Jan 15, 2019
Should Women Be MicDropping
A Mic Drop workshop in Crown Heights/Photo: Shmuel Amit

Op-Ed: The discussion whether women should be giving personal talks in public connects to how you see Halacha in 2019.

By Sruli Schochet

A recent report on COLlive.com revealed that there is a planned event in Miami, where numerous Chabad Shluchos are going to speak at a public forum. The event, titled MicDrop by Rosh Lowe, proclaims its intentions to shed some light on "what passions drive these fierce and feminine forces to devote their years to a life of service".

However, there appeared to have been an undercurrent and backlash against these women speaking about such matters in such a public fashion. As a result, several of the shluchos dropped out of the event, while others proudly touted their decision of planned participation.

As can be expected with such a sensitive hot-button topic, the ensuing comments were fast and furious. Some commented how it's important that we set proper standards of tznius. Others reflected that this is just a suppression of women's voices, who also have a right to be heard. Even the event organizer is quoted as saying: "For anyone, man or woman, who supports a woman's right to speak, you should be at this event", thereby implying that non-attendance of said event would cast us back into the dark-ages.

Fortunately, as with most things, there is precedent in Torah and Halacha. This is not meant to be viewed as halachic ruling, for which I am not qualified. But lest those that were brave enough to voice their opposition not be deemed as archaic, knuckle-dragging, cave dwellers, it's important to shed some light in how halacha views such an event. From there, the reader is of course welcome to continue to do their own research and discuss it with their Rov or Mashpia.

The question of a woman speaking in public first arises based on a statement in Talmud Bavli, Brochos 24a, where Shmuel states: Kol b'isha Ervah - the voice of a woman is considered "nakedness" (i.e. licentious or lewd). This statement is repeated again in Kiddushin 70a-b where Rav Yehudah repeats it in the name of his teacher, Shmuel. In both cases, it does not imply that this refers only to singing, the kol isha were are all so familiar with. Rather, this refers to regular speech as well.

Needless to say, there are a myriad of halachic commentaries that analyze this statement in many different ways and draw several different conclusions. Some of the strong opposition of applying this prohibition to regular speech, is the fact that we find even in Tanach how Eli Hakohen spoke to Chana and Elisha spoke to the woman from Shunamis, just to name a couple of examples. If hearing a woman speak is ervah, how could these great tzadikim have acted in such a fashion? Can we not infer from those historical anecdotes that it is just singing that is forbidden, not public or private speaking?

The various opinions and seemingly contradictions, are explained by a very nice summary brought in Shu"t Lehoros Noson 1:60 (R' Noson Gestetner 1932-2010). There he goes through the various halachic opinions and extrapolates that, while everyone agrees that singing is not allowed, when it comes to a woman's speaking voice, there are three times that it would be considered forbidden: (1) If her words are such that would cause a closeness, i.e. meeting of the minds; (2) if the man that is listening, is intent on listening to the sweetness of her voice, as opposed to just the message of her words; and (3) if the man intends to derive pleasure from her words.

If any of these conditions are met, then even regular speech would be deemed ervah. It's important to note, that he ends the teshuvah saying that even if none of those conditions are met, obviously we are talking about when the woman is not standing in front of the audience of men, but rather sitting or behind a mechitzah. However, to be standing in front of a crowd of men raises other issues of tznius which are not allowed.

Some of you reading this, may be rolling your eyes. Do such things really apply in 2019? Haven't times changed? Shouldnt we be finding any which way possible to get the positive message out there?

To that one can only say that Torah and Halacha are eternal. They apply, unwaveringly, in all times and periods of history. It is that very strict adherence to Halacha, regardless of the changing world around us, that allows us to still be in existence in the twenty-first century, after over 2,000 years of exile.

Let us return for a moment to the event at hand. By his own admission, the event organizer admits that "vulnerability allows a speaker to make the deepest connection and impact". In other words, the purpose and intent here is for these speeches to expose a vulnerability of the speaker and thereby create a connection with the listener. Seemingly, this vulnerability, this connection, is exactly the "kiruv hada'as" - the meeting of the minds - that would make it inappropriate for its male member audience.

Again, I could very well be wrong and if the speakers spoke with their Rov or Mashpia, ones that are familiar with such matters, and they got the green light, who am I to criticize?

However, here is some parting food for thought. As Shluchos of the Rebbe, you are the Rebbe's foot soldiers. The Rebbe's ambassadors. You represent everything the Rebbe holds dear. The Rebbe was unquestionable and unshakeable in his adherence to Halacha, in the fullest sense of the word. Both in the law itself, as well as the spirit of the law. If there are questions that have cropped up, a pallor that was cast on this event, something that may cause others to think less of the amazing hard work you are doing, day in, day out, then it begs the question: Is it really worth it?

I want to conclude, that I have nothing but deference and respect for the hard work women do in general and Shluchos in particular. I watch with awe how my sisters, both of whom are on shlichus, juggle their family life and communal responsibilities on a daily basis. It's both humbling and awe inspiring. Please remember that there is no need to briefly go on to a stage, which may turn out to be a step down from that highest of pedestals on which you already stand.



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Opinions and Comments
1
I think that you answered the question when you said you're not qualified
If so, stop telling women when they can and can't speak. Torah js not oppressive or chauvinistic as you demonstrate in your own unqualified opinion. Did Miriam or Devorah also have "licentious" voices when they spoke to Klal Yisroel?
(1/15/2019 11:40:17 AM)
2
Chen Goodman
....and there it is, was just a matter of time before someone tries to take the wind out of the sails on anything good. Our sisters need the inspiration of our Shluchos, and they need to see them proud and in the spotlight. This obsession with tznoius is hurting more than helping...and its getting pretty weird.
(1/15/2019 11:46:35 AM)
3
I'm no fan
I am no fan of collive.com, but I have nothing but respect for you for posting this.
(1/15/2019 12:15:15 PM)
4
Be careful JLI!
To all of the esteemed people behind JLI, be very careful. This author may be coming for you next. Unless you get a mechitza and really make sure there is no meeting of the minds at all, you may get a letter tearing you down.
(1/15/2019 12:20:56 PM)
5
Agree
Why not do it as a women only? Women to women... Could be a beautiful event.
(1/15/2019 12:23:49 PM)
6
AGREE WITH #4
Totally. Nothing else to add.
(1/15/2019 12:27:17 PM)
7
Women's voices
Shluchos speak all of the time in public!
Nothing new.

Sorry if their speeches aroused anyone here.
Stop turning women into enticing creatures
(1/15/2019 12:34:07 PM)
8
Mamesh insane
How could this even be thought of to be okay? Aren't women only there to have babies and subjugate themselves to their husbands? Why would they have emotions or a life?? They need to know their place in our society as third class citizens. Their worth is only judged based on how good looking they are for their husbands sake and possibly for their male children.



