By Yael Korman
I am a Baalas Teshuva, currently a resident of Crown Heights. The latest talk of town has been confusing me all too much, and whenever I ask, I am simply not satisfied with the answers provided. So I’ve decided to go public.
I have no political agenda, and naturally, I do not have any family ties with any of the involved, which means I am basically unbiased.
I have been hanging around Crown Heights for a couple of months now trying to find a Shul in which I would feel comfortable, without success. Seven-Seventy is overcrowded, some Shuls have no women’s gallery, and the others are mostly run by social or family circles. I was simply stranded.
This was all up until last week, when by recommendation of a friend, I went to the now famous Congregation Ahavas Yisrael (led by Rabbi Chezzi Denebeim).
I loved the atmosphere, the warmth, and the inspiring melodies. Most women were dressed in accordance with Halachic requirements, many men had beards, and it seemed to me like quite a sincere group of people.
But for some reason, there was a touch of intensity. I could feel that this is not just another Shul. There was nervous whispering, many guests stopping by, and my instincts were led to guess that this is something different. I was intrigued.
So I did some homework. Apparently this Shul has been conceived as nothing short of a revolution. I discovered that there is not a man, woman or child in the community who does not have a concrete opinion on the matter. Most people I asked said they heard about it by word of mouth, and they’re not really sure what goes on there, but that doesn’t stop them from having a firm approach to the burning issue.
Then the news gets out that the senior chassid Rabbi Yoel Kahn, who never gets involved in this kind of stuff, made Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba sit with Rabbi Yaacov Schwei on the matter. Rabbis Pinchas Korf and Levi Garelik joined them. The story gets thicker when Rabbi Ezra Shochet from California called the administration of the Shul to admonish them for their “wrongdoings.”
There seems to be a lot of panic, like this Shul plots on overthrowing the establishment or some other evil, drastic disaster of catastrophic magnitude.
This is confusing as well as nerve-wracking. I have been Baalas Teshuva for quite a few years now, and I have yet to see such a commotion in the community over a few well-meaning young men and women.
Ok, so the elder rabbis called in the younger rabbi and made him extend the mechitzah. Of course, he complied. Fine, granted. That’s the Beth Dins job, to guide less experienced rabbis as how to run a Shul. But why the urgency, am I missing out on something?
And why the bad-mouthing? Whoever I meet is talking about this Shul. As if they are reforming Judaism. As if someone’s maledicting the community’s leadership. Someone went so far to proclaim that they’re on a mission to secularize crown heights!
For goodness sake, it’s just a nice Shul. Is it a crime to be welcoming? Is there something wrong with being inspired by the Chabad born composer, Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach? Does it say in the Torah that men and women must be seated separately for a lecture (not prayers or a meal)? What’s wrong with compromising on cultural nuances, to attract more people to prayers?
Does Lubavitch not mean love? Do we stand for acceptance of every individual? Is there not a teaching that one must judge each other favorably? Has the Rebbe not taught that every Jew and Jewess can and should serve god on their own level? How do these Rabbis understand the Chassidic premise of Ahavas Yisrael?
I understand that the ultra Chassidic would not feel at home there, but no one is forcing anyone to come. This is a democratic country, and God is not owned by the zealots.
I know I am new ’round here, so I may have totally misunderstood the situation.
So please help me, enlighten me.
CLARIFICATION: Rabbi Garelik told COLlive he did not attend a meeting of any sorts on this topic. He did not want to elaborate what he thinks about Chevra Ahavas Yisroel.
I have not found a shul that I like in CH till I walked into this shul, I never used to look forward to shabbos and know I look forward to shabbos, if it was not for this shul a lot of people would not be going to shul, and thats what labavitch is suppose to be about except being critical of the shul
1. R. Shlomo Carlbach was not from a Lubavitch family. He was from ann old German rabbinic family and he became Lubavitch as a young man.
2. Can’t we separate his music from his troubled personal behavior?
ZERAZEH…..vert nisht nispoel fun di maligim….kuss zei alle vi reb shloime zugt “tif tif in tuchus arein”………DU BREGNST YIDDEN NENTER TZU YIDDISHKEIT….AND THATS A GOOD THING! AND BY THE WAYS, FOR ALL THOSE WHAKOS WHO ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE CARLEBACH SHULE, WHY DON’T THEY FOCUS MORE ONT EH 100’S OF TEENAGERS DROPPING OUT OF THE SYSTEM…..V’DAL
Since we need to be Mekarev all Yidden including all those who will not feel comfortable except in shull which sings Rock and Role type of Jewish songs…
I propose we open a new shull called:
“The Rock and Role Shull”.
We will hire a Rock and Role type of Chazan like Lipa Shmeltzer and all the bums of CH will feel very much at home in this shull.
Why not?
Do bums not need to daven?
We need to make shull where they feel comfortable and I feel that the Ahavas Yisroel Shull did not yet go far enough.
My nephew, a Chabad shaliach, told me about this shul. Of course, this is a significant departure from tradition – Reb Shlomo, during his lifetime, was always very careful when visiting Crown Heights to never announce his arrival or make a scene. Word would get out among the local Chevra that Shlomo was in the neighborhood, we would gather to meet him, and that would be it. He was extremely concerned for the kavod of the Lubavitcher Rebbe and would never do anything to take away from his honor. (If that’s not the very definition of tznius, what is?) And… Read more »
he was at alkewood before he came to chabad, and was born into an ‘unaffiliated’ orthodox rabbinical family.
you never know, you never know
very well written.Good point
Aren’t people tired of forming their opinions based on hearsay? I mean, haven’t you been around long enough to KNOW that what you hear is ALMOST NEVER how it actually is?!?! Come daven at this shul, see it, experience it, and then tell us all what’s going on there! The sweet prayers, the heartfelt divrei Torah, the warmth, the feel of unity – ALL according to halacha and the hashkofos of Chabad. If you have an opinion on this matter – share it AFTER you got to SEE IT FOR YOURSELF!!! Thank you to all the organizers and volunteers –… Read more »
Is that your way of implying that his music is chabad?
If he was chabad born or not doesn’t matter, if he is not chabad.
But I do feel what you write about shuls being run by social or family circles. Hard to find the right place.
Chabad nigunim are 1000 times mores inspiring and heartfelt than any shlomo song. But if you like it, go for it, just dont’ call it chabad, or chabad born.
And I agree with #16
Source: In Tehillim
“Kol Kevudah Bas Melech Penima”
I find it sad about this Rabbis care were are these Rabbis when Sima was raising money to send kids form Crown Heghts to camps and progams to get kids of drugs where are the rabbis when kids are yes sleeping with non Jews openly .The girls who go to this are good kids many have more classes in Chassidus then many of the peple commenting ,do our girls have to go to the UWS or Israel to have a passionate daving Chabad had lost the art of prayer is any one in Crown heghts happy about going to Shul… Read more »
no, they are not mishachists
Shlomo was known as a predator and molester on girls and adult women alike.
