By COLlive reporter
Constructing an Eruv for the Crown Heights Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn must be done with the consent of local rabbis, says Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba, the most senior member of the Crown Heights Beis Din (Badatz).
In a public letter issued on Thursday, 4 Iyar 5776, and sent to COLlive.com, Rabbi Osdoba writes: “The construction of an Eruv requires the expertise of a highly qualified Rov with experience (in construction of an Eruv) and endorsed by the Mara D’Asra.”
He warned that an Eruv which is built without these requirements, “the kashrus of the Eruv becomes highly questionable and can cause a serious breach in Shabbos observance, G-d forbid.”
His letter comes in response to recent discussions on COLlive.com exploring the possibilities and needs of constructing an Eruv in Crown Heights.
But a person close to the young residents who are promoting the idea admitted that initial work on an Eruv has already begun. “It’s 2 years in the works,” he said, asking to remain anonymous.
Rabbi Osdoba stated in his letter that “I was never approached by any Rabbi of the community or any other member with an official position in the community regarding the construction of an Eruv.”
His letter seems to be at odds with the scathing letter from the Rebbe‘s secretary Rabbi Leibel Groner who said the Rebbe “reiterated on several occasions that no one has permission to make an Eiruv here.”
But a source in Rabbi Osdoba’s office confirmed to COLlive.com that the option is not being ruled out. “Theoretically, it is possible – only if it’s done right,” he said. “It’s not simple and must be done correctly.”
The proposed Eruv for Crown Heights:
RELATED ARTICLES:
+ Rabbi Groner: Rebbe Opposed Eruv
+ Rabbi Levin: No Basis For Eruv
+ Why No Eruv in Crown Heights?
This article is disingenuous. Rabbi Osdaba’s letter is NOT at odds with Rav Groner’s and YOU are fomenting controversy for no reason at all.
Those who build a false eruv without rabbininc consent? They are leading people astray from Shabbos and mitzva observance! Better that they should join the Conservative movement where they really belong. But it’s not popular so they won’t. They worship only their own intellects. What happened to mesora which respects the rabbis of a community?
No the subway does not count it’s in a different reshus. You actually believe that one out of 4 people from the entire Brooklyn population (2,600,000) are traversing Eastern Parkway on any give day? Please stop this narshkeit. Moreover, they would need to traverse every part of the roadway in order for it to be classified as a reshus harabbim. The only time that there would be an issue would be the day of the parade, and even then it is doubtful that shishim ribo traverses any part of Easter Parkway. In any case, the SHulchan Aruch requires a daily… Read more »
#21 How can you say e.p. doen’t have shisim Ribuy? does the underground not count do all the cars the pedestrians not count How is utica Avenue not a reshus harabim the buses the pedestrian tarffic jammed alll day long Nosstrand Avenue as well E.p. the labor day west indian show off alone attracts well over a million people so how is that not shism ribuy? Yes it is surprising tHe Rabbonim are not taking a direct stand & seem to ne playing pc for now why we don’t know 7 we don’t know what is behind the scenes. I… Read more »
I wrote my article to start a conversation. There’s been a lot written, most of it just opinions with no sourcing so let’s focus on what we actually know. After much ado, here is what we know (versus what you may think or feel). HALACHICALLY Rabbi Osdoba seems to hold that it is halachically possible to erect an eruv here in Crown Heights. The other two members of the communities beis din seem to hold that there are serious complications but that it is possible (unclear from their letter) yet nothing can be done without their involvement. We have a… Read more »
That was exactly the Rebbe’s issue. Today it is irrelevant, there are eruvin in almost every community that contains a frum population.
only to hear the rav of their shul tell everyone that the eruv is not to be relied on. So either they are stuck in shul all shabbos or they disregard their own rav! That is what you get when you make an eruv that doesn’t have the support of any rav in the community
When we first went on shlichus, in the 1960’s, we asked the Rebbe about putting an eirev up in our city. The Rebbe said it was not a good idea, because ‘today people move around a lot and if they are used to carrying at home, they will
carry again without thinking and be mechalel shabbos.”
that is as close as i can remember.
That is the reason the Rebbe gave. Today, almost every frum community in the U.S. has an eruv, so perhaps that reason is no longer applicable? Just asking.
