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Monday, 14 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 17, 2019

    Time To Rethink the First Date

    From the COLlive inbox: "The first Shidduch date tends to be long, serious, expensive and emotionally draining. Here's an alternative." Full Story

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    bochur
    Guest
    bochur

    I am always before a first date not to take more then 2 hours 3 the max

    question
    Guest
    question

    Can the coffee have alcohol in it on a coffee date?

    The reason we're here
    Guest
    The reason we're here

    Chabad is very much adverse to change, but there was a small time in the fifties that we allowed ourselves to advance a bit. This basically got us stuck in the sixties style of dating, don’t mess with it, its charming.

    The lazy approach?  I think not!
    Guest
    The lazy approach? I think not!

    You want to see the “best” on a first date. Lowering the bar creates excuses and midiocraty. Have a coffee date with your co-worker. With your potential life partner its a good thing to give it your all.

    brilliant idea
    Guest
    brilliant idea

    This can be arranged through your shadchan. That’s what I did. (That’s why I titled this comment brilliant idea, I did it too!)
    Much success finding your barshert.

    Another guy
    Guest
    Another guy

    Thank you for writing this. Been wishing this was the accepted standard for a long time. Making the first meeting a big, serious, “to-do” — with a larger than necessary emotional, financial, mental, and temporal investment — means that I have to do more “filtering” before meeting anyone (and I presume the girl does as well). Which is unfair to everyone, because we all know how little you really know about a person before meeting them. Unfortunately, even though there are certainly many girls who don’t need — or even particularly want — a fancy first date, the fact remains… Read more »

    Not enough time to get to know each other
    Guest
    Not enough time to get to know each other

    The Rebbe never promoted “coffee dates”. I understand your point but it was never encouraged in Lubavitch to have a date in a restaurant. Plus a quick chat over a cup of coffee will not give you a good overview of how things are working out between you and the other side.
    Put your work life aside and concentrate on the importance of spending time together and giving it the proper effort.

    Once upon a time...
    Guest
    Once upon a time...

    In the ’80’s when I was dating, I had a few first dates at the homes of married couples. The hostess would seat us at the table in the dining room (which had a closed door), set out a plate of cake and coffee/cold drinks, and leave us to chat. She’d occasionally open the door and come in to prevent yichud. The dates lasted 2 hours or so, and this was a free date for the bochur that took away a lot of the usual dating stress. Then again, all involved were out-of-towners with no family in Crown Heights. Still,… Read more »

    To #4
    Guest
    To #4

    A 40 minute drive followed by an awkward coke in a hotel lobby is not “your all” (and that’s basically the standard right now, at least in NYC).

    You’re not supposed to give “your all” to every date, that would be 1: irresponsible with your time, money, and sanity, 2: unsustainable, and 3: intimidating to the other party.

    You’re supposed to have the right mindset, that you’re involved in a mitzvah, that every date is a potential mate, etc. But a date is supposed to be reasonable and respectable, not a gantze megillah.

    Love it
    Guest
    Love it

    First date should not be a long one. Youre just meeting for the first time, it should be relaxed and simple.

    To Number 3
    Guest
    To Number 3

    It is charming. And exhausting. I have heard from far too many guys about how they dread the thought of going on another series of dates, (even though they’re doing it for all the right reasons and with all the right intentions).

    Chani
    Guest
    Chani

    This has happened before to me

    Another person with the name yizchok
    Guest
    Another person with the name yizchok

    I think the style of dating in and of itself would show whether or not its a match. If the other party is appalled at just the thought( insert Aussie accent) then its not meant to be mate.
    Based on the practical standpoint of an older couple dating, who have jobs and have been through the routine- perfect.

    I agree
    Guest
    I agree

    Night out @ chocolatte!!

    To #12
    Guest
    To #12

    Oh yes i remember that you thought you had her in your back pocket so unfortunate maybe next time maybe just don’t be on what’s app the whole time

    Set Your Priorities
    Guest
    Set Your Priorities

    A shidduch is likely, going to be the most important decision you’re going to make in your life, why in the world would you shortchange it? If you don’t have the time to put your best foot forward then you might not be ready to date yet. Things that matter take effort and you’ll most certainly get what you put in. I was already working and single. I would finish a 10 hour day at the office, freshen up, and go out on a three hour date without a thought. From there I had a 45 minute drive home but… Read more »

    WOMAN not girl...
    Guest
    WOMAN not girl...

