ב"ה
Wednesday, 1 Adar, 5780
  |  February 26, 2020

Ruling on Rabbi Braun’s Fate

BREAKING NEWS: A ruling has just been released over the fate of Rabbi Yossi Braun, elected to the Crown Heights Bais Din and center of controversy. Full Story

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???
Guest
???

english please?????

english??
Guest
english??

whats the final decision, i wasnt gifted with the ability to read and translate hebrew

Mazal Tov
Guest
Mazal Tov

Mazal Tov Harav Braun Shlita!

In english
Guest
In english

It means that he is the new rov despite all the reasons showing and proving that the Bechira was an inyan of “lifnei iver lo sitein michshol”

Rabbi Braun is the New Rav
Guest
Rabbi Braun is the New Rav

Mazal Tov!!

no machloikes
Guest
no machloikes

please no machloikes

according to torah:
majority rules and minority accepts.
יהי שלום בחיליך שלווה בארמנותיך

He will regret ever wanting to come here
Guest
He will regret ever wanting to come here

I feel bad for him… I really do….

Rabbi A
Guest
Rabbi A

my understanding is, that there where questions regarding R.Braun,and rabbi rosenberg finds that r.braun is eligible to be rov in ch

Shlomo
Guest
Shlomo

I hope that Harav Braun will be a real fair Rabbi, ignore the fact that people fought against him, and find smart ways to deal with the fact that 49% of the community voted against him.

Rabbi Braun is the RABBI
Guest
Rabbi Braun is the RABBI

Rabbi Braun is the 3rs Rabbi and everyone who lives in CH, are bound to his deccions, included the shomrim and other haters

99896
Guest
99896

the semichos are good.

braun is acceptable and is the winner.

the vaad have until rosh chodesh adar 1 to sign contract.

before braun comes the beis din must be in one office

any othe rdetails will be translated when the nglish story comes out

Boruch N. Hoffinger                BS"D
Guest
Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D

Rabbi Braun welcome to Crown Heights.
We need a ‘breath of fresh air.’

harav gifter
Guest
harav gifter

marich yomim al mamlactoi

No Smicha no Rav
Guest
No Smicha no Rav

Rabbi Rosenberg is 100% nogia bdovar, he was paid $250,000 and he didn’t bother to check the candidates qualification.
This ruling is his attempt to cover-up his mistakes. We will not accept Y. Braun as our rov.
Disgraceful!

Mazal Tov
Guest
Mazal Tov

didan notzach

Zabla is Zabla
Guest
Zabla is Zabla

So we may not like it but it is high time to bite the bullet and establish achdus in CH

to number 2
Guest
to number 2

nobody is. You have to learn it, like everyone else, whether it’s your first, second, or third language.

didan notazach
Guest
didan notazach

i wish him allot of success!!

mazal tov
Guest
mazal tov

Rabbi Rosenberg brought a Churban & a fire of Machloikes in CH…Thank you very much , especially when you pocketed $250.00

Chochom
Guest
Chochom

It insults our intelligence to tell us that although Tzinner was clear that he did not give Braun smicha, it should still be smicha because Braun didn’t apprise Tzinner of all the facts and Tzinner didn’t bother to inquire into them. Because of the negligence of two third parties, Crown Heights has to deal with a rov they don’t want.

Eli
Guest
Eli

Why no other signitures?? Something smells

A fact
Guest
A fact

1 thing is certain: r’ rosenberg was the wrong man for the job

next time we should have enough respect for our own, and invite lubavitch rabbonim to pasken and not outsiders

mazal tov
Guest
mazal tov

may the finally be achdus in ch

Fraud is Fraud
Guest
Fraud is Fraud

Y. Braun didn’t have Smicha at the time of the election, though he claimed he did. We voted for him based on the fact that he had Smicha. Even Rabbi Rosenberg cant give him smicha retroactively.
How can he say that he has Smicha if the person who they say gave it to him says he didn’t?!

The point in English:
Guest
The point in English:

In short – R.Rosenberg’s letter says that Rabbi Zinner’s pre-election letter supporting R. Bruan’s candidacy to the Beis Din election was actually a smicha as 1) R. Zinner was under the impression that he was fitting to be on the Beis Din, and, 2) R. Zinner used in his letter of support very similar language usage applied when giving smicha.

Thus, R. Rosenberg paskened that Rabbi Bruan indeed had smicha (from R. Zinner) before the election, and thus, was a qualified candidate for the election, and thus, is to be the third Rav of the Beis Din.

to #22,21,20 14
Guest
to #22,21,20 14

even if the Rebbe himself would say Broin is Rov YOU WOULD argue! just like with Fisher

note the definition of a sore loser
Guest
note the definition of a sore loser

google it:
A sore loser is someone who loses in a fair competition but whines about it on a constant basis, blaming everyone around them for their loss except themselves.

So all those people who are complaining about the fair election results…. More than half of CH voted for him – but he’s not your guy. That’s elections.

Rav Braun
Guest
Rav Braun

If Rav Braun is smart – he should not come. He started off on the wrong foot (even before he started). He would be foolish to actually come now!!

Wrong headline
Guest
Wrong headline

The headline should read “Rabbi Rosengberg paskens that one doesn’t need Smicha to be a Rov”!
Did i waste a year and a half learning Simcha? is it worthless?
This psak is not acceptable to the 80% of Lubavitcher yungerlite who bothered to learn Smicha.

To 21
Guest
To 21

Not always does a zablah need all signatures.
But in a case such as this there are usualy signatures from all parties. It looks like Rosenberg bulldozed this decision.

