Feb 6, 2019
The Issues with the "Bain"
Illustration photo

Op-Ed: Lately, an unusual custom has arisen where some gather on late Friday afternoons "Bain Hashamshos" to eat, drink and schmooze.

By Rabbi Aryeh Citron, Dean at Yeshivah College in Miami Beach, Florida

Lately, an unusual custom has arisen where some people gather on late Friday afternoons to eat and drink and schmooze. People refer to this as a "bain." This "custom" is problematic as our sages recommended that one not eat on Friday afternoons in a manner that diminishes one's appetite for Shabbos.

This is especially problematic if one does so on a regular basis. In addition, it sometimes happens that people continue eating after the sun sets. (Hence the name "Bain" for "Bain Hashmashos.") This is forbidden according to halacha as is also explained below:

Issue #1: Eating late on Friday Afternoon

The Chachomim recommended that one refrain from eating a meal during the last three hours of the day on Friday afternoon (Shulchan Aruch Admur Hazakein 249:9). This will keep one's appetite for the Shabbos meals.

The Ketzot HaShulchan says that, during this time one should (preferably) not eat more than the size of an egg of bread or grain food. One may, however, eat plenty of fruit as well as drink their fill of nonalcoholic beverages. In addition, it is proper to not drink more than 3 ounces of alcoholic beverages at this time.

The Gemoro (Gittin 38b) says that there was a family in Yerushalayim that would regularly have a meal on Friday (see below as what was wrong with this). This family were wiped out (as a punishment for this).

The Ramban says that although, by the letter of the law, one may eat a meal on Friday afternoon, it is forbidden to do so on a regular basis as it shows disregard for the honor of the upcoming Shabbos meal. The Alter Rebbe points out (Kuntres Acharon, 2 on Siman 249) that most authorities do not agree with this ruling. (But see below regarding a large meal.)

The Maggid Mishnah says that the family was eating a particularly large meal on Fridays larger than the meal they would eat during the rest of the week. Such a large meal is forbidden even in the morning as it is likely to ruin one's appetite for the Shabbos meal. The Halacha follows this view. As such one may not schedule a large banquet for any time on Friday. Exceptions are made for mitzvah feasts which have a fixed time such as a bris milah or a wedding. (Since a bris and wedding should not be delayed, they are considered to be mitzvos that have a fixed time.) The details of this are discussed in Shulchan Aruch O.C. 249.

Practically the halacha recommends that one should not eat more than the size of an egg of grain food (approximately four crackers) on Friday afternoon.

Issue #2: Not Eating Before Kiddush

The Gemara (Pesachim 106a) says that it is a mitzvah Min HaTorah to recite Kiddush as Shabbos begins. (But see the beginning of Siman 271 as to the custom of not making Kiddush during the seventh hour.)
It is considered an exemplary mitzvah to make kiddush as soon as possible after Shabbos begins, i.e., as soon as possible after one finishes the Friday night prayers.

Despite this, if one wishes to delay kiddush in order to increase his appetite for the Shabbos meal or in order to study Torah, one may do so. The reason for this is that, Min HaTorah, one has already fulfilled the mitzvah of sanctifying the Shabbos by mentioning it during davening. However, one should not delay the meal if this will cause discord in the home or if there are guests who are hungry. Another consideration is that if any of the guests are poor, delaying the meal might be a transgression of the law against delaying the mitzvah of giving tzedoko.

In addition, the Chida writes, one should not delay making kiddush unnecessarily by making small talk. This causes pain to the neshomo yeseira we receive on Shabbos.

Since it is a mitzvah to make kiddush at the beginning of Shabbos, the Chachomim established that one may not eat or drink anything, even water, from when the sun sets until after making Kiddush. The reason for this is unlike the reason we do not eat before other mitzvos such as Shofar and Lulav. In those cases, the reason is to ensure that one not forget to fulfill the mitzvah. In this case, it is because the concept of Kiddush is to sanctify the food we are eating and proclaim that we are doing so in honor of Shabbos. As such, by its very definition, Kiddush must be said before eating.

One who accepts Shabbos early and davens Maariv may not eat from the time he accepts the Shabbos until after he makes (or hears) Kiddush. This rule applies to both men and women. As such, a woman who accepts Shabbos by lighting the Shabbos candles should refrain from eating until after Kiddush.

One may not even drink water after sunset before making or hearing Kiddush. In this sense, Kiddush is stricter than Havdalah as, by the letter of the law, one may drink water after dark before Havdalah. (In practice, it is customary to not drink water before Havdalah.) The reason for this is that eating on Shabbos is considered a very significant act, so even a snack (or a drink) is Halachically important.

Issue #3: Excessive Drinking

In addition to all of the above, the bein sometimes involves excessive alcoholic drinking. This is not recommended except in the proper environment of a Chassidisher farbrengen and, even then, one should restrict themselves as per the Rebbes takona.

Hopefully, this information will reach those who have the bein custom, and they will refrain from it in the future.

In this merit, may they be blessed with the reward granted to all those who take pleasure in the Shabbos as is stated in the Neviim, Then you will delight in G‑d. And the Chazal state that all the sins of a person who delights in the Shabbos are forgiven, and he will be saved from the judgment of Gehinnom (Shulchan Aruch Admur HaZakein 243:1).