I think the “beginning of the end” is already long past. Awhile back I remember a post suggesting that the solution to a co-ed gym was to wear a very short skirt over leggings. Where did the idea come from that leggings are considered covering over the knees? They’re just tights without feet, to cover your knees you need a skirt or dress.
Your argument was made in BP and Williamsburg when they established the eruvin, and it turned out to be hevel. The only thing that changed was that grandparents get to see their eineklach and women can go to shul much easier on Shabbos. The fight against eruvin is misplaced and has no fundament whatsoever.
C’V to write such apikorsis. What does the eruv have to do with frumkeit. In any case, the frumkeit issue in CH preceded the eruv issue by many years.
poiresh midarchei tzibur is not a mitzva, it’s a big aveira and it is what these eruv people are doing!
The use of an eruv in CH is the “beginning of the end” for overall frumkeit in CH
How can people argue that there is an issue of a reshus harabbim in CH, when the Alter Rebbe maintained that one should not use a non-Jew to do malachah for them in a reshus harabbim on Shabbos. Consequentially, how is it that we allow, in CH, non-Jews to bring wheelchair bound people to shule, and to bring baby’s to their bris on Shabbos.
The answer to this is that those who claim that CH is a reshus harabbim are stating their own opinions and not that of the Alter Rebbe nor of the Rebbe either.
How could any of the rabbanim claim that the Rebbe was against establishing an eruv, when all of those who know the Rebbe’s mahalach (even when he had his own opinion), was to tell people that they should go ask a rav?
It won’t help you there will be an eruv, whether you like or not, and people will make use of it.
Again eruvin, a mitzvah, does not creat machlokas, only people do.
For the second time in a week, all three Rabonim agree on the same topic. Thank you eruv guys for making peace in Crown Heights. Please go find another controversial topic now.
Instead, just tell people that the eruv is not kosher. No supporters, no money, no eruv
An outsider won’t care if approving an eruv will create machlokes and split CH. It is not his neighborhood to worry about. This is their plan to destroy chabad
The only WARY you need to be is WHY anyone would NEED to go outside of the hood to ask a shaila etc vechulu…some of the responses here are so beyond naresh its mind boggeling.
I am glad R’Osdoba mixed in here.
my Rebba says no ! and no is no
badatz we have one Rebba
no is no
you want to carry move to five towns
or monsey bottom line
Reb moshe obm said not in the five boros
Many people in our community don’t realize that there has been a Chabad Park Slope eruv for many years. Its purpose was to enable Jewish families of Park Slope to visit the local parks with their baby carriages without being Mechala Shabbos. The Eruv extends into Northern Crown Heights (near Eastern Parkway & Nostrand Ave.) I have friends & family using that Eruv for years. The demographics of our community are drastically changing. Many families in our community are extending the borders of our community. Example: I have a family member living near Rogers Ave. Many of her neighbors are… Read more »
I am always wary of an “outside” Rav coming into an established neighborhood and giving a hechsher on a restaurant or other food establishment. I am wary of the people who have to go outside the community for their halachic guidance and stamp of approval and I am also wary of the “outsider” Rav who doesnt question the need for a community to seek an outside authority when many competent authorities are found in their own neighborhood.
Read the letter – not so hard to understand. He is saying that it needs A) someone with expertise and EXPERIENCE in building eruvin (something which no Rov in ch has, though this point is irrelevant because…) B) has to have the endorsement of the moro deasra of Ch (something which in theory could still happen)
Can you read? Rabb Osdoba said that eruvin requires an expert. He obviously means that one would need to be called in, and that his expertise is not enough.
I never said that that there shouldn’t be approval from a rav of the shchunah. However, there does not have to be an agreement between all the rabbanim, even one rav great or small is sufficient. Nowhere does it say that there has to be a unanimous decision regarding eruvin. Eruvin is just like any other inyan in halachah where all the rabbanim do what they perceive is correct.
Even if you’d be right that the rabbonim in ch don’t know eyruvin thourouly, and that there is a need for an expert, that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t need their approval! They are the rabbonim of the shchuna and they are the final authaurity here. Besides that rabbi osdoba and rabbi Braun are gaonim atzumim and who is to decide If they know or not??
If there is something they are not sure about, its up to them to ask bigger experts and then decide how to proceed.
Genius!
CH certainly has way bigger problems than to get into the minutiae if an Eruv is OK or not. But no, let’s focus on stupidity.
“Live, and let live”…the rest is commentary.
