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Sunday, 17 Kislev, 5780
  |  December 15, 2019

Rabbonim Must Work Together

From the COLlive inbox: Before choosing a 3rd Rov, former Vaad Hahokol chairman Michoel Chazan suggests to give the existing 2 Rabbonim an ultimatum. Full Story

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100% Agreed!
Guest
100% Agreed!

Electing a third Rov will just increase the fights if the two currant Rabbanim can’t even have a civil conversation.

too many topics broached its dizzying
Guest
too many topics broached its dizzying

just stick with the rabbiners annoying mess it is im under 30 and this nonsense is too much

and dayan rosenberg did the community a great service

RIGHT ON!
Guest
RIGHT ON!
how true are these words!!!
Guest
how true are these words!!!

Valid point. Azkir al hatzion.

almost 25years of VOTING
Guest
almost 25years of VOTING

And look what we havei i
s this Abir Shebeabirim
is this the face of a mature Chasideshe kehilah
is voting the way of Lubavitch
Is this the way its going to look for the next 25 years
as the ones who follow Voting know
“VOTING HAS CONSEQUENCES”
well we have the voting and the CONSEQUENCES”

chazan u lost
Guest
chazan u lost

why cant the former members stop with their negativity.u were not elected mr.chazan so please just bud out.they just cant leave .

Disagree
Guest
Disagree

Needlessly negative outlook. No practical advice.

By and large, we have opened our eyes to the sreyfa that destroyed the Rebbe’s schunah, and now everyone’s doing their part to rebuild.

Work together or move on!
Guest
Work together or move on!

This community is burning. We don’t have time for their petty fights about Money, Power, respect, ego, Nepotism and every other affliction that men have been fighting over for the past 5,000+ years.

You MUST find a way to work together or we MUST get three new Rabbanim.

Hmmm.....
Guest
Hmmm.....

The problem with this proposal is that the psak establishes rbbis Osdoba and Schwei as lifetime rabbonim. What I think is interesting is the idea that we might be able to place certain issues on a ballot for a referendum vote. For example, say there was a strong reason to impeach someone who was elected to community office. Is there a mechanism by which this can be accomplished? If there was, that might be a way to present this ultimatum. If not, we have no power to present this ultimatum and are stuck with these rabbonim until 120 years.

Avrohom Yakov
Guest
Avrohom Yakov

Well written and to the point. Enough of this waste of effort, time, money and emotions.

Shape up or shape out. Do this before it is too late and we lose the next generation.

Someone sounds bitter.
Guest
Someone sounds bitter.

“We need Rabbonim, who have Yirah Shamayim, charisma, that can motivate, educate and inspire” – that’s called a Mashpia, not a Rov.

Levi Garelik Shlit"A for third Rav!
Guest
Levi Garelik Shlit"A for third Rav!

B”H I have been asking people in the MIkva and CH Streets about Levi Garelik as the third Rav, and every single person I asked said “wow, that would be amazing…” R. Garelik is Talmid Chacham. I heard from a good friend of his that the night of Gimmel Tammuz, while some people were devastated and others were saying L’Chaim, R. Garelik stayed up all night pouring over the Rebbe’s Torah and looking to see – hayitachen? He is a type of person that in the face of challenges looks at the Torah – that’s what we want in a… Read more »

Get Real CH
Guest
Get Real CH

Enough with this Rechta Garbage….. “The people who tried to undermine the Rebbe, the Rabbonim and the community, and are now vindicated and koshered by our very own Rabbonim” Nobody other than Micheol Chazan and has Chevra have done more to undermine this community than he and his buddies… I am tired of listening to the silliness. Ifelections are so great than we have we just elected second tier vaad with third tier members of our communities…There are many great people in crown Heighst of all political leanings who most people would gladly support but because of the pain these… Read more »

RESIDENT
Guest
RESIDENT

the only fool is you!! yes the community has spoken and we elected 2 young people because we were tired of the older people who just want to fight and bring machlokos to this community. yes a 3rd rov will fix the problem. if its 2 againts 1 too bad on the one thats how it works in court and thats how it works at all din torahs thats why there is 3 and not 2 or 4!! enough with the macholokos, time to pick a 3rd rov and get things moving

 a mishmash of a Vaad Hakhol??
Guest
a mishmash of a Vaad Hakhol??

a mishmash of a Vaad Hakhol???? WHERE IS YOUR RESPECT FOR THE NEW PEOPLE. YOU DIDNT EVEN GIVE THEM A CHANCE AND THIS IS WHAT YOU SAY??? YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF

antimesira
Guest
antimesira

Yechi Hamachlokes!

Mr. Chazan, we did not vote for you for a reason. If the people thought maybe you had something for us, we would have voted for you, we did not.

