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Wednesday, 26 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 6, 2024

Anti Vaxxers Sue Oholei Torah

Crown Heights residents Sholom and Esther Laine are suing the Oholei Torah school for rejecting their son who wasn’t vaccinated. Full Story

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Vaccine cautious over anti vaxx label
November 20, 2018 7:15 pm

I don’t like the terminology of “pro/anti vaxx”. It’s very limited and formalic. I think vaccine cautious is a more accurate term. I would like to think most people fit into this category that they take the time to research what they are injecting into their bodies and considered risk/ reward factor

Wisdom of crowds
November 19, 2018 9:15 pm

Herd immunity. Deadly illnessness. Completely safe for healthy children. Vaccine injuries are rare. Scientifically proven. 97% effectiveness. Where are you getting all these “facts”? Where is the information coming from? Are you just parrotting what you’ve heard? Have any of you done any of your own research? Or are you blindly believing everything you’ve been told? Show me the research, please! Don’t just repeat what you hear. Show me the science. Show me the statistics. Back it up! Why are you blindly following what your doctor says? Is he G-d or the rebbe? I don’t know about you, but there’s… Read more »

to #60
November 14, 2018 5:08 pm

Are you serious? Are you actually saying that children are EMOTIONALLY DAMAGED BY NEEDLES!!! Give me a break. Kids don’t like vaccinations because they hurt. They cry for a few minutes at most, then they get a sticker, and they feel better about the scary needle by the time they get home. You call that emotional damage? Besides, it goes without saying that children are hurt much more by devastating diseases such as measles, mumps, rubella…all of which can be prevented by the big, scary needle that your child won’t even remember by the next day.

thank you #207!
November 9, 2018 7:56 am

Thank you #207. The world has gone mad, blindly trusting the masses without even reading any information about the real dangers of vaccines.
If you want to learn more, please read newly published bestseller “How to end the autism epidemic” by JB Handley.

vaccina?
November 7, 2018 12:31 am

there are manyl who use alternatiVe medicine for so many many things(without vaccini NATION. AM SURE THERE MUST b SOMETHING FROM ALTERNATIVE TO HELP US ALL

To #207
November 6, 2018 3:51 pm

You must be kidding. Colleges today are basically trade schools. Unless you’re living on campus in Berkeley, colleges today look nothing like those of the 1950’s and 1960’s. Look at the Rebbe’s sichos against college from the 1950’s where he describes colleges and the dangers to the yiddishe neshomo and compare that to your run of the mill college of today. Academics lament the dumming down of today’s colleges where students come to get a specific degree and move on in life.

What does the Crown Heights Beis DIn
November 6, 2018 8:49 am

say about vaccinations?

To # 83
November 5, 2018 10:57 pm

If your children only coughed for a week they probably didn’t have whooping cough, they probably had croup. A Nick name for whooping cough is the 100 day cough. When I caught whooping cough from my neighbors unvaccinated kids, I coughed for months. I had to carry bags around with me because the coughing caused me to vomit constantly. I missed months of work and until today I am dealing with the permanent health issues caused by the whooping cough.

202 to 204
November 5, 2018 9:38 pm

Secular studies didn’t change, ingredients and the schedule of the vaccines changes drastically. If you do see it, it’s an indicator that you didn’t do your research. When I was a kid I got 8 vaccines till the age of 5, each were given only separately, only when I completely healthy and didn’t have any cold, flu, etc. For the past month, and I was monitored for the other 2 months regarding my reactions etc. My first kids got 53 vaccens by the age of 5!! You see the difference?! And many of them were combos- 3-8 vaccens in one… Read more »

To 202
November 5, 2018 5:59 pm

Perhaps people looked into the new English and science curriculum which is very different to the one the Rebbe was against, and have decided that it is therefore fine to teach it to kids?

The Rebbe’s views on medicine were always based on the views of the medical community, which is as supportive of vaccines now as they were then.

Your reasoning for abandoning the Rebbe’s absolutely clear advice regarding vaccines is completely wrong.

Frivolous Suit
November 5, 2018 5:32 pm

B”H, the Laines have no chance of winning. Oholei Torah is a private school and has the right to accept or reject whomever it wants. Kol hakavod to Oholei Torah for standing strong to protect our precious children’s health, in accordance with the directives of the Rebbe!

Menchlichkeit
November 5, 2018 4:48 pm

I think every single individuals opinion matters. I think it matters that we we’re all created with the capability to use our minds and think for ourselves. I think it matters, that as Jews, we have freedom of choice. I think It matters whether people speak up or not. Most importantly though, I think that how we treat each other, matters most. In the graduate school for my profession, One of the main things that we learned is how to respect each other in public and reconcile our differences in private. It is a message that every single individual in… Read more »

To 200
November 5, 2018 3:46 pm

I’ve read nearly all the comments here and that one is the most nonsensical of all.
I can’t believe that something so opposed to everything the Rebbe wrote and basic Sechel too is being written here.

Stop bringing Rebbe into your agenda's!!
November 5, 2018 2:57 pm

This is simply sick to see so many times ppl bring something that the Rebbe answered to some Chassidim who asked about a specific immunization 40-30 years ago!! and all of a sudden this became written in gold and followed and referred to on so many occasions to fight anti-vaxers without any research into the vax schedule of those times, the manufacturers, ingredients, weather or not there were combo vaccines at that time etc. And yet ppl can’t get over the fact that someone who did so the research and discovered a hug3 change that took place within these 40-30… Read more »

To 200
November 5, 2018 2:21 pm

You don’t seem to understand how probability works. Given that there are the same conditions each time the highway is crossed, the probability of being hit is the same each time and does not increase with repetition.

To clarify 164.
November 5, 2018 8:45 am

I was responding to 34 which says the Torah gives permission to the doctor to heal. Healing by definition is to help someone who’s sick or injured. Vaccination is given to the HEALTHY. If you say Ushemartem Es Nafshosehem, then you should worry about the kashrus and that you’re causing a blemish in your body. Why are you allowed to vaccinate? A better analogy would be: It’s like crossing a highway for fear of something that might be chasing you. The more times you do it, the greater the odds of getting hit. There are dead animals all over the… Read more »

Life is all about assessing risk
November 4, 2018 7:08 pm

ANYTHING “can happen” at any time. You can c’v get run over by a carc walking to shul. You can get hit by a drunk driver on the highway. You can c’v choke the next time you eat or fall down the stair the next time you go downstairs. Yet, we engage in these activities numerous times daily.

Remove emotion from the conversation.

To 197
November 4, 2018 6:08 pm

That is an excellent excellent point There is truly no way of knowing how the vaccine will effect the individual until it’s actually injected. There is also bad lots fro shoddy manufacturing . Vaccines are manufactured in China. The over sight there is terrible and they are known to cut corners . In fact during Tishrei an article came up that exposed that MOST of honey manufactured in China actually wasn’t pur or honey at all. In fact one brand wasn’t honey all together it was maple syrup with sugar! One can only image If they are tampering with vaccine… Read more »

Why is everyone so extreme
November 4, 2018 5:31 pm

I have mixed feelings when it comes to vaccines. It’s a risk when you vaccinate your children since there’s a possibility they can develop any variety of neurological diseases or even get the disease itself from the vaccine. This tragically happens when the virus in some vaccines grow more Potent. The issue is not black and white.

194
November 4, 2018 5:16 pm

The whooping cough bacteria seems to have mutated. Bacteria and virus can do this in response to vaccines and antibiotics. Two of my son’s got the mumps and they had the MMR on the cdc schedule. The board of health told me at the time it was a mutant another strain. I hope you fully recover. Now you have life time immunity to the whooping cough as opposed to having to repeat the Dtap for life which many seniors haven’t tolerated well.

Sincerely would like to know the religious source
November 4, 2018 4:34 pm

I have never heard of lubacitch rov who said not to vaccinate.

IS there one???
can we get an opposing article so i can learn the anti vax side????

Attn #83
November 4, 2018 4:19 pm

I am also vaccinated against whooping cough a disease that was formerly eradicated disease. It has now resurfaced DUE TO IRRESPONSIBLE individuals who refuse to immunize their children, so while you didn’t get it, I DID! I am a senior citizen who has NOT fully recovered. So get your facts straight. Perhaps your children “bounced back,” but I haven’t!!!

