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Sunday, 24 Av, 5779
  |  August 25, 2019
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    The Crown Heights Chaos

    Op-Ed by Rabbi Joseph Korf: The recent op-ed insisting that the Rebbe's desire was to push democracy is not only absurd on its face but a total mischaracterization. The reason Crown Heights is in the morass it finds itself is precisely because of its so-called democracy. Full Story

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    Shhhh
    Guest
    Shhhh

    We dont care anymore.
    Go live and let live!

    jhg
    Guest
    jhg

    Good article, but way too wordy.

    thank you Rabbi
    Guest
    thank you Rabbi

    Finnally one of the rebbe’s shluchim getting involved. thanks again.

    i stopped reading in the middle too much emotion no facts or message and total drivel!
    Guest
    i stopped reading in the middle too much emotion no facts or message and total drivel!
    Florida is a very chassidishe state - go check it out
    Guest
    Florida is a very chassidishe state - go check it out

    for yourself

    Author of Article is Ignorant:
    Guest
    Author of Article is Ignorant:

    The author speaks based on his personal feelings and not on facts at all. The feelings are valid, however. Interestingly, if one looks into the articles of incorporation of AGUCH, one will find some elements of support for democracy. I have copied them for everyone’s reference below: “First: The name of the corporation shall be AGUDAS CHASIDEI CHABAD OF UNITED STATES. Second: “Agudas Chassidei Chabad” consists of the union of pious orthodox Jews whose conception of religion is piety, study, knowledge, mutual helpfulness and charity, all of which are practiced in a spirit of sincerity, cheerfulness, humbleness and modesty; with… Read more »

    One Slight Problem
    Guest
    One Slight Problem

    If we were living in ancient Israel or post-geulah times, you would be quite right. SInce we’re not, there are a good many reasons (not the least of which having to do with country in which we find ourselves) that we should attempt to follow democratic principles whenever possible. There is a rather delicate difference between monarchy and tyranny, and you seem to prefer the latter.

    What we need is brains...
    Guest
    What we need is brains...

    Take the United Jewish Organizations (UJO) of Williamsburg or the Boro Park one [i don’t know what its called] — they have no elections, they get much more government funding, offer much more services to their residents.

    Democracy is a flawed method used in the absence of a competent leader

    Dear Rabbi Korf
    Guest
    Dear Rabbi Korf

    I would like to start by complimenting you for a well written article. Rabbi Korf, did you ever discuss with the Rebbe his position on CH issues? Did you ever discuss anything with the Rebbe. Why do you feel (and there are unfortunately others as well) that you can pick up a pen and write as if you know what the Rebbe thinks, what the Rebbe wants, etc.? You are behaving just like those that you are accusing of going against the Rebbes ratzon. The Rebbe was a shining example of Ahavas Yisrael. Let us try to emulate the Rebbe… Read more »

    Rabbi korf goes at it again
    Guest
    Rabbi korf goes at it again

    rabbi korf’s articles usually have more fancy words than toichen (see his article justifying printing pros and cons of chabad in lubavitch litrerature)

    Dictionary please!
    Guest
    Dictionary please!

    This is the stupidest article I have read in a while. Without getting into the substance, which is NOT what this article is about, the type of English used, which IS what this article is all about, shows how childish the author is. Who does he think the audience is? Are we supposed to be impressed with his writing style?

    Without taking the time to research the issue for ourselves, we have only the author’s word and judgment to go on. This article doesn’t speak well for him in that regard.

