
Guest
נפגש רק בשמחות

צניעות סגולה גדולה להגנת ארץ ישראל,וחייל צה”ל
וכמובן
, פרנסה בהרחבה. שלום בית ,
והכי חשוב להכין את העולם לקבלת פני משיח,
אמן כן יהי רצון.הצלחה רבה לילדים,

Why did you cry?
Guest
Why did you cry?

Were you laughing at her?

ROFL…..

to # 45
Guest
to # 45

Everything is an option – its called free choice.
Everyone does have free choice!
God is the ultimate democratic creator.
He gave people the freedom to choose – he’s also a cool risk taker/entrepreneur, for giving us this great world and all the choices within it!
Lots to learn from that god of ours!

Sorry, Everything is Hushgucha Pratis
Guest
Sorry, Everything is Hushgucha Pratis

If this happened, it happened for a good reason in order to bring her closer to Hashem.

The truth is that probably 40% of girls on Kingston in CH ar not dressed in accordance with halacha let alone middos Chassidus and it really needs to improve!

Max
Guest
Max

Obviously the lady has issues that’s not the way to deal with things but understandably as a human being when someone says something not nice to us to a certain degree it will bother us but that it should bother you to the point that you should write this whole letter ask your self why does it really bother me that much to the point that I have to write this whole letter. I don’t know how you dressed that evening maybe that lady was just a nut or maybe you needed someone like that to trigger wake up something… Read more »

OFFENDED??
Guest
OFFENDED??

Firstly, I Dont believe anyone spoke yo you so aggressively!! And if so stop playing victim!! I and many many others are deeply offended and embarrassed that our men can boys cant walk streets of Rebbes shchuna without having to see girls and women dressed im such untzniusdik attire! The other communities look down on us and its tremendous chilul Hashem! Were talking about halacha here not minhagim! Young jews come here to be mekarev and they have to see this??? Sorry but you cant snub the community with your blatant disregard of tznius and cry victim!!!

maybe this woman was gezsh like i am,
Guest
maybe this woman was gezsh like i am,

and having her ancestors wiped out by the holocaust, she just couldnt understand why someone would dress untznius, giving the nazis what they wanted, without a gun being pointed to her head!

To #32 ans #37
Guest
To #32 ans #37

I understand your frustration but your anger and bitterness is bleeding through. Unfortunately we live in a time where there is a desperate need for shlichus in our own commmunity. Infact every child we raise “frum” is a shlichus. How easy it would be to turn someone away with a few hateful words like “Gd hates you.” What unrefined speech or furthermore verbal abuse and garbage of the mouth. Who are you to judge any soul struggling through to keep their yiddishkeit together. Nobody is condoning dressing immodestly, but we definitely do not support the hateful words in which were… Read more »

hurting mother
Guest
hurting mother

This post really effected my daughter who teachers kept yelling at her telling her shes a goy when she had a button open .words can effect a child my child was hurt so much by words and actions dresses like a non frum person because of it I wouldn’t wish the pain on anyone .shes angry as the ones who told her to dress more tznius and do stuff that are not so kosher bh my daughter davens says brochos hopefully with the foundation shes had she will come back fully. Words hurt so be careful what u say

Applicable Timeless Wisdom from The Rebbe:
Guest
Applicable Timeless Wisdom from The Rebbe:

By the Grace of G‑d 5724 [1964] Brooklyn, N.Y. Greeting and Blessing: ….. When an emergency arises, {..} all theoretical differences must be put aside in order to deal with the emergency. To illustrate my point: It is one thing to debate what type of house—if it caught fire—is worth saving, OR BY WHAT METHOD, and by whom. It is quite another thing when one is actually facing a burning house with people trapped therein, old ones, younger ones and children. At such a time there can be no difference of opinion as to the imperative need to fight the… Read more »

Very true
Guest
Very true

Amazing article with an important message for all. Kol hakavod to you for sharing this.

How does one deal with Fashion and Peer pressure?
Guest
How does one deal with Fashion and Peer pressure?

There are a lot of very positive pro-tznius comments here. May I add that the nay sayers missed that the author wrote that the woman came over to her and quietly spoke to her. Her reply was inappropriate. Lack of tznius clothing seems to me to be due to gentile fashion trends and peer pressure, not to lack of self-respect or any other psychological hang ups. Chinuch today teaches a lot of feel good, soul enhancing concepts. Perhaps we also need to add the teaching of kabbolos oyl, yiras Shomaim, reward and punishment, and the ability to stand up to… Read more »

Read the article
Guest
Read the article

She said her dress was tznius. Why are you all attacking her? She said that she was trying to be respectful and specifically dressed appropriately . Give her some credit.

I wish she said it to me
Guest
I wish she said it to me

As an adult guy I’m never on the receiving end of this kind of chastising that I often hear about from older women (and men!!) To young women. I wish they would say something in from of me so I can give them a piece of my mind. They only pick on people they feel they are stronger than so they wont answer back.