Please step aside and let nature take its course.
Sadly your letter above is just promoting and setting the ground for more of the same old Machlokes.

Let Crown Heights move on, stop stealing our chance for peace.

Chutzpeh
Guest
Chutzpeh

This piece of trash is unmitigated chutzpeh written with no intention of solving or resolving anything. Its sole purpose is to evoke more Loshin Horeh and more responses inflaming an already sharply divided kehilah.

This writer had absolutely no positive intent with this article of his.

thank you
Guest
thank you

you put it down so nicely. thank you very much. if only something would come of this……..

100%
Guest
100%

Never a truer word spoken !! Everyone with a clear mind knows this to be the truth.

Rbbi Rosenberg gets my vote!
Guest
Rbbi Rosenberg gets my vote!

Elect Rabbi Rosenberg as the third Rov – he has everything our community needs.

Ben HaMitzorim
Guest
Ben HaMitzorim

bsd bh This article while well intended , speaks loshin hora in public. And the community in crown heights, is a miniature scale model of all the ills of jews in the total diaspora, we have forgotten that its the Torah’s guidelines that is the rule of law…Hashem yirachem ahl klal yisroel, when we all can fully utilize the Torah’s lessons , to cleave to them and live by them in honesty and devotion such letters will no longer be typed , and the pains of this deep dark galus will be healed. We can all pray and say Moshiach… Read more »

it was allready writen in the psak
Guest
it was allready writen in the psak

in the psak is said that if after the election of a third rov the old 2 wont get along then they will have no option other then throwing out one of them!

Whether we voted for him or not
Guest
Whether we voted for him or not

Whether he was an effective member of the Vaad or not….

HE IS RIGHT!

Their dislike of each other has destroyed this neighborhood. What is this, the Supreme Court? Let them ALSO run for election. We need Rabbonim who respect each other, even if they disagree. They aren’t worthy of the title Rav. I’m sick & tired of the hypocrisy. They tell US to have Achdus & these two Rabbis won’t even talk to each other! Enough already! Time to put your differences aside & work for the good of the community….or QUIT!

Chutzpa
Guest
Chutzpa

This letter is an attack on Rabbi Osdoba. In the cross fire Chazans Rabbi – that is Rabbi Shvei – gets hit as well as all Rabbonim. In this oped you compare Rabbonim to everyone else who: Fights like babies needs public ultimatums have no idea what they are doing Mr. Chazan what is a Rov? Someone who knows Halacha? And do we listen to their Psakim in Halacha? In this oped you further diminished respect for Rabbanim and you are basically saying that people should start challenging the Rabbanim. In other words the only thing you accomplished was to… Read more »

moshe der g
Guest
moshe der g

michoel in short SHUT UP you ran and you LOST because people dont want your negativity … lets face it your first statement “Let’s face it; most of the community just doesn’t get it. ” is an attack against the whole communty “WE DONT GET IT ” NO you dont take you and your former memebrs of the old vaad hakohol and crawl under a rug and hide in shame for attacking a whole kehila kedoisha. YES WE VOTED. and live with it you write we DONT NEED A THIRD ROV…….. read rabbi rosenbergs psak (together with 4 other rabonim)… Read more »

Didn't take long.....
Guest
Didn't take long.....

It didn’t take long for those who really lost the election – the extremist hendel supporting part of the community – to come out swinging.
BUT TO PUBLICLY ATTACK THE RABBONIM????

Yosef Katzman
Guest
Yosef Katzman

Michoel, just a bit of friendly advice, please ask Mechila from both Rabbonim publicly, before this gets out of hand.

I feel your pain.

do you need a beard?
Guest
do you need a beard?

do you need a beard to be a rov in crown heights?

CAN WE START THINKING AND SPEAKING ONLY POSITIVE??
Guest
CAN WE START THINKING AND SPEAKING ONLY POSITIVE??

it’s a bit scary that we have an environment where people speak with such lack of respect about Rabonim. Rabonim should be spoken about with respect and dignity, and the kind of talk presented in the above op-ed should not be tolerated by our G-d fearing wonderful community. It’s talk like this that brings strife – and we, as a community, should stop tolerating it.
Let’s start speaking only positive – it will bring out the wonderful qualities that we all have dormant. And, no, I’m not a dreamer – I am actually a realist!!
That’s my humble opinion.

Rabbi Garelik would be great.
Guest
Rabbi Garelik would be great.

but why would he want to be our Rov? We don’t deserve him.

agree with numbers 23, 24, 25 and 26
Guest
agree with numbers 23, 24, 25 and 26

I agree with comments 23, 24, 25 and 26.

once you vote a rov in....that is it
Guest
once you vote a rov in....that is it

a rov is a very respected member of the community.
there is no room for impeachment aside halacha

they have opposite personalities
it happened, ok, it is hard for them to see eye to eye,
it happens!

go with the situation
it is not for us to tell rabbonim what to do, think or feel, period.

this community needs more y.shomayim
that is the beginning and end of it.

daven to Hashem for a Mashpia
daven to Hashem for the right teacher,

enough.

