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Monday, 22 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 27, 2019

    Tznius Booklet Adds Questions

    From the COLlive inbox: We were handed in school a booklet "Dinim for a Yiddishe Summer experience," and we're puzzled. Full Story

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    Legitimate Concerns
    Guest
    Legitimate Concerns

    though Jewish law is not based on Public Opinion

    WOW!!
    Guest
    WOW!!

    So all the Rabbonim Unite in putting out this booklet and you have to create friction.

    Here’s a thought: you read it, you don;t care for it. Put it down and pick up something else.

    camp directors
    Guest
    camp directors

    These psak dinim need to be given to the camp directors who put the girls in these situations in the first place. The girls don’t look for questionable scenarios, they are put in them and then blamed for their behavior from both ends. Either they didn’t do what the camp wanted or they weren’t chassidish enough etc.

    its tznius to talk to a rav
    Guest
    its tznius to talk to a rav

    You will see…once you are married – you talk about all sorts of ‘non-tznius’ things to a rav. And as long as you speak in a refined, non-grobbe way – that is what is expected of us and its ok…its not untznius – its necessary. I cant answer for the halachos in the book…im not a Rav… BUT you should never feel uncomfortable or strange to speak to a Rav. Its a really important part of being a Frum jew – nothign to do with Chasidus, just simple Frumkeit. Rabbanim are our guide and dont be shy-that is a Rav… Read more »

    Someone who cares.
    Guest
    Someone who cares.

    This letter that the rabbonim wrote is something very positive. Sometimes we get lost with the waves and need a little reminder what is right and what is wrong. This is not something to take personnel but just a friendly reminder to all who would like to do the right thing especially now in the summer months. Regarding asking a Rov there is nothing not tznius about calling a rov with a question, which you are likely to find out more once you get a little older. I wish you lots of Hatzlacha in doing the right thing,and being a… Read more »

    CHana
    Guest
    CHana

    Take the initiative and start a discussion with your teacher/mechanaeches etc. and discuss it! Go for it!

    Rabbi
    Guest
    Rabbi

    I don”t understand how you could publish such an article, (written by a teen girl) which clearly undermines everything in the booklet, and the ones who published it.
    I believe you could of found a more respectful way to address this issue.

    parent
    Guest
    parent

    Meidel, i must point out your sensitivity to rabonim, written very respectfully – TO POINT OUT TO THE READERS: I would attribute that to the sentence she slipped in.. “my family isn’t into that” (HALEVAY all of us parents would carefully choose what we say about rabbonim)
    your parents should be proud of you!
    i’m tuched!

    Chaya
    Guest
    Chaya

    Sorry to say, but I feel like you are making an issue out of a tissue! If you have a mashpia you can discuss your questions with her!

    why does booklet "add questions"
    Guest
    why does booklet "add questions"

    You may have gotten used to ambiguity, and wishy washy yiddishkait…
    i read the booklet,it put things very clear. Seems like depends what your looking for, if ur looking for a way out-

    another student
    Guest
    another student

    Cute to see how others took it i liked it, so clear and precise.. well maybe how it was intro – we had a female 🙂 readd thru with us.. she showed us in almost all scennarios thered the halcha and a higher standard we can try for. The real challennge is gonna be in camp when we gotta stay strong! Im hoping that iff all girls got it we can do it together. Well gluck with urs, i think the rabanim wanted to make us aware…-

    i think...
    Guest
    i think...

    I don’t get it we have 613 “do or die’s”
    … just the approach would change if they would teach se girl some chassiduss, and give some guidance regarding how to look at hashem, mizvos etc.
    …my hashemd is not out there with an axe …

    interested...
    Guest
    interested...

    where can i get a copy of the booklet? i’d like to know the halachos too!

    depends on how YOU do it...
    Guest
    depends on how YOU do it...