In adtion Hecht would have never never allowed the word Zatzkalah in the Pisak.

To all in CH we just got shafted by a bunch of outsiders.

Let’s hope it all works out

Where are the other?
Guest
Where are the other?

The Zabla was made up of 5 Rabbonim, where are the other 4 signatures? up until this point all the Psaks from the Zabla were signed by all of them.

Rabbi Rosenberg
Guest
Rabbi Rosenberg

Very Funny! Rabbi Rosenberg is going to TELL ME Pshat of the Rebbe’s words!! You got to be kidding!

to 22
Guest
to 22

find me unbiased lubavitcher rabonim and I’ll sponsor the din torah myself!!!

To Eli #21
Guest
To Eli #21

No signatures – something smells, is correct! He is signing “in the name” of the Beth-Din! This can not be! You mean to tell me that Rabbis Yurkovitch and Hecht wrote on the Rebbe the title “Zatxal” and “Ziya”? This is a fake!

its simple
Guest
its simple

rabbi rosenberg dosnt care he does not live in CH he just wanted the whole thing over with so he said to accept rabbi braun! and another reason why he went this way was if not then that means he made a huge mistake and will have to give back $250k

He can be A rov...
Guest
He can be A rov...

but not THE rov.
All the respect he is going to get is going to be from the few that nominated him, for all others he will just be another crown heightser.
One thing he most definitely will not accomplish is bring any semblance of respect to the beis din.

is rabbi rosenberg biased?
Guest
is rabbi rosenberg biased?

he is under 40 – came in after the deadline – was not endorsed by any rov – does not have semicha!!

Don't shot the messenger
Guest
Don't shot the messenger

Dont attack R. Rosanburg because you dont like his ruling.

explain
Guest
explain

what about the other rabbonim? since when can rosenberg do what he wants without the entire zabla? what about the lubavitch rabbonim? where do they stand?

Achdous now!
Guest
Achdous now!

To the whole community:

Please accept this and lets move forward.

Change headline
Guest
Change headline

the headline should read “Ruling on Crown Heights’ Fate”

Welcome To Crown Heights Rabbi Broin Shlt"a
Guest
Welcome To Crown Heights Rabbi Broin Shlt"a

Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu V’Rabeinu Melech Hamoshiach L’Olam Voed!

confused
Guest
confused

“…and it is the duty of the Vaad Hakohol to end the negotiations in regard to his contract no later then this coming Adar 1,” What exactly does this mean? Can he demand whatever salary he wants? What if he doesn’t feel the offer is sufficient for his needs? Will R’ Rosenberg then rule on what is an appropriate salary for a Rov in CH?

Talking About Winning Majority?
Guest
Talking About Winning Majority?

Rav Segal Shlita, Rav Zirkind Shlito, & Rav Raitport won “Twice”;;;;;;;;; First Time along With Rav Schwei Shlita, as he only ran if they would let him Run Alone; 2nd Time by Popular vote

To #s 14, 19, 20, 21, 22
Guest
To #s 14, 19, 20, 21, 22

Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don’t want to. Don’t want to accept him? Don’t. Korach didn’t accept Moshe Rabeinu. What happened to him? Good luck with that.

Mazal Tov!
Guest
Mazal Tov!

Finaly we have some closure to all this nonsence…. Hopfuly this will be a steping stone in a posotive direction, where each of the 3 Rabbonim Shlit”o will focus on servicing the needs of the community, and hopefully, with time, they will be able to cooperate with each other on issues and matters that will benefit the ENTIRE community.

Mazal Tov to Rabbi Braun Shlit”o. Yaarich Yomim Al Mamlachto

chilul hashem! laughs at all in face! shame on him!
Guest
chilul hashem! laughs at all in face! shame on him!

where is rosenbergs smicha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????

ONE BIG JOKE

dont get it
Guest
dont get it

now that we know all the facts of broin why didnt they just do a new election? why force him onto CH

A True Poisek and Manhig
Guest
A True Poisek and Manhig

Once again Rabbi Rosenberg so logically and gracefully explains his Halachic positions. He also shows once again how in just such a short time he captured the pulse of our community by answering just the things that deserved to be answered. Rabbi Rosenberg-”I voted for Rabbi Bogomilsky and I accept your Psak with true happiness.i’m looking forward for a new beginning in our community”. I ask Rabbi Schwei’s official people to please let Rabbi Schwei handle his own affairs so that the other side will be able to stomach our new situation and eventually with Hashem’s help to actually begin… Read more »

A New Beginning
Guest
A New Beginning

Now that Crown Heights has 3 Rabbonim, let us hope and pray that each will find ways that he can personally help the growth of our community. and with time, slowly, they will learn to do more things together, as a group.

Let us all help this be a new beginning for our Holy neighborhood – Kan Tziva Hashem Es Hbrocho!

Two Boti Dinim
Guest
Two Boti Dinim

Congrats Rabbi Rosenberg, you have now insured that the split in the Beis Din will now become permanent.
We will now have two Boti Dinim in CH
One Beis Din will be made up of 2 questionable Rabbonim and the second Beis Din will be made up of real, qualified Rabbonim.
I know which one i will be listening to.

Give Him a Chance!
Guest
Give Him a Chance!

Rabbi Braun is a young, dynamic Rov. Whether you campaigned for him or against him, mark my word, he will be a tremendous asset for the rapidly growing younger generation (the older generation will never stop bickering…)

Now that he is in, PLEASE don’t put unnesocery obsticles in his way, GIVE HIM A CHANCE TO PROVE HIMSELF AND SUCCEED IN BENEFITING ALL OF US!

