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Tuesday, 14 Heshvan, 5780
  |  November 12, 2019

The “Girl Shopping” Bochur

4 clues how to spot the "shopping" bochurim in the shidduchim scene to avoid heartache and save yourself time and money. Full Story

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Awesome!
Guest
Awesome!

Luv it, and I am a married male. Whatever happened to basic common decency, and proper social etiquette? Isn’t that the essence of Chassidus?

marrying older girl
Guest
marrying older girl

men who marry a girl who is the same ago or even a year or two older have a happier life and a more successful marriage
but it takes a really good man to see that. the ones who date 100 girls are obviously not very good bocherim. at least character wise

Amazing!
Guest
Amazing!

so true and to the point!!!
hint #5 – i wish i could name all the shopping males to save single girls so much time and effort!!!

Lacking.....
Guest
Lacking.....

These young men are products of their ” upbringing”.
Their behavior is tolerated and encouraged by their parents.
If this is what you’re willing to tolerate , it can only get worse as time goes on.
and chas veshalom you marry someone with such poor midos… Uch its a rachmonos.

Thank You,
Guest
Thank You,

Well said and unfortunately, evolving into a big issue in our community.

chayaf
Guest
chayaf

very true..there really is little to do at this point, as it seems that the dye has been set. The men here in the community view the young women like a conveyor belt. It will truly be a rachamnus from the abershder to help out here. You know, when I get really frustrated, we just have to scream at the “third partner” to help…one article recently from a rabbi in the community wanted to initiate some “punitive measures” on these type of men for what they are doing to the young women…they should not be accepted or judged gently for… Read more »

wow
Guest
wow

As an amateur shaschan this is 100% true, I wish I would have been this articulated so well little while ago I would’ve saved some of the girls i introduced some heartache.
Will add that quite a bit of the problem is the mothers of the boys, that set up unrealistic expectations of the type of girl they want for their son.

And what about girls?
Guest
And what about girls?

Sorry but it works both ways. I personally know 3 guys who are ready to get married yet the girls aren’t ready to commit. So dont just call out the guys, girls also have what to work on. We are in this together, so if there is a problem on one side, chances are the other side has something to do with it

shadchonim
Guest
shadchonim

Excellent article. Maybe shadchonim could help by encouraging bochurim to seriously consider the girls based on their midos etc rather than from what town they are from. I find that as an out of towner i have been given such poor chances from the shadchonim because”why would a bochur be interested in your daughter when there are so many locals?”

very well article
Guest
very well article

This is a very well written article
one point: bochurim are often (not always) the ones traveling for a date, and after two times flying overseas and three times within the states, it may become hard for them to invest the time, energy and money needed to travel for what might turn out to be something that wont work out – so lets just be aware of that possibility

Hamase hu ha'ikar
Guest
Hamase hu ha'ikar

Can we create a wall of shame for bochurim who are rude? Honestly, though, when I was dating, we all knew which bochurim to stay away from – our friends told us not to ever date the boys that screwed them over. But that means girls have to discuss with each other who they’ve dated…

True
Guest
True

it’s so rude to make the girl wait a week or think about it!!!
Hello?! Commen decently…menchlichkeit?

To #11
Guest
To #11

I’m all for that wall of shame. I dated a couple of guys – rude is a nice way to describe my expirences. Seriously who do you guys think you are- go and get help and learn how to be respectful and how to treat a woman with some class before taking a girl out and breaking her tender heart. Shame on all u men who made dates miserable for young women including myself.

So true!!!
Guest
So true!!!

And all the profile emailing only compounds the problem. Now bochorim are forwarded tons of profiles of great women who are ready to settle down. Meanwhile they get to look at pictures and decide who is with their time without making a single phone call or even reading the actual Shidduch profile! Shadchanim should blacklist them… I know a Shadchan who pushes all parties to explain why they are saying no. If they refuse to say why, the Shadchan will not make another suggestion for them until they do so. No one likes a pushy Shadchan, but if they are… Read more »

very true. but!
Guest
very true. but!

This is very true, but girls also get more “selective” the older they get (they just don’t get rude the boys do).

I am now happily married, but when I dated, I davka wanted to date older girls, as they were always more mature, but they would always get cold feet at some point (some after 2 months of dating…) while the girls who were younger than me who I dated generally were interested in getting engaged…(while I found them too shallow… I ended up marrying s/o 5 years younger…).

