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Sunday, 30 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 10, 2024

I Am “The Tznius Lady”

Mrs. Ella Lerman has been teaching in Bais Rivka for over 25 years, but recently she gained a new title - "the tznius lady" - and she uses it with pride. Full Story

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Hashem will bless you!!
January 21, 2014 8:22 pm

Many times I also hear from people in CH that it is harable to see what is going on with Tznius. You must never cry we need to hug you and bless you for protecting our community our CHILDREN. I wish you could speak with the young girls who perhaps forgot what they learned or they are confused because of difficulties they had in the system.
May Hashem strengthen you to continue and see the fruit of all your sincere efforts. Much Much Hatzlocha

i can't find tzinius clothing!!!!!!
Reply to  Hashem will bless you!!
June 30, 2023 12:37 pm

please post all the really tzinius websites you know of in the USA or in israel if they ship to the usa.

this is the root of the problem: there is nothing on the market that is actually tzinius! start with talking to stores if you really want to fix one of the roots of the problem.

Thank you
September 5, 2013 9:34 pm

My opinion is that when you live your life with tznius, people begin to notice more and more what kind of person you are and focus less on what you are wearing. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t express yourself, but keeping the halakha is what Hashem wants and doing so makes us closer to Him. When we dress modestly we can focus on our inner selves not our outer. What you wear gives an image to the world. What do you want that image to be?

Good for You
February 17, 2013 12:01 pm

Kol HaKavod & Hatzlacha Rabba to Mrs. Lerman!

Keep up the good work!

not the rebbe's way?
October 29, 2012 1:29 pm

if you follow the rebbe’s inventions, he always came up at a sicha saying that people think that this and this thing is not according to the way of Lubavitch, and than the rebbe went in to explain how not only the invention fits lubavitch it even brings out the way of lubavitch in a much deeper way.

same here, it’s not the way of lubavitch? don’t worry there’s a way where to make it lubavitch and not just simple lubavitch but shpitz chasidus

Kol Hakavod 2
October 27, 2012 9:17 pm

Mrs. Lerman, Hatzlacha Rabba, and keep up the good work!

Kol Hakavod
October 12, 2012 2:26 am

Mrs Lerman, Kol Hakavod for writing this article. I am not Lubavitch, but this is what I’ve done to promote tznius. Visit http://Modestanytime.com for custom-made sewn tzanua clothing. I take tzniut seriously and if you have any questions on my designs, please contact me. Thank you! I would like to link this article in my Resource pages for Jewish women.

MRS D
September 19, 2012 11:09 am

MRS. LERMAN
I APPLAUD YOUR COURAGE IN WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
PLEASE DO NOT HEED THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS. JUST CONTINUE AND MAY YOU MAY YOUR ENDEAVORS ALWAYS MEET WITH SUCCESS.
THIS IS NOT MEAH SHEARIM THIS IS NOT LUBAVITCH THIS IS YIDDISHKEIT THROUGHOUT THE WORLD

277
August 12, 2012 11:40 pm

Kol Ha’kavod! We need more people like you!

Tznius is in.....
August 6, 2012 10:08 pm

I too am part of the club c’mon ladies, girls we need more role models, ones that look fashionable and put together yet do not compromise on tznius,wether sitting standing or bending and not the fuddy , duddy types and maybe we will have more people on board. Wonderful article. lets go.

From a non- lubavitcher
July 26, 2012 3:38 pm

The best way to create the change you are looking for in your community is to make tznius, the “new cool.” girls shouldn’t have to feel like martyrs when they dress tzniusly- the should feel great! I think that the best way to do this is to make sure they have role models who look good and fashionable but are tznius at the same time. Lets face it, girls want to “look good” and tznius doesnt mean you have to look dowdy, frumpy or nerdy. If girls see that the only peple in the comminity who are tznius are the… Read more »

Agreed and disagreed
July 23, 2012 2:47 pm

While it is imprortant for the teachers, students and parents to be dressed in accordance with Halacha. Is it really right to correct someone who is doing something that your own minhagim deem inappropriate. dark nail polish, and a long sheitel aren;t the worst things in the world. Where as if the same person came into the building with a low cut blouse, or a skirt above the knee then by all means. If its something that is strictly against the schools regulations then by all means. But anything beyond the bottom line tzniut (inc minhagim of the location/school) I… Read more »

kweansmom
July 22, 2012 6:36 pm

To Commenter #266 who wants the Tznius Lady to stand at the entrance of the Jewish Children’s Museum: I don’t think you understand what the goals of the museum are . This is from the Mission Statement of the JCM: “The Museum is a setting for children of all faiths and backgrounds to gain a positive perspective and awareness of the Jewish heritage, fostering tolerance and understanding.” Having a Tznius Lady turning away people at the door would undermine the purpose of the museum on many levels. It would also discourage museum attendance, probably to the point where the museum… Read more »

from an ordinary Jew
July 22, 2012 3:05 pm

I’m getting tired of “wardrobe Judaism”. There are so many more urgent problems confronting the Jews and the world in general…and overdosing on skirt lengths and nail polish won’t help solve any of them!!

from a teacher
July 20, 2012 10:58 am

I am not Lubavitch myself, but I taught in Bais Rivkah and I was shocked every time I saw a teacher or parent dressed inappropriately. I knew that when I took the job, I had to dress and act a certain way, and I was always careful not to set a bad example for the girls. But I also saw how so many girls were confused about tznius, because they learned one thing at school but saw different things at home and on the streets – or even, chalilah, from their own teachers! And while yes, most teachers were baruch… Read more »

This may not be the right job
July 20, 2012 12:03 am

But don’t undermine that Tznius is Everyones”s business. It affects everyone that sees it. It encourages those who don’t have the courage, It affects young bochrim, it gives lubavitch a bad name and most of all affects the non tznius person and her kids and husband.!!!!!!!!

Tznius can be fun and exciting!!!!!
July 19, 2012 1:31 pm

Here are some ideas to make tznius appealing: 1) Give discount cards to students that can be used in a local store which sells tznius clothing. (The owner can ask his posek if he can deduct this as maaser) . 2) Hold a tznius mivtza in school. Girls have to research, illustrate and create a board on ONE aspect of tznius. (Tznius also relates to behaving with refinement and dignity both within and without the home. Then hold a tznius fair for girls and their mothers with plenty of prizes and accolades for every serious entry! 3) Have the high… Read more »

Embarrassing People Is Not Ahavas Yisroel
July 17, 2012 2:04 pm

When you follow every single detail of the Shulchan Aruch to perfection, then you can criticize people.
It is the Chabad way and the Torah way for Ahavas Yisroel to always be exercised. Have you learned nothing from the teachings of the Rebbe and Frierdiker Rebbe?

Tznius curriculum
July 12, 2012 4:36 pm

Someone above mentioned creating a tznius curriculum. I think this is a fabulous idea. I did not go to a Chabad seminary, but we had a mandatory class called hardens leches, wherein we learned all the sources of tznius with different commentaries. This could easily be created and adapted to a Chasidish/ Chabad perspective, and ideally taught to high school girls. I believe this would be a very respectful practical way to address the issue.

Come to the Museum
July 11, 2012 10:30 pm

Every single day there are women who come to our community and have absolutely no respect for us. Many of them are dressed in short sleeves and short pants etc.
If you go to the JCM for even one day you will find dozens of people dressed that way and many of them are Jewish.
Dear Tznius Lady, please come to the Museum there is lots of work to be done. Tell them they can’t come in until they are dressed properly.

I find your viewpoint disturbing
July 11, 2012 11:53 am

And I agree with #264
“The Halacha, as presented here, has been perverted to become a vehicle for harsh judgment that leads, often, to severe shame on the part on the recipient of the rebuke, not a dramatic change in dress.”

Maybe learn the halachos of giving proper mussar and the halachos of embarrassing people before continuing what you are doing.

I respectfully disagree
July 10, 2012 9:49 am

i have to say I am disappointed by the argument presented here. As a strictly observant teacher at an Orthodox school, I have encountered far worse problems than matters of dress. I have seen students dressed “appropriately” (because the definition of “appropriate” here is incredibly subjective–I would posit it is one that borders on harassment, if a teacher is doing the commenting–and this is not in accordance with the law). These students exhibit racist believes, and often an entire absence of empathy for those not exactly like themselves. The laws you feel they must adhere to are superficial in nature,… Read more »

Effective Long-Term?
July 9, 2012 2:03 pm

What feelings will a rebuked girl/woman be left with that propels her to dress modestly in the future? This is a quick and short-lived fix. It can only be maintained in controlled settings. Given that, I do not even need to address whether this method is Torah-dic. I would like to address the commenter who compared it to the embarrassing Sotah ritual–you cannot extrapolate from that and say it is permissible to embarrass someone in all situations where they violate halacha. There is a halacha not to embarrass and it is not stated that there is an exception when it… Read more »

Education
July 9, 2012 1:37 pm

While this women’s intentions seem to be pure, I think the method will only drive people away. As for stockings and color of nail polish those are chumrot some people/communities choose to take on, NOT halacha, and people should be educated enough to know the difference between halacha and chumrot. Personally I think the girl in sandals who is makpid on the length of her skirt is more tznius than the many girls who are makpid to wear sandals but wear skirts that show everything the moment they sit. And she is being makpid on halacha, while choosing not to… Read more »

Not
July 9, 2012 1:36 pm

What’s beautiful about being tznius? It’s oppressive.

Education
July 9, 2012 12:58 pm

While this women’s intentions seem to be pure, I think the method will only drive people away. As for stockings and color of nail polish those are chumrot some people/communities choose to take on, NOT halacha, and people should be educated enough to know the difference between halacha and chumrot. Personally I think the girl in sandals who is makpid on the length of her skirt is more tznius than the many girls who are makpid to wear sandals but wear skirts that show everything the moment they sit. And she is being makpid on halacha, while choosing not to… Read more »

The road is paved with good intentions
July 8, 2012 6:14 am

While women who give this rebuke to other women may have the best of intentions, the message received is often not one of love. The girls on the receiving end of these rebukes are often highly hurt by them, especially when the rebuke is given in regard to something that is a not so black and white. I think the women covering their knees, elbows, and collarbones in 100 degree weather should be given credit rather than rebuked because they aren’t wearing stockings or something that is actually a chumra.

You may be a doctor but halacha...
July 8, 2012 2:20 am

To #252 you may feel refined like a bas melech etc., but in my opinion that was a very unrefined and unprincess-like thing to say. “I don’t wear tights/cover my legs Hashem doesn’t expect us to dress like the 19th century.” When was the last time He spoke to you? Leave the paskening to the Rabbonim please… and to #255 are you suggesting that you are following Sara Immeinu’s example in not wearing tights??? Is there something here i’m not getting?