People were awed by him and afraid to speak up against him so he was free to continue…
The stories are all out there… just google “Shlomo Carlebach”
Its hilarious and sad all the accusations coming from people who have not even built up the guts to simply walk in a find out for themselves. Loshon Hara very clearly is the fastest way for communities to deteriorate. With a little investigation one may be surprise by what the find.. I checked it out, here’s what I found. 1. Militant about the mechitza.. FIrst of all, that thing is like an iron wall. Goes from floor to ceiling, opaque and if someone is caught TRYING to sneak a peak or talk near it, they are sent out of the… Read more »
since when has CAY become a Carlebach Shul, i have davened there for the last 3 weeks and the rabbi only spoke chassidus, i had no idea it was carlebach, what in fact would constitute it a C. shul, singing songs of his? surely not as most chabad houses do… his Torahlach? they aren’t told over at CAY? it is like calling 770 ‘The Cholent Shul” b/c they have cholent on shabbos. seriously most of u commentators come off sounding nothing short of jealous and a bit hateful as well. this shul is frumer than any chabad house i’ve been… Read more »
I am so disgusted! If I wasn’t careful to differentiate the movement from the people who are part of it, I would be embarrassed to call myself a Lubavitcher after reading the comments here. One experience at this shul made me want to come back every week, it has everything that Crown Heights lacks, a sense of community, warmth, openness, no judgment, SINCERITY! That’s what I used to think Chabad was about, now I see its really about how high the mechitza is, what color shirts/pants you wear, how long your beard is, who your father/grandfather is, what songs you… Read more »
for guidance and inspiration for many years. He is one of the most hartzig chsidishe people I have ever encountered. People are intimidated by his charisma! Chez- I still think of some of the thibngs you told me in detroit a million years ago
Good idea!
Yes 178 it’s only you… They don’t have room for the people who already go there… not looking for any new customers… so stay put. Thanks
I saw him in action and have spoken to his victims and every bad thing that is said about him is true – and I do not even know a quarter of his tayvedige nonsense. However, he is dead. I won’t listen to his recordings, nor do I enjoy his music sung by others, but if someone does, so be it. The problem is only if we incorporate his so called ideology into Chabad. He spouted hippie nonsense in attractive sound bites, and his only maalah is that when someone really did want real Yiddishkeit, he sent them elsewhere. But… Read more »
if its a crarlebach shul- then its messed. when shlomo passed by the reeb for os shel brahco and said a hearty LCHAIM! the rebbe stared staight at him and said a chossid is a mentch, not a meshugeneh! now if they do things like carelbach its messed up
if the rebbonim of ch agree, as in beis din, not some yuckels, then its all good- enjoy:) and e/o stop fighting:)
I will like to understand the issue here. I was invited to a bar mitzvah in Empire shtible shabbos mivorchim tammuz 5770.There was a very nice kiddush with mixed seating and nobody became excited.This is an established shul in ch during a shabbos mevorchim with rabeim and mashpiim attending and what changed now ?
After reading 177 comments that for the most part declare “This shul is the WORST thing to EVER happen in Crown Heights!!”, I still have no idea what it is that makes this shul so terrible.
Anybody care enough to stop the name calling and yelling for a few minutes and tell us what it is you are yelling about?
2 Questions:
1) Do they keep the Sefer torah there all week in the fridge with the flowers? (doesn’t a shul need to have a proper home for the Sefer Torah,not just to be brought in for shabbos?)
2) After havdallah do they conveniently roll out the blankets,and roll seamlessly into” mimulo movie night”?
In all seriousness,how can this be halachac if there is one door,men daven till the entrance,and women walk in.
Listen,you might be very special. But this shul project needs
to be a LITTLE better thought out.
Think think think……ramifications,halachos,future…….and then think some more.
Chezzi,
Al Tsbayiesh Mipney……….
(Ahavas Yisroel)
Right we don’t write comments? Except when we do. Guess which one is mine? Please text me, i am sure you know!
I think they should also open a school (with a mechitza) and send their children to learn guitar and flower (the reproductive organs of the plants) arrangement there. Their children, product of all their love, have no place in our schools.
A shul is a place to bring your children and teach them avodas hashem. A shul should be a reflection of the community, where old and young, Rabbis, merchants, rich and poor, learned and ignorants all gather together and form a minyan to daven as one, the prayer of the holier ones elevating the tefillos of the sinners. I personally feel that a little noise is healthy, it means it is a reflection of who we are, and if there are young pure neshomos praying and old holy neshomos praying the better for my lowly tefillos to reach higher than… Read more »
why all this infantile bickering? Can we all just focus on one goal. ahavas Yisrael, which leads to Ahavas Hashem which leads to Ahavas Hatorah. the ultimate goal is Moshiach and the bais Hamikdash which has a different set of tunes to daaven with ( Shlomele’s will certainly be obsolete then). Good Luck.
And what is the problem with a woman giving the dvar torah? And give me a reason from a halachic or chissidishe source, and cite the source.
Why doesn’t someone write an article about them?
Go Chezi!
I have a question for you Yael: when you take a very fancy dish from your fridge and it stinks, do you analize it to find out what kind of bacteria is causing the foul odors, in order to perhaps eat it, or do you throw it out and rather make yourself something else to eat, simple however healthy. You know exactly the answer to your own questions. It is not listeria or e. coli, eat it!
When I read your comment I vomited. I hope you are being sarcastic !!!
Talk about PR! Go Chezie Go!
Just curios why almost 200 people write all types of vicious garbage about people and Rabbonim and nobody has the guts to even write their names.
Seriously get a life! and if your embarrassed about what your writing, that you “don’t even say who you are” then say chitas or rambam with the time you waist writing here.
amazing answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A MUST-READ FOR ONE AND ALL!!
you write:
“your kids are going off the derech”
not sure who you are…but you sound a bit high and mighty, Crown Heights has got lots of issues, but unfortunately there are kids are going “off the derech” all over the place…
You ask “What’s wrong with being inspired by the Chabad born composer Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach?” Just google his name… he definitely is NOT someone you want to be inspired by… “In 1989 feminist group Women of the Wall defied the Orthodox Jewish establishment and read from their own Torah scroll at the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Shlomo Carlebach, steeped in Hasidic tradition but committed to the spiritual rights of women, was the only male rabbi present. An orthodox rabbi by training, Rabbi Carlebach took down the separation between women and men in his own synagogue, encouraged women to study and… Read more »
The path to &?## is paved with GOOD INTENTIONS.
I WISH 770 WOULD HAVE A- NO TALKING -POLICY !
THAT IS THE ONLY REASON I DONT LIKE TO DAVEN THERE ….IT IS A DISGRACE WHAT GOES ON BLATANT TALKING WHERE IT IS OSUR TO TALK ….PERHAPS READ WHAT IT SAYES IN TANIA ABOUT WHAT TESHUVAH TO DO IF TALK DURING DAVENING!
KOL HAKAVOD IF NO TALKING LIKE IN THE CHABAD SHUL I DAVEN IN IE.BEIS MOSHIACH U.K.
I didn’t see your protest when the CHJCC had it’s annual Purim Seudah some years mixed seating and others no Mechitza.
171 an emese guy bravo!!
There seems to be a number of well intentioned plp. who attend this Shul.
Maybe ask Chezzy who his Rov?
When making big moves like such a shul, a Posek needs to be contacted!
I heard they put “dope” in the cholent, is that true too?
I mean these rumors all mean nothing. Why don’t you go check out the shul for yourself, then start commenting or acting!
Is it only me that thinks this whole article is a publicity stunt?
A good one though! 🙂
Look how many responded and how the name of the shul is now out there!
Good job Chezzi! Hatzlacha!
Mearat hamachpeila is NOT a chabad shul
Yes the Denenbeim’s and Garelik’s are Grandchildren of R’ Shalom Posner, but they are also true Chasidim and would never do anything against the Rebbie’s Ratzon C”V
if you want mixed seating, there is a reform temple in front of the central library on Eastern pkwy
Thank you for calmly clearing that up. Now everyone can take a deep breath and slowly exhale.
In general a Shul that attracts those otherwise not going is positive. I’d suggest the Rabbi be in very close contact with Chassidishe Mashpia to assure it’s all being done in accordance with the avira of Lubavitch as Crown Heights in not a non-frum community where a “Chabad House” fits. I have not seen this myself but was told by someone who did that a woman has given the D’var Torah which for obvious reasons might be unacceptable for a CH shul. Just because we love all Yidden does not make it ok to lower our standard to bring them… Read more »
To #113:
“Most women were dressed in accordance with Halachic requirements, many men had beards”
If you had to describe any Shul in Crown Heights (or many other communities for that matter), would it not be realistic to say that exact same quote?