    “In the back of the booklet there is a guide on “How to call a Rov” which I’m sure is well intentioned. However, do they really expect me and my friends to phone them to discuss personal matters and dilemmas?” Isn’t THAT not tznius?!” A Rav constantly answers so many different questions – their used to it, and if you ask it in an Eidele, sensitive and catious way you dont have to worry about “Non-Tznius talk”. the main thing is, is that you follow his Halachic ruling. listenn to what he tells you. Then youre on the right track… Read more »

    yes we do!
    Guest
    yes we do!

    while probably these issues should be spoken about in schools by a women as you write. It is most definitely appropriate that you discuss these at times personal matters with a rov. It is there professional job and they look at it as such. Just as a woman will at times go to a doctor although they are a male. I understand that there may be discomfort the first time that you ask a question, but a good Rov will do what he can to make you feel as comfortable as possible. Try it….you’ll see that it isn’t as weird… Read more »

    blue in the face
    Guest
    blue in the face

    The Rebbe said it until he was blue in the face. Everyone. Needs. A. Mashpia. For EXACTLY the reasons you bring up. You aren’t expected to call a Rov at this age, but a mashpia is, by definition, someone you have no problem calling anytime. And they will guide you through the grey areas.

    calling the rav
    Guest
    calling the rav

    you wrote:

    “How to call a Rov” which I’m sure is well intentioned. However, do they really expect me and my friends to phone them to discuss personal matters and dilemmas? Isn’t THAT not tznius?!

    no it is not untznius to talk to a rav- even about personal matters… that is what a rav is FOR!!! 🙂 iyh you will one day discuss many different personal topics with a rav 🙂

    but yes i agree 1000-fold that these things need to be DISCUSSED in school, in person, and not just given in a handbook. Though that’s better than nothing.

    cocoaman
    Guest
    cocoaman

    there is NOTHING untznius about calling a Rav.
    there booklet should also be given out to all camp directors, which i think it was. if it was, then EVERYTHING becomes the shliach’s responsibility and that is a HUGE responsibility for his shoulders.

    not real
    Guest
    not real

    any rav who can tell physically and emotionally abused wives to go back to their husbands because theire making it more than it is… is not worth anything. That is what these Rabannim are telling people so I wouldnt read a word they say

    Thoughts
    Guest
    Thoughts

    The thing about halacha is that it is pretty much black and white in certain areas. You are correct, you should have learned this with your halacha teacher in school, but it’s fantastic that someone cared enough about you to coordinate this in order to save you from unknowingly going against halacha.
    Discuss it with your parents and together call your family Rov to ask the specifics.
    Have a healthy and halachically sound summer!

    CH Woman
    Guest
    CH Woman

    Dear CH Girl, The Rebbe once said that halacha is the most important subject to be learned in school. If you think about it, it makes the most sense! To know how to learn chumash, not everyone is up to, not to mention sichos, navi or even inyonei geula umoshiach! However, halacha: every single yid needs to know in order to live his or her life according the proper derech! I am sorry that you were not provided with a knowledgeable female teacher who could instruct you in halacha, and I am aware that it is a serious issue. For… Read more »

    Boys
    Guest
    Boys

    Is there a similar booklet available for boys? I remember when I used to go to Gan Izzy camp, I couldn’t stand when the older boys would walk around without shirts (just an undershirt/singlet and tzitzis). Yet no-one seemed to have a problem with it.
    Thanks for your article, unfortunately I don’t have any answers to your questions.

    Top Down Approach
    Guest
    Top Down Approach

    When our own Principals, Directors, Teachers and Chabad (women) leaders will follow the proper guidelines of tznius as clearly outlined in Shulchan Oruch and emphasized so greatly by the Rebbe then the Bnos Chabad will surely follow.

    to number 15
    Guest
    to number 15

    using that terminology in reference to the Rebbe is pretty disrespectful

    asher
    Guest
    asher

    i clearly remember hearing the Rebbe speak to women about tznius on detail. in middle of the sicha the Rebbe started too explain why he has to speak about These things its really the job of rabbonim to speak about and enforce but the Rebbe went on to lament the fact that rabbonim are intimidated to speak about these things because is not comfortable.
    who taught the women the halachos that they need to know if not Moishe Rabbeinu.
    ‘ko sagid livais yaakov’
    ‘yiftach bidoiroi kishmhsl bidoiroi’
    this premise of this op–ed hours against the grain of much of what ChZal taught

    im a high school girl but not from crown heights
    Guest
    im a high school girl but not from crown heights

    where can i get one of those booklets?

    oooooh get a mashipa....
    Guest
    oooooh get a mashipa....

    oooooh u really need one…
    macaroni, spaghetti… mashpia is the thing u need….