Let's leave the judging up to the Aibishter
July 5, 2012 8:53 pm

I would argue that it’s more of a sin to sit in judgement of others than it is to wear “dark nailpolish”.

whew!
July 4, 2012 12:57 am

Can #104 write the rebuttal – a more enlightened response to our community issues?

tsnuit??
July 1, 2012 9:16 am

ok firstly, i kind of agree with the need to display more modesty in our clothing nowadays…… many teachers have spoken to me before about my jeans skirts etc….. HOWEVER…. i look around me at what my ‘role models’ are supposed to be in the world… and i see either two things….. ‘very frum’ women with extremely tight fitting provocative black tops…..tight skirts and sky high heels…. or women dressed shabbily and who look slightly ridiculous.. its hard for me to dress in a ridiculous manner as i dont want to look that odd. and arent tight fitting clothes not… Read more »

Does it really make a difference?
June 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Will Hashem judge you for wearing dark red nail polish rather than bright pink nail polish? Will He judge you for having your shirt one button open? Stop making a cult out of Judaism! And btw, #253, get off of the internet if you don’t want to be influenced by such a disgusting, goyish society!

#252 CHAS VESHALOM!
June 27, 2012 8:20 pm

when dark nail polish became ‘fashion’, did the queen of england start wearing it? of course not! ‘because its in fashion’ is NOT a reason to EVER conform to such disgusting, goyish society!!….mamesh a disgrace

These rules can no longer apply today.
June 26, 2012 1:31 pm

As a woman, I feel that the purpose of tznius is to represent myself as a bas melech. Therefore, in my work as a hard-working mother, wife, and physician, I try to dress with dignity and style, as a princess indeed would dress. I don’t wear tights and at times I will wear dark nail-polish– but I feel like a bas melech at all times. Fashion has evolved- and the Torah surely does not demand of us to dress like women of the 19th century!

to 246
June 26, 2012 11:33 am

i totally agree with you

kol kakavod
June 25, 2012 11:33 pm

looking forward to more years of tznius, feeling good and right about that committment, and feeling like I can look nice and fulfill my connection to Torah. thanks.
ps. there might be a large crowd who are conflicted about the tznius issue, but have no fear, it may be a strained topic, but the Torah is the Torah and tznius will always be an inyon waiting for more women to fulfill it.
stay positive, stay tznius!! AD MOSSAI ! 😉

#91
June 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Mrs.Lerman IS Boruch Hashem a living example of tznius and
and is 100% right to express her concern for the honor
of Lubavitch. She is doing what should have long ago been done. How does anyone have the Chuzpah to refute what is
part of our TORAH?

to #223
June 25, 2012 10:31 pm

NOT true! i am extremely tsnius and i hav high self esteem!

See this relevant article
June 25, 2012 10:20 pm
this is crazy
June 25, 2012 8:13 pm

its not her job to tell people what to wear. its thier choice in life and by telling them off youre gonna make them do it more. mrs lerman might be the sweetist lady in the world but she has no right to do this. i might have considered going to bais rivka for high school but now im definitely not. these people know what they are doing and people being judgemental and telling them off are going to make them do it more. i know this from personal experience

I agree
June 25, 2012 6:33 pm

that dark red & dark black nailpolish is NOT tznius………& if a teacher doesnt realize that well then they shouldnt be teaching our treasures

"very long sheitlach and dark nail polish"
June 25, 2012 11:30 am

Mrs. Lerman, I am sure you mean well, but when you blur the line between halacha and your personal determination of what is tznius and what is not, well, then you lose all credibility. Equating skirts that a mid thigh length to very long sheitlach is asinine, comparing plunging necklines to dark nail polish is ridiculous. Stick to shulchan aruch and halacha, and not modern recent chumras, and you may actually find people listen.

The right person for the job
June 25, 2012 9:53 am

Mrs. Lerman was my daughter’s teacher, and a more fine, respectful person you will not find. She is a great teacher, who cares for and inspires her students. All this talk about show them love, not criticism – well that’s exactly the type of teacher Mrs. Lerman is, and that’s why she IS the person for this very necessary job.

I can’t believe the defensive comments people are posting without even knowing her!

to # 240
June 25, 2012 9:51 am

i am sorry but you can’t make such a general comment. not all the bais yaakov girls are like you describe(i personally know some girls), and not all of the chabad girls need a “tznius lady”. I am 16 , i go to a chabad school, and i am actually proud to be tznius, as many other girls that maybe you don’t know

I LOVE LUBAVITCH!
June 25, 2012 7:24 am

This whole farbrengen about the issue was amazing! Lubavitch rocks my world! Its so beautiful to see how passionate people are! One about Halalcha, another about Ahavas Yisrael and Sensitivity! I found this video- The Rebbe DOES say something, but with tact- its a very difficult thing to achieve but maybe some Lubavitchers are modern in their ideas and uphold western, democratic values which are not Torah values… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z1QMvDfdAQ
I think Hashem gets nachas from open online discussions like these! (call me wierd but thats what I think)

Sad but necessary
June 25, 2012 5:58 am

How sad that there’s a need for Mrs Lerman to need to do this. My daughter attends a Bais Yaakov & there are no tznius issues. Does anyone want to know why? The girls are taught what a privilege it is to be a Bas Yisroel, how beautiful it is & how precious things are concealed. The girls are PROUD to be tznius. To be sure they learn Halachos too but those are secondary to the message of beauty & self respect. How sad that with all the beautiful Chassidus available to us Chabad women & girls do not have… Read more »

Your Not getting the point...
June 25, 2012 1:16 am

After reading most of these comments… No I’m genna ask why do you think she is telling all the girls to be Tznius? Is it because its against Halacha or rebuking no.no.no. Cause when you see Lubavitch/ religious /Jewish not Tznius what is the first thing that comes to your mind? Shes fried out shes disgusting she might have problems at home… then you remember oh maybe Dan Likaf Zechus but your still staring at her etc. So now Mrs. Lerman is trying to erase the fact that no one should think this girl is horrible or not friendly…. Cause… Read more »

kol hacavod
June 24, 2012 11:37 pm

u r a gooid tznius lady. may all tznius ladies be like you!

Wow 223
June 24, 2012 10:07 pm

Wow 223!

to 229
June 24, 2012 9:56 pm

there is a serious problem if you dont think women are dressing provocatively- we have been desensitized so much! a woman who doesnt folllow the rules in an attempt to please her husband is insecure in their bond that she needs to resort to this. if she were confident in their love she wouldnt have to resort to overexposure. in fact overexposure detracts tremendously and totally cheapens and weakens the relationship-since shes flaunting her body to the world- disregarding whats supposed to be ‘just between them’. so actuaaly one who is meticulou in covering herself- is doing so to strengthen… Read more »

To 222
June 24, 2012 8:53 pm

I think this is coming from ur low self esteem!

Mixed feelings...
June 24, 2012 7:41 pm

Although this does not seem like a very Lubavitch thing to do, the tsnius problem within Chabad and specifically within Crown Heights is absolutely out of control. I do agree that there are certain ways of inspiring people without shoving tsnius down thier throats but it has gotten to the point where these girls do no realize what they are doing. I do not agree with lecturing people on the streets but as far as a school goes, rules are rules. If you do not like the rules of a particular school then do not send your children there.

A thought provoking discussion
June 24, 2012 3:38 am

After reading the article and comments, clearly tznius, along with the serious problem of abuse predators and those that cover-up their crimes, seem to me to be the two central challenges of our time. As a BT who lived the fast track of pop culture for many years, I chose the beauty and values of Yiddishkeit and was drawn to the dignity of modesty. Please read my essay in Haaretz on the subject (see link below). I teach the beauty of tznius all the time to young women and I believe I have a fresh contempory perspective. There is a… Read more »

to 229
June 24, 2012 3:11 am

Covering up totally does not have to mean a woman has a low self image. It could simply mean she wants to follow the halacha precisely and doesn’t want to be attracting.

#228
June 24, 2012 3:10 am

no loshon hora for something that is already public. in this case, the person walking arround without tznius is publicizing it herself!

MAYBE START WITH YOUR OWN TEACHERS..
June 24, 2012 3:05 am

Dear Mrs. Lerman,
How about starting with the Crown Heights teachers? Did you see how some of them dress? is Tznius only a way of “fooling” the kids in school and a “uniform” to get a paycheck?! Why are there some that are big Mechaneches walking down the street in a tichel? Many of them are lacking Tznius, in and out of school..
I wonder why in over 200 comments it was not mentioned.. I’m I seeing wrong or I’m I too honest..?

to 227
June 22, 2012 2:48 pm

I asked a family member- a ‘frum reliable psychologist”- (please note the correct spelling) and they agreed with me. That being said, I think that both extremes indicate a lack of self-esteem; those who dress provocatively (mini skirts, tight tops, very low necklines) are anxiously awaiting the nods of other men. On the other hand, those who meticulously cover up their bodies are most certainly uncomfortable with their bodies. When an overweight CH mother wears baggy clothing, she may call herself ‘uber-chassidish’ for her high level of tznius, but in reality she wishes she could be more comfortable wearing form-fitting… Read more »

wow wow wow
June 22, 2012 2:41 pm

i am simply laughing in front of my computer. you know why, because all you chassidish women- are going on and on. well guess what… i am not even married. i grew up in a good chassidish home and i think its sad that anyone thinks it could change. just accept it that not everyone is the same level. just accept that yes “jewish frum lubavitch women and girls wont be dressed the same as you. leave the reckoning and judging up to hashem. if thats their lifestyle just accept. first look at yourself, do you speak loshon hara, do… Read more »

to 223
June 22, 2012 1:50 pm

Your words are untrue. Ask any frum reliable psycologist.
Have a good Shabbos!

Tally
June 22, 2012 11:51 am

Could someone tally up the results. How many pro and how many against?

Agree with #209 and #224
June 22, 2012 9:32 am

I completely agree with #224, and with #209 as well. Chabad is extremely judgmental towards its own, which is the reason I decided to lead a not-chabad lifestyle anymore. They are very warm to the people who need to be me’kareved, but are extremely judgmental and closed-minded to people who grew up Lubavitch. If only they knew how many people they were pushing away with every rude comment and glaring stare…..

The problem lies with #219
June 22, 2012 8:53 am

“Also you are making fools of yourselves because evryone reading it knows you arent sure of your life and need some guidance.” What’s wrong with needing some guidance?? Don’t you realize that all of the Chabad Lite crowd just simply needs guidance? They have to find their own place within yiddishkeit! Stop forcing them to be followers– and bashing them for “not being sure of their life”– we should support them for going beyond the status quo and attempting to find their own connections to Hashem! Why don’t we change our outlooks, and treat them like we would any other… Read more »

To number 222
June 22, 2012 7:47 am

Or Maybe…. it’s the OPPOSITE!! The women who are extremely tznius have no self esteem and therefore only feel comfortable when every part of their bodies are covered!! You KNOW its true!

NO SELF ESTEEM!!!
June 22, 2012 3:35 am

I think these girls have an extremely low self esteem. Maybe the schools can get some sort of doctor to help them in general and maybe that way they will feel better about themselves and not resort to such a way of dressing.

