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Sunday, 14 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 19, 2019

    Rabbi Groner: Rebbe Opposed Eruv

    Mazkir Rabbi Leibel Groner unequivocally states that the Rebbe opposed the idea of an Eruv in Crown Heights; The Badatz issues letter. Full Story

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    Leave the threats out
    Guest
    Leave the threats out

    With all due respect to R Groner, his point was well made without the threat to those who oppose his views.

    It’s precisely this attitude that turns people away from accepting anything he has to say and perhaps Judaism in general

    sorry
    Guest
    sorry

    everything has its time, with all due respect nobody knows what the rebbe would say today, its not againts halacha to have a eruv chabad have them all over the world years ago there was no reason to have one in CH today it may be different.

    Remember
    Guest
    Remember

    hundreds of local yidden are carrying on shabbos in CH all those that appose the Eruv have this on their shoulders

    Eruv Committee
    Guest
    Eruv Committee

    There will be a Eruv in CH, not for the chabad community but for the non chabad Jews living in and around CH.

    If you are a member of chabad do not use the Eruv !!

    Translate!
    Guest
    Translate!

    Please someone translate the rabbonim’s letter?
    maybe collive reach out to them for translation? I believe the crowd your dealing with needs english!

    How much clearer does it have to be?
    Guest
    How much clearer does it have to be?

    How much more clearer does it need to be? rabbi Groner Berel lLevin are not enough? An Eiruv is not halachaically permissible in Crown Heights period there is no if ands or buts! The people who contributed should be ashamed & are helping furthermore Machloikes when is enough enough?

    thank you!
    Guest
    thank you!

    thanks you for clarifying this!
    On another note, i dont think col should be posting any articles from shwartz..

    Different opinions
    Guest
    Different opinions

    There are other Mazkirim as well as other Rabbonim.
    They disagreed amongst themselves on many other issues.
    Perhaps the Eiruv is another,

    Confused
    Guest
    Confused

    This news item contradicts itself:

    It firstly states that Rabbi Groner recalls the Rebbe categorically opposing an Eruv ibn Crown Heights.

    It then has A letter from the Rabbonim of Crown Heights decrying that any eruv erected without their consent or involvement is invalid.

    It seems that the Rabbonim are open to discussing the possibility of an Eruv and that the Rebbes stance on the issue was that it is up to the Rabbonim of the community to decide whether or not it is feasible.

    Precision is everything
    Guest
    Precision is everything

    “The Rebbe . . . reiterated on several occasions that no one has PERMISSION to make an eiruv here.”

    Is this a precise quote or a careful rewording for dramatic effect?

    Did the Rebbe really reiterate this wording on several occasions?

    It sounds extremely suspicious.

    Standing up
    Guest
    Standing up

    Kol hakuvoid Finally R choshever rabbonim R standing up 4 what is right !

    Again
    Guest
    Again

    The community is still questioning (not the opinion of Rabbonim but rather) the opinion of the REBBE!

    When, in the world, did he ever say or write that in Crown Heights one cannot make an Eruv?!

    One can scream and carry-on and warn etc.(in the name of the Rebbe), but without a source or proof – it’s worthless.

    As long as no one produces a clear directive from the Rebbe on this matter, what people say or thing is meaningless.

    in the Rebbe's own words:
    Guest
    in the Rebbe's own words:

    the Grace of G-d Chol Hamoed Pesach, 5724 Brooklyn, N.Y. Rabbi New York, N.Y. As you will surely recall, the matter was raised a few years ago, when I expressed my position, which has not changed. However, since I do not know if you are fully informed of it, I will reiterate the main points of my viewpoint relative to this matter. Firstly, as a matter of principle, my opinion is that where according the din an eiruv can be instituted, it should be instituted. This is based on the opinion of many poskim, including that of Admor HaZaken in… Read more »

    Pro Eruv
    Guest
    Pro Eruv

    in every letter the rebb wrote about an eruv, he left it open that if one is going to be built it should be done quietly.
    R. Groner was approached a few years ago and was not able to show a source of where the rebbe wrote against a eruv in CH. this is why he typed this one up. The rebbe wrote in many letters that the rabbi’s of each community are to decide as the rebbe didn’t make any psak dinim.