For references and more details - click here. To receive parsha halacha articles on a weekly basis, email rabbicitron@hotmail.com


Most Read Most Comments


Opinions and Comments
1
Jack
BSD I think you have your facts mixed up. I have observed 2 Bains-one took place in a house Friday afternoon and broke up well before Mincha; the second in a Shul with a well known Mashpia took place after Mincha and Kiddush
(2/6/2019 6:22:45 PM)
2
Not only recently
This has been going on for years in yeshiva, and I never partook in these beins since I always knew there was a problem with this, thanks for bringing this topic up. In addition to the above mentioned, most of these people participating in the beins usually miss davening mincha with a minyan as a result of this, and then show up drunk to davening kabolas shabbos, which is not respectful to hashem. Unfortunately many a people who do beins I feel in my opinion don't care as much about what halacha says, from my experience.
(2/6/2019 6:27:13 PM)
3
Shiduch
In my Shiduch seeking I always make sure hes not Bain guy. Theirs a goouishkiet about it
(2/6/2019 6:33:18 PM)
4
Thank you for printing this
As a mother of young men, I think in some circles there can be social pressure to attend these "bains." I hope this article, and the discussions it spawns, will put the pressure of halacha on people to stop.
An additional issue Rabbi Citron or others may want to address: saying L'Chaim Shabbos morning on mashke before learning Chassidus.
(2/6/2019 6:45:17 PM)
5
To #3
Oh my goodness? Is that a thing now? Like there are bein guys? Thats an actual category you have today? Im so sorry you even have to think about such things. Yes, hanging out and eating and drinking after shkia is not okay. I had no idea it was so prevalent.
(2/6/2019 6:59:17 PM)
6
bain!
some of the guys go after bench licht to a bain and dont go to davev minche and kabolas shabbos till way after the davenen has finished ! the sad part is to see young couples freshly married and the girl does not know how to handle it ! and for the fathers how do you think your children will grow up with a tatty going to bain instead of going to shul
(2/6/2019 7:04:04 PM)
7
To all commenters...
I am a proud "Beiner", I don't do it to be cool, rather to enter Shabbos with an added simcha.
I don't mean to offend anyone with my actions (although I lose out on #3 for a shidduch.....nunu ;)
(2/6/2019 7:14:08 PM)
8
Shabbos In Shul in General
I appreciate this article but this doesn't deal with the larger social issue that is going on in shuls, people do not want to davven. The Bain, Kiddish Club, and talking in shul are the consequences of a lack of appreciation for davvening.

I never understood why there was a mitzvah for coming to shul by itself but in today's day and age I get it as some individuals never even make it into shul proper with all the extra curricular activities going on outside. We have a davvening crisis and it is getting worse. Shuls have waved the white flag and excuse it by stating that if they didn't turn a blind eye to this activity then the individuals would not come to shul at all. At this point I'm fine with that dramatic solution because the current one is a mockery of what a shul is supposed to be.
(2/6/2019 7:21:32 PM)
9
The Women Work Hard
Also, when a woman works hard to prepare a beautiful delicious meal and the guys (sons, sons in law etc) arrive full, not hungry, and out of it (due to alcohol consumption), its just plain not fair.
(2/6/2019 7:24:52 PM)
10
Number7
Question:
Is it ok for me to be un-tznius or eat not kosher food to add in simcha so I can ivdu es Hashem besimcha?
(2/6/2019 7:28:22 PM)
11
Thank You
Thank You for filling your article with sources. I hope no one argues with legitimate sources from the shulchan aruch and gemora. That's just sad.
(2/6/2019 7:28:30 PM)
12
What would the Rebbe OB'm say?
What would he say about the lack of proper appreciation for Shabbos davening and for following halacha in general and the crisis of anti-Semitic attacks that are increasing.
Would he say there is no connection?
(2/6/2019 7:37:04 PM)
13
Thank you for finally bringing this up!
This is a new disease. The matzav of this generation in CH is very troubling. This is just a symptom.
(2/6/2019 7:43:42 PM)
14
People and there opinions
Tzu vishin mir un dir all those people who are complaining about this whole bain shbang dont have friends and never got invited to a Bain so they are just on the side giving there opinion that know one cares about
(2/6/2019 7:44:59 PM)
15
Toda Raba
Rabbi Citron thank you so much for clarifying this.

On a personal level I have no time for this "bein" before Shabbos im very busy helping out around the house so my Aishes Chayil can enter into Shabbos in a " heightened " state after putting so much love into preparing our familys Shabbos meal.

(2/6/2019 7:48:13 PM)
16
Great article
Yasher koach
(2/6/2019 7:48:42 PM)
17
@comment 14
I don't think that is a very nice thing to say when ppl are giving there honest opinion
(2/6/2019 7:48:51 PM)
18
To number 9
Thats why we bein with greens come hungrier to meals and daven more bekavana :)
(2/6/2019 8:01:04 PM)
19
To comment 12
The Rebbe is alive so you'd point is moot
(2/6/2019 8:02:29 PM)
20
Waking up on the wrong side of the bed!
I'm sorry that you have not been invited to any "Bains" before so you do not know what going on.
However there are many different types of "Bain's" so of them are done in a proper way, for people that are busy all we can finally catch up with friends.
And as in everything in life, everything is in time and place and how it's done.
(2/6/2019 8:03:18 PM)
21
To #14
Best comment!! 10 points
(2/6/2019 8:06:22 PM)
22