Just a thought to contemplate!

to number 217 and all the others like it
June 22, 2012 12:54 am

so why dont you start not keeping cholov yisrael and tell your husband to shave and stop wearing yamulke and tzitzis and your kids cna watch tv and let them read whatever they want-“because its not lubavitch”

Is silence an option?
June 22, 2012 12:47 am

See Shabbos 119b that Yerushalayim was destroyed because the people did not rebuke one another. They rather acted like sheep who stand beside each other, minding their own business.

listen closely
June 22, 2012 12:37 am

all you women/men are ridiculous. fighting like little children. it doesnt matter who is wrong or right. all those who are praising the article you know your right, you don’t need to write it because everyone also knows your right. and all those who are saying welcome to 2012 or its for mea shearim.. first of all you know yourself that your wrong and that’s why your defending yourselves. the truth doesn’t need to be defended-it speaks for itself. also you are making fools of yourselves because evryone reading it knows you arent sure of your life and need some… Read more »

agree
June 21, 2012 11:24 pm

same person as before. i also like:
Enjoy yourself.

It’s cute that you think anyone cares what you think welcome to 2012.

agree
June 21, 2012 11:18 pm

i agree with Mea Shearim not Lubavitch !!

210 short skirts in the 60's
June 21, 2012 11:01 pm

it was a problem, and a lot of rabbonim from all segments of yiddishkeit, litvish, chassidish, etc came out with a letter saying skirts have to cover the knees even when sitting.

to 199
June 21, 2012 10:16 pm

I beg to differ!!

To # 1 and interesting Rashi
June 21, 2012 10:09 pm

Re Makeup on Shabbos, see link below

Also, I noticed an interesting Rashi on Sotah 2a D.H. Mezavgin which seems to define a righteous woman as a tzenuah and wicked woman as a perutzah.

http://www.yeshivahcollege.com/Yeshivah_College___hmkllh_hysybh/PARSHA/Entries/2012/5/4_Cosmetics_on_Shabbat.html

Life's not easy
June 21, 2012 8:52 pm

People go through a lot just to get through a day And a night. And families with Boruch Hashem Lots of expenses fork over what they can possibly Afford to pay for parochial school. Day by day decade By decade people break their backs to afford A Chasidesha education for their kids . They pray That they and their children will be treated with The dignity they have earned. And since Gimel Tammuz-well if You are like me you are still Hurt. What greater hurt Could have been. So we are so to speak a shearis Hapelata. So no more… Read more »

#41
June 21, 2012 6:27 pm

you are 100% correct!!!

VERY unlubavitch
June 21, 2012 6:09 pm

i think this is completely the wrong way to go about it its a major turn off wow im shocked people would think that it will help if women do come to the school dressed more tzniusdick it will be because they dont want to be yelled at by someone standing at the door ready to pounce

bravo 191
June 21, 2012 4:42 pm

yeh what about that??!! tue all the pics from the 60’s and 70 ‘s are below the knee skirts , over the elbow…. yes Lubavitch born ffb women!!! Chek out the London Lubavitch book called roots u will see for urself!!

The truth about Chabad is exposed.
June 21, 2012 2:50 pm

There is a huge difference between the way Chabad treats other Jews, and the way they treat their own. I have found that within Crown Heights and the Lubavitch community in general, the non-judgemental and ‘warm acceptance of all Jews’ attitude (which Chabad is reknowned for) is completely lacking. As a member of the younger generation, I can say that none of us chose to be born into Chabad families… We were though, and the younger generation needs to be given a chance to ‘experiment’ with different hashkafos and find the level of frumkeit that they are comfortable with. Why… Read more »

To 11 and 12
June 21, 2012 2:29 pm

There is makeup which is muttar on Shabbos.

To #203
June 21, 2012 2:23 pm

Seriously?? I’m a huge believer in Dan Lekaf Zechus but I’m sure there is no way to give these women at BR benefit of the doubt. They KNOW they are dressed inappropriately, even if they are bringing someone else’s child. And I’m sure Mrs. Lerman can tell who is a parent in CH or a visitor who may not know the halochos (a non frum relative for example). I have non frum relatives but they aren’t ignorant. In respect for our community, my jeans-wearing cousin only wore skirts when she was here a few months ago!! Mrs. Lerman was my… Read more »

To #203
June 21, 2012 11:38 am

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

Chabad mont pnimius
June 21, 2012 11:36 am

Chabad lite do not like t be told off. They would rather live in a bubble. Thank you Mrs Lerman.

a friend of Chabad
June 21, 2012 11:32 am

I study חסידות חב”ד with a Lubavitcher friend of mine. You have the best ספרים but I would be scared to move my kids across to a Lubavitch school, especially the ones for girls. Don’t you realize that פרומע וועלט would be absolutelly shocked if they would see how some boys and girls dress in Crown Heights. it’s a real problem 🙁

How about a health lady!!
June 21, 2012 11:18 am

why isn’t there someone at the door to “rebuke” the woman that are overweight? why doesn’t anyone yell at the 300 pound person eating ice cream on kingston ave? aren’t they not taking care of the body that hashem gave them? in fact aren’t they harming they’re body? wont this lead to illness and even death? it seems a lot more serious to me than embarrassing someone that you know nothing about. now i’m sure that you have all kinds of reasons why someone might be fat like childbirth, thyroid problem etc. etc. and that’s probably why you wouldn’t do… Read more »

So sad!!
June 21, 2012 11:13 am

This is the best recipe for keeping conflicts growing….for letting hate ruining relationships between brothers,neighbors etc,etc…( But maybe, should you live in Israel in order to understand better such an expanding phenomenon?)This tactic definitely belongs to Meah Shearim and not to Crown heights where i have learned to appreciate Habbads’ people, especially for their tolerance to the other, no matter how different he is….Where the most important is to love and to welcome everyone with the hope that they will feel that comfortable and happy around them that they would want to adopt their” lifestyle” (as she recalls it in… Read more »

for # 1 in reference to makeup
June 21, 2012 9:48 am

Revlon colorstay makeup (eyeliner,lipstick,foundation) lasts a full Shabbos. I am a woman in my 50’s and put it on before Shabbos and it last beautifully. As far as the tzniyus problem the ladies need to wake up; you are jeopardizing your children and husband .And btw do you like the non jewish men looking at your body up and down as you walk by? maybe you do. I saw a perfect example of this the other day as the men spoke in spanish all about the young married ladie’s shapely body and it was vulgar

mrs. lerman doesnt embarrass
June 21, 2012 9:36 am

Mrs. Lerman does not embarrass anyone. Is a doorman who asks you not to smoke in the building embarrasing you? It is just not acceptable

agree with 177
June 21, 2012 8:58 am

yes this is a unhappy place, and yes this is the way the women are fighting to be heard! so don’t put tzinus ladies at the doors… put kind ladies there, just to say hi, how are u, is everything ok? can I help?!! mark my words this will end this ‘crises’ !!!

In the news...cover up
June 21, 2012 8:24 am

Recently there was a review of skin cancer in the news, which stated that there has been much increased incidence rl of melanoma. The directive…COVER UP.

That is not the reason for Tzniyus but a benefit. So, be wise and stay cool. Yes, tzniyus like all mitzvos have benefits that
go far beyond what we see with our eyes. They are the rewards for doing it FOR G-D ALONE. Remember Hashem gave Adam and Chava their clothing.

JUST DO IT.

Hindy Lewis
June 21, 2012 8:13 am

I just read this article & the accompanying comments. Regardless of my opinions about the level (or lack of) of Tznius in Crown Heights, this needs to be said: Mrs. Lerman is one of my “heroes”. This is a thankless task, but she does it with as much sensitivity and kindness as possible. I have never, ever heard either with my own ears, or via my daughters, that she raises her voice, is sarcastic or judgmental, or cruel. We have a serious problem in Crown Heights. I was in Williamsburg yesterday: despite the excessive heat, every woman & girl I… Read more »

a great conversation
June 21, 2012 8:09 am

I’m happy to hear so many voices and honest opinions about a subject that matters. Tznius is a very personal issue, whereas I agree that many women walking on Kingston Ave. sadly look innapropiate from many standpoints. I think this comes mainly from ignorance, sometimes because they grew up feeling oppressed by this issue and now find themselves free to express their individuality. When you don’t respect a young person’s need to individualize, you silence their questions, plus you do not give them a good secular education to be able to cope intelligently with what’s going on out there..this is… Read more »

listen closly....
June 21, 2012 3:53 am

i am a 15 year old girl. ive been thru the tznius hardships. i have been talk to since i was in seventh grade about my approach. i have been told so many time to close my button of my uniform shirt/ to throw out my ankle socks/ to go home from school and change my skirt/ to take off my long earings ect. i will just make it clear that no matter how many times my pinciple confrounted me about my tznius, nothing changed. just made it worse. my point is i have come to realize ON MY OWN,… Read more »

All these men!
June 21, 2012 1:47 am

All these men must have no self control if they blame women so much.

It’s sad, incredibly sad, that tznius, the mitzva designed (supposedly) to let us focus on our inner growth instead of our body, this mitzvah has been hijacked so as to create a culture where the body and how it’s covered is ALL we look at. What’s too tight? Which five year old is too alluring (???) by wearing short sleeves? Who’s wearing dark nailpolish? It’s the opposite of what tznius is meant to be and that’s why I’m moving away from these rules.

to comment 158
June 21, 2012 1:44 am

Lol. I think they have websites like that already.

The problem today is that the girls and woman dress untznius
June 21, 2012 12:44 am

In the old days if they didnt mesure up it was a refined aidel not tznius dress. Nowadays the girls and woman parading on Kingston dress like the worst trash. Even the Modern Orthodox dress in a more aidel manner.

The Olden Days
June 20, 2012 11:49 pm

I look at pictures of my chassidishe Mother and all of her peers in the 1950’s through the 1970’s….skirt lengths were above knees, collars were open, sleeve a bit above elbows.. and they had the latest hairdo (shaitel) beehives etc. and followed the fashion trends. These women were very frum, yiras shomayim and raised a generation of frum chassidishe children during this era and we wore dresses above knees… look at your old school and home photos ! Of course as time went on the Frumme Velt improved the Tznius guidelines (good thing)…..however, just as some posters say…people have gone… Read more »

this lady got it all wrong
June 20, 2012 11:04 pm

this lady is ridiculous! do you see whats going on in the world right now? all the hatred and negativity between nations and jewish ppl. this world needs acceptance, kindness and love. and what htis woman is doing is completely the opposite. if thre was more freedom to begin with these woman would not dress this way. and pardon me but i think that ppl in this chabad community dress very modestly. so how is it that from one persons perspective and reaction they see that these girls are completely covered up but then this woman is focusing on negativity… Read more »

grey areas
June 20, 2012 10:41 pm

The biggest issue IS the grey areas…. The more crazy the tznius rules became the worse we dressed. Thats right, we lost sight of the basics and it all just went out the window… 30 years ago, noone cared about nailpolish, or length of shaitels, or colours, or earrings, or denim/non denim… Once you started making things like nail polish assur, then skirt length became the same as nail polish…and it all went out together!! If you had stuck to basics, and not made things so difficult – ppl may not have rebelled so much. Basics: Skirt length, necklines, elbows… Read more »

Good
June 20, 2012 10:40 pm

I think all the institutions in CH should all get together and demand that if you want your child in our institution, you need to keep to certain guidelines. Just like Bnos Menachem.
Beis Rivkah has the right to demand that if you want to enter our building you need to be dressed according to Halacha.

use some positive reenforcement!
June 20, 2012 10:27 pm

maybe someone should stand on kingston and give out hundred dollar bills at random times to the people dressed appropriately!