Do you realize the situation or is your head buried in the sand?
Friends…the tone here is mistaken..we are unfortunately talking in a tone that this generation simply doesn’t relate to ..sadly we are talking to the rebbe s yisomin as painful as that may sound ..we must talk sensitively and with love to children who never met their father ..watched role models that confused them and thus ask these questions like the tam who asks mah zoos..is singles clubs…college..carlbach okay..how should they know that the rebbe poured out his very soul to preserve a community with purity and one that his predecessors would recognize and be proud of..do they know that the… Read more »
Come to Chabad of Agoura Hills Ca. Most of the singing is Carlebach. People love it.
While Chabad out of town is striving to grow in Yiddishkeit, CH is pulling us down. Out of Towners fear sending their kids to study in CH. Your Tznius would make you comfortable in Conservative Temples. CH residents: Wake up from your slumber. Your kids are going off the Derech and you are asking why. Your behavior is alien to Lubavitch. Those that remain B’Ruach Chabad are goung into the minority. Wake up before it is too late.
Everybody (Rabbonim and the general community members), wake up and smell the coffee. The pot is burning!!!! Crown Heights (the frum part of it) people aren’t what they used to be. There is a need of leadership and a place for people to go to learn and understand what we are as Chabadniks.
My Shabbos guests, who went to CAY, said it is run as a Chabad House style shul. If it’s good for shluchim to do around the world and across the country, why not one in Crown Heights. Open your eyes everybody, CH needs a Chabad House!
When somebody threatens to have Ahavas Yisroel in our community there will tremendous opposition, our community needs Machloikes.
to be honest,if l hadn’t gone to bais chana by the fellars,l would not have stuck it out in ny. l was very unhappy,it was very different than what l saw at bais chana. l have not been to the new shul,but l know that we all feel a need to be wanted,this my answer to 68-77-78-79-88. l’ve been here since sept 75. may we have the imm geula now!
A shidduch rating? Really? How can I find out what my rating is?
Kosher Mechitza by davening, but women sing out loud and they had a meal for men and women (sitting at seperate tables) with NO mechitza, and the whole room is quite small and cozy in the first place with only ONE entrance, so it’s quite difficult for there to be proper seperation of men and women, the way it should be….
It is very dangerous to try to make what is inappropriate into something acceptable.
Certain things are NOT negotiable especially in the Rebbe’s shchuna
I think comment #16 is right on the money. Where is this Shul? Is it a cult? What kind of shul has a small mechitza or mixed socializing for seudos? I thought Chabad had basic standards at least.
Ms. Korman, I think you’ve been used. I admire you for giving your name, but I really think you’re going to regret this article. Why are YOU the only one identifying yourself? Where is this Rabbi Denenbeim? Why isn’t he speaking out? Something doesn’t seem right.
to the author, you write: “and the others (shuls) are mostly run by social or family circles”, seems like you think that you have made a thorough research of the many, many, many shuls in Crown Heights, not exactly accurate info you write…. you also write: “I discovered that there is not a man, woman or CHILD in the community who does not have a concrete opinion on the matter…” wow, again, you must be spending your days going in and out of every home in Crown Heights, interviewing men, women, and of course CHILDREN too, and have found that… Read more »
When he came to Australia in the sixties, Rabbi Y.D. Groner A”H who learnt with him in 770 asked the REBBE how should he deal with him? The Rebbe instructed Rabbi Groner that Chabad should not endorse his concert but Rabbi Groner may invite him privately to his home as a classmate. (please confirm the story) As mentioned before that by listening to a composer you become connected to him and as is well known in general and by some personal testimonies on this forum that he was a womanizer with rumer to what extent it lead to. Is this… Read more »
a Chabad minyan and a Chabad House. It would seem (I am several thousand miles away, although I am a natiive of CH and Chabad Minyonim) that there now is a Chabad House in CH. Nu. Es vet gornisht zein. Way too big a deal over this. Many of you don’t remember the years when CH had many, many different minyonim, not just Chabad and the BEFEIRUSH was mechazeik all of the shuls privately and in public. If leider there is a need for a Chabad House in CH (and clearly there is) so be it. Yagdil Torah Ve’Yaadir. To… Read more »
the shul already brought unity between rabbis Osdoba and Shvwei! More power to them.
you could say the same about 770…. if you’re lucky.
Thank you Sima Chezzi and all your extended family and friends for all your great work.
Keep it up!
fundamentalism… vedal
GOOGLE HIM FROM WIKI: “Carlebach emigrated to Lithuania in 1938 where he studied at a yeshiva. In 1938 his father became the rabbi of Congregation Kehilath Jacob, a small synagogue on West 79th Street in New York City’s Upper West Side.[1] Carlebach came to New York in 1939 via Great Britain. He and his twin brother Eli Chaim took over the rabbinate of the synagogue after their father’s death in 1967.[1] Carlebach studied at Yeshiva Torah Vodaas and Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Berlin in Brooklyn, New York, and Beth Medrash Gevoha in Lakewood, New Jersey[2]. His aptitude for Torah study was… Read more »
If it is good for someone else it does not mean it is good for you.
to #62: absolutely disgusting. filthy lie. idk exactly who you’re talking about, but it would be very strange if you’re talking about chezzi. not only is he extremely popular, but a great scholar and a good guy. and certainly not an outcast. sick comment, #62
This message is a general response to lowering standards in “Lubavitch” The Rebbe had Ahavas Yisroel and was tolerant to every Yid at his level in order to create a bridge as an ENTRANCE to allow Yidden that did not grow up with Yiddishkeit and Chassidus and invite everyone in, to give every Yid an opportunity to taste Toras Chaim and become close to Hashem. Now we are using this same bridge as an EXIT to leave Yiddishket and lower standards…. We are justifying that based on this philosophy I too will be accepted (because we must love everyone) so… Read more »
Maybe you are right that Chezzi shouldnt be in CH because you don’t deserve a shul like this inside of the little box that you live….you’re not on Chezzi’s level, its just a shame that you are trying to bring him down to yours….
His intention was obviously to sarcastically point out that after someone dies (“Acharei Mos”), everyone forgets his evils and he suddenly becomes a holy person (“Kedoshim Emor”).
Let’s face it, in this new generation- EVERYTHING goes…. everything is accepted. To “feel good” and “do your own thing” is the motto of the culture around us. It has infiltrated our community- and we cannot easily answer “Who is a real Lubavitcher.” People who call themselves Lubavitch, run the spectrum from the “modern orthodox ” Lubavitchers, to overly zealous or exceedingly “farfrumt.” Each one turns off the other one! Everyone thinks that they are right and that they represent Lubavitch. That is the problem. I understand that some people have a need for this type of experience.in shul. It… Read more »
what a great advertisement. i didn’t know about this shul until the article. from many of the comments, its sounds like a shul that is warm, frum, real davening, no talking going around…thats a shul!!! im in.
by the way: do they say yechi there? whats with that? if they do, im not in. that is worse than shlomo.
Let me add this, the comments here are deplorable… For many many years I lived with carlebach / breslov guys and the WORST thing I could say is that it can be a tad weird.. You people are WHY we have so much problems! You love to boast when some non lubav learns chabad chasidus, but chas v’shalom to dare open sifrey rav nachman? We love the nigunim, we love the connectivity to G-d, the original chasidim made somersaults in the street and the misnagdim spoke LIKE YOU! So, no I do not subscribe to the hippie mentality at all..… Read more »
Rabbi Sholom Posner Rabbi Yehud Chitrik reb jj these are people that gave their lives to Judaism they dedicated everything in their live for Lubavitch Chassidus they did not sit in Vietnam or Korea. Because someone sent them. now they are turning over in their grave b\c there is a fire burning in both of there houses. you looking for inspiration learn chassidus before you daven work on yourself……… you see what shluchim do on shabbos very nice..but do you see them in the week learning and inspiring their congregants?? it’s not just a carlebach Chabad house g-d forbid and… Read more »
I love the idea of a shul of love and warmth. That is what Lubavitch means. This is what Judaism is supposed to be. (Shlomo Carlebach music is perfect for it.) I love that there’s a shul that women can really participate and become inspired in too. I think politics are taken too far.
