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Tuesday, 25 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 5, 2024

The Ruling on Crown Heights

Just In: Rabbi Avrohom B. Rosenberg has issued his final ruling Tuesday in the Crown Heights leadership Din Torah. Full Story, Psak

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Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D
April 19, 2010 5:51 am

#33 “It’s the American way…”
The ‘American Way’ is the ‘Torah’s Way.’
America was founded on Torah’s ideals, it’s G-dliness.
The founding fathers were G-d fearing people.
They wanted the flag of this country to feature Moshe Rabbeinu splitting the Sea of Reeds and Hebrew was supposed to be this nation’s language.
I run a class in ‘The 7 Noahide Laws’ every Yom Rishon (Sunday) at ‘The Sephardic Shul,’ 1433 President Street (Btwn. Kingston and Albany) at 10:30AM — Noon (Xtra time allotted if wished.) Teacher is Mr. Don Goodman.
‘Shul’ was kindly offered by Mr. Yitzchock Bitton.
[email protected]

What a Balagan
April 18, 2010 1:37 am

I am not sure what you call victory is a victory. When you have Rabbonim who sit on a Din Torah were they are noh’gayah bi’daver and nobody puts a stop to it, That is the reason why all the wrong that is happening here is going on . If a person is told to come to bais din A. Is a rov who is nogayah b’daver allowed to sit on it and give a psak? B. are you not sopposed to give each side to say there case and then give a psak? C. or do you yell at… Read more »

disappointed
April 17, 2010 4:42 pm

shabbos mincha the acting gabboim already violated the psak
sad

bubby
April 17, 2010 3:47 pm

yes. word is that if the women were in charge…if we could vote…things might have been better!!!

to 81 shchunas hamelech
April 16, 2010 7:59 am

i never heard the rebbe talking like this when was the big machlokes with the wind and psul in the safer torah and more
are you a chosid when you have a problem go by the rebbe step

Politics
April 16, 2010 1:11 am

I dont think the united states of America has this much ‘dirty politics”. No wonder there is a Shidduch Crisis, noone from Party A will “intermarry” with party B and vice versa, and most of those people are related to everyone in Crown Heights, so mathematically, technically and logistically half of your prospects are gone,im glad to live out of town where I am not invoved in this machale….

CHJCC
April 15, 2010 5:29 pm

While we’re talking about our community leaders how about scrutinizing the Community council? What do they really do? THey were never able to help me or anybody else that I know. If we need help we go outside CH. THe inefficiency, nepotism and utter incompetency is a shame to our community.

LABOR PAINS OF DEMOCRACY
April 15, 2010 12:28 pm

The Iraqis currently face a similar struggle as they lay the foundation for democracy, as did India, Pakistan, Russia, etc… Entire populations sending teenagers to war, the lives of soldiers and civilians put at risk in the name of freedom. My dear brothers and sisters, we received every thing we could have asked for, on a silver platter. Not to minimize the struggle we have endured until now, but new days are upon us. Those of you that have commented about the Bet Din “throwing the decision back at the community” must rethink the matter more carefully. You have been… Read more »

futur 2^1
April 15, 2010 7:10 am

REMEMBER after will be 3 rabonim , wil hapend
(also) that rabbi shway and rabi osdoba will worked together (i mean diferent DAHA) AGAINST the 3 rabbi
live is live and you go by magority for each storry

to 73
April 15, 2010 6:43 am

but the machlokes is not good
and this vaad worked on sulving this problems
that (even you) people say will never end

50 is good
April 15, 2010 6:39 am

they fixed 50% FROM THE PROBLEM the rest depend on the people in the comunity

#75
April 15, 2010 4:35 am

why are you living in crown heights?
it seams that you have all the answers and dont care for nothing in this community or anyone
go do whatever you want to do,just please dont do it here!!!
by the way torah dictates what you do,its your choice to obey.