Mrs Lerman Please arrange for some woman to stand on Kingston
June 20, 2012 10:11 pm

We need a whole crew.

REPLY TO 177
June 20, 2012 9:30 pm

According to your logic, if there are nasty landlords or bullies, that means you don’t have to keep to halachah. Does Shabbos also fall by the wayside when you’re feelings are hurt, Or is this so called logic just a good excuse for your lack of tznius.

Let’s call it what it is. Dressing immodestly is giving in to temptation. It won’t help after 120 to blame it on others. It didn’t work for Adam Harishon. It won’t work now.

again
June 20, 2012 9:16 pm

not to be chutzpahdik or anything… but if thousands of people are reading this speech here, does that mean we don’t have to hear it again at the beginning of the school year? 🙂

Kol hakavod Mrs. Lerman!
June 20, 2012 8:51 pm
Shlucha: Kol hakovoid
June 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Thank you Mrs Lerman for standing up for Yiddishkeit. When I brought my daughter to visit Crown Heights she pointed to some Ch girls and sincerely asked me if they were non-frum girls visiting. She assumed that Lubavitch girls would never dress like that.

FUNNY,THEY DON'T LOOK HAPPIER
June 20, 2012 8:16 pm

THE WOMAN AND GIRLS WHO DRESS ANYWAY THEY FEEL LIKE DON’T LOOK HAPPIER
MY DAUGHTER (AGE 10 OR 11) YEARS AGO ,MOMMY THAT WOMAN HAIR IS SHOWING(ABOUT 4IN) ,I SAID TO HER YES ,I KNOW, I TOLD HER THAT AII CAN BE SAID HAD BE SAID,DOES SHE HAVE ANY IDEAS . IT’S POSSIBLE THAT SOME WOMEN JUST HAVE NO FEELING INSIDE THERE’S LOST,YES THAT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERANCES

WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS THINK!
June 20, 2012 8:03 pm

If we don’t care what others think then at least do it for what the actual outcome of immodest dress causes. YOU ARE CAUSING MEN TO TRANSGRESS. Have a little compassion and ease the struggles of others. Please the frum world is begging you!!!!

They Way to do It
June 20, 2012 7:54 pm

Let’s throw rocks like in Meah Shearim!

to #173
June 20, 2012 7:53 pm

Great! I loved your post. I too have figured out a way to keep my makeup on for the 25 hours of Shabbos….similar to your post…you’ve covered all areas. I know when I’m in Shul people are trying to figure out if I put on fresh makeup, but just like you I have found a way to make it last. As you stated….trying to make your makeup last thru Shabbos may come across as being vain…it’s not… I feel more put together.

deal with the real underlying issue
June 20, 2012 7:48 pm

which is the sheer meaness of The ppl in CH! the head of schools , who just want money and don’t careabout anything else, the neighbors fighting, the landlords nasty, the shops rude. how many times I’ve held open doors and never got a thank you!! my kids bullied in school by the ‘white shirters’ …. all I see is a load of hypocrites and so u wanna talk tznius to me…. make this a happier place and the women will be happy to comply!!!

to no. 74
June 20, 2012 7:37 pm

you are sooo right. People like Mrs Lerman, with all due respect to her, she is a very nice lady do NOT market it properly. I was at one of her tznius lecture and I was not inspired at all. How can my teenager be inspired? So, bottom line.. You need the right people who know how to speak TO the girls

THIS IS A SIGN!
June 20, 2012 7:26 pm

MOSHIACH IS COMING!!!!

Tznius needs better PR
June 20, 2012 7:15 pm

If it was marketed properly… it would be cool!

How To Keep Make-Up On For All of Shabbos and Even Yom Tov!
June 20, 2012 6:12 pm

So everyone is always asking me how I keep my make-up on all Yom Tov long… Do I re-apply in the morning? Nowayhozay! That’s totally assur! Shabbos and Yom Tov are way more beautiful than a face of make-up! Why mess them up just to keep my make-up good?! Instead, over some years of trial and error, and those good old days when I had time to be bored with a mirror, I’ve found some great ways to make the make-up last for very long. So I put together a pile of handy-dandy tricks. Tips before we start: Young teens:… Read more »

Think
June 20, 2012 6:02 pm

How do you think the child of the mother you’re rebuking feels? That child is thinking – the school thinks my mother is inadequate. Or alternatively – how dare the school treat my parent this way. Why would that child want to stay in the system? Why would that child want to dress b’tznius if she associates it with public humiliation?

to all people for dark nail polish
June 20, 2012 5:43 pm

i think the real deal is that a lot of people say that dark nail polish attracts attention. honestly though i think the number one “no no” is knees, elbows, and collarbone. these are the things it says in shulchan aruch. but on the same side, it also says no bright colors. this must be the reason why everyone is against dark nail polish. i have no answer to number 164 but i will try to search for one.

to number 1
June 20, 2012 5:39 pm

i just learned this. no you may not apply makeup on shabbos because it is like drawing on your face. although i, and many other lady’s hate to admit it, it technically is! it is like drawing on a piece of paper and can we do that? no. some people do hold that if you put on makeup before shabbos you can add on to it. i don’t get that but everyone has different opinions. their is also something called shabbos makeup, which i am not sure where you can get it. there is also something called good quality makeup:)… Read more »

not surprising
June 20, 2012 5:34 pm

In our schools in CH the rules and teachers are very hypocritcal. So I dont understand why the readers are expecting better. I have thousands of examples to prove this. For one I sat next to a principal and SHE was wearing nailpolish which here is being touted as “not Tznius” One of thousands of exampled. Doesnt even pay to talk about it. The old guard who does not understand our girls are not leaving their “benkel” so dont expect anything to get better.

Teenager
June 20, 2012 5:17 pm

Google images of rebbitzen Chaya mushka who is the definition of modest she were dark nail polish I think that why the teacher said to not choose gray areas because they are made up! Were in shulchan uruch does it say no dark nail polish

to # 1, 11, 12
June 20, 2012 5:13 pm

My makeup lasts through Shabbos. Over the years I’ve figured out what works for the 25 hour duration. I know I get stares in Shul and some people have walked up to me and asked me straight out if I put my makeup on Shabbos…NO, I don’t! A great lipstick/gel that stays on
for very long is Maybelline Super Stay 24 color.

Long lasting makeup
June 20, 2012 5:03 pm

I use Adwe lipstick and it lasts for two, even three days of Yom Tov. Eat carefully and don’t wipe it off with napkin.

I was made up for a wedding two days ago and still have the makeup on.

Use longlasting products and don’t wash and wipe it off and it will last.

You said it best!
June 20, 2012 4:45 pm

# 37 hit the nail on the head. The problem is summed up by that little episode about the teacher with the dark nail polish. If br holds that dark nail polish is not appropriate for a bas chabad ( an arguement in and of itself) then how does it help to argue with the teacher to take it off — she should not be in your school. Therein lies the double standards. kids know emes. Educators need to be the real deal. They need to genuinely care about their students gahsmius, and ruchnius, and believe in what they say… Read more »

Dark Lipstick acceptable, but not nail polish, WHY?
June 20, 2012 4:03 pm

Dark lipstick applied with good taste is certainly acceptable (burgandy, wine, berry, etc.), but a similar colored nail polish is not–what’s the rationale,here? Black nail polish for sure is an eye sore, but assuming that the nails are neatly manicured and short, colors from the rose/burgandy family? what’s the problem here?. am I missing something. Pleaes advise, someone?

numbers
June 20, 2012 3:58 pm

i think this article has the most comments

The main thing
June 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Beautfully written article Although mrs lerman does have a valid point, and some Jewish women do not dress appropriately, people have to realize that tzniys is not the only factor when it comes to yiddishkeit. Most peopl see a girl on the street wearing something inappropriate and immediately assume that she is not religious or doesn’t care about yidishkeiy or whatever. This is not necessarily true. Being that we do not know that individual personally, we can’t just pass judgement based on how s/he is dressed. Clothing is not always a persons identifier. I am in beis Rivka high school,… Read more »

summerise
June 20, 2012 3:47 pm

#94 and #120 comments are spot on.Lets keep to halacha and not start on woman with dark nail varnish(horror horror!!)This is not the Lubavitch way.

Friends are supposed to be "cool", teachers are different.
June 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Amazing! but you lost me a bit when you said… “That Friday night, I dreamt that I saw this student walking in the street with pants on. On Shabbos day, after a Pirkei Avos shiur, I told my friends what had happened and what I learned from it all. I didn’t speak to the girl, not only because I didn’t want to embarrass her, but because I didn’t want to appear not cool. I knew that the girl liked me and I didn’t want her to think of me as an annoying, nagging teacher. When we don’t speak up it… Read more »

to 154
June 20, 2012 3:41 pm

Why don’t I believe a word of that comment?

Put pictures up
June 20, 2012 3:38 pm

Put pictures of all the non tnius ladies on the interenet so they will be ashamed to appear that way

Amazing
June 20, 2012 3:29 pm

Mrs Lerman, it’s wonderful to hear how brave you are for the sake of Tznius. This is obviously something hard to do. May Hashem repay you with brochos ad bli dai!

Well writen article
June 20, 2012 3:14 pm

!

Thank you Mrs. Lerman
June 20, 2012 3:08 pm

Thanks to you I am what I am! When you approached me and I saw the emesdigkeit in your eyes I knew i needed to make a change. I was waiting to hear something from someone. i knew I was doing something incorrect. Thank you for giving me the opportunity for thanking you publicly.

A fan
June 20, 2012 3:00 pm

Mrs Lerman! Such an inspirational person. A real roll model!

#18
June 20, 2012 2:29 pm

yes, that’s the way of the Haskallah!

Embarressed??
June 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Why do you feel humiliated when someone points out to you that something is against halacha or Chabad Minhag? Because it’s tznius!
Do you get insulted if someone points out to you that you’ve gotten a splattering of ketchup on yourself or that your little sunny boy fell and got dirty in the mud?
It’s just that you feel you need to defend yourSELF!

The best place in the world
June 20, 2012 2:23 pm

Crown heights is a wondeful place, with wonderful people.
We are a good people and will do the right thing.

to #4
June 20, 2012 2:21 pm

I guess you have yet to read through the Rebbe’s Igros and sichos! Enough said; a true am haeretz!

Dracheha darchei shalom
June 20, 2012 2:06 pm

To Number 4, 1) You are correct. We should not be dragging the Rebbe’s name into this. Tznius is a law in Shulchan Aruch and not lifnim m’shuras ha-din i.e. chasidishkeit. 2) You are correct. The Rebbe’s actions in your story are opposite to this lady’s actions. Then again, after making a person feel welcome the Rebbe always demanded of EVERY individual, regardless of level, that they increase in their level of observance. He never accepted the status quo. 3) You are correct. One must inform and inspire through education and voluntary action. So what are you doing to inform… Read more »

Someone is awake
June 20, 2012 2:04 pm

Thanks #104, (it was starting to feel like the twilight zone)…..after your comment I scrolled right to the bottom ennuff said!