Chezzi ROCK ON you are amazing!!!!
wonderful davening and mostly regular lubavitchers there
also very welcoming
The author claims to be unbiased and makes statements that are meant to sound as if she is totally naive such as “for some reason, there was a touch of intensity” and “there seems to be a lot of panic.”
By the time she’s done questioning the Rabbonim’s opinions and admitting that the shuld is not for the “ultra chassidish” she finally tells us her opinion of Chassidim in general: “G-d is not ruled by the ZEALOTS”
Gee, thanks.
A hospitalized person who is ill and can’t eat, you need to puree his food and spoon feed him, or feed him with iv. The goal being to eventually get him to eat solids and more sophisticated meals, and get him to be able to return “home”. A healthy person at home is hopefully able to eat properly and will not need to be spoon fed. Shluchim might need to “lower the standards”, to “spoon feed” the yisdishkeit. Because the people are not able to “eat properly” yet. Shluchim often need to operate in “life-saving” mode. Even then, they must… Read more »
Bisoich seaar choilei Yisroel vnoimar Omein
if you know them from way back you should probably know that his last name is denebeim not tenenboim
Chevra Ahavas Yisrael is an amazing, beautiful shul. Some of the comments on here are just disgusting. And a lot of the comments have to do with who shlomo carlebach was, and that doesnt really have much to do with it. I saw some really nasty comments, and 2 especially nasty ones were #78 and #79. And also I hate how everyones writing that this shul needs a respectable rabbi. Chezzi is perfectly respectable, and is fitting for the rabbi of this shul. Young people like young rabbis, too. Chevra Ahavas Yisrael is a loving, warm shul. I think it’s… Read more »
Q: Didn’t the Rebbe promote and demanded to always have tolerance toward our brothers and sisters, so why is there such opposition to a new shul with a new “derech” for CH? A: The Rebbe said many times that “tolerance” is for the outsiders, for our own there is ZERO TALERANCE. Crown Heights is suffering so much with Tznius because we made a mistake when the first lady walked on Kingston Ave not Tzniusdik, we kept quiet “tolerance”. Now the fire has spread and the damage is beyond imagination. Shame on us, Chasidey Chabad, Cochmo Bino Da’as. We should have… Read more »
Rebbe Shlomo was a tzadik nistar. I knew him closely all my life and i can say that he really was a tzadik and had no tavos at all. Remember that the Rebbe sent him to be his first Shaliach, and there were no such thing as chabad houses or shluchim back then. Chabad houses were then made modeling what was accomplished in the House of Love and Prayer. and Shluchim were trying to do what Rebbe Shlomo did. the reason why Mainstream Shluchim could not do everything that Rebbe Shlomo did, is because a regular Shalich is not a… Read more »
To the amazing amount of people on this site who are taking the words, ‘quotes’, and allegations of this article as fact, don’t you know better than that? You are addressing supposed words and actions of individuals named in this article as fact. It is not wise to base your assessment of ANY situation on an individual writer who many of you may not know and whose motivation for writing it cannot be known to anyone! This is the root of all Lashon Harah & Motzei Shem Rah & seems to be a major problem. I myself, was fooled into… Read more »
Rabbi Chezzi Denebeim has reached out to both Rabbi Shwei and the Rosh, to ensure the Shul was being operated to the full extent of Halacha, with positive responses.
R’ Kahn and R’ Korf did not themselves check out this shul – but heard this from OTHERS.
most Lashon Hara and Machlokes start this way: he said; I heard from someone;
the way to stop this is by the Rabbi checking this out themselves.
you did not tell R’ friedman all the information about the shul – you yourself dont know about this shul.
as stated above – the organizers do speak to Rabonim.
IF THE RABBONIM REALLY SAY IT’S ASSUR AS SOME CLIAM LET’S SEE A LETTER WITH A SIGNATURE! UNTILL THEN THAT CLAIM HOLDS NO WATER PERIOD!
1) “why the urgency”? From your description it would appear that Modern Orthodoxy is no longer just an epithet thrown around Crown Heights, it’s a reality. 2) “why the bad-mouthing … as if they are reforming Judaism?” Because fortunately there still remain some who recall the days in Crown Heights when men grew beards and both sexes dressed appropriately, and people aspired to move up in Yiddishkait and Ruchnius. 3) “Is it a crime to be welcoming?” Depends on what it is you’re welcoming, of course. 4) “Is there something wrong with being inspired by the Chabad born composer, Rabbi… Read more »
comment 40 “we dont give religion for love, we enforce religion with love.” thats what people dont get sure when were bringing people in we have to accept them at any level (a jew is a jew..) & yes the rebbe was all accepting,we try to help them move up keeping more mitzvos etc. but to say that this jew is a authentic lubavicher..! so yes we love evey jew,but when someone says this is lubavitch,there has to be a protest. is it mutar according to halocho,yes. but lubavitch is so much more then that.. and we saw it by… Read more »
This shul, like Basil, is the right thing in the wrong place. Both simply enable those who are contemptuous of tzinius and flout Chabad minhagim. By the way, #3, when did our rabbonim remove the issur from Satmar Hechsherim? And to #18: Rav Moishe said that milk in certain places (US and Switzerland, possibly Israel) could be relied upon, bedi eved, in case of emergency, BUT NOT FOR A BEN TORAH.
Ha. The shul pulls the snakes from their pits. “Chabad” The shul was purposely not named in a way that any snake’s fangs could hook into that aspect. But for anyone with at least a pea brain – Town of Love shares roots with Ahavas Yisrael. The shul aims for the level much deeper than the superficially named places. It also of course respects the fact that it is NOT part of the “official” “Chabad Lubavitch” movement whose governance is today as clear as 770’s cholent. (I don’t know of that which the writer mentions about some mock Trial by… Read more »
If you concider yourself lubavitch then how come you didn’t do so many thing in so many years? You’re not a lubav just by being born, you have to do it. Yes, in a lubav comunity, no mixed sitting even for classes. In the 50’s, lubavs wedding in CH would be mixed sitting and it was wrong and the rebbe was against it. And it stoped by a elder chossid which ….wtever. This is not the proper derech of lubavitch. This is crown height the rebbes shchuna and the way to be mekarev our own “unzere” is NOT by a… Read more »
Chabad represents the brain ruling over the heart, taking a step back from the emotions and analyzing any situation from a Torah perspective. If you crave emotional satisfaction only, you may allow yourself to be led in all different directions without boundaries and with unforseen consequences.
What’s the address to this Seven-Seventy place?
By “cultural nuances” I assume you refer to things like language, dress and names. Yeah, I guess there’s really no point in hanging on to all that nonsense.
It’s about time that Crown Heights has a Chabad House of its own. Inreach and Mekareving locals is just as important, perhaps even more, than outreach. No talking B’shaas Hatefilah is following Halacha – sounds good to me!!
i could write for 2 hours first i dont have the pations 2nd i cant spell good.for those who understand what im am tryind to say i think the problem is she is looking at crown heights thougt baalas teshuvas glasses and a fundation has to be stong with out compromise to say a little bit like this and a little bit like that is a problem and i can go on and on. PS were is this shul it sound like my type of place
I’m impressed by how unbiased she sounds! Definitely not trying to push a specific side.