Also, to the commentators saying “its in the torah” please show a source in the torah that refers to necklines and elbows.

Disgusting
Guest
Disgusting

This whole “Tznus Police” is worse than those who dress untzniusly! The point in suggesting to someone that they could dress more modestly is to help them, not embarrass them! And even then, people should keep their opinions to themselves! Make sure your hands are clean before pointing at others. Things are going to far!

unfortunate incident
Guest
unfortunate incident

As a therapist, #12’s psyco babble is absurd. It was hard to read all the comments. No stranger ever has the right to touch you physically in the way you described. Obviously she is not well herself. I believe not dressing sniut for someone who knows better is like an insult to Hasem, but He loves all of us Yidden for sure. The rude, disruptive lady should have been asked to leave.

take it to heart
Guest
take it to heart

We all Yiden believe in hashgacha pratis, and how everything that one sees and hears is Hashem’s message to each of us to bring us close to Him.

Since you decided to post, I assume that you care about what we have to say:
Regardless the inappropriate way the message was delivered to you, Hashem may have sent you BECAUSE HASHEM CARES ABOUT YOU AND WANTS TO BRING YOU CLOSE TO HIM AGAIN.

No 77
Guest
No 77

She wasn’t disruptive. We were not there, but perhaps she didn’t grab, but put a warm, loving hand on the girl but was treated with derision which got her to reply harshly. Although we could just as well agree with the author. So calm down. Neverthless, the author had to check whether she was dressed appropriately. Sorry, but I don’t need to ask my husband such a question when we go out, because I don’t have inappropriate clothing in the wardrobe! Indeed HaShem does love all of us, but sometimes, like any good parent, gives us a patch when we… Read more »

Pay attention
Guest
Pay attention

It seems that the women spoke softly to you and your response was RUDE. It is not your business how you dress in public. It is your RESPONSIBILITY because other young impressionable girls may follow.
If you would have responded with thank you for making me aware of my dress code, I am sure the lady would have left.
You exasperated the situation with your response.
This women is NOT the tznius police but a person who cares and is hurt by the deteriation of tzinuus in C H.

Therapist
Guest
Therapist

The only “therapist” is the Nosi of the Generation, there is no source in Torah for “therapists” that refer to and rely on “secular knowledge”…

Good
Guest
Good

now dress tzniusdik.

Just Like
Guest
Just Like

It’s like when you’re eating something delicious and suddenly find a hair in your mouth. The food is still just as good as always, but that one hair could make you lose your appetite altogether. That woman who spoke harshly is like a hair in the food. She has no business speaking like that to anyone, and I know it’s difficult, but try to give her as much thought as you would to that annoying hair. Don’t let it ruin the entire meal, because it’s really something insignificant.

the way to dress
Guest
the way to dress

dress as if you would be walking past the Rebbe

Both need correction
Guest
Both need correction

BH

There is proper attire for every event, and to come with an inappropriate untznius clothes is simply disrespectful, and you chose to be disrespectful don’t be surprised that you were treated with disrespect.
on the other hand there clearly ways the Torah instructs us how to rebuke another, it should be done in private in a respectful sensitive manner, and out of love.

# 81
Guest
# 81

What in the world are you on about? By that token you should never enter a car it relys on secular knowledge to move you and keep u safe in the event of a crash.

And next time you have a headache hang a chicken from the doorpost see if it helps.

How should we broach this topic
Guest
How should we broach this topic

Is there ANY way a person can say ANYTHING to another in this area that will be well received? The approach used would have turned me off, but It does make me think of a quote I heard recently, “Listen to your enemy. He has information your friends won’t tell you.”

Tears for prayers.
Guest
Tears for prayers.

I hope your shedding tears was for the lack of Yiras Shomayim and mockery of Halocha that is pervasive in this society.

Pedant
Guest
Pedant

Very good. So crazy people can also contribute. Hashems loves you but if fear of shame creates second thoughts in your mind about how or how much you present yourself in public then good on her.

Don’t look. Don’t look. I don’t. But you are effectively robbing everyone of an normal field of vision. You are hurting the community and this is a thing only women can say to women so thank G-d for the crazies cause it’s getting out of hand.

not a monster
Guest
not a monster

You sound like a sweet young lady who really wants to do what’s right. The best thing is to read the Shulchan Oruch and know the halochas instead of asking a friend.
The women who approuched you does NOT sound like a monster to me.
She was probably so upset with the entire scene and picked you to chastise.
Probably her life was so difficult to keep Torah and Mitzvos that she has a hard time seeing things against Torah which can be kept in FREEDOM today.

Tznius or not...
Guest
Tznius or not...

“Hashem doesn’t like you,” she said quietly. “He’s going to punish you for what you are.”
Even if the author was dressed immodestly, there are plenty of ways to tell her off in a way that is not CRUEL and HATEFUL!