But the author’s point is indisputable.

Terrible Article
Guest
Terrible Article

A potpourri collection of all complaints possible against bochurim. This article will not solve anything. Go read a book like ” I only want to get married once” and help yourself.

I dated a California and actually
Guest
I dated a California and actually

She was a deep, chassidish girl who had her values straight.. Just saying

Maybe the girls should start paying for half the flights/hotels?
Guest
Maybe the girls should start paying for half the flights/hotels?

“Hint #2: The shopping male does not travel to meet a potential mate.”

Of course this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it costs hundreds or thousands of dollars for hotels and flights!

Chabad family
Guest
Chabad family

As a chabad person I have a strong opinion regarding this matter. We must follow the Rebbe’s advice as well as the Halochos in Shulchan Aruch. There, I said my comment, I fulfilled my need to post a random comment

To #19
Guest
To #19

Thumbs up!! I’m with you.

Will the real Male please stand UP.
Guest
Will the real Male please stand UP.

The male need this type of attitude to survive in the wilderness this is called natural selection….. hello! is this a article out of a science journal. From “based on my experience” whatever chance there is on one side off the coin has a fifty percent chance of falling on the other and thats a FACT. What about the girls that dates a guy who is 30 what are they thinking. I wonder how many of them are looking at the car, the watch, and how the suit is on him. Lets talk about the Modern girl the one that… Read more »

19 go
Guest
19 go

You hit it straight on!

i love a man that can shop
Guest
i love a man that can shop

i look at myself as a pretty well dressed put together person i get what she is saying here and she does have a point about these selfish narcissistic self righteous good looking handsome dude as myself. People always think that the perfect husband can’t exist, but then look at me I’m single, i have bachelor pad and call me for an appointment. You might have seen have seen me on forbs and GQ and my long list of my long list and less impressive showcasing. Enough about me now you talk about me. P.S the dude – and as… Read more »

Issues Go Two Ways
Guest
Issues Go Two Ways

I know a bochur that traveled overseas to meet a girl and the girl refused a second date. Really ? She couldn’t agree to meet him twice ? And then say no ?
I think that a girl should pay for half the expenses. Especially if the bochur went out 5 times, covered the expenses, and is very comfortable to move ahead. And the girl needs “much” “more” time. Perhaps if she footed half the bill she would have her priorities straight.

Don't be blinded by the shadows but see the sun rays!
Guest
Don't be blinded by the shadows but see the sun rays!

There are so many girls and boys out there ready to get married and meet their soul mate, so don’t put the blame on them just because of those few people who don’t know how to spend their time exquisitely.
Someone with experience:)

more  girls in the system then boys.
Guest
more girls in the system then boys.

we seem to be keeping our girls in the lubavitch system but losing many of the boys. There are way more girls in the shidduch system then boys available. big problem! We need change in the yeshivas … something isnt working

Great read
Guest
Great read

These guys are serial daters and often confused and afraid of the responsibility of marriage.Some consciously some not.
We need real solutions to help these young adults get past this and commit. They will be happier I the long run.

Boys also marry older girls
Guest
Boys also marry older girls

I have a few friends now (Bochurim) that are 23 that are marrying girls that are 26/27.

Hamaaseh hu haikor
Guest
Hamaaseh hu haikor

1) Parents should encourage their dating child, whether male or female to talk to a mashpia. Marrying someone is one of the biggest life decisions a person will make. 2) Shadchanim need to make rules. Not overbearing rules but rules of mentchlichkeit 3) People need to do their part but at the same time Hashem decides who each person will marry. So do your part but don’t get discouraged if the tenth person you date isn’t the right one. Maybe the 5th will work out a year later? Maybe number 11 is it? Maybe you aren’t really ready? There are… Read more »

really disturbed 18 yr old bochur
Guest
really disturbed 18 yr old bochur

“Young women diet, spend tons of money on clothes and makeup, have their hair professionally done for dates, bend themselves into pretzels trying to be whatever the guy wants” ????????????? horrible. i dont think any girl wth a healthy working head should do all those things and pain herself like that. if thats actually happening im really… i dont even know. hashem should help these girls! .. ig uess the next words said it all- “and for what?”