This is clinically insane. How could this article be published????????
(1/15/2019 12:34:42 PM)
9
The Model
The Rebbe often spoke about the ideal model from Avrohom and Sorah. He worked with the men and she with the women.
(1/15/2019 12:39:39 PM)
10
Micdrop is nice but no point in telling eveeyone all your personal life issues
Micdrop is a nice idea but there is no gain for the women to be to be sharing their personal life issues... they can do a group setting with 10-20 people if needed which will help a lot more ... rro do it on camera, and to do it in front of 200 people and as a competition is just a bit out of hand and pointless
(1/15/2019 12:39:58 PM)
11
1 go peddle your liberal weak mindedness elsewhere
he didnt say anything. he quoted R Nosson Gestetner, one of the gedolei hador. what, you are going to say that R gestener didnt know what he was talking about chas vshalom?

and, what R Gestener said wasn't chauvinistic at all. the first thing he said is not nogea to shluchos who are ehrlich and do not want to create intimacy when they speak to a group, and the second 2 things seem to be dependent on the man, not the woman. why don't you read what it says before getting into an emotional hissy fit.

and number 2, a woman's pride is being tznius and an akeres habayis, not "being in the spotlight." she is a queen and the queen doesn't stam azoy flaunt it and go out. you are being chauvinistic by using a man's measuring stick for a woman. hayitochen!

and tznius is halacha. obsession with halacha (Toras Hashem!) is always going to help. we love Hashem and want to do what he wants!
(1/15/2019 12:42:22 PM)
12
Let her roar
"Even the event organizer is quoted as saying: "For anyone, man or woman, who supports a woman's right to speak, you should be at this event", thereby implying that non-attendance of said event would cast us back into the dark-ages." Shocker.

So, if a woman is talking in a illicit fashion to a man, then you've got issues. Otherwise, let them speak.

Embarrassing.
(1/15/2019 12:44:37 PM)
13
@3 ON TARGET
You took the words out of my mouth.
You could not have said it better.
Facts remain facts regardless of your feelings!!
(1/15/2019 12:49:09 PM)
14
How bored do you have to be...
... to waste valuable life moments writing an article like this? Get a hobby.
(1/15/2019 12:52:47 PM)
15
What about written articles?
Umm, what about "Pen Drop" would you also be concerned about how sweet the writing is?
Because sometimes reading some good writing also gets me going.

Macht nisht kein mitzraim doh!! s'iz moshiach tzeiten!!

Some people get a payoff from actions focused on building, growing, and associations with real LIFE - while others get off by rebuking, condescending, delaying what's good, and remaining steadfast in their idea of being "right".
Wake up and smell the coffee.
(1/15/2019 12:52:48 PM)
16
To the point
Thank you Sruli for writing this, whats is truth (Halacha) cant be tampered with, especially shluchim ask yourself if the rebbe would be ok with you standing on a stage where eventually will end up online and anyone can see, in my opinion the rebbe wouldnt approve. If done privately may be another story.
(1/15/2019 1:00:34 PM)
17
Thank you for this article!
Well said and well written!
(1/15/2019 1:01:38 PM)
18
Just Saying...
To #1: You're quick to agree that Sruli isn't qualified, but then give your own opinion as if you are. Maybe you are, but you didn't sign your name, and you didn't bring any basis for your opinion, so we'll never know. Until then, I'll respect the opinion of someone who backs up his statements with facts and puts a name on his writing, even if he can't pasken.

To #2: He didn't say women can't speak, he said based on his research, women cannot speak in front of men in this specific format. Women can still inspire other women, and even speak in the MicDrop format, just not in front of men. And "this obsession with tznoius" is Judaism. Not caring about Judaism hurts more than it helps.

To #4 : Either you've never been to a MicDrop event, never been to a JLI retreat, or didn't read what Sruli wrote (or maybe all of the above). You can argue about whether he's right or wrong, but you can't make the comparison between JLI and MicDrop.
(1/15/2019 1:14:48 PM)
19
Thank you
Thank you for speaking out with pride, this is real Geon Yaakov in times when halachic concepts are being challenged and misunderstood by our own. There is a way to do things al pi halacha .
(1/15/2019 1:18:30 PM)
20
Disagree with all of your
Found it pretty painful to listen to some of the soul barring. Did not get higher opinion of the shlucha concerned. On the contrary.
(1/15/2019 1:19:14 PM)
21
Bas melech...pnima
I'm a shlucha, I've heard our prominent shluchos speaking to men on all issues including Mikva, and I didn't feel it's appropriate to speak up v men on any issue. With all due respect, yes even JLI.
(1/15/2019 1:25:47 PM)
22
Voice of Reason
Mic drop is set up to make the speaker reveal things that should not be said in public. It makes for good theater, and ratings, but having people spill their beans in public is so undignified.

I have done research on this, and almost each of the presenters (with exception of one or two people) have humiliated themselves, family members or others, in clear, clear violation of Halacha and their own dignity.

So man or women, putting yourself out there is not our way. It caters to base, voyeuristic tendencies inherent in the human condition, and is simply unpalatable. Just because society has gone off the deep end, does not mean we should emulate.

We are Am Kodosh. Man, woman, child.

Please do not compare this problem to women who are uniquely qualified to present on a topic in Yiddishkeit. By virtue of their ability, they are inherently mandated to do so.

But for ratings sake? Man, woman or child, your emotions and tribulations should not be a commodity for someone else's financial gain. As Rob Lowe was quoted here saying that the tickets sold out 'more than a Broadway show.'

Congratulations to him for tapping into reality-tv like confessions and making a parnassah from it. Condolences to whoever falls for this and denigrates their dignity.
(1/15/2019 1:29:54 PM)
23
Agree with #5
yes, women to women.
what about the instruction from the rebbe about not having mixed adult classes?
to #1. what is wrong if someone expresses their view? why bashing her? you may express your view in a respectful way
(1/15/2019 1:30:44 PM)
24
Honest Question
Why is it ok for principals and students of girls schools to speak in front of the father's by graduation? Why do we allow girls over 3 to say the 12 pesukim.by parades? Is there a consensus on what's allowed?
(1/15/2019 1:32:13 PM)
25
You live in the clouds
Have you looked around the frum community recently? We've basically become modern orthodox if that.

Kol hakavod to those rebetzins for sharing themselves and being beaiutiful, tznius role models.

If you have a problem with it, don't listen. They didn't do it on kingston avenue.