11 and 12
June 20, 2012 1:35 pm

some ppl put on makeup b4 shabbos/yom tov and it stays on until after shabbos /yom tov ends

Thank you Mrs. Lerman!!!!!!
June 20, 2012 12:42 pm

Please don´t take to heart those comments written by people who simply don´t have their priorities straight
Notice how most people have been wating for someone like you to take the stand
THANK YOU!

whoa!
June 20, 2012 12:32 pm

in response to those claiming it is not the chabad way: i think that there is a difference with rebuking and enforcing a rule. when she stands in front of the school she is enforcing a school rule for the sake of our children and community and is not trying to rebuke you. . . and to 142 i personally feel more comfortable in black tights than in socks or stockings so for me it is a matter of comfort vs. body image

wheres the love?
June 20, 2012 12:29 pm

I’m male… I behave and dress modestly in my life as do my wife and children. All in the letter and spirit of halacha, hantzna leches etc etc. In general I believe most of the tznius problem emanates from the men so I do my part. To the self described “tznius lady”: I would reccomend you focus on improving yourself first and foremost and if you truly love someone then by all means encourage them to become better as well… The problem is that while your heart is seemingly in the right place you miss the big picture. I think… Read more »

AGREE WITH #104
June 20, 2012 12:17 pm

LIFE HAS COME DOWN TO THIS MAD TZNIUS WAR BECAUSE OUR PEOPLE HAVE COMPLETELY LOST THE PLOT!!!!

A Change of Focus
June 20, 2012 12:06 pm

Perhaps those who are insecure about their own body image feel the need to cover it up with such precision. I’m sorry, but in today’s 105 degree CH weather, I am burdened to see women wearing black tights and long-sleeved sweaters. Tznius is not about covering up every ounce of skin on our bodies… it’s about respecting yourself, having a positive self-image, and dressing with dignity. Dress in a way that makes you feel vibrant, happy, beautiful, and positive about life!

Yehuda
June 20, 2012 12:04 pm

She is Truly Tznius, I Never knew she existed, That is the Meaning of Tznius

Read Bereshis 38:25
June 20, 2012 11:58 am

Rashi explains that Tamar was willing to be burnt alive rather than embarrass Yehudah, and from here we learn that it is preferable for a person to be throw into a fiery furnace rather than embarrass someone.

PRACTICAL SUGGESTION
June 20, 2012 11:30 am

I already wrote a comment, but I keep thinking about it. From seeing the amount of comments in such a short t ime -I think we need a seperate forum/blog/site to discuss/vent etc about tznius. Everyone is so passionate about it – both those who want improvement and those who feel hurt. We need a place where we can share our frustration, struggles, ideas for improvement, questions asked anon and answered by mashpiios/rabbanim with sensitivity ,halachos, stories articles and inspiration all on this topic, but it needs to be a safe place for those struggling, and inviting for those who… Read more »

maybe col should put up the tape onlive thanks
June 20, 2012 11:29 am
Amazing!
June 20, 2012 11:27 am

What an inspiration! Women like Mrs. Lerman bring hope to our lost world.

I don't remember nailpolish being in the Shulchan Aruch
June 20, 2012 11:25 am

There’s nothing immodest or “nisht tzniusdikke” about dark colors on your nails. The article kept saying how its all about halacha but there were way too many assumptions made to be only concerned with the straight-up-wrong.

Question for Mrs.Lerman
June 20, 2012 11:24 am

I live in a small community. What do I say when the head Shluchos and their daughters wear their skirts to short?

Fat legs
June 20, 2012 11:07 am

I cnt understand why woman want to show off fat legs scars and problems wuith their feet. They would look better if they covered up their imperfections

We need some volunteeers on Kingston for the summer
June 20, 2012 11:05 am

Mi Lahashem Alei. Come forth valiant woman and stand on Kingston. Like the slogan goes. If you see somthing say somthing

lol
June 20, 2012 10:50 am

comedy central

Sources in Halacha
June 20, 2012 10:31 am

The halachos of Tznius are published in sefer Kvuda Bas Melech by Rabbi Moshe Wiener. The sefer is endorsed by the greatest halachic authorities of our times, including the major Rabonei Anash. There is an English section. The CH Beth Din sent a letter to all Anash encouraging them to support the reprinting of this sefer, but so far very few have responded.

yearning for better days...........
June 20, 2012 10:19 am

………Wwhen things were simpler.thte yetzer haara to look fashionaable is very big today….the ‘finest’ and ‘best’ wear short pencil skirts,and somehow its become ‘acceptable’.
IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!!PLEASE!!!give a thought to the younger generation thaat are looking at you.halacha is halachaa no matterr what century we are in!!you can look just as good with a longer skirt,closed neck,etc.fashion is not an excuse for not keeping basic halacha.aannybody who is unsure about what the halavchos are,can easily look them up or talk to a mashpia.
Gimmel tamuz is coming.let’s try to improve.there is so much at stake.
A heartbroken lubavitcher

you won't have much luck.
June 20, 2012 10:16 am

I don’t want to be coerced to dress a certain way if I myself am not at that level. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. you can’t force people to follow you like sheep. it will NEVER work. Also #19: “for every head that a Jewish women causes to turn, she pays a severe price after 120 as well as now. Every time a man gazes into her eyes, the zohar says that a piece of her Neshama goes to him.” this is b.s. there is a reason the zohar isn’t supposed to be learned until you are 40. BARELY ANY OF US… Read more »

shock
June 20, 2012 10:11 am

i am in shock that tznius is being put before the fact that you may be imbarrassing someone, it is neither your place nor your right to tell people how to dress, these peopple choose everyday to be religious and should be respected for that. its not easy, just because you are at that place in your life, doesnt mean everyone is. and noone should be forced to do anything, especially when it comes to their spirituality and service to G-d, that has to come from a true, sincere and loving place. you telling people something so personal about what… Read more »

104 has brains in the right place!
June 20, 2012 10:09 am

thank you!

Iran, it's here!
June 20, 2012 10:07 am
116
June 20, 2012 9:55 am

Ye, because this one actually has some relevance. It is encouraging to see that people care some way or other.

Friends are supposed to be "cool", teachers are different.
June 20, 2012 9:51 am

Amazing! but you lost me a bit when you said… “That Friday night, I dreamt that I saw this student walking in the street with pants on. On Shabbos day, after a Pirkei Avos shiur, I told my friends what had happened and what I learned from it all. I didn’t speak to the girl, not only because I didn’t want to embarrass her, but because I didn’t want to appear not cool. I knew that the girl liked me and I didn’t want her to think of me as an annoying, nagging teacher. When we don’t speak up it… Read more »

To 111
June 20, 2012 9:48 am

There are halachic reasons (Hotza on Shabbos, based on Igros Moshe and others) for leaving shirts untucked.

Yochi G
June 20, 2012 9:48 am

heh.
“I was shaking and crying”
“I was crying”

Bet you don’t give a hoot about what the women and girls you police every day do once they’re out of your eyesight. I bet it doesn’t matter one single iota if they break down crying at home, have panic or nervous attacks or whatever.

Does that matter to “lady Tznius” eh?

Thats the Merirus and Hirhur Teshuva the Kakla penimaah d’lo ishtama that the Rebbe Rashab discusses at the beginning of Samech Vav. Nothing to worry about there…

WRONG APPROACH
June 20, 2012 9:45 am

these women that are not dressing in a tzniyus manner would very likely be more influenced by a reprimand coming from a young, handsome man. being as this is exactly who they are trying to impress in the first place, perhaps if this man would tell them they look ugly dressed like this, and perhaps a longer skirt would make them more attractive, they would respond more positively.
for those that think that this is a tzniyus issue, note that reb yochanan would sit outside where the women were…

Well intentioned, but grossly misguided
June 20, 2012 9:44 am

I have read and reread shulchan aruch, and nowhere do I see any discussion of dark colored nail polish. Is that really the biggest issue here? The point that Mrs. Lerman and so many other well intentioned but grossly misguided souls are missing is this – the more you push the extreme, the more people will push back. Chabad today is becoming less and less the Chabad I knew and grew up with. We have become petty, we’ve become intolerant, we’ve become overly judgmental, we’ve started to demonize anyone who we think it not up to par, we write off… Read more »

Kol Hamoisif Goreah
June 20, 2012 9:39 am

Where does it say in halachah that you cant wear black nail polish. By adding unnecessary restrictions, you are detracting from a good cause and you make it very easy for people to categorize you as Mea Shearim, Taliban etc

Let's not be so judgemental!
June 20, 2012 9:37 am

Please don’t critisize Mrs. Lerman. I heard the speach (a recording) – It it nogea b’nefesh to her , she realy means it with an emes not in a way of “holier than thou” – the Rebbe said about shleimus Haartez – “az s’tut vei shreit men!” – when it hurts a person screams – even if this is not the most politicaly correct thing to do. I give her lots of credit for taking a stand and DOING something not just complaiining – as most of us do (myself included). I can’t imagine her shoutinig at someone , I’m… Read more »

sh'koach MrsLerman
June 20, 2012 9:23 am

Thank you so much Mrs Lerman. Perhaps girls from Beis Rivka will start looking more like Bnos Menachem talmidos.

OMG
June 20, 2012 9:07 am

This article is getting more comments than the ‘Mattisyahu reverts to being a punk’ article

Mrs Lerman you are a true chassid
June 20, 2012 9:00 am

you have gone completely out of your comfort zone to stand up for what is right. If only i could be like you…and i will try to be!
I’m sure you can take strength from knowing how proud the Rebbe must be! May Hashem bless you and your family! and may this important work you are doing bring moshiach now!!

to #110
June 20, 2012 8:54 am

Wrong analogy: Yerovom promoted religious tolerance and made it ‘ok’ for Yidden not to follow Torah. Ella is more like nevi’im of the past that reminded the Yidden about the basic truths they had abandoned.

Thank you!
June 20, 2012 8:51 am

Thank you Mrs Lerman for taking on this noble task. You are a very special person. You have the respect of many Frum people in our community for what you’ve done and will continue doing. Ashrecha V’tov Loch! How lucky you are to have the courage to take on tznius in Crown Heights. We are proud of you!

oy vey
June 20, 2012 8:51 am

Oy, I do not envy this woman… What a job.
Thank you for setting some standards, it’s about time. I really hope it’s not too late.

I am a teacher
June 20, 2012 8:48 am

I am a teacher and I have worked in a number of Jewish and non-Jewish schools. Many prestigious private school have very strict dress code. The rules are very clear. If a student doesn’t comply, guess what, he or she is not allowed into class. Parents don’t get upset with the school they take it out with their kids. How could following the most basic halochos of Shulchan Oruch be of a discussion? It isn’t about Kadesh B’Mutor loch, it is poshut ossur. Chassidus is not just an intellectual pursuit, it is a way of life. How canwe call ourselves… Read more »

Yerovom ben Nevot
June 20, 2012 8:44 am

Yerovom ben Nevod became melech because he had the “courage” to criticize Shlomo Hamelech for his religious shortcomings.