    Rbbi groner
    Guest
    Rbbi groner

    why is the caption of this article about rabbi groner no mention about the badatz

    An Eruv will very soon be completed here in CH
    Guest
    An Eruv will very soon be completed here in CH

    Please don’t spew hate here on Collive.com now during Sefira. The negativity only further delays the coming of Moshiach. I’m an honest G-d fearing Jew who lives here in CH and conducts my life according to Shulchan Aruch. The Eruv will be according to Shulchan Aruch and I intend on using it in extreme circumstances where not being able to carry would cause a lot of tzar and agmas nefesh on Shabbos. e.g. going to my in-laws a few blocks away with my child so that me and my wife can enjoy shabbos and have a happy marriage. I grew… Read more »

    ch resident
    Guest
    ch resident

    let him produce the letter of the rebbe

    Citizen Berel
    Guest
    Citizen Berel

    Very good.

    Kisvu lochem al keren hashor.

    The translation is too soft.

    The original text says he needs to take into account the consequences that “he will cause chas vesholom to himself and to his household.” There’s no passive or may in the original.

    Playing with fire.

    simple. no eiruv.
    Guest
    simple. no eiruv.

    Thank you R Groner and the 2 Rabbanim of CH for standing up & coming out with a clear answer on the construction of an eiruv and the Rebbes stance on it! The fact is as can be seen that No Rabannim aprove of it & the Rebbe was clearly against the idea so I don’t understand how its even a discussion now. Anyone who supports it should not call themselves chabad if they have no shame going against the Rebbes wishes. To all those claiming we dont know what the rebbe would have said now, is such a baseless… Read more »

    Excuse Me
    Guest
    Excuse Me

    “Rabbis Schwei and Braun concluded that if an Eruv is built without their involvement it would be halachically considered “invalid” and still “certainly forbidden to carry in the streets of the neighborhood on Shabbos.”

    Well excuse me Rabbi’s these is no such halachah. No one owns the neighborhood. No rav can declare that if they are not involved then an eruv is invalid.

    rubbish
    Guest
    rubbish

    Very suspicious of this altogether. The Rebbe would have looked at this all very differently today in these times without a doubt – I know that for a fact – it today is vastly different then it was by Gimmel Taamuz or prior – no comparison. Droves are moving in – many many are Yiddin, many will be mekarev to some extent – an Eiruv is the LEAST of your problems and should be a given. And this is BESIDES our sechuna. Some of you need to wake up. It is OUR generation that is staying and moving on. I… Read more »

    Eruv
    Guest
    Eruv

    It is long known that the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZTL and the Satmar Rebbe ZTL and Reb Moshe Feinstien ZTL were adamantly against an Eruv anyware in NYC They knew all the conviences and they were all Chacomim who were Roieh Es Hanoled and they still were against it What can we do that unfortunately todays youh thiks they are smarter than them and uses Kiruv as an answer to allow it

    The Rebbe
    Guest
    The Rebbe

    I beg all of you all to ask Rabbi Groner for written proof that the Rebbe was opposed to an eruv in CH. The Rebbe never shied away from writing his opinion. As a matter of fact he wrote his opinion regarding eruvin in other areas — so why not regarding CH. I know their argument will be that the Rebbe did not need to write his opinion in his own neighborhood. However, according to Rabbi Groner it would seem that there was talk about establishing an eruv in CH. Hence, it would have been judicious for the Rebbe to… Read more »

    #2 !
    Guest
    #2 !

    I live in Florida now and a guy told me with all sincerity that if cars were around a few thousand years ago we would be allowed to drive them —after all times have changed. now we can get a feel exactly how from totally FRUM we have million non observing jews

    Not surprised at all
    Guest
    Not surprised at all

    With the situation in ch with the lack of tznius, trimmed beards etc I’m not surprised that their considering a eoruv6

    Correction in your article
    Guest
    Correction in your article

    In the article COL writes:

    “Rabbis Schwei and Braun concluded that if an Eruv is built without their involvement it would be halachically considered “invalid” and still “certainly forbidden to carry in the streets of the neighborhood on Shabbos.”

    However, this is misleading. These Rabbonim are unequivocally against any eiruv, i.e. they would not agree to give any hechsher on an eiruv.
    There point was, they do not want to enter into a pilpul on the topic. The mere fact alone of making an eiruv without going to the local elected Rabbonim is treif.