I think someone is suffering from Gender-Stereotype
Guest
I think someone is suffering from Gender-Stereotype

Have we really gone back to the 19th century view on men? Shallow, superficial, and msygonistic? As a guy, yes that gives me right to generalize my entire gender, I can say we are as diverse as women are! Its not a male attribute to be indecisive, the reason he can’t make up his mind could be for a million different reasons.

i agree
Guest
i agree

I unfortunately had to go through this…. he broke my heart after taking me out 20+ times. And yes each date just kept getting better… I really thought i found the one! 🙁
The boys need guidance and need to learn to have that leap of faith. You’re never going to find that perfect one without a single flaw…

to the writer and many of you out there reading these articles
Guest
to the writer and many of you out there reading these articles

I agree with the article, but what about the girls side how some behave as well? Like they can take time to get back to the shadchan or boys side too sometimes, or say interested but then for stupid reason will say no before even going out, and sometimes it was they who had pushed/ran after the guys side.. Sometimes because they have high expectations that after little thought decided to change their mind as the bochur doesn’t meet those expectations.. They want working guy, but who learns, or shlichus type but not to chassidish.. Loud and popular or organizer/head… Read more »

works both ways
Guest
works both ways

There’s also the issue with women who are very strong personalities, like ones who feel they must work (more of to price themselves like feminist)and not because need money or want to help.. So they have high expectations too..

Boo Hoo
Guest
Boo Hoo

I dated only a handful of Lubavitch girls and than lost interest. Too many women in Lubavitch have a victim-like “woe is to me/I must get married because it is my salvation” sort of attitude. This article is typical victim talk and man-bashing. What an awful attitude to approach dating with. It always makes me laugh when I see an older girls’ resume with large lists of what she’s looking for In her future spouse. If you truly wish to marry than get a little realistic or start looking out of Lubavitch. Or maybe your attitude stinks. And ya, I… Read more »

#27
Guest
#27

great comment. Getting to the bottom of it, is the way to go!

Pointless rant
Guest
Pointless rant

I didn’t catch the punchline of this seemingly pointless piece. It appears to be one of those rants about how men are so privileged and how women are made to suffer.

There are very, very few “serial daters”, and they are of both, the male and female variety. Shame on those few people.

Has it occurred to the author of this opinion piece that perhaps some people date a lot because it takes them a long time to find their match?

to 30
Guest
to 30

Ud be surprised. It’s comes more from an instinct to please rather than a conscious decision

im a male.
Guest
im a male.

So there a “the shopping girl” hint part 2? I think this simply put not “fair”. We all know how hard shidduchim can in such a “galus”!. Lets be an “inspiration” and only show positive balanced support while sticking together. This octus will allows to really break all boundaries. With moshiach ztidkainu mamesh!!

Am i the only one thinking this?
Guest
Am i the only one thinking this?

You know, as a 23 year old guy who is normal and always treats any woman with respect, I find this this article to be unpleasant. Now, i am not saying what the author writes is false, unfortunately a lot of it is true. But what articles like these do (at least how i feel) is that it leaves a subconscious bad taste for women towards (dating) men in general, dragging the good guys along as well… Especially with all negative comments following it. Shame…. Its simple guys. Treat a woman how you would want your dad to treat your… Read more »

Wow
Guest
Wow

An author with a chip on her shoulder. Is it a given that males grow more selective while females grow less selective? Nonsense! I know plenty of cases that are vice versa. Clearly, it depends on the individual. A lot of frustration and stereotyping.

Not accurate.
Guest
Not accurate.

While I understand the that there are people out there that are rude (to say the least) and many girls have suffered that abuse…I must say, besides for the fact that whatever was written here can be said both ways, for the most part this article is completely off. Just to point out a few… – To say that a guy has more options because at the age of 30 he can still date a 20 yo. To say there least, there are barley any girls at the age of 20 that will even think of dating a 30 yo… Read more »

Boys & boys parents.
Guest
Boys & boys parents.

I wish this article & all its comments would be read by the right people who really need 2 read it.

hmmm
Guest
hmmm

someone is expressing a gender fixation

To #30
Guest
To #30

if you’re really 18 years old I don’t think this discussion suites you’re age and for a very understandable reason. It’s no mystery why you “don’t get it”
Occupy yourself with Torah learning for at least a few more years.

Why not create a "shopping male list"
Guest
Why not create a "shopping male list"

Someone ought to create a shopping male list on the web for young woman and parents to know so they may avoid these names and with time when these boys stop receiving calls then maybe they would get the message and start getting serious.

