Mar 22, 2015
March Held to Support Agunahs

A contested march walked through Brooklyn streets to raise awareness of "agunahs" - Jewish women waiting to receive their "get" (Jewish divorce).

A contested march of approximately 75 people walked through Brooklyn streets to raise awareness of Jewish women waiting to receive their "get" (Jewish divorce).

Some criticized the timing and advance statements by march organizers that targeted specific individuals in the community instead of focusing on the broader cause.

While the speakers at the march called for change, it was not specified what change they were calling for, and how that would be implemented.

Some say Rabbinical courts have been dragging their feet on dealing with the issue of husbands (and wives) not granting timely divorces to their spouses.

Rabbical courts in the US and Israel have had a difficult time enforcing halachic rulings on get refusers.

This past year, a group of rabbis were arrested for kidnapping and torturing as many as 24 Orthodox Jewish men -- sometimes using a cattle prod -- to coerce them into granting their wives religious divorces.

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Opinions and Comments
ישראלי בהלם
אני יושב בארץ וממש לא מבין איך הקהילה נותנת לכזה דבר לקרות???
היכן הרבנים?
זו צניעות?
בטח הרבי היה ממש גאה בתוכן וצועדי המצעד
מ ז ו ע ז ע. . .
(3/22/2015 3:12:11 PM)
Now can we have a real march againts women for using their kids as a pawn in a divorce #unchainmybrother let the fathers see their children no man should get married without a pre nup how the custody of the children and finances will work
(3/22/2015 3:13:13 PM)
March together
It's a shame that more ppl didn't march Wish I lived in ch just to join!!!
(3/22/2015 3:13:42 PM)
"It's Not a Right - It's a Fight!"
"It's Not a Right - It's a Fight!"
(3/22/2015 3:16:48 PM)
Grade A Pritzus.
(3/22/2015 3:17:31 PM)
No thank you
Thank you all you Atheist and "open Orthodox" Wackjobs For telling us how live our religious life.
We very much appreciate you opening our eyes to the so called corruption of our Rabbonim, not sure how Judaism survived 3500 Years without you.
Please make sure the door doesnt hit you oin your way out
(3/22/2015 3:24:36 PM)
Agunah crisis
We need a few learned Rabbis to take upon themselves to solve the problem in an Halachic manner. Look at the Talmud's mercy that constantly used the phrase "For an Agunah the rabbis were lenient!"
Look at Rabbeinu Gershom: He disallowed marrying two wives and he also disallowed a woman to be forced into a divorce, even though the Torah itself seems to say its the man's choice. When will a great Rabbi in today's times come up with a strategy that doesn't give a man to refuse a Get even if he's been a creep. With all that learning someone needs to be able to figure out a way to remain within Halocha and not allow men to play a card they were given in bad faith.
(3/22/2015 3:26:50 PM)
The change they are asking for
Is that we become MO, and to endorse "Halachic" prenups - something that according to most Poskim (including the Rabonim of CH) can cause a Get to be POSSUL!!
[I wonder why they needed to travel to Australia to find one Chabad/MO Rav who would endorse them, and couldn't find one single Chabad Rov in the whole USA who would support them...]
(3/22/2015 3:27:18 PM)
Not frum
These people don't care about halacha
And look at the way they are dressed
(3/22/2015 3:30:11 PM)
just for GETT about it
Why did they March to Empire Blvd??
(3/22/2015 3:30:54 PM)
the first sign, yellow, first picture.
That first sign is a quote from mishnayis, crossed out and updated. Think about that.
(3/22/2015 3:37:14 PM)
Sorry for your Misery
But none of those people are from our neighborhood
why don't they confront their areas.
(3/22/2015 3:38:50 PM)
Curious as to why none off the woman were holding the new signs?
The ones that say
Give the children their cloths back"
(3/22/2015 3:38:58 PM)
rooting out a maamar chazal
סיג לחכמה שתיקה
truth is you have to know when to be quiet and when to speak up and this issue is the latter but you cannot write a sign that silence is poison in trashing a clear maamar chazal
(3/22/2015 3:43:54 PM)
If only these hot headed ppl with good intentions would stand back and think for a moment before they yell
(3/22/2015 3:46:29 PM)
(3/22/2015 3:52:40 PM)
So many outside people coming to protest in ch I wonder why
(3/22/2015 3:53:57 PM)
A march of losers.
The only people I see in the pictures, are a bunch of feminists, conservadox people from outside the neighborhood, and a handful of locals with an axe to grind. They made their agenda very clear. The Torah needs reform rachmono litzlan. The good news is that the vast majority of the residents of Crown Heights refused to take any part in this fight against the Torah. We definitely need Moshiach Now!
(3/22/2015 3:58:26 PM)
to comment 1
יעדער קאקער האט א לאקער
(3/22/2015 3:58:42 PM)
its a good cause to fight for
but this looks like a pitiful way to go...
(3/22/2015 4:06:14 PM)
Real rabbis respect women?!
A woman caught in the abusive web of a husband refusing to give a get has nothing to do with Rabbis not respecting women.
That sign alone shows what this march is really all about, not actually trying to help women tangibly, just trying to make a big ruckus against rabbonim with no tangible impact.
(3/22/2015 4:07:08 PM)
they do have some truth in it but they yelled in the street and women shldnt be yelling like that. Aside for that most of the people there weren't even frum they were going around in pants and that just let the non Jews another thing against us
(3/22/2015 4:10:58 PM)
Not the way of chassidim
There is no precedent for this kind of behavior in our community.
When the Rebbe wanted to accomplish real change to major world problems, he took valuable steps. The Rebbe never believed in this kind of public display.
This kind of lashing out might make you feel good, vindicated even, but won't actually make change.
Do something useful and please refrain from trying to secularism our streets.
There are other, more dignified ways than this to help agunas.
(3/22/2015 4:12:07 PM)
this is mostly people not from CH telling frum people how to act. get a life
Why do people who don't care of follow Halacha care about Halacha. It would be totally different, if some serious Torah committed people marched (and they should), but this march is sadly a bad joke.
(3/22/2015 4:20:17 PM)
A march against Yesomim!
Yes, agunahs are a real issue that is not going away. However this wasn't a march for agunahs it was a march against one man and rabbonim, check out this link to see the organizer of the march write it herself.
(3/22/2015 4:20:19 PM)
maybe learn some facts before making a raquet....whoever organized this march, should go to the army, maybe there some sense will be knocked into them. as of now they just causing problems because they are a bunch of sheep, following a silly leader...why dont they protest about shechita also and about bris......may god help
(3/22/2015 4:24:02 PM)
I'm a BT I have never seen a Frum woman on a crate shouting from a bull horn ... This is literally the most untzius thing ever!!
(3/22/2015 4:24:03 PM)
Thanks to the people behind this march who ( who for some odd reason weren't visibly there ) the Agunah crises is now the cause of losers and pot heads.

