Jul 28, 2009
Orlofsky: My Sincere Regret

Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky has sent to COLlive the following statement (via The Chofetz Chaim Foundation): "I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again."

By COLlive reporter

A public outrage over degrading statements about Chasidism and the Rebbe by a Jerusalem lecturer has led to an apology.

In a statement to COLlive, Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky wrote: "I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again."

Orlofsky, who teaches in an Ohr Somayach Yeshiva, was scheduled to speak at an international Tisha B'Av event organized by New York-based The Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation.

The initial article published on COLlive Wednesday morning caused an uproar. Over 160 comments were sent in (some not posted for being too sharp) and readers called on each other to call the Foundation and protest.

R' Michael Rothschild, Director of the Foundation, told COLlive Wednesday afternoon: "We've been getting a new email every two minutes and received endless calls."

In his statement addressed to "Chabad Communities Worldwide," Rothschild asked "all those who are so upset, to read and accept the mechila requested from Rabbi Orlofsky. He is deeply regretful for what happened."

Contacted by COLlive, several Shluchim and Gabboim of Shuls did not say whether they will retract the boycott of the event.

Update 2:33 pm EST:
Shluchim decided to call off the boycott of the Tisha B'av event. "We will be broadcasting the event, however we will not be showing Rabbi Orlofsky's speech," a Shliach told COLlive.

To Chabad Communities Worldwide,

Attached below is an important statement issued by one of the speakers of this years Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation Tisha Bav event, Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky.

On behalf of the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation I would like to add our expression of deep regret over the pain that was caused by this matter.
Our entire organization was created for Shalom, Shmiras Haloshon and Achdus and this incident is extremely troublesome to us.

It is the farthest thing from our minds to distance ourselves from this wonderful community in Klal Yisroel.

On this Erev Tisha Bav , I ask all those who are so upset, to read and accept the mechila requested from Rabbi Orlofsky. He is deeply regretful for what happened.

In the spirit of achdus and on Erev Tisha Bav, I ask from everyone who was hurt to accept his request for mechila and put this very unfortunate incident behind us.

With the hope that Achdus reigns among Klal Yisroel.
I remain,
Michael Rothschild
Director

* * * * * *

To Chabad Communities Worldwide,

I would like to express my sincere regret for the pain my words have caused. I am horrified that on Erev Tisha Bav, or for that matter any day, they should be the cause of strife in Klal Yisroel.

The words I said, were said - once, in response to a question of a talmid, to a class of 8 people.

I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again.

I am anguished that my words have caused agmos nefesh to so many wonderful people and an entire Kehila, and I ask mechila from anyone who was pained by my words.

With Sincere Regret,
Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky


Most Read Most Comments




Opinions and Comments
1
convert to chabad and see the light.
Next time think b4 u open ur mouth. (im not saying a am not offended or i accept ur apology)
(7/29/2009 6:39:36 AM)
2
THIS IS WHAT HE REALLY SAID
Did you listen to the tape?
He quotes the Brisker Rav saying "This meshigine thinks he's Moshiach". , and claims that it is now quoted by Lubavitchers to prove the Brisker Rav thought Rebbe was Moshiach.
(Btw R Orlofsky made a mistake- the Rebbe was not in the Sorbonne w/ R' Hutner and R' Soloveitchik.)
The next thing he says about the Rebbe is his description of a historic meeting between Rebbe and R Noach Weinberg, who he claims is the Litvishe version of the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
The Rebbe was trying to make R Noach Weinberg a chassid, saying he doesnt know what simcha and closeness to Hashem is, and R Noach Weinberg says everything you say is mainstream Judaism. Rebbe said since Besht only chassidim can access this- R Noach Weinberg said that is apikorsus, walked out.
R Orlofsky had a Lubavitcher teacher in 10th grade who was determined to make him Lubavitch, who asked him Why are you wasting time with Mussar, learn Tanya, its the only way to reach Hashem This teacher told him about how they would send people to make a secret Tanya shiur in Kol Torah. R Orlofsky asked him Why dont you go to people who arent frum? The teacher said. Theyre the same, they are both not lubavitch To Lubavitchers, only they are Jewish, if youre not Lubavitch you're nothing.
Then he said a few stories of Rabbonim who werent Lubavitch who built up places for Yiddishkeit, after which a shliach came and moved right near his shul. Said There is no orthodox shul here, the Rav pointed out I'm here, the shliach said but you're x lubavitch. People who worked hard to build community then LUbavitch came in to compete and ruinded them..
Said as a result, Lubavitch was held at arms legnth- respected, knew.
Every Lubavitcher he met in 1970's believed Rebbe was Moshiach.
Asked what was Mamash- Menachem Mendel Shneerson. If you dont know that,youre called a Dor Shishi Nik
Tradition Lubavitch would only last 7 gen, last would be Moshiach.
His FIL had been put in cherem by R' Aharon Kotler.
at some point went public- didnt say he was Moshaich, said he's a candidate.
Never been such a concept before
Some claim he didnt know, but he was standing there when they said yechi and was waving.
He knew where to tell Gutnik to dig for gold in Australia, but not what people were saying about it- thats incredulous.
Some say he really thought he was Moshiach!
Then he died, according to most people. There are Lubavitchers who claim hes not dead. So the problem is the tradtion that hed be Moshaich.
People from Lubavitch schools told him that they danced the day he died because x believed it. Hes heart a rumor that people fax stuff to his kever. Thats not the problem. They get answers back,t hey read from the writings.
Some say hes dead but the Moshiach and coming back. They dont quote the Rambam because he writes the qualifications and then says that if he dies hes not Moshaich. Death ends the candidacy.
This leads to terrible terrible problems.
(7/29/2009 6:39:55 AM)
3
convert to chabad and see the light.
Next time think b4 u open ur mouth. (im not saying a am not offended or i accept ur apology)
(7/29/2009 6:39:59 AM)
4
i dont understand
"I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again."
but he said them
(7/29/2009 6:42:45 AM)
5
Huh
His excuse is that he only said it to 8 people???????
He doesn't retract any of the horrible things he said about the Rebbe or his chassidim -
he apologizes ionly if it caused pain???????

This is a sad example for klal yisrael if this is the best he can do. Especially erev tisha B'Av
(7/29/2009 6:43:19 AM)
6
hes anguished?
the only thing that bothers him is that his words were recorded and are now public....
(7/29/2009 6:44:03 AM)
7
Love Lubavitch...
His words are disgusting and disgustful - full of Sinas Chimon...

this is but a minuscule piece of evidence of the blatant baseless hatred that permitted some of the misnagdishe world and almost died out 50-60 years ago but was rekindled in bney brak by the Rosh Yeshiva..... Please understand, that the intolerance and slandering of Chabad by this kinds of people is going on for HUNDREDS of years R"L. they always find new "excuses" and "reasons".

So when you see hear someone degrading Chabad, don't jump on the bandwagon and say: you see what "Yechi..." causes.... the same EXACT thing was with "We Want Moshiach Now". also with Mivtza Tefilin, neshek and many many more - long before Dor Hashviei. dont take it to hart, we need to continue to do what we were instructed by the Rebbe and OUR Rabbonim and Mashpirim, and not be influenced by Chosuve Gedolim, Rabbonim etc.... (NEVER - since the Alter Rebbe - were we popular by the Chareidishe Gedolim and leaders..... this is nothing new....)

Keep your chin up - Yad Hachasidim Al Haelyona!
(7/29/2009 6:44:57 AM)
8
still angry
he did not come there to answer a talmids question he starts off the speach by saying hes going to talk about two different types of chasidim. he mocked chabad for 20 minutes with laughing intervels inbetween. u can see from his short apology that he doesnt mean it. he should be kicked off the panel now!!!!!!!!
(7/29/2009 6:47:43 AM)
9
still shocked
Some say a word is dead when it is said-
others say it begins to live that day.

Saying something once - is all it takes
(7/29/2009 6:47:59 AM)
10
Thank you.
now we can take back what we said.
(7/29/2009 6:48:29 AM)
11
A concerned Toronto Jew
With all due respect to R" orlofsky, he promises never to repeat his words again, but doesn't negate what he feels and that the "sinat chinam" towards our Rebbe is still part and parcel of who is he is. Such a person cannot address a lecture promoting Ahavas Yisroel. He first must practice what he preaches! The Chofetz Chaim Foundation must delete his segment from their film, BEFORE Tisha B'av. May we finally experience a generation of yidden that are truly free from Sinas Chinam. Oy, do we need the Rebbe now.
(7/29/2009 6:49:13 AM)
12
Kol Hakavod
To Rabbi Orlofsky, It takes a man to get up there and say he is sorry for what he has done, and vows not to speak like that in the future.
(7/29/2009 6:51:18 AM)
13
to number 6
very good point.
(7/29/2009 6:52:15 AM)
14
uf rabbi orlofsky
the beis hamikdosh was destroyed on tisha beav because of sinas chinom!! have ahavas chinom, and the third beis hamikdosh will be built!

i stand by my rebbe!
(7/29/2009 6:54:33 AM)
15
Let him pay
You don't spew garbage and then expect not to have to suffer the consequences. This man must, and will, pay for his words.
(7/29/2009 6:55:33 AM)
16
thanks for the apology
Take his apology and let's have ahavas chinam.
(7/29/2009 6:56:41 AM)
17
THIS DOES NOT HELP A BIT
how does take away from the horrible, awful lies he spewed?????

At least he should've said that now he sees what a gadol hador the Rebbe was. You can tell he doesnt mean it, he is just upset that he was exposed to the world as a total and utter HYPOCRITE.

And noone should be more aware of he consequences of words being spoken than the organization that promotes SHMIRAS HALASHON!

I mean, COME ON!
(7/29/2009 6:58:18 AM)
18
this is not an apology
he never says that he regrets saying this stuff, only that he regrets the "pain" that it caused those that heard what he said.

he cowardly apologizes quietly to collive. How about apologizing on vosizneis?!?

He should still be boycotted and so should the chofetz chaim foundation for not canceling his speech!
(7/29/2009 6:58:28 AM)
19
to number 16
gotta feel sorry for him. good idea. and on that note lets get ready to greet moshiach.
(7/29/2009 6:59:17 AM)
20
ah,
now he sees how it affected him, these hundreds of comments and fone calls, he "apologizes"
(7/29/2009 6:59:33 AM)
21
ENOUGH!!!
Michael Rothschild isa first class mentch and a friend of Lubavitch and an Ohev Yisroel.I have known him growing up in Toronto.If he was able to convince R. Orlofsky to have a written retraction and request for mechila then Michael has accomplished a lot and Hashem will reward him for it. As a member of the Lubavitch community I thank Michael and accept R. Orlofskys mechila whether lshma or not , mitoch shilo l'shma ba l'shma. The Rebbe told us Ahavas Chinam will bring the geula. Let's put it to practice now. Moshiach Now!!!
(7/29/2009 7:01:29 AM)
22
chilll!!
shoin. even tho we know what havoc he did, lets not push away moshiach any further
(7/29/2009 7:01:43 AM)
23
To #11
You say "with all due respect to Rabbi Orlofsky..."

You actually have respect for this man? For what???

I called. You can too. Speak up (politely) & tell the nice girl who answers the phone this man has no business speaking about the dangers of slander. What hypocrisy from Chofetz Chaim!
(7/29/2009 7:02:15 AM)
24
Ahavas Chinam.
I would rather be guilty of Ahavas Chinam than Sinas Chinam.
(7/29/2009 7:02:39 AM)
25
Apology
Nowhere in the apology does he state that he has changed his chabad hating opinions. He regrets saying it and causing anguish and he will not say it again but he doesn't admit that his perverted view of lubavitch has changed a single bit.

This is what we call a half arsed apologly.
(7/29/2009 7:03:10 AM)
26
lets greet moshiach
heads up fellow chassidim, WE know whats the truth.
have an easy fast brothers!
(7/29/2009 7:03:33 AM)
27
to #18
You think VIN would post either apology??? They insult Lubavitch as much as anyone.
(7/29/2009 7:04:00 AM)
28
i agree very much with all sorry for the pain is not detracting the ideas or shame
he will be careful not to be caught speaking like this in public about tzaddikim

though i knew this was going to happen this is INTERFERENCE in another organizations speakers

and they didnt want the publicity

this could even backfire

he should detract and say he was wrong
(7/29/2009 7:04:12 AM)
29
It's like the Terrorists apologizing after 9/11
It's like the terrorists apologizing after 9/11
According to the Rambam, proper tshuva is to regret and fix whatever has been done. If you drop a garbage bag filled with confetti from the Empire State Building you can't just say you're sorry, you are responsible for every piece. These words of Orlovsky definitely seeped into the minds of many baalei tshuvos or newcomers who are now engrained with animosity towards chassidus and our Rebbe.

This man's apology is a first step (perhaps to clear the name of the Chofetz Chaim Foundation for its supporters) but says nothing about what needs to be done to reach all his mushpoim in the past.

Sinas Chinom was the cause for the 2nd Bet Hamikdosh to be destroyed and to be mivazeh talmidei chachomim was the cause of the 1st.

And this is done by those who are going to preach to us on Tisha Bav on how to bring back the Beis Hamikdash.

Oy Meh Haya Lonu.
(7/29/2009 7:04:47 AM)
30
If you read what #2 wrote
He didn't say anything really bad about the rebbe, no need to be so up in arms about it.
Would you apologize for calling all misnagdim "chabad haters"? When we are not.
(7/29/2009 7:04:54 AM)
31
too little, too late.
I just read Rabbi Orlovsky's apology and the CCH.

1. Whatever apology he made (& it was a strong one, I have to admit) it doesn't alter the fact that he is a hypocrite. He is standing up to talk about Shmiras Haloshen after what he said??? He should voluntarily step down or be removed.

2. He doesn't deny he said those terrible things (well, how could he?) However, he doesn't repudiate them either. As far as I know he still believes them & my guess is he has said them since. We all say what's in our heart, especially if it gets a response.

3. The damage he has done as a "Rabbi" (I use the title out of respect for his Semicha only) can't be assessed.

4. If the CCH or anyone from Ohr Sameach dares to approach me for $$ they will get a mouthful (albeit without rudeness or curse words.) I suggest we all do the same.