Chabad Houses are not Lubavitcher Shuls!
Ms. Korman, when I first started to read your letter you came across as being sincere in your quest for an answer. I was gearing myself up to answering your questions at length. but, as I read, the tone in your letter changed from a sincere question to a rant.. Ms Korman, you have no right to come to our community and lecture us on what a Chasidishe community should look like. Whoever recommended that you move here, did so prematurely, as you are clearly not ready to live in a full fledged Frum community. A Chabad house would better… Read more »
This article does not seem unbiased. In addition, unlike the writer’s assertion, many people have NOT heard of this complicated story at all, such as myself and my acquaintance.
I am not sure what the point is aside from a subtle put-down of what she calls ‘ulta-orthodox’ members of the community. But then, that seems to par for the course these days. As #43 says, I wish her success in finding a shul that works for her.
You can best gauge your success through detractors. The Rebbe constantly dealt with opposition from halachic stances to hashkafah and everything in between. So long as Chevra Ahavas Yisroel is doing everything according to Torah (which they most certainly are, with advice from rabonim and mashpiim) they should be very proud of what theya re accomplishing.
The issue is larger than C.A.Y. Lately, our Hashkafa of what is acceptable for a Frum community has been blurred, by us using the same yardstick that we use to determine what is kosher for a Chabad house. The fact that something is done in a Chabad house does not mean it is correct, especially not for a Frum community. There are many things ( like mixed shiurim) that Rabbonim were “Matir” for Chabad houses, only because of the extreme necessity. The very same “peuloh” that is praised in a Chabad house is considered a huge “Pirtzah” and forbidden amongst… Read more »
you see you ask a very simple question, why can’t we do this? why the opposing? why the negativity? if we are all about love! see shlomo carlebach (whom i refuse to call reb for the simple reason that he caused the Rebbe a lot of anguish, so much so that the Rebbe would not start a sicha when he came into 770 for a visit until after he left the premises) as u say USED to be a Lubavitcher but then he went his own way and made it mutter to shake woman’s hands etc. Lehavdil there was a… Read more »
“Most women were dressed in accordance with Halachic requirements, many men had beards”
do you relize the sickness???
I went to Shlomo’s House of Love and Prayer in S.F. as a teen.in the sixties .My sister, who helped bring me to Chabad is Carlebach .I saw him in the eighties in SF My dad spent Shabbas with him and Shlomo dedicated a song on one of his albums to him,as well as another song to two of my nieces on another album.I saw Shlomo a week before he died at a wedding that he mikaddesed in Kadita,Il. We all have our good points,and we must be ever vigilant in exactly how we define the words freedom and love.… Read more »
#33 and 34,
Rav appel’s cafe rimon shiur is mixed, were it not for the females that typed for me, I’d have not learnt much torah for 3 years.
Mearat hamachpela davens carlebach. When are they going to have mixed seating?
At least they sing and not talk during davening!
Singing ana b’koach friday night nusach carlebach rates with the deveikus of the daled bavos for me. Shavateinu kabel, ushema tzaakoteinu!
As always, my apartment in chevron is open to any one that wants to expirience shabbat in chevron
when i was a 14 year old girl just becoming frum,i attended a kumzitz with shlomo carlbach at a private home here in LA .i was introduced to him and let’s just say he was friendly in a very physical manner. he was a charismatic and talented individual but we as chasidim have to be honest with what’s what.
SHLOMO CARLEBACH WAS NOT BORN LUBAVITCH. HE BECAME LUBAVITCH LATER, AND LEFT LUBAVITCH EVEN LATER.
Carlebach’s argument with the Lubavitcher Rebbe was if one may compromise Judaism/Shulchan Aruch to bring Yidden closer to Yiddishkeit.
Go with whom you want, just don’t mix up the opinions.
While I appreciate the author’s intent, she seems to have some misconceptions that I would like to clear up: 1) Sure, we sing some Carlebach tunes, but it is no more Sholom inspired than it is inspired by Modzitz or Karlin. 2) The Mechitza was extended to accommodate the growing crowd, by the Shul leaders themselves, with no input from the Rabbonim. I’m not sure where Yael got that from. 3) Yes, Rabbi Chezzi has reached out to both Rabbi Shwei and the Rosh, to ensure the Shul was being operated to the full extent of Halacha, with positive responses.… Read more »
I finally found a shul where the Davening isn’t rushed, there is no talking during Davening, I could Daven loud and with a chayus, and there is so much meaning in the davening experiance. It’s sad to hear what people are saying about this Shul who never steped foot in. This is truly a Shul that I can say without a doubt that the Rebbe is “Shepping Nachas” Mosiach now!!!
There was a yeshiva bochur who spoke to his Rosh Yeshiva: “Rebbi, I keep dreaming that Hashem speaks to me” The Rosh Yeshiva answered “Ofcourse you are a yeshiva boy, you think of Hashem all day; you dream of Hashem at night” The yeshiva bochur answered ” But Rebbi, I never think about Hashem, I am too busy between all the sedarim,minyanim,preparing for fahers, when do I have time to think of Hashem?” Lyder, I think this story speaks truth for many of us, despite all we do as Chasidim we simply forget about Hashem. It seems this Shul tries… Read more »
All you nah sayers are comitting a shem rah! 1st of all the kiddushimg are NOT mixed, only once was the shiur mixed all the other time Chezzi stands and the women sit on the womens side and the men on the mens side. 2nd, we should be applauding a shul where WOMEN LEARN CHASSIDUS!! The women learning Chassidus are dressing very tznius! Also those self appointed Collive comment poskim should know Chezzi changed where the men and women sit out of TZNIUS concerns! There is no halacha being broken here, unlike in most shuls in CH where there is… Read more »
The Rebbe told Zalman Posner (chezzi denenbaums grandfathar!) That shlomo carlbach is – gilui haerva mamash! But that is not the main issue here. Pls see the famous pesach sicha in lekkutei sichos chelek aleph, in which the Rebbe asked why the first of the four questions that we ask on Pesach is “matbikin” (dipping) which is only a minhag? And the Rebbe goes on to explain the importance of a minag, and how dropping minhagim lead to dropping the whole Torah.
I’m not into politics. I am into standing up to what is right. This shul is a beautiful shul that shows so much warmth to anybody that walks in. This shul is one of the only shuls I’ve been to that when the torah is being read people are quiet and are there to daven. This shul is a completly kosher shul you can’t even see the opposite sex. This shul has so many members who now have a shul to daven in. This shul is a beautiful and an sinpiring place. So before you bash this shulmaybe come try… Read more »
The mechitza was not long enough the first week because SO many more ppl came than they expected! Chevra Ahavas Yisroel is a wonderful shul. Shabbos now feels so much richer… though I definitely don’t get as much rest, now that I’m making an effort to be in shul on time! I look forward to Rabbi Chezzi’s words of Torah and the most beautiful davening in Crown Heights. “Ahavas Yisroel” was truly the best choice of a name for our shul, as people are genuinely friendly and warm. (And by the way, I can only vouch for the girls, since… Read more »
I was opposed to this Shul until i walked in there. People: there wasn’t a single impropriety there even in spirit, to all those saying things about mechitzas (including respected rabbonim) you simply haven’t been there, there wasn’t a single moment over shabbos that the men and women were together, always separate, always a full mechitza, always sincere behavior by the boys and the girls. I still don’t like everything about the atmosphere there but thats because i’m very old school and not ready yet, i cant put my finger on it but there’s something necessary about this place, and… Read more »
one of the biggest issues i have with crown heights in how ignorant people formulate and spread misconstrued opinions on others (im referring to some of the comments, and the rumors going around)
Let’s just face it. Hundreds of years of avodah and haskala by sincere frum ideological Jews, has officially come to an end. Our lubavitch today is so far removed from the ideology of Chabad. Chabad represented holiness and avodah. We were on par and surpassed the ideals of the chassidishe communities of boro park and williamsburg. Now we are worse than the communities of flatbush or long island. At least their women dress tznius and the men who shave wear white shirts and tzitzis. I support this shul. There are hundreds of people in Crown Heights who see nothing wrong… Read more »
Chezzi, I’m so proud and I’m shepping nachas! You’re doing a great job!
all of you commenting on mixed seating and the like, have you ever been to the shul? there is no such thing. there is a full mechitza. the davening is beautiful, they have shiurim, there is absolutely NO TALKING during davening-I have been to quite a few shuls in CH and that is a big deal. I don’t understand how all these people who have never been to CAY can have such strong opinions about our wrongdoings…
dont choose and pick which sichos you are gonna listen to and which ones not
you choose the ones about loving every jew but you leave out the sichos how the rebbe speaks about how to make a shul how do behave in shul how to behave in crown heights
thats why we have rabbonim and mashpiaim to tell us what we dont know
no since you dont know and they do know thats why they are panicking because they know!!