    Rabbi Levin
    Guest
    Rabbi Levin

    Lets start to debate Rabbi Levin’s theses, one issue at a time: Rabbi Levin argues that the Alter Rebbe understands that there are four classifications of a reshus harabbim. However, Rabbi Levin realizes that this would be in opposition to the Brisa in meseches Shabbos that states that there is only three classifications to a reshus harabbim. Therefore, Rabbi Levin proposes novel readings to answer his own question. However, there is a simpler understanding of the Alter Rebbe. When the Shulchan Aruch mentions rechovos and sevakim, both are referring to platyas ( and there are Rishonim who refer to both… Read more »

    ONE SERIOUS QUESTION
    Guest
    ONE SERIOUS QUESTION

    is there still a cholent crisis or will there be cholent in 770 this Shabbos?

    #22
    Guest
    #22

    Both the Rabbe and the Satmar rebbe left no written objections to an eruv in their neighborhoods. Anything said in their name regarding eruvin is either hearsay or outright lies. Rav Mose Feinstein would not object to an eruv such as the one that is being proposed in CH. Which leads me to another argument with Rabbi Levin’s kuntres. Rabbi Levin claims that as opposed to Boro Park CH would not be included in the Brooklyn mechitzos. That is factual incorrect. Besides for which, the eruv can be erected making use of mechitzos habattim, the mechitzos encompassing Brooklyn would also… Read more »

    #25
    Guest
    #25

    Would you please listen to yourself!!! You are arguing that a takanos Chazal, such as eruvin, is like the issue of tznius. You see all these arguments were already said in BP and Willy and it all turned out to be a lie. An eruv does not lower the standard of Yidiskeit.

    Pnei Hador k'Pnei Kelev
    Guest
    Pnei Hador k'Pnei Kelev

    I remember when we got our answers from the Rebbe via Rabbi Groner. He’d tell you what the Rebbe said (or how the Rebbe nodded or shook his head) and hang up the phone. That was it. But now these prikei ol are accusing Rabbi Groner of lying about an eruv because “there is no explicit, written proof that the Rebbe was against an eruv in 2016.” As if all of the Rebbe’s letters and comments on the issue are still not conclusive, and as if the Rabbonim’s psak means absolutely nothing, these people now have the temerity to question… Read more »

    Live and let Live
    Guest
    Live and let Live

    If you dont want to use the Eruv… just don’t!

    Food for thought…

    To 4
    Guest
    To 4

    Well Said!

    I expect nothing less for the Rabonim to apposition and for majority of people not to use it. And I respect that.

    I also respect those that trying to quietly and peacefully build an Eiruv for the countless good reasons…

    I received all of my answers from the Rebbe from Rabbi Groner
    Guest
    I received all of my answers from the Rebbe from Rabbi Groner

    But he always showed me the KSAV YAD and let me make a copy. The Rebbe himself said many times and at the farbrengen not to say things in his name.

    "They made up their minds don't confuse them with the facts"
    Guest
    "They made up their minds don't confuse them with the facts"

    Some are determined to have an Eruv, and don’t want to be confused or bothered with the fact that the Rebbe did not want it.

    ATTENTION ERUV COMMITTEE
    Guest
    ATTENTION ERUV COMMITTEE

    When the Rebbe came out with the fact that we should not sell our homes to goyim and one person decided to do his own thing because the Rebbe (in his opinion) was not withit enough to realize what was happening to the neighborhood, and sold his house to a goy, he got his house sold and the money for it but did not live long enough to hold the money in his hand. The Rebbe does NOT change his stand with the style, and if anything would be even more adament about it today then ever before – seeing… Read more »

    EXPOSING TOP SECRET
    Guest
    EXPOSING TOP SECRET

    FOR PUBLICATION: this is not boro park, or williamsburg, or flatbush or the five towns or where have you, THIS IS THE REBBE’S SHCHUNA! it is not and never was our motto to “follow” other areas. on the contrary we were out to set a better example. so it makes zilch difference what other areas are doing. our Rebbe is AGAINST it, so the answer is NO ERUV. for get shulchan aruch etc. stop looking for excuses and heterim. If the Rebbe said NO THEN IT SHOULD REMAIN NO! and those that don’t follow the Rebbe feel free to move… Read more »

    rebbe's instruction opposing eirev in ch
    Guest
    rebbe's instruction opposing eirev in ch

    I would not respond to all the comments,however, the Rebbe told me: when you are aware of people who are doing things contrary to my instructions you as mazkir must do everything in your power to stop them. In this case all I can do is to repeat again the words of the rebbe: Ich vel nit derlozin machin an eirov in unser chechuna (I will not allow to have and eirov made in our shechuna). Regarding some comment, produce this in writing, How many hundreds of answers from the Rebbe were transmitted from mouth to mouth and were accepted.… Read more »

