By COLlive reporter
A blogger is calling on authorities to make arrests after the takeoff of a flight from New York to Israel was delayed because a frum Jewish male passenger refused to sit next to women on December 20.
Michael Luciano, Senior Editor at The Daily Banter website whose slogan is “Snark is what we do,” wrote an article titled “It’s Time To Arrest Ultra-Orthodox Jews Who Delay Flights Over Seating.”
“Refusing to take one’s seat and delaying a flight is absolutely interfering with the ability of crewmembers to perform their duties, not to mention a safety issue, disturbing the peace, and perhaps even a false imprisonment of crew and passengers,” he wrote.
“Because this keeps happening, at least some haredis have obviously not seen fit to take the steps necessary beforehand to ensure they’ll be able to have the seating arrangement they want.”
Luciano went on to say that “as a group” haredi Jews “disproportionately rely on welfare payments from the government so that they may spend their time doing the very practical business of studying the Torah all day.”
He said that “Like those who try to practice sharia in secular countries, these haredis need to be reminded that this is not their own personal theocracy where everyone else is expected to accommodate their strange, ignorant, and stupid — yes, I dare call them stupid — beliefs.”
He ended the article: “If they cannot or will not learn this, if they insist on delaying flights, or segregating city buses, or doing any number of things that are so grossly discriminatory, unruly, and a threat to public order and peace, then they should be arrested and charged just like any other unruly passenger would be.”
In the past, ignorance on the part of flight attendants has led flights in the U.S. to lock down the cockpit and issue a security alert to divert the flight after seeing a religious Jew with Tefillin.
In a ruling last year, Israel’s Chief Sephardic Rabbi Yitzchak Yosef said that praying in a minyan on an airplane is forbidden if it robs others passengers of their sleep or interferes with the duties of the flight crew.
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if one really cares about halalch make sure you reserve the window or isle seat. if it doesnt work halacha says place a sefer between…remeber a chilul hashem is worse, a chilul hashem yom kippur is not michapper…i agree with the auther…if one can waste someone else time and make a grave chilul hahshem get off the plane.
It doesn’t take much effort of mind and heart to complain, rant, and insult. I would suggest some of us take a moment to find respectful ways to address the issue. A few I can think of are: arrange a meeting with airline executives/HR and come up with a policy that takes care of it. (For example, write a succinct procedure including a general question asked to all customers as to whether they might have special considerations for seating arrangements. It would become a normal part of reserving a seat. Charge extra, if it compromises profit. Work it out.) or….Have… Read more »
I sit next to women BUT THIS IS A NASTY SERVICE
FROM OUR EL-AL ISRAEL AIRLINES it’s sad
To say BUT THE GUY HAS A RITE TO REFUSE
SITTING next to anybody for any reason…
& THEY SHOLD BE SUID FOR FORCING & DISRISPECTING ANY RELIGION.
about (i think) R. S.Z. Auerbach who was sitting on a bus in Jerusalem and then a secular immodest woman sat down right next to him. He did not move but stayed there. He then got off at the next stop and waited for the next bus. He later explained that he stayed sitting so as not to embarrass the woman. I believe the Rebbe would have agreed, and there is a saying, not sure where that one should sooner fall into a burning pit than embarrass another Jew or even a non Jew and make a Chilul Hashem. Having… Read more »
me too!!
I don’t think Jews should delay flights and then be upset with their seats it’s a huge chilul ה
The problem lies with thte airlines! They try to squeeze too many people into a confined space! I am short and thin, and I find the allotted space way too tiny for comfort. If there was sufficient room, it would be a different story.
I’m sure someone else can provide more details, but I’m pretty sure there’s a story with the Rebbe, that he stood for a whole (inter-city) train ride in order to not sit next to a woman.
Why are you so upset was any one else annoyed or you just wanted to watch. Don’t fool yourself and say that she shouldn’t have been looking people aren’t angels and she could have a struggle just like you.there is nothing wrong in asking she paid for the gym too. And if they don’t mind closing it then good for her and if the problem was that you wanted to watch tv then Thank hashem that he made it easy for you this time anf it was shut off precisely when you where at the gym ! Good luck staying… Read more »
Of course most of the article is incendiary and insulting. Nobody here agrees with most of it. What people are saying is that they agree with the sentiment re people making a fuss and refusing to be seated. And who are they saying this to? Other col readers, of course, so the rest is dismissed out of hand as anti-semitism, assuming (too generously) that everyone understands this. @16, there’s something mildly amusing about not wanting to sit next to someone because you might want to marry her. Just be a normal person. The issurim of chasnus is usually for social… Read more »
Assuming that story is true, the rebbe did not make a fuss, delay the train, and upset the woman by making her feel inferior.
Yes, but at least he didn’t embarrass her.