We see how well that worked out.

Rochel
June 20, 2012 8:36 am

Thank you, thank you, thank you….it’s about time!! When a woman has to put a schmatta over her lap in shul because her skirt/dress is too short, she should be told…..I am going to give her a copy of your article!! Kol HaKovod

Learn from those who do it better
June 20, 2012 8:28 am

Perhaps Lubavitch schools could take a leaf out of the non-Lubavitch ones. They seem to have their tznius better controlled. Not just by how they dress….

I dont understand
June 20, 2012 8:25 am

Going green is a choice, going tsnius is not, so stop giving green exampels.

Woman on Kingston
June 20, 2012 8:23 am

We need a few woman to stand on Kingston Ave and remind the women tp dress properly

Been there, Done that...thanks for taking a stand publicly
June 20, 2012 7:15 am

First of all I am surprised that this article has not been on Collive before today. Although I am a Shlucha I missed your talk at the Kinus. I am certain many others did too. Glad to see it here. This is probably the best gift we can give our Rebbe! I am sure that many of us have experienced situations that put us to the test, on either side of the fence. I found myself taking a stand with a Shliach regarding office staff. A particular sect’y was not dressing tzniyusdik and working in a Chabad office with Shluchim.… Read more »

The girl you call "immodest" is crying out for s/thing
June 20, 2012 5:15 am

Don’t be fooled that it boils down to rules being enforced! The girl who’s slowly shedding her tznius is silently asking you for far deeper assistance than tznius discipline. Perhaps, if mechanchim could start listening to their students; relating to them on a real level; promoting authenticity in yiddishkeit rather than a flawless reputation; dignifying the challenge that students/families have rather than shaming; addressing emotional, psychological and intimate issues frankly; then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t have to run around town like chickens without heads, trying to put the concept of tznius back on the map. WAKE UP CROWN HEIGHTS!… Read more »

A Mother of Beth Rivkah Students:
June 20, 2012 5:10 am

I have daughters out of BR already, and daughters who are still in HS and Elementary…. I have worked hard throughout the years to ensure my daughters follow the proper way in every aspect of their conduct/dress/speech. Baruch Hashem, it has paid well!! BUT… no matter how much I convey to my daughters, most of their waking hours/day time is spent at school. I want to share something that happen just this past Sunday (6/17/12). I was coming back from shopping w/ one of my highschoolers and accross us in the subway car was one of the 12th grade teachers… Read more »

to #23
June 20, 2012 3:59 am

thank you

And you wonder why?
June 20, 2012 3:51 am

And you wonder why so many people go off track. When I moved to crown heights I was religious. I dressednuobserved the Jewish laws.

Sheitels
June 20, 2012 3:16 am

I know many frum women, who take tznius seriously, who look presentable and represent Lubavitch properly.
But their Sheitels are long, silky and sleek.
And there is nothing wrong.
This is something the older women have a hard time with, because in their day Sheitels were made out of straw, and therefore didn’t go past shoulder length.
Maybe a rov can pasken what is the appropriate length?

kol hakovod
June 20, 2012 2:36 am

most important mivtza for the future of our girls

shulchan aruch
June 20, 2012 2:29 am

stop screaming shulchan aruch because the shulchan aruch does not say you should tell women please leave cause your not dressed modestly enough, and the rebbe definitely never did anything of the sort by dollars etc.

To #18 and #54
June 20, 2012 2:19 am

The Shulchan Aruch’s laws of Tznius pertain exclusively to men, mandating how they are to behave. Women’s Tznius is for the most part defined by the community.
The yenta haters who don’t like this community’s new standards just resent they’re too unattractive to dress this way.

italy
June 20, 2012 2:18 am

let me add a little detail, we in italy have a very hard time, keeping our girls away from what they see in the street, not against halacha, but the ”look”, very in ”style”, and then comes a day exp. chof beis shvat etc, and they come back from ch, with ”news” for their mom, ”you have to see how girls get dressed…” some girls are not from frum fam, and let me tell you we have a very hard time explaining why ch looks the way it does. think when you get dressed that your actions go very far,… Read more »

Dear #4
June 20, 2012 2:12 am

Time to take a good look at yourself in the mirror and see
how you can and should improve . Instead of getting offended
please realize that the Laws of Tznius apply to you as well.

oh well
June 20, 2012 2:07 am

I started to read this article with an open mind,but when i came across a certain point i completely switched off.All through the article Mrs Lerman keeps stating that woman should adhere to halacha-which noone can argue with.Then she states “why should woman look up to other woman if they have dark nail varnish and long shaitels”.This is not a halachic issue but a personal opinion and the Rebbe ZTL would never have brought up such subject.So in affect the woman who challenged her was right in saying stick to black and white and not grey areas.When we as a… Read more »

May Hashem shower you & yours with abundant blessings!
June 20, 2012 1:53 am

What a Hartzigue piece!
Mrs. Ella Lerman, you are a true Eshes Chayil.
A valiant Chayal/soldier of the Rebbe –
Courageous, forthright, full of caring and Mesirus Nefesh.
I am proud to call consider you my friend and treasure your efforts on behalf of this noble cause – Tznius
With great respect and admiration,
Molly Resnick
Bnos Melech B’Yachad

MRS LERMAN, BE BLESSED!
June 20, 2012 1:49 am

TO: 4, 14, 20 ETC. SURELY YOU HEARD OF THE BURGLAR WHO BROKE INTO A HOME, FELL AND BROKE SOME BONES.. HE SUED THE OWNER FOR HIS INJURIES?!?. THE LADIES “WALKING THE STREETS” INAPPROPRIATELY DRESSED IN THIS SCHUNA ARE BREAKING IN AND THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT THE NEGATIVE RESPONSE SAYING IT CAUSES THEM EMBARRASSMENT?. C’MON GALS, YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE BURGLAR.. YOU BREAK IN WITH IMPROPER DRESS AND BEHAVIOR AND EXPECT RESPECT????? WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE?? DO YOU ENJOY THE ATTENTION FROM SOMEONE ELSE’S SPOUSE? R U HAPPY WHEN YOUR’S IS BUSY EYING ANOTHER GAL STRUTING… Read more »

Anonymous
June 20, 2012 1:27 am

“but I asked for the job of tznius lady. I told Bais Rivkah that someone needed to stand in front of their doors and tell mothers that they couldn’t enter if they were not dressed according to Jewish law, and I offered to do the job.” All due respect to Mrs. Lerman but it seems she enjoys policing other peoples lives instead if her own – she even asked to do it. She would be well served working on her own tzinius, acting as a living example, then pointing out flaws to other people – especially young emotionally sensitive girls/children.… Read more »

anonymouse
June 20, 2012 1:12 am

gr8 article

We Are Love Deficient!
June 20, 2012 12:57 am

“Well, it is my Rebbe, my Rebbe’s community, my Eibershter and my Torah that is being disgraced. I can’t just sit at home!” What about the love deficiency in our community? How many children, teens and even adults are neglected, shunned and even rejected every day?! There are so many people in our neighborhood with no true friends, nobody who loves them and is there for them when they are in distress, they have no shoulder to cry on, nobody to rely on! Often many of these people do not conform to the rules of our community. Their non-conformity is… Read more »

teach
June 20, 2012 12:52 am

unless you teach the lady’s and girls why they are so special as a bas yisroel it wont matter any tznius halacha you demand of them.
the schools need to show and explain what they are about.

hatzlocho
June 20, 2012 12:50 am

what annoys me is that this avaira is done ‘maizid. we don’t do any aveira purposely, knowingly. you cannot compare this to loshon horo or lying, there is always some self justification ut to get dressed purposely agaist the rules???I guess it is quite a struggle, Hasehm yaazor!

to #31
June 20, 2012 12:47 am

ive seen stupid comments in the past but u my friend deserve a metal!

#36
June 20, 2012 12:37 am

#36 hit the bullseye. I’d love to hear success stories of girls who were seriously out of line tznius-wise who were impacted and influenced for the better by this approach. Ch”v to dispute Halacha – tznius is tznius.

But this approach is the opposite of that classic Israeli expression: al tehi tzodek, tihiye chacham. B’chochma isberiru….

guess what?
June 20, 2012 12:25 am

i am married. i admit i wear shorter and tighter skirts/lower necklines/leggings etc. but in my daughters class(shes in 7th grade) the “chassidish ones” the ones who have chabad houses, who dress tznius, who are the “good girls” they talk about billboards,celebritiesetc. they go out to manicures as if they are older. i dont have a tv. my kids cant read non jewish book or hear non jewish music. and guess where she finds out all the juicy info in the world? from the chassidish girls who are on the best daveners , do chesed etc.

When the Rebbe was around...
June 20, 2012 12:23 am

I love when Ppl say if the Rebbe was around he wouldnt be so radical…I was around when the Rebbe was, and no one dear dress the way women do today. There was a different energy in the neighborhood. Being “modern” was wearing bobby socks on top of tights!!!! Kol hakavod to Ella Lerman, for trying to restore our community! I bet living next door to the Rebbes house inspires you to return our neighborhood to the way it used to be.

wow!
June 20, 2012 12:17 am

this is a bit off firstly maybe for you but tznius is a very hard thing for alot of ppl yes the laws are black and white but remember i dont know about you rebetzin but ppl are only human and maybe you should give lectures or s/t screaming at ppl will only turn them off. who knows you could have already turned ppl away from yidishkeit. it has nothing to do wth that plane moshel you said thats ridiculos i know you have the right intentions but your wish will only be fulfilled if you do it properly. GIVE… Read more »

for all those who
June 20, 2012 12:03 am

are saying “hello…welcome to 2012!!” this is almost exactly what immigrants said when they came to america.

“hello…welcome to america! being frum was part of the old country! nobody cares what you have to say!”
but people do care. look at the changes that have happpened because the Rebbe said “america is NISHT andersh!” same thing, 2012 is nisht andersht

Yasher Koach!!!
June 20, 2012 12:01 am

Keep it up Mrs. Lerman! I’m shocked that people are even refuting this article- I guess they feel guilty so they feel the need to defend!
Don’t be nispa’el! YOU are bringing Moshiach!

wow!
June 20, 2012 12:00 am

I’ve heard mrs lerman speak 3 tammuz several years ago, and I wish that she would type that WHOLE speech on this website. the torah teaches us what to be proud of, and what to be embarassed of. when the torah teaches about ishas sotah, it says that removing the hair covering is embarassing. if someone decides to walk in CH with their hair uncovered, according to torah, she should be embarassed. it’s quite sad that a person has to be told that they’re doing an embarassing action. the woman is so disensitized! if the woman has to be told… Read more »

Will it work? Positivity Works!
June 19, 2012 11:57 pm

You’re right, but probably not effective. Let’s tackle this problem by shining a light.

First by feeling and displaying unconditional love to others, and then explaining the beauty of tzniyus:

By dressing tzniyusdikly we are allowing our inner personality and character to shine through, sending the message that we have a lot more to offer than just our appearances.