to 71
April 15, 2010 4:01 am

obviously you did not read the psak. he had no appointment as dayan or motz so if his elections are nulified he has nothing. knowing him and especialy from what he testified on the din tora, believe me, he’s happy now and biggest winner!

to "Let's be positive, BUT................."
April 15, 2010 3:50 am

you say: “Let’s be positive” the launch into a public attack of one of the Rabbonim.
Isn’t it disingenuous?
Is there any doubt that this is violating an unambiguous public hoiro’oh/admonition, ETC…… of the Rebbe (repeated by the Rebbe for those who forgot).
Is there any doubt that this is causing the Rebbe TREMENDOUS Agmas Nefesh?!
We can all contribute to Achdus and give the Rebbe Nachas & put an end to the Tzoros, though we have Bechira.
Let’s make wise choices.

tee ess
April 14, 2010 6:24 pm

What’s the difference to me, a crown heights resident, who an “elected rav” is? I always have the option of going to any rav, elected or not, for any shaloh I choose. and no rav, even if elected, can dictate what I must do.

Same question about ChK. There are many Kashrus organizations. who cares about CHK?

to 11 and to 2
April 14, 2010 2:57 pm

stop teasing! were trying to be a peaceful community! besides why are you making as though its “teams”? this isnt color war , its the rebbes shchunah, were trying to unite together and bring moshiach we aren’t trying to resplit ourselves! we are all dissapointed with different parts but we have to accept it! thank you. im also writing this to whomever else wrote such a comment on any side

TO #52
April 14, 2010 2:13 pm

You took the words out of my mouth. Its like a king without citizens. The state of CH is such that the only people who care about the Vaad are the Tzaftim in 770. Lesson to any new Vaad: become relevant to the 70% silent majority of Crown Heights who work hard to support their families and are sick and tired of a decade of fighting. its incredible to see posts of jubilation after this vaad won the previous elections. You are winners over who? A few hot heads and rag tag group of wild yeshiva bochurim? The majority of… Read more »

who will pasken
April 14, 2010 12:42 pm

about SHTRAUS ice cream still selling in ch?
rabbi landu of bani brak said NOT to eat this ice cream
and no lubavitchers in israel using it any more.
take them off the shalves RABBIs please.

Why?
April 14, 2010 12:40 pm

Why was Rabbi Zirkind left with nothing? Who only Rabbis Raitport and Segal can remain to answer shailohs? Rabbi Zirkind is such an ehrliche guy and talmid chochom. He should also remain on board!

Let's Hope for the Best - but what if......
April 14, 2010 12:25 pm

Let’s be positive and hope for the best. But some people have a past record and it is no secret that “someone” is by nature “not a team player”. Some are born in a way where it is “my way or the high-way”. It is inevitable that any such individual – party to the Psak Din – will inevitably end up with a Siruv because they are not capable of working as a team – not team players. The most important aspect of the Psak Din is that the elected Rabbonim are all equal and NO ONE HAS SENIORITY and… Read more »

to 58 from 52
April 14, 2010 12:20 pm

To commentator #58: You are exactly what I mean! Instead of trying to listen and realize what most of the community feels and says, you try to personally attack me based on some baseless stereotype! For the record, I daven in 770 on the weekdays and at Oholei Torah Mesivtah on Shabbos (where Rav Schwei davens, FYI). Stop your hatred and start thinking about the people because and Badatz and the Vaad are only meant to be there for the people! #52 PS: You should apologise to the people of the shul and their rabbi who you were making fun… Read more »

To # 52
April 14, 2010 11:58 am

Go back to your wine tasting events.
Go Park Slope and buy your latte coffee.
Then put on your base ball outfit and play at Lefferts Park.
Then go to a shiur given by a world renowned orator, pay your dues to the “Young Israel of Chabad” and FEEL GOOD.
Your cooler than cool.
Who cares you ask? I care and so do hundreds of Anash families in Crown Heights.

to 45
April 14, 2010 11:56 am

your statement is worthless! you have no evidence. Stop saying things in the name of the Rebbe if you dont have with what to back them.