Garbage
Guest
Garbage

To #10, By what authority do you claim that everyone who lives in CH must accept this diktat? Why should we? To #16, Zablo is “zeh borer lo echod”. We never chose any of these dayonim, we never signed a shtar borerus, so why should we accept this decision? Who gave these five the right to tell us what to do? Those who signed can deal with it as they like, but I never signed and have no intention of giving Mister Braun any kovod at all, let alone obeying his purported “psokim”. He is a fraud, and he will… Read more »

to 22
Guest
to 22

In what way is his case not clear, and why is he not proper in his ruling. The majority voted, Rabbi broun ran a smicha program…. The fact that he did not have a shmicha (if that was true) is a detail. 90 percent of the people on this forum have Shmicha. And if not for some that cannot face defeat, would and should have remained a private matter and not spoken about on forums

to 18
Guest
to 18

what didan notsach he is not a rav for starters and rosenborg is just trying to cover up
just keep quiet

#29
Guest
#29

Did you get a toutor to be able to pass the Semicha Test? Did you learn anything beyond the Mechaber, Ram”o and maybe the Bair Heiteiv to pass Semicha? Do you even know how to learn Gemoro in-depth (without artscroll)? Did you get the Euro-Pass??? just because you got semicha, do you believe you are a legitimate Talmid Chochom? Do you think you qualify to be a REAL ROV in a Frum community (not just a pulpit rabbi with a nice smile…)? By contrast, anyone that knows Rabbi Braun personally, knows he has a brilliant mind, and is a genuian… Read more »

let us grow up..
Guest
let us grow up..

I sure hope that we will be wise enough and mature enough to accept this Psak Din, and do everything in our power to assist in the success of this. OUR CHILDREN ARE AT STAKE. let us try to bring some stability to our community.

whether you voted for him or not, let us all try to help the entire Bais Din heal it’s wounds and re-establish itself “Lesheim Ulitiferes”.

Rabbi Braun Was Legitimately Elected
Guest
Rabbi Braun Was Legitimately Elected

Dispelling one claim after another, Rabbi Resenberg articulately makes his case, and that of the Beis Din he represents, for the validity of the recent Rabbonim elections. He begins his letter by quoting the four main ‘challenges’ to Rabbi Braun’s eligibility: 1. The ‘inadequate’ time to properly vet Rabbi Braun’s prior to the elections due to his late candidacy submission. 2. Rabbi Braun’s lack of Yodin Yodin ordination (Dayonus). 3. His ‘lack’ of Yoreh Yoreh (Semicha). 4. the Rebbe’s purported dictum banning a serving Rov from leaving his post. He also makes note that there were other ‘challenges’ which don’t… Read more »

TO NUMBER 14
Guest
TO NUMBER 14

NOT NICE TO SAY LOSHON HARA!

Something fishy
Guest
Something fishy

Where are the other 4 signatures?

I fully accept election results
Guest
I fully accept election results

I voted for Rabbi Moshe Bogomilsky, because I thought he was very qualified for the position. but now, I fully accept the election results and the psak din. We need to have a functioning Beis Did for the benefit of our entire community. We need to see to it that Rabbi Braun is given a fair chance to prove himself to both those who voted for Rabbi Bogomilsky and those who voted for Rabbi Brun. He is a Rov for the entire community. by badmouthing him, and trying to besmirch his name, we are stabbing ourselves in the back! our… Read more »

Yossi Engel, Australia
Guest
Yossi Engel, Australia

Reading this P’sak (ruling), especially its illuminating comments, it became clear to me that the Zabl”a B”D (A) deals logically with every issue, and (B) doesn’t gloss over any of the arguments, i.e., when it rejects an argument, it does so logically. I suggest that before before forming any opinion, and surely before commenting, you first thoroughly read the Psak – it seems quite reasoned and deliberate in reaching its conclusions. I’ll give an example for the benefit of English-only readers: [After giving sound reasons (SEE THERE) why Rabbi Tzinner’s note is a valid recognition, and thus S’micha, of Rabbi… Read more »

You need to learn how to read
Guest
You need to learn how to read

In this psak it is written clearly that:

1. Rabbi Tzinner’s letter is indeed a smicha; and

2. That Rabbi Broin has ANOTHER smicha from about a year prior to the elections and that is acceptable as well.

for the sake of our future
Guest
for the sake of our future

for the sake of our future i really hope he ends up being a fair and honest rov, one without an agenda. if he will be a fraud the future of crown heights has absolutely no hope. we are dealing with someone who was just elected for life and should he mess around our children have no hope of seeing a respectable figure in our midst. so far from what is going around rabbi braun has some “demands” such as 150k salary after being given a house and does not want the obligation of paying schar limud. this does not… Read more »

Strange
Guest
Strange

And he wants to come here after all this. Good luck. Well, most people don’t need a Rov for themselves anyways. Guess he will have plenty of time on his hands.

Mazal Tov!
Guest
Mazal Tov!

hopefully this will be the last and crown heights can move on now

DEMOCARCY
Guest
DEMOCARCY

The man was elected and got elected by the majority !

Whats he hiding?
Guest
Whats he hiding?

So now Rosenberg is calming that Braun has Smicha but he wont tell us from whom? What are they hiding?

Is Lubavitch Smicha worthless?
Guest
Is Lubavitch Smicha worthless?

@56
So you, like Rosenberg believe that Lubavitch Smicha is a waste of time?
But at least i have this worthless Smicha (like the Rebbe wanted), Braun doesn’t even have that!