I am utterly shocked and saddened
Guest
I am utterly shocked and saddened

Rabbi Chazan. I know you mean well. but this article is completely and totally out of place. the ch wound has finally began to heal and you are pouring salt on an open wound. If people can reject an election outcome which is not to their approval, then go back to communist russia and do away with elections. It is an insult to the community to suggest that they are not worthy of choosing their leaders. It is like you are saying to a child you can make a choice what you should do but I will ultimately veto your… Read more »

oy reb michoel.
Guest
oy reb michoel.

The next time I will be at the tzion, I will pray for the benefit of our comunitty!!! I will also bli neder arrive at the gravesite of rav marlow a”h and ask him to daven for all of us, asap.
I agree. If the rabonim shlit”a can’t serve the comunitty because of their fighting etc, they should bring a car service with a suit case and begin packing all their stuff (seforim, pencils, notebooks), and take them back home.

Third Rov
Guest
Third Rov

I think Rabbi Shea Hecht still has a chance. He should run for third Rabbi. Besides comming from a Rabbonishe mishpocho he has experience. He was many years a Rabbi in Canarsie. He was also a Rabbi in Manhattan and recently in theShalom Center shabbos minyan.

You LOST
Guest
You LOST

Hey Michoel, WE the people did NOT vote for you! And for good reason! Stay out!

SHOCKED !!!!
Guest
SHOCKED !!!!

MICHOEL,
I AM SHOCKED, MY FRIEND, THAT YOU WOULD ADVOCATE TAKING PUNITIVE MEASURES AGAINST RAV OSDOBA AND RAV SCHWEI, PERIOD.

I DON’T CARE IF YOU HAVE POINT OR NOT. THE END DOES NOT ALWAYS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

INSTEAD OF DENYING THE SALARIES OF OUR UNDERPAID RABBONIM, HOW ABOUT ADVOCATING SOMETHING USEFUL. FOR EXAMPLE, THAT ALL BUSYBODIES IMMEDIATELY CEASE AND DESIST IN THEIR PROPAGANDA COMPAIGNS AGAINST THIS OR THAT RAV.

THIS IS TRULY THE WAY TO BRING OUR TWO RABBONIM TOGETHER.

DR. LEVI A. REITER

To Dr. Reiter
Guest
To Dr. Reiter

Thanks for your comment.
On your lines, perhaps we should increase the Rabbonim’s salary, and as Rashi writes in the beginning of Parshas Mikeitz, “This was a symbol of the days of plenty, when creatures appear handsome to one another, for no one envies his fellow.”

what do the rabbonim have to say
Guest
what do the rabbonim have to say

what do the rabbonim have to say about this idea?

the community?
Guest
the community?

Um excuse me, what’s this narishkeit about the community has spoken and now we have to live with our choices? That is so not true, only a certain segment(men) have spoken, not women, so how can you say the community has spoken? Bottom line is that those that have spoken, spoke for themselves. There are the rest of us who had no say. The rest of us who don’t care about politics, egoes, etc.. Who want only that those who need help in the community get the help they need to send kids to camp, to pay tuitions, to manage… Read more »

meyer clapman
Guest
meyer clapman

the rabbonim are not the issue..there is a group of people that surrounded them selfs around the rabonnim and are creating the fighting. we as a community “”””””””most””””””” put an end to individuals who were not elected to be involved with representing the rabonnim. rabi gorner in Australia ran one of the largest Jewish community’s with out one bully around him..why should CH be different.

CLARITY ! LISTEN CAREFULLY !
Guest
CLARITY ! LISTEN CAREFULLY !

THE outcome of the elections is “HASHGOCHA PROTIS” & is theREBBES work, AS well as the din tora &the psak ,IY”H things will better .TRUE we of course need A big amount of fixing in our comunity BUT remember “MIAT OHR DOCHE HARBE CHOSHECH ” SO SHED AS MUCH LIGHT AS POSSIBLE !!!

we have the best rabonim
Guest
we have the best rabonim

I think our comunity is blessed with exeptionaly good and knolageble and iras Shamaim rabonim. Articles like this are against Torah. Rav is the reprsentative of H”. period. Good Shabos.

The rebbe said
Guest
The rebbe said

That there should be elections in CH for rabbonim, so that when a time comes (the rebbe foresaw this article) and there is a mandate to remove the rabbonim, the community should know that these are the rabbonim that we elected and these are the rabbonim we have to deal with. Period. How can you even think of such a chutpah’diker action as not pay the salary of the Rabbonim. Maybe if you make a mistake in your job, they should fine your salary?