(3/22/2015 4:26:14 PM)
not practical
how will this make men give gets??????????????
(3/22/2015 4:26:22 PM)
we need to ask forgivness
We owed these people a Mitzvah Tank!!
(3/22/2015 4:27:28 PM)
How many of these people were from Crown Heights? I know some of them personally & they are not. What a disgrace.
(3/22/2015 4:33:39 PM)
This is a religious Chutzpa as well as a humanistic Chutzpa. These people don't care that they hurt children. As is well known the women abuse the Aguna card to set unfair conditions for the men.
(3/22/2015 4:34:04 PM)
Now What?
You have caused machlokes, hurt young innocent orphans and embarrassed a community. How have your goals been accomplished? No Rav answered your demand for a prenup, nobody is stepping down. Nothing but negativity from this affair. Now please go away while the grown ups clean up this mess...
(3/22/2015 4:38:11 PM)
the organizer of the event
I am confident that the organizer had the best interest at heart for the tragic agunah"s but quite sure that this march was totally ineffective for the agunah cause and detrimental to the kids who were forced to participate.
Its not about women, its not about Rabbanim its about individuals who have no respect for mankind be it women Rabbnim and men as well.
(3/22/2015 5:02:07 PM)
it's very unintelligent for both parties to have a prenup regarding custody. Mental illness can go unnoticed in many mairrages at first as well as unknown addictions at the time of marraige. Unfortunatly I know of this first hand and am doing everything to protect my kids from being placed in an unsafe situation. Using the Get as "leverage" has nothing to do with the facts of each individual case. If a woman can provre that the father is unstable and danger to the children, than let the facts speak for themselves.
(3/22/2015 5:26:37 PM)
for all those haters
haters will always hate but there are women out there who are suffering from their husbands not giving them gets!
(3/22/2015 5:26:46 PM)
my 2 cents
I think all Chabad websites, should stop posting these things...let them get the attention through facebook, not through collive...u are spreading their message to the broader public. you will still get tons of clicks, without posting this junk. I really like col, pls post more positive things like Simchos and chabad events. Thanks,
(3/22/2015 5:38:25 PM)
You are wrong
There were plenty of locals marching. If you want to label anyone you disagree with an outsider, that's a reflection on your principles. There are Chabad rabbonim who support the prenup, such as Rabbi Shusterman. Now you'll find a reason that he's not good enough...
(3/22/2015 5:48:18 PM)
few dozen people
I was driving by and BH i saw that only a small crowd came to this patethic hateful march....Sometimes truth does prevail...We Crown Heightsers saw this as a fraud vengeful act and we were smart to stay away....To watch a wannabe shout out of a bullhorn and make a fool out of herself...Kol Hakovod Crown Heights....We will love and help provide for these children and not have their displayed like dirty laundry....
(3/22/2015 5:48:40 PM)
We did it
It was a great event! We raised awareness! Another one IYH soon!
(3/22/2015 5:51:18 PM)
another one?
How many people will you have.....Thank G we're still smart enough to stay away
(3/22/2015 6:00:53 PM)
nothing accomplished
Just a bunch of yuppies, and off the derech that want to standout and rebel a bit, just to make a big show, lets not lose the focus and help everyone in these terrible situation
(3/22/2015 6:02:31 PM)
looking forward
looking forward to the next one
(3/22/2015 6:03:06 PM)
There is a way to do things..
Caring and awareness for Agunos is necessary and important. Doing what we can to help them is important. But this march is not the way frum Yidden do things. We've had our Torah for 3000 years there are always the "new and enlightened" in every generation that try "make things better" in a way that is not Al Pi Torah. To march with such a lack of Tznius and with shameful posters from one of the holiest places in the world is very disturbing.
(3/22/2015 6:06:01 PM)
This is not a place to fight and put down other jews!
did everyone hear about what happened to the sassoon family rachmona litzlan??? we need moshiach to come NOW and in order for that to happen we need to have ahavas chinam regardless of other jews interesting ideas. we cant let one more tragedy happen!!!! we need moshiach now!!! so let us all add in acts of goodness and kindness and have ahavas yisroel to every single jew we meet!! thank you!
(3/22/2015 6:11:50 PM)
Educate chassan and kala , kids about get
Education is a must in our community , speak to future chassan and kala that sometimes marriage will be in the end and it's better to end it asap then refuse the get ....
We have so many divorces in last years in CH and jewish orthodox life style is changed , men & women have more demands and look for better future for themselves , they don't want to leave in a painful /difficult /not healthy relationship as our grandmothers did ..... Educate your sons and daughters solve marriage problems and if it's not possible to give a get and look for a new better life ....
Both men & women who refise get live in a painful situation without any future , withholding their potential life with new family and withholding the future kids ....
Be wise and kind ..... Stop when it's ok to stop , compromise for yourself , your kids , be a mentch ....
Hope everyone who is waiting to get a Get will get it soon
(3/22/2015 6:12:47 PM)
I wish I can join
Too bad they muddled their message with ambiguous accusation