The origination of this so called shtus comes from . It speaks about how chassidim erev shabbas would drink some mashke and get in the state and mind of shabbas.
And for those who were wondering about the shiddush it says in a famous letter of chassidim of the rebbe maharash that a chassidiisher eishes chayil is someone who used to let her husband get slammed by a farbrengan.
(2/6/2019 8:07:25 PM)
23
Former Bein addict looking for a shidduch
Youre saying maybe I should marry a snag
(2/6/2019 8:08:10 PM)
24
Misunderstanding
Your article shows a misunderstanding to the whole Bain concept.
First of all many bains are actually proper shabbos meals and considered as such, most bochurim don't go eat another 'shabbos meal' and if they do it's just another meal not the shabbos meal.
Secondly proper Kiddush is made before the Bain so not to worry about that either (vedal)
Thirdly I don't know about your bochurim in Miami however the Bains I've seen are usually beautiful farbrengens, ones with nigunim, shelves achim etc. So please pick your battles and focus your attention on other relevant issues that we face.
(2/6/2019 8:11:20 PM)
25
to #14 amazingly spot on!!!!!
crazy how people find the least important things to write up about. and then there are those who encourage it in the comment section. guys if you are looking to be a satmar hater looking for issue go to wilyamsburg and throw away your smart phones (which BTW internet is a lot worse then a bunch of bochurim saying lechaim). i suggest you start acting normal, get friends and you'll be invited to a bain. enjoy.
(2/6/2019 8:17:35 PM)
26
to # 3
maybe if you got your priorities straight you would've gotten married...
(2/6/2019 8:20:14 PM)
27
Here come the Bochurim
And here come all the Young, immature Bochurim coming and justifying themselves...
(2/6/2019 8:29:12 PM)
28
Very prevelant
Unfortunately, the root of these issues run deep. Its not a CH issue; rather its an issue that begins early on in yeshiva
(2/6/2019 8:30:53 PM)
29
Kiddush club
I'm glad someone brought that up. I think it's a real Chillul Hashem & disrespectful to the rabbi when so many young men leave the shul in the middle of davening & go to the kiddush room for a l'chaim & whatever else they eat.What kind of example are they setting for their children?
(2/6/2019 8:33:24 PM)
30



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(2/6/2019 8:39:19 PM)
31
To number 12
You sound like who caused the rebbe incredible pain who said that the holocoust happened because of our you probably never learnt parshas noach before where rashi hakodosh points out that although the people rebelled against G-D they werent killed cuz of the which they had so by you saying that they yidden are suffering cuz of bein just sound very oisoi hoish inspired and mentally retarded exactly the opposite of Judaisms opinion and you dont sound like a Lubavitcher and very un-experienced in the rebbe sichos and general goal which the rebbe says multiple times that achdus is most important and besides as Lubavitchers we dont say OBM but rather shlita (as directed by the rebbe shlita)
(2/6/2019 8:52:42 PM)
32
To NJ umber 12
What are you saying obm for. You must be not chabad. Oy vay
(2/6/2019 8:54:39 PM)
33
Bein is a terrible epidemic
Started in deadtroit and cv spread. Its a deadly cancer. Bochurim are now having Bein HASHmashos with hash brownies. Oy vey! A Bochur that joins beins, shows on his rotten core and bad character traits. Would never want my daughter marrying one.
(2/6/2019 9:08:57 PM)
34
About Friday Night Bain Hashmoshes
It says in pirkei ovois, that Friday night Bain hashmoshes, so Yesh oimrim that "Noilad Mazikim"... I am thinking if it's not an "open Nevuoh" on today's Friday night Bain hasmoshes parties.
(2/6/2019 9:11:47 PM)
35
Not average jo
You dont know what your talking about modern older boys do this it is not a thing to look into by shiduchim you sound like a bunch of little high school girls because maybe you are 😊
(2/6/2019 9:14:06 PM)
36
Going down hill
Im a Bochur learning in 770 and all I can say is that many parents sadly have no idea and are completely unaware of what theyre boys are doing. I have been on shlichus to a zal which many will consider to be from the top and its vary sad to see how many Bochrim have this issue of drinking.

Many boys in many Yeshivos have this problem of drinking, what makes it worse is that they make as if its Chasiddish and its the right thing to do - which is wrong and against Halacha, and against the Rebbes Gzeira that no one under the age of 40 should have less then 4 lichayims (Shotcups) - which is why the problem is much worse then it seams.

This problem isnt just in zal, it in some mesivtas As well and boys who are staff in overnight camps - and are responsible for the physical, emotional, and psychological well being of children. And the damage done to kids whove seen theyre counselors drunk on Friday night is highly destructive. Ive been in a mainstream Lubavitcher overnight camp three years ago and seen many kids who were scared when they saw theyre counselors drunk...

Parents, your spending thousands of dollars a year in tuition for your sons to supposedly grow and gain in yeshiva. BH they yeshiva system is doing a great job and many boys are very successful, but a great portion of bochrim (including who you will call good ones) are drinking dangerously, have unfiltered smartphones, and do things behind closed doors. Is this where you want your hard-earned money for tuition going?

Parents are oblivious to whats really happening with theyre kids... and they say the girls are no different and also have many of these issues...