Eastern Parkway should be included in the Eruv. Many Jews live there and 770 is there for people who come from a distance and in summer weather it’s hard to walk to Shul with 5 layers on you and a hat if you’re a man. Total shvitz!
And an Eruv is not against Torah, so don’t confuse yourself.
Gotta pick your battles…and Lubavitch isn’t picking them well, hence the youth fallout we see today. Take your head out of the sand. It’s not pre-1994 anymore.
No the way to do it is to steal these apikorim’s thunder. Do as they did in Boro Park and Willamsburg, and establish multiple and even hidden eruvin. Oh, how our grandparents would have loved to do the same in the heim when the anti-Semites ripped their eruvin.
Rav Yoel Kahn allows people to carry in the Boro Park eruv, because it makes use of mechitzos. Rav Kahn declared that the Rebbe would allow that all can carry in such an eruv, because it is a Rambam eruv.
The eruv in CH is a Rambam eruv as well. Thus, there is no difference between BP and CH.
As I wrote it is not chutzpah to write that most rabbanim do not know hilchos eruvin, since it is a miktzoah and rabbanim don’t have to know all miktzoahs of halachah. You chose to disagree, so be it. However, you are extremely naive to believe that todays rabbanim know daled chelkei Shulchan Aruch. Moreover, I am not the first to have mentioned this. Rav Osdoba referred to this when he said, “The construction of an Eruv requires the expertise of a highly qualified Rov with experience (in construction of an Eruv.” I have either spoken to or heard from… Read more »
That won’t end well for you.
Thanks col for clarify my thoughts
I thought that an Eruv would be ok for people who want to use it
I think now that it wont be good
Question
Do Lubavitchers in Miami use the Eruv?
I see a parallel between our Dear Rebbe’s wishes that women should specifically wear a shaitel (& not a tichel), and his wishes that there be no public airuv.
ain lonu elah divrei ben amram!
At least we can carry there
Silly. So there are workaround apikorsm and anti-Semites who rip eruvin. They build hidden eruvin. Please don’t wast your time looking for them. Time would be better spent taking care of of your own issues.
Stop this narishkeit, you shoot an arrow then draw a circle around it? Who told you the Rebbe was against an eruv, prove it. The way you make it sound is that the Rebbe was more against eruvin than anything else. This is proof that what you claim in the Rebbe’s name is your own opinion not the Rebbe’s. There is no proof that the Rebbe opposed an eruv. Repeating a lie will not make it true.
Now people who used to complain about the tzfatim are going to be begging for them to come and take care of this Eruv every Friday at shekia
I will personally wait at the Eruv to have these vandals locked up. We can take other measures too. we can also fight dirty. A few broken noses, broken feet & hands. Trust me it won’t be worth it.
Don’t really care if a rav endorsed it or not…they wantvto carry regardless so that’s y he wasn’t approached – it really makes no difference- and if ur goes up it really doesn’t matter if one week it breaks- cuz they need to carry so what should they do
The eiruv will be put up, a text will go iut on erev shabbos that the eiruv is up. 5 minutes later someone will break the eiruv and send out a text that it isnt up. Some of the eiruv users will use it anyway because they didnt see the “its broken” text. So the eiruv users will call police and gather a group of “eiruv shomrim” with jackets and walkie talkies. They will vigilantly guard the eiruv and then catch someone breaking it. Theyll call the police and then be labeled mosrim. A court case will ensue as to… Read more »
it goes without saying that if they do it without the approval of our Rabonnim it wont have a good outcome,i dont want to start imagining the machlokes Cha”v
PLEASE BE SMART and dont due anything wuthout the approval of our Rabbonim
Oy, “we have lost our way” – Hashem Yerachem.
Leave CH and it’s shocking disregard for anything Lubavitch. You’ve got no future there. If you want your kids to grow up frum, with the rebbes brochos, move on shlichus. Move on shlichus and stay far away from these ‘anash’ who openly slap the rebbe in the face. Save your kids!
Once again, the title of this article is misleading Click-bate from the website.
Read the Ravs letter.
HoRav Osdoba IS the Mara Deasra and an amazing individual. His position on halacha should be adhered to, and his counsel sought on all halachic issues.