For all people who speak up AGAINST other people. What are you doing FOR people?
(1/15/2019 1:36:29 PM)
26
separate the voice from the content
Women have spoken publicly for years without any backlash. Oftentimes there were men in the audience. The issue here is the content!! Some of the women who spoke on the latest Micdrop shared personal issues that it's hard to imagine you would even want to share publicly let alone in front of men!! I was listening and I was very uncomfortable!! So I think the issue is not that a women's voice is ERVA but rather some of the things that are shared are not Tznius!!
(1/15/2019 1:45:06 PM)
27
So women should be quiet and fragile with no impact..in hiding?
Sorry! Im a proud Chabad woman but I DO NOT AGREE that we should be hiding behind a curtain and not speaking in public. Thats for Middle Eastern women..not for us. Proud of the women that stood their ground and did not drop out. They are my role models amd I gladly applaud them. Enough with the obsessive behavior over what women can and cannot do. Just because you were born a man doesnt give you more rights to speak your mind and be influential than a woman.
(1/15/2019 1:51:16 PM)
28
to #1
why do you think Torah isn't regressive? ramam says women cant learn because they are unable to "extrapolate one thing from another". why don't women go to yeshiva, just like men do? men recite a daily bracha which states that they are thankful that they aren't women. (they are not blessing that they ARE men; rather that are NOT women!)
If you think that a woman being forbidden from speaking publicly is "oppressive", then you certainly think that the above mentioned examples are oppressive as well. Why, then do you say that torah isn't oppressive towards women?
Perhaps, there is another standard to define oppression and chauvinism. Perhaps, you should examine all the sources in halacha and sichos that explain what women's roles in Judaism are. Perhaps, then you'd understand why claiming that it is immodest for women you publicly speak isn't oppressive, but, in fact, is precisely what makes Jewish women so special.
(1/15/2019 1:52:14 PM)
29
AGREE WITH #5
Totally. Nothing else to add.
(1/15/2019 1:52:28 PM)
30
IT'S TIME FOR ACCOUNTABILITY
It's about time for halachic standards be applied toShluchim. Unfortunately there is so much going on Chabad Houses that clearly is prohibited in the Torah. In the words of the Rebbe VeAyn Potzeh Peh Umetzatzef (Nobody says a Thing)! The women's Kinus is coming up why don't the Frum Chassidishe Shluchos who adhere to Tznius get up and demand accountability. Lubavitch was always known as the the most strict Chassidus. Just like you can't be a Shliach and eat at McDonalds, you can't be a Shliach and change the Chabad values and standards! Rachmana Litzlan what happened to KOVOD LUBAVITCH and stop dragging the REBBE through the mud!
(1/15/2019 1:56:26 PM)
31
To #1
Rabbi Schochet wrote an elaborate explanation of the facts according to Halacha. Your response is based completely on emotion. If you disagree, respond with facts, not with name calling.
(1/15/2019 1:57:48 PM)
32
Yes!
Let my women speak!
(1/15/2019 1:58:30 PM)
33
Pictures
Are pictures, videos and interviews of women that we do commonly see in chabbad an issue?
(1/15/2019 2:20:52 PM)
34
Stop telling people what to do if you arent the rov of the community
This guy isn't even on shlichus, telling us shluchim how to do our job, so do all shluchim dinners have to be separate now also?and also if you aren't qualified to say anything than don't !!!!
(1/15/2019 2:28:49 PM)
35
Devorah Haneviah
nuff said
(1/15/2019 2:45:30 PM)
36
Writer of #5
I agree with the writer of thr article!
(1/15/2019 2:47:50 PM)
37
Proud of collive
Proud of collive for showing the other side...not everthing one does has a hasgacha from all sides
(1/15/2019 2:52:19 PM)
38
Great Article!
As a 20 year old girl who also truly believes that Yiddishkeit shouldn't and doesn't hold back women - I couldn't agree more with comment #3.
The author doesn't tell anyone what to do, and he writes very respectfully exactly what halacha gives us as a precedent to this situation.
From the way that I've been raised, with lubavitcher chinuch and strong in the Rebbe's horaos, I can't help that agree that for a women to speak in front of men doesn't sound or feel proper and tznius.
When it comes to JLI and Shlichus, there are different rabbanim who deal with the boundaries of those situations. But we are speaking about shluchos to shluchos, within our own community. Why do we need to lower our own standards? This event is all about what makes us hold firm and stay strong, so shouldn't the foundation of it all hold true to that idea?
(1/15/2019 2:57:21 PM)
39
Reminder
When speaking as a Jewish woman, how much more so when one is a representative of the Rebbe,one should be extra mindful and meticulous about dressing in accordance with basic Halachic standards.
(1/15/2019 3:08:11 PM)
40
Beautiful written piece
Thank you for this article.
As a shlucha myself I LOVE the idea of a mic drop women to women!
(1/15/2019 3:11:07 PM)
41
I agree
Why can't a woman organize an event to speak only in front of women?
(1/15/2019 3:15:39 PM)
42
#22
Someone forwarded me your message. My name is Eli Nash. MicDrop is my brainchild and you are 100% incorrect about every single thing you wrote.

The motivation behind MicDrop, what it's about, etc. As I believe you to be sincere in your opinion, I would like to invite you to a public discussion on this topic.

You believe that it is undignified for people to share personal stories; I believe it is life-saving, essential and repressing it is one of the most dangerous things imaginable.

Would love to discuss in a public forum where your opinion could be aired and your mind is open to hearing my opinion.
(1/15/2019 3:29:07 PM)
43
am i missing something?
why cant this just be for a women-only crowd?

why do these women need men in the audience?

as a woman, who values tznius its only natural to feel uncomfortable to 'perform' in front of men.


and forget comfort, halacha is halacha is halacha and is what has kept us special throughout the years...no we don't want to change certain things after all these years, in fact we appreciate its value even more when looking on at the world around us....

women empowering women is all the more powerful when its from women to women.
(1/15/2019 3:29:58 PM)
44
#8 Grow up you obviously are not good at hearing another side.
No one said that a woman was meant to be a second class partner. You could use a Chassidus shiur and I am guessing a tznius one as well (if I had to guess- Ie if your arent tznius its because your husband is not making you feel as pretty as you think you are and if your the man and your wife isnt Tznius vdl.)

Sara was mikarev the women and Avraham the men. As far as the whole mic drop I am not getting involved. But how many times a couple is intimate can be left for women to women discussions. Belly fat discussions and perosnal beauty can be left for women to women mommy and Mes. And I will leave the rest of the commentary for others. Learn how to take
ownership of whats right and wrong and you will get along better with your spouse and have more success in your Shlichus ( if I had to guess).
(1/15/2019 3:30:26 PM)
45
To #4
JLI themselves published a sefer called , I recommend everyone should get a copy.
(1/15/2019 3:32:31 PM)
46
insecurity?
some comments here make me sad and really show fellow women as very insecure as women. no one is shutting you down or forbidding you to be a human being. there are certain guidelines and standards we have for everything in life and the torahs guidelines raise us higher than any other society does....the more you follow the rules the more youll feel it and believe it. speaking in front of men is not gonna do it...thats a very shallow way of viewing women stepping up,
let women connect with women-and they'll really shine in a healthier way
(1/15/2019 3:35:51 PM)
47
@13 well said
Like Ben Shapiro always says: the facts don't change based on your feelings!
If this is what Torah says, then this is the way it is! If you are uncomfortable about it then you should speak with a rav or mashpia about how to change YOUR feelings and not change how to change Torah!
(1/15/2019 3:46:31 PM)
48
Thank you!
Thank you for posting and thank you Rabbi Shochet for taking the time to explain.