(2/6/2019 9:14:37 PM)
37
Shabbos on a high
Some take weed as well
(2/6/2019 9:15:39 PM)
38
???
a frum ehrlicher yid, of corse a chosid should be in shul for mincha, learn somthing between mincha and kabolas shabbos, a sicha, a maamar, maavir the sedrah, and thendaven kabolas shabbos, and then go to eat seudas shabbos with family or with other bochrim in a holy shabbos spirit. this is what regular frumme chesidishe yidden do. this bain thing does not come from kedusha and yiras shamayim.
(2/6/2019 9:22:08 PM)
39
This is just a bunch of social outcasts retaliating
This is a retaliation from the people who weren't cool enough to be invited to our Beins and kiddush clubs trying to shut them down. Maybe they should have spent less time trying to police everyone else and more time being socially normal.
(2/6/2019 9:24:49 PM)
40
To #3 shiduch
Are you serious?! First the white shirt came a thing, now this is too?! It seems like people are getting cought up in the chitzonyus when looking for a shidduch!
The shadchonim have to get better terms to define bachurim and stop creating false labels.
(2/6/2019 9:34:41 PM)
41
Lol
This was a good laugh...
Plz pick your battles....
(2/6/2019 9:35:16 PM)
42
Woman Bain invite
Hey everyone,
Im a young ChaBaD girl but with it , living in ch and my friends and I have a Bain for us girls every week !
It is in my opinion a great way to socialize with friends and discuss our weeks and what we wish to accomplish in the following week.

P.s to number 3
A friend of mine met her husband at a Bain and they have been happily married with kids for over 5 years bh !
(2/6/2019 9:41:59 PM)
43
an experienced Beiner
JUST FYI - its BEIN not BAIN!! - if you are going to complain about important farbrenging time for bochurim at least spell it right
(2/6/2019 9:44:43 PM)
44
This is a lack of chassidishkeit
No excuses can disturb the facts. I dont really care if this adds in your 'simcha' or helps you feel socially at ease. Can we all just say this how it is!?
This is inappropriate behavior for anyone who deems themselves as a chossid of the Rebbe. It's leitzanus, leads to kalos rosh, loshon harah, and can also probably lead to missing davening, or definitely the real avoda of davening.

Im with #3. Ma, i dont want a "bein" bochur.
(2/6/2019 9:46:09 PM)
45
To #3
If anyone wouldn't want to close a shiduch for participating in a Bain, I'm not sure I would like to move on with that shiduc...
(2/6/2019 9:55:19 PM)
46
Questionable spirit
Although Halacha is Halacha and a Tov is a Rob, so there's no arguing with the above article, I'd like to take issue with the spirit in which it is written...
It is heavy, intense and not at all written to the level of the Bochurim who enjoy a good bein in Friday afternoon. Bochurim of today's generation need understanding Rabbonim, not dogmatic lecturers.
And for that reason I highly doubt this article will change the mind if any 'beining' Bochur'. Just give them a distaste to those who represent Halacha.
(2/6/2019 10:01:57 PM)
47
Wonderful article
Thank you Rabbi. I recently heard about the bein. I was told guys who wouldnt go to shul now go then they hear kiddush and go home. Others look for s social with friends after a week at work ... then they daven and go home all merry to start s meal and say they are not hungry and whoever prepared feels insulted or stops preparing a nice shabbos meal!
I wish individuals wouldnt be so sarcastic on their comments. Rabbi here quoted sources. The article was necessary. Some are just not aware it could even be a problem.
Chodesh tov to all
Lots of simcha true simcha sans alcohol and true achdus no sarcasm
(2/6/2019 10:06:25 PM)
48
To #15
Please quote a exact source, or reference a exact page number, something tells me you are totally misquoting or misunderstanding.
To my recollection in of those years there are very strong Sichos against drinking.
(2/6/2019 10:12:49 PM)
49
Rabbi Citron
I find it rather comical that you did very minimal research before writing your whole extensive article, every single being I've been by they made kiddush beforehand, takes away most of your points, not saying there isn't anything wrong with it, but not from our bigger issues.
(2/6/2019 10:16:13 PM)
50
Questionable spirit
Although Halacha is Halacha and a Tov is a Rob, so there's no arguing with the above article, I'd like to take issue with the spirit in which it is written...
It is heavy, intense and not at all written to the level of the Bochurim who enjoy a good bein in Friday afternoon. Bochurim of today's generation need understanding Rabbonim, not dogmatic lecturers.
And for that reason I highly doubt this article will change the mind if any 'beining' Bochur'. Just give them a distaste to those who represent Halacha.
(2/6/2019 10:17:03 PM)
51
Al Koh Hol
It's a desire to get buzzed or high, cloaked in a Hebrew word Bain. Same desire dresses up in other Hebrew words like Farbrengen, Kiddush, LiChaim...

(Yes, I know the words Farbrengen, Kiddush and Bein have their originally intended transalation and meaning which indeed are holy, but those who wanna drink ab/use these words)

Another desire is to be with like-minded others. Chillin. Bonding.


Doing this beats boring conversation or mumbo jumbo "davening".


I like the poster's clean focus on halacha (and his line" going against the bain"). Call it as it is. Usually a drink party contrary to halachic or customary standards. As long as you're aware of the laws and choose otherwise, cheers.

BTW, perhaps this is not a Hebrew word, and is English, and spelled Bane (not Bain), which means " a cause of great distress or annoyance"
(2/6/2019 10:21:08 PM)
52
Bucher here
Thank you for this article.

Beins are wromg on so many levels.
And have such a negative effect on so many.

Glad people are starting to talk about it.

Instead of starting shabbos with some chassidus and a mindful masriv. We have bucherim missing mincha drinking and crowding around BBQ's.

Just not a way to start the holiest day of the week..
(2/6/2019 10:24:05 PM)
53
Problem
What compels the practitioners to call this new custom by a Hebrew name? Why not call it what it is: Impromptu Drinking Gathering, or IDG for short.
Truth is, it has nothing to do with yiddishkeit. Jewish people are not supposed to be "drinkers." This is definitely not Chassidic, as everyone knows that our Rebbeim deemed drinking a nasty thing (dovor mo'us).
Every shul or Beis Chabad should discourage this, and close it down.
(2/6/2019 10:34:11 PM)
54
Mind Your Business
Sometimes I read comments like ones here and I start to cry - no oops, thats poop.