The info here is misconstrued. The shiurim aren’t mixed and the mechitzah is halachically sound. Rabbi Chezzie and Sima Denenbeim are doing unbelievable work. A friend of mine told me this week it was the first time they davened in over a year!
Excuse me everyone, i have never in my entire life enjoyed the experience of friday night davening as much as i did in CAY shul i feel the warmth, happiness and it inspires me for the rest of the week, so for the people who cant connect like I do and the rest of the shulgoers do, then go think of something else you would like to sit and crush…because it is always the same people who enjoy crushing every single new idea in CH, this place needs change along with the generation. Why cant people live and let live… Read more »
Everything new brings controversy.
Don’t be dissuaded I as well as many other people I’ve spoken to think it’s a beautiful thing.
not suporting or condemnig but the arguments here are foolish:
I went to the temple on brooklyn and union ave*. last Shabes it was of a great athmosphere!
Let’s all go…
*Reffering to the church CH”V…
I also stopped by to check out the hype and it’s basically a regular Lubavitch Shul where people actually daven.
The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.
we learnt ומקרבן לתורה we bring them closer to the torah
not ch”v the torah closer to them.
וד”ל
metahair hatmaiyim ,umetamay hathorim
I was at the shul last week. It was very nice to see younger people who are from Lubavitch homes, and they are enthusiastic about davening, and infuse energy into it. However, they need guidance as they are a young clan, with no leadership. IF they get an authoritative and respected Rabbi to lead them at least remotely, that will help a lot. As well as people recognizing them as an “inreach” type of shul. As opposed to a mainstream Chabad shul which is much more black and white.
Good luck to them.
most frum,
most jewish,
most normal,
Since when has chabad house practices become acceptable for mainstream Lubavitch community’s?
Are we are going to accept people driving to this new carlbach shul?
where is this shul located what to check it outI must locate to another shul
i never heard from my mashpiyim that lubavich is loving. iwas told we are idealistic, strong, extra frum and will not put up with nonsense.
its much worse than people say. theres mingling in the back of the shul, no mechitza for shiur, and most of the women are not dressed in accordance with halacha.
AS WELL AS EVERY ROV IN THE COMMUNITY, HAS CURSED THIS PLACE.
IF WE DO NOT FOLLOW THE RABBONIMS UNANIMOUS CALL, WHAT DO WE HAVE THEM FOR????????
lubaviotch stands for torah, not love. love is the way lubavitch spreads torah. if this place is not conducive to spreading torah values, it is against lubavitch. period.
the issue is not the halacha, rather the break in tradittion. this will lead to worse. if you throw out the bath water, the baby may go with it!
first to #9 written like a true BT who is trying to sound like a geza. give it up. We bt should be proud of how we are. How dare anyone compare CH shul to a chabad house. In a chabad house the shluchim go out of their way to raise the standard of davening, lecture etc. To be realistic, not always can they enforce what they want. But in CH to lower our Lubavitch standard, to have to be told to raise the mechitza, to have mixed seating for a lecture. This should be unheard of in CH. At… Read more »
I am not coming to disagree with the concept of this new shul. But how dare you refer to Reb Pinya Korf and Reb Yoel Kahan as “zealots”?! The fact that you can call 2 of the leading chassdim of our times “zealots” shows that you have no understanding of “Lubavitch” or “Rebbe” or” Chassidim” and you have no place penning an Op-Ed in a frum Lubavitch forum. Nor does a 24 year old newly married “Rabbi” have the right to come into Crown Heights and rip down the levels of chassidikite that barely exist in our community. Open your… Read more »
CH shuls are, and should be different than chabad houses!!
I have visited Chevra Ahavas Yisroel twice and I wish them well in all of their endeavors. Although I do not plan to change shul membership any time soon (being quite happy with the shul I have discovered for myself), I hope to participate more in CAY’s activities. What CAY’s detractors do no understand is the important need for such a shul in Crown Heights. The neighborhood is no longer just a center for conventional Lubavitchers. There is a younger generation of Lubavitch-born and new comers in Crown Heights that seek something different in their shul experience and somewhere they… Read more »
of any girl seen there!
THIS IS ALREADY A FACT
if all the people so close to the rebbe are outraged, there must be somthing wrong here
its amasing, so many comments, and no one makes mention of the fact that rabbis korf and kahan, shwei and osdoba are sitting together!
i think that says a lot. it shows that on this issue everyone (sane and objective) agrees.
A shule is a place:
1. Where people daven (check out some other shules in CH)
2. With a minyan (dito)
3. People dont talk (dito)
4. Halocho is kept (dito)
5. People have respect (dito)
…
…
…
20. Hergeshim
GO Chezzi Denebeim trailblazing a real shul in crown heights where davening is the main thing and all the kanoim should go there and see its a beautiful shul
Go Kelly!!
yes reb yoel spoke to the involved, and tried speaking to ari chitrik, the father in law of the defendant. but to no avail.
reb yoel has not yet gone public about this, so its not his fault.
besides, do you know who reb yoel is? do you tjing he has to lower himself to talk to that kind of junk?
I think as long at there is a mechitza and there is a Rabbi there a son of a great shliach is my motto is live and let live.
Would you rather people not in shul and …. if it was your kids would you not be happy they are davening in a shul with a 30 foot mechitza than running around texting shabbos.
Now I must say i dont know the crowd who goes but live and let live
Thank You to Rabbi Denebeim and all those involved in making this Shul happen. It is a beautiful Shul, begashmious uveruchnious! I have been craving this type of singing and excitement for davening for a long time. There is a warm and sincere energy there that is hard to find other places aside for Israel. Thanks for making a place for Crown Heights people to be inspired by yiddishkeit. May you go mechail lechail!
THANK-YOU for all you heartwarming and thought-provoking articles, and all the joyful and appropriate pictures and news you share with us. I check your website more than twice a day and i am proud to be one of your fans!! PLEASE PLEASE lets work on ourselves and not allow Loshon Hara, or outright rudeness and disrespect, on this website which is usually a source of great Nachas!!!! to Klal Yisroel and to the Rebbe! It pains me that as a community we are allowing negative and hurtful comments to be publisised about Shlomo Carlebach, a young Rabbi called Chezzi Denenboim,… Read more »
so misguided.
it shows we have to invest more in our baalei teshuva
SAID THEY SHOULD BE PUT IN CHEREM! THIS IS WHAT CHEREMS WERE SAVED FOR, THROUGHOUT HISTORY!
– a bochur in ot.
ps. reb yisroel said thet the biggest misnagdim would never have managed to do such damage to chassiduss and the rebbes name. these are the avigdors of our time!
if we would be chassidishe bochurim, we would never have let this happen!