Out-of-towmer
June 19, 2012 11:49 pm

THANK YOU!!! YOU ARE DOING WHAT I WAS TOO EMBARESSED TO DO. I LIVE OUT OF TOWN AND EVERY TIME I COME BACK TO CROWN HEIGHTS, I AM SHOCKED AS TO HOW SOME WOMAN DRESS. The other day, my husband was on the street and a young lady was walking with chilren. Hw said that he doesn’t know if she was married or not, but did look like she forgot to put on her skirt. He and an other man gave each other looks. “i can’t walk in Crown HEIGHTS. It’s much worse than Florida. ” He coulnd’t hold himself… Read more »

To Ella Lerman
June 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Chazak V’Ematz. Now, if only someone can impress on the men how important it is for their wives to dress tzniusdikly, 80% of the problem would disappear.

Men, it is in your hands!!

To #21 and #41
June 19, 2012 11:42 pm

Good comments! Tznius is also about privacy and should be discussed with individuals on an individual basis, in a friendly way. Some females who have problems of tznius may have had a home that may not have been strong in yiras Shomoyim. Others may have been turned off because of experiences with teachers who though dressed tznius were disrespectful to the student. If someone is forced to do something, like wear tznius clothing in a school atmosphere, it does not mean that she has internalized the need for doing it when not pressured to do so. I think the mashpia… Read more »

thank you mrs lerman!
June 19, 2012 11:40 pm

and anyone who works on improving tznius.
actually- it is those that dont dress tznius that are humiliating us as lubavitchers and are not “the lubavitch way”. i dont understand how ppl dress in an insulting way to lubavitch- then point to those who are trying to help and say “that’s not lubavitch way??”
anyway, i was shocked to see how teachers can dress in the streets and for that reason cannot send my daughters to that school. Baruch Hashem for those who set standards for their teachers and students and enforce them!

Please consider
June 19, 2012 11:36 pm

I’ll start with the positive, It’s nice to see a COL article with a name. It shows that you stand up for what you believe. Kol Hakavod. Also, I can agree with the school enforcing their rules, they have a right to. Here are a few things that you should strongly consider, 1) It is not okay to label “dark nail polish” and you’re own standards of tzniyus, as against halacha 2) It is rather peculiar that you have to tell a teacher about about her nail polish. Either the teacher is a good, chassidishe teacher which in that case… Read more »

#54
June 19, 2012 11:33 pm

i don’t know who you asked,
Take the time and $ to buy a book called עוז והדר לבושה by Rabbi Elyau Falk. has the halochos and sources for every halocha under the sun (in tznius) don’t blame any aveiros on ignorance of yourself and others.

for example: having the skirt covering your knee even when sitting. is written by our rebbe brought in lekutei sichos!

Re: #4
June 19, 2012 11:30 pm

The point is that humiliating people was not and is not the Rebbe’s Shita. It is wrong to single people out and humiliate them. Most importantly, it is also ineffective!

Thank-you!
June 19, 2012 11:29 pm

Thank-you to a brave woman who is taking a stand. I am from out of town and wonder how the standards have fallen so low. I wish her much success.

to # 1-
June 19, 2012 11:26 pm

there’s great lasting makeup – both water proof and not- revlon- eyeliner last almost 3 days!

to #4
June 19, 2012 11:25 pm

Your story about a non-frum girl wearing pants to the Rebbe MH”M has no connection at all to “supposedly” frum girls in Beis Rivka.

hello
June 19, 2012 11:21 pm

i dont think it is anyone bisniss of how people dress wellcome to 2012 people no one is like that any more!

oh this is exagerated
June 19, 2012 11:20 pm

i am a girl in a frum chassidish family… dress tznius etc. first of all long sheitels are NOT BAD, 2nd of all the comment about “does ella care if the people she criticizes cry, ” i agree. be sensitive. also to all the comments about makeup on shabbos there are makeups you can put on on shabbos. ella, its good what your doing but do it gently. not because all you care about is how chabad dresses. because then the girls and women will most probably go against what you say.

to #25
June 19, 2012 11:15 pm

rebuking someone comes from love. parents would rebuke their children and not other children for doing something wrong because they love them. if you dont love or even care about someone, then you wont want to rebuke them.

HAKERES HA TOV
June 19, 2012 11:14 pm

Our lives may not be perfect, but we all have so many brochos BH – health, food, homes, families etc. All of these brochos come to us from HaShem. Maybe I’m very simple, but I view dressing tzniusly as a way to personally say “thank you” to HaShem for all the good that He has benched me with. After all, you don’t spit at someone after they have given you beautiful presents and to me, dressing in a cheap manner is showing yourself to be ungrateful. By the way, I’ve unfortunately observed how our male non-Jewish neighbors here in Crown… Read more »

seriously?!?!
June 19, 2012 11:14 pm

how long are we gonna keep hiding behind this ”we didn’t grow up with a rebbe” thing?? what is being spoken about here is basic halachah!!!!!!

an overtired 19 yr old

Disgusting!
June 19, 2012 11:11 pm

I have a point to make, I was once picking my daughter up from school, when I saw this woman with a tichel, and a stroller, wearing leggings and a short flary almost MINI skirt, and a long sleeve sweater, waiting in the lobby of the school for her daughter. I got my daughter and walked outside, when I saw this same woman waiting at the crosswalk. It was a hot day, and she quickly took off her sweater, revealing underneath a short sleeve shirt. I was shocked! She just stood there, in the street, with a tichel on her… Read more »

You are awesome!
June 19, 2012 11:02 pm

Kol Hakavod Mrs. Lerman!!

I live in Flatbush
June 19, 2012 11:00 pm

And because I am Lubavitch I get approached by many who ask me about it. What can I say Crown Heights tznius is a laughing stock in Flatbush. It is an emergency. Get out of your box and listen to what outsiders think of Crown Heights tznius and belive me you will be shocked to your core.

kol Hakovod!!
June 19, 2012 10:59 pm

yes we must stand up. As a shlucha and camp director I learned to say something right away to counselors that are not dressed properly. I also learned to look for counselors who care about tznius!!

TO MR. MEA SHEARIM
June 19, 2012 10:58 pm

See this video of our Rebbe- enforcing tznius- while in a classy chabad style

http://www.chabad.org/1547902

(copy and paste link, as it won’t work otherwise)

PLEASE ELLA DON'T READ THESE COMMENTS
June 19, 2012 10:56 pm

and if you must, then don’t take them to heart
there is something ugly about anonymous nasty vicious comments
truly ugly
Ella – keep doing what’s right and don’t read anonymous comments

maybe talk the girls language
June 19, 2012 10:56 pm

there should be a special curriculum made for tznius…….not just from a halachic perspective which is important- but also from a psychological perspective. maybe if girls and ladies understood the consequences of dressing immodestly how it can make their daughters go after boys at a young age….. or loose the whole feeling for what they are learning about all day …it may change things…. when a child sees his mother rebelling against the basic rules of our culture then they have the green light to rebel against their parents and get into all sorts of trouble… the concept of reverse… Read more »

HALOCHO
June 19, 2012 10:54 pm

To #50, #4 and whoever else….

see a few articles down…

there is a booklet with lots of the halochos
by 6 Lubavitche Active Rabonim!!!
that is Halacha, “Dvar Hashem!”

here’s the link:

https://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=20527&alias=for-download-tznius-booklet

and see the discussions (so you don’t need to over-chew old discussions…

https://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=20494&alias=tznius-booklet-adds-questions

DON’T CLICK THE LINK, -JUST COPY AND PUT INTO ADDRESS BAR

Where in Shulchan Aruch
June 19, 2012 10:52 pm

I’ve asked quite a few people for the sources in Shulchan Aruch for the neckline and the elbows and knees and none were able to provide them to me.
If anybody cares to share the sources of the Halachas of Tznius from Shulchan Aruch it would be appreciated.

malca b
June 19, 2012 10:50 pm

ella,

i am PROUD to call you a friend and proud of the fact you are now the TZNIUS LADY, a job most fitting you as i have never seen you NOT tznius.

i have pondered this problem in our neighborhood and could not figure out who to turn to, am glad to know i can now turn to you. B’H

only hatzlacha in your new position and dont let those who complain get to you – they complain cause the know how they dress is wrong

are the teachers tznius?
June 19, 2012 10:47 pm

before you ask parents and the girls to be tznius, please ask your teachers to wear skirts that when they sit the knees don’t show. its very hard for a mother to explain that to her daughter.

#48
June 19, 2012 10:43 pm

IF YOUR a youngerman perhaps u want to see the untznius??

#4 learn sulchan aruch
June 19, 2012 10:33 pm

you are right this is not Meah Shiarim, this is CH the Rebbes place and as such we have to dress the the Rebbe wants us to dress, the Rebbe once told Rabbi Yisroel Rosenfeld O”H “that we can learn from Williamson how woman should dress. so don’t fabricate stories that the Rebbe would feel comfortable with the way some people dress today.

Thank You
June 19, 2012 10:31 pm

I will have to admit. I don’t plan to take action by speaking up to my untznius neighbor at the next opportunity, but this is definitely a wake up call for my own situation, over which I will be much more careful. Instead of thinking about our comfort level today, we need to think about the future of our daughters who will lack a sensitivity towards tznius if they see the way we are handling it now.

Photographer
June 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Do you need a photographer to take pictures of everyone wearing low cut tops and short skirts? I’ll be happy to help.

-Concerned Yungerman

Tzinius and its effects
June 19, 2012 10:29 pm

I highly respect any woman who dresses tznius, and fashionably. You are true role models. I’m sure everyone can think of a girl / lady who looks great and in style and at the same time is following the laws of tzniyus. That is Cool. Thats something to respect. For the lubavich girls and woman who do not follow the laws of tzniyus..please realize how Uncool you look and the damage you are doing not only to yourself but to others around you. Not only are you influencing other girls or woman to follow in your ways… but do you… Read more »

Eventually One is doing what must be done!
June 19, 2012 10:24 pm

This should the school law, you should not be able to send your kids to school if your dressed not according the Jewish law.

Mothers who don’t dress tznius, should need to pay FULL PRICE for tuition. No discount should be allowed for those who destroy our jewish Chabad values.

Time has come to take serious action. A shame on Chabad that we’ve reached so low… The rebbe would have had so much agmus nefesh….

To number one I hope you read this.
June 19, 2012 10:21 pm

I hope you know if you put on makeup you are literally being mechalel shabbos! Those women- I know what you mean- are going DIRECTLY against Hashem!

Please please PLEASE do not put on makeup- even if it makes you feel better.

Thank you!

p.s- there is such a thing as long-lasting makeup- if you put it on friday night it should last till shabbos ends.

HATZLOCHO!!+

No more excuses
June 19, 2012 10:11 pm

Stop hiding behind “this is not the rebbes way” the rebbe educated us that everything must be in accordance with Shulchan aruch. End of story.what this lady is doing is saving neshomos years ago when you put on teffilin you were made fun and had rocks thrown at you, so today when you demand tznius your spat at etc. but in the end you will succeed and the detractors will fade like the rock throwers. Keep saving the neshomos it’s the chabad way!