As women, we are amazing at what we do and the idea of the mic-drop is amazing - but I wish that it could have been by women for women. Meaning an all-women audience.
(1/15/2019 3:53:01 PM)
49
Kudos to COL
Excellent article, and very important that it was published.
(1/15/2019 4:06:36 PM)
50
#30 why don't we start with VRL
If you care about Halachic standards start with the BD that enforces them. They have no Halachic standards.
if you cant expect it from he BD then we have a free for all which is what exists today, And it all starts with VRL the gold standard of dysfunction and hypocrisy. and if you think I am being unfair take poll of the Shluchim.
(1/15/2019 4:12:02 PM)
51
Not accurate
Sruli, well written article but not accurate.

Halachically a voice over a mic is not an actual voice. (This is why you can't hear the chazan through a mic, even during the week.)

So by definition *Mic Drop* is not problematic.

Sincerely, a Shliach.
(1/15/2019 4:13:43 PM)
52
Actually think about it:
While the stories and lessons these shluchos (and women in general) have may be beneficial for anyone to hear, there are certain standards which have to be met. For it to be a mixed event, for there to even be this nagging thought of "oh, this might not be tzniyus", what's the point of going? To show how we adapt with the times and don't allow ourselves to be limited by the archaic customs of Torah? It's known that a Rav, a successful one at least, is one who has a grasp not only on the 4 books of shulchan aruch, but also on the fifth. Common sense. Just because something may not be entirely wrong, doesn't mean that it is right or proper. There have been systems in place for thousands of years, things to set us apart from the rest of the world. That is something so special about religious Jews, that whike we embrace the changes in the world, we don't conform or change halacha to fit it.
So instead of trying to find ways that we can get women speaking for men or putting their pictures out there etc. (Which are all unnecessary) let's make more women's only events within our circles, more farbrengens. Wanna have the sblucha or Rebbetzin say a dvar Torah? Have a shiur after davening ON THE WOMENS SIDE WITHOUT OPENING THE MECHITZA.
And to all those people who try to say that these issues are evident on men's incapabilities to not make things about attraction or "itemizing" the women... Stop trying to make it that way. No one says that besides for you.
We're rapidly approaching chof beis shvat, a time when thousands of shluchos from around the world will gather, and three won't be a need, not a desire for men to be around or in the crowd. Because our women are strong and capable and are trying to emulate our Rebbetzin. A kind, wise woman. A woman who is looked at as the mother of Chabad. And she didn't accomplish that by being outspoken and addressing all the men. Rather by being an example of a tzinua and a bas melech. May our adherence to halacha in all of it's intricacies be a part in the coming of our rapidly approaching moshiach where we will be reunited with all our leaders, male and female alike, may it be now!
(1/15/2019 4:17:07 PM)
53
Tznius First
Case by case
As in when -Many Years Ago- Mrs. Fogelman
with the Rebbes Hoiroo spoke at a book review of The Chosen by Potok in front of a very large audience !!!
And was instructed to speak about Taharas Hamishpocho! If Im not mistaken!
Reiterating - Tznius First! In thought, speech, and action body movement and dress included.
Just opinion.
Cirel Lipskier
(1/15/2019 4:24:46 PM)
54
To 42
Hi, Eli, THIS is a public discussion on the topic; moderated by COLlive. What you are referring to perhaps is a monetizable discussion in public, to which I kindly decline.

As you, I certainly do not believe in repression. I am simply deeply concerned with the public nature of this therapy and the emotional fallout it may cause. It may seem liberating to the subject at the time, complete with an adrenaline rush or high from the experience, but the concern is that is that while it may seem liberating at the moment, the public nature of it may cause deep, irreversible regret later on.

The human experience is fraught with peril, losses, disappointments and trauma. This is what a good psychologist or psychiatrist, mentor, life-coach, mashpia, or even friend can help with.

The format of MicDrop is akin to the reality type shows that are so prevalent and popular today. Its seems that we cannot get enough of other people's problems in order to mitigate or face our own.

On the issue of talk therapy, please see the research by David Pelcovitz, PhD, one of the most eminent authorities on addressing trauma. Depending on the nature and personality of the person, different modalities should be used to heal and address trauma, stress etc, and pushing talk therapy may be do more harm than good.

The first rule of healing is Do No Harm. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that MicDrop does not meet that threshold.

With blessing,
(1/15/2019 4:29:25 PM)
55
#42
I agree people need to share there story but you can find a greater degree of healing by sharing to a small support group where the whole focus is to hear and support. Rather then Public speaking which is to inform not to heal.
(1/15/2019 4:38:17 PM)
56
To #51
To a Shliach
So can you listen to a woman sing live on a microphone?
Sincerely, a non-Shliach
(1/15/2019 4:41:29 PM)
57
Yes #22 & # 38
We have great talented Shluchos making a difference world wide BUT at the kinus or womens groups or at their Chabad houses. Some Shluchos are not appropriate in dress and sharing baring their souls is too raw and not modest at all. Young boys and their relatives and random people need not read about others intimate details and struggles. If someone is Gd forbid suffering from a similar situation they can do private sessions on the topic or refer them for guidance.
Love you Shluchos but here this is questionable and if questionable then not ok.
(1/15/2019 4:48:35 PM)
58
Melamda Tiflus
In fact, if one teaches his daughter Torah it is as if he taught her promiscuity. (Sotah 21b, Mishneh Torah, Talmud Torah 1:13).

The Rebbe and the Frierdiker Rebbe established schools for girls that taught them Torah, even shebal peh. It's a shame that the author couldn't get around to teach them this law that they may not have been aware of the author's statement that "that Torah and Halacha are eternal. They apply, unwaveringly, in all times and periods of history." Yet, the author also concedes that "The Rebbe was unquestionable and unshakeable in his adherence to Halacha, in the fullest sense of the word." Even though he encouraged women to be taught and to learn Torah. Go figure.

To the author's credit, he does admit that "This is not meant to be viewed as halachic ruling, for which I am not qualified", to which I would add that the author is probably not qualified to write this op-ed either, and probably should have dropped his mic before penning this op-ed and followed Rabbi Akiva's advice: "A safeguarding fence around wisdom is silence" (Avot 3:13).
(1/15/2019 5:00:55 PM)
59
To 42
Firstly, please sign your name.

Secondly, what do you mean by a monetizable discussion in public?

Messages through a forum is not a way to have a discussion.

You have an opinion that you clearly think is important. As do I.

If its an important issue for the COL Live readers to hear from, its important for others as well.

Im willing to provide a forum to you that enables your message to be shared with a larger audience. If MicDrop is in fact what you say it is, dont you want your message out?

Either way, I may not see your response so if you want to continue this discussion, you can get my contact info and Ill be glad to see it up.