Sick
November 4, 2018 3:30 pm

All those that are Anti Vaxxers: I couldn’t care less if you will or never did vaccinate your child that’s completely your business! But I find it horribly selfish that my kid will one day come home with a nasty illness! All thanks to YOU. Whatever you do affects your environment. People have to start realizing this!!!

To 190
November 4, 2018 3:13 pm

Clearly you don’t understand what 97 % effective means, nor do you understand the herd mentality concept regarding those in the general population who are unable ( NOT unwillng) to be vaccinated.

The silliest argument
November 4, 2018 3:03 pm

For the laines position is “their emunah”. I’m sure they are fine upstanding yidden and tremendous baalei emunah, however, I’m also willing to bet they have health and life insurance policies. That is proper hishtadlus. They are claiming that vaccinations are not proper hishtadlus. Your stat ment about their emuna is not just a straw man argument, it is downright foolish. It is beneath you.

Measles
November 4, 2018 1:35 pm

For those that claim that there is a problem with measles outbreak ,one minute I thought if you are immunenised you protected you can’t get it anymore so what’s the problem if you kids that are not immunized are together with those that are immunenised you won’t be able to catch it. But if you are worried about it doesn’t it show that you are not sure. When injecting the sickness in kids you have a bigger chance to contact the disease.

To #164/187
November 4, 2018 12:03 pm

First of all, we don’t have “blind faith” in vaccination; it’s a treatment that has been proven to work, so we use it like any other natural keli for Hashem’s berachah. Next, no one is saying that “Life and Death is random”; it’s in Hashem’s hands, but again, we have to do our own hishtadlus. Tell me: since on Yom Kippur it’s determined how much money you will have for the year, does that mean that you don’t have to go to work, because Hashem will provide you that money without effort on your part? Since on Yom Kippur it’s… Read more »

Measles
November 4, 2018 11:56 am

Are not dangerous for children. The death rate from measles BEFORE the vaccine came out was approx 3 in 10 thousand. The death and complocation rate from MMR as per vaccien court is far far more. Do your own research.

Torah gives permissi
November 4, 2018 8:52 am

Vaccines are supposed to be given to healthy children. Except for those who have “Blind Faith” in vaccination; Let’s examine honestly what vaccination is: It starts with the premise that Life and Death is random. Let’s inject this potentially Deadly substance into your healthy child in order to prevent certain annoying diseases which in certain circumstances can lead to death. As Jews we believe God is in control. On Yom Kippur we are sealed, who shall live, and who shall die… In our daily prayers we say, May it be Your will to protect me every day From… unnatural death,… Read more »

Spotlight on Bais Rivkah & Lubavitch Yeshiva
November 4, 2018 8:16 am

It’s carless and dangerous to allow unvaccinated kids into your schools. You must change your policy immediately!

Antivaxxers never mention the Rebbe
November 4, 2018 7:29 am

Because it is clear and beyond doubt the Rebbe supported vaccines and the medical community. Really makes me wonder what religion antivaxxers really believe, because it isn’t Judaism. Well not Chabad Judaism anyway.

@180
With that line of reasoning, I’m guessing if your kids become sick you wouldn’t give them antibiotics either.

To #177
November 4, 2018 6:56 am

That’s fine, then. And we will not be dictated by you, who will sue our schools and engage in other such tactics to force them – and us – to accommodate your conspiracy theories and warped views. You know, in exactly the same way as you have people calling for socialism because they’ve experienced the flaws of capitalism (and there are some, of course, as in any human-designed and -run system), where they might think differently if they did a little bit of reading of history, or had a short talk with an elder chossid or other person who lived… Read more »

Dear #130
November 4, 2018 6:49 am

You are an embarrassment to my species.
Please explain how measles isn’t dangerous to the 2.6 million people who died of it in 1980, the 545,000 who died in 1990, and the 73,000 who died in 2014.

#180
November 4, 2018 5:35 am

The only poison is the parents who would risk disease and plague in our community because of their antivaxx brainwashing

Religious exemption
November 4, 2018 5:35 am

Lots of States offer this option to parents – and hundreds of Lubavitcher kids can BH take advantage of it. If you’re so afraid of your kid contracting a disease – keep your kid home.
I hope the Lsines win this case

All bunch of judgemental people
November 4, 2018 12:42 am

These parents have the right to do what they want they have Emuna that the Abishter will make sick whoever she wants so why do we need these dumb vaccines to be injected in our kids and newborns! All of you could scream Home school till tomm but they will win this court case and all of you pro vaxxers will home school your poisoned children if you want to!! So many dissscusting comments that is imbarassing for his community shame on you people This family has a lot of Koah and they should continue to fight this school till… Read more »

Don't call them Anti Vaxxers They should be called Vaccine Skeptics
November 4, 2018 12:25 am

Good for the parents, tyranny of the majority should not scare these parents. I myself am not vaccinated, and B”H I haven’t gotten sick in years. You people who can’t think alternatively from the mainstream are dummy’s, and when you listen to whatever your doctor says without being semi skeptical, that’s because your a dummy. That’s all!

Everything is from Hashem
November 4, 2018 12:16 am

We must keep our energy in holy matters in order to have a positive effect on everyone and everything around us. Be careful of what we say in front of our children so that we keep them from becoming judgmental. You’re all beautiful creations from Hashem and we each need to be open to being a vessel for shining his holy light. Let’s stay focused on what really matters.

To 167
November 3, 2018 11:30 pm

Low risk doesn’t mean ANY risk. We will decide as the parents which risks to take or not for OUR children . As you decide which is best for YOURS
It will never ever be dictated by outsiders . Nobody’s child is a “statistic”.

Healthy Kids
November 3, 2018 11:25 pm

I chose not to vax when kids were young because I feared the risk of vaccine injury more than the diseases. They are kah so healthy. I don’t think any of the 6 ever had an earache, for example. As they reach close to puberty I checked if they were immune to mumps and when they weren’t I gave them mmr. Same for the girls re Rubella. WHY WON’T THE CDC DO A STUDY ON THE HEALTH OF UNVACCINATED CHILDREN, OR LATE VACCINATORS. we need to ask ourselves this uncomfortable question.

Loshon hora?
November 3, 2018 11:00 pm

The one who causes this are the parents who have no concern for others.WHen u go against a school and sue against the normal laws of a state YOU are the ones bringing on loshon hora. They want this.For their religious cause.Dont blame a community for what they did!!!

NCVIA
November 3, 2018 10:31 pm

Research National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act
Unfourtanly vaccine injuries are common and real they range from mild to severe and life-threatening. There is a reason people questions vaccines. open your eyes…

SOOO MANY COMMENTS - PROS & CONS...
November 3, 2018 10:14 pm

NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND SHOULD AGREE WITH THESE NAIVE & SELFISH PARENTS.
I’m a Retired RN from a Third World Country, & witnessed too many deaths from Communicable Diseases.
For goodness sake, it’s 2018…TG FOR IMMUNIZATIONS!
Everywhere in the world CHILDREN MUST BE IMMUNIZED in & up-to-date with them to be able to attend both Public & Private Schools.
The Mantra goes as such: “No Immunizations…Homeschool your children”!!!!! 😡😡

Loshon hora?
November 3, 2018 10:11 pm

The one who causes this are the parents who have no concern for others.WHen u go against a school and sue against the normal laws of a state YOU are the ones bringing on loshon hora. They want this.For their religious cause.Dont blame a community for what they did!!!

ABUSE
November 3, 2018 10:03 pm

I don’t have the patience to read all the comments so it’s possible someone already pointed this out; These parents are being abusive to their own child by not giving him the protection against this disease via a simple vaccination. Let the laines speak to some of the people, right here in Crown Heights who have to live their entire lives with a crippled arm or leg due to polio because they were unable to get a polio vaccine. All these people that don’t vaccinate their children are playing a dangerous game at their childrens expense.. they have to be… Read more »

Reality check
November 3, 2018 9:52 pm

For all those who say they wont let their kids go to a school with unvaccinated children, beis rivkah, lubavitch yeshiva, lubavitch yeshiva ocean parkway all accept religious exemptions and have unvaccinated kids in their schools.