To # 26
Guest
To # 26

Yes, it’s called (hark!), secular education. It was OK and provided in my 80’s (and before) Lubavitch high school generation, even producing some of the finest Shluchim. Then “they” changed it 20 or so years ago, to Limudei Kodesh only, just for the boys.
We are now seeing the results. The law of unintended consequences.

fun
Guest
fun

Wow! Finally someone had the courage to speak the truth! Especially the part where ” a girl can’t have any imperfection” but its fine for the boy to not be perfect! Seriously ! Guys ur not perfect looking ! Just because a girl is not perfect looking dosent mean she’s not right, start looking more on the inside them what she looks on the outside!!

An important article
Guest
An important article

The first two tips are great, total giveaways to the serial dater type. They go out but don’t really believe jts possibly it could work out, so why travel or do Dor Yesharim? Big kudos to the author for introducing the subject as an issue. Someone needs to call these guys out instead of setting them up with endless amounts of girls, when meanwhile they have severe commitment issues. How about suggesting some good old psychotherapy to address deep seated issues regarding family, loyalty and healthy relationships before they shlep willing and lovely ladies around town. Another personal suggestion, the… Read more »

TYPICAL Feminist Hit Piece
Guest
TYPICAL Feminist Hit Piece

This article is off in so many ways; it was written for the sole purpose of further blaming men for the frustrations women face. FACT: WOMEN get pickier as they get older (“I did not wait all this time just to marry a ____”) FACT: WOMEN care less about their appearance as they age single. FACT: WOMEN are more likely to decline an “older” bachur because they are now looking to be one of the lucky ones who marry a “younger” bachur. FACT: WOMEN have little if any appreciation for the efforts and investment bachurim make to date them, in… Read more »

LYR Divorced, 31, no kids:
Guest
LYR Divorced, 31, no kids:

I’m not a shopping male; ill meet any chassidisheh girl with a warm personality. But i cant cross the ocean to meet someone because i have local responsibilities (work, school etc.) , unlike a 23 year-old 770 bochur.

To #46
Guest
To #46

No problem. Just as long as there’s a shopping girls list as well so that the young men and their parents know which girls to avoid

why do we disrespect young women?
Guest
why do we disrespect young women?

This article uses the term ‘girl’ 8 times, including use for women who are old enough to buy liquor, vote, and fight in the armed forces. It does not use the term ‘boy’ even once.

Very telling.

as for the comments and article together the term ‘boy’ is used 2 dozen times, while the word ‘girl’ is used over 80 times.

A little respect, please.

wow
Guest
wow

This is worse than those articles you find on those feminist websites! Imagine if a bochur wrote an article like this about girls. Everyone would be screaming and shouting.

A smart article
Guest
A smart article

Would probably let all singles in our community know that this whole process is in the hands of the One Above. In shidduchim, it is not so important to try to find a mate as is it to try to not lose yourself in the mix. Hash-m chose your husband/wife, so just relax, trust Him and don’t take things so personally, because none of this really has anything to do with us. If you or your friends are in this parsha, do yourselves a favor and take it easy. Go live your life and if you’re being who you’re meant… Read more »

To #50
Guest
To #50

What makes the things you write as “facts” really facts? The same way you say that what is written in the article isn’t facts, so too what you write is not fact either – it’s only about a few select individuals – and you are writing it as a fact about all older women!

To all our singles....
Guest
To all our singles....

As I am a parent in the shiddach parsha I encounter many, many singles of both genders. I am delighted by swo many of our singles;’ they ALL seem so special! The girls come across for the most part as lovely, fun but responsible, serious about marriage, on track, with good goals and middos. The boys seem energetic, fine, intelligent, open-minded, hard-working ‘temimim’. I think our (Chabad) world is filled with gems!! Please parents and singles, don’t despair, don’t let it get to you. Be kind, be open, trust Hashem… and you will find the one to share your life… Read more »

Imput
Guest
Imput

1. If girls(/woman) want a gentleman they have to be a lady (not just be sensitive)…
2. To just want a bachur with good job/$ is as said in Pirkey Avos “ahavah hatluya b’davar…” what a shame.