They really could have had a real impact
(3/22/2015 6:15:50 PM)
I'm so sorry I couldn't attend
I a ch woman , no not conservative MO as ppl posted , a typical Lubavitcher wished I was there (unfortunate wasn't around at the time)
I don't understand why ppl are quoting this is against Halacha when men are outrightly going against Halacha and denying their wife a get, making them suffer (isn't that a sin too)
Whether their intention is wrong or not is irrelevant!
They are the only ppl who actually stood up to tid and brought out an awareness .
If you really want it done the way you say that it should be done then start an awareness , build support for these women!!
No longer should they suffer in silence
Otherwise we are no different than our Arab enemies who have no respect for their women!!!!
Wishing everyone a speedy personal geula in this month of geula!
(3/22/2015 6:18:30 PM)
be honest with yourselves
this particular case that people are specifically posting about not with standing,theei truly is an agunah crisis. I spoke with the rebitzen of a renowned Lubaitcher rav on Shabbos and she said the rabonim aren't doing enough for agunas. I'm sure if these self righteous posters ever had a close someone or themselves in this situation,they'd feel differently.
(3/22/2015 6:26:09 PM)
Not tznius to be abusive either!
Seamed stockings or seamed minds? YOU decide.
(3/22/2015 6:35:16 PM)
חילול ה
Never been torahs way of dealing with things.
(3/22/2015 7:26:44 PM)
I was there
Typical ch woman. I went and am happy I did.
If I don't stand up for abused women, who will?
Proud to be a CH'er where we aren't afraid to expose the troubles within and demand change.
Nikeiva Tisovev Gever!
I stand up for abused women- where do you stand?
(3/22/2015 7:27:10 PM)
I am proud
I will comment here and say how proud of us I am. Too bad all the Chabad supporters from around the world couldn't be there today.
Change is coming. Let no man hold a wife against her will again.
(3/22/2015 7:32:56 PM)
Halachic prenup
There is a document that is crafted by a body of halachic experts; even among halachic experts there is difference of opinion on my issues. When I took kallah classes my kallah teacher was very clear about telling me and my choson about the prenup, she said we should look it up ourself, and that it is written by experts in halacha, and that it is our responsibility to decide if we want to ask a chabad rov about it. Basically she gave us all the information for us to make the right decision about the prenup (which we did, after my dad consulted a chabad rov who said he didn't want to advocate in public but that there is nothing halachically wrong with the prenup). I think my kallah teacher was right to make us aware of it, to make us understand how important it is, and to make it very clear t hat she is not endorsing it as a chabad teacher, and that we should ask our own rov.
This is exactly what must be done. People need to be educated and then decide the rov they want to guide them. It's not different from going someplace where there's an eruv, for example. It's your personal decision to ask the chabad rov or to go by the rov of the community. I think all kallah teachers should have this honesty to give us the information we need.
(3/22/2015 7:38:39 PM)
Stop using the Rebbe in this.
For all you enabling bashers, the reason the "outsiders" and non "tzniusdik" woman are the representers of this march is because you stand by and do nothing while abusive men carry on without repercussion of their acts from community members and leaders. You are what's wrong w society. I'd rather see elbows and knees than know that this community, in it's silence, supports gett refusers and the control of women.
(3/22/2015 7:43:27 PM)
There's a reason why most of those people don't look too chasidish.......
(3/22/2015 7:44:45 PM)
the first sign, yellow, first picture.
That first sign is a quote from mishnayis, crossed out and updated. Think about that.
(3/22/2015 7:55:16 PM)
It is sickening that some insiders and outsiders are dictating what is going on on our streets. where is the vaad hakohol! where are the rabbonim! איש הישר בעיניו יעשה! is this the behavior and issues our kids should be exposed to? tomorrow a group of lubavitcher (so they call themselves) will want to have a march/protest to support alternative lifestyles and based on the tznius level of our community and the yiras shomayim level who will stop them?! It is a shame on lubavitch that on the day of the Rebbe Rashab's yohrzeit instead of being examples of Neiros Lehoeir we are the example of CHOSHECH - the greatest darkness of golus.
(3/22/2015 7:55:39 PM)
To # 50
You said more in two lines then all the comments combined. Why when someone lacks Tznius (probably out of ignorance), vile hatred of a fellow yid is spewed? What a fascinating disconnect to how the Rebbeim behaved and taught.
(3/22/2015 7:59:30 PM)
Chassidim of the Rebbe, Please Let's Show Kindness
The march was a terribly misguided attempt, and the indifference to the humiliation this caused the children, distrubing. The idea of passing judgment on an individual in this manner is unacceptable. Chessed, lovingkindness and taking care not to judge another and not to humiliate him or her in public, were simply trashed by this march.
At the same time, the comments that I'm reading here, calling people names, judging them by the way they dress or labeling them as outsiders, is also antithetical to our values of ahavas yisroel and acceptance. Please, it's good to disagree and even dissuade others from participating in an event that has caused innocent children pain. The organizers admitted to some people that this was about revenge . . . and that it's "too bad" that the children will suffer . . . so by all means, this should have been objected to.) But let's stick to the issues and not become nasty. Let's model kindness and respect, in the spirit of the Rebbe, and learn from the Rebbe how to express disagreement, b'darchei noam.
(3/22/2015 8:36:35 PM)
what a shame
I think no one is disputing that there IS an agunah crisis. Had this been done differently, there would have been so much more community support.
(3/22/2015 8:45:48 PM)
to number 54
I don't know which Rov told you this, but the position of most respected (non MO) Poskim (including Rav Eliyahsiv) is that a Get given because of a prenup is invalid. meaning - if the woman who received such a Get would later get married - her children may possible be mamzeirim.

As the Gemoro says - anyone not thoroughly versed in the laws of Gittin, should not deal with them!
(3/22/2015 8:56:22 PM)
I am so proud of this march! I would like to organize one in my community as well. Let it be known that NO community will stand for abuse! Enough is enough!!
(3/22/2015 9:04:17 PM)
is it true?
That the crowd stopped on president and kingston for a photo shoot with signs that read "stop hurting the chickens" this was they were able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
(3/22/2015 9:04:23 PM)
New Neighborhood
A lot of these marchers looked like the yuppie/hipster types that moved into our neighborhood. They are doing this because they hate religion, period, and the concept of authority. While I do sympathize with women trapped in abusive marriages, I don't think that allying with these kind of people is a good idea.
(3/22/2015 9:05:04 PM)
We must have had the same kallah teacher - the most wonderful teacher ever! (She would kill me if I used her name, but those of you who know her, you know who I'm talking about).
She met with my choson and me also and told us about it. She told us the same thing, that it's written bythe RCA whose a responsible respectable halachic organization and although not all Chabad rabbonim endorse it, many do even if not publicly. At least two shluchim who I know use it all the time, and the rov we asked also said there's no problem with it. Why the Chabad rovs don't want to make a public statement endorsing it is because some of them disagree with the wording, but others say it's fine. So educate yourself and ask your own rov if you want to. The best thing my kallah teacher did for us was to tell us about it, otherwise we wouldn't know. In fact my chosen said when he heard about it he used to think it was just a MO document, and didn't even realize that it has very big halachic rabbinic endorsing it.
Read it yourself on the website of Bais Din of America or google halachic prenup and you'll find it.
I wish all kallah teachers would be so wise.
Thank you Mrs. S.
(3/22/2015 9:32:17 PM)
A prominent Chabad rov. I cannot disclose his name because he didn't say I could. This is not the forum to discuss whether or not its valid; that is for experts to discuss. And the RCA is not exactly a 'light' halachic organization, even if youdo n't agree with all their piskei din!
(3/22/2015 9:34:54 PM)
A woman who is dying and wants one
thing to have a gett and die in Peace deserves that.

(3/22/2015 9:38:56 PM)
#39 spot on
39 u said it spot on!
(3/22/2015 9:54:38 PM)
never ever ever saw
I never saw so many losers in one place in a long tome
(3/22/2015 9:59:56 PM)
It's anazing! Nevua has returned!
Otherwise, how else would such comments about how frum people are who marched beable to be made?

But seriously, although I'm dubious on how much marching is going to accomplish, I'm finding it a little obnoxious to be reading people make blatant assumptions about the marchers' frumkeit and what they're trying to achieve. Last I checked, there is no nevuah and I don't think anyone can say what these peoples' motivations were.
(3/22/2015 10:10:00 PM)
Crown Heights
The things said in these comments are more shameful than the march that is being so ridiculed .
As a Crown Heights woman I proudly walked alongside quite a number of co Crown Heighters . We of all people should think again before commenting about outsiders in pants . Where is the line that is drawn when we invite and welcome outsiders in pants and when they are shunned .
Today we were one . All together standing for what the Rabbanim should be doing without so called outside help .

(3/22/2015 10:12:36 PM)
Most of those claiming to be agunos today are those who make demands and when they aren't met they cry out. They're witches not agunos let that be clear!! (Of course there are exceptions)
(3/22/2015 10:15:55 PM)
only good
may Hashem not judge these people the same way these idiots judge others. each person should put themselves in his place and imagine what he would do and each women should be thankful for a man that is willing to stand by her through the worst times! its wrong to use the Rebbe, halacha or the agunah thing for this only people who are stupid and have something against him would do such a thing.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(3/22/2015 10:16:13 PM)
I"m so proud of the marchers - shame on all your judgemental commenters! you're spewing such nonsense..
May this serve as a wake up call for the community to take their heads out of the sand and to fight for Agunos!
(3/22/2015 10:22:48 PM)
A woman last wish
A woman's last wish was denied by a rabbi???
Isn't it a good reason to protest?
(3/22/2015 10:24:48 PM)
Oy vey
The people protesting, I know and interact with some of them in the same social circles and come from a similar background. College, divorce, masculine "women", and effeminate "men" are embraced as "reasonable". "Hip" is truly upside-down.

It seems elitist of them to impulsively push their righteous agenda suddenly on a community where - from my experience- marriages and families are dugmot and keeping Torah and Yiddishkite prospering.