Please guys don’t let bored hopless people put you down, Are Rabonim do nothing to help just criticize we at Bais Shmuel DO and ignore the critics and 95% of CH knows and sees what good we do not just for are self but for the community and I’m sure you guys will be the same way!!!!
SO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!
Thanks Moshe and Noach!!!
thisis amasing! reb yoel himself! and do the big chassidim still think its “satmar” to deal with issues?
and is pinnye korf also satmar?
i learned with them in yeshiva, they failed at gemara, struggeld with davening and were outcasts of the social groups. so now they’ve decided to gain popularity by dropping standards.
The founder of the Shul does not intend on having mixed affairs ENDO STORY!!! so I’m not sure what the author is inquiring about??? Great halachic questions with no relevance to the shul….
The Mechitza has been 100% the same every one of the 5 weeks the shul has been opened!!! Not sure where the author got her information from….
A proud member of Chevra Ahavas Yisroel!
yael, you are a victim of propoganda, a product of brainwhashing from the secular elements within our community. if you honestly want to know the rebbes opinion, open any likutei sichos, igross or any other book from the rebbe. there will be no roo m for questions.
So the author found her place at this shul. Great,good for you. No need to be defensive and put down the other community shuls. All, with the minor exception, have a women’s section. And no, they are not all organized around family connections, though shul goers generally get close and form a social group over time. Go anywhere consistently,and you too can become a member of that mini-community.
There are many welcoming accessible shuls. Bais Levi Yitzchok, as one example, is a Chabad House within Crown Heights and is very friendly, with a Rabbi and Rebbetzin attentive to the congregants.
a) I personally love the idea of this shul and am very happy that people took the initiative to create a shul for “the people”. b) The autor seems very simplistic and naive, as I noticed from many points, to think that this would be well taken by all or most Crown Heightsers. It’s not about Halacha it’s about their comfort zone. (your new, you’ll learn) c) To those who say that a Rov needs to put their name on it. I have yet to see a Rov in CH stand up for principle over public opinion. Also, (if it’s… Read more »
IS THAT NO ENOGH TO TEACH US WHAT THE REBBE THINKS ABOUT HIM, THE WAY TO DEAL WITH BREACHES IN HALACHA AND WHETHER ONE CAN BE KICED OUT OF LUBAVITCH. THERE WAS ONCE SOMEONE IN CHARGE OF THIS PLACE.
I have not had a chance to visit this new shul, but I do hear that by Havdalah the lights are shut and there is a half hour production of men and women singing together. is this true?
1)Many Chabad Houses daven with Shlomo’s nigunim. 2)Just look everywhere, so many Lubavitch events are mixed sittings, but no one complains! 3)Finally the “geza” kids who actually lead the “secular revolution” will have a place to daven and come backe to yideshkit! 4) Most shul have the same screanings as the TSA before they take you to be a membr, so it’s nice to have a place without this kind of atitude 5) The establishment feel thretend with their power and controll, they don’t move a finger when all this other things happening in our community! As long as you… Read more »
The author is by no doubt representing the shuls “Rabbi and Rebbetzin” and voicing their thoughts, feelings and frustrations, under the mask of her own pen. Very wrong.
there isn’t one thing that is mixed in that shul, shiurim kedushim etc. are all seperated, why be Motzi La’az?!
what the rebbes opinion is more than any one else. if he beleives this should be stopped, dont preach to him about love. its out if love of hashem, out of love to the rest of ou and our children that hes working on this.
I had never heard of this shul, and have never davened there. But about carlbach: read a little bit about conversations between the Rebbe and R’ Carlbach and it’s pretty scary — do you think the Rebbe would be happy about or approve of a carlebach shul in CH? Yes, Lubavitch is about accepting others, but only while we’re standing strong in our own personal standards. We bring others to the Torah, not bring the torah to them. That was the problem with carlbach — that his love for others and trying to bring them closer to yiddishkeit caused him… Read more »
The picture above doesnt do justice to the Rabbi, here is one that does:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs791.snc4/67116_110869005653442_100001910306805_90099_7947350_n.jpg
I have no idea of the extent of the meeting, but may want to note that R’ Chezzi Denenbeim and R’ Levi Garelik are cousins
You ask Does Lubavitch not mean love? Do we stand for acceptance of every individual? Is there not a teaching that one must judge each other favorably? Has the Rebbe not taught that every Jew and Jewess can and should serve god on their own level? How do these Rabbis understand the Chassidic premise of Ahavas Yisrael? Yes! lubavitch means love. and we accept every individual and we have to judge favorably etc. but that has nothing to do with what parents, and Rabbi’s and Community leaders want for their children. If Chas vishalom a parent has a handicapped 12… Read more »
Some time after Shlomo Carlebach was niftar I asked the Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi CM Bukiet if it is permissible to listen to his music. His answer, with a smirk, was “Achrei Mos Kedoshim Emor.” I took that as a yes.
Please try and find me one “Issur” they transgress that is written in shulchan aruch, and I will respond.
To those who believe that this can compare to “Reform” and “Conservative” modernized views. stop being so apathetic to what some young people need. could we perhaps compare you to well known anti Chabad chauvinists who try and compare Meshchistim to “kaviyochol” “yoshke”! do you really want to go there, trying to compare evils?!
Seriously knock some sense into your jaded and rigid head.
“Learn a mamaer on seichel hayoshar”!
D.
Shiurim (Torah Classses) at most chabad houses are mixed!
I had the opportunity to visit Ahavas Yisroel last week for shabbos morning davening. I found the melodious atmosphere to be most uplifting. Unfortunately, I too sensed that there was an air of nervousness in the crowded room.
I wish the author much success in finding a comfortable place to connect to the Ribono shel olom.
comment 3 shows a stupid ignorant person
All this talk about HASHKAFA… A shul that a) has a shiur before Davening b) starts on time c) has no talking and d) inspires those who Daven there to improve in their AVODAS HASHEM would make the Rebbe truly proud!!! KOL HAKAVOD
the problem with the shul is a full length discussion, (shlomo carlebach is a דבר האסור in lubavitch) not for now. men and women can not sit together for anything. in general lubaitch is chassidus which is to go לפנים משורת הדין, which is not only to follow what is said in the shulchan aruch but also to follow the “life of a yid” and the “beyond the letter of the law, which is implied by the shulchan aruch. and this shul (along with many others) dosent really follow those standards. ועוד והוא העיקר, the whole talk about Lubavitch being… Read more »
A shul with a strict NO TALKING clause is something to imitated not criticized! Hatzlacha
Every CHABAD shul in the world incorporates his tunes into the davening. Does that make them carlbach shuls??!! Obviously not. It’s simply because they are easy “sing along songs” which creates a sense of unity amongst the people. Chabad niggunim are also sung at this shul i went two weeks ago to check it out… Was the best davening I had in a long long time. Thank You Chevra Ahavas Yisroel for being a source of true Chayus to this community.
I heard about the “controversy” and went to Daven there this Shabbos. And I was so happy with the shul. Nice Davening, NO TALKING, and beautiful 9 foot mechitza! What more can you ask for? May they go mechayil el chayil.
they were never told to do anything about a mechitzah because there never was an issue to begin with, that is an utter mistake.
Please know that it is forbidden to use Shlomo Carlebach music to Daven with or to listen to. All Chasidishe Rebbes in Boro Park and Williamsburge etc have banned it. Music which inspires needs to be authenticated by someone responsible. Like our rebbe taking the French National anthem etc. The same reason we are not to be inspired by non jewish love songs. Even if it looks good and feels god it needs to be certified by our Rebbes. Most important Reb Shlomo was NOT certified in his songs and his actions. Even MORE IMPORTANT IS: We thank Hashem have… Read more »
mixed seating at a chabad event, especially so in shul, is inappropriate (listening to a speaker)..