Hey #41, I am officially an antieruvist because of your comment. How can you against the Rav’s of Crown heights? Perhaps you should move to another neighborhood and keep shabbos there with an eruv. Don’t try to change what the Rebbe melech ha moshiach wanted and clearly expressed his opinions on.
A Lubavitcher is someone who stands to for the Rebbe’s wishes. No other definition.
According to you the Rebbe wasn’t a Lubavitcher:
He didn’t understand giving away land
He didn’t understand not respecting the Rabonim
He didn’t understand bringing a television in your house
He didn’t understand being on a Jewish boat on Shabbos
And the list goes on…
You have such a CHUTZPA to call US non Lubavitchers when you’re going AGAINST the Rebbe’s Rabonim, and against the Rebbe’s instructions. Basics liberal argument.
The rabbonim each write on each other that u cannot eat their own Hechsherim and that the others is no good so how can accept what they say. They each Pasul each other. they dont even talk together.
It says ומקרבן לתורה- bring them close to Torah, but don’t shlep the Torah standards down to them. Ahavas yisroel needs to be within the parameters of Torah too. About ahavas yisroel it says “ze Klal godol baTORAH”. Peopl can’t just go against Torah and then scream “ahavas yisroel- let me do what I want”
Let’s put it this way (without getting into if the Rebbe is for or against an Eiruv per se):
If before gimmel Tammuz someone would put up an Eiruv without the consent of the ELECTED Lubavitch Rabonim of CH, and instead under an anonymous out of town non Lubavitch rov, there would be a huge mecho’o from the Rebbe! The Rebbe would not tolerate such chutzpa!
If you don’t agree with me, then you have not learned any of the Sichos the Rebbe said about the importance of the LOCAL ELECTED Rabonim (whether you like their psak or not)!
Peace is really something we all need to work towards! What a lot of you who are screaming are not understanding is that CH has many people who do not consider themselves Lubavitch, and are not going to make their life decisions based on satisfying your definition of Lubavitch. Think about that for a few minutes, really. It’s silly to think that everyone will just conform. There are many kinds of people here, and the goal is to find ways to have shalom and actually build a community of different people, because unfortunately, CH is really not much of a… Read more »
You’re arrogant and bal chutzpa. Do you have the knowledge of hilchos eruvin and tested the ch rabbonim to see if they know it?
For better or worse, that’s the fact.
In every community.
Be in touch with them, and they will stay connected.
Alienate them, and suffer the consequences.
It is a choice to be made.
Practice the proven and winning Chabad House method.
One point not mentioned, at least in so many words, in this whole discussion, is that people who live outside the eruv could come to carry because they see other people (who live inside the eruv) carrying. I live in another city, there is an eruv where I live but some people from my shul live on the other side of it, and although if you asked them they would say they are shomer shabbos, I see them carrying. Besides the people who have posted that they currently live outside the lines shown on the eruv map, the neighborhood will… Read more »
Choshen Mishpat 26, 1
The Eiruv won’t stand a single Shabos. That’s a promise.
They couldn’t get a chabad rav from CH to approve this eruv. They couldn’t get a chabad rav from outside CH to approve this eruv. They couldn’t get a non chabad rav from CH to approve this eruv. They could only get a non chabad rav from outside CH!
To those who require proof that the Rebbe was against having an eiruv: the Rebbe spoke countless times about respecting our rabonim, and that their word is law in this shechunah. So if this eiruv is being done without consent from any of the local rabonim, it is against the Rebbe, period!
So a non chabad rabbi from another area is going to give the ok to something that will split apart crown heights? What next? hechsherim to places that serve cholov akum too?
All three rabonim are against the eruv, so it will be torn down by both “camps”. People will be willing to go to jail for this. Please do not waste your money on this foolish endeavor. The wish of the Rebbe and our Rabonim will prevail!
Let’s talk about Shiduchim, this whole eruv thing is out of line, the Rebbe said he doesn’t want it, why are you people so crazy to make such a change? You want your kids growing up not knowing that there is such a thing about not carrying outside on shabbos? I have seen people from places where they have an eruv and they carry where I live where there is no eruv, not even understanding that they can’t carry when I tell them, this is what you want?!! So let’s talk about the real issues in life, not some silly… Read more »
See, your comment itself indicates the source of the problem. You got a “no” from the local rabbanim, but rather than accept that – or even rather than trying to discuss it with them on the basis of sources that you think state the contrary – you simply dismiss their opinion as “childish.” See Sanhedrin 99b-100a for what Chazal have to say about that kind of talk; in short, it is a form of apikorsus. How, then, can anyone even think of relying on an eruv backed by someone with such opinions? Why, that’s not an eruv, but an erev… Read more »
Who remembers the first time someone had the chutzpah to open an eatery in CH and not use our local Badatz Hechsher?