Why don't they try speaking with the local leaders first instead of dumping their "We from our proper community know better than you do what is good for your community"?

Also on another level, it's easy to "advocate for divorce" - sounds bizarre just writing that - when a couple has no children, marry later after their career/status comes first, and don't have responsibilities to the kehillah that demand one go beyond their self to make their marriage work for a greater good.

It looks like everyone was having a feel-good time rooting for uprooting unions, staying immature, and burning ketubos c'v with their clothing - in the spirit of "liberation" and "revolution" from the "old ways". Napoleon would be proud.
(3/22/2015 10:28:50 PM)
Shame on you Crown Heights
Crown Heights can hide their face in shame today . Not because of a woman on a bullhorn But because of your own cowardice to face the ugly truth . Today we met Agunahs from our very midst suffering for many years alone.
Today they found people with courage and true compassion
for their plight .
(3/22/2015 10:31:11 PM)
why are they even posting
can't figure out why they would even post this on col.
Achdus it definitly doesn't bring.
Moshiach is the only solution!
(3/22/2015 10:33:38 PM)
BS"D there was so few people bc the rest sat home and wrote their negative idiotic comments to col. How could anyone berate a cause like this. Was not as professional as you like- at least they did something. Next time around you arrange it. They were all not from CH- how does that negate anything, I guess women shall be shackled bc the message came from a lady with a bull horn. The only bull is the comments bashing the march
(3/22/2015 10:33:38 PM)
why are we "marching?" can someone please explain to me?? Cuz, like, why aren't we raising money for these kids and families, helping them, showing them that we support them? why are we "marching?"
(3/22/2015 10:39:01 PM)
To #68
"A woman who is dying for a get", this is a Lubavitcher woman in the spirit of Tanya and Chassidus Chabad?

"Wants one thing"? How about that one thing be her ratzon to make the marriage work? And that she work on her self.

"Deserves"? Sounds like more "modern" talk/attitude. See posuk tes from the Rebbe's Yud Beis Pesukim
(3/22/2015 10:39:40 PM)
These Morons...
...are right.

The march of the hipsters have a point and something must be done, unfortunately I don't have the solution.
(3/22/2015 10:42:22 PM)
Judge and Jury all rolled into one
If you would have been there today you would have witnessed a wonderful Achdus of yidden coming together to support women and children that have no support from our community and from our leaders . There was no pritzus there . Only fervent hope that coming together would encourage hope strength and change .
So quick to judge but no show to and for a cause that could hit home at the blink of an eye .
(3/22/2015 10:48:36 PM)
Hashem yirachem
If you people are supposed to be the lamplighters, the beacons of ahavas yisrael, we are all in big trouble... What is Chabad supposed to be again? Lol... go Itta!!
(3/22/2015 10:51:06 PM)
March Madness
Has arrived to crown heights!
(3/22/2015 10:53:52 PM)
The get issue is a black and white issue. The man who refuses to grant, for whatever reason, is wrong no matter what.
(3/22/2015 10:55:04 PM)
To #73
how dare you speak this way??? i don't even understand how you can live with yourself. don't you have a heart???
(3/22/2015 11:01:22 PM)
Better idea
Instead, how about we have a "Make Our Marriages Work" protest?
(3/22/2015 11:01:28 PM)
wow this is crazy
shame on all you people shame on you protesting the real problem is women of Crown Heights that you don't know how to dress properly
(3/22/2015 11:04:47 PM)
By Horav Yosef Yeshaya Braun, shlita, member of the Badatz of Crown Heights.

#249 Prenuptial Agreements

There is a discussion amongst contemporary poskim regarding prenuptial agreements. Sometimes a husband and wife have irreconcilable differences, which unfortunately lead to divorce.
Numerous solutions have been proposed over the generations to address the agunah scenario that occurs when a recalcitrant husband declines to give his wife a get voluntarily. According to Jewish law, a divorce is valid only if the husband places a get in his wife's hands of his own free will. In the past the term agunah was used to describe a woman chained to a marriage, unable to remarry because her husband had vanished without a trace, and there was no evidence of his death.

In today's day and age a different problem exists: Sadly, there are women today who are suffering as mesurovos get, refused a get by their husbands even after a Beis Din has ruled that the husbands must give a get to their wives. This phenomenon is relatively new, as nowadays the religious courts are not empowered to take justice into their own hands, and the effects of social or religious sanctions imposed by any given Beis Din are severely limited. (Technically, there can also be men who are “chained” to their marriage, due to the decree of Rabbeinu Gershom that a woman cannot be divorced without her consent. Indeed, there are a considerable number of men who are in this sad predicament. However, in cases of extreme need, men have a way out: they can arrange for a heter meah rabbonim, permission from one hundred rabbis from three different countries to remarry. Women do not have this option.) It must be emphasized that a man who withholds a get from his wife after being ordered by a Beis Din to give one, is in violation of very many Torah commandments and is considered a rashah.

There are countless sayings of Chazal as well as specific halachos attesting to the fact that our sages were extra diligent in attempting to assist Jewish women, agunos in particular. Of course, if in a particular situation the Torah rules that an agunah may not remarry, we are unable to change the law of the Torah in order to accommodate her in her plight; indeed any attempt to change Torah laws in any matter is foolish and borders on heresy. Many ideas promulgated by various activists and popularized on social media to an undiscerning audience, while perhaps done with the most noble of intentions, are absolutely unacceptable and have been condemned by virtually all gedolei Yisrael.

One form of prenuptial agreement under consideration, widely publicized in the USA, is an agreement where the future husband and wife both sign, prior to being halachically married, that if down the line for whatever reason they no longer have a shared common residence, the husband obligates himself to pay the wife a certain amount of money per day─as long as they remain married according to Jewish law. Since these conditions will be very difficult for him to fulfill, by signing this agreement the husband will, so-to-speak, be "compelled" to give his wife a divorce should she want one. While these efforts are very commendable and could help resolve the plight of many women, it must be ascertained that such a prenuptial agreement is according to halachah (aside from other theological and social considerations which need to be evaluated independently). There are various opinions about this matter which are beyond the scope of this brief article. Aside for the fact that the agreement has to be a valid one, it can have serious repercussions in the future as to the legitimacy of the get, since according to halachah the husband must give it of his free will, and not be “compelled” to do so. It is important to emphasize that any solution to this issue requires the full agreement of many gedolei hahora'ah after thoroughly having investigated all the issues.

The Rebbe warns that in our generation which is plagued by the "sickness" of publicity, where everyone has an opinion on everything, engaging in public discussion, even among Rabbanim, on this matter can pose a strong threat to the immutability of the Torah. This can lead to a situation where every individual, even those who have zero training in halachah─and are certainly far removed from knowledge in the intricacies of halachah relating to such a complex matter─will form their own halachic opinions how to "reform" and "adjust" the laws of the Torah in all the other 612 mitzvos, as well, in accordance with the current culture and weltanschauung. As is often in vogue lately, anyone who can be more creative in devising a heter becomes the leading voice. Thus, this subject is best left to the domain of seasoned Torah leaders.