There is something wrong with having a shiur mixed with men and woman! look in Shaar Halacha uminhag where there is a letter form the rebbe in regarding this matter! even in russia the Rebbe was Matir bdieved a mixed shiur due to the extreme circumstances! I have no issue with your new shul but not in CH! Dont convince yourselves that your doing the right thing, ” its only mixed shiurim and its only mixed kiddushim etc” thats how the yetzer harah works as Chazal say ” hayom omer lo asei kach.. ad shomer lo leich vavod.. ” enough… Read more »
There are over 100 people who come to shul on friday night, shabbos day, mincha, seder niggunim, mariv, and havdallah. Many people, like myself, who haven’t been to shul in YEARS. And, we are lubavitch. This shul is welcoming and warm, non judgmental and sincerely into davening. There’s even NO TALKING!?!?!! Finally, a Chabad house for lubavitchers.
I’m sure the Rebbe would be proud of this shul.
i think this shul is a nice shul. live at let live…as long as there is ahavas yisroel….
“Ok, so the elder rabbis called in the younger rabbi and made him extend the mechiztah…” every frum chabad person knows that a shul needs a full mechiztah. period. “What’s wrong with compromising on cultural nuances, to attract more people to prayers?” in chabad we dont do that. Moses Mendelssohn did. We don’t compromise, on anything. “Has the Rebbe not taught that every Jew and Jewess can and should serve god on their own level? ” Yes, but not in their own way, in the way of Shulchan Oruch only. G-d’s way is the Shulchan Oruch. “This is a democratic… Read more »
It’s a kosher shul. A kosher mechitza. So thy sing carlebach . . . this is done in many Chabad houses around the world.
In 1971 I stumbled into “The House of Love and Prayer” and from there met R.Shlomo and thus began my return to Judaism.It was R. Shlomo’s music that aroused my neshama.
And many people do not realize that many of the niggunim chosen for nusach t’fillah are those very songs which he composed..Next time you go to a chasseneh,listen closely after the chupah to”Od Y’shama”
Did R’ Yoel Kahn [who never gets involved in this kind of stuff], and R’ Pinchas Korf talk to Chezzi Denebeim? To listen to his side of the story? I’m sure they did not!
This a beautiful shul were Yidden get together to Daven and learn torah!
Grrrreat letter and post and time for our kehilla to stop looking outward and take a good long look inward about whats working. Go Yael.
Chezzi Denebeim is doing a great job in this shul.
if you dont want to support thats your buisness – but do nt attack this good thing.
So you discovered that there is not a man, woman or child in this community that doesn’t have a concrete opinion on the matter. How many people did you talk to after doing SOME homework? Did you ask the rabbis that you quote in your article what was their issue with this shul? Or did you just interview every other man, woman and child in the community?
According to Torah you have to listen to both sides.
So please do not condemn before you did so.
Well put, and good points raised.
What I dont understand is if you are who you say you are, then what is exactly your point in writing this! You say that you finally found a nice and welcoming Shul, great. Then, consult the Shul’s Rabbi on all matters. I am sure that he will have good and satysfying answers for you. Putting these questions (which are not new at all, but people always struggled with these and similar questions..) to the public, wont resolve anything and will confuse you more. I’m afraid.
Hatzlocho to you and keep going to Shul.
The writer states that she feels “There was a touch of intensity…….this is just not another Shul…” She on her own felt that something wasn’t quite right. The fact that the congregants are not comfortable makes me suspicious that something is just not right.
“Take your talents to South Beach.” What is wrong with people. Why do people have to be so politically correct? “LIVE AND LET LIVE”? That is so irresponsible. You’re probably the same guy that supports Darfur. Nobody wants to get involved in anything anymore. I am in no way implying that this should be done in a way of belittling hate etc.
Poor world, the future looks bleak, but don’t be a victim.
To treat such a basic component of a Shul in so casual a manner, and to excuse it as a matter on inexperience is in itself an indication of the problem.
“Ok, so the elder rabbis called in the younger rabbi and made him extend the mechiztah. Of course, he complied. Fine, granted. That’s the Beth Dins job, to guide less experienced rabbis as how to run a Shul”
Who are YOU to ask such a question? Where are you going to draw the line? Have a bit of kabolos ol in your life!? At least for now the questions still have SOMETHING to do with judaism. I am expecting the next question to be what is wrong if MOST of the women dress tznius.
To comment #2 that is completely not the issue at hand, Rabbi Feinstein also said you could rely on Chalav Akum.
Would this fly in Neville, so why Crown Heights? Why do we continuously insist on lowering our standards?
G-d save us all……..
I will let all the other issues be addressed by others not sure if here is the best place for it. As far as R’ Shlomo’s music, certanly you know that when you listen to music you become connected to the compser and his/her aspirations and yearnings. I knew Shlomo personally and though he did not care about money he was very into other taavos and you do not want your children lisening to his music. It would not be family rated for me to specify. This is fact. There are also rumors that he did not listen when told… Read more »
Yes you are missing out on something. Lubavitch loves every Jew but that still doesn’t mean anything goes. If you want to be accepted as a lubavitch shul there are certain standards that must be accepted and no we can’t move on about everything like someone referred to satmar. Mixed seating is not proper for a lubavitcher function ever. When trying to be mekarev outsiders it might be needed but once you want to be an insider you need to move to the next level and follow higher standards. As you write you are new around here before coming to… Read more »
I attended Shabbos at Chabad of Vancouver BC, the Tefilos (Prayers) are conducted with Carlebach Songs.
tis is done in many Chabad Houses.
with all the mini skirts and stiletos it seems more like the more “exciting” areas of manhattan than a makom keusha. don’t fret about secularizing ch!
was not Chabad born. His father was a yekke, albeit with a small connection to the FR.
You rock!!!
known from reb pinchas mikortz .
bing to stringet stops moshaich from coming
It’s not about Carlebach’s songs. It’s about the Carlebach movement- His shul- the ‘House of Love and Prayer” was wonderful to inspire young hippies- who then became frum and moved away from his shul because they were more religious and wanted authentic Yiddishkeit. The problem with this shul in CH is that it is based on compromised halachic standards. If the mechitza is ok,- for davening and learning, I think that it is a good place for people who NEED this kind of “new age” experience. But remember- it is not traditional, it is not Chabad, it is just a… Read more »
For all those complaining. 1) I have never Davend there, though I have heard that the ambiance there is exuberant. Were it not for these many new “shuls” in Crown Heights my friends and I would never feel emotionally comfortable in shul. 2) Yes it is important to remember that Chabad is a namesake, something we have to follow up with and live up to. But please don’t misconstrue this to denote that we have to act in a strictly “Geza” way in order to serve Hashem. For those of you who will disagree on this point, I wish you… Read more »
very well written yael… what a genuine article… you should write about other stuff too…
hatzlacha..
The best Shul in town!
Why are people so busy trying to control others? live and let live. If you don’t like this shul – don’t visit this shul. (And don’t come fundraising either)
http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/15166/jewish/Denebeim-Chezzie.htm
thanks for posting and letting us know the state of crown heights
i sincerely hope this will be a wakeup call to all those mechanchim and “big shluchim” who take the high road and think the problems won’t come knocking on their door
very well put,
The situation is many years ago Reb Shlomo was dis-mist from Lubavitch for inappropriate behavior for a Lubavitcher Chossid, However time has long past and just like back in the 70’s and 80’s during our troubled times with satmer we where not allowed to eat from certin hechsherim and now many years later B’H Lubavitch and satmer sit together helping each other it’s time to move on with Reb Shlomo as they have done in satmer and other chassidishe places where they do listen to Reb Shlomo. Lets move on
that reb moshe fienstein paskend your aloud to listen to his music
As long as they don’t call themselves an authentic Chabad Shul.