ב"ה
Wednesday, 30 Sivan, 5782
  |  June 29, 2022

The Attack on Yeshivos is Your Problem Too

Opinion by Avi Lesches: Initially, we dismissed the problem because it came from a few disgruntled people. Now, with the State of New York making decisions, it became a real problem for Yeshivos and for you as parents. Full Story

L’Chaim: Seewald – Mentz

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Question for Mr Lesches
May 28, 2022 9:42 pm

In what world is it slander to say that the yeshivos Don’t teach basic reading writing and math?

It is a truth universally acknowledged.

Missing the point
Reply to  Question for Mr Lesches
May 28, 2022 11:21 pm

This is not about reading writing and math
Many schools teach it and still have an issue with these proposed mandates
This is a democratic country and every should be able to choose what type of school they want to send their kids too
Just like they choose the food to feed them, how to spend their money and everything else . When the children grow up and marry they can make differnt choices for themselves and their children.

Enemy
Reply to  Missing the point
May 29, 2022 12:04 am

Are we also allowed to chose what medical intervention to do on our kids or is that beyond our choice… not too many people had an issue when the government made the school expel the kids whose parents chose differently or who couldnt get for whatever other reason…

Interesting article
Reply to  Enemy
May 29, 2022 10:58 am

You cannot neglect your child medically in which case the government can step in

That’s exactly what they are saying here with education these days you need basic secular studies to survive and get around and not giving this to your child on some magical belief that they don’t need it is also neglect

Baseless comment
Reply to  Interesting article
May 30, 2022 6:44 am

Not injecting your toddler with a flu shot or hep B is NOT medically negligenting your child ! Yet these vaccines are mandated in NYS for a preschooler and/or a child to attend Yeshiva!

Leba
Reply to  Baseless comment
June 1, 2022 6:39 pm

(I know this is unrelated to the actual article but I have to put this in)

An average of 2000 children under the age of 5 are hospitalized from flu each year. So yes, not injecting your toddler with a flu shot is medically negligently your child.

Anonymous
Reply to  Leba
June 2, 2022 12:49 am

Please Inject your kids with whatever you want Did you look up any of the ingredients? Did you look up it’s adverse reaction profile? Have you thought to compare the total number of flu cases from before the shot mandate and after? Have they gone up or down or stayed the same? (A leaky vaccine especially live attenuated can aggravate an outbreak virulence by putting too much pressure on the virus to mutate into worse mutations. Immunology 101) And lastly how effective are they at preventing flu transmission on average? Either way we can disagree if the flu shot helps… Read more »

Anonymous
Reply to  Leba
June 2, 2022 1:11 am

By the way 2000 kids out of millions is statistically insignificant and does not justify
But did the study say how many of those hospitalized kids had comorbidities? How many had the flu shot? Did any of them have super low vitamin d levels? And

Interesting article
Reply to  Missing the point
May 29, 2022 10:55 am

The ones that do teach has maybe an hour a day and regardless you clearly state most and if that’s true or not you acknowledge some do not

So let’s just say the schools that teach an hour a day are being affected because of those that teach nothing

Anonymous
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 9:02 pm

Nah. We are learning far higher levels than basic math and reading. Ie compative to latin etc… in multiple languages (Aramaic, ancient French, ancient Hebrew, Yiddish and more), And advanced math, law, biology, philosophy… Gemara is no simple study. Neither is advanced halacha or kabbalah/chassidus. Takes a lot of analytical thinking, complex reasoning. You clearly never learned in a proper yeshiva or simply chose to waste your time instead of applying yourself to your learning. I know multiple people who took the skills they learned in yeshiva and applied it to secular education for a trade and we’re surprised how… Read more »

just wrong
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:22 pm

Such nonsense in your reply but lets start with English is a primary language and your taking the exception I agree that we do produce a nice amount of successful individuals but the vast majority struggle

Still a lie
Reply to  Missing the point
May 29, 2022 11:21 am

It’s still a lie even if “Missed the point”

That's not all they said
Reply to  Question for Mr Lesches
May 28, 2022 11:27 pm

They claimed that yeshivas don’t provide education to our children, which is a straight-up lie.
They also named more than 30 schools, most of which teach English and math, so that was also not true.
They also leveled many other accusations against the yeshivas. This is public knowledge and you can easily look it up.