    why is it that
    Guest
    why is it that

    everytime things are clarified in the best possible way, there are those who wish to create the illusion of confusin, in order to feel more comfortable with the status quo? i read the booklet, and things are clear. what is you are faced with the situation in wich a not-so-g.d-fearing shliach asks you (or forces you) to transgess any of these halochos? simple, tell him you cannot, and tell him that it is against halocho. and you have a question, yes, do as it says in the booklet, call a rov, one of those listed on the booklet or any… Read more »

    7 hours a day sitting in a school.......and when it comes to every day ikrim.......
    Guest
    7 hours a day sitting in a school.......and when it comes to every day ikrim.......

    thanks for speaking up! you are on the right road! what is more important to get from a chasidishe school today if not preparation for real everyday things that come up? yrs ago I asked the Rebbe if to go to an overnight camp or a day camp, I was surprised at His answer, that surely I spoke this over with the hanhole! so they definalty do have a shaychus with what our youth do in the summer! and therefore I would say its great to teach so many subjects in Torah even gemoreh to girls today, but isnt it… Read more »

    Longtime female counselor
    Guest
    Longtime female counselor

    camp rabbis & directors!!!
    STOP putting girls in these sitiations!
    START implementing these halachos in your camps!
    Thesr are ORGANIZATIONAL scenarios that the girls are oblivious to and have no control over
    I was once put in a situation of being IN the pool at a waterpark with 12 year old boys AND THE RABBI it was very uncomfortable and I.could not leavr because the boys needed another adult in the pool

    The Rav and the Mashpia
    Guest
    The Rav and the Mashpia

    Dear CH Girl, Good for you for speaking up. I just want to say not to be afraid of talking to a Rav about ANYTHING, but anything you need to know about halacha. Before Gimmel Tammuz, I had many answers from the Rebbe to consult a Rav who paskens halacha. There is nothing of a personal nature that the Rav hasn’t heard before. (And in the very rare case that he hasn’t heard it before, he’ll kindly tell you that he will look up the answer and get back to you.) Of course, a mashpia is very important as well.… Read more »

    ad mosai to push other plp´s questions down???? lack of basic ahavas Yisroel.......
    Guest
    ad mosai to push other plp´s questions down???? lack of basic ahavas Yisroel.......

    if a young girl comes up with such questions, how can anyone criticize her as if what is bothering her is not important??? (to say the least, beloshon delicate) and then we are surprised at all the lack of yiras shomaim later on in life? why would anyone with any normal feelings ever dare to air her question again to adults who answer as if she is being stupid or whatever word you want to use, those who make her sound not intelligent with theese questions! this happens way to often between us in all different scenerios. lets be more… Read more »

    beautiful booklet
    Guest
    beautiful booklet

    Incredible initiative whoever put it out! To everyone else worth getting your haands on! I heard that all lubavitch highschools got it- ask ur principal to find out! Tha nks again whoever organized this! –

    Beautiful!
    Guest
    Beautiful!

    BS”D
    I am SO HAPPY the Rabbonim Sheyichyu all got together for this! I would be proud to say that all of them be on the official Beis Din to make decisions for the CH community and help with Chabad worldwide!

    Whats all the critisicm against this girl?!?!??
    Guest
    Whats all the critisicm against this girl?!?!??

    Do the yeshivos/ girls schools really teach the importance of having a mashpia and asking questions to rav?? Do they explain why it is needed?? Do they teach the bochurim and girls that there is nothing to be shy about?? Are tge mashpiim in todays yeshivos in tune with todays kids or are they in space just telling bochurim to learn sichos and go on mivtzoim?? The answer to all these questions in NO NO NO!!! The schools don’t teach these important PRACTICAL stuff. The mashpiim are in heaven spacing out in some maamer. IT IS TIME TO START RELATING… Read more »

    some one
    Guest
    some one

    yes i agree we need teachers to be on the same page as the students.tznius is not taught well for girls

    question
    Guest
    question

    Does it really say in the booklet that singing on the bus is compared to chillul shabbos? I would be very surprised as chillul shabbos is compared to idol worship (today’s chitas – rashi), wheras when girls sing together and there is a male driver, though not an ideal situation and possibly against halacha (I’m not a rav but if that’s what it says in book, ok)…………… I don’t understand how we can compare that with chillul shabbos. Can someone explain?

    please
    Guest
    please

    could someone tell me please how to get a copy of the pamphlet?