5. Aguch etc should approach the sponsors of all these organizations & ask them to reconsider their support in the light of R. Orlovsky's statements & despite the 2 apologies I have read.

Enough is enough. We shouldn't have to put up with this any more. I must applaud COL for bringing this to our attention. Look what we achieved through our protests. We can do so much more when we show Achdus.

May we merit Moshiach even before Tisha B'Av.
(7/29/2009 7:06:29 AM)
32
wow
to the people at collive, look at the power you have in your hands! amazing!
please use keep using it right!
(7/29/2009 7:06:47 AM)
33
The thing is...
Orlofsky is entitled to his opinion, but he shouldn't be involved with an organization who's mandate so clearly runs against his expressed behavior.
(7/29/2009 7:09:17 AM)
34
He does not mean what he says

I wonder what the question is that the 'talmuld' asked??

to #12 he diddnt vow not to speak like that again, he vowed never to say these WORDS again!!
(7/29/2009 7:11:35 AM)
35
Some clarity
Through some very little research you will learn that he has spoken that way after that recording and his talmidim leave his classes -until this very day- with hateful sentiments towards Lubavitch.
(7/29/2009 7:13:33 AM)
36
The only way...
His apology is valueless until he goes to the Rebbe's Ohel and asks mechila from the Rebbe.
(7/29/2009 7:14:42 AM)
37
to 2
when you quote someone you bear responsibility for it as well,he's not the brisker and he made a mistake.....
this organization is not about debating who and what is right but about being careful what you comes out of your mouth, in this prospect this rov failed miserably.
-about his teacher: don't bring up teachers, adults make up their own minds and find out for themselves especially when they speak publicly and give a straight opinion from a leadership position...
-about shluchim: first of all it might very well be some got hurts when shluchim moved in and not just orthodox, it happens and u can't make a 4000 shluchim strong organization without breaking eggs in some cases, this is not what the rebbe or lubavitch is about, it's about unfortunate ''local'' frictions and should be kept as such.
-you comments of the rebbe's judgement plainly show ur ignorance about what is a rebbe in the first place
-the ''rebbe's moshiach'' issue is clearly an ideological one and in the past 14 years has become less and lees relevant to an huge part of the lubavitch crowds,when it goes vocal and loud it's absolutely marginal,criticize all you want but again this isn't what the rebbe and lubavitch is or was. the rebbe wanted to bring moshiach and every jew should and must.
-about this rov quick and short apology: claiming only 8 people were present is irrelevant it's public and on the record
-he doesn't take them back or reconsider his words,simply apologizing if it hurt anyone.....minimal but sufficient (?)
-the main point is he did apologize and he did it quickly and publicly, hopefully that will be a perfect example how important words are especially in our days where everything and everyone is on the record and recorded so often....
it will definitely serve it's purpose:people be careful what you say especially if your in a position of authority
(7/29/2009 7:15:36 AM)
38
we were tought to have ahavas yisroel
we were thought to forgive
we need to remember who we are - even tough we have very valid and strong feeling why we shouldnt forgive!
but we all know - because the Rebbe told us - the way to bring moshiach is thru having Ahavas Yisroel
(7/29/2009 7:16:10 AM)
39
Stop saying negative
I believe that the fact that col posted the protest and the fact that so many people called and showed we care and what we feel was extremely important but now WE as chabad need to do what we stand for - and accept his apolgy and be the mature ones - even if his apology makes no sense! We need to have ahavas chinam and commend him for what he did-please stop saying negative things or else tey will look at us like what he said about chabad were all true statements!!!
(7/29/2009 7:17:46 AM)
40
Ahavas Chinam
Can I please hear someone say that the Rebbe is NOT actually Moshiach?
May all yidden, frum or frie, litvish chasidish or sphardi, no matter there backround or the unique path they choose to serve god or the Rav/rebbe from they choose to learn how, be zoche to Ahavas Yisrael unilaterally, and the immediate coming of the geulah!
Easy fast all
"Hu yaase Shalom Aleinu v'al kol Yisrael"
(7/29/2009 7:18:13 AM)
41
I personally find it hard to forgive
Especially since he obviously still beleives everything he said. i truly doubt he is telling the truth when he claims he only said these words once.
He seemed very "knowlegeable" in his lies.
This is obviously part of his regular lectures.
I am very disappointed that he is considered a public speaker on Torah subjects when he clearly does not follow the Torah.
(7/29/2009 7:19:29 AM)
42
Are you kidding me?
This is not enough of an apology!!!!
Seems to me his only regret is that he got caught.
(7/29/2009 7:23:10 AM)
43
agree
with 42
(7/29/2009 7:24:41 AM)
44
thank you Michael Rothschild
i agree with 21
well done Michael Rothschild
(7/29/2009 7:25:44 AM)
45
To 44
How is this well done by Michael Rothschild.
By continueing to allow orlofsky to participate in their event they are essentially condoning his behavior.
If that is not called hypocricy I dont know what is.
What a sham this organization is. I used to respect them but now after this I have totally lost all respect for them.
(7/29/2009 7:27:43 AM)
46
visit the ohel
maybe what he can really do now is go to the ohel, and ask the Rebbe for forgiveness for speaking publicly like this.
(7/29/2009 7:31:48 AM)
47
Big Deal
So a stupid Misnagid say things that stupid misnagdim say. Surprise, surprise. Every misnagid that I know has a condescending attitude to Lubavitch, which stems from their own ignorance.

I am not surprised that this man is the poster child for Loshon Horah education - many of these people are the greatest hypocrites on that issue. What I am surprised is that COL would replay his filthy drivel word for word. Feh!
(7/29/2009 7:32:26 AM)
48
his name is not on our flyer in Amsterdam
On the poster in Amsterdam his name is not mentioned, Does that mean he won't be heard? Is this video worldwide the same? The following rabbis are mentioned: Steinman, salomon, kamenetsky, rabinowitz, frand and shapiro, please answer me
(7/29/2009 7:33:38 AM)
49
T0 #36
I Agree!
(7/29/2009 7:43:22 AM)
50
mechilah?
go to the ohel and ask personal mechilah to the rebbe!
(7/29/2009 7:48:01 AM)
51
Chofetz Chaim Heritage
The Chofetz Chaim Heritage foundation is a wonderful asset to the Jewish nation. What they accomplish is to be commended. Let us forgive and forget and may we see the ?Geulah bekarov ame!!
(7/29/2009 7:49:19 AM)
52
ITS TO LATE TO APOLOGIZE!!!
were can i hear the recordings? now that collive took them down?
(7/29/2009 7:51:16 AM)
53
Kop Doktar
Imagine... if a speaker was chosen to give chizuk to kashrus. It is then revealed that only a short while ago he was recorded on video eating a cheeseburger at a treif fast-food location!

The speaker issues an apology, "I only ate one cheeseburger that day, it never happened before, nor will it ever happen again."

Should THIS speaker remain as the keynote address on keeping kosher????

With all due respect. the apology needs to be given AT THE OHEL - ironically, see Hilchos Loshon Hara on this!!

Also, part of the tikun MUST be to speak Loshon Tov, by spreading a positive message about Chabad and the Rebbe - again, see Hilchos Loshon Hara on this issue!!!

Failing to do so, would be, as in our example, the speaker apologizing while keeping a doggie bag of his left-over cheesebuger.

Michael Rothschild, I know you as a real mentch. Do the right thing! Your zchusim will bring light to our dark golus!
(7/29/2009 7:51:26 AM)
54
Go to 770 go to 770 go to 770 go to 770 go to 770 go to 770
mr orlofsky should stand in the rebbes shul 770 beis rabaynu shebabovel ask mechilah from the entire yiddeshe world become a baal teshuvah and start to learn the rebbes sichos and the rebbes mamorim then we will consider the next step
(7/29/2009 7:54:07 AM)
55
Wow 53 - Kop Doktar
Very well said. Really brings the point home.

Lets see this happen, Rabbi Orlofsky!!!!!!
(7/29/2009 7:56:29 AM)
56
this doesn't negate that he still shouldn't speak tomorrow
I appreciate his apology, but the fact that he spoke lashon hara like this means that he cannot be a featured speaker for an organization that promotes shemiras halashon. End of story.
(7/29/2009 7:57:38 AM)
57
(Rabbi)Orlofsky
I have 2 questions to ask you
# 1If you never said these negative comments why are you apologizing?
#2 Why don't you sue the people who distributed the speach which you claimnot to have given?
(7/29/2009 7:58:55 AM)
58
all it is is education
This is the gouls we live in. Jew as awhole get bullied because that is the correct way, and within Judaism, Lubavitchers get bullied because that is the correct way. nothing to get all offended about. so, an uneducated guy said somehitng. if a non-jew said something bad about Jews would you get all hyped up? no! so let him be.
(7/29/2009 7:59:19 AM)
59
agree
we said 54
(7/29/2009 8:01:10 AM)
60
This is not an apology.
First of all, things need to be viewed separately, an on their own merits.

1. It is quite clear that Michael Rothschild is a decent yid who made an innocent mistake, apologized, and attempted to rectify things as best he could - kudos to him.

2. Rabbi Orlofsky not only attacks Chabad and the Lubavitcher Rebbe in the most disgusting way, he also (in the first part of that lecture) calls the Belzer Rebbe an an-haaretz, accuses the early Chassidic rebbes of being people who "knew nothing, who were alchoholics, who were immoral, who had orgies..." - yes, that is an exact quote. He calls Chassidism a "radical stream of judaism, but we tolerate them..." So now, in addition to thanking David Orlofsky for 'tolerating' the chassidim, we're supposed to be happy with this 'apology'.

3. Based on what the Rambam / Shulchan Oruch say about doing teshuva for being a , it is quite clear that Dovid Orlofsky hasn't even begun to do teshuva. He certainly regrets his vicious slander being publicly exposed, but his 'apology' falls far short of what can even remotely be considered teshuva.

In conclusion:
Nobody with an ounce of yiras shomayim will allow himself, nor his family, to hear a single word from Dovid Orlofsky until he demonstartes some real regret, and begins to do teshuva, as mandated by halacha.

Wishing everybody an easy fast.
(7/29/2009 8:01:19 AM)
61
let go and move on!!!
let move our message was heard that we care aboutour rebbes koved now lets move on with tov and chesed vdal
(7/29/2009 8:02:07 AM)
62
ach somayach
orlofsky should start giving a sichoh shiur in ohr samayach then it will be ach somayach
(7/29/2009 8:07:27 AM)
63
Kamenetsky
Why are people taking issue with just this one guy? Kamenetsky has said some horrible things about the Rebbe.
(7/29/2009 8:08:57 AM)
64
To number 63
Rabbi Kamenetsky is no chossid, and probably follows his fathers ways, but- from those who know him well - he is a mentsch. You would never, ever, hear this kind of slander about another Jew from him. In fact, I'd say that most of the hate Rabbi Orlofsky spews in that lecture would not have been said by any frumme yid for about 200+ years.
It's like a goy standing up today and preaching a blood libel.
(7/29/2009 8:22:43 AM)
65
answer to 41#
No he is not in that video there are 2 versions, so for all of those people who are spending so much precious time debating this issue..go do a mitzvah and make someone smile. And if u have a problem with a rabbi then dont watch something hes talking in, but this uproar is not at all needed. .LET IT GO ALREADY.Alot of the Holy tanya is all about being bitul and humbel...it seems that many are acting in an opposite manner by feeling like THEY have been so hurt THEY are so mortified AND they will not alow someone to treat them and THEIR community in such a disrespectful way.Sounds like there is alot of you in all of these things..maybe stop picking at another persons obvious human flaws and look at your own.This is truely galus if this is what people are really thinking is important.MAKE THE REBBE PROUD..AND MOSHIACH NOW!
(7/29/2009 8:22:48 AM)
66
Simple Solution
Why are Chabad Houses publicizing this event? A shander!!! Time for Merkos HQ to start putting their own Web events on so Shluchim needn't run elsewhere for a Tisha B'Av program.
Use this for the positive and limit if not eradicate exposure of those who are jealous, anti, negative and espouse the antithesis of the essence of Chassidus and Mussar. If Orlofsky is the best they can come up with, ochen vey when we feel the need to show him when it is obvious that he has no kovod for gedolim, chassidim, rebbeim, and is lacking in yiras shomayin and poshut limud haTorah. Coral Springs, Jax, Edmonton, Minnesota - take the lead and change your program.
(7/29/2009 8:23:16 AM)
67
CCHF is a true friend of Chabad
As a Lubavitcher, and a friend and supporter of Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation, I can say first-hand that CCHF is a true friend of Chabad, and of every single Jew. They work tirelessly and effectively to bring Moshiach through educational programs--many of them free--promoting ahavas Yisrael, Loshon Tov, and achdus.

After Mumbai, their director, Michael Rothschild wrote and published on the internet, a beautiful open letter to klal Yisrael enttitled, "My brother died at the Chabad House in Mumbai, India" (' target='_blank'>http://www.hashkafah.com/email-brother-died-Chabad-House-Mumbai-India-t55697.html&mode=threaded). Read this and you will see what Michael Rothschild and Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation are really all about.

They were unaware of the unfortunate loshon hora that mr, orlofsky spoke about Chabad at the time that they arranged for him to speak on their Tisha B'Av Event video. And they have been working non-stop to try and repair the damage since the moment they found out about it.
(7/29/2009 8:24:53 AM)
68
Why are we even discussing this...?
We dont talk about Yoshke because we dont want to give power to his name. wHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING THIS GUY WE ARE MAKING HIM FOR FAMOUS AND GIVING HIM LOTS OF ATTENTION.. EVEN IF ITS NEGATIVE ATTENTION ITS STILL ATTENTION. In hollywood they love it..this is what they live for. You dont think this guy is so excited by all the attention we are giving him. He shouldnt even be a thought.
(7/29/2009 8:31:20 AM)
69
to 64
Actually things have been said DIRECTLY to me by him. To the point I threw up I was so sickened by how I was treated, spoken to, and the situations he allowed to happen and took part in that PLEASE G-d have been rectified now.
(7/29/2009 8:31:26 AM)
70
Michael Rothschild, director CCHF
I'm so so sorry. for what we are trying to do--that this should happen erev Tisha Bav --is horrific. I'm sorry.
(7/29/2009 8:35:31 AM)
71
Non-apology apology
Rabbi Orlofsky stated "I would like to express my sincere regret for the pain my words have caused"

Meaning he doesn't regret saying the words, he regrets the fact that they caused so much pain and provoked such a reaction, as pointed out by #18. This is a classic example of a non-apology apology.