Question:
Guest
Question:

How could Rav Tzinner’s letter be a “Semicha” – if Rav Tzinner himself says that…it’s NOT a Smicha?! Explain me please this dumb question please!

seventeen year old
Guest
seventeen year old

i am only seventeen yr old girl but ur comments make me embarrassed of ch. we are learning in dvarim bout zaken mamre. and the ideals that i have learnt from that inyan apply here. accept the ruling srictly because it is a majority. because if you dont then that is how torah is chas vshalom split into many interpretations. you follow what the torah tells you to do and hashem makes it right.

to #51
Guest
to #51

you probably never listened to a single psak din

A very worried observer
Guest
A very worried observer

To all of Toshvai Haschuna Shlita,
I WILL BE BRIEF AND TO THE POINT!
IF THE COMMUNITY TAKES THIS TRASH SITTING DOWN & IF THIS COMES TO BE A REALITY CH”V,
YISGADAL………

With love and concern,
A very worried observer

# 69
Guest
# 69

I may have not been very clear. many detractors point to the fact that they have semicha. what are they trying to prove by that, that because the followed the Horoah of the Rebbe, they are now Rabbonim, and Poskim, smarter then everyone else? Yes, you may have semicha, and that is great. but just because you were tested by Rabbi Yeruslavsky or others, doesn’t suddenly make you a Talmid Chacham. There are MANY MANY Lubavitcher GREAT Talmidey Chachomim and astonishing Geonim. but to be that, you need to LEARN much, much more then just the stranded semicha, you have… Read more »

voted for braun
Guest
voted for braun

i lost all respect for the rabbonim. i voted for braun thinking i was getting achdus instead look at all this machlokos he and rosenberg have caused if he was a true baal achdus he would not want to move to CH and be rov!! is this what the rebbe wants? anyone that will make machlokos is not what the rebbe wants end of story!

Moshiach Now!
Guest
Moshiach Now!

Wow, now finally we may be able to have some peace and quite.

I beg all members of our beautiful community: Please give this new Rabbi a chance to prove himself and speak for himself. we need to give him a chance to succeed…

let's be honest!
Guest
let's be honest!

Most of the community does not want him here

fresh new future
Guest
fresh new future

Why all these sour grapes. lets put the elections behind us and focus on a fresh, new future.

i hope & pray
Guest
i hope & pray

even though i wanted rabbi bogomisly to win, we need to accept the reality and hope & pray that this new rabbi does a good job for all of our shchuna

Boruch dayan emes
Guest
Boruch dayan emes

I agree with 14, that once there were question of Rabbi Rosenberg’s competence, he has become a nogeiah b’davar, and he should have been substituted for the final decision by an independent rov. Hashem yaazor.

Re: Is Lubavitch Smicha worthless? #69
Guest
Re: Is Lubavitch Smicha worthless? #69

having semicha or the lack thereof does not reflect at all at ones level of Yedias Hatorah.

Sure, the Rebbe wanted that all lubavitchers get semicha, but just because you have “only” semicha, doesn’t reflect at all as to your level of knowledge.

If you are a Talmid Chochom then you are (and probably wouldn’t spend time writing on this or any other blog). but it’s not the semicha paper that proves it…

#17 seventeen year old
Guest
#17 seventeen year old

Wow, a breath of fresh air.

We all have alot to learn from you.

#75
Guest
#75

you honestly voted for Rabbi Braun 🙂

What Machlokes did he bring here???

Nemo
Guest
Nemo

To Yossi Engel, #63 It is possible for reasonable men to differ on what amounts to sound logic, but the seamless logic you read in this psak seems errant to me. First, you quote Rosenberg’s references to certain information about the candidates in other elections that if known to the public at the time of the election might have influenced the election decision. While the election could not be invalidated in the two hypothetical examples, it can and should have been invalidated here because of the central importance the criterion of smicha is to being a rov in a community.… Read more »

CLARITY OF MIND .
Guest
CLARITY OF MIND .

ITS QUITE SIMPLE- THIS IS PSAK HALOCHO ‘RABBI BRAUN IS IN PERIOD. SO SKIP ALL THE POLITICS,AND FACE THE FACTS AS A JEW .{the politicians will NEVER stop} TORA IS TORA .ITS NOT ABOUT WHAT ME AND YOU WOULD SAY. SO LETS JUST FOLLOW THE LAW {PSAK}.AS TORA SAYS ,AND ALL WILL BE GOOD IY’H.

Not surprised
Guest
Not surprised

I didn’t think that Rosenberg would rule any differently, after all had he ruled that Braun did not have Smicha he may have had to return part or all of the $250,000 he was paid to oversee this election, a job he seems to have failed at miserably.

mazal tov r braun
Guest
mazal tov r braun

yaarich yomim al mamlachto!!!

The psak is the psak
Guest
The psak is the psak

To all the pepole who refuse to accept the psak of the zabla beis din, what connection do you have to yiddishkeit? did you ever hear of a din torah? do you beleive that in Hashgacha protis? this zabla b”d is the fairest deal possible in this case, you have 2 rabbonim chosen by each side, they chose the 5th rov and hashem caused them to hand down this psak, if you cant work with this type of beis din and accept their psak then you might as well take off your yarmulke because you dont even beleive in Sheva… Read more »

R' Broin for Rov
Guest
R' Broin for Rov

Mazal Tov!!
Im sure he will succeed… and I wish him much hatzlacha!

No Smicha is no Smicha!
Guest
No Smicha is no Smicha!

If Y. Braun really had another legitimate Smicha, why was it necessary for the psak to discuss Rabbi Tzinners so-called Smicha at all?