Outsider
Guest
Outsider

I am an outsider that does not understand. What is the great allure in dressing provocatively? Isn’t there a beauty in the hidden? I think a woman that dresses in a revealing way lack self confidence. If you value it, you keep it hidden. If it’s sacred, then it’s powerful and private. What is the message that the young women are receiving? And what message are are they giving back? Is it a power struggle? A cry for attention? A rebellion? These are really holy yidden. Dressing unholy. Why does it not bother them? As far as rude people. If… Read more »

To #20, Moshe, 80 and the rest of you pointing fingers
Guest
To #20, Moshe, 80 and the rest of you pointing fingers

Tznius is very important and the way a person dresses does make one feel differently and act differently. But there are other things to keep in mind. Our community has opened it”s doors to welcome many people from all over. What if this had been someone that was actually not frum at all and trying to do their best?!! And though it seems like this girl grew up within the community – what ever happened to chesed starting at home?!! In reality most of you do not even know the halachos of tznius. For example there is no halacha that… Read more »

The reason for immodesty is irrelevant, when...
Guest
The reason for immodesty is irrelevant, when...

Regardless of the reason that one doesn’t wear protective clothing during the freezing winter months, the person will get cold. Whether someone is immodest because of social pressures, “style”, lack of funds to buy clothing that fits etc… The result is the same… They get sick (in the head) from it! They get cold in their spirit from it. It changes the way they relate to themselves and others. It’s unavoidable. And contrary to popular belief, the first person protected by modest attire is the person who wears it, for the first person damaged is the person who doesn’t, regardless… Read more »

what is tznius?
Guest
what is tznius?

If anyone wants to be honest and willing to put your hysteria aside for a moment look at fotos from way back.Necklines are low.Sleeves above the elbows.These were totally frum women whose standards were very different from today.There was an emphasis on other issues.Times change and restrictions change.In fact take a good look and you will see certain women wore hats and hair was visible.I know.Hard to admit certain facts.Now I saw sleeves below the elbows and skirts below the knees but both were so tight,I could see every body part in graphic detail.So this is tznius too?You have to… Read more »

crazy
Guest
crazy

the tznius police are doing a good job . keep it up. its a shame that in all the other frum comunities in the world (other chassidim and not chassidim) and even chabad in other cities they are very tznius, and in the rebbs’s shchuna they are not tznius

It or You
Guest
It or You

Think again, maybe the lady said Hashem does not like IT (refering to the lack of respect to Him) and you heard Hashem does not like You.

reverse tactics
Guest
reverse tactics

What you should have done is taken her photo. and then shamed her on all the social media sites. Let her feel some of the shame she gave you. Maybe remind her what it says about publicly embarrassing someone! It makes me angry to think how many people might have been further pushed away with these comments. These people think this will bring moshiach closer?! I can assure you it only lengthens us to remain in galus.

Dear Shaina,
Guest
Dear Shaina,

C’mon,honestly,this women has a mental health issue and obviously doesn’t represent the rest of us. Some like to use the worse case scenarios to “prove” how tznus isn’t that important or that those who think it is are wrong. Rally what’s lacking here is poshut honestly with one’s self.

I think...
Guest
I think...

that this article comes in today in response to yesterdays article regarding tznius and the protection of Israel. BUT, if not then, what the woman said was outrageous. However, we still have an obligation to be tznius.

That's my business
Guest
That's my business

When any Jew is lacking in any way it is the responsibility of all of klal yisroel to reach out to them and to save them. The Rebbe spoke publicly about and pointed out the error of those who say “my life is is my business” comparing it to someone who rents a room in a cruise ship and then starts to drill a hole in the bottom of the ship. When the other passengers implore them to stop they say “I paid for this room and what I do in it is my business.” A person who does not… Read more »

Lets not forget about the men
Guest
Lets not forget about the men

People folks, let us not forget about the men who do the same on a daily basis.
why do we in crown heights tolerate men and women who suffer from insecurities about their religious lifestyles. and take it out on strangers…!?
this is not bnei brak where we throw rocks and scream shabbos which has as much of a positive effect on people as brain tumor…

you are grabbing a "red herring"
Guest
you are grabbing a "red herring"

I personally don’t believe this story happened. If it did, it was exaggerated. If in a million chances it happened the way it was written here, obviously the woman that made the comments is NOT your average Lubavitcher. To every generality there are exceptions. This woman making the comments was clearly an exception, and you know that! . SO WHY DO YOU WRITE TZNIYUS POLICE?? Do you have an agenda to show that those that REALLY care about tzniyus are mean and crazy like this woman, (if it ever happened). If someone in the street said something crazy to you… Read more »

to#92
Guest
to#92

Be specific when you say revealing what are they revealing.

This is one of the most easiest topic to attack, but why is that?

#65
What’s stopping men from walking the streets?

"Crazy" "mental issues"
Guest
"Crazy" "mental issues"

To those that say “well obviously this woman wasn’t normal” just read the comments. Half the commentators seem to think she was justified or that it’s sheinas fault. Does that make them crazy too? To dismiss the woman as a crazy person is to dismiss the issue of people being downright nasty to their own. Why is it so easy for some people to love and accept outsiders but not their own? Sheina brought up a real issue that needs to be talked about and not just dismissed as making drama.