Let him renounce his words, and the sentiments contained therein, unambiguously.

Additionally, he has managed to admit saying those words and deny it in the same paragraph:

"I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again."

Rabbi Orlofsky may not know this, but in order to repeat something you need to have said it once before.

The only reason we should accept this lame statement is because it's erev Tisha Bav and ahavas chinam is very much the call of the hour.
(7/29/2009 8:47:57 AM)
72
mechil shmechila
do not be fooled; he his not a fringe guy.
all misnagdim think and feel the same way. I have been a talmid in a litvishe yeshiva in the '70s and taught in another litvishe yeshiva in the '90s, and as a lubavitcher, I've heard this speach countless times. the whole thing including the vindication of satmars.
for those who think that any portion of chabad has caused this kind of talk, listen again and you'll see that the despise these poeple have for us dates at least to the frierdiker rebbe, long befor nun alef-nun beis.
I am very happy that their views are in the open, and again, be aware that every litvak feels as he does, and that is why we should simply have rachmonus on them and keep far away.
zei zeinen doch a umoh shfeila......
(7/29/2009 8:48:35 AM)
73
hersh
He actually pinpointed his downfall by refusing to study chassidus. Had he done so, his speech would have been full of Ahavas Yisroel. A shame on the Ch Ch Foundation which attempts to implant yiras Shomayim but with this speaker has failed miserably. Ein Dovor Ho'Omaid Bifnei Hateshuva - Rabbi start learning CHASSIDUS!
(7/29/2009 8:52:10 AM)
74
to 64 you are wrong
they all say exactly these things. he didn't invent them. he was fed this poison, as I was when i learned in their yeshivos.
(7/29/2009 8:52:26 AM)
75
THE REAL TEST
CHOFETZ CHAIM HERITAGE FOUNDATION IS REPRESENTED BY SELECTED SPEAKERS
IT WILL BE A GRAVE AND AN UNREPAIRABLE MISTAKE LETTING AN INDIVIDUAL ON THIS CALIBER ABLE TO SPEAK, THESE WHERE NOT JUST WORDS, THIS WAS A REFLECTION OF HIS REAL CORE OF HIS UPBRINGING OF THE ENVIRONMENT HE WAS EXPOSE TO , THIS WAS PURE HATRED, VICIOUS, DEGRADING, COMPLETELY AGAINST TORAH VALUES, WHOM EVER CHOOSES TO ASSOCIATE WITH HAS NO PLACE IN ANY COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, THIS IS A TEST WHICH WILL BRING THE TRUTH TO THE SURFACE.
THE TIME HAS COME
(7/29/2009 9:00:33 AM)
76
forgiving is not the same as liking
We were complaining that he was saying bad things about Lubavitch in public, and that it's a mitzvah to be mochiach him. So that's what we did, and he apologized and asked for our mechila! So, we should be moichel him for saying something that he once said and now regrets. That doesn't mean we have to like him, nor does he have to like us, but from this point on, we did what we had to, so there's no more excuses for loshon hora.
(7/29/2009 9:01:47 AM)
77
"I never said these words before, nor have I ever repeated these words, nor will I ever repeat these words again."
i said it in front of a class of 8 people. i will never say it again. I NEVER SAID THESE WORDS BEFORE.!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????
hellllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooo????????????
(7/29/2009 9:07:11 AM)
78
AFTER ALL THE FACTS
THIS IS NOT ABOUT US OR HIM,
WHATEVER THE ORGANIZATION CHOOSES TO DO WILL SEND A STRONG MESSAGE.
(7/29/2009 9:17:32 AM)
79
To COL
May I suggest you email all these comments & those from the other thread to Rabbi Rothschild AND to Rabbi Orlofsky? They need to know exactly the level of pain they have caused & the feelings of mistrust we hold about the organization AND this reprehensible, hypocritical individual.

Basically, we are not falling for it. And they need to understand that.

Fellow Lubavitchers: keep the calls & emails to Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation coming! And anyone who goes to Lecture 2 tomorrow...WALK OUT when he gets up to speak. Make a dignified machor!
(7/29/2009 9:18:15 AM)
80
Moshe Yokel
Sorry

harm was done


(7/29/2009 9:24:21 AM)
81
To #72
Well said! I was raised in a Litvak home & I cried plenty listening to insane criticism of Chabad & our Rebbe by my otherwise tolerant family. Everything you said is true.
(7/29/2009 9:32:51 AM)
82
Words or Action
Rabbi Orlofsky should commit to doing Teshuva through deeds like perhaps fasting for speaking about a Tzaddik Hador. Does he think that he can fool G-d himself? Words are not enough for what has been done. Is he capable of expressing love to The Rebbe unlike the negativity that he has spewed. That is the litmus test.
Rabbi Orlofsky should know that we can teach him through Tanya how to truly have Ahavas Yisroel this Erev Tisha B'av.
(7/29/2009 9:35:06 AM)
83
A timeless story about the chofetz chayim and the frierdiker rebbe
when the chofetz chayim wrotre his shmiras haloshon book, he sent a shliach to all the gedolim of europe for haskomos, including to the frierdiker rebbe. When the shliach came to the frierdiker rebbe, the rebbe looked at the manuscripts and said that he cannot give a haskomo because there are 2 things missing in the book: 1 that he only talks about what is not allowed (sur mera and no asse tov), and 2, that he does not mention that somtimes, twitching your nose can also be real loshon hora.
When the shliach returned to the chofetz chayim, he asked him if everyone gave a haskomo. The reply was that all did, besides the frierdiker rebbe. To which the chofetz chayim responded with a twitch of his nose.
So you see my friends, the seemingly inconsistency in the shmiras haloshon movement dates back to it's founder.
(7/29/2009 9:49:03 AM)
84
shaliach
also kotler tried to apologize to the rebbe , mister it's too late go find another job
(7/29/2009 9:49:04 AM)
85
Boruch ben Tzvi (A"H) HaKohaine Hoffinger BS"D
R. (Not a rabbi in my eyes. Rabbi mean teacher.) Orlovsky is a brainless fool.
What wisdom does he have?
He's probably jealous.
Saying anything negative about the Messiah, especially during these 3 weeks show this man is of lttle import.
Tragic. Crazy. Galus.
(7/29/2009 9:50:48 AM)
86
MAKE THE FINAL DECISION PUBLIC
It is very disturbing that this organization has not made a final decision to ban this individual. THE HESITATION IS VERY DESTRUCTIVE. it reflex their full support of what he said.
(7/29/2009 10:03:51 AM)
87
Is the apology another lie ?
Rabbi Orlofsky says that "The words I said, were said once, in response to a question of a talmid, to a class of 8 people."
Yet for anybody who actually listened to the recordings, that is simply a lie. He started off mocking Chassidim and their Rebbeim as part of his prepared remarks, and continued on from there. He made sure to use the questions as a springboard for further vile slander, but most of his ignorant and vicious remarks were NOT in response to any question.
As to whether his remarks were in fact only made to "eight talmidim", we have no way of (presently) ascertaining that. What we do know, is that Dovid Orlofsky seems to have an almost violent hate for Chabad, but is very sorry that his hate has become so public - he's the type to prefer stabbing you in the back, quietly.

So, Rabbi Orlofsky, if you want this to 'go away', you're going to have to do much better than your plastic 3-liner. You're going to have to publicly and unequivocally, yes- clearly- apologize for what you've done. It would seem, based on the Shulchan Aruch, that you'd need to post a detailed retraction of your vile words on your website. Then, and only then, can the many you have so viciously maligned, consider forgiveness.

I wish you well, teshuva is never easy, but if you really mean it- you will surely succeed.
(7/29/2009 10:05:20 AM)
88
bunch of BABIES!!!
y dont u all grow up already and move on in life??? what would the rebbe say if he was alive today?? huh?? would he sit on the computer and in 770 talking about this WASTING precious time?? I DONT THINK SO! oh and all u brave ppl opening up on the internet where noone knows who u r ?? cowards maybe get on in life and do some good deeds and make the rebbe and Hashem happy, cmon already...
(7/29/2009 10:14:58 AM)
89
Ouraged
I attempted to send the following message to the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation after I called them and requested an email address, but the address (surprise!) was not in service. Here is the text of my message:

Let me understand please. Rabbi Orlofsky is lecturing on Tisha BAv about Slander, Gossip and Verbal Abuse? And his excuse is that he said it in front of only 8 people? And his apology only worries about the pain that he caused but he doesnt regret WHAT he said? And this is going to lecture on Tisha BAv about shmiras haloshon? Do you know what the meaning of the word hypocrite is? I used to have respect for your organization. The local Chabad day school has your posters all over the school. I will make sure that for the next school year that those posters are removed. Your organization doesnt deserve the zchus to spread the holy message of the Chofetz Chaim. When I was growing up as a teenager I personally knew and was close to a talmid of the Chofetz Chaim Rabbi Moshe Yoshor ZL. He was the epitome of what the Chofetz Chaim espoused. A true talmid chochom and a true gentleman, daato meurav im habriyos. You couldnt tie his shoes. Why dont you just go into business or something. At least then it wouldnt be that much of a chilul Hashem. IMHO, Rabbi Orlofsky needs to do Teshuva for real and those who make excuses for him as well.
(7/29/2009 10:15:29 AM)
90
i emailed the cc foundation
I emailed the foundation and I got an automatic respose of the above apology letter.
I responded by saying the following:
The "apology" letter written by dovid orlofsky is no apology.



I'm curious to know what the question is that the 'talmud' asked. Was it perhaps Why do we hate Lubavitch so much? or Which sect of Chassidim are the craziest? What kind of question deserves a 20 minute answer putting down chabad?



He is not sorry for what he said, he's sorry that he got atacked for what he said.



I am still asking that you do not keep him on your panel for of all topics shmiras haloshon.



If he does get up to speak, it will only reflect negetively on your organization and all that you stand for.



Would you ask a non shomer shabbos jew come speak about the halochos of shabbos???

to which i received the following response:

His speech was recorder two months ago, when we had no idea that he had spoken against anybody.

We cant change it now. It is not live.

Unfortunately, our pleas are being dismissed!
(7/29/2009 10:20:59 AM)
91
In perspective.
What other organization would respond so quickly and strongly. Mr. Rothschild deserves our thanks.

By calling others Stupid Misnagdim you are just as bad as anybody else.

Even though his comments did cause pain and are inexcusable we must have that extra Ahvahs Chinam and forgive him. The Rebbe never instructed us to get offended on his behalf; he did instruct us to do all we can to bring Moshiach.

If we get so worked up when someone speaks out against the rebbe we should get at least equally worked up to do what the Rebbe asked us to do.
(7/29/2009 10:22:03 AM)
92
Can't believe this
It seems like Michael Rothchild is a good and sincere person whow has a real problem on his hands. However, if he couldn't get a real oplogy from Orlovsky, he should have not published anything. He was m'vazeh the Rebbe. He has the right to continue to not be a chosid, but he could opologise for repeating stories that he had no good source for, or for not trying to see the stories that he did see in a better light (as he does so effectivly with satmar) The least he has to do is go to the ohel and ask mechilah.
(7/29/2009 10:24:53 AM)
93
To #83
Be very careful before you slander the great chofetz chaim with a story that really does not add up.
(7/29/2009 10:25:44 AM)
94
You know,
However bad it was what Orlofsky did, many of the comments here will make others certain that Lubavitchers are truly loony.
(7/29/2009 10:33:28 AM)
95
REALITY CHECK
To me it seems pretty simple:

(1) This is not new news. It is just new to you, because you just found out. But it has been going on with so many for so long. So now you want to be moiche against misnagdim?

(2) However there is a blatant hypocricy for the CCF to be airing any such person who is known to have articulated such unforgiveable sentiments.

(3) It is not for us to fogive him. He really should go to the Ohel and ask mechila al pi din Shulchan Oruch.

(4) NEVERTHELESS, the precise Ahavas Chinom that is demanded of us is that we love unconditionally, even those that hate us. To love someone who agress with you - that's no kuntz. Un dos mont zich in Chassidus.

(5) That this episode happened Erev Tish B'Av is certainly bashert and as the BS"T would say, a lesson in hasgocho protis. How much offensive wording is espoused amongst our own? How much do we practise what we preach in Ahavas Yisroel? R' Orlefsky's words hurt every Lubavitcher. But do we stop to consider how our own words and actions sometimes hurt our fellow Lubavitchers? We know of the numerous machloikes that goes on v'ain mokom leha'arich bozeh - and if this unfortunate experience can alert us to that reality such that we look to heal the rifts between us - - - if even one rift is healed as a result, then Moshiach will be one vital step closer and will be revealed bikoroiv MAMOSH!
(7/29/2009 10:38:59 AM)
96
Nebech on Orlofsky
Orlofsky - nebech. May G-d have mercy on your soul.
(7/29/2009 10:42:42 AM)
97
To #88
Why don't you take your own advice. Be a living example big shot.
(7/29/2009 11:01:29 AM)
98
Ohr Somayach / Orlofsky / Schiller / Hate / Fake Apologies
It's interesting to note that a few years back, when cd's of Orlofsky hateful diatribe were distributed to various Rabbonim in Toronto, two shuls cancelled lectures by David Orlofsky. However, what takes the cake is this:
Later that year, Rabi Nota Schiller of Ohr Somayach, came to Toronto to try and smooth things over. (It seems Dovid Orlofsky is an excellent fundraiser for OS, and they wanted him back in town for an event.)