Concern
Guest
Concern

I did not vote for Braun but was happy to accept him. This whole episode of writing up a support letter, asking Rabbi Tzinner to sign it and then using it as smicha, makes him come across as sneaky. I don’t have a good feeling about that.

Dave
Guest
Dave

Mazal tov! This is sure good news! All the sore losers: shame on you! The Rabbonim signed the Zabla, and because you’re required to listen to and honor the rabbonim, you are bound by their binding to the decision. By signing the zabla, both Rabbonim comport with the ruling and R’ Braun is k’halocho rov of Crown Heights. And the fact that you’re already writing this way shows your true colors… If it doesn’t fit your agenda, just deny…

fried fish
Guest
fried fish

glad i dont live there…what a mess

to 46 (and others)
Guest
to 46 (and others)

This just shows your tactics. You lose the case, so you assassinate the judge. Shame on you!! Rachmolo l’tzlan!

FINAL SOLUTION
Guest
FINAL SOLUTION

There’s only one option to return serenity and silence to the ch beis din issue is to close it down altogether. Regarding the rebbes will of ch having its own beis din was only in order to add honor to ch not disgrace embarasse ch and in all sincerity and non partisonship there will be NO END to the machlokes so close up shop and go to bp if you have an issue l’chiam

One Problem here
Guest
One Problem here

The one problem here is that the Vaad Hakahol does not have the money to pay the new Rov. How many people paid the Vaad Hakahol tax? Without a salary the Rov will look for other support and leave the Rabbonis

השם ירחם
Guest
השם ירחם

כל הפישריסטים יוצאים מחוריהם
כך היה בדיוק “בזמן הרבי” לפני ג תמוז מצאו 101 סיבות נגד השכל הישר
וכמובן שהתירוץ תמיד בא לאחר שמפסידים
לא אני לא משלה את עצמי אני מכיר הטענות כבר מתשמ”ה”שהסבירו לרבי “למה ההלכה היא לא הלכה” ומי ומי בראש
גם אם אשדבא ושאר ה4 יחתמו שהכל שריר וקיים לטובת ברויין הרי שהמפסידים יבכו וימשכו את כל הקהילה למחלוקת מיותרת כאילו ברויין אוכל שפנים הוא
אלו אותם אנשים אכולי אכזבה מתשמה
רק שהתירוצים לשנאה השתנו
יודעים שמם ושם אמם
רמז הם באו להצביע בבקר בבקר
השם ירחם

To #26-49
Guest
To #26-49

26 totally agree with u
49 if everybody would be like you this world would b a better place

THANK YOU RABBI BRAUN
Guest
THANK YOU RABBI BRAUN

THERE ARE MANY OF US WHO ARE ELATED BY THIS PSAK
THANK GD
BORUCH HASHEM
I AM SOOO HAPPY. NO WORDS!

Ditto to #88
Guest
Ditto to #88

There was a zabla and a psak was handed down. If you don’t like it find another religion.

#90
Guest
#90

It’s pretty clear that you did not read the Psak Din.

It clearly states that it validates Rabbi Tziner’s Semicha, so that it should be clear that Rabbi Braun had Semicha BEFORE the election. because of the whole purposely generated controversy (and pressure exerted on Rabbi Tziner Shlit”o) Rabbi Braun went ahead AFTER the elections and got another Semicha and Dayonus.

The Psak Din also talks about another semicha dated over a year prior to the elections.

i live in nmb
Guest
i live in nmb

long live rabbi marlow at least he has a smicha
thats one thing more than can be said for rabbi braun

Re: Concern #91
Guest
Re: Concern #91

In case you didnt know, Rabbi Broun ran a Semicha Program in Sydney, and he brought Rabbi Tziner to give Semicha to the bochrim. Its abundantly clear that Rabbi Tziner know Rabbi Braun very well and had lengthily Halachic discussions with him. Do you believe that all that is written in the letter signed by Rabbi Tziner is untrue? are you saying that Rabbi Tzinner just signs anything that comes his way? If this is your opinion of his judgment, would you respect a man that acts this way? Rabbi Tziner does not claim that even one word is untrue.… Read more »

psak din
Guest
psak din

We need to be mature adults. I voted Rabbi M. Bogomilsky. Rabbi Braun won. Lets move on and except it. why are there some that will never concede defeat (can it even be called defeat?)? We need to move on in life and let the community begin to heal its wounds. we cannot continue bickering forever? are we frum Jews? frum yiden folow halacha. when there is a dispute (even between the greatest men!) it must be settled in a bais din. once a bais din rules – we MUST accept the psak – whether we like it or not.… Read more »

The Smicha
Guest
The Smicha

One point Rabbi tzinner made thats being overlooked is that Rabbi Broun was one of the Masmichim on the buchrim’s smicha in the Sidny smicha program.

This forces two obvius conclusions Rabbi braun giving smicha to others when he himself did not have smicha is extremely odd behavior.

Rabbi Tziner certainly thought that Rabbi Braun had smicha

can we accept?
Guest
can we accept?

I love Rabbi Osdobo and Rabbi Bogomilsky!

Torah mandates that we follow the ruling of a Din Torah and certainly not wage war against it.

Politics Wins!
Guest
Politics Wins!

Crown Heights is now the laughing stock of the entire Jewish world. A community that values politics more than Torah knowledge!

So when Mr Braun comes to Crown Heights he can get his smicha in 770 and have on the job training for his shimush.