    I publicly
    Guest
    I publicly

    U keep on publicly decrying but no concrete proof, isn’t the proof in the pudding? Anyone with a little brains and a set of the rebbes sichos knows better than that

    to the author
    Guest
    to the author

    #1) with all due respect, try working out the issues first in Fl then come to CH
    #2) make your point shorter next time, us ppl in crown heights dont have so much time to read these long articles

    this guy is WAY WAY off!
    Guest
    this guy is WAY WAY off!
    Nonsense
    Guest
    Nonsense

    Now everyone knows what nonsense the Shluchim have to read daily on Shluchim Achdus…

    I TOTALLY AGREE
    Guest
    I TOTALLY AGREE

    One of Lubavitch/Crown Heights’s biggest problem has always been the lack of kabolas ol, of anyone being able to accept any sort of authority AT ALL.
    If someone didnt like the results of a din torah – “so dont listen”
    or dont like the rabbonim’s decision on any thing? “get new rabbonim.”
    The Torah doesnt beleive in democracy – there are absolutes and laws we must follow, no questions asked.
    This is exactly where we have gone wrong, thinking we can decide how we want to run things…

    man!!!!!
    Guest
    man!!!!!

    Your saying people pushed the Rebbe to do something he did’nt want????

    democracy for more mesira!
    Guest
    democracy for more mesira!

    סוף מעשה במחשבה תחילה

    This is what this so called democracy bought us…
    http://machanemenachem.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/suing-the-bais-din/

    Yes, we need democracy, but with the right people!

    Moshiach
    Guest
    Moshiach

    And next will be that the Rebbe was pushed to say and magiah all the siches on moshiach!!! From now on every issue that they not so pleased with Rebbe they will say that it’s not really from the Rebbe!!! By the way do you know that limud haramban and ois besefer toiro was also hisaruso deletato?

    Not getting into what the Rebbe did or did not say ...
    Guest
    Not getting into what the Rebbe did or did not say ...

    To say that the shlichus situation today is without faults is specious. No one on a lower tier can possibly get recourse against their superiors. There is no working system of dispute resolution and individual fights are adjudicated by firing the dissenting subordinate. The fact is that whenever you have an immense concentration of power, those in power will attempt to retain the power. Without the looming possibility of political reprisal or neutral adjudication, those in power will do everything they can to hoard their powers and keep them concentrated. Without accountability or the threat of being overturned, upstanding people… Read more »

    Very good use of your thesaurus
    Guest
    Very good use of your thesaurus

    Now, if you could only communicate ANYTHING meaningful at all through your fancy words – THAT would be something. BTW, are we allowed to be “dayeh zogers” in the community where you hold court? What would you have to say about that? Ver hot dir gebeten areinmishen. YOU are the last word about what The Rebbe thought and meant? I guess this article will get you listed on next years “Top 15 list”.

    Mind boggling
    Guest
    Mind boggling

    1) Al tadin es chavercha… Rabbi Korf, Behashgocho Protis you raised outside CH. I’d say you have no musag of the situation on the ground. 2) As a Shaliach who is the Rebbe’s soldier 24/7 I’d say this is outside the boundaries of your Shlichus. 3) The notion that anyone can “force” the Rebbe is patently absurd. Breing mir nisht kein raayos fun Moshe Rabbeinu A”H. It makes for a nice vort, but it’s an inaccurate comparison VDA”L. 4) The suggestion that CH be run by those who run the Rebbe’s moisdos is absurd; I know of no evidence to… Read more »

    Nonsens
    Guest
    Nonsens

    Rabbi, please leave us alone. Emotion and good words are not facts. To many words for nothing

    To #11
    Guest
    To #11

    I have to agree with you & other posters who are somewhat insulted by the patronizing, “high-falutin’ ” language used by the author. I found it extremely irritating & a perfect example of an inflated ego. I am a former writing teacher & a published writer, so I think I am qualified to speak on your style. If this was before me for grading & critique, I would give it an F. I have no idea what you’re talking about & when my eyes glazed over after paragraph 2 I knew this was going nowhere. Rabbi Korf: re-write, so your… Read more »

    ''push the rebbe''???!!!
    Guest
    ''push the rebbe''???!!!