thanx to the vaad
April 14, 2010 11:48 am

great job in getting this psak
whoever isnt interested in listening,can pack their bags and leave!!
no one wants them here anyways.

remember
April 14, 2010 11:46 am

both sides agreed to listen regardles if the psak went their way or not

to #$48,49,54
April 14, 2010 11:44 am

the best thing for you guys would be to leave crown heights
theres no need for people like you here
and by the way the leader of lubavtich is the “rebbe”

to #39
April 14, 2010 11:40 am

you are exactly what the problem is

Re: 45
April 14, 2010 11:17 am

how is the elections for Gabboim against the Rebbe?
the Rebbe clearly gave the Shul management to the Rabbonim in CH.
this includes who will be Gabboim, and get Aliyos…

and yes there Robbonim held ELECTIONS for Gobboim before Gimmul Tammuz.

p.s. that is what the court ruled also, when they found in faver of the Gabboim and not Aguch.. so get over it… you lost

Pinchos Woolstone
April 14, 2010 10:47 am

a thirs new Rov
a new Kasrus board…….no jobs for the children.
new election for Vaad of CHJCC
a new election for 770 Gabboim.
sounds like a clean sweep and hopefully a better more cohesive Kehilla

like who cares
April 14, 2010 9:58 am

Do you really think by this stage , that most of our community really cares, if one Rav won or not? Nope , they dont -most just want sholom.

IYH this will be the tool to bring it.

Realy Briliant and Fair for both sides
April 14, 2010 9:55 am

I’m impressed by this Rav Rosenberg’s wisdom.

Crown Heights Resident
April 14, 2010 9:03 am

This is a huge victory for the community. For too many years Crown Heights has been destroyed by the machlokes. This is what Torah Jews do–they resolve their differences in a din Torah. Baruch Hashem Rabbis Osdoba and Schwei finally realized this–and now with the election of a third rov, will put all this behind them. And Baruch Hashem for the Vaad who had the courage to make it happen. Accomplishing this–and everything else they do for the neighborhood–is testament to the Vaad’s dedication to the ultimate good of our community. I am sure they will be reelected with a… Read more »

ayl
April 14, 2010 8:06 am

#20 lol

its a big win for the comunity

BH!

to # 29
April 14, 2010 6:59 am

The standards of many people in our community need improvement. so the Rabbonim they elect for their shuls may be such as well. that is why the Rabbonim from the bais din need to approve candidates. If what you suggest that the Bais din should get help from the rabbonim of the shuls, perhaps they should need the bais din approval as well.

SHOLOM!
April 14, 2010 6:33 am

is finally around the corner

urge agu"ch
April 14, 2010 6:03 am

now that this psak is out, i think it is time that aguc”h/va’ad rabonei lubavitch call rabbis osdoba and schwei to a din torah to sort out the issue of the gaboim, 770, and who are the leaders of lubavitch (bassed on the two tzav’os) in general. I know aguc”h/va’ad rabonei lubavitch will argue who will they go to, they alone are rabonim, how can they go to a din torah by someone else etc. but let us learn from this din torah, rabbonim can sort out their issues by other rabbonim who dont have a netiah to any side.… Read more »

to#38 and everyone in CROWN HEIGHTS
April 14, 2010 6:00 am

The coming election is NOT a referendum of to see which ROV belongs to which party. Ther is only ONE party. The party of being a Chossid of the REBBE. and lets stop all negativity lets just say BORUCH HASHEM we will all unite and be one nation, one neighboorhood and have real achdus. Hatzlachah to all all and now that this psak came out on a new month, the chodesh of IYAR _ “ANI HASHEM ROFECHAH”. Let it be a BEW BEGINING for the neighboorhood of KAN TZIVAH HASHEM ES HABROCHOH – with mush hatlzlacha and brocha and its… Read more »

who gives?!
April 14, 2010 4:03 am

The only reason I and many other clicked on this article was out of pure curiosity and gossip obsession

Except a handful of machers, nobody in this place could care less about what these people do or so

When one of us need a rabbi we go elsewhere
When we need communal help we go out of CH

Even is 800 people will vote any of you in again, remember the other 1500+ people of the shchuna who didn’t bother

Leave us be

To 9
April 14, 2010 4:00 am

“Rabbi Osdabba keeps his title as Morah Deasrah.”