I would just like to remind col and its readers that th Rebbe once took an overnight train in Russia. After a woman sat down next to the Rebbe, he got up and stood in the open area between the carriages, in the freezing cold, because there were no more available seats.
Before agreeing to bash other frum yidden, let’s take a look at where we come from and whom we cherish.
I was at the gym and the TV was on, and the chasiedesh lady asked to turn it off. Why was is she looking in the first place if she dosnt wach TV ? Dont look then
I agree with his point but his racist and defamatory generalizations are irrelevant and unnecessary
unfortunately false accusations have been made against chareidi jews by woman who are sonei hadas and when tat happens the chillul hashem is greater because they tend to believe the accuser therefore the best thing to do is try to make the arrangements either when checking in or by the gate or asking in a polite manner a person with a similar seat as yours like a aisle seat holder for a aisle seat or window for a window to change seats (I was once sitting on a plane next to a woman and I fell asleep and my head… Read more »
The same way you believe he is an anti-Semite and therefore discriminatory to Jews, you are discriminating the entire gay and Muslim community; 15 million against aver 1 billion?
There is Zero about Tznius.
Reb Moshe Feinstein speaks at length about sitting next to woman on a Subway right next to her. The old Subways u actually sit almost touching he says there is NO PROBLEM and he says if you have a problem take out a sefer and learn and you will not have any problems.
This is not Tzinus this is a bucket load of Crap.
Reb Moshe was the Posek Achron in America for these kids of Questions
16 עם הנבחר #1 this guy is totally and completely a anti semite #2 there can be HUGE halachik problems with this (and I personally know someone who married a shigtza and it all started from the plain) #3 even if it wasn’t a problem you have to remember that we are the chosen ppl and ppl know that and therefore respect us #4 and mainly stick up for your nation have some גאון יעקב! (12/30/2014 9:55:14 PM) 1)That may be true but you have to learn from what everyone says, especially when it comes to something like this 2)… Read more »
For people who are supposed to set up the example the picture itself is a turn off
It depends if your just sitting next too a woman or in between two women. Sitting in between two women is asur al pi shulchan aruch. Sitting next to a woman is not. I am female myself and I try not to sit between two men. Its the same problem. Most people are reasonable if you are nice about it and dont make it obvious that the reason you want to switch is bc of the women/men.
only those seething beneath the surface become so annoyed as to call for the arrest of those who “disturb the peace,” and then whine about how it’s not fair that blacks/minoroties/hareidis live off welfare, refuse to get a job like the rest of us, compromise “safety.” Now if the hareidy was a mentch, it wouldn’t take much to detect the hatered held down by the rules of society beneath the “peaceful” atmosphere of a sardine-packed economy-class. He’d avoid it, fake-smile back at the euro-white gentelman sitting next to him at arm touching distence pretending to be reading the newspaper, and… Read more »
Three seat for a guarantee not to sit next to the opposite gender. This whole thing is a joke though. I always ask for a seat change and people accommodate the key is i don’t ask the flight attendant, i ask the passenger and they accommodate and then tell the flight attendant about my new seat. Everyone is always changing seats it’s no big deal to ask if they want to switch and if they do not want to, move on, there is enough time to find a seat. But i always get asked to switch so they xan sit… Read more »
This guy had a point up until he cursed out jewish religion and beliefs! So now nothing he writes ,thinks or says has any credit ! !
Its embarrassing and a chillul hashem frankly. When u use public transport u sit where ur told or assigned and if u dont like it leave. Flew recently from london to israel and 4 chasidishes wouldnt sit where they were told. We were 30 min delayed because of them…..a terrible chillil hashem.
How awful to make women feel they are the ‘untouchables’, ‘unseeables’ etc in ordinary day to day life. Where’s the humanity, love, kindness?
They need to get aisle or window seats in advance and the Chilul Hashem aspect should be analyzed and halachic solutions that are acceptable to them should be proposed, but only a vicious, cruel and inhumane person would advocate mesira. Any Lubavitcher (in name only) posting on here actually in favor of what this crazy blogger says, R”L, has no shiachus to anything, including basic morality.
Is his issue mixed seating? What relevance the “reliance on handouts from the government”? So if I am chareidi and don’t get govt handouts am I entitled to all-male seating?
My enemy’s enemy is NOT my friend. Just because some of you reading agree (as do I) it’s a chillul hashem etc. doesn’t make this guy the right messenger. Read between his lines. He hates us.
This blogger is legitamitely justified in complaining about the delays, but to call another’s beliefs stupid without knowing the rationale behind these actions, is the epitome of ignorance. I am just awed by some of the comments made here, and people being so oblivious to this bloggers bias. Had the scenario involved an Amish person or someone else that had a specific religious issue sitting next to a woman, this blogger would have never raised the issue. Any time a flight leaves 5-10 minutes late the pilot will usually make up the lost time in flight to compensate.