    The very seeds of its destruction were sown years ago when proponents of this democracy decided to pester and “push” the Rebbe for rabbinical elections. Never in Lubavitch did such a thing exist (not to mention Jewish history). But some malcontents – unwilling to set aside their egos – couldn’t leave well enough alone and found it necessary to use a “cloak of sanctity” in demanding democratically elected rabbis. total ignorance(thats judging favorably,otherwise its outright apikursus) who ever heard of the rebbe being ”pushed into something”?! the rebbe shitah is known yhay he would never give in to terror/pressure.. on… Read more »

    Satmar has no democracy yet still...
    Guest
    Satmar has no democracy yet still...

    so…

    elections
    Guest
    elections

    rabbi, i believe in your father’s state shluchim hold elections amongst themselves for different vaads. that is one of the things most of us admire about your father. that he has the foresight to allow others to help him and it does not need to be a dictatorship. he must have gotten this idea based on the fact that the rebbe himself “pushed” for the elections.

    hey hey hey
    Guest
    hey hey hey

    stay in your place! dont bud in to our stuff in CH!

    the Rebbe was forced Chas Vesholom???
    Guest
    the Rebbe was forced Chas Vesholom???

    I don’t believe what this article is insinuating… He is writing that the Rebbe was FORCED into agreeing to hold elections – and this is something that is actually CONTRARY to his holy will and desire? are we back to the KAVANA PNIMIS organization – the ones that understand what the Rebbe REALY means – and not what he is (c”v) forced to say publicly, inorder to satisfy the simple minded ‘peasants’??? Rachmono Litzlan that we have Chassidim talking like this. The Rebbe said many times PUBLICLY that he sais what he wants PUBLICLY and no one (not even mazkirim)… Read more »

    finally an article that is not "anonymous"
    Guest
    finally an article that is not "anonymous"

    I do not live in Crown Heights and I hope never to live in such a dump bigashmiyos and biruchniyos. However, I commend anyone that tries to actually fix it.

    Cut the baloney and get to the point
    Guest
    Cut the baloney and get to the point

    And how about actually providing some support for your point. Instead of concentrating on the amount of 17 syllable words, why don’t you try to explain what you are saying? For example, in the first paragraph, you say that the first op-ed was “so inconsistent as to be utterly specious.” Why not give some examples of the inconsistencies so we know what you are talking about? By the way, what means “terrestrial connection”? Or “morass”? “Heretofore”? When was the last time you heard someone use that word in a conversation? “To meet our fearless leader” — how about “Rebbe”?

    To #30
    Guest
    To #30

    I would be very careful in my choice of word about a neighborhood that the Rebbe referred to as Kan Tzivah Hashem Es Habrachah. Regardless of it’s problems it is perhaps the ideal place for a Lubavitcher who is not on Shlichus to live. Would you say that LA or Miami(or anywhere else that has a free standing Lubavitch community) would be better??!! Remember how the Meraglim spoke of Eretz Yisroel. Loshon horah is applicable to geographical space as well.

    The Meraglim.... and the absurdity of the comparison
    Guest
    The Meraglim.... and the absurdity of the comparison

    Rabbi
    The Rebbe says in Sichas Shlach 5751, that since the meraglim were sent by Moshe, they must have succeded… even though Moshe was “forced”…

    Nevertheless you think they didn’t succed…

    Just because
    Guest
    Just because

    a father plays a game of peak a boo for a while , does not mean we have an emotional golden calf every time we hear yechi or not..
    There are so many yiddin. that need us now, so why don’t we go out like good little Lubavitchers and bring heaven down to earth, and let the Big Lubavitcher do what he promised?

    Incomprehnsible.
    Guest
    Incomprehnsible.

    The abuse of the English language in this article is definitely a more urgent problem for Lubavitch to deal with than its content. It is a Chilul Hashem. I can’t believe anyone would put their name on it.

    Rabbi
    Guest
    Rabbi

    Are you trying to help Crown Heights? I am confused of the point of your article?

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