    Good questions!
    Guest
    Good questions!

    To the young girl who wrote this letter: You are 100% right in asking questions, any questions! That is one of the great things about our religion! A few points: -Yes writing a tznius booklet like it is all “do or die” is problematic. The reality is not like that at all. When I went to high school, we learned what is minhag, halacha for different communities, etc. and how the mesorah of halacha came to be. I have a much better understanding and respect this way. The problem for some people in this community would be, is you could… Read more »

    to #37
    Guest
    to #37

    I read the book cover to cover- NO it does not compare them

    My take: However, As Shabbos is important to Hashem, so is Tznius -the foundation of the Yiddishe Home-)
    If that is halocha, and its assur, then its like chilul shabbos

    Only Hashem decides which will be chayov Skila and which one is chayav Kores- and for this “only” a Korban Chatos…

    Thanks for understanding…

    How to get booklet?
    Guest
    How to get booklet?

    In the end of the booklet there is a email address: VNIFLINU@gmail.com

    send them an email, I’m sure they’ll send back

    DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT “VNIFLINU” MEANS????

    responsibility, credibility, transparancy, accountability, safety
    Guest
    responsibility, credibility, transparancy, accountability, safety

    All Chabad camps should be accountable to one central organisation that will ensure that all camps treat their counsellors in a responsible fashion, ensuring their physical and spiritual safety and well-being.

    why keep Shabbos AND not sing
    Guest
    why keep Shabbos AND not sing

    “What if we don’t have a choice in a certain scenario? Singing on a bus is compared to chilul shabbos? My friends and I have so many questions.”

    The latter question demonstrates an attitude where halachos of tzniyus can be arbitrarily ignored. Rethink your questions!

    Co director
    Guest
    Co director

    We need a booklet for camp directors. They don’t always realize what is appropriate, as they have a camp to run, and things have become the norm, that shouldn’t be.

    Where can i get this booklet?
    Guest
    Where can i get this booklet?

    So usefule!!

    I am so very relieved
    Guest
    I am so very relieved

    Dear COL, can you please send us a downloadable file?

    talking to a rov
    Guest
    talking to a rov

    Everyone is responding to your statement “talking to a rov is not tznius” but they’re not addressing how you feel about it.

    The reason someone can feel “its not tznius to talk to a rov about personal matters”, i believe is because;

    A) you’ve been tought for years “not to talk to boys” without explination of what that means and y

    B) talking about personal/sensetive/ phisical matters is highly frowned uppon in our community

    I think those are the questions that you’re looking for answers to. You’ve got a point.

    To number 39
    Guest
    To number 39

    Well said – thank you!!! You are so right that halacha, minhag, chumras, and madreigos are need to be addressed when explaining what to do and what not to do. And adults should realise that with the clarity of the nuences of keeping the law, their students will have the tools to make the right choices!

    I was soooo happy
    Guest
    I was soooo happy

    It was in all the CH shuls last shabbos!

    wow you guys dont get the point at all!
    Guest
    wow you guys dont get the point at all!

    she is not bashing the booklet or saying she disagrees with its content.
    all she wants to know is, why they dont teach this in school and why its a hand out that says “any questions call a rav” she would rather have the school teach it and know that her first introduction when having a question is not call a rav but rather i, the teacher am here to help you….

    PPPLLLLEEEEAASEE
    Guest
    PPPLLLLEEEEAASEE

    Every girl who wants to post, represents the Public opinion???

    When S/O reads this, they think – thats lubavitch…

    How in the world does this girls Op. sound lubavitch.??

    sad
    Guest
    sad

    Life is hard enough without making yourself mesuggah worrying about what happens if I guy/girl starts singing on a bus. Take comfort that all the Torah learning will lead you in the right direction

    Directors
    Guest
    Directors

    Where are they? Most of the time they are the ones putting the girls in awkward situations. My daughter, at 16, was a counselor for 11 year old boys. During swimming time when she didn’t want to go into the pool (for personal reasons) her director physically pushed her in! Great booklet, but the directors should be forced to take courses before camp on how to act Tzniusdik and al pi halacha.