    You shouldn’t be dating any girls. However if you choose to have a coffee date with a woman that can be an excellent start!

    what're exactly will you go on a coffee date?
    Guest
    what're exactly will you go on a coffee date?

    Which kosher cafe are you going to go to where you don’t bump into everyone you know?
    In the city where i live there aren’t too many options so not practical if you want to be inconspicuous

    Yes new way to dating!!!
    Guest
    Yes new way to dating!!!

    That new fancy falafel store!!!!

    To number 7
    Guest
    To number 7

    the Rebbe never promoted “Marriott dates” either.

    You make a innocent smart idea fit how you think of the writer and then bash the idea. Relax, breath in. His point makes sense for many reasons.
    Oh BTW no one said go to a restaurant anywhere in the article, and a hotel lobby has coffee and drinks just like a coffee shop.

    Do you only date where/how your parents dated to the nices? my parents dated in the world trade center, isn’t a option anymore, maybe that’s why i’m 29 and single!

    With love,
    Good Shabbos

    Agree and I'm a girl
    Guest
    Agree and I'm a girl

    Totally agree. High standard first dates are so not necessary. But what is necessary, is that, even that didn’t date should be taken seriously, as if this person may be your spouse. To look at it as just another meet and greet, and unless your head over heels it’s gonna be a no, then this coffee date idea should go out the window.

    My wife
    Guest
    My wife

    I went out with at least 20 women before I met my wife. I asked references all about the woman before going out. Waited and waited for shadchanim to set me up. I found my wife on an orthodox website. I decided, if i have any questions, i would ask only her. So happy I stopped being a sheep, grow up and think for myself. Thank Hashem, found the most beautiful woman and person in the world, my wife. Enjoy the coffee

    I don't like coffee
    Guest
    I don't like coffee
    agree with 4
    Guest
    agree with 4

    This is a serious decision, give it your all! For a guy, it may be enough, he needs to meet the girl for 20 minutes to know it he wants to see her again. A girl has more depth than that…she needs to see his character and personality. 2 hours, will not do that.

    and to the girls
    Guest
    and to the girls

    I was an old girl in the 80’s and tired of dating. Someone gave me very good advice. “You may be tired of dating ,and don’t feel like getting dressed up for every date, but pretend you are dressing up for your own Lechaim” Had I not dressed up for the guy that I ended up marrying, we may never have made it past the first date…

    We Met Over A Danish And Coffee
    Guest
    We Met Over A Danish And Coffee

    After writing to the Rebbe for a Brocho for the Shiduch I was embarking on I took my wife to a nice bakery in 5 towns. BH we are now grandparents. It most certainly can be done in an appropriate chassidshe fashion.

    Only Coffee Dates
    Guest
    Only Coffee Dates

    I almost exclusively went on coffee dates. Better yet i like round the block dates. Get in the car realize not shaich go around the block to dropped back off. If your trying to see if your compatible don’t go to a resturant or place where you’re auto distracted go where you have to talk and have a conversation.

    One size, does not fit all.
    Guest
    One size, does not fit all.

    I have had first dates by phone, which lasted hours, and then led to, meeting in person (granted this was with girls who I had to travel out of town to meet once we agreed, it was worth the time, effort and expense). Other dates were just traveling to Manhattan and walking around, as long as we felt comfortable being with each other, and as long as we felt we each still had things to say or questions to ask. I think there should not be any set standard for how long the date should last, or that it ‘must’… Read more »

    Everyone do what they are comfortable with!
    Guest
    Everyone do what they are comfortable with!

    To me, it is interesting that this is a topic of concern in the first place. We live in the 21st century, which is a good thing, in the fact that we can all make individual choices about what we are comfortable with and our personalities. Years ago the traditional hotel lobby date was the norm, but I really don’t think it is anymore! I’ve been on plenty of dates and most of them have been casual but focussed, at a bar, at starbucks, or a walk.. casual dress but heels, etc, no stress involved, and I would hazard to… Read more »

    Number 8
    Guest
    Number 8

    That’s how my first-ever date was. In November (or so) 2007.

    Cheap!!!
    Guest
    Cheap!!!

    Cheap!!!