Both are wrong
Guest
Both are wrong

Thats it: both are wrong, the article shows only the bad comment of the “tznius” woman but both are wrong!

with the old breed
Guest
with the old breed

there are not two sides stop trying to break and build. Why are you living in CH because of the Rebbe? We are all his children and there is nothing greater then when they get along. now is the time to act with love not hate.

@44
Guest
@44

At a recent Shiur (Shabbos Parshas Balak), Crown Heights Mashpia Rabbi Michoel Seligson quoted a Sicha of the Rebbe, in which he says that women observing the laws of Tznius protect the Jewish people in the land of Israel from harm. Some of those present asked Rabbi Seligson for the source of this Sicha, which he provided, and sent it to us as well to share with the broader Chabad community. Excerpt of the Rebbe’s talk to Kinus Nshei Ubnos Chabad, Iyar 28, 5730 (1970): “.. And it should be as we have just read (in the Parsha), “You will… Read more »

very well put
Guest
very well put

i grew up in crown hights
the rebbes look at tznius was
kol kvudah bas melech pnima
definition in my opinion is basic self respect
fortunately lately we were honored with individuals from a community where tznius is all about what the man can see
and that’s the biggest mistake to enter our community
it is an approach that is the to belittle the holy self confidence that serves as a force in every aspect of our shlichus

to no 81
Guest
to no 81

youre clearly ignorant THE REBBE HIMSELF AHS ADVISED MANY PEOPLE TO GO AND SEEK THERAPY

TO 96. YOU ARE RIGHT.
Guest
TO 96. YOU ARE RIGHT.

Did your dress cover your knees? BE HONEST. That is a problem if it did.
WE NEED MASHICA.
tznius police ARE GOOD.

Shaina, Shaina, sechel, sechel
Guest
Shaina, Shaina, sechel, sechel

Dears and chers, If the story is true or a made up, anyway it’s sad. Sad that you should imagine such a scenario, that and in the 3 weeks, Sad, to report a dysfuctional girl/lady, and there are a handfull, nevertheless you support her by this article in her fantastic ‘responsabilit’y and by adding a Title of ‘ Tziyuth Police’. (Police of whom, is Tzniyus needs a Police?, Tzniyus needs ‘Jewish Models’, like cheekiness has already plenty of indecent Models) True to the core, Tzinyuss is indeed a personnal issue, in a personnal environement, only in your house, [and effectivly… Read more »

Sounds like a whack job
Guest
Sounds like a whack job

This woman that yelled at you sounds a bit crazy.
I believe strongly in tznius, and the lack of tznius bothers me, but a normal person does not put down another in this fashion.
You met a crazy lady at a l’chaim. Ok.
If you feel this bad, it means that you were not sure about how were dressed. It’s fine. Move along. You met a crazy lady. Stop taking this so personally.

To #75
Guest
To #75

You are right.

The Rebbitzin dressed Tznius because that was her way of life.

So all you Tanius police commentators, tell me, that was the way The Rebbitzin was Tznius, and this is the way I am Tznius. Maybe even more Tznius than you, because I am beautiful in the inside, too, not just with my skirt and sleeves to the ground, and my neckline til the sky. So what am I doing wrong?

And #25, exactly – everyone had their ma’alos and chesronos. Mine might be Tznius, and theirs might be Ahavas Yisroel.

What Right?
Guest
What Right?

The first thing that hit me when I read this op ed, is that I would feel “violated” if another person put her hands on me! To add to the violation of the writer’s personal space, does the perpetrator really think that she will “mekarev” her prey with her negative approach? As a FFB person, (but not orignally Chabad), what has drawn me to Chabad is the Rebbe’s ZY”A approach that there is more than unites us then divides us. It is always easy to mekarev someone who knows nothing about Yiddishkeit, then we, the ones supposedly in the know,… Read more »

What would affect you to grow in Tznius?
Guest
What would affect you to grow in Tznius?

It would be interesting is to have the author write a follow up article of what could’ve been said that would’ve motivated her to want a high standard in Tznius i.e. to the degree those comments drove her to tears, what could’ve been said to drive her to be such an example of Tznius that she attracts compliments rather than criticisms.

WHY WAS SHE NOT TZNUIT?
Guest
WHY WAS SHE NOT TZNUIT?

The Rebbe said that ALL women and girls should dress tznuis. It does not matter if you are modern, all girls should dress tznuis. It was wrong of the lady to approach her like that she should of done it in private. But really if she is moved to tears when someone tells her she is not tznuit THAN WHY NOT DRESS TZNUIT!!!