Eastern Parkway
Reply to  That's not all they said
May 29, 2022 9:25 am

Oholei Torah teaches English and math these days?

Anonymous
Reply to  Eastern Parkway
May 29, 2022 9:08 pm

The parents do. And a lot more efficiently than spending years and years learning what can be picked up in a couple of months at home. Both of my brothers know how to read and write. They taught themselves half of it when they got curious and the rest was easy and fun. Not saying everyone can. Maybe they are just super smart. But seems like we are blessed with lots of similar stories. At the end of the day a smart businessman will just hire the English writers when needed.

just wrong
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:24 pm

Whatever your siblings learnt at home that was basic and helpful to them should that not be added to the curriculum so all kids can benefit not just siblings

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
June 1, 2022 11:08 am

No thanks The decision to formally teach limudei kodesh in school exclusively is based on our deeply held religious convictions. And whatever else the children need to learn we teach in other ways. My point was twofold. One, our children get more than an adequate basic education that gives them the skills they need for life, our way of life, in school. They then apply their skills to whatever secular subjects they may need for work. Second, it is we the parents that get to decide how to define ‘basic’ educational requirements for our kids, not you nor the government.… Read more »

#best uncle
May 28, 2022 10:22 pm

Go Avi Leshes!!

Anonymous
May 28, 2022 11:19 pm

So where exactly is the city going to place 500000 truanced kids?
There’s definitely not enough room in the public schools that’s for sure

Anonymous
May 28, 2022 11:23 pm

Maybe all 500000 kids can sign up to public school for next year just for fun?
And watch their whole house of cards collapse…
There’s far more of us than them.
And we pay there bills.
Genug shoyn!

Oy!
Reply to  Anonymous
May 29, 2022 1:22 pm

Great, maybe we can start a free public school yeshiva! 😂

Anonymous
May 28, 2022 11:49 pm

If the yeshivas would teach English writing and math, this would not have started. Once it started, it is hard to stop. Whatever happens to the regulation, yeshivas should teach English and math. It should not be considered secular because it is necessary, just like food and water.

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 29, 2022 1:12 am

That’s incorrect
This would still start because we would also don’t teach gender, racial and climate “studies” either.
Wake up and smell the coffee

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 29, 2022 1:14 am

… which according to the Marxist-communists are essential for our children’s indoctrination too.

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:20 am

The city just needs our permission to get their foot in the door before they can mandate them under the guise of math and English.
Similar to the vaccination schedule, where most people agreed to the dpt and mmr requirements but then got the unnecessary hep b, flu and varicella (and soon to come mrna COVID) afterwards with no recourse to decline.

Why is it essential for schools?
Reply to  Anonymous
May 29, 2022 1:34 am

You’d think that yeshiva graduates who did not spend hours studying English and Math would be delinquent homeless criminals. Turns out that they are stable upstanding law-abiding citizens with decent jobs and healthy families.
What’s necessary is that the government respect our decisions. There’s much they can learn from our community.

Interesting article
Reply to  Why is it essential for schools?
May 29, 2022 10:59 am

You are ignorant to the problems in your own community

Check out
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 5:40 pm

What makes you think that every public school child is successful?? In every society you will have some people successful and others less so

Anonymous
Reply to  Interesting article
May 31, 2022 7:04 am

Are you willfully blind to the problems in the public school community or just ignorant of the success in our own?

just wrong
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:30 pm

The original comment mentions not being delinquent criminals let me ask you a questions I bet you would have not problem telling me who commits a good amount of violent crimes but who would you say commits a good amount of white collar crimes? Saying there are problems in both places is an oversimplification its like saying in new york there are 100 murders a day and in florida there are 10 murders a day so they both have problem NO ONE HAS BIGGER PROBLEMS And further say public schools have their issues which I would agree they do what… Read more »

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 10:56 pm

Please read the article.
We are not discussing the details of the actual curriculum in the different yeshivos but who gets to decide or dictate the curriculum/staff. Under no circumstance should those decisions be handed to the government, ever!

Anonymous
May 29, 2022 12:37 am

And while we’re at it, how about we demand the city mixes out of the parents medical decisions too?