First was bunch o bagels… Small uproar, basil, even smaller, Izzys non existent :(.
Stop pulling the Rabonim card when u want… They deserve respect at all times!
In our place there is an Eruv and they have to check it every Friday afternoon and send a message that is kosher
I am 200 % sure that people who believe that an Eruv is going against the Rebbe , every Friday mivtzoym is going to be to brake the Eruv
You don’t sound as a Lubavitcher
A Lubavitcher loves and understands every Jew
You don’t have to use the Eruv
Unfortunately you can’t bring this to the rabbonim in Ch because if one of them would agree , then the others are going to disagree and you promote another fight ,rl
solution : a knowledgeable irat shamym Rov from another community
are we thinking about he we want or what the aibishter wants?? are we thinking about bringing the geula every moment or trying to find heterim??
lets be proud chassidim!
Talmidim of Lakewood n.j. Are responsible for the eiruv
After we know that the Rebbe said about the eiruv in Melbourne, that it is a Takalah Ayumah ( a fearful obstacle – damaging ! ) , How are there comments supporting an eiruv ! The – More knowledgeable, more sensitive, more foresight, than the Rebbe ? ! Or is it that if we filibuster enough, we forget, the Rebbe, chas veshalom. I do respect Rabbi Osdoba, I don’t understand what he wrote. He didn’t detail, probably the details would explain. We hope the eiruv Rav will recognize the Rebbe’s concern , and consider hasagas gevul, and do the proper… Read more »
Let’s bring chalav akum milk to ch! Why pay more for Lubavitch chumros? Plenty of modern orthodox rabbis say it’s permitted. The rebbe never said we can’t have it in CH. It will help many woman and children. Please donate- http://www.reformjudaism.com.
Can someone please step up and solve the eiruv crises!!
The crises if I may say so is the very fact that pple are even considering building one against the rebbes wishes in his very community!
Well have to update the shidduch questionair now.
I happen to think that this is an important issue and shows a lot on a person if they can disregard the rebbes wishes, so its not too far off to ask it. But gotta give you credit your comment was prettty funny in such a heated fiery debate going on!
Lets divide CH peacefully into Pirushim, Sikarim and Biryonim… Sounds familiar.
Dear fellow chassidim,
Lets all take on ourselves one more mitzvah we will be careful about to bring Moshiach now! The world is so dark and full of suffering the only way to combat it and bring light to the world is by being a shining example of a chossid (a chossid is a lamplighter) and doing more goodness and kindness to make the world a better place (as the rebbe told cnn reporter).
Lets be strong and bring Moshiach and our Rebbe back to us with all our mitzvos together!
Moshiach Now!
Helem Vhester is that people think they can do what they want, how they want, when they want, where they want just bc the Rebbe is not physically here to stop them. SHAME ON ALL THOSE WHO CONSIDER THEMSELVES LUBAVITCH BUT HAVE NO SHAME TO DISREGARD AND OPENLY SUPPORT SOMETHING THAT WAS AGAINST THE REBBES WISHES! (Nevermind the fact that they are also bashing and disregarding Rabbonim too in the process just bc they wont say things that work around their selfish lives.)
How do you know that the rebbe did’nt say that?
(you are taking a big responsiblity to say that)
instead you should just say you dont care.
I thought we are lubavitcher chassidim! This eruv is being built without the ok of our rabbanim. A non lubavitcher rav is being used since our rabbanim won’t ok it! Is nothing going to be done to stop this? If you don’t listen to our rabbanim and prefer a non lubavitcher rav to shove a non approved eruv down everyone’s throat than why are you living in this shcunah? How can you go against the rebbe as he is against the eruv and he says follow rabbanim in charge and how can you call yourself lubavitch! Being a chosid is… Read more »
“A new question to ask dose your family hold by the eiruv or not”
I am a former CH resident. AD MOSI do we have to wait for the fighting to end.