Due to the complex and sensitive nature of the laws of gitin, it's very unlikely that any innovation would ever legitimately change the halachic dynamics, where the husband can have leverage with regard to the get. Many suggestions which have been floated are halachically unsound, and any change would provide a dangerous precedent for those who wish to find fault with halachah. Just as living a Torah lifestyle can be challenging in many ways, but we believe that it's for our own good, albeit beyond our comprehension; we must recognize that the same applies to the structure of gitin, even the aspects that may seem 'unfair'. Our focus should rather be on creating an environment where it's a given that it's absolutely unacceptable to withhold a get after a Beis Din has ruled that the husband grant it, and on mediating marital disputes to ensure that smaller conflicts don't escalate into lifelong vendettas.

(3/22/2015 11:06:38 PM)
Lets say things the way they are this march was a dirty shakedown tactic against a Shul and their Rabbi by aledging all types of things and not any proof.

The Unchain have zero following besides 25 yuppies in pants.
And they are destroying the fathers life trying to rob him of his kids in a Goyisher court wich is a Issur Dioraysa. We must make a real march against this and call for proper justice.
(3/22/2015 11:08:03 PM)
Nitzar Lishoncha
So many " looks like " and " seems like " . Had you come you would have been part of what "is ".
At the very least if nothing nice to say dont .All in the name of protecting and shielding the comments are more harmful than anything that took place today .
(3/22/2015 11:10:52 PM)
"Tati let Mommy go"? "Get =Life"?
How backwards is this?

C'v what child wishes this?
(3/22/2015 11:16:41 PM)
Kol hakavod
The rebbe Maharash went out of his way countless times for the agunos whose husbands refused to give a get and ran away. Iyh all those women in our community who are waiting for a get will receive one . It's hard to stand up for what's right kol hakavod. There will be naysayers but how many frum yidden protested when lubavitch started putting teffilin on non frum Jews . Let's do everything in our power to help agunos!!
(3/22/2015 11:20:18 PM)
I am interested in this cause and I think it is very important. I have one question. Why did they not march to the office of the Rabbonim? Is it not the Beis Din they are quoted to have a problem with. Why has a dialogue not been opened between these marchers and the Rabbonim?
(3/22/2015 11:20:37 PM)
The atrocious comments is exactly why a march like today's was needed.
(3/22/2015 11:24:29 PM)
I gotta say you are the spiffiest looking one there. You look the part. So happy and confident in your skin. Hatzlacha in all your endeavors!
(3/22/2015 11:37:04 PM)
brocha b
I see some of you have taken an active role in the “Unchain my sister” group on facebook. I am glad to see people support change. I am not glad to see people support spewed hatred and brazen lies. If you believe those who claim the children are their number one priority perhaps you can ask them why they are withholding the childrens clothing and belongings and instead of returning them they hold them? Should children not be given their belongings? The children have asked for them repeatedly and have been denied. Why are yesomim crying over their unreturned belongings?
(3/22/2015 11:39:51 PM)
I agree with #37!
Please heed
(3/22/2015 11:54:18 PM)
Opposite to all religious feeling
A bunch of fools, the marchers, the commentators, myself, and everyone I know.
The bottom line is, that for anyone that is religious, it's absolutely forbidden to try and effect a religious act through marches, protests, comments, and any other way where the change is not being advocated from a purely religious standpoint. How much more so when those protesting are not religious scholars, or extra pious individuals. This is applicable to any religion where wer"e talking about the word of G-d, how much more so by Judaism where every act is dictated by Hashem, how much more so by Chassidim.
(3/22/2015 11:54:51 PM)
This arguing and judgement about who is right or wrong, who is frum and who is not, it is causing terrible pain amongst klal yisrael. Today 7 of our most precious neshamas were laid to rest, people want to know why. Nobody knows why except Hashem, but I know bitter fighting and judgement is not bringing mashiach any faster. Please have ahavas yisrael and stop the fighting and name calling!
(3/22/2015 11:56:43 PM)
Older Children need a father - per halocha
Not Chained. Want a gett give up the older children to the father -as per halocha.

You didn't win the lottery, you got divorced.

Collect the cesuvah and move on.

NY favors the mother: Free lawyer. BS accusations. Get 1/2 of all assets you didn't work for. Gets the kids but H gets all the bills.

You give the get = you dug your grave.
(3/22/2015 11:59:47 PM)
Sholom Ber Kleiner
If a couple are having marital problems they should seek professional help from a licensed therapist, an expert in the field.
If after a reasonable time their relationship does not improve, one or both parties may ask for a Gett and divorce; at that point neither side should refuse the requests.
Both should work with a Beth Din and the secular courts to make the process as painless as possible for themselves and their children.
In regard to the march through Crown Heights, I found it undignified in style and inappropriate in format.
I listened closely, there was a lot of emotional outbursts, somewhat disjointed invective flew and an undercurrent of innuendo cast at a few unnamed people bound.
Using a bullhorn reminded me of disruptive political rally.
It seemed that few Crown Heights residents participated, it was dominated by outsiders with various agenda, which were reflected in the different signs and placards.
As a person who grew up on university campuses, I was reminded of secular feminist agitation; something totally inappropriate in our Chabad community.
We believe in the Torah and Halachic process everything must dwell in that paradigm.
Many times Rabbonim put pressure on recalcitrant spouses to either give or receive a Gett , it can be a very complex process fraught with many problems, ultimately a Gett cannot be imposed.
Again, a Gett when desired by either the wife or husband should be given without drama.
(3/23/2015 12:07:48 AM)
Hashem Yishmor
The hatred coming from people who claim to be chassidish and frum. You think you are so frum, but Ahavas Yisroel you don't have. How can you when you don't care about Agunos?
Either you are abusers, or just nasty people. Either way, you should do Teshuva now.
(3/23/2015 12:15:19 AM)
With all do Respect
To Rabbi Braun: your letter should not be something on this forum. Everyone knows that the whole get situation is very complex halachically. That's why it took so many decades to formulate something that, according to some great halachic experts, is halachically acceptable and can be enforced by secular law. If you have a different opinion, you must also say that there are differences of opinion. You don't have the stature or the right to simply wave away the RCA rabbonim. Living with halacha means we know that very often poiskim disagree; please be open about t hat. Don't just give out a letter saying that if we're frum we have to just accept Torah - yes of course that is true, but we do know that there are many advances made in medicine and in tehcnology that are absolutely halachically sound, and some that have diffrences of opinion between poiskim. As a Lubavitcher rov I'm sue you don't use the eruv in Teaneck NJ, but would you give out a public statement that the eruv is not good and t hose who use it are mechaleli Shabbos?
Please be fair in your response. As one commenter said, her kallah teacher gave her the information and then told her it was up to her to reach out to her own rov.
This is not a forum for halachic experts; its a forum for laymen, so don't just make a simple statement in a very complex issue.
(3/23/2015 12:27:22 AM)
This was shameful and disgusting. The coverage is unwarranted. The stuff that they did to yesomim - they have to answer to Hashem.
The fact that they support gittin in cases where reconciliation is being sought, even if realistic offers of gittin after limited sessions are being made, shows how anti-Torah and anti-morality this is.
Rabbi Braun even referenced the serious halachic problems with pre-nups and how they can compromise the validity of the get, as Rabbi Elyashiv stated. There are many, many problems with them and one should speak with Rabbis Heller, Osdoba, Segal, Schwei or Braun about them.
This protest was shameful. It's time for the more modern element to stop dictating a very naive and harmful agenda.
(3/23/2015 1:02:54 AM)
To 106
I'm sure rabbi Braun did not post this on collive, someone else copied it from his Halacha of the day series.