(Notice that I will not weigh in on the Halacha regarding women speaking as I have nothing to add not any expertise on the matter. This one that we are having is a discussion that is important. If you dont want a public convo, I will have a private one provided that if your mind is changed you share that. )
(1/15/2019 5:09:25 PM)
60
To #51
To a Shliach
So can you listen to a woman sing live on a microphone?
Sincerely, a non-Shliach
(1/15/2019 5:11:22 PM)
61
Don't put Dina back in the box
Yaakov was punished for putting Dina in a box. This article is such a sad waste, when there are so many real issues plaguing our community. The author seems very frightened of female power, and there's no reason.
The most important halacha regarding tsnius is minhag hamakom, which is often overlooked while quoting tanach and ascribing your own meaning to it. Minhag hamakom doesn't just literally mean place. Essentially, it means context. Setting. Place, time, era, generation. Women of this generation and men of this generation are practically a different species when it comes to time and place, and as such, minhag hamakom means women on stage speaking is not nearly as out of place as it would have been in the times you quoted from tanach. Women's needs and men's needs have changed drastically as well. No one understood humans ever changing needs more than the Rebbe. There's a story about a shliach who allowed women to dance with the Torah on simchas torah, in his upper west side shul, because the women were educated and it was important to them. And the Rebbe said, even though it's not our minhag, it's not against halacha, and in this context where it mattered to them it was okay.
Look up the Rebbe sicha about Dina bas Leah. It's a directive for women, lubavitch, shlucha, etc to go out of your homes and help others build their homes. Don't be stingy with your talents for building a Torah home. Go out. Well that is what micdrop was about. Just following the rebbe.
Please don't feel the need to put Dina back in the box. Don't put men in boxes either for that matter.
(1/15/2019 5:15:12 PM)
62
Classic.
Naturally it's a man who wrote this article on what these shluchos should or shouldn't be doing. Why should these shluchos have to drop out of their plans? Why shouldn't this be on men to not attend the event?
(1/15/2019 5:17:32 PM)
63
Number51
I found your comment fascinating!
May one then infer that it is acceptable for a man to listen to a woman sing over a mic?
(1/15/2019 5:18:21 PM)
64
Does it help or hurt
Speaking broadly and loosely, what's missing from this discussion is questioning whether our whole approach today is feeding the problems.

People claim that these events are helpful and even life saving.

That's like saying talking to young teens about safety between the genders is life saving.

What we need to consider is whether any talk on the subject in the first place in an open setting causes more harm than good.

Yes, on an individual basis, you will find people that it helps. However what about in a more broad way that includes not just 1, 2, 3 or whatever number of individuals, but rather 10's, 100's, 1,000's and more, is it helping there as well or causing the destruction of the basic moral fiber of impressionable teens who will be the adults of tomorrow.

You will always find people that get help from basically any approach. But you can't sacrifice our entire way of life, our community, and all its members to fix and help the few. There are ways to do that without changing the fabric of the community. There are settings where these issues can be dealt with, usually in therapy whether individual and/or group. In this way we don't have to tear down the moral fabric of 1,000's and more in order to help the few.

This is a sad and worrisome time (as has always been the case throughout Galus) where people use loud voices, shiny lights, compelling reasons, intense emotions and other such expressions of their opinions to change the fabric of society, and the fallout is terrifying.

This applies both to what happens in America and other societies in general and Lehavdil within our own holy camp.

May Hashem protect us, our families, and our children.
(1/15/2019 5:32:37 PM)
65
Thank you!
Cannot agree with you more!
Thanks for making sense in this crazy world
(1/15/2019 5:52:08 PM)
66
Those attacking R Schochat personally
Keep up with Collive. R Schochat writes op-ed's on all kunds of interesting Halacha controversies that come up and he gives fascinating Halachik backround and history, with always saying that he's not a Rov. Agree with him or disagree, but he spends his free time learning Torah and sharing it with others, all while brave enough to take ownership by writing his name.
He isn't "scared of female power" or all that nonsense. He's open, honest and informative on MANY Halacha/Hashkafa topics.
(1/15/2019 5:54:22 PM)
67
Chen
#61 - I love what you wrote! Maybe we can grab some potato kugel at Mermelstein's and further discuss!
(1/15/2019 5:56:22 PM)
68
MicDrop is a gift
Hi everyone. The name is Rosh Lowe. Not Rob Lowe. Everything I do I do for The Rebbe. The Rebbe clearly said that in the times of moshiach women will be the reincarnations of the women at the time of the Exodus. Let me clear up a misperception, MicDrop is not about exposing trauma or deep dark secrets. MicDrop is a method where the personal narrative is used as a vehicle for inspiration. Authentic communication is the most effective way to inspire. It is okay to question, it is okay to express yourself. The public forum is a gift when a person can realize that they are connected to a greater audience. You are not alone. The women who spoke have received dozens of messages of gratitude. We can not impact if we cant speak. We cant lead if we cant speak. We cant connect if we are not authentic. This is not about therapy. This is about the gift of connection. In order to be a lamplighter you cant isolate yourself in silence.GD bless.
(1/15/2019 6:08:43 PM)
69
To #58
You completely misrepresent what the word "tiflus" means. If you learn the gemoro, learn the Rashi too.

It means that from learning Torah Shebal Peh with it's deep analytical thinking, you will teach her how to be shrewd and cunning.

That has nothing to do with basic chinuch and Jewish education that we give to our girls.

Furthermore, when the Rebbe introduced the concept of women learning Ein Yacov (for which the Litveshe world gave a lot of flack) the Rebbe explained in a Sicha at length why this is permissible according to halacha. Basically, in a nutshell (if I recall correctly):

1) since a woman can make a birchas talmud torah, we see that it is not forbidden al pi halacha

2) there are already established schools like Bais Yacov that are already teaching torah with commentaries, which is from Torah Shebal Peh.

3) Since in todays day and age, unfortunately many women are learning "tiflus" from non-Jewish sources, better they learn it from Jewish sources.

Point being: The Rebbe took that gemoro very seriously and spent a whole sicha explaining why his new (some may say radical) approach was 100% kosher. Nevertheless, he still didn't advocate the learning of regular gemoro as exists in the regular yeshiva world.

Halacha is eternal, regardless of time of place. The agaditah parts of the Talmud, while eternal, are non-binding in Halacha. Even so, the Rebbe made sure that his new edict would comply even with this statement of the gemoro.
(1/15/2019 6:13:55 PM)
70
to 51
don't you dare twist halacha to make it suit you when you want.
a woman singing on a mike, is obviously, not permitted.
don't decide to make wrong comparisons and lead others downhill.
(1/15/2019 6:18:58 PM)
71
To Rosh Lowe #66
What is the downside of a woman only event and women inspire other women?
(1/15/2019 6:19:17 PM)
72
Something rubbing me the wrong way.
Thank COL for posting this op-ed. I often feel like I am in The Emperor Has No Clothes mashal. For those who don't know 2 swindlers sell themselves as tailors and create invisible clothing for the King. The King then parades around without any clothes on. Everyone admires the king and it takes a young boy to point out the emperor has no clothes!
Women exposing their knees their elbows and their hair, long unkempt wigs, stylish gassi cloths and shoes, public displays of personal stories, the look at me phenomenon all reek of a lack of aidlekite the Jewish people are known for. Tznius is the woman's mitzvah. The women of valor is characterized by her fear of Heaven and not her vanity.
(1/15/2019 6:31:43 PM)
73
To Eli Nash #42
Why does it have to be a public debate? will there be tickets to this event sold also?