It was clearly Paskend That: “Rabbis Osdoba and Schwei are the only members of the Crown Heights Bais Din and are of EQUAL STATUS”
and this was Listed as nomber 1 – so next time read the article befure you comment

Dave
April 14, 2010 3:42 am

Please post the Vaad letter released last night.

psak - go out of court!!
April 14, 2010 3:36 am

What is amazing is how much damage this new vaad did in the few short months that they took control, by force, of the offices etc. Yes, they did contribute to bringing about this psak, but Mitzvah Haba B’Aveirah…

Let us not forget the subpoenas and the damage they did to our g’machs and let us make sure they don’t get re-elected.

dont get it
April 14, 2010 3:34 am

why dont we have new elections for rabbi shvei as well? since the machlokos started when he came in!! unless a third rov which sides with osdobo wins there will be no peace in CH

For the sake of Sholom in our community, this psak should be translated into english
April 14, 2010 3:31 am

The psak is a well written and balanced document that favors neither side above the other and distributes equal power among the parties.

If more people in the community can read and understand the psak, more people will enthusiastically participate in upcoming elections.

Now what?
April 14, 2010 3:03 am

Any word on if the sides will follow this Psak?

To #6 re: Gaboyim
April 14, 2010 2:57 am

You are correct. Any past and future elections of Gaboyim in 770 are against the Rebbe. This is why at the end of the Psak (Line #55) it states that this Psak does by no means take any position regarding other issues about this psak from OTHER parties who DID NOT participate in this Din Torah. Which means that (for some reason) AGUCH did not officialy come to the 5 Rabbonim to state clearly that – according to the Rebbe – elections for Gaboyim in 770 is NOT the domain of the local Crown heights community but rather it belogs… Read more »

Great psak!!!
April 14, 2010 1:52 am

it decides that both rabbonim are the same, that the other rabonim are helpers, that the community will decide the third rav and new elections for gaboim and vaad. Since the new Vaad has a big part in getting this done they are sure to win the vote again from the community…
I plead with the rabonim to accept this psak as is. If one of the sides goes against this they will only hurt theselves as everyone will see that they are baaley machlokos and not interested in sholo.
“Talmidey chachomim marbim sholom boolam”.

New Vaad
April 14, 2010 1:44 am

is working very hard and effectively for the communiry. I personally know many people helped by them.

already ...............
April 14, 2010 12:56 am

reading these comments of people saying rabbi schwei won and others saying rabbi osdoba won has to be stopped .cant we stop this now and agree that we all won bec there will finally be peace .

The Rebbe wants you to respect both Rabbonim;
April 14, 2010 12:36 am

ANYONE doing otherwise is conducting a milchomo!! against the Rebbe (h”y)!
Let’s be smart & be aware of what we do/comment/say.
Tracht gut vet zein gut.

bias
April 14, 2010 12:20 am

is there a reason why rabbi shvei was not removed and new elections be held for him? since all the machlokos started when he came into office??

what psak?
April 14, 2010 12:19 am

they paid these rabbonim $20k for this din torah just to throw it back at the community? they were supposed to say who is right and who is wrong not try and work out a compromise!!! and say new elections!!

osdobo fan
April 14, 2010 12:17 am

Most of CH will vote for a third rov that supports osdobo. and then we will see who won!!!

smart NAS
April 13, 2010 9:50 pm

the “machlokeis’ realy started mainly bec rabbi morlow o b m passed away . (he was the leader !)
this is the TEVA < TOOK 10 YEARS to corect sum, with big NISIM OF chodesh nisan THE YEAR OF 5770 !!