The Tznius Lady
Guest
The Tznius Lady

I think everyone is jumping to conclusions without hearing the second party. Now that is definitely against Torah. I was at a lechayim and heard a lady say to a woman not dressed 100% according to halacha that it’s not nice and Hashem doesn’t like it. She never attacked the girl. When I asked her why she speaks like that and doesn’t just say the positive she told me when she grew up her mother would read her the Tochacha every day so she would have the fear of Hashem in her. That is what kept her strong in the… Read more »

The moral of the story
Guest
The moral of the story

Why change yourself when you can criticize someone else? Both the girl and the woman were engaging in the same thing, trying to change other people.
(And yes, so am I. But that’s my point, we all do the same thing)

attn #33!
Guest
attn #33!

I 100% agree with you!

Many people in Crown Heights have a huge tznius issue, and im not sure what to think about this scenario.
What that woman said was wrong. Wearing non tzniusdike clothing is also wrong

Shamed to be a lubavitcher
Guest
Shamed to be a lubavitcher

How dare the author asking in a lubavitch website for compassion when she embarrassed every lubavitch woman or girl living outside of crown heights! This is the rebbes place not a modern orthodox community. I understand why another woman is fed up and aggravated by the authors way of dress. I don’t step in crown heights any more because it’s too painful. You can move to Teaneck and five towns and stop presenting yourself as a lubavitch girl because we have to defend lubavitch name because of you

Connection To God
Guest
Connection To God

Your story reinforces the idea that we must NOT allow ANYONE to stand in between ourselves and Hahsem. NO ONE should EVER be allowed to contaminate this pure and holy bond. L’chaim.

Thank you!
Guest
Thank you!

Some of these comments are harsh but I’ve learned a valuable lesson. I’m not from crown heights and I’m working and improving in tznuis but I’m not perfect. I honestly never thought about the impact of tznuis in a community and with the help of G-d I will dress 100% tznuis in ch and other large Jewish communities. Thank you for opening my eyes.

True story
Guest
True story

Unfortunately this is the second time I hear of a lady telling someone “gd hates you because your skirt is too short”. At a L’chaim. The first time it happened with a non Chabad girl who specifically chose her” longest skirt ” for the Chabad event, a co worker’s lechaim, and was also approached by (I guess) this woman telling her that gd hates her. She was shocked and sad. I was ashamed. HOWEVER, I knew this is not a typical Chabad lady. She MUST have issues. And that’s what I told my non Chabad friend. That this is for… Read more »

Wow, that's insane!
Guest
Wow, that's insane!

Wish I was there to back you up!
And I’m a bochur…
What a sick thing to say to someone!
If I see that happen I would kick that lady who made such a nasty comment out of the room. She doesn’t belong next to people, she belongs upstairs 770…

Perspective
Guest
Perspective

People are saying here that although the offending woman was inappropriate in her words and approach, the young woman is still at fault for not dressing appropriately in Crown Heights, where there are higher standards as determined by the teaching of the Rebbe. Others are complaining about the lack of female Tznius that is witnessed on Kingston Avenue. I think that the older woman was indeed in the wrong, and that the complainers must face the fact that just because someone is raised in a Frum family, it does not mean that Tznius is not challenging. This incorrect perception seems… Read more »

I think some people are missing the point
Guest
I think some people are missing the point

I think some people are missing the point. This article isn’t about whether the author was dressed according to the standards of the community or not. The article was pointing out how this negative approach not only doesn’t help the tznius situation, but it makes things worse. It makes people angry and negative, and less likely to change how they dress. Saying something is one thing. Driving people away is another. And whether our not you like it or you think it is right, a different approach is needed in our community and schools if you want our daughters to… Read more »

Stockings
Guest
Stockings

Is it more tznius to wear stockings and painted toenails or no stockings and closed toed shoes

HALACHA
Guest
HALACHA

if you are not tznius the way shulchan aruch says then you are not exactly frum, its not called modern its called fry!!! and you dont belong in the rebbes community!!!
the rebbe didnt stand for such thing so dont start saying whats the rebbes way when the rebbe said clearly that his way is tznius according to shulchan aruch!!!

I think some people are missing the point
Guest
I think some people are missing the point

I think some people are missing the point. This article isn’t about whether the author was dressed according to the standards of the community or not. The article was pointing out how this negative approach not only doesn’t help the tznius situation, but it makes things worse. It makes people angry and negative, and less likely to change how they dress. Saying something is one thing. Driving people away is another. And whether our not you like it or you think it is right, a different approach is needed in our community and schools if you want our daughters to… Read more »

CH old timer
Guest
CH old timer

I must say that I visit CH every so often, and I’m shocked the way “some” dress. Dressing tznius is not as much as for yourself but rather the people that pass by you. You are machsil others with a Lav of v’loi susiru.. yes the Rebbe N”E would accept each and every one with love it still does not give you a heter of wearing in modest dresses. Come on CH and wake up tznius is a very serious aveireh

to 65- FOURTY PERCENT?!
Guest
to 65- FOURTY PERCENT?!

i think you got your numbers completely wrong!
i am so sorry to say this- but unfortunately, AT LEAST 90% (!!!) are NOT DRESSED TZNIUSDIK!!!
tell me, how many of THE BEST GIRLS cover their knees, ACCORDING TO THE STANDARDS OF HALACHA???
not more than 10%…
hashem should help…

"MY PERSONAL BUISENESS" ???
Guest
"MY PERSONAL BUISENESS" ???