I guess it is easier to punish a Rav.

Michol Chazan how dare you
Guest
Michol Chazan how dare you

Michol Chazan. I know you are hurt that you lost the elections but this article is completely out of place. After the Rosenberg Psak and the elections, we just startec to heal, so you have nothing better to do, but to write an article full of dirt and insults on the entire community including the Rabbonim ??? Mr. former Chairman your’e a professional to criticize others, would you please tell me…WHAT DID YOU ACCOMPLISHED IN 3 YEARS AS A CHAIRMAN ??? To suggest that the community is not worthy of choosing their leaders just because you –and your group-lost, is… Read more »

Beards
Guest
Beards

To the person who asks if you need a beard: you can buy a paste on beard at a costume store.

yosef ben ezra
Guest
yosef ben ezra

I would just like to point out a few things.
1. what does Rabbi Chazan’s losing the election have anything to do with this article. He at least had the guts to put his name on this article. Most people that write op-ed’s do not have the guts to put there name. If he would have just written this article anonymous what would you say then.
2. He is 100% right!!!

salaries
Guest
salaries

I don’t know what are the Rabbonim’s salaries, but they should be around 200K.
I thnik that this should be the topc, to give to the Rabbonim proper salaries and not to knock them out,cv

Women's Votes
Guest
Women's Votes

To all the women who are complaining about not being able to vote… My understanding is that these rules were checked over by the Rebbe. In all the years of our history in Golus, all aspects of “Klal” work were decided and done by men. That said, it should be noted that one of the rules is that to vote you have to be married. I would take that to mean that when a guy goes and votes, he is representing himself and his wife. Hopefully in the correct setting, the husband and wife have discussed their priorities and analyzed… Read more »

rant
Guest
rant

the best line of this letter is “I am not here to rant and rave…”

uh-huh…

check out what the rebbe says about writing letters like these
Guest
check out what the rebbe says about writing letters like these

Igros Chelek chof 7’515 – last paragraph

Coming from a woman
Guest
Coming from a woman

I agree with 49. i am a woman. Each household is given one vote. Discuss it with your husband and your voice will be heard. Every system has to have a set of rules, and no rule is going to be liked by everyone. Same goes for those who complain the timing of the election was bad. There was no perfect solution, in which case you follow the Rov and Hashem decides in the end.

A voice from afar
Guest
A voice from afar

Why assume that the new Vaad will not be effective? I wish them only hatzlocho and almost feel I am missing out on a new era in CH since I have moved away.

Modernity is the problem
Guest
Modernity is the problem

One of the main problem of CH is that Lubavitch is becoming more and more modern. The Tznius and Chinuch iues are no surprises. If someone dare saying something, he is labeled “old-fashioned”. Thoe stuff were relevant 1 century ago but not now according to them, because Lubs are “modern”.

Hatzlocho to the new Vaad
Guest
Hatzlocho to the new Vaad

The recent unanimous elections is a tremendous mile-stone for the Crown Heights Community, and (whether or not it seems an unlikely group) we wish them the utmost Hatzlocho.

Let’s build on the positive direction and not Chas VeSholom try to choke it and discourage people!

sholom c.
Guest
sholom c.

way to go chazan. you tell it like it is. for all those bashing chazan almost all of you did not specify what your problem is. have a gut shabbos

100% true - every word is like gold
Guest
100% true - every word is like gold

Rabbi Chazan thank you so much for the TRUE words, I hope this will make people learn about what is going on here in CH.

In the name of the young generation – Thank you for steeping up and telling the truth.

Elki
Guest
Elki

I find it difficult to foresee hatzlachah for any rabbanim of the Vaad if they are spoken about in this tone — many commentors, too, not just the article. There are many crucial problems going on here, but a kehillah that can use such lashon about rabbonim will never have rabbonim, because you must first look up to a rav, not denigrate him.

#6
Guest
#6

how can you post such a stupid remark?
he wrote exactly what needs to be done!!

Yosef Avrohom
Guest
Yosef Avrohom

The fact that they are Rabbis does not take away from them bechira chofshis.. Unfortunately their action have caused this article. They have wasted valuable money on their private pet peeves when the community is starving for help How can they sit down and attempt to make peace between two people or husband and wife if they cannot along with each other? How can they tell a husband and wife to respect each other if they don’t respect each other?. Can we say that they have set an example of ahavas Yisroel and achdus?. Screaming chutzpa at Michoel Chazan does… Read more »

It sucks to lose
Guest
It sucks to lose

Mr. Chazan, I know you think that only you are the right man for the Va’ad HaKhol, but obviously the residents of Crown Heights think otherwise. You can attack them if you want, and that is your right, but why would anyone take you seriously? You are in the minority. You lost. The community had their say and please respect it.

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