When confronted with Orlofskys statements, do you know what Rabbi Schiller said ?
"This shiur was given off-campus in another location, so it has nothing to do with Ohr Somayach"
So there we have it. We can hate, lie, slander, and anything else, because- if and when you catch us, no big deal.
We simply lie, fudge, make a silly excuse, or issue a fake 'apology'.
Does anybody in their right mind believa that Neve Yerushalayim, Aish, or Ohr Somayach would now consider dropping Dovid Orlofsky from their faculty on account of his sinas-chinom? Of-course not!! He's funny, a good fundraiser, and he's only repeating what so many of his teachers say privately. Until attitudes change in a meaningful way, anybody with any derech eretz for Torah, Talmidei Chachomim, Chassidic Rebbes, or any ahavas yisrael at all, will avoid these organizations like the plague.

This is NOT the case with the Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation. They are good people who made an honest mistake here, and one they will surely never repeat.
(7/29/2009 11:09:23 AM)
99
From Toronto
hardly anything can bee added to all the thoughts previously expressed. One thing I can add is this: (and this applies to many others, even in Lubavitch)

You are a Rabbi, You represent the Jewish people. In a certain way, as a Jew and what is thought of as a leader of Jews, you have to act it!!

I am not condoning being inconsistent, but sometimes people speak one way amongst their buddies and otherwise in front of a group. (I am not talking about the Tochein of the words, I am talking about the packaging of the Tochein.)

If you heard his speech, you would have heard the words of someone shmoozing while taking off his Tefillin.

Mister, you are a Rabbi. You have to represent yourself as such.



(7/29/2009 11:12:53 AM)
100
to #93
I am not writer #83, I am another person who has heard that story before
(7/29/2009 11:26:04 AM)
101
He needs to go to the OHEL and ask for Mechila
That's where the mechila belongs. He said Loshon Hora on the Rebbe, more than anything else.
(7/29/2009 11:28:26 AM)
102
Lets be reasonable
Its not fair of us to slam the CCHF now, considering that they acknowledged our concerns, and that a grave error was made. However, since the program was all pre-recorded, there isn't much they can do now.
IF they ever use David Orlofsky again - that would be another story, but the people there are real mentchen, and I doubt they will.
(7/29/2009 11:28:48 AM)
103
right to continue to not be a Chossid.
According to the Baal Shem Tov nobody has a right to not be a chossid....
(7/29/2009 11:30:01 AM)
104
Paul Krakow of Alpharetta GA
a quick shiloh (a minor detail) . . . since there were only 8 people present (9 including the speaker) is the lashon hara in question at a lesser level of intensity then if ten people (a minyan) were present? (I'm just curious if there is a halachic significance to number of people hearing lashon hara going beyond ten)
(7/29/2009 11:42:50 AM)
105
shlucha of the Rebbe
i was so upset today, i couldnt even daven straight....but then i realized that it helped me run my CGI with so much more strength. we are the Yosef Hatzadik and they are the rest of the shevatim.. they just dont get it. they dont understand it AT ALL... I really admire those yidden who can forgive him so quickly....it hurts us...ITS OUR REBBE!!!! but i think if WE represent Ahavas Yisrael - then no matter what we should find the koach the REbbe gave us and use it to forgive him.
Venizkeh zehn zich mitn Rebbe duh limateh ve'hu yigaleinu Amen!!!!
have an easy fast:)
(7/29/2009 11:55:14 AM)
106
Three People
is considered public.
(7/29/2009 12:10:17 PM)
107
Needs positive action to show he's sorry
As many mentioned, he only seems sorry that people heard about it. The whole letter seems a bit arrogant. To change, there needs to be a positive course of action, like a hachlata to actually learn more about chabad and chassidus from actual chabad chassidim - or something like that.
(7/29/2009 12:13:54 PM)
108
To 94
We should remember that someone who is crazy, is crazy; it's nebach not their fault. But someone who is a Rosho has a choice; and as long as he mocks the Rebbe borabim and doesn't do Teshuva borabim (that means to admit he's wrong and to say unconditionally that what was said is wrong)....then Mi shyesh beyodo limchos velo micho, mikri....
(7/29/2009 12:14:40 PM)
109
Fake, Phony, Fraud
This guy is worse than Obama, CCHF should demand a better apology or delete him from the video they're planning to show.
It was not a response to a talmid, he starts off the lecture by saying: "We spoke last time about reform, conservative, reconstructionist, and now we'll talk about chassidim."

Actually, someone asks about Breslov and he says we're not going to talk about that. So much it just being an answer to a question.

But more to the point, who cares if it was only a response to a question in front of 8 people. What if I called you a ganev and a shoiteh and then apologized by saying i only said it as a response to a question to a talmid????
(7/29/2009 12:20:35 PM)
110
First loshon hara and now sheker
To cover up his loshon hara, he's now lying, as pointed out by 109. Just as he lies in his apology, he reveals that all his stories are lies and falshehoods.

So now he's disqualified from speaking at a Midvar Sheker Tirchak rallies.
(7/29/2009 12:32:16 PM)
111
this is called oplogzing?!!!!
What does he have to oplogize for! opologizing doesn't mean he that he no longer believes the words that he said. he just "regrets how much pain they caused". we shouldn't accept this opology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(7/29/2009 12:43:39 PM)
112
Chabad and Kollels
Now you understand why Chabad is weary of kollels and misnagdic kiruv people. Sadly, Orlfosky's vitriol is not unusual among misnagdim. They will come to a community and smile to everyone and join the Chabad shul and dance at the shliach's wedding and then behind Chabad's back will tell the community members the same lies that Orlofsky promotes.
(7/29/2009 12:45:57 PM)
113
Slimy and underhanded
Orflofsky, sadly, teaches at Neveh, a baal teshuvah seminary in israel. We now know why the girls that go there come back hating Chabad. Perhaps some pressure should be applied to Neveh to get rid of this hater.

If he engages in this against Chabad in such a slimy under-handed way, laughing like a snake as he plants his poison in the innocent minds of his students, and then lies openly in his "apology" -- is he a man that can be trusted around young people?
(7/29/2009 12:49:25 PM)
114
To Rabbi Michael Rothschild
Can we please put the baseless hatred toward Chassidim from the times of the Alter Rebbe and the GRA behind us? How many Tisha B'Avs have passed since then? Is the point of your organization to foster Love between Jews? How do you have someone on your staff that carries a 200 year old grudge? Lo Sikom...Lo Sitor...Lo Selech Rochil. WHEN DOES THIS NARISHKEIT STOP? Now it's supposed to be Chabad's responsibility to "put this behind us"? Chabad didn't start this. Not now, not 30 years ago, not 200 years ago. LET THE ONES WHO STARTED THIS, STOP IT! Let these reshoim follow the advice of your organization - Shmiras Haloshon...Machsom L'Fi (Oh...he probably didn't say it between 9 and 10 am). Let the one who did this own up to what he did and take responsibility. He crossed a line...too bad. In the times of the Sanhedrin a person who was mechuyav misa R"L was given the punishment whether he did Teshuva or not. Meihem yiru vechein Yaasu. CCF needs to come down hard on him and make an example of what happens when a "Rabbi" who represents an organization does exactly opposite of what the organizations goals are. Otherwise, CCF is complicit after the fact in everything and we can only draw our own conclusions as to what that means.
(7/29/2009 12:52:12 PM)
115
It's okay to disagree with Chabad
But Orlofsky did not just "disagree" with the Rebbe. R' Ovadia Yosef disagreed with the Rebbe (yet he is qouted in Likutei Sichos--no grudge is held). The Satmar Rov disagreed with the Rebbe. Orlofsky, on the other hand, spoke disgustingly and with hatred regarding the Rebbe. IT is inexcusable.
(7/29/2009 12:58:49 PM)
116
Adding to 112
In the city where I live there is a Kollel that just started. One of the Kollel wives told a mikureves who just started going to the Mikva (not yet frum) that Chabad Mikvas are posul. Word got around and a very strong macho'oh was made by the shluchim and local anash and they had to apologize. The apology was: "We didn't do it. The woman did it on her own. We would never do this." Blah, blah. Once this was made public, I made sure to tell all of the local Chabad balei batim and mekuravim EXACTLY what this was about. BTW, the mikva that the Kollel families use (at a non-Chabad shul) is Bor al Gabei Bor, anyway. This is nothing less than AmHooratzus and Rishus.
(7/29/2009 1:02:15 PM)
117
let him do teshuvah
he should go to the ohel and ask the rebbe for mechilah. then maybe maybe then will i be intrested in even discussing if to listen to this guy after a couple of years of him behaving himself
(7/29/2009 1:42:36 PM)
118
don lekav zechus
to be fair, when he says 'i never said these words before' i think he means this was the only time-i.e. he doesn't go round every day cursing chabad.
(7/29/2009 1:45:31 PM)
119
MY TATI HATES YOUR REBBE!!!
The difference between a Chassid and

About 2 decades ago in the very holy and Talmudic city of Antwerp, Belgium a young and vibrant little girl from a well known Lubavitch family attended the local BETH JACOB school. Being it was the Rebbes decision not to open a competing establishment, the local Lubavitchers (girls) all attended the above mentioned (rather litvish or veltish) institution. One day, in the middle of recess while playing outside in the courtyard, a classmate approached this Lubavitch girl and says: YOU KNOW, MY TATI HATES YOUR REBBE! without skipping a hearts beat the little girl responded: YOU KNOW, MY REBBE LOVES YOUR TATI!

Typically, an 8 yr. old child repeats the words of his/hers elders. This story, defines the topics voiced in the above mentioned diverse homes. The individuals such as Orlofski should simply be regarded as uneducated and misled.

Quite frankly I think the sudden so called KANO`US brewed by this foolish individual should be left for HKB`H to judge. Lets rather give the Rebbe nachas ruach by fulfilling his wish and acting according to what he instilled in us for over 40 years.

Have an easy fast.

Dovi Minkowicz


(7/29/2009 1:46:05 PM)
120
......ACCEPT HIS APOLOGY! please!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW WE HAVE TO SHOW THAT WE CARE ABOUT BRINGING ACHDUS AND MOSHIACH AND BLINKING WE LL ACCEPT HIS APOLOGY!!!!!!!!
we have been vindicated - now lets be gracious! He's LEARNT his lesson!
He's also a Yid....
(7/29/2009 1:48:22 PM)
121
Which Shliach?!?!?!?!
I want to know which shliach is broadcasting this Chafetz Chaim heritage program on Tisha B'av when they allow a speaker who quoted the Rebbe being called.........????? How can a "Rabbi" speak on Tisha B'av about Lashon Hara etc. when he is quoted as having spoken about the Rebbe in such a vile way. We have to protest this Chafet Chaim foundation until they remove him and penalize him for his provocotive words and tone towards the Rebbe.!!
(7/29/2009 1:51:28 PM)
122
What????
So basically he didn't deny that that is what he feels - he just feels bad that this has been broadcast and he's in trouble.
Did he say I was wrong - the Rebbe was a tzadik?No. He said I'll never SAY it again - but he'll continue to think it.
(7/29/2009 1:59:30 PM)
123
to number 67
the link does not work- how do i read his letter about Mumbai???
(7/29/2009 1:59:53 PM)
124
AD MOSSAI!!
WILL WE CONTINUE IN THIS HORRIBLE CHAIN OF LH"R?
WE KNOW WHO OUR REBBE IS AND NEED NOT TO WORRY ABOUT PPLS COMMENTS!
MOSHIACH NOW!!!!
(7/29/2009 2:38:39 PM)
125
To #118
So a murderer is only guilty after the second murder?
(7/29/2009 2:51:26 PM)
126
To #120
After 200 years none of them has learned anything. Let them hold out the olive branch.
(7/29/2009 2:54:51 PM)
127
SimpleYid.
Where is his apology? To me this seems like an excuse.

He should come out and say that what he said was very foolish and he was wrong. Why is he giving excuses? Some People!
(7/29/2009 2:57:04 PM)
128
To 124
Yes, Moshiach now. We need to bring Moshiach by being accepting and loving. But if someone starts a fight, bringing Moshiach doesn't mean that you need to be a doormat. Please see Moshe Rabeinu vs. Korach Va'adosi. (No comparison to Moshe Rabeinu but there's an einfache lesson there as well.)
(7/29/2009 2:58:31 PM)
129
To 119
And the mikurovim that they poison? The suggestion is that we sit with farleigte hent and smile sweetly?
(7/29/2009 3:00:03 PM)
130
BTW
Yasher koach to COLLive for being on top of this from the beginning. You're the only Chabad WebSite with any kind of Geon Yaakov and Lubavitch pride.
(7/29/2009 3:06:03 PM)
131
i agree
too 42 #
(7/29/2009 3:21:08 PM)
132
PRAISE THE REBBE AND CHABAD
If he REALLY regrets what he said (cause he changed his position and now loves the rebbe and chabad)he has to do the opposite what he did and Publicly PRAISE THE REBBE AND CHABAD otherwise what use to opologize when we know what lurks in his head!
(7/29/2009 4:12:27 PM)
133
To 129
It is every Lubavitchers obligation to go out there and return as many Yidden as possible to their Jewish roots. By being argumentative and quarrelsome about the corrupt behavior in the Litvish KIRUV scheme, one would have accomplished zilch except loss of time. The Rebbe, a living example for 90+ years of how a Jewish individual should conduct himself and a beacon and guiding light in TIME MANAGEMENT, in my humble opinion wouldnt retort to this matter as we have. Though I truly believe Rabbi Rothschilds apology isnt just a politically correct statement, I do not commend Orlofskis KAV HADIBUR! On the contrary, I denigrate it!

As a Lubavither we have to learn to take these guys with a grain of salt. After all, opposition and hostility, especially amongst your own is testimony of success. The wrongdoing by a man like Orlofski, particularly with a very poor repentance letter which should somewhat be interpreted as an excuse is hardly redeemable by a Chassids precious and limited time. (HAZEMAN KATZAR VEHAMELOCHO MERUBO)

The reason behind your detestation for these people, is it because DU NEMST ZICH ON FAR DEM REBBENS KAVOD? If so, there are far more laborious demands for us to concentrate on. Dont get me wrong! This event pains me enormously! Just ask yourself one question: WHO`S ORLOFSKI?!