Mazel Tov! MAzel Tov! and Hatzlocho Rabo!
Guest
Mazel Tov! MAzel Tov! and Hatzlocho Rabo!
Will we ellect yet another Rav
Guest
Will we ellect yet another Rav

Wait one minute. It’s not over yet. According to Rabbi Rosenberg’s original Psak Dain (the First one he wrote before the elections) he writes that after the current elections all 3 Rabbonim will need to sit together, deliberate together and sign together. Rabbi Rosenberg, in his original Psak Din, put TEETH in to his Psak where he says the “OR ELSE”. He writes in his Original Psak Din that if one of the 3 will refuse to accept his Psak Din and to sit together as a united Beis Din of 3, then THAT RAV WILL BE OUT (and will… Read more »

#89, no, the psak is not a psak
Guest
#89, no, the psak is not a psak

None of us are parties to this zablo, and none of us are bound to respect its decisions. Given the massive fraud involved, I don’t believe even the parties who signed the shtar borerus are bound by it; but even if they are that has nothing to do with the rest of us. I never signed anything, and you never signed anything, and nobody else in the community signed anything, so why should we accept this arrogant authority to impose a rov on us?

Wow! minority thinks they are majority :)
Guest
Wow! minority thinks they are majority :)

Note the definition of a sore loser
google it:
A sore loser is someone who loses in a fair competition but whines about it on a constant basis, blaming everyone around them for their loss except themselves.

So all those people who are complaining about the fair election results…. More than half of CH voted for him – but he’s not your guy. That’s elections.

new beginnings,perhaps?
Guest
new beginnings,perhaps?

OK now can the people of CH please find it in their hearts to move forward in a positive manner and stop the terrible machloikes that seems never ending.Even now some of the above negative comments makes it feel that a peace and unity is a million miles away.People think whats good for the community not whether someone matches up to your specific personal standards.

Inda Know
Guest
Inda Know

Mazel Tov Rabbi Braun. Just one comment to those who say “He is now our Rov and we will have to listen to him.” Years ago, the Crown Heights community decided to elect 3 Rabbonim to sit on a Beis Din to make halachik decisions for the community. No one Rov alone has any power to issue a binding decision on the community. Rabbi Braun, Shlit”a, is (or will soon be) one of the members of the Beis Din, and when THEY issue an opinion, by majority, we must listen. Anyone can ask Rabbi Braun, or any other Rov, a… Read more »

Rosenberg has cemented Lubavitch out of normative judaism
Guest
Rosenberg has cemented Lubavitch out of normative judaism

So that everyone can say, the Lubavitch Rov has no Smicha!

(But he says Yechi and uses a Blackberry, so we’re cool:)

ONE WAY TO RESOLVE THIS
Guest
ONE WAY TO RESOLVE THIS

Let the other Rabboim who are part of this Zabla also sign with R. Rosenberg. If they do, then the detractors can take a running jump as they will have no legs to stand on. If they do not – then something isn’t right with this end result ruling.

Rabbonim have spoken!
Guest
Rabbonim have spoken!

B”H now that the Rabbonim have spoken. Anyone who is a Chosid or Jew or has Yiras Shomaim knows, They have the LAST WORD. And no one DARE to open their mouth against a Psak Din. PERIOD

Yankle
Guest
Yankle

Below are comments from an intellectual, motivated (and modest) Oholi Torah graduate, who has over the years developed chutzpa, survival and social skills; upon Smicha completion, proceeded to university, and from there honed skills to form the honest, objective, critically-thinking opinion he has today. Obviously this is not a pleasant issue, and secrets should not be kept from those who need to be informed, but the embarrassment that such actively is brining to Rabbi Braun is inappropriate for any decent person, but especially for people who claim (and naturally don’t always act) to be religious. I am most certainly not… Read more »

You all deserve what you will get
Guest
You all deserve what you will get

Och un vey to our community.

The same type of justice and ruling was done here like in the Rubashkin case. People with an agenda pushing their case, and the nogeiah bedavar paskening on it!

There is no democracy here, just a bunch of fools being led and brainwashed by some clever troublemakers all in the name of halacha and Lubavitch.

Out of Towner
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Out of Towner

Could someone please explain to me what is going on b/c i live out of town and I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND.

Wrong title
Guest
Wrong title

It’s not Braun’s fate, it’s ours. G-d help us.

The Zablah has Spoken.
Guest
The Zablah has Spoken.

B”H now that the Rabbonim have spoken. Anyone who is a Chosid or Jew or has Yiras Shomaim knows, They have the LAST WORD. And no one DARE to open their mouth against a Psak Din. PERIOD

shliach  Boston
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shliach Boston

Boruch Hashem that there is a chanch to hope for an impartial bais din MAZAL TOV RAV BRAUN may HAKODESH BORCHU WATCH OVER YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GIVE YOU BROCHA VHATZLACHA AND MAY YOU BRING MUCH BROCHA AND KOVED TO OUR COMMUNITY AND TO THE REBBE!!!!!!!!

Mazel Tov Rabbi Braun
Guest
Mazel Tov Rabbi Braun

I am glad the psak finally came out and the will of the people will stand. Of course, there will be people who argue. Moshe had Korech and his people, so to here Rabbi Braun will have his Korachs. Just shows me how great Rabbi Braun is that the forces of klipa are very nervous that he will be coming the ch to make real change and raise the level of yiddishkeit for the many people who need and are looking for guidance in CH. I wish him many long and happy years as rov of CH. I am full… Read more »

Braun Withdraw Please
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Braun Withdraw Please

No rabbi worth his salt should pursue a position that inspires so much discord within a community. Rabbi Braun, if he indeed is a rabbi, should recognize that he fails to inspire unanimous respect and admiration, all the more for his desire to impose himself on a community where many do not want his leadership. Common sense and personal dignity would compel him to quietly withdraw his bid for leadership in Crown Heights. Crown Heights is not an easy community, and we are badly in need of leaders who inspire at least a modicum of reverence. Clearly Braun does not… Read more »

a rov...
Guest
a rov...