    Ostrich Chassid
    Guest
    Ostrich Chassid

    The Ostrich is said to bury his head in the sand. Number 23 is exemplifying that with a “Show me where, it is not written, etc. If the Rebbe didn’t put it in writing that means he was not that opposed.” It is clear that for those who already decided to do so, no amount of proof will suffice. But it’s not totally shocking. There were times when the Rebbe spoke openly and publicly about matters, and there were STILL those “Chassidim” who said that ‘The Rebbe means something other than he said.’ But I’ll address my words to the… Read more »

    #31
    Guest
    #31

    Bravo!! So well said. Thank you!!!!

    Nishtanu ha'itim
    Guest
    Nishtanu ha'itim

    At what point do we stop and say, the Rebbe would change his mind about something?
    Is the Shleimus Ha’aretz now a debatable issue?
    Is mihu yehudi?
    Is the Nevuas hageulah (r”l)?

    #31
    Guest
    #31

    Please produce “all of the Rebbe’s letters and comments on the issue.” The Rebbe never wrote a word regarding a CH eruv. Who gives anyone a right to infer from the Rebbe’s letters regarding eruvin in other neighborhoods to also included a CH eruv. Moreover, when people such as Rabbi Levin start arguing issues in the Rebbe’s name that has nothing to do with the Rebbe’s issues (such as reshus harabbim), these people are suspect. Which leads me to another issue that Rabbi Levin mentions in his kuntris. Why doesn’t Rabbi Levin admit that Rav Avraham Chaim Naeh states that… Read more »

    to comment number 1
    Guest
    to comment number 1

    I was only repeating the words of the Rebbe. Please learn again
    the Rashi of the beggining of our parsha Achrei about the
    difference of the two doctors.Rashi was also turning people
    away from yiddishkeit!!

    Looking for written proof?
    Guest
    Looking for written proof?

    The Rebbe clearly wrote in the Manhattan letter that the Rabbonim of each area must be asked. The Rabbonim of CH just wrote clearly not to. That’s written proof.

    Melbourne
    Guest
    Melbourne

    But we have an eruv here in Melbourne that both the Gutnick and Groners do not oppose. (?). This article mentions the initial position of the rebbe re our eruv, but not the resolution.

    Rabbi JI Shochet OBM
    Guest
    Rabbi JI Shochet OBM

    When arguing with a reform person about including women in a minyan, asked a קלאץ קושיא: If you don’t accept what the Rabanan say about not including women, why would you need 10 people to pray anyway? It’s the same Rabanan that say you need 10 for a minyan who say you need 10 men! The Rabanan who were misaken eruvin were also misaken that community matters (like an eruv) are to be decided by the morei d’asra. If you don’t like it, find a place where the Rabbonim will bend to your will, but don’t spit in the face… Read more »

    Sruly Clapman.
    Guest
    Sruly Clapman.

    The Rebbe spoke many times against profesional photography and flower arrangements at weddings. ( dozens of times ) it’s very comical how the “Balay Machlokes” that would love to stir up a good fight strart fighting people’s decisions using the Rebbe as a weapon. If and when a Eruv is built, it will stop much unnecessary Chillul Shabbos, those that don’t carry with Eruvin DON’T USE IT. All the surrounding neighborhoods that have a Eruv have tens of thousands of people that choose not to use it. End of story.

    Basically
    Guest
    Basically

    The Rebbe never said no erev
    If he did say it,he didn’t mean it.
    If he did mean it,he changed his mind.
    Bottom line,we want to carry on Shabbos.

    to comment number 1
    Guest
    to comment number 1

    I was only repeating the words of the Rebbe. Please study
    again the Rashi of the beginning of our Parsha Achrei,the
    difference of the two doctors. Is Rashi also alienate people
    from yiddishkeit!!

    To number 3
    Guest
    To number 3

    That people choose to carry on shabbos in CH is on their shoulders and only their shoulders.
    Someone who chooses to be mechalel shabbos is doing just that.
    Sorry, not on anyone else’s shoulders.

    Not saying anything about the Eruv...
    Guest
    Not saying anything about the Eruv...

    …but of course Rabbi Braun and Rabbi Schwei say that if you don’t listen to THEM it borderlines destroying the religion. Great way to control the masses.