Have an easy fast.

Dovi Minkowicz

Ps: Whom do I have the pleasure in chatting with?
(7/29/2009 4:13:26 PM)
134
A Chassid Is Fort A Chassid!
It is so nice to see the deep feelings of love for the Rebbe expressed so passionately by so many in the last 12 hours. I think that the response to this story has broken all records. Despite the self criticism that is sometimes expressed on this forum, the fact remains that a Chassid is fort a Chassid.
The Rebbe declared that Yad Chassidim Al Elyonah and today we saw it BMuchash. Boy what a little Achdus can do.
Thanks to COL and to Rabbi Kahanov for taking the initiative on this issue.
(7/29/2009 4:30:13 PM)
135
To Dovi
Should we read your comments with a Pozeir or an Azlageireish?
(7/29/2009 4:41:08 PM)
136
Kokus #135
Well said
(7/29/2009 4:55:20 PM)
137
a friend
love all you lubavitchers. you are truly awesome.
have an easy fast.
(7/29/2009 6:12:42 PM)
138
TO DOVI
WHERE ARE U THESE DAYS?

HAVENT HEARD FROM U IN AGES!
(7/29/2009 6:23:02 PM)
139
clarificaation
to #83 :
that story ha no mokoir
(7/29/2009 8:26:08 PM)
140
Text of Michael Rothschild's letter, "My Brother Died at the Chabad House in Mumbai"
My Dear Fellow Jew,

On Wednesday night I logged onto Reuters on my Blackberry and I saw something about terrorists in Mumbai. No connection to me. Or so I thought.

The next morning the news slammed home when my chavrusa told me that his cousin is the Chabad shaliach in Mumbai and that there was some kind of attack and they can't seem to get him on the phone.

For the next 24 hours I, my family and everybody I know had only one thing on our minds - the fate of the Chabad shaliach, his wife and the unknown number of hostages inside the Chabad house.

Information was so conflicting. We tried to make sense of it all, grasping at straws, hoping against hope that somehow, somehow they would come out alive. And we davened. Hundreds of thousands of Jews. We all poured out
our hearts in Tefilah in every country, city, neighborhood, yeshiva, shul and home. An unprecedented outpouring of Tefillah.

And then the news came that the counterattack had begun and commandos were storming the building. How we sat on edge, imaging in our mind's eye the commandos fighting room to room.through the bullets and the explosions.

And while all this was going on I thought to myself.

"Ribono Shel Olam, look at your amazing people. Hundreds of thousands of people gripped by fear, davening for people they never knew and from sections of Klal Yisrael that they don't belong."

Last Thursday it didn't matter if you were Chabad, Bobov or Toldos Avrahom Yitzchok. OUR brothers were in that house and we reacted instinctively - with the love of brother.

And so I wonder, my dear brothers and sisters:

Imagine we could always be this way!

Imagine we walked in the street and gave a smile and a Sholom Aleichem to every Jew, even if he didn't look like we did.

Imagine there was a way we could hold onto the incredible Ahavas Yisrael that was displayed this past Thursday, that showed we are one nation!

Yes, I know. I realize it's not so simple because tragedy has a way of uniting people - but it's not impossible! Consider this:

If there wasn't Ahavas Yisrael in our hearts in the first place we wouldn't have reacted so powerfully and instinctively with nonstop Tehillim.We woudn't have listened to the news 20 times that day!

If we can just shake loose of the yetzer hora that pushes us to be divided.If we just took a good look in the mirror we would see that under that tough exterior we are all really Ohevi Yisrael - lovers of Jews.

My Rav spoke about Mumbai yesterday. He quoted an excerpt from the sefer Amud HaAvodah. This is a quote from the sefer:

"It is a fact that when Yidden in one city hear that tzaddikim in another city have been tortured and killed by gentile murderers, the Yidden in the first city are certain to be terribly pained and anguished. Even if they had never known them. Even if they had never seen them. Their hearts ache upon hearing of Jews killed with cruelty.

This phenomenon is rooted in the unity of the souls of the Jewish people. This is indeed a proof to the existence of this unity.

And so now the horrific truth of what happened in India has become revealed to the world. My brother died in that Chabad house as did yours.

and the immense Ahavas Yisrael that we Jews have for each other was revealed - to the world, and more importantly to ourselves!

But we must not let this event slip by like a ship in the night!

Let's each make a kabalah - a personal resolution - that starting right now we and our family will take something on that shows we care about every single Jew.

Not just lip service - but a real goal. One that we write down and post in our house, tell our friends about, and monitor weekly to see how we're doing.

For instance:

Maybe we should work on the way we greet tzedakah collectors at our door - you know, put ourselves in their position of having to knock on a stranger's door.

How we would we like people to greet us?

Or maybe to really daven for specific people from our shul for their childrens shidduchim or livelihood. And certainly to work on not speaking loshon hora about individuals and certainly not sections of Klal Yisrael.

Hashem thrust the kedoshim who died in India on the stage of Jewish history for a few days last week. But their impact can last a lifetime if we act!

The last few months have seen major calamities befall the world at large. They are affecting - and could further affect - Klal Yisrael very profoundly.

Let each Jew as an individual and as a family take on one resolution - a single kabbalah - of Ahavas Yisrael, so that in these trying times Hashem will look down at us and see the love we have for each other. The love that proves we're a family. His family. And with that impetus may Hashem redeem His children from all the tzoros and bring us, as the one family that we are, to our home in Yerushalayim.

Let's just do it NOW! Please pass on this letter to as many people as possible so together we can keep the flame of Ahavas Yisrael burning.

With a sad but hopeful heart,

Chofetz Chaim Heritage Foundation

P.S. just some practical ideas.

To work on tefilah -- write down a list of people you know need shidduchim, parnassah, refuahs and keep in your siddur.
(7/29/2009 8:53:06 PM)
141
tanya
maybe he should of listened to his teacher and learned tanya.... maybe then he would not come to such sinas chinom..
(7/29/2009 9:07:06 PM)
142
funny #110
Although this is very sad and depressing, I must admit comment #110 was pretty funny.
(7/29/2009 10:03:12 PM)
143
For the record
For the record, a lot of these "Rabbis" slander chabad. It happens all the time. Its just the Orlofsky got caught on tape and somehow COL got a hold of the tape

Bad luck for Orlofsky
(7/29/2009 10:06:41 PM)
144
Orlofsky did nothing wrong...
Don't you know its not Loshon Horah if you say bad things about Chabad. The issur of loshon hora does not apply to Chabad. (Sad to say but this is what they think....)
(7/29/2009 10:10:13 PM)
145
orlofsky
he only teaches what he hears all day long, wha t , sadly people enjoy hearing. And we in Lubavitch have this Challenge to make them understand different, But
Chas vesholom to fall and give hem acknowledgement or
FINSTERNISH FUN GOLUS IS GREAT LET US NOT SAY THEY ARE KIRUV NO KIRUV LET US NOT FOOL OURSELVES OR OHERS WE SHOULD BE STRONG
LIKE IN THE DAYS OF OLD AND WE WILL SUCCEED
(7/29/2009 10:45:26 PM)
146
To Rabbi Orlovsky
Who is certainly reading all of these comments, (although he would never admit it).

I say Kol Hakvod for coming out and making this apology. Although you do not take back any of what you said, it is a BIG STEP in the right direction. I say, let's focus on love of each other, You of chabad and chabad of you, and find a few chabadnicks to have a discussion with WITH AN OPEN MIND, not to become a Chabadnik, just to clarify that some of things (e.g. assumptions) that you made are either (1) false, or (2) misqotes, or (3) misinterpertations, or (4) misunderstandings, and some are (5) true. But it's good to keep the lines of communication open.

Yasher Kosach!

Have an easy fast!
(7/29/2009 11:41:14 PM)
147
GET OVER IT!!!
SO WAHT??

LIKE NOW WAT?

HUS GNO GAIN BAREING A GRUDGE
(7/30/2009 12:21:52 AM)
148
NOTICE !!!
WHAT IS ORLOFSKY SAYING?
HE IS NOT SAYING:
1.HE REGRETS WHAT HE DID OR
2.HE DIDN'T MEAN IT IN THE WAY IT WAS UNDERSTOOD

WHAT IS CLEAR FROM WHAT HE WRITES:
"...SINCERE REGRET FOR THE PAIN MY WORDS HAVE CAUSED...I AM HORRIFIED THAT ON EREV TISHA B'AV...THEY SHOULD BE THE CAUSE OF STRIFE IN KLAL YISROEL...I AM ANGUISHED THAT MY WORDS HAVE CAUSED AGMAS NEFESH TO SO MANY WONDERFUL PEOPLE..."

FROM ALL THIS IS CLEAR THAT HE DOES NOT RETRACT IN ANY WAY FROM WHAT HE HAS SAID (ALSO THAT WOULDN'T BE LOGICAL SINCE USUALLY WHAT PEOPLE SAY IS EXPRESSING WHAT THEY THINK AND FEEL, AND WHY WOULD HE CHANGE HIS OPINION AS A RESULT OF PEOPLE GETTING OFFENDED)
THOUGH HE WAS SADDENED THAT IT CAUSED "AGMAS NEFESH"
IN OTHER WORDS: GRANTING HIM WITH THE BENEFIT OF DOUGHT THAT HE REALLY REGRETS THE RESULT OF WHAT HE SAID, HE STILL STANDS WHITH HIS OPINIONS, AND IF IN A SCENARIO WHERE HE CAN VOICE THESE OPINIONS WITHOUT OFFENDING ANYONE HE WOULD DO IT AGAIN.

THUS HE DID NOT CURE THE PROBLEM.
I DON'T THINK THAT ANYBODY WAS UPSET OR (AT LEAST) OFFENDED BY HIM CAUSING AGMAS NEFESH TO OTHERS (AND THAT WOULDN'T BE LOGICAL EITHER SINCE IF EVERY ONE IS JUST UPSET ON HIM CAUSING AGMAS NEFESH SO WHO WERE THE PEOPLE HE CAUSED AGMAS NEFESH TO VEDA"L) PEOPLE WERE CLEARLY OFFENDED SOLELY BECAUSE OF (AT LEAST VOICING ) HIS OPINIONS.
= PROBLEM NOT SOLVED.
(7/30/2009 12:30:05 AM)
149
answer to 41#
No he is not in that video there are 2 versions, so for all of those people who are spending so much precious time debating this issue..go do a mitzvah and make someone smile. And if u have a problem with a rabbi then dont watch something hes talking in, but this uproar is not at all needed. .LET IT GO ALREADY.Alot of the Holy tanya is all about being bitul and humbel...it seems that many are acting in an opposite manner by feeling like THEY have been so hurt THEY are so mortified AND they will not alow someone to treat them and THEIR community in such a disrespectful way.Sounds like there is alot of you in all of these things..maybe stop picking at another persons obvious human flaws and look at your own.This is truely galus if this is what people are really thinking is important.MAKE THE REBBE PROUD..AND MOSHIACH NOW!
(7/30/2009 12:59:01 AM)
150
My response to 135, 136 & 138
To 135:

You should read my remarks with a little heart and sensitivity. If you lack that precious gift, you can go with MERCHO CEFULO. BTW, do you come with a name?

To 136:

FUN DIR SHPROTST CHOCHMO. How about you, do you come with a name?


To 138:

Im in CH, BH just had my 5th. His name is Moshe Zalmen. If you didnt hear from me in a while, I should say DITTO. Would love to hear from you, thats if I know who you are.

Easy fast

Dovi Minkowicz

Ps: to 135 & 136: I think it was kept quite simple this time. Wouldnt want to put you through a challenge of reading with complex TROP. Try MAPACH PASHTO for this one, should work.
(7/30/2009 2:41:21 AM)
151
to 88
and you are...?
(7/30/2009 3:09:47 AM)
152
Not the first time
Rabbi Orlofsky has engaged in malicious talk against others too, also with an utterly inadequate apology. See http://www.zootorah.com/controversy/orlofsky.html
(7/30/2009 3:25:42 AM)
153
Yankel
As a neutral person, my question is - is there anyy truth to rabbi orlofsky's original comments?