Shadchanim
Guest
Shadchanim

I like the way some of you say the Shadchanim should push for answers or for a second date…
I’m impressed that you you even got through to a shadchan!
Someone who doesn’t respond, return phone calls, emails, texts, whatsapps, follow up should not be allowed to call themselves a shadchan. There should be a blacklist of shadchanim too!!!
I wish I could get a shadchan to even tell me “no”. They don’t even respond!!!

Amen to that!!
Guest
Amen to that!!

Im on board with the change

the only thing that
Guest
the only thing that

gets better with age, is wine and wisdom.

Men (and women) are neither.

Men are the same grub-yungen when they are younger as when they are older. Even worse, when they are older the grub-keit really shows. Men (and women) need to realize that life is more than facebook and yichus – marry the person – not the profile.

Imbalance of Power
Guest
Imbalance of Power

The author claims that thing are far worse in the “non-frum” world, but presents no data or evidence to back up her assertions. In the “non-frum” world, women have standards. They expect, that at the very minimum, their potential suitors have good educations, jobs, maintain a healthy appearance, be a gentleman, etc. Unfortunately, in the frum world, women will all too often date, and even marry, men who are jobless, have no education, direction, or career, have little to no ambition, and are not particularly well groomed. This reality allows mens who would otherwise not be considered attractive in the… Read more »

to # 57
Guest
to # 57

Agree! a breath of fresh air. Thanks

Citation needed
Guest
Citation needed

Opinion is fine, but please bring citations for anything presented as a fact.

A "shopping bochur"
Guest
A "shopping bochur"

I was called a serial dater shopping bochur etc etc. (about 20ppl a year) but I was just lookin for a short list of attributes and when I found her with them I put a ring on it. Both of us are very happily married for years now!

WOW WOW WOW!!!
Guest
WOW WOW WOW!!!

Didn’t read 63 comments, but as a mom who B”H married off all my boys (& girls) I say – BRILLIANT. My boys weren’t shoppers, far from it. The most people any of my kids dated was 3. Most married their first (only) date, But one of my girls dated a shopper. When she was happily married with 2 children, her shopper eventually married – a dull, unsophisticated, dowdy & plain girl, no yichus, no money. So he was holding out for “the very best”? Time marched on & pickings got slimmer. I blame the parents. If you don’t teach… Read more »

shadchanim business
Guest
shadchanim business

Someone needs to start doing shadchanim as an organized business. I believe this would help because currently, the way things are working is informal and inefficient. Shadchanim would be more motivated and on the ball if they were being hired in a professional capacity and doing everything according to a set system.

age
Guest
age

I’m married to a wonderful woman for over a decade. She’s slightly older than me and at most is something we tease each other about in good spirit.

I don’t get why men are so hung up over the age thing. The Rebetzin was older than the Rebbe!

to # 57
Guest
to # 57

Should I say thank you pollyanna? There is so much frustration out there for those of us who get no response or ever hear from anyone- even a no is better than nothing.so please get off the Disney cloud and come back to reality.

to # 66
Guest
to # 66

THat is how you describe a Jewish woman-and no yichus as if that’s some HUGE character asset?What a joke.I find your comment about some young woman very un-menshlichkeit and it shows me you need to learn something about putting others down as if they are “nothing”.

To #70
Guest
To #70

Oh dear, you completely missed the point. Shame.

To # 26
Guest
To # 26

Yes, it’s called (hark!), secular education. It was OK and provided in my 80’s (and before) Lubavitch high school generation, even producing some of the finest Shluchim. Then “they” changed it 20 or so years ago, to Limudei Kodesh only, just for the boys.
We are now seeing the results. The law of unintended consequences.

spot on!
Guest
spot on!

I just realized I’m totally a shopping male, and I’ll work on myself to approach our woman with more respect.

for the love of gd.
Guest
for the love of gd.

“It is basic male biology to always be looking for more and for better” quite ridiculous. this article is so messed up in so many ways its so sad.

to #26
Guest
to #26

You are right on point!!

number 71
Guest
number 71

No I did not miss the point.Your point was that the serial dater ended up with some loser that you described.He found someone he was compatible with and there’s no need to degrade anyone,Which is what was done.Serial daters are not always looking for some bombshell with “yichus”aqnd money.They want whatever makes them feel they have a partner which isn’t for you to judge and dissect.