We need to sign a petition for beth rivka
November 3, 2018 9:41 pm

Beis rivka allows children whom were not vaccinated….
When they get a petition signed by parents they will change this
Let’s get together and keep our children safe
Safe from diseases that can pass by and not affect our community.
PleAse!!!!
Let’s not be selfish
Our kids need us to protect them. We send them to school, let’s make sure they are sitting near someone who was vaccinated( the least we can do)

882ab
November 3, 2018 9:38 pm

did the Rebbe ever say anything about vaccinations???? did I miss that being brought up? this is all so tragic. alot of points were brought up in this forum. we have to read all of this with alot of thought before bringing it to casual conversations. AGREE with #145 that alot of us are pro-vaccinate but we all have to be anti-loshon hora. very serious issue here, be cautious which direction it goes in. Halachas for loshon hora were not created for when people have no conflict, it was created for when there IS conflict and issues to guide us… Read more »

To #147
November 3, 2018 9:37 pm

Learn to read, please. “Statistically insignificant” means exactly that – there’s a very low chance of something happening. Not that if it does happen, it’s insignificant to the person and to their family.

The callous person here is you, who deliberately misunderstands something like that to attack others, and who is using other people’s suffering to push your warped and twisted agenda.

Vaccines cause autism!!!!
November 3, 2018 9:34 pm

Vaccines cause autism!!!
End of story all you people would rather have autistic kids without measles…. There’s no limit to your blindnes

In response to those who ask about religous exemptions
November 3, 2018 9:33 pm

If you check this link from your the CDC website, https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf, look at the ingredients in vaccines.

For one, there are kashrus concerns. African green monkey cells.

Also, abortions are against halacha, and some vaccines have aborted fetal cells in them.

There are more reasons. Do your research. Don’t believe everything everyone says.

The Torah gives permission for the Doctor to heal.
November 3, 2018 9:11 pm

Vaccines are supposed to be given to healthy children. Except for those who have “Blind Faith” in vaccination; Let’s examine honestly what vaccination is: It starts with the premise that Life and Death is random. Let’s inject this potentially Deadly substance into your healthy child in order to prevent certain annoying diseases which in certain circumstances can lead to death. As Jews we believe God is in control. On Yom Kippur we are sealed, who shall live, and who shall die… In our daily prayers we say, May it be Your will to protect me every day From… unnatural death,… Read more »

A plea from a Pittsburger and former-vaxer
November 3, 2018 9:09 pm

Please stop the unbelievable sinas chinim and loshan hora at a time when we desperately need ahavas Yisroel. We need to agree to disagree in the areas of vaccines and politics.

im confused
November 3, 2018 8:50 pm

this family chooses to send their child to a particular religious institution, presumeably because they adhere to that religion and wish to have their child educated in that religious system. how then can they argue they have a religious exemption againt a policy that is held by the school? seems hypocritical, regardless of how much tzedaka they may, or may not give. those who are immunized are 97% assured statisticly of not contracting the illness, however, there is a population in every community that is not immunized at all. very young children, people with certain allergies, people with weakened immune… Read more »

If you don't believe in vaccines
November 3, 2018 8:47 pm

Then don’t go to a doctor if you ever break a bone or need surgery. Go to jenny mccarthy and maybe she will cure you with some herbs and ooom chakra oom voodoo witchcraft. For a small fee of course.

Yeshiva policy is wrong
November 3, 2018 8:45 pm

I don’t believe for a mili second the Rebbe would have sanctioned a child’s chinuch being placed on conditions .

Crazy!!!
November 3, 2018 8:24 pm

#62 agree!!! Well said!!
Agree with all of you who state disgusting to take OT to court!! Shame on you … find another school who share your beliefs ( no matter how ridiculous you have that right to choose.) Or home school!!!! They shouldn’t go to shul either!!!!
We are not GD but we must do what we must to protect our precious ones!!!!

Wondering
November 3, 2018 8:23 pm

Why is anyone worried about the non immunised kids coming to the school, if you’re kids are immunised you have nothing to worry about…

Mom
November 3, 2018 8:20 pm

I can understand people for being so upset and angered. Due to the parents who don’t vaccinate; newborns and pregnant women and the like are at risk now for the measles. It’s very scary.

Parents that found the truth!
November 3, 2018 8:13 pm

This family is amazing! Shame on all of you that are trying to discourage them! Tha Vaccines are one big money making industry that are happy to see more and more people getting sick, you have to b blind not to get that! It is something out of this world to see so many Yidden that are posting so many disgusting comments! May Hashem have pitty on you! Bec we don’t know who you are when posting such comments doesn’t give you the right to say such mean things! The world is not Efker last time I checked!! Mamash a… Read more »

Unfair to babies
November 3, 2018 8:12 pm

All children under a year are at serious risk when exposed to measles. Why should helpless infants have to be exposed to your non-vaccinated child? They aren’t even old enough for us to vaccinate them!

To #20
November 3, 2018 7:58 pm

You need to be put in jail for even entertaining a ship of selfish delusional individuals who only care about their new religion of passionate antis. Awful beyond belief.

An opportunity
November 3, 2018 7:52 pm

For OT to tell the world that there is NO religious exemption in chabad to be anti vax because the Rebbe was pro vaccine and doctors

STOP
November 3, 2018 7:22 pm

I’m the 136 comment and i haven’t seen 1 comment that stops you guys. No matter how much the laine family is wrong you shouldn’t be talking badly about them on a Jewish chabad website. The Rebbe was so against Loshon hara.

Shocked!!
November 3, 2018 7:19 pm

How low some of these comments are against people who are fighting for their child’s health!!! Sickening how narrow minded pro vaxxers can get!!! Thank GD you did not experience or hear enough of those hurt from vaccinations. Every single anti vaxxer has done the research, most are very intelligent, caring people who think for themselves instead of conveniently going with the flow. Most of the pro vaxxers are not thinking it through deeply enough, or just get hysterical that someone didn’t vaccinate. How can you force someone to inject what they firmly believe is hArmful to their child?? Of… Read more »

Yankel
November 3, 2018 7:13 pm

We really need moshiach now! Stop this loshan hara

Logical
November 3, 2018 7:13 pm

ALL decisions have consequences . People can’t be expected to make a decision for the sake of those who won’t bear the responsibility or consequences of that decision.

freedom of choice, religion and speach!
November 3, 2018 7:10 pm

I am pro choice! and I support the Laines for fighting for their legal rights. It is very dangerous when ppl make up laws and discriminate. not to give a vaccine is natural. to put a toxin into your kids body and assume they will handle it and gain immunity, is not natural. so the real question is, why do YOU vaccinate? have you done proper research, not just listen to the harping from the ppl gaining endless $$$$ for every vaccine you take? if you do your proper research, and still choose to vaccinate, I respect that more than… Read more »

To 138
November 3, 2018 6:33 pm

“statistically insignificant possibilities of injuries ”

So these vaccine injured children and their families are defined as “insignifiicant” . These precious vaccine injured children , children who were born healthy and now have chronic incurable health/psychosocial problems are hardly “insignificant” to their parents and their families. What a callous way to define a human being and and an insult to their caregivers .

An oholei Torah parent
November 3, 2018 6:28 pm

Thank you OT for keeping my son safe.

observer from london uk
November 3, 2018 6:08 pm

I am pro vaccinating our children but anti Loshon horah. This is bringing out the worst in all of us let`s stop it NOW

Wow
November 3, 2018 9:48 am

B”H I don’t live in Crown Heights, you people are nuts. If someone doesn’t like a certain school’s policies, feel free to send your kid elsewhere or make your own school. It’s been done before!

And Bais Rivkah??
November 2, 2018 4:19 pm

They must have children in other crown heights schools too. Is the policy also similar across the board?

STOP
November 2, 2018 3:59 pm

I’m the 136 comment and i haven’t seen 1 comment that stops you guys. No matter how much the laine family is wrong you shouldn’t be talking badly about them on a Jewish chabad website. The Rebbe was so against Loshon hara.

What a Chilul Hashem
November 2, 2018 3:53 pm

Wish all schools would follow in Oholei Torahs footsteps. Shame on a frum couple who are misguided and putting not only their child, but opening up the risk for others. Some kids DEPEND on herd immunity. Talk to any Rav…all vax are allowed and even encouraged it could be pikuach nefesh. What are they waiting for the return of polio?

To 133
November 2, 2018 3:51 pm

I know thousands of people who have taken vaccines, none of whom have been hurt by a vaccine. You rage about vaccine induced illnesses, but far more people win the lottery than are injured by vaccines.

On the other hand, the chance of having a serious illness after not vaccinating is very very real.