Whos mixed up now?

Are you kidding me!? You didnt know about Bain Hashmashos? You are not with the times of your people. Not with your people back than, not with your people now. Where are you? Find yourself please.

You dont date guys who go to Bain? Is it not about the alcohol consumption but about the idea of getting together with friends after a week and connecting though song and peaceful communication? Dont be so boring. Get a wife. What?

And girl, you do whatever you have to do to make that Shem hasimchadik. Wake up!! You spun, girl.
(2/6/2019 10:36:53 PM)
55
This is a holy excuse for drinking and not being in control of yourself.
Also a terrible habit for a bochur to get into before marriage. Where will he be when his wife needs help getting ready for shabbos? Out drinking with his mates? Disgusting
(2/6/2019 10:41:21 PM)
56
To #2
What a tsadik🙄
(2/6/2019 10:47:47 PM)
57
where are the rabonim?!
why don't we hear the crown heights bais din put out a letter on this super important issue?!
(2/6/2019 10:51:19 PM)
58
What's the order?
Can someone explain the order of events please?
Mincha, (shkiah), Kiddush, Bain, (tzais) kabbolos shabbos, maariv.
Is that correct? Just trying to figure out how it could possibly be halachically permissible..
(2/6/2019 11:07:29 PM)
59
To Number 58
Because if you ever learned shulchan aruch in your life it says you can bring in shabbos whichever way you like. You can bring in shabbos with kabbolas shabbos or you bring in shabbos with kiddush.
(2/7/2019 6:19:40 AM)
60
To #15
We are all so proud of you that u help out your wife erev shabbos, do u want a trophy? A lot of married men I know make the entire shabbos from A to z and let the wives relax on Friday from after a long week with the kids etc, and we all still make it to the Bain just fine, I get it you have never been invited.... And btw are Bain is fully according to Halacha, someone says a dvar Torah and we come early and eat till shkiah, so like other comments there are many kinds of Bains get with the times.
(2/7/2019 6:54:03 AM)
61
Halacha
Not sure how quoting Halachic sources will help anything. The people who participate in these drinking parties are obviously not concerned about following Halacha.
Treating alcohol consumption as a religious ideal was a big mistake. The minimal benefits are not worth the major cost.
(2/7/2019 7:51:18 AM)
62
the bain guy...
is generally someone that...

1- gives in to social pressure

2- needs to feel cool and do what everyone is doing.

3- doesn't have enough strength of character and yiras shamayim to stick to whats rights.


4- has less regard for his family than his friends.


definitely look well into it for shiduch purposes.
(2/7/2019 8:04:03 AM)
63
My 2 cents
Not that anyone cares.

My opinion on all of this is, who cares?

The guys who are doing this are probably not concerned with asking a rov about the halachic validity of it anyway. And the people who care about halacha are already in shul and are more concerned to learn something.

So who is this even for?

I personally have nothing to do with these beins and could care less, but if some people like a lchaim after a long week and before kabolas shabbos, big deal. What's it anyone else's business?
(2/7/2019 9:35:21 AM)
64
bein is a symptom, not the disease
While I appreciate the kind treatment of this post, it seems like Bein comes in many forms. Bein in our city is a collection of some married 20-somethings (and sometimes older) who (1) drink heavily, (2) may or may not daven mincha/kabbolos shabbos. By now, the wives, parents, and in-laws know what's really going on. But this is only a symptom of a larger problem. I don't know if it's a lack of inspiration, problems dealing with marriage/work/tuition, or addiction, or something else. But the problem is deeper, and I don't know how to help other than try to befriend these families and maybe show some ahavas yisroel.
(2/7/2019 9:51:35 AM)
65
Yup...
Been saying this for a long time.

I'm 27 now, and when I was just starting out in Zal I took part in the bains, though I felt very iffy about it because I knew it was wrong on so many levels. I'm very social and all my close friends joined the bains. I was sad to find that I was the only one who felt against it. But the peer pressure got the best of me...
But then as I got older, I went against the grain and stopped attending them, being the "odd one" out. Instead I went to shul like a mentsh where I felt and continue to feel so much more whole and connected. Couldn't care less about the comments hurled at me then (and now) for not going anymore.

I don't judge or have anything against my friends or anyone who bain, just not for me.
(2/7/2019 9:55:38 AM)
66
The facts prove otherwise
study shows at Yeshiva University that those that participate in "Bain" are 85% more likely to go to Minyan because it gets them to bed earlier and then they have time to go to Mikvah and learn chassidus before they talk to Hashem.
Studies also show that people that don't go to "bain" have a lot more social issues and will not be as enthusiastic when it comes to Minyan.
...and that's a fact
(2/7/2019 10:02:14 AM)
67
Fact check
The history of "bain"
The reason why we have such a custom For Better or For Worse did not start the way you think.
It started around the time period of the 70s and 80s in CGI sleepover, at that time the camp was catering non Orthodox children and trying to bring them closer to Judaism, every week on Thursday night there used to be a raffle and the ones that would win would have the opportunity to spend the Shabbos with the Rebbe in Crown Heights, obviously there were those that had to stay behind and take care of the campers, so what they did was they would sometimes say a little Lechaim to lighten their moods and make sure that the campers have a spiritual Shabbos.