I believe that most rabbanim don’t know hilchos eruvin. CH rabbanim are no different. It is not chutzpah to say so, because eruvin is a miktzoah. At best some rabbanim have a working knowledge in eruvin. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with importing a rav to give a hechsher on an eruv.
Theres a reason why the women have their role and the men have theirs. The men go shul and the women stay home when they can’t carry. The women don’t have the same obligations as the men. I just learnt a sicha today how we shouldn’t do whats permitted JUST BECAUSE its permitted!! HP! 🙂 BH not having an Eiruv didn’t do any harm. If anything it protects from potential harm of cv coming to do an Aveira and I’m sure going the extra mile is the way of a Chosid and is the Derech of Torah. If we didn’t… Read more »
Its enough that the Rebbe has to be embarrased at the way crown heights looks today with all the immodest woman walking around with no shame on kingston ave. Dont embarrass the Rebbe more by blatanly disregarding his wishes in regards to constructing an eruv in ch! R Groner was by the Rebbes side more than probably and other chossid was. If he is saying the Rebbe said no, then it means no! If pple think they can be smarter than the rebbe and decide what his opionion will change to (never mind that the rebbe doesnt change his opionion)… Read more »
Eruvinicks are going to have their Eruv. This a free country, You pay a modern orthodox rabbi talmid chochom, and he makes a kosher eruv. How many people starts Shabbos at 7 PM and make kiddush at day time? How many people eat cholov akum or Pas Akum? what’s the problem? they do everything al pi halacha, so too a kosher Modern Orthodox Eruv is al pi halacha Don’t be a Meshugene lunatic! You have to understand that there are different people with different opinions ,also al pi halacha How many shluchim or chassidim in CH don’t wear hats, or… Read more »
If the REBBE was against the eruv how could you make one its the rebbe shechuna ???????
Pple dont know the difference btwn right and wrong anymore, and not only that they use holy excuses to excuse their bad. But any on honest person wont fall for all this garbage! The Rebbe was clearly against it, and nothing of the Rebbes policies has changed since then except for that fact that Lubavitch is going down the drain ch”v!! Its not about you do what you wany and ill do what I want. This is the Rebbes schunah and we are going to protect its standards like the Rebbe set up. If you dont like it and wanna… Read more »
“People were carrying when the rebbes was here and the rebbe knew about that and surely knew about the future or crown heights too, yet still the rebbe never gave a clear answer about that. You might say Halacha allows it and we have this proof and that, but the point is missing, this is not a or halocho, this is about the rebbes shchunah, yes it may seem inconvenient, and you may say it’s crazy, and we maybe crazy too for that matter, but we are Chabad chassidim who live and breath above the letter of the law. ”… Read more »
Someone who doesnt bother reading the whole article with the actual letter R Osdoba wrote will think that hes giving his haskama for an eruv, when in actuality just read the letter and you will see he is in no way endorsing it at all. On the contrary his letter is very similar to the other 2 rabbanim stating that its very complicated and if done without permission of the mara dasara, then its asur and people using it are being mechalel shabbos rachmana litzlon. So far No respectable Rav has endorsed it which makes it completely not kosher!
“NO ERUV!!!! PLEASE RABBI CAN U IMAGINE WHAT CROWN HEIGHTS WOULD LOOK LIKE ON SHABBOS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? THIS IS TERRIBLE!!!”
To quote one of the rabbanim after being told this argument that an eruv will create problems (tznius etc.) in BP on Shabbos — he retorted what does that have to do with eruvin, its also an issue during the week. Do something about the weekdays, but don’t oppose eruvin because of this.
Would you oppose an eruv in a Chabad bungalow colony for the same reasons? Of course not. So please don’t use this false argument for CH.
People have to stop arguing that the eruv brings machlokas. That is simply a canard. People make machlokas, not mitzvos.