No one has discussed that
(7/30/2009 3:49:42 AM)
154
a bit of normalcy
there is no one who can accept this mans appoligy
firstly he never said that he doesn't hold of what he said
secondly what he said was recorded and publicised so he needs to go and publicly apologise to every one and every place and there is no individual or group or community that can except him may there only be true ahavas yisroel especially in these times
(7/30/2009 4:24:44 AM)
155
Rabbi Minkowicz
I don't give my name not because I have a problem with it, but because I am a member of anash that lives in the Orei Hasodeh and there are KA"H several Shlucim here whom I don't want to identify by my comments. I don't want my comments in any way misinterpreted as anything but the opinions of an individual member of anash. If you can post your email address I will contact you privately. As for using time properly, the Torah takes very seriously the time, effort and money of a Jew. Where I live, I have seen that the Chabad Shluchim and anash here treat Rabbis and members of other shuls (There are three other frum shuls: Sefardic, OU and Aish as well as several other non-frum denominations) with anything but the greatest of respect. For years, the "Rabbi" of one of the shuls (take a wild guess which one) has been friendly to the Chabad Rabbis to their faces, but has been spewing the worst kind of lies and vitriol to his people as well as anyone within earshot, as long as no one from Chabad is around. This is not only about Orlofsky, but where they get their lies to spread about Chabad. This "rabbi's" lies have caused direct monetary losses to the Chabad Shluchim (which if you want can be philosophised away). But there is more importantly the loss of mikuravim from Chabad. I personally advised a mekurav to (for personal reasons) move to the shul with the above mentioned "Rabbi". I thought (this was several years ago before I knew better) that he was a mench, on good terms with everyone. Wrong. I found out that he himself as well as his nochshleppers spread: "Chabad meat is treif" (This is intended to destroy the hashgochos of the Chabad Rabbis, which takes away parnossoh), "The Chabad Mikvas are Posul" (All the children of the people who use the Mikvas are R"L...), "The Chabad nusach is wrong" (I can't even explain this one.), "We don't fold our taleisim under, we fold them over" (What exactly is the difference? In halacha?), vekoheino rabos. Never mind the leitzonus. And this is not stam a Hashoroh, this is fact corroborated by many witnesses. Now, this "rabbi" brought out a kollel. Instead of learning and teaching Torah, they are shutfim with this rosho in his maaseh soton. Since I am a member of anash and a baal esek (although I also give shiurim), I don't find it a waste of time at all to take down these losers. Remember, why are they doing this? Ein odom choteh velo lo. The answer is Zei hoben nisht vos tzu farkoifen. They can't actually find anyone new to be mekareiv, so they try to steal our mekuravim with lies, rechilus and motzei Shem Ra. We sweat blood and tears into finding and bringing back people to yiddishkeit (although they tell you that "Chabad doesn't represent mainstream judaism" whatever that is) and to Chassidus. Certainly you remember the video of the Rosh Yeshiva from Eretz Yisroel (Kahane? Kahaneman?) Who came for dollars and told the Rebbe "Ich hob gehert geferleche zachen....men shloft nisht in sukkah". The Rebbe spent about 15 minutes of his valuable time letting this Rosh Yeshiva know exactly what the story was B'Rochel Bitcho Haketanoh. The Rebbe did not mince words and he knew very well Iggeres Hakodesh Kotointi. Might there be a lesson there for us in similar circumstances? I certainly think so. (BTW, About 12 years ago, I personally was approached by a talmid of CC who showed me a copied page from Alter Rebbes Shulchan Oruch with two words erased that implied that the Psak was not to sleep in a Sukkah. The next day I showed him the actual shulchan oruch that the psak is one should sleep in a sukkah. Ouch, boy was he embarrassed. Proabably,I was malbin ponov and now it's my fault. This is but one example of the lies (not even half truths and innuendos) Ad heichan hadvorim magiyim.) Maybe, if this wasn't a matter of straight out lies and motzei shem ra, nu, your point is well taken. But from my perspective, anyone who stood by the Rebbe and knows the truth is MECHUYAV to make whatever machooh (Mi sheyesh beyodo limchos....vedal) is needed to set these reshoim straight. And if not them, then the people they spread their lies to and to show everyone that they are liars and oiver on many issurim deoiraisa. If they don't want to do Teshuva (which is their choice) at least innocents should know what they are and what they are trying to do. This certainly extends to "Rabbi" Orlofsky and the CCHF as well. Let them not have parnossoh for a while and see how they like it. The only reason that they keep doing this is that they are short term matzliach. But who says that we have to allow that if we can do something about it? So, it's not a waste of my time if I can help restore parnossoh to shluchim instead of to the s"m and bring yidden back and teach them love and truth instead of negativity and lies. The Shluchim may need to be more PC than me and I understand that perfectly. But I don't and I won't.
(7/30/2009 4:29:57 AM)
156
A Shliach
I think i represent a major Portion of Lubavitch who are more embarrased by the outcry than the venouous words from Rabbi Orlovski.

This whole reaction, took away our veniflinu, and made us look like a bunch of small minded people vos kenen zich nisht halten hecher. Like the kid in the playground who starts kicking and screaming every time someone says a little insult. Who cares what this guy said? Ribono Shel Olam!
(7/30/2009 5:04:37 AM)
157
Just a thought
I would like to be Morer that due to the enormous Shturem of this issue, it is more than likely that there are many non Anash visiting this site and are following the discussion. It is hence a good idea to keep the remarks respectful and to the point. We may obviously express our opinions, anguish and outrage but it would be far more effective to do so in a civil respectful manner. We should also take in to consideration that today is TB.
Y Kahanov
(7/30/2009 5:11:35 AM)
158
I know Rabbi O.
Dovid Orlofsky is a great teacher and speaker and I know that Michael Rothschild is wonderful person. On Tisha B'Av I don't want to further machlokes but to add a important point.
Dovid O. was a talmid of Rabbi H. Leibowitz, a"h, of Chofetz Chaim Yeshiva ( I don't think it's connected to the organization talked about here) in Queens. He was and his talmidim are rabidly anti-chabad. Individually, they will never insult a chabnik to his/her face. Middos and Mussar are stressed in the yeshiva. However, I once told a good friend that I would daven for her very sick husband at the Ohel -- I always did and I thought I would finally tell her. I love this women (I am a woman - we are closest of friends). She answered, "I'll have to ask the Rosh Yeshiva a sheilah first." This is the first time that I have heard a chofetz chaim musmach speak this way publicly.
(7/30/2009 5:55:06 AM)
159
A suggestion for CCHF
I have just read 155 the posts and the only other positive thing that could happen is the the CCHF should use a Lubavitcher next year for their Tisha' B'Av program.
By the way I have been a supporter of this event for many years and will now find out who is in their program before I continue to support them.
(7/30/2009 5:57:00 AM)
160
please help me understand
i am not lubavitch, but have many relatives that are. i am a chassid'ista, and our rebbe has much respect for Lubavitch.

i've heard many a negative comments about lubavitch and continue to belive, as i always have, that they are not true, and if yes, just true to a minority of lubavitchers.

it does bother me tremendously, that some of these comments here, slander and speak bad about 'misnagdim'. it is so ironic, one commenter wrote, that they are a 'uma shfeila'. others seem to believe that only lubavitchers are living according to the torah, and ALL others need 'kiruv' so they can learn the rebbes sichos and see the light.

the Besht did not only have one follower, there are many chassidusin, and ALL are correct. Why do i get that feeling that lubavitchers regard all others as 'second class jews' , 'misquided jews'....

about litvish and misnagdim. They are kosher and torah jews as well. just as there are some lubavitchers that make lubavitch look bad, so too, in every sect of Judiasm, there are good ppl, and those who are no good.

i started listening to the recordings col put up, but was too disquested to finish. however, there is always place to understand this on a rational level and not emotional only.

1- This Rabbi is saying what he heard, he did not make this up himself.
this is not an excuse, but just as there are lubavitchers who are taught to believe that the rest of the jewish world is misled and misnagdim are non-toradik, and litvish peolpe are misguided.......so too,there are those ppl who are taught that lubavitch are wrong...it goes both ways.


2- you think rabbi O should not speak at the CCHF.
NONE of you should be speaking either!!!!! these comments are pretty much the same way, NOT having ahavas chinam to ALL jews, no matter who they are.

i would love is someone could clarify these issues for me.
i mean, lubavitch is known for their ahavas yisroel, but it seems like it is reserved only for those who can potentially become lubavitch. and all the other jews- sephardim, other chassidim, litvish, misnagdim-- they are to be looked down on, PITIED, and a 'kiruv case' until they too become Lubavitch.

i hope i made myself clear, and hope you respond.
thank you!

(7/30/2009 6:02:35 AM)
161
Kol HaKavod
I'm glad he took it back and his apology should be accepted
(7/30/2009 6:33:21 AM)
162
To 154
I would like to clarify one thing; I am NOT a rabbi, just a simple Jew observing the local news. Last thing Id like to achieve is a mix up by one of the readers confusing me for a real Rabbi Minkowicz and portraying my words as his. Who knows what influence that might have on his life and Shlichus. As for your extended statement, you are preaching to the choir. My point was merely to focus on the ASEI TOV, which we have an abundance of.

Dovi Minkowicz

dovi@minkdiamonds.com
(7/30/2009 6:33:35 AM)
163
WE NEED TO EXPOSE "ORLOFSKYISM"
I cannot agree more with # 154. I myself suffer at the hands of this rotten and destructive element, who in public smile at you, but behind your back deride you and Chabad in the most nefarious of ways. Orlofsky is not a person its a breed.
The Orlofsys preach Shmiras Haloshon in public but in private are the biggest Baalei Loshon Harah, Richilus Motzaei Shem-Rah. They destroy lives, communities and often Yiddishkiet itself.
Many in Chabad are unaware as to what extent they embitter the lives of hard working Shluchim, many Shluchim dont even understand this.
Just about everything Orlovsky said on those infamous recordings has been said to innocent seekers of Yiddishkiet in our community, in many cases driving them away from Chabad and in some case from Yiddishkiet altogether. It would not surprise me if there were some secret seminar in which these dirty tactics are taught.
And they really think they are fooling the world. They hide behind the guise of Kiruv Rechokim but their greatest mission is undermining Chabad.
Its time for them to know that we got their number, its time for Orlovskyism to be exposed. Anyone who can say that this discussion is a waste of time or is not in the spirit of Chassidus, the Rebbe, or Lubavitch is clueless.
If we were to expose them more often, if we were to show them and the world that we know who they are and what they are about and hold them accountable, rather than leaving each Shliach to suffer in silence on his own at their brutal hands, we mightve been far ahead of the game by now.
(7/30/2009 6:57:31 AM)
164
Worse than original misnagdim
The original misnagdim would never issue an apology like Orlofsky's. Who apologizes for stating their beliefs? If Chabad is "dangerous" etc. as he claims, why apologize for saying it?

This is what makes the misnagdim of today so insidious. In public they smile and make like their good buddies -- eating our food when on vacation, using our shuls, mikvaots hashgachas etc. -- but as soon as we're out of earshot, the mocking and slander begins.

For shame. At least stick to your story.
(7/30/2009 6:58:48 AM)
165
Agree to #7
every word # 7 writes is correct and is just as it is. Listen here, I wasnt born yesterday and know that these are the facts, we must always remember not to waste our kochos on them and there treif rubbish "Hamisabeik im menuval mitnavel gam kein" as the alter rebbe says in tanya.
(7/30/2009 7:00:04 AM)
166
Response to 159
Thank you for your polite and measured words.
To find out what Lubavitch believes you can find out from Lubavitcher rabbonim or Rebbetzins. Please do not use the comments on this site -- many of which are written by children or otherwise "bored souls" --as your basis for what is Lubavitch philosophy.

I can assure you that if anything the Rebbe was MOST respectful and embracing of all forms of Orthodox Judaism. As he always told the Chasidishe Rebbes who visited him: "Yaarich yamim al mamlachto."
(7/30/2009 7:09:50 AM)
167
to 164
The only explanation is that they know the truth about Chabad and don't truly believe the lies they spread about us. And so when they're pushed into a corner, they back down, al derech: makkin oisoi ad she'yomar rotzeh ani (a Jew's desire to do Hashem's ratzon ultimately comes through).

This may explain Orlofslky's apology-non-apology and a positive spin on this whole episose, a limud zchus for him on this Tisha B'av day. Rabbi Kahanov's point is well taken.
(7/30/2009 7:14:25 AM)
168
Orlofskyism
I agree with 163. In my experience, those two-faced ones who smile to your face and then bad-mouth you behind your back do the same thing with other people they don't like, not just Lubavitch.

(7/30/2009 7:22:15 AM)
169
Dear Rabbi Orlofsky
Dear Reb Dovid,
(I am loath to call you rabbi since you don't deserve the title, but to get your attention i have done so.)
A Lubavicher fort is made of Ahavas Yisroel, so despite the fact that i agree with a lot of the anger that is posted above, i would like to take a different tack.

The video of the Rebbe showing on this site for Tisha b'av is about finding something good in Miriam bas Bilgah, so surely we can find a positive approach to all this.

So here it is:

Can we really blame you for your views? After all, this is what you learned from your Rebbe, Rabbi Leibovitz and a frum Jew goes by his Rov!

(7/30/2009 7:30:26 AM)
170
No Bigotry Please
Please dont lump us all together. I myself may be referred to as a Misnageid, but am utterly ashamed and appalled by the remarks of Rav Orlofsky Shlita.
I would like to see a MHchaah Borabbim from all the Gidolei Yisrael. If they are truly Gedolim, who are against Lashon Hara . . . then they ought to all come out with a public denouncement of this despicable conduct.
(7/30/2009 7:30:29 AM)
171
agree with 168
Actually, Orlofsky himself mocks Aish Hatorah on this tape and mimics the voice of Aish founder Rabbi Weinberg (when he mentions "five pleasures, etc" which was Rabbi Weinberg's big chidush), which is forbidden in the laws of loshon hara.
(7/30/2009 7:36:26 AM)
172
To #159
I understand your frustration, but you should know that just because one Lubavitcher says something, that doesn't mean that all of Lubavitch thinks that way. I personally don't agree with all of the loshon hora that is going on either. Disagreeing with Orlofsky and respectfully stating that he should stop speaking badly about Chabad is one thing; making unneccesary rude comments, either about him or about "all litvaks" is another thing. I truly don't think that most Lubavitchers think that all litvaks are bad, at least not the ones I know. We believe that chassidus is a very beautiful thing, even something that is necessary to the world, but it doesn't mean that every single person has to become a chossid, or else they are bad. The Rebbe was friendly with other rebbeim and never, to my knowledge, pushed them to become lubavitch.

To your point #1: I really don't know what his intentions are; I have no idea where he got any of these ideas from, but there is a big chance that you are right and he heard this from someone and just believed them. So what we should really be doing is proving him wrong and showing him how Lubavitchers are NOT what he is saying we are. (That doesn't mean we can't protest - we should protest, but we don't have to act disrespectfully towards him.)

To your point #2: Again, we don't have to be the same way as him, we should have ahavas yisroel and show him (and anyone else who might agree with him) that he is wrong and we are better than he says we are.

Bottom line is, there are always people who are going to call themselves lubavitch (or litvish, or frum, or Jewish) but not act like it. They DO NOT represent everyone. We all have things we need to work on. So don't judge all of Chabad by what a few people decided to post on collive.

Have an easy and meaningful rest of your fast!
(7/30/2009 7:51:43 AM)
173
To Rabbi Orlofsky
I am a Lubavither and I forgive you.
(7/30/2009 8:09:52 AM)
174
to 159 and 169
You ask, how can rabbi Orlofsky be blamed for just following his Rov. Don't we all follow our rabbanim?