With that being said if the "Bain" was done before shabbos and there was not excessive drinking just maybe one or two Lechaims, what is mentioned above does not apply.

Lechaim!
(2/7/2019 10:13:10 AM)
68
Kiddush first
What about if, while at bain, one makes kiddush.. What would be problematic about that?
(2/7/2019 10:23:42 AM)
69
To #31 and 32
To 31, all I did was ask a question.
So you are saying that asking a question causes the Rebbe OB'M pain.
I was taught in Lubavitch yeshiva that the stupid question is the one that is ***not*** asked.
Your claims against me are nonsense.
First, I was asking about things going on in my generation that affect me, not judging previous generations like that of the Holocaust. Second Rashi never said that Jews are so full of Achdus, that they have never been punished.
Third, the Rebbe never said or implied that as long as there is a hdus that no one has to follow halacha.
To say "we have achdus, therefore Halacha is unimportant" is what is "retarded", to use ***your*** word.
Forth, your post attacking me and calling me names and making ignorant judgements about me shows you you are as far from Achdus as you can possibly get.
To #32 Jews don't use "oye vey" the way you do, so you don't sound Jewish at all.
(2/7/2019 10:24:24 AM)
70
A chassidisher derher turned sour
What started as a small chassidisher hang out turned into a religious experience.
This is so out of hand. Its not just bains its all around excuses to socialize, drink and party.

As a bachur in oholei torah zal there was a click of guys who had a drinking session BEFORE shkia every Friday night. They followed the rules, went to daven then kiddush and continued farbrengen.
Like everything it starts a small thing and it grows as it trails along. Those that started it knew halacha and the copy cats are completely not aware or dont really care.
Today in CH and in many other Lubavitcher neighborhoods there is a class shul, so the older generation who started certain shtick (without labeling which yeshivas or styles they are following). Davened in 770 the rebbes minyan etc.
Their siblings have an image of their older brother and his friends all good bochurim, this must be what a bochur does.
Now they opened their own shul, (which I think is a beautiful thing) however being that the younger ones dont have an image of the davening of their sibling that is not what is being done.
Instead there is only the drinking and pustkeit.

We have to recognize something for what it is and not shroud it with chassidisher terms. Foul language in any language is foul, drinking in any language is drinking.
(2/7/2019 10:58:46 AM)
71
To #62
Spot on!
Add:
5- is dependandt on alcohol to unwind, relax and feel the shabbos spirit.
6- totally disregards Halacha and the Rebbes takana
(2/7/2019 11:10:53 AM)
72
Bein & Mic Drop
Bein & Mic Drop are 2 examples of current trends which many take issue with. Halacha is very important and may prevent some who are not involved in these events to not participate. However, chances are, clarification of halachic parameters will not dissuade almost anyone who is already participating.

There is obviously something deeper which is drawing people to these events. Many of them are committed to chassidishkeit on some level or another. Why are people doing this?

Letter of the law was never the only focus of chassidim. The main focus was always, How do we use the letter of the law to become part of our bones, to be geshmack, so that we become connected to The One who gave us the letter of the law.

The solution is not to tell people Follow Halacha. The solution is to find out why people are connecting to other things, in place of connecting to Halacha.

A place to start Is to acknowledge the beauty that yidden are connecting with each other. They are ready to connect.

Connect, engage, draw close.

(2/7/2019 11:14:48 AM)
73
The bigger issue
Is alcohol, alcohol, alcohol (and probably something 'else'). Bein is just another opportunity for more alcohol on top of all the others
(2/7/2019 11:27:12 AM)
74
The picture is misleading
At a Bein/ Bain,
#1- you are making Kiddush, in the picture the cups barely have a 1/2 of a lichim in them let alone a Kiddush.
#2- Us Boucherim cant afford Gelea also known as scotch or whiskey, (i.e. Glenfiddich Bourbon Barrel Reserve 14 Year Old Single Malt Scotch Whisky which retails for over $50, (what u have in the pic)).

The truth is that well buy a handle or two of Smirnoff for $20.
Once on the topic of saying Lichim/ drinking, maybe you should ask the dean of this college his opinion on the grubkite of drinking scotch vs the traditional visea, also known as vodka.
(2/7/2019 11:34:15 AM)
75
Bain Guy/Gal Shidduch...
The Bain Guy or gal clearly fain religious observance to gain attention from similarly minded peers. There pain in regular shabbas observance manifests into vain attempt to belong. It might seem like something nice to do in the rain or if one feels zany, but the key to to use your brain and refrain from Bain. This will lead to the real culprit behind bain and the chabad lite movement, Vaccines!
(2/7/2019 11:35:13 AM)
76
Spot on
To #1 - before you tell a scholarly Rabbi that he "has 'his facts' (the Torah's, ahem) mixed up", you'd best make sure your level of knowledge is higher and that we can ascertain that by signing your real name, with your title. Rabbi Citron will not speak up for himself - just one of his many fine attributes - but you can bet your bottom dollar he knows what he's talking about with regards to Halacha, and then some. You probably owe a public apology for slandering someone (someone worthy of only praise!) publicly, double for being a troll and doing it anonymously.
#9 - spot on, I would never do that to my wife and can only imagine (in fact, I know!) how much it bothers many women who really do work so hard for Shabbos.
(2/7/2019 11:55:13 AM)
77
To # 30
1) The ketzos hashulchan doesn't say what his makor is. But bepashtus it's not the MB in 232. Rather it's the halacha in 471 re Erev Pesach. Whatever is assur there min hadin is not recommended on Erev Shabbos since we see in Arvei Pesachim that they are brought bechada machta.
Re Erev Pesach the issur is not that it may cause you to eat more but because it, itself, is filling. The same applies to a revi'is of wine or a similar beverage.
2) After kiddush before hamotzie, it's still not recommended to eat, see Alter Rebbe 249:10 and in the kuntres acharon there. But it's not assur min hadin.
3) In this inyan, divrei chachomim tzrichin chizuk. Kenireh bechush.