There is an enormous amount of arrogance in thinking that you are smarter than the entire medical establishment.

Have some humility and listen to the experts. That is what the Rebbe advised people to do all the time.

To #129-#131 and #133
November 2, 2018 3:35 pm

#129 and #133: you know why most of us don’t have children with vaccine injuries? Because they are extremely rare. Do you think that normal parents, who vaccinate, care less about their children than you do? No, we care for ours at least as much as you do, but we recognize that the risks of not vaccinating, and having our children contract dangerous and perhaps even fatal diseases, outweigh the statistically insignificant possibilities of injuries from said vaccines. Not unlike the way we make sure to have our kids strapped in with seatbelts, even though there have been cases of… Read more »

E. Goldberg
November 2, 2018 3:29 pm

I commend Oholei Torah for implementing and firmly enforcing a reasonable and important health policy in the best interest of the broader Ohelei Torah student body and Crown Heights community, and not succumbing to pressure from individual parents, regardless of their stature in the community or financial resources.

what is the problom?
November 2, 2018 3:29 pm

what is the issue in halacha for taking a medicine?

Ohalei Torah’s right
November 2, 2018 3:23 pm

Thumbs up Ohalei Torah for Standing your grounds and doing what’s right!!!

The facts – You decide!!!!
November 2, 2018 3:17 pm

My 9 year old caught whooping Cough from a non vaccinated child. He stayed home for 2 weeks on antibiotic and was in pain coughing for 3 months.
All my children, my husband and myself had to be on 2 weeks of antibiotics
You decide if it was fair to my family!!!

Thank you 129!
November 2, 2018 3:05 pm

And I want to add that all these people who are saying the shot are completely safe and “worth the risk” often feel completely different when it’s a child that they LOVE who’s life was stolen from them over a vaccine injury. When that child become s a completely different child over the course of the day it was administered like the McDowell triplets (hear their story on YouTube vaxxed TV) or a bit longer . Additionally none and I mean NONE of these people will be there for the family of the vaccine injured child. ALL the heartache and… Read more »

To #123
November 2, 2018 3:04 pm

Got it. So because the drug companies make money on vaccines, therefore that means their only purpose in making and promoting them is to line their pockets. The companies that make food also make profits therefrom. So it follows, by your “logic,” that the industry has been keeping us in the dark – you don’t really need food in order to live! – and that we should be looking at this with an open mind. Try that, and let us know in a week or two how you fare. The rest of us, who aren’t claiming bogus scientific and economic… Read more »

Courage
November 2, 2018 2:55 pm

Thank you laines for standing up. Public schools must accept religiuos exemption or it is discrimination. Private schools ( especially when taking gov. Funding) should need to as well. I personally have a booklet filled with sources in Jewish law talking about health and illness and issues with vaccines.

measles are NOT dangerous,
November 2, 2018 2:48 pm

since when measles became a dangerous disease??? All our parents and grand parents got measles and survived ! what a surprise !! but vaccines are good $$$$$$$. Follow the money and get educated ,….read books about the pros and cons about vaccines and decide what you want for your family.

Vaccine injury
November 2, 2018 2:31 pm

Most of you posting have not had a child with vaccine injury, you seem so compassionate and concerned about others getting the mesals, do you realize how many people are vaccine injured?! If your first child had long term illness directly correlated with vaccinations you would understand why a parent think twice before vaccinating the their family. You too would beg your family to look deeper, read the side effects and allow room for choices. Vaccine injuries and deaths are more common then death from measles. But until it’s your child you prob won’t change your mind, you don’t want… Read more »

WHat did they expect ?
November 2, 2018 2:29 pm

Did they think the community was going to side with them ? Good for OT !
I don’t know which religion they belong too but maybe they should read up on what the Rebbe said about vaccines.

A child just died from this disease!!!
November 2, 2018 2:27 pm
.to 96
November 2, 2018 2:25 pm

I hate to say this, but let’s put the discussion aside for a minute. Right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. How can you bring in the Rebbe’s opinion on this when you aree going against the Rebbe’s opinion on Ahavas Yisroel. Did the Rebbe approve of bashing other yidden even if what they are doing is wrong??
Why COL posted this, I don’t know, but what I do know is that as much as suing in court causes a chilul Hashem, this sinah towards another yid is causing a greater chillul Hashem

some basic points
November 2, 2018 2:25 pm

I’m not here to discuss the actual sides of the vaccine debate. Instead, I’d like to highlight two very important points that have to be raised before even entering into the entire discussion. Without coming to a consensus on these two points, we can’t even enter into any conversation; there’s no safa meshutefes, no common language. 1) How do we know anything? How do we decide what information is legitimate? How do we measure the validity of one piece of data over another? If a friend tells me about an anecdote they read in a book, is that as “admissible”… Read more »

Donate
November 2, 2018 2:22 pm

Where can we donate towards Oholei Torah’s legal costs?

To # 101...
November 2, 2018 2:13 pm

You are most certainly welcome to having your own opinions, however, the facts will remain unchanged regardless of how much you try to dismiss them as “conspiracy theories”. As someone who happens to be both a scientific professional who understands the intricacies of this topic on an intrinsic level, as well as someone who has studied the economics of the drug industry for longer than I wish to admit to, I can tell you without question that the powers that be are leading the masses by the nose to the tune of almost $50 billion annually just in the U.S.… Read more »

Bunch of ignorants!
November 2, 2018 2:09 pm

All of these comments are out of control and all will give a big Din Vecheshbon to just slander this family! A family full of Chessed non stop! Loving people that are only trying to protect their kids from this poison that the CDC are making on your back! Shame on you! The laine family should continue all the way and not be ashamed from these disgusting comments that don’t mean so much! The Vaccines debate is not the topic now(even that non of you guys now jack about the whole sugya how many Gedolim are against it and many… Read more »

To #103
November 2, 2018 1:57 pm

I would feel bad if the family were only being attacked for not vaccinating but since they took it to court this becomes nasty business…

The solution¡!!!!!!!!!
November 2, 2018 1:55 pm

Doctor Paul Thomas( check yourself!!!) has e Very balanced opinion about vaccines, he says that u should them but in a safe schedule, meaning to give space between the shots.
He started that because many kids in his practice were developing autism.
AS SOON AS HE STARTED THE NEW SCHEDULE, the autism cases dramatically DECREASED!!!
SINCE THE REBBE RESPONDED ABOUT vaccines many new vaccines have been introduced in the medical world WITH WAY MORE TOXINS, CHECK yourself!!
Don’t go to extremes!!! Vaccine ur kids with DOCTOR PAUL’S VACCINE SCHEDULE and protect them from autism!!!

a comment reader
November 2, 2018 1:44 pm

why does everyone fell the need to make comparisons to the nazis? its quite disgusting.

IRONY
November 2, 2018 1:41 pm

Everything in life is a benefit versus risk balance. Parenting is a serious responsibility and no one takes it lightly. Every parent can decide what they feel is best for their child. But when your decision puts others in the community at a risk with no benefit, then it is no longer solely your decision to make. Most parents dont enjoy vaccinating their kids and dont do it light heartedly. We do so understanding that our doctors and Rabbonim know more than us, and we do so once we are assured of its importance. Countless posts have explained the concept… Read more »

Poor kids
November 2, 2018 1:33 pm

I feel bad for the boy this is all about. Would the parents actually send him to the school if they do win the court case? This doesn’t sound like a great recipe for social success

Crossed a line
November 2, 2018 1:31 pm

A parent has a right to disagree with a school. Taking a school to court is a whole new level. The crosses a line on all levels and is not ok

why is this being posted?
November 2, 2018 1:24 pm

i personally dont think this should be publically posted. its the family’s and schools buisness. no one elses

Thank you Oheli Torah
November 2, 2018 1:22 pm

to #83, “Unvaccinated kids pose no danger to vaccinated kids”, but actually THEY DO. Check the medicine before claiming things.

Vaccinate
November 2, 2018 12:48 pm

I won’t send my kids to a school that allows unvaccinated kids! It’s totally unsafe.

Taking oholeitorah to court doesn’t get my sympathy
November 2, 2018 12:45 pm

People who don’t vaccinate are not selfish since they truly beleive vaccinating is bad. In this case though I do not think this family deserves sympathy because they are suing oholeitorah in secular court and that says a lot about people when they sue or get others in trouble with the law. This just takes it to a whole other level.