I would say there is a big difference. Rabbi Orlofsky is himself a godol, as it says on the poster. He is therefore able to come to his own conclusions. There are examples of this in history: the Vilna Gaon put Chassidim in cherem (based on the kinds of slander that Orlofsky continues to perpetuate) but his own student, Rabbi Chaim of Volozhin undid the cherem and was in contact with chassidic Rebbes.

If Rabbi Orlofsky was a true ohev yisroel and yerei shamayim, he could find a "heter" to speak nicely about Chabad. He could find plenty of other gedolim, chasidish, litvish, sefardic, that embraced Chabad. When he comes to heaven and they ask, how could you have not degraded Chabad? He could answer: Rabbi Moshe Feinstein never did; the Chafetz Chaim never did; Rabbi Chaim Ozer never did; the Baba Sali never did; Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu never did; Rav Pam never did; the Chasidish Rebbes never did (except Satmar) etc. etc. etc. all of the above and many other gedolim in fact praised Chabad and spoke of the Rebbe in the highest terms!

So why do you have to follow the "gedolim" who sowed hate when you have plenty of gedolim to rely on -- "lismoch aleihen b'shaas ha'dchak"?
(7/30/2009 8:16:49 AM)
175
To R' Orlofsky and #173
I am a Lubavitcher and I don't have the power to forgive you. Ask the Rebbe for forgiveness, not us.
(7/30/2009 8:20:50 AM)
176
153 - GET OUT OF HERE!
u dont belong here! we are all steadfast chassidim of our dear rebbe.
get off collive
(7/30/2009 8:24:23 AM)
177
If he really means his appology then...
Let him give an entire lecture on the beauty of Chabad Lubavitch and the philosophy and post it publicly on all the website the other class were posted. Post in all places he is affiliated with.
(7/30/2009 8:58:39 AM)
178
What If
I was wondering, has anyone ever heard of a lecture or a class or anything of that nature held by a Chabad leader, teacher Rabbi, let alone Godol, if there is such a thing amongst Chassidim, whose nature and design is to bash, malign and degrade any group Jews.
If such a thing would happen and come to light (with recorded evidence) what would the Gdoilm, who are now ever so silent say or do, especially if their Rosh Yeshiva or Godol was the victim? I Would love to hear your opinion.
(7/30/2009 9:10:11 AM)
179
learn from Obama...
and get together over a beer! R. Orlofsky should do what Obama is doing with the police officer he said acted "stupidly"- get together with a capable, knowledgeable Chabad Rabbi, who can help him see who Chabad and the Rebbe really are, learn some chassidus, and help erase all this baseless prejudice against Chabad. And a trip to the Ohel would also help...
(7/30/2009 9:19:05 AM)
180
CCHF SUPPORTING PURE GARBAGE. WHY?
SHAME on this organization and all it's members for supporting the destruction of the bais hamikdosh by bringing so much hate to this world. (so hard to build so easy to destroy). your families are turning over on their graves. you had the power of stopping this big C'H. but simply choose not to. HOW CAN YOU DAVEN ?
(7/30/2009 9:21:24 AM)
181
This would be similar
His speech would be similar to a chabad person giving a formal lecture on how the misnagdim were the foundation of the haskalal and reform movement, that there was mass chillul shabbos amoungst their top talmidim in euroupe, that rav aaron kotler set policies for the feeding of bochrim in china during the was that led to shficas domim, or that rav hutner was the only frum yid to eat treifis when his plain was hijacked. The only differenc is that all the above stories are verifiable and all the stories he said are verifieblke as lies. and also we dont focus on those stories and would never say them ina lecture.

now that i got that off my chest, lets move on since it is fort tisha b'av
(7/30/2009 9:31:51 AM)
182
To 170
If you are so ashamed, put your money where your mouth is. YOU should complain to the CCHF! Maybe your voice would carry more weight than ours. We ARE biased...it was OUR Rebbe who was so disgustingly attacked. But if YOU were to complain to CCHF, get people to stop supporting them as hypocrites, then maybe attitudes will change.

I sent the CCHF an email (with my name & email address) saying if Rabbi Orlofsky remains on the program (remember, they had enough time to pull him & replace him with someone who is not a hypocrite & a hate-mongerer) I will do everything i can to reach out to CCHF supporters & urge them to withdraw their support.

Money talks. All their financial info is public knowledge through their charitable status (you can go online & look at the 990's for a start) & see which companies, government orgainzations (if applicable) foundations & individuals support their work in Shmiras Haloshen.

They probably never knew about Orlofsky to begin with. But once they did, it was incumbent upon them by virtue of their mission to pull this hypocrite from the program.

(7/30/2009 9:37:39 AM)
183
PLEASE !!!!!!!!
ok i dont believe this !!!!

its tisha bav and all u ppl can do is sit around typing comments about orlafsky -just 4get it!!!! that guy is a rambling man who likes having his say - u dont need to get all worked up about it !!!!! ignore him , hate him his words if thats what u want , and leave it !!!!

moshiach now !!!!
(7/30/2009 9:38:47 AM)
184
what's shmiras haloshon?
the problem is not just what orlovsky said (and once said can't be erased from the minds of those he said it to) but that he feels that much sinas chinom, regardless of his apology. his apology did not say i was wrong and mistaken with what i said just that he's sorry to have upset certain people by saying what he felt. so good ole chabad does what it does best and makes peace (and rightfully so) but that doesn't mean that the "rabbi" doesn't feel the same as before.
(7/30/2009 9:41:47 AM)
185
TO YANKEL
if you are wondering if there is any truth to orlovsky's trash, he proved it's validity by his so called apology. he did not even hedge and say that wasn't what he meant, or that it was misinterprited. nor that he doesn't really feel the way the words may have come across. the fact is he feels that way, but just like obama puts his foot in his mouth then fumbles to correct it so as to remain in power. i still remember the days when everyone ridiculed lubavitch for their "kiruv" work. for taking in "goyim" as they called people who were not yet frum. and all of a sudden they woke up and saw how succesful lubavitch was with making baalei t'shuvos of all these "goyim" and they all jumped on the bandwagon and conveniently forgot and keep forgeting to say thank you lubavitche and lubavitcher rebbe for giving us the backbone to do what you have been doing before it became the "in thing" to do.
(7/30/2009 10:00:37 AM)
186
# 160 - I'll help you understand
the only post that has the words 'uma shfeila' is YOURS, you phony.
(7/30/2009 10:06:09 AM)
187
What Rabbi Orlofsky Shilta Really Accomplished:
To trivialize CCHF. Nice work genius. Shomer Piv Uleshono Shomer Mitzoras Nafsho.
(7/30/2009 10:11:06 AM)
188
to #160...
To quote from your post:
"but just as there are lubavitchers who are taught that the rest of the jewish world is misled and misnagdim are non-toradik, and litvish peolpe are misguided.......so too,there are those ppl who are taught that lubavitch are wrong...it goes both ways."

My question to you is: What yeshiva did/do you go to that tells you this about Chabad? I don't know of any Chabad schools that teach people to think the way you have obviously been taught to think about Chabad.
(7/30/2009 10:28:40 AM)
189
Not his first time
Here's an apology he sent a few years ago to Rabbi Nosson Slifkin, after a nasty email about the latter was sent by the former:

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Someone is circulating a letter containing personal attacks against Nosson Slifkin purporting to represent me.
I have not authorized ANY letter to be distributed! I am working on a letter relating to this issue. That letter is NOT it. Please send this to whoever has a copy and ask them
not to distribute this letter.
I apologize to Nosson and his family for the hurt they must have suffered from this action.
Sincerely,
Dovid Orlofsky

De ja vu?

Now look at how Rabbi Slifkin responds to the apology, also de ja vu:

"Note that he does not retract the false slander in the letter. Note too that he does not express any regret for anything that he wrote, claiming that the hurt is from the actions of
the person who sent out the letter rather than from his own disgusting words. The apology itself is extraordinarily disingenuous:

I am working on a letter relating to this issue. That
letter is NOT it. This is false. That letter was indeed the letter he was working on! Many people understandably took this part of the apology to mean that Rabbi Orlofsky was not the author of the letter Torah Community Under Attack Again.

While there is, ingeniously, room for Rabbi Orlofsky to deny that he was trying to escape responsibility for authoring the letter, this is certainly how it reads."
(7/30/2009 10:29:24 AM)
190
father figure issue
Please do not take this guy's words seriously at all.

We are dealing here with a limited intelligence person. When such a person gains fans among young people, especially of the opposite gender, this goes to the head. The person starts making statements about things he knows nothing about, and a normal person would keep out of it knowing the limits of their intelligence.

But a celebrity does not always think rationally and talks in matters beyond his ken. This occurred with obama's "they acted stupidly" statement.

Once we are playing armchair kupp-doktor (on Tisha B'av noch!), I would say there is a father figure issue here. The slavish obsequiousness (thanks COL for the in-house spell-check!) to the "gedolim" and sticking his nose into anywhere he thinks he can get points by protecting the "gedolim" is symptomatic of a deep sense of unworthiness that he suffers from, which is usually caused during the younger years either because of lack of a father figure or a father that treats you like garbage.

This coupled with a penchant for nastiness and arrogance and you have what you have.
(7/30/2009 10:46:43 AM)
191
Don't blame cChf
There is nothing they could have done, since they send out the DVD's in advance and could not recall them. It is not a live show.

The best thing is to demand now that they put a Lubavitcher rabbi on there like Yossi Jacobson, the helikeh Rebbe of Kol Shmuel.
(7/30/2009 10:49:08 AM)
192
To # 160 - some history, and answers.
As I don't know you, and certainly not your background and situation, I will attempt to address the issues you raise, correct certain misconceptions, and thereby, hopefully, spread some light on this dark day.

1. The Besht had many students, some of whom continued to build Chassidic dynasties. Of the 'chassidusen' still in existence, most ultimately trace themselves to either the Maggid of Mezritch, or R' Nochum Chernobyler. Although there were (and are) pronounced philosophical differences between the Chabad and Chagass schools (Tanya / Meor Einayim etc.), it is an absolute falsehood to suggest that Chabad views other chassidussen as less legitimate. The tremendous respect accorded by the Lubavitcher Rebbe to all the different Rebbes and manhigim that he met with over the years is indisputable, and public knowledge. Likewise the Rebbe's continual urging that they publish whatever manuscripts they had, to perpetuate their forebears teachings. Does Chabad believe their way to be 'the best' ?
Obviously, or they'd be looking for another one. The same can surely be said of any group, and commitment to a 'derech' is a good - not bad- thing. To suggest that this then necessarily equals a denigration of other paths is absurd.

2. The Baal Shem Tov began teaching the chassidic way publicly around 1734. As this was only about 70 years after the Shabbetai Tzvi fiasco, and during the time of Jacob Frank's heresy, there was much suspicion and opposition to the BESHT and what were viewed as his 'new' ways. This led to various forms of persecution of the early chassidim, including 'cheromim' and the spreading of false and malicious rumors suggesting that the chassidim were not torah-observant Jews. This lasted for about forty years, until largely petering out in the early 1800's. By then, it was clear that chassidim were meticulously observant Jews, and that chasidism did not in any way undermine halachic observance. The venom spewed against Chabad today, of which Dovid Orlofsky is a prime example, is only about fifty years old. Certain groups within the frum community, insistent that only 'their' program to rebuild Torah after WW2 was legitimate, were apalled by the prospect of shlichus/mivtzoim/outreach, or, for that matter, anything else not in their proprietary program. Over the last thirty-or-so years, this rage has turned to fear, as it became clear that Chabad was succeeding. It has only been in the last 10-15 years, that the idea of 'kiruv' has gained any traction in the 'litvishe' yeshiva world, and even now, mostly as a legitimate charity. Today, it is more tolerated than anything else, with only a few 'gedolim' paying lip-service to the ideal, and the rest ignoring it. Although the late Rav Henoch Leibowitz was not part of the Aguda / Moetzes power structure, he often expressed strong criticism of Chabad and the Rebbe, especially the concept of shlichus. In fact, as told by many of his talmidim, he hated the Rebbe and may well be the source of much of his students' hate.
Now, into this very (scholastically mediocre) yeshiva arrives one Shaya Dovid Orlofsky. Orlofsky hung around Yeshivas Chofetz Chaim for a while, presumably soaking in the Rosh Yeshivas ahavas yisroel. Being a bit of a buffoon, and not more likely to make 'Godol' than any other graduate of CC, Orlofsky focused on learning other things, in particular soaking up the hate. The results of his hasmodo canbe heard in his brilliant divrei-torah.

3. So now you wonder, why can't Lubavitchers just 'let it go', and continue with their shlichus, outreach, and ahavas yisroel ? Well, the answer is, they can- and will. However, Dovid Orlofsky is a Jew too, and this creates further halachic obligations. When we see a Jew take action that will likely result in loss of his place in olam-habbo (as per the Rambam & SA), we are obligated to try and correct him. Likewise when one witnesses the slander of a talmid-chochom, halacha obligates us to protest. The slander of so many tzaddikim/talmidei-chachomim and their communities by Orlofsky dare not go unremarked. He says he's sorry, but then continues to lie in his 'apology'. Your attempt at rationalization doesn't make sense. Do you believe there has ever been a chassid of any type, who would teach a class that the Gr"a or R'Chaim were "immoral and had orgies"?!! How dare you suggest that this is somehow a 'problem with both sides'? As I mentioned earlier, even from the 'misnagdim', such talk has been gone for 200 years. Where did Orlofsky get this from, and what made him say it in a lecture about 'Different Jews' ?
How can we be sure it won't happen again -more discreetly next time ?
Who has the right to ignore such vile slander against the greatest tzaddikim ?