(3/23/2015 1:19:49 AM)
to 106
Its hard to respect a comment like yours. Rabbi Braun did not post his opinion on this forum. Someone is copying Rabbi Brauns article from his own forum and posting it over here . Anything wrong with that? And why is he not entitled to disagree with the RCA? Only you are entitled to argue the Rabbi? And if as you say, that this forum is only for laymen, then you should not be giving halachic opinions, since its not the domain of laymen to offer halachic opinions. I guess you are from the left wing school of thought that says free speech is only for liberals, or for those that agree with your views.
(3/23/2015 1:24:24 AM)
To #106
Before you accuse a rov dont you realize he didnt post his opinion in these comments. You think he has nothin better to do than comment on collive. Someone else wrote a commant and posted something in his name...
The only thing I can say is we need moshiach right now to end such a bitter and dark golus filled with hate and lies!!
(3/23/2015 1:24:43 AM)
Fresser Rebbe says
this is all SO sad from the Gett go
(3/23/2015 1:34:09 AM)
#106 sophomore
Au contraire, the introduction of an intelligent, well crafted Rabbinic perspective on this complex matter is just what is needed.
(3/23/2015 2:25:47 AM)
If it were your daughter...
All of you who have such smart things to say don't really know the pain of an agunah. If it wee your daughter or sister, or your mother!!!! You would be out there too!! Awareness was raised. Rabbonim have lots of ability to help and I have witnessed how they opted out. YOU HAVE TO STAND UP FOR WHATS RIGHT! These spineless non get giving men need to be
ostracized and pressure needs to be put on rabbonim. Maybe these mothers are keeping their kids from psychotic ex husbands because they are abusers or dysfunctional. Don't any of you DARE judge! If a woman wants out-we need to help but if it's over its over!!
(3/23/2015 2:52:02 AM)
ארה״ב: לראשונה חרדיות יזמו ״צעדה לשחרור האשה״ (ynet)
מאות עגונות חרדיות דורשות סיוע רבני, במדינה שבה לבתי הדין אין כוח חוקי. בצעד ראשון מסוגו הן התאגדו ויצאו לצעדת מחאה: "מדובר במשבר גלובלי דתי, שזקוק לתשומת לב ולתיקון. הרבנים חייבים להתאחד ולמצוא פתרון אכיפה אחיד בתוך ההלכה. כל אחת - היא אחת יותר מדי"
טלי פרקש
עדכון אחרון: 23/03/2015 01:17

ח' רצתה דבר אחד: לעזוב את העולם כאישה חופשייה. אך גם המחלה הממארת שנגסה בה במהירות, לא ריככה את בעלה הסרבן, והיא נפטרה בראשית חודש מרץ כאישה נשואה. סיפורה הטרגי חושף את המציאות שבה חיות נשים רבות בקהילה החרדית בארצות הברית, שם המדינה כלל איננה מכירה בצורך בגט הדתי, ובתי הדין הרבניים של הקהילות המקומיות, אינם מצליחים להתמודד מול התופעה המתרחבת של בעלים מעגנים וסרבנים, ללא כל כלים חוקיים לטפל בתופעה.

קבוצת נשים חרדיות מתוך קהילת חב"ד המקומית שאליה השתייכה המנוחה, החליטו לעשות מעשה. לפני כשלושה חודשים הוקם דף פייסבוק בשם "שחררו את אחותי", לטובת קידום המוּדעות למצבן הייחודי של נשים עגונות בארצות הברית - ומציאת פתרונות למצוקתן. כ-2,400 נשים חברות בקבוצה הסגורה, אך הן עושות עבודה ויראלית מרשימה, ומפיצות את המסר כלפי חוץ.

אתמול (יום א') בצהריים (שעון ניו-יורק), הן יצאו לצעדת מחאה פומבית ראשונה מסוגה, בלב שכונת קראון הייטס החב"דית, אך כפסע מבניין 770 - מרכז חסידות חב"ד, נגד על מה שהן מגדירות, כ"התעלמות הרבנים והקהילה ממצבן הקשה". מאות נשים חרדיות עטויות שביסים ופאות, ולצדן גברים חובשי כיפה - נשאו שלטים שעליהם נכתב: "רבנים אמיתיים מכבדים נשים", "שחררו את אחותי" - ו"זה לא ריב, אלו זכויות נשים".

"שחרור את אחותי"
"טאטי, תן למאמי ללכת", הכרזה קורעת הלב נישאת בידיו של בחור חרדי, המתחנן בפני אביו לשחרר את אמו. היא מופיעה באחד מאין-ספור הסטטוסים המרגשים העולים בדף הפייסבוק "שחררו את אחותי".

זהו הצוהר החברתי למציאות הבלתי נתפסת שבה חיות נשים רבות בקהילה החרדית בארצות הברית.

נשים שבעליהן מסרבים לתת להן גט, ובניגוד למצבן בישראל - כאן ישנם כלים לבית הדין לפעול נגד סרבנים באמצעים של ענישה כלכלית וכליאה - הרי שבארה"ב, בהיעדר אמצעי אכיפה, הן נותרות ללא יכולת להשתחרר.

דבורה קסלר-רוטפרב, ממנהלות הדף ומארגנות המצעד, אומרת בשיחה ל-ynet כי הגיע הזמן שרבנים יבואו גם עם פתרונות. היא ציינה כי "הסכם קדם-נישואין" שאמור להוות עוגן משפטי במקרה שבו האישה לא תהיה מעוניינת בהמשך הנישואים, הוגדר על ידי רבני הקהילה כ"לא כשר הלכתית". לדבריה, "ישנם רבנים שהביעו תמיכה בהסכם שהצענו, אבל סירבו לפרסם את תמיכתם בפומבי. יש פחד".

המצעד שתכננו קסלר-רוטפרב וחברותיה, כלל עצרת תפילה ומחאה. המשתתפים אמרו פרקי תהילים לשחרורן של עגונות הקהילה, ונאמו בה עורכת הדין המטפלת בעגונות בארצות הברית, איטה ורדיגר-רוט יוזמת העצרת, ובן לאם עגונה מזה 12 שנה, שקרא לאביו לשחרר את אמו.

"הרבנים חייבים למנוע את הסבל שלנו"
טלי רויטמן, חברת הקבוצה, נמצאת כבר ארבע שנים תמימות במרוץ אחר הגט, והיא קוראת לחברותיה להצטרף למצעד תוך שהיא קובלת על ההליך הכואב והמטלטל שעובר עליה ועל חברותיה, בדרך אל החופש.

בדף הפייסבוק שלה כתבה רויטמן את המילים הבאות: "בואו נעשה את זה ברור לרבנים: לא משנה פוליטיקה דתית, מדובר במשבר עולמי גלובלי דתי, שזקוק לתשומת לב ולתיקון. הרבנים חייבים להתאחד ולמצוא פתרון אכיפה אחיד בתוך ההלכה, שימנע את הסבל והעינויים האלה.

"בקהילת קראון הייטס יש אישה המעוגנת כבר שלושים שנה. אחרת, אם לשישה, ביקשה גט עד נשימתה האחרונה. יש נשים רבות בתוך הבלגן המערכתי הזה, וכל אחת - היא אחת יותר מדי".