Blah Blah Blah
April 13, 2010 8:03 pm

For all of you Yentes: Blah Blah Blah

no spinning this one... rabbi shwei won everything!
April 13, 2010 7:26 pm

rabbi asdobo got nothing not HIS rabbonim hot HIS kashrus not HIS vaad hakohol
it was ALL given back to the community at large, as rabbi shwei said from day 1, (and how it was sighed with rabbi asdobo to begin with), and how it was before rabbi morlow O.B.M. passed away
rabbi shwei got a seal of approval for his rabbonus and real and fair and open elections for a new rov, not someone put in by either side

Gotta take my hat off to this Bais Din.
April 13, 2010 6:28 pm

Good common sense judgment, It really gives you some faith in Halach after the mockery we’ve had here for the past 10 years or so.

God Bless America
April 13, 2010 6:25 pm

I think this is all anyone wanted, fair and transparent elections. No more holding on to power after the term is up, no more Nepotism. it’s a hard adjustment for some people in the community who still think they are in czarist Russia, but they’ll come around – Its the American way.

Thanks to the new Vaad for bringing peace!!!
April 13, 2010 6:22 pm

You earned my vote this coming election!

Making the Rebbe proud
April 13, 2010 6:19 pm

BH- such good news! all Chabad communities that have been torn apart with machlokes should take an example from our Rabbanim in CH, kan tziva Hashem es habrocha, and bring true Shalom and achdus to their communities. Together we can bring Moshiach!

May HaShem bless Rav Osdoba continually!! A true Rov.
April 13, 2010 6:18 pm

May Rav Osdoba continue his holy work with hatzlocha rabba in guzenteheit un’ frielicheheit!!

what the Rabbonim missed
April 13, 2010 6:12 pm

A well written and clever Psak indeed, however, adding one Rov alone with not accomplish anything. What they should have and can still suggest is that every Shul in the community nominates a Rav who can assist the Bais Din just like Rabbis Raitport, Segal and Zirkind, while, Rabbis Osdoba, Schwei and the third Rav will enjoy the Kavod and titles of Mara Deasra, and in truth, we already have an original elected Rav, Rav Yosef Heller who is neutral. This would give us a neutral Bes Din which will need to come up with majority consensus between themselves, but… Read more »

to dave
April 13, 2010 6:11 pm

These are tough times and I use the CHJCC services on a regular basis. The new Vaad is FANTASTIC. If you don’t believe me ask around.

If you wanna know what they’ve done, stop by the office.

Dave, to 24
April 13, 2010 6:02 pm

They brought about this psak, which can finally bring peace. But let’s not argue now, when we can see a better future in this psak… Vote for who you want to! Next election will be kosher, and hatzlocho to whoever wins!

To # 9
April 13, 2010 5:54 pm

Rabbi Schwei won and Rabbi Osdoba Lost. Because the Psak Din says that Rabbi Osdoba does not have, not even once ounce of more power, than Rabbi Schwei. This was THE entire dispute between Rabbi Schwei and Rabbi Osdoba. Rabbi Osdoba had always argued that he can do whatever he wants and Rabbi Schwei will be his “shamash” or “helper”. Rabbi Schwei maintained that he has 100% equal power to Rabbi Osdoba and that Rabbi Osdoba does not have any more “say” nor power at all, not any more than Rabbi Schwei, on all issues. The Psak Din agreed with… Read more »

Dave
April 13, 2010 5:51 pm

What has the existing vad hakol done for this community?

Please Hashem
April 13, 2010 5:50 pm

May Hashem Yisborach help that this should lead to a NEW begining, and help us begin to heal the wounds and restore true and everlasting AHAVAS YISROEL & AHAVAS CHASSIDIM in our midst. This is KEY in bringing the Geulah Shleima!