You are entitled to your opinion about people who want to share their personal stories in public, but don't make it as if it is God's word that everyone with some drama in their life has to get up and share it with the world.
(1/15/2019 6:50:32 PM)
74
Once again...stop this madness!!
First we try to blur womens faces now this??? Stop the satmarazation of Lubavitch!! You know how much the rebbe respected women, just stop trying to shove women and create a male chauvinistic religion which we are NOT!! Check YOUR facts !
(1/15/2019 6:56:00 PM)
75
Hi Rosh
I am sure your intentions are good but there is a standard for Lubavitcher Shluchos. If they are going to be representing The Rebbe then they need to adhere to Halacha and anything that is on the border should err to the side of modesty. I am sure if you do a fair and honest assessment you will admit that not everything that was said was appropriate for a Rebbitzin to say
in public. The forum is fine but it needs to be tailored for a coed audience (if approved by Lubavitch sanctioned Rabbis of your choice so at least you will have someone to defend this).

In any case for the future: I suggest you speak to a rav and get it in writing (post it with your ads), institute a dress code for the Rebbitzins and leave the intimate dealings for a more intimate setting Ie: sans the video.
(1/15/2019 7:11:38 PM)
76
THANK YOU FOR THIS BEAUTIFUL ARTICLE
VERY WELL SAID!
(1/15/2019 7:14:11 PM)
77
my humble opinion
I watched some of the mic drop. One Shlucha kept inferring how beautiful she was and how no one believes she's the Rebetzin cause she's so gorgeous. Honestly, I found that out of taste... is this supposed to inspire the next generation? what? to be beautiful? i think we have enough of that in our gen.

I watched another one that my heart went out to her but again, why expose so much private stuff? and to Eli Nash, exposing abuse in public is very different than exposing your life story.

Exposing abuse and perpetrators IS VERY healing to those who have been abused. This is different.

(1/15/2019 7:17:58 PM)
78
the truth
The real problem with women speaking publicly is what they'll say. I have never met a woman who had something smart to say. In fact, not only do they not say smart things, they say incredibly stupid things.
It's a shame that rabbi schochat had to hide behind the shield of tznius to defend the obvious that women speakers are dangerous because they are being said by women.
The Jewish community used to be a beautiful entity, and then gradually the worst had happened: Women started gaining influence. I remember with immense joy on the olden days when it wasn't considered inappropriate to tell your daughter and wife how to dress, when only men were involved with the spreading of information (such as news sites, which are today run by women), and when it was okay to yell at your wife in public.
(1/15/2019 7:38:20 PM)
79
Sruli and Eli
When will you be holding this public discussion? Sooner than later please!

Would you be willing to do so at no cost so that we all can see, weigh in, ask questions and ultimately do whats best?

I assume everyones intentions are pure so only lgrowing and learning can come from your conversation. IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE!



(1/15/2019 7:39:38 PM)
80
To 78 - This is not about women, follow the thread....
And plus, when was it ever ok to yell at your wife, in public or private? Are you nuts?
(1/15/2019 7:58:56 PM)
81
Too many extreme comments
Nobody is saying woman should be closed in a box, sent off the kitchen, stay isolated and closed off or anything like that.

This is very typical of the political talk we hear from liberals about people that are even very liberal but are against abortion, let alone what they say about conservatives.

You're creating a straw man argument.

The reality is that in Yiddishkiet (and in truth for everyone else as well, maybe to a lesser degree) Tznius is beyond a detail and even beyond being important, it's a major part of our lives.

If someone has an issue with that, that's their choice which they are free to make. But that has nothing to do with this event. That has to do with Yiddishkiet. Once we put Yiddishkiet in place, the question is whether this fits with it or not.

Another upsetting thing to see here is the closed mindedness that the reality is that there are 2 opinions and both may be valid. Each side seems so convinced that they are correct.

Every healthy thinking adult should be able to see and understand that things aren't simple and universal.
(1/15/2019 8:15:17 PM)
82
CH observer
I found what they all said to be inspirational
I did not like the medium which it was done. It felt unsettling to me. The contact would have been more appropriate to solely woman for kirev. Why not have frum mic drooping to a select crowd?
(1/15/2019 8:16:45 PM)
83
Right on #30
We deserve better! There should be standards, just like any job has rules and regulations. It's disheartening to see that shluchim do not adhere to the Rebbe's teaching and mainly it's really confusing for us BTs. We know we shouldn't judge but we do and makes us all wonder what did we sacrifice so much for when you are lowering the bar.
It's hard, we get it, but all those slacking need to be better, remember why you are doing this.
If it's not hit the right reasons do everyone a favor and move on there's a long list of capable candidates yearning for the possibility of going on shluchos.
(1/15/2019 8:16:56 PM)
84
#72
👏👏👏👏👏
(1/15/2019 8:19:48 PM)
85
to #51 A Shliach?
You are an ignoramus. Go ask a Rov and learn a little before you make more of an embarrassment of your Meshalaiach.
(1/15/2019 8:21:33 PM)
86
Totally agree with the author
Women have a specific role in society. they are the keren habayis, foundation of the home.
they are only meant to look attractive to their husbands.(Which is why their hair is meant to be covered in public, although society has become corrupt and women wear shaitels that are less modest than their actual HAIR.) These presentations can distract men from serving hashem with a pure mind. If people have a problem with this, than orthodox judaism is not for you. conservative and reform will be happy to accept you with open arms.
(1/15/2019 8:25:12 PM)
87
Rabbi Sruly
Well written... need not be so humble sharing what needs to be shared. Of course the Rebbe uplifted and believed in women .... but dont take it out of context... not to be publicly cutsie n flirty!
The Rebbetzin came forward with hay teves sad court case etc and was so dignified.... many women speak at the kinus for women and make remarkable impressions...
Dont belittle And twist Halacha
Thank you Rabbi!
(1/15/2019 8:26:10 PM)
88
To Eli Nash
Why does it have to be a mixed crowd? For religious people why can't it be men events for men and women events for women? This way you accomplish your goal, comply with halacha and everyone is happy.