Right on, who are you ? Older?or young? Male or female, married? Shadchanit ?
Guest
Right on, who are you ? Older?or young? Male or female, married? Shadchanit ?
Bocher
Guest
Bocher

I’m a nice respectful bocher who’s down to earth and went to good yeshivas and from a good home so I thought dating would be a breeze but little did I know how hard it is to find my other half. I have gone out with a older girl who I really liked and she liked me as well and after many dates she wasn’t ready to commit. I feel this article if very inaccurate and just puts down people. There’s no general rule which applies, everyone is different and to find your other half is a tough task. I… Read more »

54 and 57
Guest
54 and 57

Thank you for telling the truth!

Girls are just as bad!
Guest
Girls are just as bad!

a girl taking time getting back to the shadchan is ok?
Keeping a bochur waiting is fine & menchleich?
Having him pay & travel for all dates is no problem?
She’s earning and he’s learning so it’s his parents coughing up. And G-d forbid if he doesn’t take enough of a personal interest in her day – he gets dumped!
Girls are out shopping too!

Dear Bitter Author
Guest
Dear Bitter Author

Your entire point here is based on a false premise. Just because you don’t like something that doesn’t make it’s wrong! Any young single individual man or woman has the complete and unadulterated right to approach – what will most likely be the biggest decision of his or her’s life – in anyway they so choose albeit within the basic perimeters of human decency. Demanding more from frum woman on dates is not only understandable but certainly comprehensible as well, and not at all reprehensible as you so put it. If they are not exchanging dor yeshorim numbers then it… Read more »

Kurt
Guest
Kurt

There is no point to this article. Tell us something we don’t know. Also what’s the proof that as guys get older , they get pickier and not girls? Did you conduct a survey, or study on the matter? I’m sorry, but his article is a bunch of nonsense.

delayed responses don't necessarily mean that the person is a shopper.
Guest
delayed responses don't necessarily mean that the person is a shopper.

Sometimes it’s confusion and yes people do make mistakes in the dating process. We need to learn from those and move on. Sometimes its really difficult to do that. I learned in the process so far, not to judge or over think what happened not to set my hopes too high and to let go. I learned to forgive myself and others. I’m a much stronger person as a result. I’m sure that there is more lessons ahead of me on this journey. I learned so much about life from every person I dated so I know that everything has… Read more »

to 83:
Guest
to 83:

I just read you’re comment. I feel the same, although I am still dealing with a difficult experience. I was really hurt and being a guy, unfortunately there wasn’t really a recognition (in person). I echo your wish, may all the pain come to an end..

I'm surprised
Guest
I'm surprised

The amount of generalizing in this article is unacceptable like it says making a shidduch is as hard as splitting the yam Suf saying no to a shidduch is a Devine inspired thing you’ll say ya when HaShem wants you to say ya

Comments 1,3,9,18,55
Guest
Comments 1,3,9,18,55

You guys all sound like a thirteen year old kid who’s reading col and just doesn’t get it but wants to be cool so is commenting

We must of course
Always what the rebbe said on this matter

i really don't get it
Guest
i really don't get it

you’re all writing how miserable you are, such nebachs. the poor women, the poor boys who are being blamed. the truth is that there are shopping boys and girls.
the womem right how men treat them badly, and the men are writing how the women are blaming men for everything. seriously!such babies! dear women, we heard your side of things. dear men, you sound just like the women who are complaining over everything! come on1

A non-shopper male
Guest
A non-shopper male

The same is with the shopping woman. She does not bother with Dor yeshorim, does not go over sees special for a date, does not do the research and does not get back so fast to the shaddchon.

many comments missed the point
Guest
many comments missed the point

The author expresses a valid issue. Though there may be women who have the same attitude – it seems more likely that this is mostly a male problem – basically arrogance. If they are a real chossid this should not be the case!

2 seperate issues
Guest
2 seperate issues

It seems that 2 issues have been mingled into one. 1. There is a basic mentchlichkeit and consideration of the other’s feeling that must be taken into account. That includes getting bback to the shadchan in time, etc. 2. A boy or girl may find it hard to commit for a variety of reasons. Maybe he just hasn’t found the right one, or perhaps he has some underlying issue. However it is way better to say no after 20 dates than get married and end up in a divorce C”V In short, saying no is ok at any point; not… Read more »

enough
Guest
enough

Stop bashing men and bochurim already. It’s disgusting, and men put up with it because, they know they will look bad for putting an ounce of blame on the female gender.

I’m a woman.

X