Aryeh Citron
(2/7/2019 12:00:30 PM)
78
Jack
BS"D # 75 in your eagerness to savage you seem to be a bigger dope than you accuse me- did i at all mention
Halacha or dispute his knowledge I said he does not have his facts straight. The gatherings I have attended are after Kiddush (which is permitted before Maariv) no excess drinking and the entire tochin is Dvar Torah and nigunim. Indeed your apology is called for
(2/7/2019 12:48:34 PM)
79
halachik ramifications of eating and drinking
is it cinsidered drinking if alcohol is taken as a suppository or an IV drip? people who are nicshal in this should consider their options
(2/7/2019 12:52:30 PM)
80
Solution
#1 Begin after Shkia
#2 Make Kiddush before you begin (on wine)
#3 Have a friend remind you to Daven Kabolas Shabbos & Maariv (not necessary if there's a set time for Minyan)
#4 Drink only up to 4 L'chaims

#SOLVED
(2/7/2019 12:54:29 PM)
81
Community bein
Anyone that needs a place to bein is more then welcome to come to ours.
(2/7/2019 1:02:39 PM)
82
This letter helps nobody
Alcohol abuse has been a problem in Lubavitcher Yeshivas for literally decades. Bochurim who constantly abuse alcohol and other drugs in Yeshiva should either be given help or kicked out. Rabbi aryeh citron cares so much about bochurim who need help, that he bothered himself to write this halachic reprimand and ultimately self-aggrandizing article that
almost definitely does not help any bochurim who actually need help with this issue. This is the idiotic out of touch attitude that is hurting the futures of our young men. Its very upsetting to see so many bright young mens futures thrown down the toilet at Lubavitcher Yeshivas. Ill sooner send my child to public school, to be educated by leftist government workers then to a Lubavitch Yeshiva.
- A tomim who had enough
(2/7/2019 2:44:28 PM)
83
To everyone in the back
If a Bochur is doing a Bain and that is how he welcomes Shabbos dont question or ruin it
They could all be out with girls or drugs
Lets appreciate what Haagen gave us and chill
(2/7/2019 3:08:37 PM)
84
Typical Yeshiva attitude
The rabbis would rather pontificate about halachic issurim then actually offer real help to the bochurim who have issues with alcohol. Out of touch and hurting the bochurim. Our Yeshivas need to change their approach to excessive drinking and stop writing these useless articles.
(2/7/2019 3:44:41 PM)
85
To # 68 (and others)
The problem would be.. *Alcohol Consumption*
(2/7/2019 3:49:47 PM)
86
bitzalel
yes a deeper problem. need to start learning chassidus in an organized systematic way with iyun and the kavana of becoming real chabad chassidim.

and i don't mean the bochurim, i mean the rabbis and baali batim
(2/7/2019 7:54:30 PM)
87
Focus
Better education, better jobs= less stress, less reason to drink, and people can improve quality of life.
Maybe improve the education in lubavitch schools aye
(2/7/2019 7:54:41 PM)
88
#78 said it all
That is exactly what all of these Bain people will say. They will just find loopholes in halacha that will suit them. They will find ways to justify it cause they would rather have fun drink alcohol & talk sports & other nonsense then go to shul & daven
(2/7/2019 7:56:01 PM)
89
to #3
i will only date a guy that bEins, but never a guy that bAins.
(2/7/2019 8:51:13 PM)
90
The Question is wrong
The question if its allowed or not is wrong itself. The fact that people are looking into whether Bein is right or not already shows that they are looking for loopholes in Halacha, they dont actually want to do the right thing.
(2/7/2019 10:43:58 PM)
91
To #68 and #80 solution
Wait till the time u can daven marriv and make Kiddush on wine then u can do what u want
(2/8/2019 3:22:47 AM)
92
Let's be honest
The worst thing bochurim are really doing is drinking a little when shobbos starts? No, rather it's the fact that these days everybody has smart phones that the second shabbos starts and they have no other outlet the bochurim start drinking
(2/8/2019 3:31:21 AM)
93
To number 7
Love the honesty but you are really missing out on number 3
(2/8/2019 6:58:49 AM)
94
By the way
When I go to Bain it's not just bochrim who do Bain it's married guys who are still living with that yeshiva bocher mentality. Wouldn't they rather be home with thier wife & kids who they haven't really seen to much the whole week? Now they finally have some quality time to spend with wife & kids but they run off to play with their friends. Drinking alcohol & bullshoving
(2/8/2019 10:26:01 AM)
95
A concerned wife
Reading this really disturbs me!
I know my husband has some friends who drink before Shabbos on occasion, but I didn't know this was a thing.
How are Rabbomim allowing this sort of behavior?!