WITHOUT SMICHA??
is this a new brand of judaism rabbi rosenberg is pushing?
a psak din, signed by ONE member of the presiding beis din and no others?
A LITTLE COMMON SENSE PEOPLE, can you not smell a rotten fish???? something here is OFF
Take heed of all these red flashing lights!!

To #77
Guest
To #77

Let’s face it: he had the majority of votes.

MISLEADING, dishonest?
Guest
MISLEADING, dishonest?

When i first heard r braun was running for rov, i got a queasy feeling… i dont know him well, but definitely have crossed paths over many many years and this guy has a reputation (which i could understand easily) for being a bit sneaky and ‘something’ going on over there. But i kept my lips sealed, because perhaps i was being unfair in judging etc… I was a little more devestated when he actually won (couldnt believe ppl would actually vote this kind of guy in) but still kept my mouth shut Now, when all the ‘shady, blurry, dark’… Read more »

The sky's the limit!
Guest
The sky's the limit!

According to Rabbi Roseberg Mr Braun who has been making outrageous demands in terms of salary can make the sky the limit because the Vaad is required to settle with him no matter what. And the community is required to pay no matter what. If he is realy smart he’ll ask for a million dollars a year.After all, if he can out politic a community of politicians he deserves it.

You notice that no where does Rabbi Rosenber hold Mr Braun accountable for anything, since he’s a man without smicha, what do you expect

There was a psak and as Torah Yidden we have to accept
Guest
There was a psak and as Torah Yidden we have to accept

Hatzlocho Rabba Harav Broin

Laughing Stock? to #107
Guest
Laughing Stock? to #107

It is people like you who make us a laughing stock always putting down authority. If you would accept the Rov as the winner of the elections the world would gain our respect and let him prove himself. To the world he was the best choice from all Lubavitch. It is people like you are making us into a laughing stock when you cant even come close to his heels in learning.

ex chr
Guest
ex chr

What does “roui lismoich” mean?

What this means is that Rosenberg himself acknowledges that there is no semicha here which means that hes stretching things pretty thin at this point in an apparent attempt to cover himself……

Having said this, it’s probably best at this point to follow what seems to have the toikef of a din toireh and if Rosenberg messed up, that will be between him and his creator come judgment day.

For the sake of peace

money
Guest
money

money should be no problem here
the vaad hakohol should publisice the list of who paid

simple math if 1,000 people voted for rabbi braun and they all pay mas hakohol there should be enogh money to pay him

Rabbi Rosenberg writes that he had a Smicha signed a year begore.
Guest
Rabbi Rosenberg writes that he had a Smicha signed a year begore.

Also if you did learn Shmicha you would know that the person that runs the Smicha program knows his stuff. If rabbi braun was under the impression that he did not have smicha it would take him an hour to get one. (if he teaches it he knows it backwards).
What rabbi Rosenberg writes is that the terms Rabbi tzinner used would constitute a smicha, and if that is not what he meant he would have had to write it clearly as it could certainly pass as one.

Crunch
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Crunch

Did anyone think of asking to see Rabbi Resenberg’s smicha?

Join the movement!

An unbiased observer
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An unbiased observer

A Zabla is a Zabla!!!!! Chilul Hashem Gadol for all those which are besmirching the ruling of the Zabla Beis Din irrelevent of your personal opinion. Is this Lubavitch. Shame onto us. The fire of Machlokes is spreading wide and far. Black on white: If you can not accept the ruling of a Beis Din you have no Cheleik with our holy Rebbe, and are simply part of Korach Veeidaso. Woe on to us that the Rebbe has received such a mutated form of Chassidim who hav no Chassidus or Ahavas Yisrael and are rather a burning trend of their… Read more »

ad masai yehyeh zeh lanu lmokesh
Guest
ad masai yehyeh zeh lanu lmokesh

mdarf falgen rabanim.

to 109
Guest
to 109

I believe the Rebbe said that rabbi Osdoba was Rov “Ad Bias Goel Tzedek” Are you so anxious to refute his words?

To #26
Guest
To #26

#26 – I agree totally… all these pple are just looking for machlokes!! No matter what happens they will always find an excuse to disqualify R’ Broin.
If they were frum jews then they would accept the psak, as torah mandates… but apparently causing machlokes is more important to them than following Torah!!
WE NEED MOSHIACH NOW!

Toras Emes
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Toras Emes

As Frum Yidden, we are bound by the Torah! Halacha states clearly that we all MUST follow the Psak Din of a Kosher Beis Din!!!

Whether we like it or not. If we chose not to follow, and to attempt to sabotage and railroad the results – we have nothing to do with Torah/Halach or even the Rebbe!

The Rebbe stated countless times that Lubavitch follows Halacha 1000% and if you don’t – don’t call yourself Lubavitch (or at least claim to speak in the name of it)

To #14
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To #14

Who is the “we” that your talking about?

49 to 98
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49 to 98

Thank you.

I know that we are all Chassidei Chabad and we should all be holding by Tachlis Habittul(especially Yenem). I confess however that I have not yet reached Shleimus and when I came home from Shul this morning and one of my family members showed me your comment-it made my day.