SD
hanks for the laugh – everyone else, get a grip. One should try to be reseated, if it doesn’t work, keep to yourself….
They need to get aisle or window seats in advance and the Chilul Hashem aspect should be analyzed and halachic solutions that are acceptable to them should be proposed, but only a vicious, cruel and inhumane person would advocate mesira. Any Lubavitcher (in name only) posting on here actually in favor of what this crazy blogger says, R”L, has no shiachus to anything, including basic morality.
not a nice guy – to suggest arrest and mock the inyon of tznius is disgusting. making a scene is a lack of tznius – and if that was something he wished to bring to our attention I can appreciate that but he reminds me of the Berger guy appealing to the world to consider us “lost” because of the attitude of a group of mishichistin who behave in questionable ways. Berger obviously never liked us and was thrilled to have something to hang his hat on in order to disqualify us.. This author is doing exactly the same ..… Read more »
What makes the writer think he has a better viewpoint? If he wants to call others’ beliefs stupid, then he is showing real ignorance and mistaken superiority! I notice he didn’t make a suggestion in an intelligent way, either1 Although I get the point, I think he misses another point, and that is….if a group of people abide by customs they feel bring them closer to G-d, then no one has the right to say that is stupid. Maybe the airlines could put out a description of a policy regarding the problem.Then Haredim would know the deal as common knowledge.… Read more »
why would you post such an anti-semitic article?
it’s enough that it’s written, you have to post it for others to read?
is that what you have a website for?
buy two seats.
I have to agree with him. the writer is, unfortunately, correct
that is not the point here. shame on you.
i agreed with the male.i was flying last year to israel ,a male was sitting next to the window i am the second place and a women was sitting in the first seatt, i asked her to change the seat she didnt want , so i asked 1 of the crew members ,she said after take of she will look,we both were looking the flight was full, she couldnt find ,finely i saw a lady was sitting on 2 places i told the crew members ,she asked her if she paid for 2 seats she said no, so the crew… Read more »
#1 this guy is totally and completely a anti semite
#2 there can be HUGE halachik problems with this (and I personally know someone who married a shigtza and it all started from the plain)
#3 even if it wasn’t a problem you have to remember that we are the chosen ppl and ppl know that and therefore respect us
#4 and mainly stick up for your nation have some גאון יעקב!
Can some lubavs go to williamsburg ala neturai karta & get it through their heads that the chillul hashem they are making is 10x worse than sitting next to a woman.
I always pray to sit next to a woman. And it never works!!!! G-d is not fair lol
Refusing to sit next to a woman on an airplane is beyond ridiculous and makes us all look bad. It is groundless fanaticism. Arrest a few of them and maybe they’ll stop giving us all a bad name.
He is right regarding seating. and wrong regarding our holy beliefs.
Pity he couldn’t contain himself to stick to the problem at hand.
Not every critique or criticism of Jews is anti-semitic.
The stupid belief which he refers to is this idea that you don’t want to sit next to a women, yet you book a flight knowing that approximately 50% of the people will be women, and that the seat assignments are largely random. And when your dumb bet fails, you demand that the flight attendant play musical chairs to accommodate YOUR preferences at the expense of all the other passengers.
That is pretty stupid — and extremely self absorbed.
its time to make a frum airline
that may be but it still remains our obligation not to make a Chilul Hashem which is exactly what this is.
He would probably bend over backwards, if a bunch of gay people, would make a lot of noise to cheer on a ball game…or if a stream of Moslems entered the plane and wanted to chant.!!
just remeber that u guys are frum jews to!
An anti-Semite rants and you all agree?
Really? You agree that we have “… strange, ignorant, and stupid — yes, I dare call them stupid — beliefs”
Tell you what, next time I’m sitting next to a guy and he sprawls across the mechitza (armrest!) I will scream that he “touched me” CV”S, instead of jamming in-flight magazines between us.
Be careful what you wish for.
He is 100% right ! The huge chilul hashem is incredible and fuel for the goyim.
He’s 100 percent right. All too often frum jews are under the impression that the world revolves around them. If anyone else were to demand that a flight attendant reseat them because they would prefer not to sit next to a Muslim, a child, an overweight person, etc, they would laughed off the plane. It is an enormous Chilul Hashem to make a public scene about something that is seemingly innocuous to everyone else. If you prefer not to sit next to a women, book 2 seats.
He’s totally right a lot of Charedis think they can do what they want and the world revolves around them, arrest them if they cause more delays.
Sad to say I agree with him
Is it so bad to sit next to a woman?
And is it so hard to accommodate the man to a the all male section?
Why don’t we see stories of the ladies complaining about seating?