    Do what works for you - just let the other party know
    Guest
    Do what works for you - just let the other party know

    It’s more a matter of your mindset than the place and price of the date. You can go for coffee or even a walk in the park, so long as you let your date know in advance. My daughter was taken to a coffee shop – and she was all dressed up. The date lasted 3 hours and was very pleasant. She ended up recommending the bochur to a friend. My son told his wife, “dress casual, chilled first date.” Worked great! Both were comfortable and got to know each other without EXTRA stress. After the 2nd date, price and… Read more »

    Yehuda  l g
    Guest
    Yehuda l g

    I was told a lot for a first DATe but never a coffee at least you were merited the date g d willing next time it will be a real coffee buyer

    make sure
    Guest
    make sure

    Make sure the milk is Cholov Yisroel

    circumstance
    Guest
    circumstance

    I believe everything depends on how the couple going out feels about it.
    It also depends on how far the bochur had to travel to date the girl. If they’re local, then a coffee should be fine because they can date more with ease. However, if the bochur has to fly a couple of hours, they may want to go the formal way so they can know eachother more from fewer dates.

    Love it, just bring mints if it's coffee
    Guest
    Love it, just bring mints if it's coffee

    I have been saying this from the beginning! Some bochurim are so nervous by all the pretention of the date and I sometimes have to overlook many things because “maybe it was just nerves?” I believe that more than 2 hours on a first date will not accomplish any more. It’s a first impression, not a relationship-building session. The unpretentious atmosphere of a coffee shop would also hopefully get the daters into a comfortable place where they feel they can be themselves.

    @34
    Guest
    @34

    Or drink it black

    Coffee dates
    Guest
    Coffee dates

    I remember when I was young man in the 40’s my grandfather told me to go to the local fish store and buy some herring and we met over herring and coffee and now we’re great grandparents you see it can be done in a chassidishe way not all fancy shmancy

    Four hours?!
    Guest
    Four hours?!

    Who on earth told you to go on four hour first dates?? That is agony for everyone involved. First date should be 2 hours, max!

    to Number 19
    Guest
    to Number 19

    I am not sure if taking a girl there on a first coffee date would be a good idea, the place does not have a taste of Jerusalem which is how they advertised it.
    They don’t have the crispy fried eggplant or cabbage or chips like you would get in Jerusalem.

    What if
    Guest
    What if

    What if I hate coffee??

    Pedant
    Guest
    Pedant

    I married in Eretz Yisroel about 16 years ago and the process was/is very similar to what you described. Every single date I had was a hotel lobby or a 3rd party’s living room, or somewhere very similar to that (a coffee place fits the bill). And at least at the time, that was common. No date lasted for much more than 2 hours (until after we agreed to marry). I generally had figured out someway to have a set time around which I had to end the data, which I made known near its beginning, because, I simply don’t… Read more »

    Oy
    Guest
    Oy

    First the Eruv now They want to change this too!

    Just do your own thing
    Guest
    Just do your own thing

    There are no hilchos dating. As long as you do it in a tzanua fashion and are careful with yichud and the like, date on your own terms. You can talk on the phone. You can chat on social media. You can have dates as long or as short, as simple or as fancy as you wish. These “traditions” may seem set in stone but they only go back 50 years or so. Decide which questions are important to YOU, not your mother, sister and grandmother. You don’t need an FBI level background check and often the shidduch “research” isn’t… Read more »

    Cheap
    Guest
    Cheap

    I think this “coffee” date man is CHEAP. For the meet and greet woman that he saw the photo of and is unsure about, she gets the coffee date, NO man would take his dream girl for “coffee”. SORRY

    how much did Chocolatte pay you to write this article
    Guest
    how much did Chocolatte pay you to write this article

    i would like to know

    YES
    Guest
    YES

    Yes, Yes and Yes! Been saying this ever since I started the process!

    Wonderful idea!
    Guest
    Wonderful idea!

    You can get a sense of a person in 2 hours, to decide if you want to explore further! I have wanted to offer my home and/or garden for a casual first date to help avoid the shlepping and expense.

    Who said first date has to be 4 hours
    Guest
    Who said first date has to be 4 hours

    Maybe I am ancient. But when I went out on my first date, I do not think it was more than 2 hours and guess what we are happily married twentysome years later. You don’t need a fancy shmantzy impress fakeness, just get to know each other etc. I once was a go between for a shidduch, after the first date the girl says, it’s not for me, I don’t think he was interested either. i said why not? She said the date lasted only 2 hours…guess what they are married now for 10 years ka”h. I am all for… Read more »

    Are you well?
    Guest
    Are you well?