To #97
November 2, 2018 12:45 pm

Where did you ever get the notion that keeping kosher has to do with what ends up in your bloodstream? The prohibitions are on eating them, not on injecting them. The halachah is quite clear that most forbidden items – and yes, that includes gelatin, pig and monkey byproducts, etc. – may be used for medicinal purposes when they’re not being “enjoyed in their usual way” (see Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh De’ah 155:3).

From this chabad.org article: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2870103/jewish/What-Does-Jewish-Law-Say-About-Vaccination.htm
November 2, 2018 12:43 pm

“In the spring of 1956 the Rebbe wrote: . . In reply to your letter in which you ask my opinion about the injections that are commonly given to young children: It is with regard to matters such as these that the axiom “Do not set yourself apart from the community” applies. You should act according to that which is done by [the parents of] the majority of children who are in your children’s classes . . .11 Even as the polio vaccine effectively eliminated the dreaded disease, there were instances where faulty shots actually brought about illness. In a… Read more »

Truth
November 2, 2018 12:39 pm

Is the world ready to hear the truth? That we are the only responsible for the sickest generation of children in the history of the world? It would hurt so bad that parents prefer to stay blind…

Listen here #48
November 2, 2018 12:28 pm

Wow. Ok, so all the people who die of cancer every day, we should stop trying to find a cure for? Be thankful to the doctors who were able to find a way to prevent measles and other diseases that kill off people.

Disgusting. Keep your non-vax self away from the rest of us who value life and accept G-d’s help when He sends it.

thank you aholei torah
November 2, 2018 12:24 pm

thank you aholei torah for keeping our children safe.

Montrealer
November 2, 2018 12:23 pm

if they say b/c of religious reasons that is so blatantly not true they could never win in court , there are many with their same religion who are equally pro-vaccine , they must tell the truth as to why they don’t want to vaccinate their kids

To 83
November 2, 2018 12:21 pm

So you support suing the school since they have a different stance? Why don’t you Address that.

#83
November 2, 2018 12:14 pm

#83, please do some research. Not all children CAN be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. By not vaccinating their completely healthy child, they are putting those children who can’t get vaccinated at risk.

#83 u r right. This is a mob.
November 2, 2018 12:10 pm

Too much attacking going on. The lains are not idiots and naive and neither are you. There are very strong validating points on both sides with plenty of highly qualified Doctors to back them up. Please refrain from bashing either side when there is NO malicious intent involved. We ALL care about our health and our children’s health.

Religious Beliefs?!
November 2, 2018 12:09 pm

A fundamental religious belief of ours: Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat 26:1 “שלא לדון בדיני עכו”ם ובו ד סעיפים:אסור לדון בפני דייני עכו”ם ובערכאות שלהם (פי’ מושב קבוע לשרים לדון בו) אפי’ בדין שדנים בדיני ישראל ואפי’ נתרצו ב’ בעלי דינים לדון בפניהם אסור וכל הבא לידון בפניהם הרי זה רשע וכאלו חירף וגידף והרים יד בתורת מרע”ה: הגה ויש ביד ב”ד לנדותו ולהחרימו עד שיסלק יד עכו”ם מעל חבירו (מהרי”ק שורש קנ”ד) וכן מחרימין המחזיק ביד ההולך לפני עכו”ם (ריב”ש סי’ ק”ב) ואפי’ אינו דן לפני עכו”ם רק שכופהו ע”י עכו”ם שיעמוד עמו לדין ישראל ראוי למתחו על העמוד (מרדכי… Read more »

To #48, #59, #60, #65, #71, #75, #83
November 2, 2018 12:03 pm

#48: read what #82 wrote, and then consider: (a) most of your examples don’t exist outside of the Third World, and indeed people who travel to those places do get vaccinations or other preventatives for them. (b) About your specific example of leprosy: there is in fact a vaccine for it, it’s just not effective enough; and there is a low risk of transmission, since it requires close contact (as compared to other diseases that are spread by droplets in the air. As in any other area of life, you do what you can to protect against the more likely… Read more »

Sholom Laine is a tremendous baal tzedaka
November 2, 2018 12:01 pm

Things that people know about and things that nobody knows about.

That said, I hope he realizes what picking a fight with Oholei Torah means.

To those speaking about destroying a family, puh-lease. Someone is suing our children’s school. The Rebbe’s school. Because they listen to 90% of the medical field’s recommendation. And we’re talking about it.
Don’t stand in front of a target in a shooting range and yell at everyone to stop shooting at you. You’re bringing it on yourself.

#56 Important to note
November 2, 2018 11:52 am

You write as a news flash that if your child is vaccinated they will not catch any diseases from non-vaccinated children. This is a common argument brought up by non-vaxxers. The problem is that there are children who haven’t been able to be vaccinated for various reasons. Some have had allergic reactions to early vaccinations, some had only one and don’t get the second one until they are four years old. Worse still, there are people with compromised or weak immune systems (cancer patients r”l, or many others). For thenm, vaccinations won’t necessarily help. And it would be 1000% reckless… Read more »

the rebbe opinion
November 2, 2018 11:46 am

במענה על מכתבו מעש”ק בו שואל אודות הזריקות איינשפריצונגען שעושים עתה לילדים קטנים איך ינהג בזה הנה בכגון דא נאמר אל תפרוש מן הצבור וינהג כמו שעושים רוב הכתה בבית הספר בה לומדים ילידיהם שיחיו ויעזרם השי”ת לגדל את כל ילידיהם שיחיו לתורה ולחופה ולמעשים טובים מתוך הרחבה מאשר הנני קבלת מכתבו מי”א שבט והקודמו וממהר הנני לענות עליו שלא בתור אפילו של מכתבים התכופים מפני ענין הזריקות לחיסון אף שלפלא שאלתו בזה שהרי כמה מאה”ק כבר שאלוני ועניתי להם בחיוב כיון שכאן עושים זה רובם ככולם ובהצלחה ומובן שבאם ישנם זריקות מתוצרת בתי סממני רפואה שונים צריך להשתמש בזו… Read more »

Look at the NON-KOSHER INGREDIENTS in vaccines
November 2, 2018 11:43 am

Just throwing this out there.. there are a host of non-kosher ingredients inside vaccines that your are INJECTING straight into your kids bloodstream… GELATIN, PIG DNA, Monkey DNA, OTHER HUMANS dna, apart from the nerve-altering metals. Why keep kosher at all then? Why even look at kosher symbols on food packaging- when you can bypass it all and go direct into the blood! Read the vaccine inserts people.

the rebbe opinion
November 2, 2018 11:42 am

במענה על מכתבו מעש”ק בו שואל אודות הזריקות איינשפריצונגען שעושים עתה לילדים קטנים איך ינהג בזה הנה בכגון דא נאמר אל תפרוש מן הצבור וינהג כמו שעושים רוב הכתה בבית הספר בה לומדים ילידיהם שיחיו ויעזרם השי”ת לגדל את כל ילידיהם שיחיו לתורה ולחופה ולמעשים טובים מתוך הרחבה מאשר הנני קבלת מכתבו מי”א שבט והקודמו וממהר הנני לענות עליו שלא בתור אפילו של מכתבים התכופים מפני ענין הזריקות לחיסון אף שלפלא שאלתו בזה שהרי כמה מאה”ק כבר שאלוני ועניתי להם בחיוב כיון שכאן עושים זה רובם ככולם ובהצלחה ומובן שבאם ישנם זריקות מתוצרת בתי סממני רפואה שונים צריך להשתמש בזו… Read more »

Common sense
November 2, 2018 11:36 am

The Laine’s are completely right to fight and protect their child. There are a lot of studies linking vaccines to autism and many other physical, physiological, and emotional problems. These studies were not refuted or debunked. It’s just that the pharmaceutical companies who market these vaccines try and discredit them. People need to read up on it and use some common sense! Just because your doctor says their safe, doesn’t mean they are! He or she is just Parroting whatever he or she was taught in medical school etc. where the curriculum is written by pharmaceutical companies!

Non Crown Heightser
November 2, 2018 11:36 am

If there children are not vaccinated we should look elsewhere for shidduchim.

# 83
November 2, 2018 11:26 am

Its the other way around.

A Family Sued an Institution. The fact that it was made public is something the family should have thought about before and its position they knowingly put themselves in.