“There is a reason there was no writing eiruv till now! And people will grow up not knowing the concept of not carying and will be much more likely to forget when out of eiruv area. The Rebbe’s didn’t want it so it didnt go up and it should STAY THAT WAY!” There is no such halachah. As long as we have areas that are not enclosed by an eruv, we do not have to worry about tishtakch toras hotzaah. In any case, why don’t you make this argument with those rabbanim who have established eruvin in other cities? The… Read more »
Eruv goes down to the Hospital on Winthrop Street. I won’t go into specific boundaries for fear of the nutties out there. Hospital is included. Eruv links up to existing Park Slope Eruv. There is a competent Rov on Mevos Shitufin who is giving a Hechsher on this Eruv. He isn’t Lubavitch due to the controversy swirling around this topic amongst our circles. He is a competent Rov on this topic who has given a Hechser on Eruv in another large neighborhood in the Tri-State area. We tried the Rabonim in CH, but the answer was a childish no. Apparently… Read more »
An “Eiruv” that united all people in crown heights An Eiruv that has no “strings” attached to it… An Eiruv that literally “involves” all the rabonim together… An Eiruv that goes bey People were carrying when the rebbes was here and the rebbe knew about that and surely knew about the future or crown heights too, yet still the rebbe never gave a clear answer about that. You might say Halacha allows it and we have this proof and that, but the point is missing, this is not a or halocho, this is about the rebbes shchunah, yes it may… Read more »
This letter should only deter even more the ch eiruv, Just READ WHAT IT SAYS
“the construction of an Eiruv requires endorsement of the M’ARA DASRA, Otherwise its Kashrus becomes highly questionable..can cause a serious BREACH IN SHMIRAS SHABBOS CHAS VSHALOM!
Is that not sharp enough??????
NOT one mara dasra has endorsed it, so your left with the above sharp statement.
Lets guard Shmiras Shabbos by following Daas Torah of our rabonnim.
NO ERUV!!!! PLEASE RABBI CAN U IMAGINE WHAT CROWN HEIGHTS WOULD LOOK LIKE ON SHABBOS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? THIS IS TERRIBLE!!!
I told the rebbe at the ohel about the discussion on collive about the eruv. The very next day rabbi groner’s article came out in collive. Everything is hashgocha not coincidence! It’s interesting that those who want to go against the rebbe and make the eruv are not consulting the rabbaim in charge. That says it all!
Glad he mixed in – from the three I always held him to high esteem over the other two – I was wondering why he was NOT on that other letter, and suspected something was amiss, alas.
I live on Ocean Parkway, close to Boro Park. I’ll tell u exactly what will happen if the Eruv goes up (unless halachically endorsed by all relevant rabbanim.) “I hold from the Eiruv.” “I don’t.’ Members of the same family – shuls have signs posting forbidding carriages in the shul on Shabbos. Guest bring a bottle of wine to their hosts on Friday night, and the host replies, “Thank you so much, but we don’t accept the Eruv, so I cannot take your gift. So sorry.” I have seen and heard all the above since the ???Eiruv was constructed here.… Read more »
Choshen Mishpat 26, 1
There is a reason there was no writing eiruv till now! And people will grow up not knowing the concept of not carying and will be much more likely to forget when out of eiruv area. The Rebbe’s didn’t want it so it didnt go up and it should STAY THAT WAY!
i think if what i observed is correct ; it seems to run along atlantic avenue eastward until ralph avenue ; right on ralph avenue down ti winthrop with a small diversion onto one of the side streets; then it follows winthrop across utica till around the hospital where i couldnt see it continue. or i missed it or its replaced by the utility poles and suspended wires. at which point i had to continue with my other chores……woe is to the spirit of shabbos that we stand to lose.
If you live south of East New York, and east of New York Avenue YOU ARE NOT :IN THE ERUV
Lots of young couples llve in there who would want to be included in this hypothetical eruv!
Who chose these boundaries?
(-I currently live in a neighborhood with an eiruv, which is not al pi admur hazakein, and I don’t tell Lubavitchers or non-Lubavitchers whether they should hold by it or not unless they ask my personal opinion). The biggest issue here is that those who wanted to change the status quo – for legitimate, holy reasons – without asking mashpiim and rabonim. But why is that a big issue? One major side of it is that rabbonim are meant to bring peace to a community – “verav sholom banayich/bonayich” (unfortunately this is not always the case). For someone to come… Read more »
He was the rov who had the brains not to force us to use some fony filters for water. Him and Rabbi Heller stood their ground and they won the war!!!
Its no Kuntz to always say OSUR its a kuntz to help people when the torah gives leaway
Pirkei Avos teaches us ”עשה לך רב” which means you have to choose a rov and stick with him.
A rov isn’t meant to support YOUR position, rather for you to follow HIS position.
If we follow the rov who fits with our position at any given moment, constantly supporting a different rov, we have completely defeated the purpose for Rabonim.