I hope you live in Crown Heights!

to all of you
Guest
to all of you

why do you guys have to make such a big fight over a rav why does ch all ways have to argue with what ever any one said
im glad i dont live there

take a look at the letter from Rabbi Tzinner
Guest
take a look at the letter from Rabbi Tzinner

The letter from Rabbi Tzinner reads like and has all the wording of your average smicha certificate.

Who REALLY cares?!?!?!
Guest
Who REALLY cares?!?!?!

Crown Heights is a neighborhood. In it there are different groups of people with many different beliefs.
Pick your Rav and follow his advice. For those that want 3 opinions, they now have one. Everyone else, keep on enjoying life….

Good
Guest
Good

We must be strong in holding to truth and justice.

May everyone accept and respect all the Rabbonim of the Beis Din.

May it bring an era of peace and blessing to the community, and hasten the coming of the days of Moshiach very soon indeed!

Semichah
Guest
Semichah

I second #74.

I find it laughable to see Euro-pass holders boasting their accomplishments while in fact they probably read “Na”t bar Na”t” as 59 son of 59. Their ‘Michael’s’ custom-framed certificate is proudly hanging in the living room with a special light fixture shining on it.

Guys, Rabbi Braun is a world class Talmid Chochom who is Boki in your grandfather’s library. His Semicha doesn’t make him who he is. Unlike your Semicha, it is worth something.

Get over it; he’s CH’s new Rov! Give him the respect he deserves!

we need to notify the rebbe
Guest
we need to notify the rebbe

azkir al hatzion bkoroiv.

one BIG joke!
Guest
one BIG joke!

A nervous hospital patient was trembling as he awaited his surgery. The Doctor asked him what was the cause of his trembling. “This is my first surgery Dr.”, he replied. “Dont worry,” the Dr. assured him. “This is my 1st time giving a surgery too. And Im not worried!” The people saying that we should accept an inexperienced, young, and UNCERTIFIED Rov for our community, You people dont care for our community itself but for a silly side in a fight. What was the didan notzach in the 1st few comments? Who are you winning over? Do you want harmony… Read more »

If only I was 17 again
Guest
If only I was 17 again

To number 17: Your family and your kehilla can be proud.

To the rest of us: A shanda and a charpa that out of 110 comments, the most intelligent one comes from a 17 year old girl.

What has happened to us all? What has happened to our community?

We all need to just slink away and hang our heads in shame.

to 84
Guest
to 84

looks like you want a psak based on your understandings and emotions halacha does not work this way my friend.

Where is Rabbi Kantor?
Guest
Where is Rabbi Kantor?

I don’t see any comments from Rabbi Kantor, who was courageous enough to post his comments using his name, last time about this issue, Who, may I ask, has terrorized him into silence?

Grow Up. What's the value of your Smicha anyway?
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Grow Up. What's the value of your Smicha anyway?

Lets say that R. Braun did indeed have a Lubavitcher smicha before the election. That then certifies him? Isn’t it said that a Lubavitcher smicha is a certification of being an Am Ha’aretz?Why would R. Tzinners document be any worse??!!

Tut tut!
Guest
Tut tut!

People who make a mockery of the Psak Dinim and the Rabbonim should be admonished in strongest possible manner.

breiter plaitzas says
Guest
breiter plaitzas says

what a sorry state of affairs.

what crown heights now has here is a Lame Duck Dayan,no one will use him, no one will give the derech eretz the psak demands.

He has been effectively disenfranchised by those who themselves are disenfranchised.

its a poisoned chalice being any official capacity in crown heights.

Kinderlach learn to obay a psak din.
Guest
Kinderlach learn to obay a psak din.

Learn to be honest with yourselfs it is not the smicha that bothers you. Smicha was already verified by a psak din from Harav Rosenberg. Can we settle and calm ourselfs and give the honor befitting a Rav to Harav Broin. Remember the Rebbe fought so much for elections of Rabonim !!!

#29
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#29

I also got semicha in a year and a half and I DEFINITELY don’t qualify for CH Beis Din. Sorry but that’s a bit of a joke. Semicha takes years properly plus shimush vechulu. The piece of paper most of us has is just that – a piece of paper. I INCLUDE MYSELF

Insult to the Sicha
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Insult to the Sicha

Since when does smicha mean someone who is worthy of having smicha? It’s obvious to anyone reading the sicha that it means someone who HAS smicha. (Even to Rabbi Rosenberg this was obvious until he had to answer himself up.) Why are Hendel and his followers not protesting this insult to the words of the sicha?

Question?
Guest
Question?

Why as a Jew see the Bin Deth as suing and going after the person,i won 11 lawsuits in 10 years? What is there motive as to not sue on your own Accord? Look i Won,and thats the way it should be done. I won sueing my Family who stole copyrights music i inherited in 1984.And I WON,in 2006.

True Colors
Guest
True Colors

BS”D

We are unfortunately seeing true colors of some of R’ Braun’s opposition:

Disrespect for Rabonim and Piskei Din, disregard for the community as a whole and interest only in getting their way at any cost.

We must listen to the Psak Din which is Torah, and give respect to all the Rabonim that were elected to be on the Beis Din Al Pi Torah.

It will not be long before a time of justice and truth will be established… Which side of the fence do you want to be seen on?

R' Rosenberg on smicha
Guest
R' Rosenberg on smicha

R’ Rosenberg probably was shaking his head when he wrote this: “when i write about smichos, i refer to the smicha as excepted today, without comment on the actual worth of such a smicha” (footnote 9)

so much for the lubavitch smicha machine!

about #71
Guest
about #71

#71, a VERY intelligent and impressive comment. Makes alot of sense. You must have used your chochma, while many here were using…..something else…..maybe their yetzer……

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