האישה שהפכה לסמל המאבק
אחותה של ח' פרסמה טור כואב על התעלמות הקהילה. בטור שהתפרסם באתר
חב"די מקומי מתחה האחות ביקורת על ההתנהלותה המקוממת, כדבריה, של קהילת חב"ד, שספגה שני מקרי מוות של הורים בפרק זמן זהה - אך טיפלה בכל אחד מהם באופן אחר ומפלה.

"משפחה אחת נעטפה בתמיכה קהילתית שלא תאומן", כתבה, "ואילו האחרת נזנחה ללא סיוע פיננסי, או חשוב מכך, סיוע רגשי. אני יודעת שישנן דעות שונות... אך הסתכלו על התוצאות: שישה ילדים נפלאים שנודו מהקהילה... בזמן שליבם נקרע לגזרים... מי עוזר להם בקניות? מי מסייע להם בניקיון, בישול, שיעורי בית, הכנות לפסח, קניות מזון, ביגוד, אוזן קשבת ואוהבת?" תוהה האחות המתייסרת.

קסלר-רוטפרב מספרת כי התגובה לא איחרה לבוא, וכללה התקפות אישיות על האחות מצד הקהילה המקומית, שהובילו, לדבריה, לעזיבתה את מקום עבודתה. "המקרה של ח' פשוט הכעיס אותי, ואחרי שביררתי את הפרטים לגבי הסיפור שלה, ואימתתי את העובדה שמעולם לא הוצע לה גט - הקמתי את דף הפייסבוק 'שחררו את אחותי' (Unchain My Sister)".

הפתרון, לפי הרב: להחרים את הסרבנים בכל הקהילות
קסלר-רוטפרב מציינת כי היא נמצאת בקשר מתמיד עם ארגוני נשים המטפלים בנושא, "כמו למשל 'אורה' (ארגון המסייע לעגונות ומסורבות גט בארצות הברית). אך בינתיים הרבנים דוחים פתרונות, ולא מציעים אחרים תחתיהם".

במכתב ששלחו חברות הקבוצה אל הרב שמעון ג'ייקובסון, היחיד בחב"ד שהסכים להתייחס בפומבי לסוגיה שהעלו נשות הקבוצה מולו, הן כתבו בין היתר: "נדמה כי השטיח אינו גדול דיו על מנת להסתיר את העגונות וסבלן... מי שמוחזקות כבנות ערובה בידי בעליהן סרבני הגט שמנצלים את כוחם להתעלל בנשותיהם". הן ביקשו לברר את דעתו של הרב בעניין הסכמי קדם-נישואין, וחתמו את מכתבן במילים "איננו רוצות עוד את הבושה וחילול ה' הגדול הזה בקהילתנו".

הרב, מצדו, טוען כי הוא אינו בקי מספיק בנושא הסכמי קדם-נישואין על מנת להכריע הלכתית, אך מוצא פתרון אחר, שלדבריו טמון בכוחם של הקהילות היהודיות, שלדבריו נדרשות להוקיע מקרבם את המעגנים והסרבנים, ולא לתת להם תמיכה או מקום.

"צריך ליצור מנגנון כלשהו של חילופי מידע בין הקהילות היהודיות בנוגע לבעלים הסרבנים", אמר. "וכאשר מגיע חבר חדש לבית הדין המקומי, באחריותו של בית הדין לברר האם הוא הופיע בפני בית דין אחר בעבר, ולמה הוא מסרב לתת גט". את הבעל המעגן כינה הרב ג'ייקובסון "נבל ברשות התורה".

"להיות בשקט ורק להגיד 'אנחנו לא יכולים לעשות כלום', זה מגוחך", פוסק הרב – ומוסיף: "רבנים חייבים לדבר בקול רם... זהו כבר חילול ה' גדול. אני אישית מכיר נשים שסיטואציה כזו גרמה להם לעזוב את דרך היהדות... בגלל שהן התייאשו מהגישה.

"אנחנו חייבים להגן על אנשים... לא ייתכן שהתורה, תורת חסד, תאפשר למישהו לפגוע בזולת. מלבד הנבלה שבזה, זה פשוט בלתי מתקבל על הדעת. לכל אחד שהוא סמכות תורנית או מנהיגותית, אני אומר: אנו חייבים לאחוז בתורה על ידי כך שאנו מראים שזה לא מתקבל על הדעת. תמצאו דרכים, יש לא מעט דרכים בתוך ההלכה שיכולים לנהל את המצב הזה כראוי... ואם נתגייס לכך כולנו, ולא ניתן לנושא להידחק הצידה - נוכל להציל עגונות".
פרסום ראשון: 22/03/2015 18:20
(3/23/2015 3:19:33 AM)
איפו הרבנים
הרבנים בשקט בגלל שהנועזים הם לא כמה פרוצים מבחוץ.מאחרוהים עומדים מאות משפחות בקהילותינו שמכירים בהזעוה שאוכלת בתוכנו כן אין מעצור זעקת הנרדפים הוא ביטוי לקול הולך ולא יוסף. הלכה וקדושה יתנער מתרדמתה ולא תתן עוד להחוטאים להסתתר תחתיה . התנערי מעפר ביחד ננקע כל האלימות והשחיתות שמסתתר במיוחד באצלי׳ של קדושה
(3/23/2015 4:23:37 AM)
ch resident
did not read the comments as this is very upsetting. I dont understand how whoever organized or joined this stupidity is not embarrased for this demonstration and do u not know what a chillul hashem u have caused? I know that this man didnt give a gett to his wife but right now what is the point of marching? Does it not bother u that u r embarrassing 6 orphans for this stupidity? This is ludicrous
(3/23/2015 5:46:55 AM)
Crazy comments
Only care about protesters level of tznius
(3/23/2015 5:48:43 AM)
Rain on parade...
Shame it didn't snow
(3/23/2015 5:50:20 AM)
I am surprised that no pictures were taken of the banners and sheets of oaktag that had messages on them regarding this so called prenup.
(3/23/2015 6:19:28 AM)
Support for agunas!
Many of you seem to be blissefully unaware at the fact that somenof these "marriages" contain a lot of abuse and domestic violence. Would you really suggest a wife (or husband!) should work on their marriage, instead of seek (and receive) a get??
(3/23/2015 6:52:58 AM)
to #107 with all do respect
Someone else posted his article.
(3/23/2015 7:16:27 AM)
ZERO Tolerance-ever!!
For any type of abuse!!! Stop judging -until you experience what being a chained women feels like!!
(3/23/2015 9:39:47 AM)
wise words...
"Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured."
(3/23/2015 9:57:40 AM)
Love this
This is a Jewish moment in time that evokes Selma.
We need to march and March again !!!
Change is coming the walls are falling and truth has spoken!
(3/23/2015 10:12:31 AM)
Response by Aliza Lichtenfeld
I am outraged by some of the comments I have read responding to the Agunot March article. However, I am far from surprised. For some odd reason, even though Chabad teaches to love every jew no matter who, these ''yuppie/hipster'' type never make the cut. And I understand that they could be irritating, and I understand their passion for useless protesting. As a traveling shlucha, I deal with these people quite often.
But in this case, are we dealing with a useless protest? Absolutely not! We must close our eyes to the way they are dressing and open our eyes to the issue at hand. If everyone is so worried about tzniut, why don't YOU work on this issue so the ''hipsters'' do not have to? I am therefore giving my respect to the hipsters for once.
Rav Ovadia Yosef, the former chief Rabbi of Israel was a major posek ha-dor who was very ''charif'' (as we say it here in Israel) about tzniut. After the tragic Yom Kippur war, he worked days and nights to ensure all the bodies of the soldiers were found in order to allow their widows to have the choice to re-marry. We should follow in the footsteps of this great Rav instead of ignoring the reason behind the marching footsteps of the ''hipsters.''
(3/23/2015 10:33:08 AM)
This may not be the way to do things but when people need help there's nobody around you talk to yourself there is are no rabbis Who care when someone finally does something everybody has an opinion to do it this way should be done that way everybody cares all of a sudden Unfortunately today if you want to get what you need this is the only way you got a screaming the streets or use the legal system sad to say
(3/23/2015 11:09:52 AM)
To #82
I beg you ( and anyone else who is an intellectually honest person ) to go on Kingston TODAY and buy a copy of Rabbi Twersky's book " Shame Born of Silence." He admits that he also couldn't believe for many years that a frum husband could be an abuser and describes how his understanding of the reality of Orthodox abuse came about. Please do not question any woman's "Chasidishkeit " or willingness to "work on herself" ever again until you have read this book. Do you really think that a woman wants to end a marriage with many children after many years because her perfect husband brought her the wrong color of flowers one erev Shabbos ? The psychological & physical torment that goes on behind closed doors is unspeakable. And just because a man has a long beard, shuckles so nicely in shul, and never misses his shiur does not mean he is a mench to his wife or his children. The mind has to rule over the heart - so you have a responsibility to educate yourselves before making all of these cruel comments.
(3/23/2015 11:25:47 AM)
Yes for Change
Lets join the "REFORM" movement
all we need is CHANGE. !!! CHANGE.!!
when you don't have any Yirat Shomayim YOU HAVE " CHANGE" !!!!