To 83 #
November 2, 2018 11:24 am

Can you explain what you mean about destroying a family, when they decided to go to court because they did not like the policy of a private institution?

To #43
November 2, 2018 11:18 am

Nazi Germany? Seriously?! I find your analogy seriously flawed, so flawed that you would have to use a scare tactic of throwing in Nazi Germany to gain support for your opinion. Lets move on from Nazi Germany to the Democracy of the USA. The School has a right to make such requirements, its called a policy, not a holocaust. (Most likely (not verified) the school told the family that if they can provide a Dr’s note then they would be exempt, but obviously it is apparent that no Dr would provide such a note.) The family also has a right… Read more »

#48
November 2, 2018 11:17 am

So brilliant – never thought of it this way and you’re right.

Schools that have federal funding are not legally "private"
November 2, 2018 11:17 am

A “private” school that accepts federal funding for example the lunch program has to comply with their state mandates which allow vaccine exceptions in the form of medical or religious in New York. OT doesn’t fit the definition legally of being a “private” school . That is why ALL of our local daycare centers that accept vouchers for tuition along with other government funding DO accept the religious waiver because by LAW they have to. How many of you send your children in vouchers to daycare centers here with children who have the religious waiver not to vaccinate yet you… Read more »

Why is this in court?
November 2, 2018 11:16 am

OT is a private institution, if you don’t like their policies, then find yourself another school. Even if you’re right that all the vaccination science is bunk and the near elimination of many diseases over the past century are due to homeopathic remedies or astrology, if the school wants to impose a condition, why don’t they have that right? You have a right over your kids to do what you want to them, other parents who created the school have the right to create conditions upon which children who want to attend school with their children must follow. Why is… Read more »

Religious Exemptions
November 2, 2018 11:14 am

Anti-Vaxers are certainly a religion onto their own. They’ve already dropped halacha as a requirement R’L (by not following halachah to vaccinate their children and by taking OT to court) They already have their own Doctors who spend TONS of time web-surfing. These professionals have already uncovered so many of the dangers including autism and other horrible maladies that can inflict your children if you listen to your outdated doctors and rabonim and inject this horrible stuff into your kid. They are one stop past the Elokistin on the crazy train. Make sure to take the “off the reservation” route.… Read more »

TO 71
November 2, 2018 11:09 am

Money cannot always buy one a free pass.

Stop Bashing CH, when the one you are protecting is suing the Rebbes establishment.

Robin Hood gave charity too
November 2, 2018 11:07 am

Just because someone has some money and gives Tzdakah doesn’t give them a right to do what they want and try to be different than everyone else.
Rules are for everyone both rich and poor

All stupid ppl you can get measles even if u r vaccinated . No difference at all .
November 2, 2018 11:04 am

Whatever

I'm scared to be in CH!
November 2, 2018 11:02 am

Not for fear of getting the measles, but from seeing the way the CH community will DESTROY a family putting ZERO RISK ON VACCINATED CHILDREN!!! If your kids are vaccinated, they won’t get measles. And if they do, they would have gotten it at a restaurant or on a subway, and it’s a mild case if you’ve been vaccinated. Unvaccinated kids pose no danger to vaccinated kids – otherwise, why get vaccinated at all? As a parent of children who got pertussis (whooping cough) and I am vaccinated – I DID NOT GET IT OF COURSE! My children coughed for… Read more »

number 48
November 2, 2018 11:02 am

youre an idiot. Vaccines are developed for the more dangerous illnesses. I dont tink anyone died from cytomagelavirus, my son had it. sounds fancy and dangerous, its not . neither are most of the others on your list. and you can bet that if they were abe to develop a vaccine against AIDS or cancer, everyone would be taking that as well… beside you obviously because well a deadly disease is safer than the non existent mercury in vaccinations.

religious beliefs
November 2, 2018 11:00 am

The whole thing is ludicrous and will be shut down by competent judge. The logic is simple. If this PRIVATE religious institution is not in line with your religious beliefs then don’t send your child to said institution.

AND NOW FOR THE TRUTH
November 2, 2018 10:54 am

Zero deaths from the thousands of measles cases in Israel, NY, CA. Zero pregnant women losing their babies. THIS IS SUCH A JOKE. To restate: The 18 month old child who passed had a host of ongoing medical and health related issues. The child was from a family, which according to media reports, was part of the radical “Shaliyat” (“Taliban women”) sect, which refrain from contact with the authorities and general interactions with the health services. The family was overtly neglectful of basic child safety and overall child health, (the child had never been registered with the Misrad Ha’pnim, and… Read more »

66# to
November 2, 2018 10:53 am

The laines are good people.

But I don’t know how you can complain that they are being destroyed when they are the ones who decided to go to court!?

yankel
November 2, 2018 10:51 am

ARE YOU ALL CRAZY MY GRANDSON ALMOST DIED FROM NOT TAKING HIS SHOTS SOMEONE TALKED MY DAUGHTER OUT DOING THE RIGHT THING GET YOUR SHOTS SAVE YOUR CHILDREN.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To 71
November 2, 2018 10:35 am

Sorry you could do many good things but suing ohelei Torah due to its policy is unacceptable, really low. She has a right to do as she wishes with her kids, go find a School that supports that.

To #26
November 2, 2018 10:31 am

The Laine’s filed a lawsuit, placing the controversy in Public Domain. This is not Lashon Hara.

Puppets and peasants...
November 2, 2018 10:29 am

The level of ignorance in this comment thread is astounding! The masses have been cowed and scared into believing whatever it is that the “puppets” from the medical establishment (the vast majority of today’s medical professionals) “regurgitate” to their patients – at the direction and behest of their corporate overlords. Any half-witted individual, capable of the most rudimentary research into the matter, can unquestionably see that this is the case. Someone should post a link to the Porter Bridges case proceedings from the Federal Vaccine Injury Court as a start. Yet, even with all of this evidence, which has been… Read more »

If you don't listen to the Rebbe, find another school
November 2, 2018 10:24 am

The Rebbe was very clear that you should listen to the medical community, and the medical community overwhelmingly support vaccination.

If you don’t want to listen to the Rebbe, your kids don’t belong in Oholei Torah.

The other side of the coin
November 2, 2018 10:23 am

Vaccine injury is real! That is why the government set up a vaccine injury compensation program. Brain encephalitis is amoung one of the injuries that can be compensated for . That is exactly the injury that causes autism and chronic seizures which children have died from. This risk amoung many many others is written right on the pharmaceutical insert! There are tens of if not hundreds of families worldwide who’s lives have changed DRASTICALLY after giving their child or themselves a vaccine. A MD who practice is mostly Amish population said on record that in 25 years he has only… Read more »

Thank you Oholei Torah
November 2, 2018 10:22 am

For protecting my kids and the rest of the community.

as a close freind of this couple
November 2, 2018 10:22 am

#1 How dare you tell them to move out of this community – they pick up the tuition that you couldn’t afford for your child in any school you may have sent kids to. This man is writing checks for tzedaka in our mosdos that not one man with money in this neighborhood has written in 60 years. #2 regarding vaccines – he chooses not to amongst 1000’s who do – that’s his choice and your kid (who you vaccinate) isn’t at risk of getting it. So you be super vigilant and vaccinate and that will give him the liberty… Read more »

Yahuda
November 2, 2018 10:19 am

1) There are quite a few letters from the Rebbe about the importance of being vaccinated.
2) what religious belief??????
Ushmartem al nafshoisachem!!!!
Why does Sholom Laine chain smoke!!!!!
3) If this ONE child is acxepted, your puting the lives of the other 1999 studrnts at risk.
4) the Rebbe always speak to yeddidim U’mayvinim.
Speak to The Rebbe’s doctor or Dr. Rosen, Gottesman…….

CA law
November 2, 2018 10:11 am

So grareful that in CA it is the law that a kid can not enter school without their vaccinations. It should be implemented in the other states, and you won’t be able to have parents suing the school.

to #20
November 2, 2018 10:04 am

Why do you support the Laine’s in this law suit?

aaron
November 2, 2018 10:03 am

as someone whom works in the food industry for over 20 years i can say
the toxic fertilizers herbicides sprays and manipulation of our foods (GMO) is more of a health risk than vaccines . and yet you probably dont purchase organic food.
and yet organic foods have its issues as well, i.e. harmful bacteria from not pasteurization insect germs from non pesticides. its a catch 22. OY!