    Free Translation of the Bdataz Letter
    Guest
    Free Translation of the Bdataz Letter

    In response to the popular question regarding the “Eruv Storm” in the shchunah, without going into the halachic matters and reasons and arguments regarding the establishment of urban eruvin in today’s large towns, and particularly b’asra d’rav, in the Rebbe’s shechunah: A) First and foremost, in the words of the Rebbe: “The rabbonim who know the local conditions – are to decide when it is crucial in a certain place – to make [an eruv] or not.” B) The thought and attempt to arrange an eruv without the consent of the local rabbis – border on destroying yiddishkeit, rachmana litzlan.… Read more »

    Did you READ it?
    Guest
    Did you READ it?

    Did you actually READ the tzetl to Melbourne? You still think the Rebbe would be OK with an Eiruv? (Please do not respond before reading the words of that tzetl!)

    Whats worse... An Eiruv or our school's Issues?
    Guest
    Whats worse... An Eiruv or our school's Issues?

    I have all the respect for the Rabonnim and Rabbi Groner.

    It just amuses me how there is a lack of effort to tackle the bigger issues in our community.

    must listen to the rebbe and his trust worthy secretary! !!!
    Guest
    must listen to the rebbe and his trust worthy secretary! !!!

    People!remember, when u looking for the easy way out and heterim..who knows what would be next Chas veshalom!Hashem yishmor!!!the rebbee said!!!!going against the rebbe?maybe this neighborhood isn’t for you
    .think about it..

    #37
    Guest
    #37

    Exposing what secret, can you please demonstrates where the Rebbe argued against an eruv, It seems from your argument that you know something that we don’t. You see, stop making claims in the Rebbe’s name, which he never said anything about. Oh, also please don’t make us laugh with your superiority complex. What “better example” are we setting by not establishing an eruv. You see most of those arguing on this board have no inkling about hilchos eruvin and what really was the Rebbe’s opinion about the matter.

    Living among chayas
    Guest
    Living among chayas

    We are living among disruptive people who are destroying properties. Wait until they get a hold on the Eirav, once Shabbos starts?

    cold winter
    Guest
    cold winter

    I will not be using the earuv but till I see a letter in writing mix the rebbe out of the machlokes be honest and say you don’t want a earuv let’s be honest you don’t give 2 hoots what the rebbe has to say

    #39
    Guest
    #39

    “Personally, I understand why people want an Eiruv. I understand there are those who Yiddishkeit is not as firm, etc, with Kabolas Ol, and can really use the convenience” This is apikorsis. Eruvin is not some kind of trick. It is a mitzvah established by Chazal. I think that it should be noted, that many of the issues stated here are kneged Chazal, and that is the reason that the Minchas Elazar maintained that one should carry in a kosher eruv, in order to distance himself from the eino modeh b’eruvin. For instance, how many times have we heard that… Read more »

    #46
    Guest
    #46

    Actually, just as it is the responsibility of each individual rav to insure that there be a kosher mikveh in his community, it is incumbent on each rav to erect an eruv as well (see Chasam Sofer, O.C. 99). Even more so, the Chemdas Shlomo (p. 203) states that members of the community should establish an eruv. The obligation is theirs as well as the rav’s.

    The rebbe was opossed to making an eirev in melbourne and other citk
    Guest
    The rebbe was opossed to making an eirev in melbourne and other citk

    Why did the rebbe not ask the rabonim to. make a eirev in ch

    To One and All
    Guest
    To One and All

    Don’t you all realize that the opposition to an eruv stems from one thing only. You see, what would be the big deal if an eruv is erected, and everyone would just follow his rav. The answer is, people are scared that if an eruv is established it would be very difficult to restrain oneself from not carrying. Please everyone be honest about this, it is not the eruv’s fault, it’s your problem.

    melbourne
    Guest
    melbourne

    I have in front of me the note that was sent to Rabbis Gutnic
    Groner at tht time,it reads as follows Literal translation:
    In response to your inquiry whether to support the idea of
    making an eirev in melbourne,the Rebbe responded: You
    should everything possible to prevent having an eirev in
    melbourne. Label Groner
    e

    BD letter
    Guest
    BD letter

    This is not a personal matter where you can say if you want you could do it and whoever doesn’t don’t use it. This is a halachic and communal issue that the BD of the schunoh has to decide if yes or no. No other Rov nor BD other the Badatz of CH have the right to approve the eruv. The halachic authority of CH is only the BD of CH.

    other sid e of the world
    Guest
    other sid e of the world

    number2 IF REBBE WAS AGENST ARUV THEN IS THE SAME NOW HE WOULD NOT HAVE CHANGED HIS MIND THATS WHAT WE MUST GO BY

    when
    Guest
    when

    rabbi groner states the rebba said in several ocassions that no eruv in crown heights.i agree no eruv should be made here as the rebba stated clear that a eruv should not be made anywhere. however my question is to rabbi groner please tell us when did the rebba say anything in regards to a eruv concerning crown heights. as you state several ocassions ?