What a Chilul H-Shem bichlal
and Chilul Chabad Lubavitch Bifrat
(3/23/2015 12:05:29 PM)
the haters that bash this march are (mostly) the men who would/do refuse to give gets to their wives, and according to the amount of comments, there are a lot of them! it is not chassidishe to abuse a wife! Dressing in black and white doesnt make them chassidish, refusing a get doesnt make a chossid, and abusing a wife physically, emotionally is also not chassidish. so they have no right to talk about what tznius and whats not.

The people who came "dont look chassidish" because they are the only ones who have the guts to do it, and arent afraid to be bashed by closed minded haters, since the chassidish looking ones sit at home while they are afraid to be bashed. that doesnt mean they dont support or dont want change. hiding abuse under a rug doesnt solve the situation, but its convenient to some. these are the people who hate this march.

even the ones who theoretically sympathize with the pain of the agunos, dont do anything about it. that sympathy is not going to help anyone.

Yes, sometimes, like in many other cases both sides suffer so it is for the protection of the wife and the husband to get to agreement beforehand, so that neither of them can use the children against the other.

now what? The issue is on the surface now and it should not quite down until it is addressed.

Its not chilul Hashem when a people address radical issues and asking for a change to improve. this is a healthy approach and B'H some people took the initiative
(3/23/2015 12:08:10 PM)
Here we go again
To the "what if it was your daughter" nonsense, what if it was G-d forbid your son and these goons were fighting to prevent reconciliation for the sole reason that "if she wants a get then she needs a get." What if she was trying to rob the children of their father as the creeps who yelled and screamed in front of the Besht did. And yes, please attack Rabbi Braun for not recognizing an organization espousing what the Rebbe referred to as di neieh conservativ. Makes a lot of sense to ignite clear Shulchan Aruch and poskim in favor of them. And people who are or have gone through it know the importance of negotiation and reasoned discussion. No one's going to give up their parental rights because since third party bored people have a problem.
(3/23/2015 12:27:54 PM)
Yes we would - and thank you for showing the true nature of the beast.

Every marriage has had problems. Most go and smooth things over and work it out and all benefit. Some are bad marriages and then the man (men learn, sometimes if they're about to lose, sometimes from what they lost, but most learn) and they become good marriages. That's also why many second marriages work, the first ones would too if they were given a chance.

We're not talking about people who throw boiling pots of soup over each other. But to break up a family and to not encourage reasoned and proactive attempts at saving the marriage is an atrocity and is the worst suffering for children imaginable.
(3/23/2015 1:12:32 PM)
Thank you for bringing up the issue
Whether you agree with the timing or the manner, this issue is very real, and needs change and support.

If you're lucky enough to have avoided this issue, I'd suggest that you take the time to speak with a fellow Jew who has been through the process, you might see things differently.

I applaud you courageous women and men for bringing this topic to the forefront.

Caring Lubavitcher
(3/23/2015 1:44:20 PM)
An out of towner
I believe most people agree on this issue
For any people that feel they will sew positive attention to this issue by marching- then do so by all means.
That goes for any person of any community of any background.

I do however believe the sign "real rabbis respect women" is off topic and slanderous. Completely inappropriate to have in this march. I request the organizers do a more thorough job the next time this occurs.

All the best
Praying for a happy conclusion to all of these issues with the coming of MOSHIACH NOW
(3/23/2015 7:47:08 PM)
It's sad
Personally, I think it's sad that here is a need for such a march. Unfortunately, there is a need for one, and I'm glad that there was one.
Moshiach should come speedily where everyone and everything will be as clear as clean water!
(3/23/2015 8:24:14 PM)
criticism is like cuttng your own finger
If we are all part of one, lets show support to this important cause and help if we can.
(3/24/2015 5:05:46 AM)
judging a book by its cover
How shortsighted to write off the protesters as "hipsters from out of town".

Are the only Jews Lubavitcher chassidim?

Did the Rebbe not teach us to love all Jews?

Women from all walks of life- Jewish women- have rightfully championed the rights of the agunah. Why cloud the very real issue of men using their power over women?

There are good and decent Jewish women who do not wear seamed stockings and who have a different standard of tznius, but keep kashrut, shabbat and taharat hamishpacha. Are they not Jews who deserve to have their voices heard?

I am disgusted by some of the comments here. They are ignorant and show little compassion. The word feminist is thrown around like it is dirty... do we not respect women who are strong and do not let wrong kill their spirit?

Peaceful protest is a basic right in America. And like it or not, we are American Jews. Would you rather be in one of the many countries that do not allow women out on the street?

Moshiach is knocking on the door and we are not letting him in.
(3/24/2015 1:29:29 PM)
What's sickening
is how so many of you are jumping on these people, whose point was to march in order to raise awareness (mission accomplished, I think), about an issue that is incredibly important, overlooked, misunderstood, and abused.

If Rav Elyashiv is a daas yachid, and it is b'shaat hadchak, then we can overlook his opinion, considering that he is not OUR posek, and there are many others who support it.
(3/25/2015 1:05:41 PM)
Kids Rights Trump All
Bottom line: kids' rights trump all and that includes having BOTH parents in their lives. That needs to be assured first and foremost before ANYTHING else (including either parent having the right to remarry)....FULL STOP!!!!
(3/25/2015 4:25:35 PM)
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