Sad, but there is a solution
November 2, 2018 10:02 am

If you are so strong in your antivax ‘ researched opinions’ Start your own Anti Vax schools. This way your child, children are all on the same page for better and for worse.
No arguing no fighting. But it will be interesting I hope Im wrong to see the consequences. Not sure if its worth the ‘experiment’

Everyone loves to SCAPEGOAT
November 2, 2018 10:02 am

Jews have historically been scapegoated – destroyed for not “converting” or working on Shabbos, or looking different, or… It’s cathartic to scapegoat. You get to focus on other people and how disgusting and horrible they are. It’s intoxicating. Especially in public forums like this. Hundreds of stressed, struggling, average people get to come together and feel STRONG AND SUPERIOR because they can freely destroy the Laine family. Newsflash: If your kids are fully vaccinated, they’re ok. Even if they get something, it’s a mild form in 99% of the cases. Look at the numbers. Second newsflash: Deaths from these illnesses… Read more »

To #43
November 2, 2018 10:01 am

show your support by removing your kids form our schools. Start a special school for all unvaccinated kids. SPare the rest of us

Yukel
November 2, 2018 10:00 am

If only there was a stupidity vaccine for these parents

chutzpah
November 2, 2018 9:59 am

Selfish and stupid. Kudo to OT for sticking to their principles! I hope this case gets thrown out of court. My kids are in OT and i DO NOT WANT UNVACCINATED KIDS IN THEIR CLASS. The only unvaccinated kids in our community should be the ones who for MEDICAL REASONS are not able to . It is selfish to no vaccinate healthy children .

This is not judgemental it’s practical
November 2, 2018 9:59 am

Supporters of the Laine family should understand we are not looking to take away their (or your) rights as a parent , at the same time we are entitled to protect our rights and not have children who are not vaccinated playing or sitting next to ours every day. It seems there are quite a few families that do not vaccinate and some of their children most probably sit next to my children and grandchildren in school- how about opening a small school for children whose parents don’t believe in vaccinations ? This way both sides are protected .

Hundreds hurt emotionally from vaccines
November 2, 2018 9:59 am

Fact is that you can compile a list of hundreds of children (according to their parents) in Crown Heigths who were hurt, physically and mostly emotionally from vaccines, from the large size of each dose, from the big number of doses and from them being given at too young of an age. Dozens of parents have seen a clearly bad change for the long term in the child due to vaccinations. There are tens of millions of dollars coming into the Crown Heights community every year (through the City DOE, insurance companies, State OPWDD) to take care of the hundreds… Read more »

Reminder to all hot headed commenters
November 2, 2018 9:49 am

Non vaccinated children are NOT WALKING GERM FACTORIES

I don’t think the laines would have tried to bring their son to school if he has the measles ?$&#(@/)@??#!?$

Proud OT parent
November 2, 2018 9:48 am

I am so proud of OT for not backing down. I hope that OT wins! We need to stop missinformation!

The law
November 2, 2018 9:47 am

Says a private school may be stricter than the state law but not less. Therefore OT has every right to not allow an unvaccinated child in school. I wish every school would.follow their lead. Such chutzpah. Home school and stay in the house

Knowledgeable professional
November 2, 2018 9:46 am

It is both astounding as well as sickening (no pun intended…), to see the levels of “selective” journalism and reporting displayed in this article. The incredible ignorance and fear mongering which is being cultivated by those who either don’t know any better, or more likely, have a very specific agenda, are frankly astonishing. As per the reports from the Israel, the 18 month old child who passed, had a host of ongoing medical and health related issues. The child was from a family, which according to media reports, was part of the radical “Shaliyat” (“Taliban women”) sect, which refrain from… Read more »

Best Solution is...
November 2, 2018 9:44 am

Go protest outside their house until they drop the lawsuit.
They are picking a fight with most parents in CH… not only Oholei Torah.
# 20 and 43 must be related to the Laine family.

Such hypocrisy
November 2, 2018 9:44 am

If they’re so religious even more so than oholeitorah than why are they going to secular court not going to beis din ?

What about spiritual risk??
November 2, 2018 9:38 am

I don’t want my kids going to school with kids that are allowed to watch TV and freely surf the internet. Kick them all out. I don’t want them putting my kids at risk.

Chamirah Sakanta Meisurah!
November 2, 2018 9:37 am

The Laine parents are entitled to their warped beliefs. However, they don’t have the right to endanger other children!

Somebody in the know please explain
November 2, 2018 9:36 am

If almost all kids are in fact vaccinated, what risk is this child posing to anyone’s health?

What the rebbe says
November 2, 2018 9:35 am

The rebbe says to vaccinate, but many choose to omit one detail, if the ingredients are proven safe.

Why are you all worried
November 2, 2018 9:31 am

If you think that vaccinating prevents illness why are you so worried. You had the vaccine?!

Why do we fear?
November 2, 2018 9:31 am

We are NOT vaccinated against:‬ ‪Acinetobacter‬ ‪African sleeping sickness (African trypanosomiasis) Trypanosoma brucei‬ ‪AIDS‬ ‪Amebiasis‬ ‪Angiostrongyliasis Angiostrongylus‬ ‪Anisakiasis Anisakis‬ ‪Arcanobacterium haemolyticum infection‬ ‪Argentine hemorrhagic fever Junin virus‬ ‪Ascariasis‬ ‪Aspergillosis‬ ‪Astrovirus infection‬ ‪Babesiosis‬ ‪Bacillus cereus infection‬ ‪Bacterial pneumonia (multiple bacteria)‬ ‪Bacterial vaginosis‬ ‪Bacteroides infection‬ ‪Balantidiasis‬ ‪Bartonellosis‬ ‪Baylisascaris infection Baylisascaris species‬ ‪BK virus infection BK virus‬ ‪Black piedra‬ ‪Blastocystosis‬ ‪Blastomycosis‬ ‪Bolivian hemorrhagic fever Machupo virus‬ ‪Botulism‬ ‪Brazilian hemorrhagic fever‬ ‪Brucellosis‬ ‪Bubonic plague‬ ‪Burkholderia infection‬ ‪Calicivirus infection (Norovirus and Sapovirus)‬ ‪Campylobacteriosis‬ ‪Candidiasis (Moniliasis; Thrush) usually Candida albicans and other Candida species‬ ‪Capillariasis Intestinal disease by Capillaria philippinensis, hepatic disease by Capillaria hepatica and… Read more »

You think you’re all better than others?! Wow
November 2, 2018 9:24 am

Wow people are commenting without doing any research whatsoever. Amazing how religious you all seem to be. If you think you’re all religious why don’t you take time and try and see things from another view point. Huh?!

This is worse than your think
November 2, 2018 9:22 am

This child will have no friends. Bad parents

Sad situation
November 2, 2018 9:21 am

As a nurse who’s been one for decades and had both types of measles, chicken pox, mumps and whooping cough as a young child l can assure you that I wouldn’t want even my “worst enemies “to have to go through that . I can remember Doctor Spungeon (OBM) stopping by the house with the public health nurse to give my mother quarrentine notices to post at the doors and them talking about how they hope that someday, somehow there’ll be an end to this. I can remember the fear every fall when polio season came around and having not… Read more »

They should not be allowed into Oholei Torah
November 2, 2018 9:19 am

Parents may have the right to do as they please. However they do not have a right to put other people or kids in danger if they chose not to vaccinate. I agree with the school’s policy. Children must be in a safe and healthy environment.

Support for the Laine Family
November 2, 2018 9:17 am

For those informed parents who would like to show support for the families, how can we do so? It is absurd to let any school try to take our religious and medical freedoms away. This isn’t nazi Germany where we have to let our brothers and sisters be injected or have other medical procedures performed against their will. We must stand up for our human rights now before it is too late, no matter which side you are on.

Religious Beliefs????
November 2, 2018 9:15 am

What about insuring that others are not infected due to an erroneous belief that vaccinations can cause adverse effects?
I am a Senior Citizen STILL suffering the after-effects of being infected with Whooping Cough THREE YEARS after being stricken DESPITE being RESPONSIBLY up-to-date with immunizations.

One must recognize that the decisions that one makes with respect to this inyan can have disastrous effects on “Innocent Victims,” such as yours truly!