Without getting into the psychology aspect of all this (whether it is truly healthy and therapeutic), in general I think that men cannot relate to women issues and vulnerabilities anyway (and women won't relate as well to male issues either). So it would probably be more productive if it was gender specific.
(1/15/2019 8:35:06 PM)
89
I don't see the problem
kiddush Hashem
Besides, we were given a mouth just like males.
(1/15/2019 8:41:32 PM)
90
Its the why
It is rarely the what that is important, but the why. Intention is essential in everything we do. Mic drops intention is to shed light on universal problems and train people to properly communicate using methods that work. Before posting a comment please ask yourself what is my intention?. If it is to engage in healthy debate , more power to you. If your intention is to be condescending or to prove anyone wrong , perhaps you could benefit from what mic drop has to offer . Ah, the irony..
(1/15/2019 8:44:16 PM)
91
#51
I really hope you are not a shliach that represents the Rebbe , that can make such an absurd statement.
if you are a shliach, please run all your views by a rov before representing them as Chabad.

right , we don't use a mike for a chazan.

wrong, we don't have our women perform in front of mixed audiences. mike or no mike- don't make that the base of your justification.


and yes, I am a woman that supports halacha and appreciates it too.


these speeches may have been great..but would have best been woman- to woman.
(1/15/2019 9:14:40 PM)
92
To 78
Although I dont find it appropriate for women to spill their guts out in front of men and a camera ( Im a girl myself) I am SHOCKED by how sexist you are! If you are truly Lubavitch you would not think that way.
Col why would you put that up?
(1/15/2019 9:35:52 PM)
93
To Eli and Rosh
I'm happy to see you engaging with the criticism head on. I'd like to respond to points each of you made.

Eli, you want to debate a random commentator on a blog, because you feel that MicDrop is really that beneficial. You used a key word in your response: opinion. The truth is, when you're selling a product, opinions are your bottom line. However, when it comes to therapy, laymen's opinions are essentially worthless. Instead of debating other people with opinions in the comment section, why don't you get professional opinions from the experts and publish them?

Rosh, you say that everything you do is for the Rebbe and I'm going to take you at your word. I don't know you, but everything I've heard about you from people who do says you're a stand-up guy, a genuinely good person. Here's my challenge to you: for the Rebbe, run your format by some respected rabbis, because that's what the Rebbe would want you to do. Follow their advice and publish their guidelines, and then the narrative can focus on the positive outcomes of your sessions instead of pointless debates about laymen's halachic opinions.

Here's something people who comment on these things don't seem to realize: *everything* the Rebbe did, he consulted Rabbonim. If the Rebbe made sure that his directives and his path of Judaism was under Rabbinic supervision, how can we try to parse his words and intentions without following his example of consulting Rabbonim?
(1/15/2019 10:27:28 PM)
94
To 78
That was very funny!
Just beware that not everyone gets this kind of humor.
(1/15/2019 10:54:04 PM)
95
Are we Chareidim or not?
A lot of threads going on here.
But it boils down to the question if Chabad is Charedi or not.
I don't mean Chareidi as in "isolated off from society."
I mean Chareidi as in someone who tries to keep halacha to the highest possible standard.
Perhaps reading the Rebbe's sichos and letters might shed light on this.
(1/15/2019 11:27:13 PM)
96
Hal
Totally agree with this article! Our community has let the standards of halachah slip so far. There are so many times we put women and girls in untznius situations, I think even high school and sem classes should only be taught by women so our girls can learn in a tznius way.
(1/15/2019 11:49:54 PM)
97
As a Shlucha- I agree with Author
Speaking to a woman s crowd is one thing. Speaking to men and women is another. I wonder if we have got lost along the way.. Time to reclaim our tznius back . Who is going to lead?
(1/16/2019 12:12:10 AM)
98
#51 is correct
There is technically no Issur here.

The question that can be asked is, does this lead to Yiras Shomayim? For that you need to ask a Rov or Mashpia.

However, there is certainly nothing that forbids this and Sruli is by no means an authority.
(1/16/2019 1:17:45 AM)
99
Not ok for woman to spill their guts out to men.
Why is it ok for men to spill their guts out to women?
Double standard much
(1/16/2019 7:21:51 AM)
100
This is hilarious
BTW, all of the leftist "women's rights" ladies comments here are great. We have a right to blah blah blah, we're not second class citizen, we can make an impact blah blah blah. Who are you to tell me who are you what gives you a right.

Interestingly enough, this is basically the same bunch of lines I hear from the angry african american women screaming on the subway.

Congrats ladies, you have completely left reality. BH, my wife is a normal human being. She has a great impact on other women and she is not some power-crazed lunatic. Unfortunately it seems that this is what happens when women spend too much time on facebook. They come up with all sorts of radical and disproportionate reactions to basic situations that are not even a big deal. Get over yourselves. They decide vaccines are bad, public displays of immodesty are okay. Basically, enjoy your life ladies.
(1/16/2019 7:31:37 AM)
101
savtamiami
I greatly appreciate the article and the tone with which it was written. I'm just an out of town grandmother, and old time BT. And I am in no way passing judgment on the micdrop, but in some areas, tsnius is not our strong suit. Just saying.
(1/16/2019 8:41:22 AM)
102
The bottom line is
The bottom line is, Eli and Rosh have created a great platform that is beneficial for the speaker as well as those present watching.
In our community, and in Halacha , the only place for woman to share in such a way should be to a crowd of all woman. There should be a MicDrop specifically geared for ladies. The same way we dont have Co-Ed dorms or bathrooms in our schools and yeshivas- Woman personal business is only modest when shared with other woman
(1/16/2019 9:17:43 AM)
103
To 99
Hahaha, that was great.

I'm assuming it must be a joke. When do men ever go around spilling their guts to anyone, let alone women who are complete strangers?
We don't. So far it's working. I speak with my wife and my mashpia. It is more than sufficient.

What is blatantly obvious from the few comments I read here is that a lot of people need a lot of help learning how to deal with reality. On both sides of this issue.

Women, go make an impact on other women. MicDrop is a great idea, needs to follow certain very basic guidelines. I'm not sure how this is even a debate. Halacha crusaders, relax a bit, everyone is holding where they are holding.
(1/16/2019 9:46:28 AM)
104
#96
I see what you did there.
(1/16/2019 11:18:54 AM)
105
corporation
I think it would be wise for chabad to have standards of their shluchim.
Just like any other corporation has uniforms or dress codes so must shluchim adhere.
Secular careers have a code of conduct so must shluchim.
You dont make change with your 15 minute moment of limelight.
The shluchot I grew up with were very aidle and beyond intelligent women in both secular and judaic subjects. They never made public speeches but held small shiurs in their home weekly. We got to see them living life by example, small kids climbing all over them while they taught, no nannies- messy home and all it was wonderful.
They were not selling a product, but something, not glitz or glamor.
I had such respect for them. When I struggle with my big family I look back at those shluchos homes, always welcoming and kid friendly, very simple way of living, they were not distracted by the material possesions.

When I moved to florida the contrast was striking. I showed up at a shlucha's home and she answered the door barefoot, the home was filled with designer furniture, she talked to me about shopping and restaurants while the nanny cared for the kids and cared for the kids in shul too.

Being a good frundraiser does not always make you a good shliach. What struck me about the Rebbe was how simply he lived, he was on a mission. I think its time to get back to that mission. There are so many shluchas with fashion social media pages that is borderline tznius and its so hard to see whats become of lubavitch. Most of my MO friends alway bring it up and ask me why lubavitchers are so untznius.