SO if 100 lubavitcher men would march around the streets of crown heights in front of YOUR CHILDREN,wearing NO YARMULKAS but they’d say its “MY PERSONAL BUISENESS & i learn chitas & i’m a refined person & dont be m’rachek me etc… if everyone will just be quiet..YOU KNOW WHAT CH WILL END UP IN … TIME TO WAKE UP!

Kvuda Bas Melech
Guest
Kvuda Bas Melech

When will the sefer Kvuda Bas Melech (on the halachos of Tznius) be reprinted?

To QUOTE THE REBBE
Guest
To QUOTE THE REBBE

the Rebbe once said , when a woman (or girl) does not dress tzniusdik she is making a statement that she has nothing more (than a body) to offer….
Whilst this woman used the wrong words (if it is in fact true) the lack of tzniusdik in crown heights is so painfully hard to live with, and it’s a huge credit to all the women who dress appropriately for not lacing into the boards of crown heights women who are embarrassing Lubavitch to the world by their atrocious lack of any vestige of Tznius!!!

#118
Guest
#118

explains where the critic is coming from. Perhaps someone
can help her get her message across in a milder manner.

Jewish models from 5th av in CH
Guest
Jewish models from 5th av in CH

When I see a beautiful young woman in very fancy dress , like a model from a poster on 5th ave ….. 1. I’m happy that she is still in CH for Shabbes and Yom Tov , her little kids are yeshiva boys and her husband going to the synagogue in CH !!! One day I believe her dress will grow with her 2. I’m happy to see her in fancy dress because she challenges our community to dress more fancy and not in shmata every Shabbes and Yom Tov , and on a regular day too 3. I wish… Read more »

2 points
Guest
2 points

To # 126 I know I don’t live in N.Y., but every time I visit N.Y. in the women’s section, I see many Tznius women and girls doing the right thing, I believe at least the vast majority of men also are. Please don’t take the liberty to disrespect the Rebbe and his Chassidim, with your nasty and insensitive comments (despite your possible good intentions) about one of the Holiest places on earth, painting an ugly picture, regardless of your possible personal experiences. I personally feel a lot of Holiness in 770, which I feel your comment disregards!! Although not… Read more »

Post your picture!
Guest
Post your picture!

#98 – What would be fair is for Shaina to post a picture of HERSELF in that outfit!!!!
You are missing the point.
As a Lubavitcher we either do a KIDDUSH HASHEM (KIDDUSH LUBAVITCH) or the oppoite.
What’s in your heart only Hashem knows but your Chitzonius – your clothing everyone sees and judges you by them.
It is not fair to our HOLY TORAH and HOLY REBBE to disobay and disgrace them.

KEEP YOUR SKIN PRIVATE!
Guest
KEEP YOUR SKIN PRIVATE!

READING THIS ARTICLE AND SOME OF THE COMMENTS MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL! HOW LOW HAVE WE FALLEN, THAT A CARING WOMEN WHO FINALLY HAD THE GUTS TO SPEAK UP IS CALLED CRAZY AND INSANE!! SHE DIDNOT STRIKE HER ; JUST HELD ON TO HER. THIS TOO COULD HAVE COME FROM A PLACE OF CARING. HAS THE OUSIDE INFLUENSE ALSO GOTTEN TO ALL OF YOU? MY SON CANNOT WALK ON KINGSTON AVENUE BECAUSE OF THE WAY SOME GIRLS DRESS. IS THAT FAIR? DID YOU EVER THINK THAT YOUR ACTIONS MAKE KINGSTON AVENUE A NO- FRUM ZONE. I AM SO UPSET ABOUT… Read more »

Have a heart
Guest
Have a heart

Breaking someone’s spirit is worse than a minor infringment of tziniut, surely! Particularly if the infringement was inadvertent and not intentional.

Keep it you yourself
Guest
Keep it you yourself

Wow what do you think you accomplished by being rude?

lmhc
Guest
lmhc

there is no concept of old or new generation here we are all bought into this world to grow upwards its not about tolerance

TO 116 AND ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN FINDING SOLUTIONS
Guest
TO 116 AND ANYONE ELSE INTERESTED IN FINDING SOLUTIONS

about how to encourage girls to dress tznius’dik. there i9s a lot to be said, and whoever has a suggestion PLEASE tell everyone- the more people know, the better we can implement it. thank you! on a personal note, last shabbos, i got a comment that was a very strong chizuk for me to dress tzniusdik. on shabbos, i was in 770 wearing a tzniusdike dress, and a girl who i dont know, walked over and said “your dress is very pretty”. this seemingly tiny comment REALLY made me realize that wearing a tzniusdike dress didnt make me ugly or… Read more »

Assimilation
Guest
Assimilation

I REALLY don’t believe this story happened exactly as said.