    Hershel
    Guest
    Hershel

    There are 2 (and many more) relationships we have with Hashem. 1 of them is Hashem is our King, and we do what He tells us to. In this relationship tying your shoe left before your right shoe is just as important as shmiras/chilul shabbos. 2nd in the relationship that Hshem is like our Father everything we do is dependent on how well we know him, how much we care about him, and what we feel we like doing. In this relationship you can’t have a booklet telling you what is right and what is wrong. If you want to… Read more »

    oish
    Guest
    oish

    my tzniustik aidel, how you are such a honor and reward to your parents. my kinder, you will go to great heights continue to be a good girl to ur parents and make the rebbe proud.

    moshiach now my little potato kugel!

    rate camps after camp
    Guest
    rate camps after camp

    i think that schools should give the girls that were counselors at least and maybe also campers, a questionnaire after camp to pinpoint where there was a mistake according to the book and when they had no choice but to be in a situation where there was a big challenge to something wrong or when they where told explicitly to do something wrong etc. then schools mashpiim and parents will have a chance to ask the people in charge to fix things or be put in a black list, together with those that dont treat counselors well etc. i would… Read more »

    Thank you for the booklet!
    Guest
    Thank you for the booklet!

    This booklet is really timely and we hope it gets to one and all! There were some questions asked which I feel need answers coming from the classroom. Often we are taught things not mentioning that they are minhugim simply because then we erroniously believe that we can posken on our own and decide. We must know that to each of us a minhag has a status of a halacha, we can not choose according to our comfort. While when learning things in depth we should be given a broader understanding to have the knowledge whether that is a geder,… Read more »

    wow.. go read the booklet
    Guest
    wow.. go read the booklet

    it was just posted!

    this is good for working only with frummies
    Guest
    this is good for working only with frummies

    the booklet is not reality when it comes to bringing Jews back to Yiddishkiet, believe me I know from experience and BH the girls my kids had many years ago were very good eidel girls and did some of the not to do things and BH it all turned out good

    singing with the rabbi around
    Guest
    singing with the rabbi around

    Ok, practically speaking, I just cant imagine how this pans out.
    Every time the Rabbi walks into the room, all the girls suddenly stop singing their cheer song….. someone needs to explain to these rabbanim how camps run. Rabbi Telsner was our camp Rabbi in London and I certainly don’t remember it being an issue then.

    no. 55 - you had me in fits of laughter. Thanks.. I needed that!
    Guest
    no. 55 - you had me in fits of laughter. Thanks.. I needed that!
    To 59
    Guest
    To 59

    This booklet is absolutely addressed to people working with not-yet-frum kids. There are, believe it or not halachic guidelines for such situations as well. As to your comment about how people do things against halacha and turned out well… you never ever know another persons situation to be able to pass such a judgement. Halacha is clear, and disregarding halacha is simply not an option. There may be room for heterim, but to disregard halacha, even in the name of bringing people closer to yiddishkeit…!?!?

    To 61 and 55
    Guest
    To 61 and 55

    You both are clearly not parents!
    and definitely have zero Achrayus …

    Wish you both with my full heart -luck and Mainly stability and healthy spiritual growth before you find your match…

    @ 59
    Guest
    @ 59

    You definitely need to get your priorities straight… Is there a separate Shulchan Aruch fur bringing Yidden back to Yidishkeit ?!!
    Who are you decide that it worked out well? I can tell you from first hand experiences that every summer hundreds of counselors decline in their yidishkeit! and its all because of attitudes like yours!

    I'm now a proud community member!
    Guest
    I'm now a proud community member!

    So beautiful !
    Jjoining with other Lubavitche communities Toronto, Melbourne, and Lodon

    Tznius Booklet ??
    Guest
    Tznius Booklet ??

    After reading the article more than once, and having read through numerous comments, there was finally one comment that pointed out that the booklet has nothing to do with tznius. Believe it or not, the article was titled “Tznius Booklet adds questions…”- they called it a TZNIUS booklet! And not one halacha is directly tznius! (maybe the bathing suit one, but still, to call it a tznius booklet?) I don’t know if it’s a sub-conscious cry to have such a thing about tznius, or if people automatically link halacha with tznius… Anyway, that blew me away. I’m still trying to… Read more »

    To 60
    Guest
    To 60

    Unless cheering is more important than halachah, then yes!
    The rabbonim clearly say that, although the young kids could continue. If what we do is not in accordance with halachah, we have to change what we do – not halachah. The rabbonim are just saying the halachos. It doesn’t matter if EVERY SINGLE CAMP does it one way – if it’s wrong it’s wrong. Tell the camp rabbis and directors, maybe they’ll stop doing it.