Tznius is not just a way of dressing its the way we act and that goes for the men as well. I used to look up to shluchim now I just see them as community directors just like a JCC
(1/16/2019 11:30:19 AM)
106
Clarity on yud shvat
Please see Basi legani 5710 chapter 3.

It says it all and then some.
(1/16/2019 12:42:51 PM)
107
To number 105
While I understand what you are writing I would encourage you to see the many shluchim and shluchim in Florida who are quite chassiddish and have been raising remarkably good families kah . Looking for the positive in a realistic way is the healthy way to make it.
(1/16/2019 1:39:51 PM)
108
To #86 you're wrong
How can you talk like that?? A woman's job Is to only look good to her husband? And be at home?
You have got to be kidding.
Oh, and a woman should not have to take responsibility for how how a man serves hashem. That is between himself and hashem.
(1/16/2019 6:06:18 PM)
109
To #100
Thank you for your invaluable advice. I will indeed try to enjoy my life and stick to reality. I can't believe women are claiming to have independent intelligent thoughts. So ridiculous. Women using the internet, getting educated, sharing their thoughts and ideas... very dangerous! Indeed this can lead to women coming up with all sorts of radical and disproportionate ideas such as sharing their thoughts and feelings with others, creating change in their environments, and empowering others. Very very dangerous indeed. These emotional unhinged women who speak of self improvement and empowerment must be stopped! Perhaps you can share some more of your masculine incredibly logic advice to guide us silly women. Thank you, you are amazing! We would not be able to think of any of these great ideas you suggested if you had not shown us the way! Tzidku Lemitzvos xoxo
(1/16/2019 7:48:37 PM)
110
honesty can be healing and tsnius to an extreme can lead to boundaries that were created by an afraid society not a merciful creature.


The motivation behind MicDrop, what it's about, etc. As I believe you to be sincere in your opinion, I would like to invite you to a public discussion on this topic.

You believe that it is undignified for people to share personal stories; I believe it is life-saving, essential and repressing it is one of the most dangerous things imaginable.
(1/16/2019 11:10:22 PM)
111
Public Discussion
I find it ironic that those supporting micdrop are inviting members from the public opposition to a "dialogue"

It would be more appropriate, genuine, authentic and "vulnerable" to read through Rabbi Shuchat's article and it's sources, "internalize" the message, address the concerns he raises, have a rov or two weigh in and once we have that we can all accept the gadlus of mic drop and move on. What happened to looking to rabonim for guidance?
(1/17/2019 8:35:01 AM)
112
To 110
Noone said anywhere to repress anything.

All the was suggested, is given the nature of the style of speech (sharing vulnerabilities etc.), it would be best to do male events for men and female events for women.
(1/17/2019 8:58:04 AM)
113
I am a woman
I am a woman, and I defend the author, who I have never met. In a spirit of kindness, he made a short halachic analysis. Women, I ask you: why were you so quick to condemn him? Why are you so quick to read ill intentions into his words? What motivates women to feel they need to discuss their personal life in a mixed audience? What do they gain that they could not by having the same event for women only? Do some of our shluchos feel that it will make religious Jews more beloved or humanize us more?
I am quite sure that much of the ignorance, brashness, and misunderstanding comes because there needs to be more education, starting in high school, in halachic topics, starting with mishna. More than that: Some of us women should take the lead in returning to a life of less conspicuous consumption. Such as: spending less on bar mitzvahs, nail salons, restaurants. They de- emphasize the ikar, by prioritizing the body over the neshama. Note: I did NOT say to never do your nails or eat in a restaurant. However, the millenia-old, ever fresh, love of Torah and awe of Hashem must never be pushed aside because of any other value.
--MS





(1/17/2019 10:59:29 AM)
114
Humility and clarity.
The supposed criteria include" If her words are such that would cause a closeness, i.e. meeting of the minds"

"meeting of the minds"? So agreement? A woman shouldn't be listened to if she intends on helping two people, one of which could be her, to agree on something? Is that correct? What kind of "closeness"? Is this a euphemism? If it's a euphemism is that appropriate when attempting to be accurate in speaking about halacha? Halacha is about exactitude. What do you mean "closeness" and "meeting of the minds"?

"if the man that is listening, is intent on listening to the sweetness of her voice"

So we must ask the man "why are you listening?" or the woman must be prophetic/psychic and know why the guy is or isn't listening? Does that seem real to you? Does that seem like halacha?

"if the man intends to derive pleasure from her words. "

Again, how is anyone supposed to know this? Should the guy just say "Hey, I'm really not listening to you, I just get aroused by your voice, so keep talking"?

Your article lacks humility. You did not allow for the possibiilty that you could be wrong. R. Moshe Feinstein wrote often in Igros Moshe "L'fi aniyat da'ati". R. Moshe also often suggested people ask their local rabbi. HE was a great man. He often admitted he could be wrong, and he was just stating his opinion. Your writing comes off as if to say this is the law, and the law is the law. Your application of the law is apparently subject to disagreement. Think about that the next time you write something for public consumption.
(1/17/2019 1:12:11 PM)
115
just saying the rambams veiw on things
although things are a bit diffirent now, still the general perspective on the way things ought to be is the same.
"Nevertheless, it is uncouth for a woman always to leave home - this time to go out and another time to go on the street. Indeed, a husband should prevent a wife from doing this and not allow her to go out more than once or twice a month, as is necessary.15 For there is nothing more attractive for a woman than to sit in the corner of her home, as [implied by Psalms 45:14]: "All the glory of the king's daughter is within."
(1/17/2019 3:04:38 PM)
116
To #114 - who clearly didn't read the article
From the article itself:

"This is not meant to be viewed as halachic ruling, for which I am not qualified."

" From there, the reader is of course welcome to continue to do their own research and discuss it with their Rov or Mashpia."

"Again, I could very well be wrong and if the speakers spoke with their Rov or Mashpia, ones that are familiar with such matters, and they got the green light, who am I to criticize?"

Sounds like humility to me. Of course to someone with a chip on their shoulder, everything seems like criticism.
(1/17/2019 8:15:45 PM)
117
THE MOST IMPORTANT LINES OF THIS ARTICLE APPLY TO ALL LUBAVITCHERS NOT JUST SHLUCHOS
You represent everything the Rebbe holds dear. The Rebbe was unquestionable and unshakeable in his adherence to Halacha, in the fullest sense of the word. Both in the law itself, as well as the spirit of the law.
(1/19/2019 1:38:13 PM)
118
We dont do standards. But when we do, its double standards
@96- There was a situation a few years back where a seminary rabbi was fired from his position because he was getting too close to the girls. Most seminaries still have rabbis teaching and farbrenging with 17 and 18 year old girls. When I was in seminary rabbis would get totally trashed at farbrengens and tell us very strange things. Waiting for an op-ed on that one.
(1/20/2019 10:19:19 AM)
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