Let us get to work on LOVING our neighbors as we love ourselves

observer
April 13, 2010 5:50 pm

You really have to admit that it’s a beautifully written and brilliantly decided psak!!

It Remains to be seen....
April 13, 2010 5:46 pm

In the past, there was a Siruv issued against one of the Rabbonim for not following the Psak Din of a Beis Din of Zabla, which all parties had agreed to.

Time will tell, in this case, if everyone will listen and follow the Psak Din of the Beis Din which they themselves had chosen to rule over their dispute.

Otherwise we may find “someone” in a siruv once more.

english
April 13, 2010 5:43 pm

Somthing is very wrong if these rabbonim can put a psak to a community that 70% dont understand a good hebrew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whos going to the ohel with this beuty
April 13, 2010 5:29 pm
es zol nor nit shaten kain yidden
April 13, 2010 5:26 pm
to 16
April 13, 2010 5:20 pm

the psak says who should run the election. It’s a neutral board chosen by both rabbonim.

Shvaig
April 13, 2010 5:20 pm

all of you nay sayers and pessimists. This is a great day in CH. There is a psak din, which is what jews should be striving for! We now have a path of halocho to follow!

will not help
April 13, 2010 5:18 pm

the problem is who should run the elections? each side will want too make sure their people win

nobody won
April 13, 2010 5:17 pm

why do people think schvei won?
it depends who the third rov will be. if he favors osdobo then crown heights will be run by osdobo if hes a shvei guy then Ch will be rin by shvei after that election we will know who really won!!

We are all winners
April 13, 2010 5:11 pm

We can start with a clean slate.

A fair Election for Vaad HaKhol, Rabbanim and Gabaim and whomever the community decides will lead.

It’s in our hands now and we can finally stop fighting and be a better example to our kids.

Wow, I hope everyone goes with this
April 13, 2010 5:11 pm

I hope that we all have the strength to listen and try to unite our community once and for all. All brachos come through shalom and whatever your opinion is the last thing the rebbe left his chassidim, was that it is our job to bring Moshiach no matter what. This is our goal and having peace in the home (CH) is a very good step in the right direction and will empower us to go out into the world and bring yidden closer to yidishkait.

in the rebbe’s words: We want Moshiach now

This
April 13, 2010 5:03 pm

Is so important.

It will really change my life.

Really.

Not!

Sounds to me like the Schwei camp won big time.
April 13, 2010 4:59 pm
yeah, right!!!
April 13, 2010 4:52 pm

No relatives of theirs are allowed to run the organization (ie Kashrus supervision.) No more nepotism & skimming then? It won’t last. Corruption in all areas inc CHJCC will continue to surface.

Boyrer
April 13, 2010 4:51 pm

What a waste of time and money, they just sent it back to the community, so that they can start fighting over new elections.
But the good news is the people who burglarized there way in to the community counsel, are OUT, and Rabbi Osdabba keeps his title as Morah Deasrah.

its a chutzpah
April 13, 2010 4:41 pm

how could a “fov” charge so much money to pasken????

Huh?
April 13, 2010 4:30 pm

So the answer is a do over? Wasn’t that the problem the last election? Who is overseeing new election? Will there be two elections again? How is this a solution? DETAILS PLEASE

they have no right
April 13, 2010 4:27 pm

according to the rebbe – gabboyim in 770 can only be appointed by aguch…

fair
April 13, 2010 4:25 pm

sound fair to me and a big step in the right direction, b”h

Dave
April 13, 2010 4:22 pm

MAZAL TOV!!!! Great news! Peace is in the air!

Very Good.
April 13, 2010 4:19 pm

I hope everyone excepts this ruling. I will vote for the existing Vaad which has really proven themselves to be very efficient in a short period of time.

I hope and Pray that this will move our community forward.

big win for rabbi shwai
April 13, 2010 4:17 pm
sruly
April 13, 2010 4:15 pm

one of two things will happen peace or war. I hope and pray for the Torahs way.

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