Non Crown Heightser
November 2, 2018 9:15 am

Where we have the axiom chassidim ein mishpochoh, and where virtually all families among us do vaccinate, it seems rather than causing Oholei Torah legal fees and potential risk to the talmidim, that some people from the community or some respected individuals can influence them otherwise.

Unbelievable
November 2, 2018 9:12 am

It’s parents like this so should not be a part of our community!
The selfishness of people nowadays particularly when it comes from our quote-unquote community is utterly despised

OT
November 2, 2018 9:10 am

Thank you OT for keeping our children safe! And Lain’s I respect your opinion but pls do research and understand how dreadful this can be not only to your child but others as well!

Crazy parents
November 2, 2018 9:08 am

I’m usually not with the school for different reasons, this time I’m with them 100%

Oh please
November 2, 2018 9:06 am

Due to their “religious” beliefs? Where in the Torah does it say not only that it’s OKAY to endanger your own child and others by not vaccinating, but that one SHOULD? Massive chillul Hashem. This has nothing to do with their religious beliefs.

Shocking
November 2, 2018 9:05 am

A yid should sue another yid?
A chassid should take the Rebbe’s moisad to court?
(And exactly what part of their religion exempts them from vaccinating?) utterly ridiculous.
If you don’t like the school’s policy, go somewhere else.

Say word?
November 2, 2018 9:05 am

Religious beliefs make you not vaccine your kid?

Pikuach nefesh
November 2, 2018 9:04 am

The Torah gives permission to the doctor to heal, and therefore halachikly you can take the word of a doctor who declares one not well enough to eat on Yom Kippur (together with consulting with a rov). If so, to decide based on unfounded conspiracy theories and distorted facts and generalizations to not vaccinate is irresponsible at best and can cause great harm to yourself and others r”l at worst. If you decide you know better then the “foolish sheeple” go live on your own planet where you won’t affect others by your dangerous decisions. If you’re a chossid at… Read more »

Laines want to risk the health of their child , but why OURS ?
November 2, 2018 9:00 am

If they do not want to vaccinate their kids its their choice ,
but then keep them all inside the house.
Why would you want to bring
your not vaccinated kids to school and make all the kids around him sick ?!?!?

WHAT RELIGOUS BELIEFS
November 2, 2018 8:59 am

the rebbe excplicetly was pro vaccanies

Is it 1200 or 882 cases? Maybe try fact checking?
November 2, 2018 8:56 am

Israel is grappling with one of its worst measles outbreak in decades, with over 1,200 cases reported since the beginning of 2018.

According to Haaretz newspaper there have been 882 cases of measles in Israel in the past year,

Disgusting!
November 2, 2018 8:56 am

Your religious beliefs?!? Which religion? Definitely NOT orthodox Judaism. And if that’s not your religion, your kids doesn’t belong in OT!

Bhh
November 2, 2018 8:50 am

Thank you ot for keeping the school safe..the whole school shouldnt have to be at risk.

This is ridiculous
November 2, 2018 8:47 am

Show me where in the Torah it says that you shouldn’t vaccinate your kids. Show where the Rebbe once said that getting vaccines is not a good idea. I’ve only seen a letter where he was pro vaccine. To site religious beliefs as a reason to not vaccinate your kid is not only wrong, it’s a chilul HaShem. Vaccines are around for a reason, primarily Because the diseases they prevent are so awful and contagious. Any person who doesn’t vaccinate their kids is selfishy putting other children at risk just so that they can feel better about themselves thinking that… Read more »

Suing due to religious belief
November 2, 2018 8:42 am

How is it a religious belief not to vaccinate one’s child?

really?
November 2, 2018 8:38 am

While this is an important discussion to be had, and people need to recognize the dangers of not vaccinating their children (the danger it presents to their own children and the huge danger it presents to children who are immuno-compromized and for whatever reason can not be vaccinated) I think posting this story here is more lashon hara and a chance to ‘stir the pot’ than anything else. We saw the story last night and checked to see if it was posted here. We were relieved to see that it wasn’t…alas that has changed.

So wrong
November 2, 2018 8:37 am

What selfish people. Not only are they putting their own children, other children and adults at risk, now they’r also forcing the school to fund a legal battle. Ridiculous.

No vaccines, no entrance
November 2, 2018 8:35 am

I do not want my kids to go to school with children that have not been vaccinated.

Religious exemption?
November 2, 2018 8:35 am

Under what rav?

Illogical
November 2, 2018 8:30 am

They’re trying to get their child into a religious school while claiming a religious exemption from one of the school’s requirements? Which religion do these parents practice that teaches them not to vaccinate their children?

Another Parent
November 2, 2018 8:25 am

How about another parent that does not want her child to go to school with other children who are not vaccinated? Is there a law I can look into to insure my child’s safety?

Great job!
November 2, 2018 8:15 am

Keep up the fight!! The Laines are doing this community a HUGE chesed!

Disbelief
November 2, 2018 8:15 am

Mamash Chutzpa to be so selfish ,and put entire school at risk .

Chutzpah
November 2, 2018 8:12 am

Measles breakout made possible by…the print house!

is the law on their side or not?
November 2, 2018 8:10 am

I’m not getting into the argument if it should or shouldn’t not be done… and the article seems a bit slanted.. however..

The question is whether the school must admit a child who is not vaccinated.

OT is the only school in CH with that rule and it just started this year.

https://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements/newyork.aspx

Settle the case
November 2, 2018 8:06 am

It’s easy for OT just tell the parents they can you’ll accept the child but only for general studies,!

Yossi.
November 2, 2018 8:04 am

The headline is a bit off.
This article about measles outbreak & vaccinations in general
NOT about Sholom Laine & OT……

Kol Hakovod!
November 2, 2018 8:03 am

👍to OT and Collive for underscoring the importance of this issue…. mamush Pikuach Nefesh!

Here we go again ...
November 2, 2018 8:02 am

Those who are anti-vaccination will continue their old and tired arguments. The “autism” arguments have been discredited and its scientific validity disproved.

Yet, there are people who continue to go back the the “autism” line of fighting. Oh, that and big business … that’s always a good one.

I wonder when it will happen that a child who did not get vaccinated and r”l contracted one of these diseases will sue their parents.

In the meantime, measles – and who knows what other medical problems – will continue to rise unchecked.

How sad.

Religious belief???
November 2, 2018 8:00 am

Why do so many twist their own strange ideas into religion? “Oh here’s a strange set of ideas, I actually have a few to add” absaloutly moronic a religion is a system of worship with an objective standard, otherwise anyone and everyone can arm their horrible ideas with “religious freedom”

What religious reasons?
November 2, 2018 7:57 am

Please tell me what religious reasons apply to them and not to the rest of us?

Wow
November 2, 2018 7:53 am

People can be so selfish! If u don’t vaccinate your children they are at risk for serious diseases and spreading different forms of them! I hope the schools wins! Thank I for protecting our children!

It’s like...
November 2, 2018 7:49 am

Making a hole under your own seat in a boat, filled with other people. (R”L an 18-month old baby passed away yesterday in Eretz Yisroel from the measles)

Unbelievable
November 2, 2018 7:47 am

People need to do some homework. The Herd Immunity Imperative Vaccines don’t just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren’t immunized benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won’t have enough eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out entirely. This phenomenon is called “herd immunity” or “community immunity,” and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual. This is critical because there will always be a percentage of the… Read more »

One may be right according to the law but ....
November 2, 2018 7:45 am

Not such a smart idea to take Oholei Torah to court in the midst of a measles outbreak in Brooklyn specifically in Jewish schools….

Halacha
November 2, 2018 7:38 am

Who gave them a heter arkos?

seriously
November 2, 2018 7:31 am

1 for a yid to sue shame on them.
2 you want to sue? sue the city or state for the laws
3 maybe other parents don’t want unvaccinated children putting theirs at risk.
4 home school your child if you don’t want to vaccinate that is a viable option for you (as you do have a right not to vaccinate)
5 don’t impose your decisions on other people

Why?
November 2, 2018 7:28 am

Big chillul hashem. This is so sad. What happened to going to beis din?

Lol
November 2, 2018 7:27 am

I guess they have different religious beliefs then oholei torah…maybe find a school with the same?

Caring for others
November 2, 2018 7:25 am

It seems quite selfish to disregard the concerns of hundreds of others in order to pursue one’s personal agenda that can be detrimental to others.

Alternative option
November 2, 2018 7:25 am

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