Oholie Torah bocher
June 19, 2012 10:11 pm

I still believe that bochrim having a qwerty keyboard phone is much worse of an issue, and needs to be addressed first!

kol hakavod!!!
June 19, 2012 10:07 pm
this is exactly why the girls dress the way they do.
June 19, 2012 10:05 pm

I really don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings but this is the reason why these girls will go out of their way and dress worse, than what you have seen them with. You don’t know who they are, or where they are coming from. maybe today shes covering something she didn’t cover yesterday but all you will see is what she is not doing good today. This s is why crown heights is the way it is. The girls these days are coming from such a different place than these teachers are. I don’t know if you remember but we… Read more »

Dear # 4
June 19, 2012 10:04 pm

We are not speaking here about someone who unknowingly wears pants or other immodest garments. Of course the Rebbe showed us how to be sensitive and patient with those who do not yet know the Halachos of the Torah. For those of us who are lucky enough to be brought up in Chssidishe Yiddishe homes, and know what is proper and Halachically correct, there are no excuses. We must take greater care in our own tznius, and try to find a way to reach the girls and women who find tznius challenging, and impart to them the value and beauty… Read more »

Why do you do it?
June 19, 2012 10:04 pm

“…I asked for the job of tznius lady. I told Bais Rivkah that someone needed to stand in front of their doors and tell mothers that they couldn’t enter if they were not dressed according to Jewish law, and I offered to do the job. My family was not excited about this. “Many women would get angry at me. They’d yell at me and give me dirty looks (one woman even spat at me). When I was done, I’d sit in my car, shaking and sometimes crying. One woman yelled at me, “How dare you tell me what to wear?”… Read more »

Thank you #25
June 19, 2012 10:04 pm

Mrs Lerman please make sure that your excellent words
are filled with love and patience so it will have the effect
you want and we all need.

To #4
June 19, 2012 10:01 pm

You speak without a clue
This is Lubavitch the only thing here is shulchan arch don’t try to pull the shlichus kiruv card. If you want to be treated like mekurev then live near a Chabad house in crown heights we follow shulchan aruch! The rebbe expects nothing less so don’t pull the kiruv card. Enough!

What Kind of Name is That?
June 19, 2012 10:01 pm

Perhaps if you were known as the ‘Kindness Lady’ and you championed Tznius you would be more successful…

Thank you #25
June 19, 2012 10:00 pm
heh.
June 19, 2012 9:55 pm

“I was shaking and crying”
“I was crying”

Bet you don’t give a hoot about what the women and girls you police every day do once they’re out of your eyesight. I bet it doesn’t matter one single iota if they break down crying at home, have panic or nervous attacks or whatever.

Does that matter to “lady Tznius” eh?

reply to 31
June 19, 2012 9:50 pm

The Torah is as relevant today as it ever was. Why be ashamed to look like a modest Jew. Who decided it’s cool to dress like cheap shmutz

power vs purpose
June 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Absolute power … If your self appointed position of sole police, judge & jury is so Nobel and vital, then bring others in with your efforts to ensure proper checks andbalances. This would help your efforts ultimately while removing legitimate criticism that you are power hungry while hiding behind “theRebbe’skavod”

Enjoy yourself.
June 19, 2012 9:38 pm

It’s cute that you think anyone cares what you think welcome to 2012.

A Shliach
June 19, 2012 9:35 pm

It’s Trying to chase the dark with a stick 
It’s not going to change anything or improve better education 
If they would get better education and know more about our values they would deffently pass it on to the next generation 

Teacher and menahim should believe in chinuch and do it just for a job to pay theire bill
If that’s the case pasut u r killing neahamos every day of you paycheck and who know how many effort the rebbe would have to put to get this kids back on track from theire darkness

Kol hakavod
June 19, 2012 9:34 pm

Very true!

inspired!!
June 19, 2012 9:18 pm

mrs lerman i really look up to you and admire you

thank's
June 19, 2012 9:17 pm

a lot , keep up doing good for the shchuna , we need it very much , i start to see there is reform people living in ch

Thank you Mrs. Lerman
June 19, 2012 9:17 pm

I wish I had the guts to do what you do. So many times I am on Kingston and am simply appalled at the mini skirts and low necks. And I’m from the more fashionable people out there, but the standards have gone way to low. Please, Please to all reading this. When you find yourself putting on that skirt that is a few inches above your knees – please rethink it. Dont wear it. What will be with our daughters in a few years? When they see adults around them dressing this way, what standards will they have in… Read more »

How to Rebuke the Chabad way
June 19, 2012 9:13 pm

The Alter Rebbe is very clear about how one must rebuke a fellow Jew if they are not behaving in accordance to Halacha. In Perek 32 in Tanya the Alter Rebbe writes: (Translation from ‘Lessons in Tanya’ by Rabbi Y. Wineberg) “Of this situation Hillel said, 12 “Be one of the disciples of Aharon, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving creatures and drawing them near to the Torah.” “This usage of the term “creatures” in reference to human beings means that even those who are far from G‑d’s Torah and His service, for which reason they are classified simply as… Read more »

kol hakavod!!!
June 19, 2012 9:13 pm

i wish it will be more pepole like you in c.h.
i am sure that all the negative commoents will be from the untznius pepole..because who has a chutzpa to say somthing negative about such a true article?
its became a “chilul hashem” latest and i wish you should sucseed in your job.

yes and no
June 19, 2012 9:11 pm

time that those who dress inappropriately in the Rebbe’s Shchuna feel a sense of embarrassment. stop worrying about embarrassing them they are already an embarrassment to the aibishter and to all bnos yisroel. furthermore, do you not stop a kid eating treif, speaking loshon hora, cursing etc. because you may embarrass them? you kidding me. of course it’s embarrassing. the sotah procedure was very embarrassing but done by the kohanim who were sensitive and loved every Jew. we need more Mrs. Lerman’s on the Street. (of course i’m not referring to the few uneducated ppl visiting or living in CH… Read more »

so sad
June 19, 2012 9:11 pm

Its so sad that ppl would tell you off for trying to make this world a better place. Yosher koach for your time effort and dedi ation is all very much appreciated.

Daily Dose of Wisdom More on How to Criticize
June 19, 2012 9:08 pm

If this person you feel an urge to criticize is not yet your close friend, you’ll need to spend some time with him. Find out everything that’s good about him, and go out of your way to help him out. Eventually, a real friendship will develop Also, you’ll need to ensure that this person has the same knowledge, understanding and perspective of right and wrong as you do before you can attack his decisions. If he doesn’t, you’ll need to spend some time learning and discussing together until you see each other’s point of view. Once the two of you… Read more »

agree with #4
June 19, 2012 9:07 pm

Not very Lubavitch at all.

It high time.
June 19, 2012 9:07 pm

If the women in Crown Heights would know what the people in other communities think of the tznius level here, they would bury themselves from shame. Perfectly frum women dont bother to cover their neck bone. We are talking about basic Halacha. My husband actually was disgusted by the tight clothes worn here and said ” do they think it’s a turn on when others can practically see their arteries. For every head that a Jewish women causes to turn, she pays a severe price after 120 as well as now. Every time a man gazes into her eyes, the… Read more »

Please Provide Sources
June 19, 2012 9:05 pm

What are the sources for Hilchos Tzinius in Halacha?
I would like to study them.
Anybody reading this who knows please write the Siman and Seif in a comment.
Thank you.

Go Ella!
June 19, 2012 9:03 pm
Wow
June 19, 2012 8:59 pm

It any thing but Lubavich way. I can see number of student to be going down for next school year, and kids who do not have jewish education will be out.

Rebbe' brocha
June 19, 2012 8:57 pm

Did you open Igros Kodesh and get a brocha from the Rebbe to do this job?

Get a Life
June 19, 2012 8:57 pm

The common denominator that you and radical Islam have in common is that you both think you are fighting a holy war, and you have a right in dictating how people should live. Don’t forget they also have the same type of rules and they use the same logic.

But....
June 19, 2012 8:54 pm

I think that this is all a good idea, however, embarrassing someone does not make it okay b/c it’s in terms of Tznius. So being that this must be done, let it be done in a fashion where one won’t get embarrassed and the Rebbe would be happy to see, Thank you – Kol Hakavod!

I know
June 19, 2012 8:54 pm

There are lots of ppl who were makup
Its not allowed!

to number 1
June 19, 2012 8:43 pm

no there is no such heter. that is the most ridiculous thing ive heard.
its one of the 39 melchos. called tzavoah. u cannot put on makeup on shabbos. that is coloring ur face and against halacha

wow
June 19, 2012 8:35 pm

this is an amazign and inspiring article and even tho i am not a shlucha i will definitly make a differance

KOL HAKAVOD
June 19, 2012 8:33 pm

THANK G-D MRS. LERMAN IS TZNIUS !!!

Go Mrs. Lerman!
June 19, 2012 8:30 pm

Kol Hakovod!! Yasher Koach for saying what needs to be said!

ab ou the tsniout women
June 19, 2012 8:28 pm

i would like to say chkoyah’,it’s very true the way how she speak ,it’s true it’s enought ,im from france,i wasn’t in ch for many years ,but when i came back andi saw how the tsniut came so down,i say to myself,it’s a chaime for the rebbe and hachem,im completely agree with her ,we have to do something ,like it’s written on pirkei avos ,when there is no men tichtadel lihiot ich,it’s mean we have to do something, and appearing cool,and fun that’s not a way how to save this neighborhood,this is the quarter of the rebbe,we schould do evrything… Read more »

Mrs Lerman
June 19, 2012 8:23 pm

Your an amazing lady!!!!!! I admire u please keep doing what your doing we need more people like you !

Thank you!
June 19, 2012 8:22 pm

Thank for taking a stand even though it is not easy. When we get used to seeing what is not right we start to think there is nothing wrong with it. I really appreciate what you are doing and it will inspire me to do more. May we all be blessed with all the brochos. Bezras HaShem we should see tznius as a zchus.

Mea Shearim not Lubavitch
June 19, 2012 8:21 pm

Are you kidding me? We should not be dragging the Rebbe’s name into these coercive modesty policing tactics. She belongs in Mea Sharim. The Rebbe would never endorse coercive tactics like this. The only way to inform and inspire is through education and voluntary action. This reminds me of a story where a girl unwittingly wore pants to visit the Rebbe and only when she arrives did she realize the decorum was wearing a skirt. The Rebbe purposefully approached the girl wearing pants and gave her a dollar in order to make her feel welcome. That approach is the exact… Read more »

Kol Hakovod
June 19, 2012 8:14 pm

It is about time that some one should stand up for the rights of the Toroh and Yiddishkait, america iz nisht andersh, I really commend Mrs. lerman for her stand Chazak Chazak VeNischazek, keep it up and Hatzlocho raboh

Thank you!
June 19, 2012 8:12 pm

And may Hashem give you health and strength to continue your work and hopefully more and more women will see the importance of dressing tzniusd and your work will be less 😉

I Have a Question:
June 19, 2012 8:07 pm

Are you allowed to apply make up on shabbos and/or Yom tov
I see plenty of women wearing makeup on Shabbos and/or on three day yomtov, Is there any sort of Heter that I dont know about?
Please I really would want to know bec If I could where makeup I would feel so much better about my self!
Thank you

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