Question: Why are so many people here not inspired? They don’t care that they are assimilating. First, they excuse themselves. Then they hate religion. This is what happened between the two World Wars–and continues til this day.

To Sheina
Guest
To Sheina

The next time someone bullies you, or anyone else, this way, take our your phone, take a picture of them, and post it online. Bullies only see to understand what they are doing when they are recipients of the same behaviour.

She was a messenger of hashem
Guest
She was a messenger of hashem

In chasidus we learn that everything that happens to u is hashgacha protis for all you As far as she is concirned hashem has his way of sending everyone the message they need to hear
Its sad that you where hurt and we pray that hashem should find pleasent ways to send us messages
Amen

To Sheina
Guest
To Sheina

Next time you dress as an example of a true Bas Yisroel
and let people learn from you. You can tip the scale to bring Moshiach Now!

Who knows what the Rebbe said?
Guest
Who knows what the Rebbe said?

Everyone speaks in the name of the Rebbe, but do you know what the Rebbe really said? It’s all printed in a book “The Rebbe on Modesty”, in easy to read style and gorgeous layout.
Read what the Rebbe said, and then you can speak up.

to 128
Guest
to 128

Wear stockings. thanks for doing your best to improve! keep it up!

stop being all opend minded
Guest
stop being all opend minded

for some reason these storys never happen to me or my friends and i know its sad to be told off but when its deserved thats it next time dress tznius

It looks like
Guest
It looks like

based on the pro Tznius comments that we have many more women, who dress properly, then not, B”H!!

Why?
Guest
Why?

I don’t understand why, of all the mitzvos, people get the MOST upset when they see a woman not adhering to what they understand to be the letter of the law when it comes to tznius. You just don’t see threads with 150 comments about someone who picked the raisins out of her salad on Shabbos. What is it about US that we can’t deal when we see someone else not following this particular area of halacha? Men and women alike seem to be terribly upset about the way other people dress. Do we have people stopping people at engagement… Read more »

The Rebbe Igrot Kodesh V. 26 p. 324
Guest
The Rebbe Igrot Kodesh V. 26 p. 324

7 Adar I, 5730 Brooklyn, NY To the Worldwide Central Organization of “N’shei Uvnos Chabad”, G-d Bless Them: Greeting and Blessing! On several occasions I have already made note of the importance of strengthening the issue of “tznius.” However, taking into account the general situation in this area, I find it important to issue a strong appeal, today, regarding this matter. From a Torah perspective it is superfluous to expand on the importance on the topic of tznius. Suffice it to say that the Torah is called תורת חיים (a living Torah) since it is our guide to our daily… Read more »

Igrot Kodesh V. 26
Guest
Igrot Kodesh V. 26

Moreover, it is evident from a purely humanistic view, particularly in our generation, the detrimental fallout that results from a breakdown in the standards of tznius. The proliferation of shameless women’s clothing today, which are intended to arouse man’s most base animalistic instincts, have succeeded in disassociating modern man from the most basic ethics and values. The unrestrained behavior and immodest dress of much of today’s youth, Hashem yerachem (Heaven help us) has brought terrible tragedies to many homes. It is certain that had these youths been educated in the basic laws of tznius, according to the teachings of our… Read more »

Torah is for ever
Guest
Torah is for ever

B”H Sorry. There is no “past” generation, “modern” “new” ideas. Torah and Mitzvos are for ever (including Tznius). There are basic laws and their violation is a violation of the Torah, if we like it or not. Where is “ego”, there is no place for Me (Hashem). We have to understand that by choosing good and life we make the path for our children. When we behave/eat/wear/etc. like non-Jews how we’re different from them? What’s the point of putting so much effort if in 2 generations our children will say CHAS VESHALOM, I’m not Jewish but my grandma was. We… Read more »

please cut out the drama and grow up already!
Guest
please cut out the drama and grow up already!

If you truly felt you were dressed appropriately, no one could make you cry by saying you are not. Only if deep in your soul you know that the little slit, the lowish neck-line or the detailing that overly emphasizes part of your body, only then, when someone points out that you can only fool a fool, only then, when the charade is over, will you cry. And now, you want pity so you claim the lady said “Hashem doesn’t like you,” she said quietly. “He’s going to punish you for what you are.” Really? Is that a direct quote… Read more »

to 153 "Why"
Guest
to 153 "Why"

because if you pick raisins out of your salad on shabbos, that’s something only you have to answer to Hashem. It’s as is you are drilling a hole in your canoe.
When you dress in an improper manner, you are drilling a hole in the vessel that keeps us all afloat. You potentially cause EVERYONE who sees you to sin, and you CHASE away the Shechina out of our community. You cause damage to Jews all around the world.