    To 61
    Guest
    To 61

    No problem anytime, that’s my goal in this world!
    And to number 63 get a life I was playing around and not being serious. And I already know who I’m gonna marry but thanks for the comment!

    to #41
    Guest
    to #41

    You ask what “v’niflinu” means. The source is Shmos 33:16 when Moshe said to Hashem, “I and Your people shall be differentiated.” As the Rebbe puts it, “When any one of the students of Tomchei Temimim walks down the street, it should be apparent that he is somewhat differentiated from the world around him.” It’s an expression of pride. We are different. We do things on a higher spiritual plane.

    Must see this video!
    Guest
    Must see this video!

    The story of Kos shel brocho -23 Tishrei 5747

    http://www.chabad.org/1547902

    (quoted in booklet Question #2 See the end of footnote 5)

    CLICKING THE LINK WON’T WORK, copy it and paste into the address bar

    VIDEO: Rebbe's sensitivity With standing for Halocha
    Guest
    VIDEO: Rebbe's sensitivity With standing for Halocha

    Wow, What a video! see the Rebbe’s sensitivity- while standing for halocha! 60 and whoever else… SEE THAT VIDEO it doesn’t seem like her voice was heard by anyone else… thus i’m sure you will now agree with what the rabbonim wrote In Question # 3. (Is there any difference if – it is one girl alone or it is a group of girls- singing in front of a man?) “While there is a minority view that makes a distinction between a single girl singing and a group of girls singing, the general consensus in halacha is that no difference… Read more »

    The rebbe on Tznius...
    Guest
    The rebbe on Tznius...

    … על פי שולחן ערוך מבת ג’ ויום אחד כבר צריכה להתנהג בצניעות וק”ו לבת עשר ויותר…
    אבל שלא להכביד עול… ולדבר בדרכי נועם.
    (Quote from Lekutei Sichos vol.18 pg. 448)

    no need to add.. this says it all!

    Regarding the Lekutei Sichos quote
    Guest
    Regarding the Lekutei Sichos quote

    sir, Regarding that quote. from lekutei sichos…

    See Yechidus of Rabbi Drukman:
    “ask the Rabonim of each place”
    http://www.col.org.il/show_news.rtx?artID=29678

    #73 comment
    Guest
    #73 comment

    You can easily translate to English using chrome translate bar,
    Its pretty accurate

    To #30
    Guest
    To #30

    To #30 – I hope you had on your momosh stunning shvim klyd!

    All joking aside, as many commented already, the responsibility is first and foremost on the camp director and shluchim to set the camp up in a way that conforms with halacha.

    To #59 – The approach of Chabad has always been (and should remain) to bring Jews up to the standards of halacha and the Rebbe not the opposite. If it wasn’t done that way in camps until now it is not a reason for not fixing the issues going forward. That is what teshuva is all about.

    Dovid

    so not appropriate
    Guest
    so not appropriate

    Why do the Rabbanim- MEN, who do NOT have to abide by the specific laws for women, write this?? It should be taught to the girls by WOMEN who are in the same situation. I have absolutely no respect for these Rabbanim talking about Tznius. They have their own laws of Tznius. A woman should talk to a woman. Not in a matter of tznius, just in the simple matter of EXPERIENCE. NONE of these Rabbis has ex[erience as a girl on a bus…or bathing suits… I just don’t get why these men are telling the teenagers what to do.… Read more »

    not appropriate?? #76
    Guest
    not appropriate?? #76

    you yourself write that you speak to rabanim when you need to about women issues pertaining to halacha- why not a woman rav? Rabanim have authority in Torah, also for women, it’s been that way since the time of Moshe Rabeinu. Also in regards to their dress. The halachos of tznius were put down by the chachamim (much of it women accepted on themselves before then). The way you commented on a booklet it seems you barely read – surprises me. The Rabanim wrote these halachos based on experiences speaking with women who spent years in camp, and the booklet… Read more »

    ear plugs
    Guest
    ear plugs

    Read this booklet… it suggests a male bus driver can wear earplugs whilst driving to stop him hearing the girls singing. Are these Rabbonim for real? It is unsafe and dangerous to other road users! What a ridiculous suggestion. Commonsense please!

    X