It is clear, that this issue needs to be resolved quickly, and with an emphasis on ahavas-yisroel and forgiveness. For this to happen, Dovid Orlofsky needs to post a public and detailed apology, as proscribed in hil. teshuva. He should also visit the Ohel with a minyan to beg forgiveness, as proscribed by the Shulchan-Aruch. Then, and only then, can he be forgiven and we can all move on. As the mishna says, there can be no sholom without emess -
Shaya Dovid Orlofsky, the ball is in your court.
(7/30/2009 10:53:33 AM)
193
to 192
well stated.
(7/30/2009 11:18:42 AM)
194
to my brothers and sisters
taereh chasidim and all jews from allover the world we have to make a machah on this person and all those that encourage him . and that's it we should not waste our time on this lets continue doing what we do with Chasidus because this is what someone with no chasidus can say
and to you David Orlofsky, you have a PeSUL you should go check your Tfillin
and on the day that you go check your Tfillin you should fast and hope your Tfillin are POSUL because a psul in your Tefillin can be corrected
(7/30/2009 11:24:40 AM)
195
Lubavitch stand up
its about time the world realizes that the so called kiruv organizations ohr samayach and aish are full of poison pushing people away from yiddishkite and its time for lubavitch to get up and publicize this to the entire jewish world they take all our mekurovim and poison them against Chabad lets stand up for our rights
(7/30/2009 11:46:57 AM)
196
dangerous people
orlofsky shach and kotler all got the same agenda hate and to try and pull people away from yahadus
(7/30/2009 11:58:14 AM)
197
to 181
I think that if there was a tape of you saying those things to a group of people in a laughing way then it would be inappropiate to reccomend you as the lubavitch representative that i am sure CC would like to introduce next year.
(7/30/2009 12:12:54 PM)
198
henoch libowits
Rabbi Libowits was a very nice man when i was growing up in rockaway on the beach he would be sitting on the beach near the boardwalk reading the tog morgen zhurnal and not allow us to go under the boardwalk because of broken glass.and we always wondered why he sat in back of the beach our friends told us he did not want to be in mixed swimming
(7/30/2009 12:51:25 PM)
199
To #153
The truth is there's no way to tell. All of it is hearsay and nothing is written down.

Our knowledge of great Tzaddikim makes us highly doubt that they 'curse each other out', particularly publicly, which is what makes this so ridiculous.

The fact that you can't prove it one way or the other makes his comments wishy-washy to begin with. The people he claims said the words can be asked if they said them though, that would clear up the whole thing.

Regardless, I think most of the Jewish world understands and sees what a giant and Gaon the Lubavitch Rebbe was. And if you learn some of his Chiddushim, Maamorim and Sichos, you must admit he was a Tzaddik.

My personal opinion is that this apology isn't enough. As you can see from over 100 comments here, many people are hurt. Even the ones begging for there to be peace, are doing so in hurt tones.

If Rabbi orlovsky wants Mechila, he should have written a letter in which thought had been put into.

To nitpick a bit:

He writes

"I am horrified that on Erev Tisha B'av, or on any day for that matter, there be should be the cause of strife for Klak Yisroel."

Fair enough, although not a good way to start an apology. It sounds like he's more horrified at the thought of his reputation than the actual Sinas Chinam this has caused.

"The words I said were said once, in answer to a question, to a class of 8 people."

Several problems with this. It is irrelevant. Chabad doesn't want excuses, they want his apology. The audio as people pointed out, clearly shows that it was not an answer to a question, and if someone asked something before the recording, then he goes out of his way to mock and belittle. Which makes this excuse a ridiculous one. It also makes people think he's lying - and if he lied about the answer to a question, then how are we to believe him when he says '8 people' (or for that matter, anything in his tirade)...

What he should have done was simply apologized without excuses (what excuse would justify his statements?) and retract what he said. Perhaps even praise what Chabad has done.

But it seems he has too much hatred in his heart to do that.
(7/30/2009 1:18:14 PM)
200
to 155 et al
Earlier this year I was in Chevron with R' Danny Cohen. While we were walking around, a group of kavayochol tourists but really anachists and rabble rousers from europe were walking with us. We overheard their comments about IDF murderers, land grabbing settlements, etc. I asked Danny why don't you talk to them.
He said that he used to argue with these groups and one day he realized that is not his shlichus and he should concentrate on the Rebbe's work.

I understand your pain and fustration. 3 of my close relatives on shlichus are being attacked by these people in their communities and it hurts. But we have to concentrate on our shlichus, be positive, and amol dar men geben a patch oich, but only ven men darf. It's not our way and in the long run, we will win out by following the Rebbe's way, V'haemes V'hasholom Aheivu.
(7/30/2009 2:45:38 PM)
201
shmaya
if his apology is sincere what took a few years to produce it ?!
after the big tumult in Toronto he didn't apologize .Only after it became international and athreat to his future did he apologize. Shame on him.
(7/30/2009 3:00:34 PM)
202
.
(7/30/2009 4:16:29 PM)
203
Shluchim Boycotting?
What is all this about shluchim boycotting or not boycotting this programme? What conceivable reason do shluchim have to carry this programme in the first place? Have we no Tisha Be'Av Torah of our own that we need to dring water from foreign wells?
(7/30/2009 4:22:39 PM)
(7/30/2009 4:51:11 PM)
205
moshiach now!
He's a tinok shenishba l'bain hamisnagdim. Be mature, and accept his apology (for whatever it's worth). Let's take a lesson from this whole event, and have ahavas chinam and speak only lashon tov about every Jew.
(7/30/2009 5:20:29 PM)
206
He's not the first...
There have been many before him...we just heard from another posek, shmutz on Lubavitch. So one feeds the next. Let's say our piece, and go further to bring Moshiach...
(7/30/2009 5:23:00 PM)
207
#202
Ein yeled beChabad medaber kacha. Hasinoh hee rak mimisnagdim komocho
(7/30/2009 6:37:26 PM)
208
Hey #202
Chabad AND Nosson Slifkin. Do you notice a pattern emerging here? Is there anyone else? Here are two examples of things that this shoiteh doesn't take responsibility for. Poshut a coward. Quoting him "I have always tried to follow my Rebbeim and be true to their views". So where did he get this cowardice, stabbing gedolei yisroel and entire communities in the back, smiling to their faces? Take a guess.
(7/30/2009 6:55:02 PM)
209
Halacha and halacha only!
There are Halachos pertaining to such an individual and what he's meant to do to correct his wrong doing and how the public and klal yisroel is meant to relate to him. In this context there is no room whatsoever for many of the remarks being made above, as to ahavas yisroel towards him, loshon harah against him, what would the rebbe say etc. etc, its erev tisha beav and all the rest, which plays no role in anyway when the shulchan aruch and poskim are clear on how this fellow should be treated. Just ask your orthodox rabbi who has no "negios" and is a talmid chacham (not a politician etc.) and follow accordingly!
(7/30/2009 6:56:48 PM)
210
to 202
1) Lamah attah medaber shekarim?

2) R' Orlovsky hu ish mevugar, v'al lo l'daber kimo yeled kattan bli sechel v'daat.
(7/30/2009 6:58:36 PM)
211
TO 186
please reread the last sentence of comment# 72.
maybe you don't understand yiddish, but i do.
(7/30/2009 10:35:23 PM)
212
TO 186
please reread the last sentence of comment# 72.
maybe you don't understand yiddish, but i do.
(7/30/2009 11:02:17 PM)
213
TO 188
you posted: "My question to you is: What yeshiva did/do you go to that tells you this about Chabad? I don't know of any Chabad schools that teach people to think the way you have obviously been taught to think about Chabad. "

i'm sorry if you did not read the beginning of my post, where i clearly wrote that i have great respect for Chabad.
the 'issues' i wrote about, were disturbing me, as i personally admire lubavitch a lot, but i have heard from others really negative views about lubavitchers. I don't believe them, but was hurt and bothered that others think this way. I therefore posted my feelings, hoping others can clarify and shed some light on the matter.
(7/30/2009 11:09:08 PM)
214
TO ALL WHO RESPONDED TO 160
i would like to thank you for responding to my comment with understanding and respect. It truly bothers me when there is machlokes and i appreciate your time and efforts, which helped me view the things that were disturbing me, in a more clear and true light.
May we be zoche to the coming of Moshiach, and the rebuilding of the Bais Hamikdash, Bekorov Mamash.
(7/30/2009 11:14:06 PM)
215
he doesnt get it
Orlo fsky does not understand that there were gdoilie yisrael in all generations we were critical of each other in the sharpest terms but did not cross a certain line and were even respectful of each other in public. He doesnt get - but what would you expect from a B"N who never learned chasidus.
(7/31/2009 7:03:49 AM)
216
To 211/212
I stand corrected. I missed it because it was spelled differently. Nobody has a right to call any group of holy Jews by that or any name. This goes for Orlofsky and his cronies too. BTW, it's hebrew not yiddish.
(7/31/2009 7:38:00 AM)
217
yichus
I spoke to someone who went to yeshiva with him and he told me that he was never taken seriously and that there were even some whispers about his yichus.
(7/31/2009 10:10:59 AM)
218
to 52
go to #1
(7/31/2009 11:16:34 AM)
219
a guten erev shabes
chevreh think about it we are shnai ohr 2 lights and he is
OhrLo' fsky
(7/31/2009 12:22:30 PM)
220
Question
Was his class aired?
(7/31/2009 12:25:44 PM)
221
wow
I just read this post and its numerous comments:

I wish to add that I cannot agree more with comment #163 and 164

To comment # 153 : Clearly you have very little understanding of Chabad and Chassidus. The reason why no one here is addressing or "shlugging up" what Orlofsky said is because it is so far from the truth that it is silly to counter argue. Its like an anti semite who says all Jews have horns and conspire to control the world etc. You don't argue with that , only express outrage , which is what most of these comments are doing. If you wish to find out nmore about Chabad, I suggest you speak to your local Chabad Shluchim.
(7/31/2009 11:10:52 PM)
222
PLEASE TAKE NOTE
A simple research of Rabbi Orlofsky's history will reveal his tendency to be untruthful, and scathingly critical on other Rabbis. (Also see link from 204)
I am not speaking loshon hora like this out of spite. Rather, I want everyone to be aware that Rabbi Orlofsky himself is not the most trustworthy individual.
(7/31/2009 11:43:41 PM)
223
To 48
After they realised what anger his speech provoked, they didn't publicise it on the other adds. The same thing happened in Australia.
(8/1/2009 2:14:21 AM)
224
Tanya
by hashgocha pratis the Tanya these days is K'tonti - when the Alter Rebbe was arrested and asked his Chassidim not to provoke the misnagdim and to be anshey shalom - even when the misnagdim had so wronged him and had informed on and maligned the Alter Rebbe, getting him arrested with a threat to his very life.
we have to know what is right and wrong - to notice when things are not kosher and to make a me'cha, but our job is mainly to be "day workers" to spread light where there is darkness. If this guy or anyone else speaks badly about our Rebbe, it is our cue to teach them b'ofen hamiskabel what is wrong with what they said and what is wrong with how they said it and to encourage them to learn the right way to think about and speak about our Rebbe.
getting upset and arrogant is not the way of chassidus.
we have a job to do - to teach people emes. every one of our thoughts, words and deeds should reflect this shlichus.
moshiach now!
(8/1/2009 3:10:17 AM)
225
Yaakov Krakow
A comment to several of the comments above: No one "has" to hold by their rav. Rosh Loikesh had 24 refutations for everything his Rebbe Reb Yochanan said, and Reb Yochanan lamented the lack of challenge when R"L died and actually reprimanded one of his disciples for trying to make him feel "better" by offering to reinforce his halachic opinoins. Soon, Reb Yochanan died himself. Everyone from genius down to simple-person is responsible for his own thoughts and conclusions. A person can't limit his/her thinking to what his/her parents or rabbi command him to think (whether you are chabad, litvish, sefardic, etc.) therefore, when a person does something wrong, blame THAT person only ... not his rav, not his parents, and not his disciples either. [above story from Bava Metzia daf 84 bottom of page]
(8/9/2009 3:52:57 PM)
226
what a shame
I am a Lubavitcher and I am upset about the machichism also. I don't think it is a kavod to our holy Rebbe to play G-d and say things we know nothing about.
Every group of Jews has some undesirables and we should only take pity on them. We should pray that they see the light which is the truth of Torah and not man made up.
Don't blame all of Lubavitch for the Machichisim. We are out there in no man's land helping all Jews and hoping that the mixed up Lubavitchers will stop the shtik soon.
When Rabbies of influence say hateful things it doesn't add to the uniyt of all the Jews.
(11/25/2009 2:26:04 PM)
227
not the first time
CCHF could have been more circumspect about their choice, based on his style of speaking against a strongly supported member of the Ramat Bet Shemesh community several years before.

Also I'm not so sure content is the issue - many object to the meshichist approach that exists within Lubavitch. But the vast majority have a speaking style that doesn't come across like this. It might also have to do with following the very specific rules of lashon hara l'toeles - the specific content matters as well.
(8/29/2010 3:20:17 AM)
228
Crocadile Tears Should Not Qualify A Speaker
Why does the apology only come under pressure? Why doesn't the Chofetz Chaim Foundation disqualify him? Obviously they feel that even this qualifies him more- If not, so they would remove him from speaking.
A proper authority on the subject should be one with at least a clean record of what he stands for himself (or is being asked to lecture on).

It is an insult that he is still being asked to speak
(10/22/2010 1:04:48 PM)
229
ohev shalom rodef shalom
Shalom 's never been easy to find and keep and save, and on the day before 9beav we should all have rah'manout, the same way Hakadosh Barouh' Hou has so many times over for his dear children, and with all the difficult situations in Israel, it will help tremendously to have ahavat h'inam and it would be a real effort along with tehilim and tefilot for our dear soldiers, and also for all Klal Israel in danger in many different places nowadays, not only in Eretz Israel, but all over the world ! So between our fellow jews, we always have to find in our hearts to accept a mech'ila, eventhough words can hurt more than anything, we have to try and give the benefit of doubt and believe in his sincere apology.... ad 120 , iyH it will be only neshamot, all our jewish neshamot, and it wont be important if they were born in lubavitch people, brisker followers, sefaradim or ashkenazim, israelis or h'outznikim....but did we use them at our best to do Avodat Hshem ? please open your hearts, and before this 9 be av, its not my words, its the one of a Gadol (may be Lubavitch, may be not !)," may this year be Teshouat Av instead of 9 be Av..." and im sure of one thing, we can only deserve it with a huge effort of maintaining shalom.... the name of Hshem !!!
(8/4/2014 6:56:52 AM)
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