My advice to all the wive's out there is, if you see that your husband has come home from one of these drinking escapades don't even let him in the house! Then maybe they will learn!
People wake up women we have to unite against this!
Hopefully now that it's out in the open our Rabbonim can do something to stop this horrible things from taking place!
Please women guard yourselves!!!!
(2/8/2019 12:51:24 PM)
96
A happy participant
Can no one have fun anymore???
People please calm you horses these things are fun! Maybe you ought to join one once and see for yourself, you might be surprised how much more fun your Friday night may be.
L'chaim and see you there
(2/8/2019 12:54:07 PM)
97
frum
i am only frum today because of the bain
(2/8/2019 1:31:25 PM)
98
To #95
That can be (and is) said by those who do other things wrong, too.
Anything that is against halacha is defended by those who do it using the same claim about "fun", you use
(2/8/2019 2:13:34 PM)
99
Hard core beiner
When i was on yeshiva back in the day, a boy bought 107 bottles of Smirnoff alchohol and had one bottle with hos groemds by every weeks bein
Thanks Skonah
(2/8/2019 2:17:52 PM)
100
Baining is life
I am currently intoxicated and I am having a lot of simcha. I think that the person who wrote this article or any one who has a problem with a Bain guy is just feeling left out or has some traumatic experiences of being left out from their childhood Bain guys are the most chill and make the best shidduchim. The main thing is ahavas Yisroel and try to bring moshiach. We want moshiach now!!
(2/8/2019 3:20:18 PM)
101
Different world then 1900's
The world has changed parents want to think there child is amazing and chasidish buttttt why can't you except them for who they are yes they have there issues but no one's perfect. stop forcing them to do stuff teach them the importance of g-d
Don't force them to put on tefilin speak to them about it try show them the way of life not in a forcefull way. Yes 100 years ago in Russia it was the way but we aren't in Russia there is internet there is weed there's girls it's a lot more of a struggle then it was for you parents I count my self religious as I'm working on step number 2 the rebbe said someone that's working on step number 2 is better then someone that's on step 613 making his way down. So show your children even if they just about keep shabbos show them love and appreciation
Once again it's a whole nother world
(2/9/2019 5:04:32 AM)
102
To #69
1st of all, the Dor of the Migdal of Bovel was saved due to the fact that they had achdus! (meforshim and midrashim)!
2nd, you lecture #31 about calling people names, but then (in the same comment) attack #32, claiming that he's not jewish!
(2/9/2019 3:24:02 PM)
103
The problem is the Miami are surrounded by snags

The origination of this so called shtus comes from . It speaks about how chassidim erev shabbas would drink some mashke and get in the state and mind of shabbas.
And for those who were wondering about the shiddush it says in a famous letter of chassidim of the rebbe maharash that a chassidiisher eishes chayil is someone who used to let her husband get slammed by a farbrengan.
(2/9/2019 7:27:09 PM)
104
Playing with fire and with the supernal snake
The worst sin took place right before Shabbos and it is the most dangerous time of the week to be wagging ones tongue and drinking alcohol. Chava and Adam has an issue at that time and you can too if you continue. You are dancing with the snake if you party when he parties. It says the fires of gehinom are cooled at that time so no one is not allowed to drink at that time or you take away their relief or cooling water from the universe. If you drink and party you are stoking your own fire of pain. This is simple halacha and chasidus.
(2/11/2019 9:40:07 AM)
105
Former Yeshiva Student
I feel the larger issue here is not getting enough attention in this article, in the comments, or in our society. The fact is that many "beins" are carried out according to halacha-and if not, can easily be adjusted to do so, which Im sure many will be happy to do if it is pointed out to them. They are not there to violate halacha. They are there to drink alcohol. I myself have attended beins where there was no food, nothing but a large bottle of Smirnoff. The bein is really only a minor offshoot of a much larger and more serious issue that is prevalent across all of Chabad, especially, and beginning in, yeshivas. It is simply another opportunity to drink. In truth, it is unfair to blame the young bochurim (or even the older ones) who participate, when they are introduced to alcohol as adolescents. That is the real issue here: institutionalized drinking. When it is considered acceptable behavior on an institutional level; when 14-year-old boys are not only allowed, but even encouraged by supposed "role models" to consume alcohol, for any reason; when drinking, be it by a farbrengen or a bein or a Wednesday evening, is regular behavior that is enforced by peer pressure; and when children grow up watching their parents and other adults regularly consuming alcohol, it then becomes a social norm. That is the real danger, and the reason why so many end up attending weekly beins (i.e. alcoholism).
I have personally witnessed a friend turn into an alcoholic after being constantly pressured by his friends and his "mashpia" to "say lchaim". If we would like to treat this issue, it must be attacked at its roots. Regardless of the origin of this practice and the perhaps good intentions behind it, yeshivas need to stop providing alcohol to their students and certainly need to stop encouraging its consumption. We need to recognize as a society that viewing this behavior by young teenagers as normal creates a situation in which they have no reason to assume there is anything wrong with it, and that introducing alcohol at such a young age, when the power of inhibition is nowhere near fully developed, is a dangerous game to be playing, resulting in drinking becoming seemingly normal behavior to them before they can truly understand the factors involved in their actions and causing it to become a regular part of their lives before they have the chance or the ability to stop it from happening. We, as a community, need to stop creating an environment in which constant and excessive drinking is acceptable and normal behavior. I have nothing against drinking alcohol, when it is done as an adult when one can better understand the consequences, and when one's ability of self-control is more fully developed so that they are able to choose whether or not they wish to keep drinking. There is a very good reason why there is a legal age restriction, and the adults in our society need to realize that before blaming the children who they raise to be alcoholics. With all due respect to the Rabbi who wrote this article- maybe its time to examine your own actions before getting upset with the results.
(2/15/2019 12:40:59 PM)
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