    Are you out of your mind???? People like you are the reason for the shidduch crisis!!!!! People trying to change why worked for thousands of years!!!!!! Me and my husband are great grandparents now and we wouldn’t have been if I hadn’t dressed up by my first date!!!!!

    What you put in, you will take out...
    Guest
    What you put in, you will take out...

    It sounds like you have no interest in putting the effort that it takes to date and date properly! A girl wants you to put some energy into this life changing exchange. You’re not going to get the results without putting in the effort…you’re losing the feeling, the importance of it all.

    Wonderful idea!
    Guest
    Wonderful idea!

    You can get a sense of a person in 2 hours, to decide if you want to explore further! I have wanted to offer my home and/or garden for a casual first date to help avoid the shlepping and expense.

    @43
    Guest
    @43

    ” Oy
    First the Eruv now They want to change this too! ”

    next you think you know the guy will stop going on Tahalucha!

    From a girls perspective
    Guest
    From a girls perspective

    There are many things a woman looks for in a guy when choosing a future husband. A big one is security including financial security. It’s hard to make a good first impression on a girl by being cheap.

    IMPORTANT MESSAGE
    Guest
    IMPORTANT MESSAGE

    I wana give a shout out to the boys in shidduchim. I am an older single and I’ve dated like 15 boys over the past 5 years. Every time a shidduch ends there is some pain on both sides of the story. I can imagine how frustrating it can be for the guys: firstly, girls are very hard to read, and very emotional, which can be uncomfortable when things clash, secondly, the boys are the ones arranging the dates and paying for it all, trying to set the stage for a pleasant experience. There’s a lot that the boys have… Read more »

    To #24
    Guest
    To #24

    I’m a girl, and I can get a decent idea of his personality within two hours. Probably even less. Definitely enough to know if a person is worth spending more time with, or if it’s better to move on.

    Oh, and I’m married. B”H…

    #42 you're on point
    Guest
    #42 you're on point

    #42 you’re smart and you’re right
    (Recently a guy I dated got offended by my request to start heading home at 11pm)
    SHKOYACH for some common sense which is not so common

    Go at your OWN pace
    Guest
    Go at your OWN pace

    There’s no one way to work the Shidduch system. It’s important for singles to take initiative for what they want (now what their parents, siblings or friends want). You are the one marrying the guy, no one else! So if you and your date are comfortable going for coffe, go for coffe. If you want to go to a garden or park or hotel lobby, do that. As long as you BOTH agree that that is where you want to date. Guys, ask your date where she wants to go and girls, tell him where you feel comfortable going. Of… Read more »

    Inda Know
    Guest
    Inda Know

    OK. So make it two cups of coffee! Take your time, but go casual … and cheep.

    Yes!
    Guest
    Yes!

    This whole shidduch thing has become uber ridiculous! Firstly who decided that going to a HOTEL lobby is a tznius first date!!! I am actually having a difficult time thinking of a worse location. Why invest a ridiculous amount of energy to “know someone” you never met?! Why not meet first?! To singles, use your OWN judgement sometimes! your parents prob got married at least 20 something years ago, this whole system is ludicrous! I know plenty of people that just don’t go out cause its just so ridiculously much. Why not let them meet over some coffee for a… Read more »

    I have to enter a title, but don't really know what to name this :-)
    Guest
    I have to enter a title, but don't really know what to name this :-)

    I really think that everyone has the right to do whatever they believe is the right way of doing things. Everyone on here has an opinion bH, and noone seems to actually want to change it 🙂 Everyone will end up doing what they feel is right. The guy that wrote this has a point, as most people in the comments do (I’ll be honest, didn’t read them all). Definitely good to get the ideas out there so we could maybe have an impact on one single individual (not necessarily single meant as like with no partner yet ;)). But… Read more »

    I have to enter a title, but don't really know what to name this :-)
    Guest
    I have to enter a title, but don't really know what to name this :-)

    I really think that everyone has the right to do whatever they believe is the right way of doing things. Everyone on here has an opinion bH, and noone seems to actually want to change it 🙂 Everyone will end up doing what they feel is right. The guy that wrote this has a point, as most people in the comments do (I’ll be honest, didn’t read them all). Definitely good to get the ideas out there so we could maybe have an impact on one single individual (not necessarily single meant as like with no partner yet ;)). But… Read more »

    just married
    Guest
    just married

    our first date was a coffee date. 🙂

    X