truth is BOTH parties are wrong=its a LOSE-LOSE sitch & tznius police?
Guest
truth is BOTH parties are wrong=its a LOSE-LOSE sitch & tznius police?

no such concept.
its SAPD (shulchon oruch police dept)

the remedy here is obviously NOT say/feel negative.
Both parties should learn halacha (with each other ? lol)

u should reacquaint urself with tzniyus laws.
she should learn Ahavas yisrael laws. gamarnu. finito la comedia. to be very clear= there are NO winners & neither are correct in their actions/speech

oh btw, if u cant handle the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
v”dal………

phew
Guest
phew

thats alot of comments! just my thoughts, Everyonw is on there own level, just bc u live in ch doesnt mean u were born in a frum family or a family that keeps tznius maybe the way this girl was dressed was good for her and at her own time she will grow in it by this lady telling her off turned her off and didnt help her grow one bit as we can tell from the article

157
Guest
157

Today’s generation seems to feel that they don’t have to take responsibility for their actions. And that when it is understood that when they are doing something that is not right, the best way to go about life is to BLAME OTHERS.
I would propose that the older woman who came toward the younger woman was trying to do it from a good place. It would appear that it did not come over well.

Suggestion
Guest
Suggestion

How about if you would post various things on tznius – said and written by the Rebbe, from Sichos and Igros, on a daily or weekly basis and this would prove the Rebbe’s stand on this topic.
From the above it is quite obvious how the Rebbe felt about tznius in 5730! What would he have said today?

perfect retort
Guest
perfect retort

The minute this person with boundary issues put a hand on you for the 2nd time and told you what Hashem likes and doesn’t like, you should have said “since you seem to have a direct line to Hashem and he told you he doesn’t like me, did he also tell you when exactly Moshiach is coming???”

How to open the topic in a nice way?
Guest
How to open the topic in a nice way?

I would love to see some posts (or a whole new article) on how to open the topic of tznius in a nice way. I live in a non-Chabad community where most of the women don’t even cover their hair after marriage, and shortly after bat mitzvah the girls start showing up in shul with cleavage and above-the-knee skirts. This is NOT like a Chabad House situation, these are people who keep kosher and mostly keep Shabbos. It hurts me so much to see them cheapening themselves. The mothers don’t set an example for the girls, many also show cleavage… Read more »

Igros/Sichos #162
Guest
Igros/Sichos #162

Yes, Thank you! Chazak v’ametz, halevai we should see that on your home page!

Can COL be the one to initiate it?
There is plenty around now that has been translated into English and ready to be shared.

mental illness
Guest
mental illness

I wish I had the time to read all the comments right now, but I don’t. So I hope I’m not reiterating something mentioned already. A person who is mentally healthy, extremely religious or not, would not accost you in this way. This is an example of a mentally ill person who has lost her ability to control herself. I say this not in a derogatory manner, but because it is important that we see this for what it is. If anything, we can feel sadness for a human being who undoubtedly has multiple dysfunctional aspects in her life. Pity… Read more »

As quoted from a letter of The Rebbe in comment 71
Guest
As quoted from a letter of The Rebbe in comment 71

#164 When the yetzer hora wants something, anything which successfully prevents the yh from achieving it the yh will try to discourage. This includes making a show of being upset to discourage a person who is bringing out an affect the yh doesn’t want. Upsetting someone’s yh is a sign that what is being done is effectual. Sometimes the yh tries to use false “chochmoh” to discourage someone from causing an affect, like using Torah arguments such as Ahavas Yisroel even though they don’t apply since affecting someone not following their yh but rather to follow their YT is Ahavas… Read more »

Opinon 4U
Guest
Opinon 4U

Don’t worry or fear about tznius police.
You must think, worry and fear about Hashem- shamaim.

Oy Vey!
Guest
Oy Vey!

Honestly, I think there are at least a dozen sides to this story and about 1000 different scenarios that could have played out. One such example. Myself at 14 years old. I grew up not orthodox but was spending Shabbos with some Orthodox friends and had a grand total of ONE tznius skirt. It was denim but went past my knees. Not something one wears on Shabbat and I certainly wouldn’t now. When I walked into shul, I was told by some woman that I was a disgrace and that I should be ashamed of myself wearing denim in shul… Read more »

It happened to me too
Guest
It happened to me too

I am considered to dress tsniusdig. Nevertheless, someone came over to me and said, “I don’t know if you are aware but your shirt is see through”. Another time it was a comment on my back neckline being open or that the slits should be sewn down properly. It made me more conscious but didn’t bring 100% correction. Unfortunately, when faced with illness, it made me face and address my shortcomings. I believe that since every day I hear of someone becoming sick , is due to the lack of tznius (which brings opposite of brochos). Perhaps my tsnius imperfection… Read more »

ahavas yisroel
Guest
ahavas yisroel

Treat every frum Jew like you would treat a non frum Jew in a chabad house. Don’t make assumptions based on what school they went to…not everyone ‘gets it’ like you do

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