P.S. the other Rabonim’s letter is almost of identical content as this one, just mistranslated.
if Mayor DiBlasio decides to erect telephone wires in a manner that happens to form a kosher Eruv, does he need to ask the Rabanim?
You know the second bais hamikdash was destroyed because of sinas chinum, and the third bais hamikdash will be rebuilt through ahavas chinum. The whole eiruv episode is causing fights and baseless hatred. Everyone knows that the true right thing is not to have an eiruv and that the alter rebbe was not for eiruvs. We as chassidim have a higher standard and should fo lifnim mishuras hadin. And through this we should greet moshiach speedily in our days.
The content of this letter does not match the headline. It just says that building an eiruv requires an expert. No one in this whole debate has brought a competent expert that even the best eiruv would help to allow carrying on the streets of crown heights.
They are looking to do it for Chabad “LIGHT” who seem to know it all and sterilizing for any Rov’s approval….
Who is the competent authority behind the Eruv? Why can’t his name be publicized?
Spot on. There isn’t enough popcorn in the entire universe to eat while watching this show…
Eastern Parkway is not an issue whatsoever. First of all, contrary to Rabbi Levin’s claim there is no shishim ribo traversing any part of the parkway. If the parkway has a din of sratya, As Rabbi Levin argues, then Rav Moshe maintains that it would need to have shishim ribo traversing every part of the roadway. [However, Rabb Levin is incorrect. Eastern Parkway does not have the din of a sratya at all, and is does not even have the halachos of derech hamelech. The parkway is not an intercity road, and doesn’t connect intercity roads. Today we use highways… Read more »
You say there are already people carrying in CH and this Eiruv will help them….
I hate to break it to you, but the people in CH that are already carrying are also lighting up cigarettes, texting and doing other things to be mechalel shabbos and there is no eiruv that can stop that…
Lets start educating the generation about the importance of shabbos, our obne day of rest to connect to G-d, the Rebbe, our family and our children… only that will save us from hell, nothing else.
Show them your support https://www.gofundme.com/23bxyqk
all these articles are going to the ohel, we will get the psak.
It seems like this is just getting started. In 10 years from now there will be eruvists and anti-aruvists. There will come a time when the eruvists will come to crown heights for tishrei and try to throw the anti-aruvists out of 770. A time when the aruvists and anti-aruvists will each have their own kinus hashluchim (Assuming we are all still frum. Being that the aruv was built without the input of the rabbomin and that’s apparently a threat to the whole religion).
I shall sit back and watch the show!
Finally thank you Rabbi osdoba What I don’t understand is why the committee has not asked him
The Rebbe would not be opposed to the current CH eruv. The Rebbe’s issue of an eruv possibly being ripped, could be averted. The current eruv can be erected inside of backup eruvin.
But why, then, is it not endorsed by (any of) the local rabonim?
the letter clearly says that that only an eiruv endorsed by the MORE DEASRA (i.e. R. Osdaba himself) can be kosher. he does not say that he has decided that it is Halachikly possible to build and eiruv or not. all he saying is that so far there is not discussion whatsoever
The three Rabonim: Rabbi Osdoba, Rabbi Shvei and Rabbi Braun are saying the same thing. They say that it needs the psak of the Mora Dasra and without it you can’t take it anywhere.
Many Jews living Utica area using the park every Shabbes , Jews living till Ralph already , pls include it !!!
all it says in the letter is that nothing shuld be done without a rov.
it’s not “at odds with the scathing letter from the Rebbe’s secretary Rabbi Leibel Groner who said the Rebbe “reiterated on several occasions that no one has permission to make an Eiruv here.”
i dont see anything in the letter leaning toward making an eiruv.
it’s the same idea as rabbi shvei and rabbi breun’s letter: dont do anything without the rabbonim
the eiruv is happening and a competent expert is working on it
The content of this letter does not match the headline. It just says that building an eiruv requires an expert. No one in this whole debate has brought a competent expert that even the best eiruv would help to allow carrying on the streets of crown heights.
Does that mean one has to have an official position in order to approach the Rov? The ones with official positions just tow the political line: “the rebbe said no so absolutely no”.
Making an eruv that excludes eastern parkway should be kosher according to everyone.
Finally a rov with common sense speaks up!
did or didn’t the Rebbe write if an eruv allowed????
Why is everything so mysterious
At least someone is being honest regarding the need for an eruv.