Thank you Avi!
May 29, 2022 1:09 am

great article – and on the mark

Did you not rub shoulders with the mayor & governo
May 29, 2022 1:11 am

Mr. Lesches – I clearly remember the photo ops posted here on COL and the endorsements of the “wonderful” mayor. If you thought he would represent our interests so well to the point that you encouraged the community to vote for him vs. Curtis Sliwa, now would be a good time to demand “pay back” for helping him get elected. Parents have the right to chose where and how to educate and medicate. Within the US many states – including FL with so many frum Jews – easily accept a medical exemption for vaccination and have schools that teach in… Read more »

Confusing city and state

The mayor is not involved in this

Role of government - Clarified
May 29, 2022 1:34 am

The Government can and should have a interest in protecting public health (they obviously must be honest and fair in the they reach those decisions – and that is a separate conversation) The government has NO role to play in how I choose to educate my child, provided that he is safe and not in danger. Additionally, because government has the fiscal responsibility to balance a budget for the benefit of all its constituents, they may have some interest that my children not be raised in a manner that will burden society The stellar record of Yeshiva and the Jewish… Read more »

Interesting article
Reply to  Role of government - Clarified
May 29, 2022 11:04 am

So your saying we don’t take government benefits? I distinctly remember how bad it got when kj at to settle with the government for extensive fraud so not only using government benefits which is what we call a burden on society but also using it when it’s not needed Children are safe in school? They are less safe because people like you ignore and straight up pretend there are no issues! Not too long ago it was very common for teachers to beat kids and still today there are issues of molestation I can keep going on addressing your comment… Read more »

Anonymous
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 2:04 pm

Let me remind you that the government does not produce any money. All the do is take (steal) our money that they money launder with and then kindly throw us back some crumbs to keep us pacified and obedient. They are not government benefits! It is our money to begin with that is being used against us.

Interesting article
Reply to  Anonymous
May 29, 2022 8:45 pm

Actually it’s those with a proper education that go out and make real money (not counting the exceptions) that pay the taxes that then go to those who did not have a proper education and don’t make a lot of money and need government benefits

Anonymous
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 10:13 pm

Proper education? Where did they get the funding for that if not from our taxes? (Property, income, tax, gas…) And how many actually pay them off and how many years does that take? Compare it to those who start off without and work their way up to salaries of over 100000, and I don’t think they’re better off

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 8:09 am

We are not talking about college we are talking about basic skills like reading writing and math

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 1:50 pm

Well actually we are talking about handing complete control of our kids education to a government body that has completely failed the public school kids in basic skills like reading writing and math.

just wrong
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:33 pm

The public school teachers wont be teaching in yeshivot the government will provide oversight in making sure our schools employ individuals who will which they have failed to do so until now

What your saying does not make sense so because public schools need improvement in teaching basic English and math that means we shouldn’t teach it at all

If you had to twist your logic anymore you would do a full 360

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 10:43 pm

So who will provide oversight to the government who have failed the public schools when they provide oversight to the more successful private schools? The community? You are having trouble following my login because yours is clearly lacking…

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 11:09 pm

It’s like hiring a failed businessman to run your successful business because certain small details may or may not need tweaking….
It’s backwards and destructive
Our kids are doing great. Our community is successful against all odds. There are more than a few different schools with varying levels of secular studies for those that want. Nothing is perfect. Most things do not come easy and take hard work. But overall we are succeeding at raising good capable stable successful hard working and intelligent kids that we can be proud of.

Anonymous
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 2:07 pm

…. Where did the 1.25 billion tax $ with a B. that Mrs deblasio spent end up? Was it behind the organized riots/fireworks/ballot mules in the summer of love?

mr so and so
Reply to  Interesting article
May 30, 2022 4:37 pm

Beating kids and molestation Is not limited to jewish schools, sorry.
Yes it is true we take government money just as they do but we pay for our education and their education which does not have any greater success rate then ours so let stay out of our education.

Anonymous
Reply to  mr so and so
May 31, 2022 8:11 am

The difference is in public school its considered a problem sorry to say our community does not view it that way

And how can you say our education has the same success rate when we don’t have one? Further you bash public school but then go on to say our results are just as good as theirs so which is it?

Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 1:04 pm

I don’t know where you live but I would be hard pressed to find one orthodox community that are ok with teachers molesting or beating kids. Our education has a far greater success rate than public schools in all areas including basic reading writing and math. I challenge you to test any 21 yr old you find from our community and then do the same with the neighboring graduates of the local public schools to compare. This is true even with the schools that don’t officially teach it. The kids learn what they need to know either in school or… Read more »

just wrong
Reply to  Anonymous
May 31, 2022 7:36 pm

What your saying about public school results vs yeshiva results for english and math where are you getting this from? have you done a similar experiment? or is this just what you are told and have to believe? I bet you have never even looked at the results of public school vs a yeshiva when it comes to secular studies and if im right maybe you will take the time to reflect on that and not rush to type a robotic and impulsive response to my comment

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 10:19 pm

I speak from first hand knowledge and if you can’t fathom such a reality then maybe you’re thinking is a bit square and robotic? But no, I am quite the independent thinker and question everything I’m told.

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 10:23 pm

… and like I said don’t send to yeshiva if you don’t like it but quit ruining it for the rest of us who do. Is that asking too much?

Anyone mentioning the problem to Governor Hokel?
May 29, 2022 9:02 am

Govener Hokel is coming to ch today. Maybe we should mention the issue to her.

Letz

Who are the “we” that should mention the issue to Gov Hochul?!
The lapdogs that try to get close to her for a self-promoting photo op?!
They only represent their own interests and advancements and will never “rock the boat” or risk getting a frown from Her Honor which might derail their agenda of playing nice-nice!!!

Letz
May 29, 2022 10:11 am

“We” as a community should organize a massive PROTEST and DEMONSTRATION when Gov Hokel arrives to CH – as any other NORMAL community would! But alas, our “leaders” wouldn’t want that because it might make her frown instead of smiling during the photo op.

Interesting article
May 29, 2022 10:52 am

“and the government accepted their accusations at face value, began investigations”

Did they accept their accusations at face value or did they start investigating?

From what I understand it’s their responsibility to investigate claims to confirm if their true

This author of the article is clearly driving the narrative of the article to justify a predetermined outcome

Pre-determined outcome
Reply to  Interesting article
May 29, 2022 4:43 pm

They accepted the allegations and the investigations were merely to justify their pre-determined conclusions.
Many allegations are made against many institutions in NYC on a regular basis and they are almost never investigated. If they were, most public schools would be shut down for not providing a proper education to their students.

Interesting article
Reply to  Pre-determined outcome
May 29, 2022 8:47 pm

But they did investigate so your point is invalid

Glad
May 29, 2022 11:41 am

I’m glad this topic has been forced into the open for discussion and analysis. Ultimately, hopefully people will get to what they want for their children, and hopefully that will be the healthiest direction for the children and humanity.

NYS cancelled the history regents
May 29, 2022 12:02 pm

Because it wasn’t politically correct enough…my modern orthodox friend who was originally against this petition ended up signing it as a result of this hypocrisy because it leads to NY messing around with ALL orthodox schools

You get what you vote for
May 30, 2022 12:06 am

How about you and all the usual suspects in the CHJCC photo ops stop pushing these progressives left politicians? People in CH need to stop voting for democrats b/c “supposedly” they are the only ones who will win in NY. No. If you vote for these lunatics b/c the CHJCC says so or even worse don’t vote at all, then thank yourself for the current hell hole NYC and NYS has become.

just wrong
Reply to  You get what you vote for
May 31, 2022 7:38 pm

People make fun of the left and how far they went that free speech is a right wing value

Apparently it went the other way as well where wanting a basic education for all kids is now a left wing value?

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 11:34 pm

What’s the problem?
Go send your kids to a school that offers whatever basic education you want.
And no all kids are not your kids and don’t belong to you. You are way off in the healthy boundaries department.
And do you even have kids? Is that why you seek to control everyone elses? What is true for you may be the opposite for someone else. And just because you think something is of absolute importance does not make it so for others. You do you.

Anonymous
Reply to  just wrong
May 31, 2022 11:55 pm

Wanting a basic education for our kids is an everybody value. The difference is who gets to decide and define the term ‘basic’ for my kids. Me or you? If it’s you than that’s communism (left) If it’s me then it’s democratic (right) My kids are my kids, your kids are yours. Freedom of religion means allowing many differences of opinions regarding right and wrong and what it means to best educate our respective children. You can think that learning English is an absolute must and Yiddish is unnecessary and a waste of time. I can think that learning Yiddish… Read more »

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