    Didnt read all the comments..
    Guest
    Didnt read all the comments..

    …but if people don’t care about the Rebbe’s CLEAR opinion on not cutting the beard and on covering elbows, knees, hair, why on earth do you think they would care about the Rebbe’s opinion on this matter?

    Please support vital CH Eruv project
    Guest
    Please support vital CH Eruv project
    There are two crowds in CH
    Guest
    There are two crowds in CH

    The uber chasidishe who consider these rabonim as theirs and the not chasidushe who do not consider these Rabonim. They don’t come asking these Rabonim any questions at all. Tuma and Tahara, no Shabbos, no. So why would they care that they are against the Eruv. They have their own rovs. Wake up and smell the coffee.

    To # 67
    Guest
    To # 67

    Unfortunately, it seems like people don’t care about it. However, I think people do care, it’s just different because the Rebbe is not here with us physically. And I think people were much more Chassidish before, especially because the times have changed and the secular society is so much more “treif” now.

    Itch p
    Guest
    Itch p

    What is with the respect demanding self proclaimed rabomin? The sooner it’s understood that the position of a rabbi is to answer the question posed by people who are in need of a answer. The better off we will be as a community.

    Respect comes when you deserve it not when you demand it or feel like you should receive it

    jbs
    Guest
    jbs

    the consideration of an eiruv is defined by halacha, especially because of the complex halochos with regards to eiruv and can only be decided by rabbonim who have the knowledge of the issues involved. it is disturbing that lay people who are not equipped with the knwledge declare themselves to go against the clear indications of our beis din who were elected by the all the members of the crown heights community and are the only authority to decide not lay people

    #45 Rabbbi Groner did oppose the eruv
    Guest
    #45 Rabbbi Groner did oppose the eruv

    What are you talking about, when you claim that Rabbis Groner and Gutnick didn’t oppose the eruv? Rabbi Groner openly opposed it till his last day. The only difference between his attitude to Zaichik’s eruv and to the current one is that while he opposed the new eruv every bit as much as the old one, as a rov he had to admit that the new eruv is kosher, and one who uses it is not a mechalel shabbos. He was still openly against using it, but as a matter of policy, not halocho, whereas the old one was simply… Read more »

    Eruv
    Guest
    Eruv

    You can’t compare any othe city in the world to New York City and in the times o f the Alter Rebbe Zeicher Tzadik Vekodesh Levrocha where there was encouragement to make an as it was a small Shetetel as opposed to New York which is true Reshus Harabim Doureisa Mefulash to Manhattan

    #45 Rabbi Gutnick was also against it
    Guest
    #45 Rabbi Gutnick was also against it

    Both Rabbis Gutnick were against it, as a matter of policy. Rabbi Mottel Gutnick, like Rabbi Levin, was in a different position, because as a rabbi of Mizrachi it was his duty to support the eruv, despite being the Rebbe’s chossid. Rabbi Levin, who made the first kosher eruv after Zaichik left, was explicit about this: as a Lubavitcher he was against making an eruv, but he did not set the policy at Mizrachi, and since the kehilla was determined to have an eruv his role was to make sure it was kosher. He carried the first shabbos that it… Read more »

    Concerned resident
    Guest
    Concerned resident

    “They added that the thought and attempt to erect an Eruv without their consent borderlines destroying the religion, Heaven forbid.”

    Really? I see only religious benefits!

    Frum
    Guest
    Frum

    Not listening to a rav borderlines destroying a religion. Which part of that do people not understand? The rabbinic of this community said no eruv. They are the ones authorized by Halacha to determine if an eruv can be put up. They said it is not allowed. Which part of that is not understood?! Basics of yiddishkeit here: a rav says no so it’s no.

    Melbourne
    Guest
    Melbourne

    The same “Lubavitchers” who use the eruv in Melbourne, blatantly disregarding the Rebbes clear directives to Melbourne, will be the same kind of “Lubavitchers” who will use it in CH. They don’t really care if the Rebbe was against it or not. It’s a free world today, anyone can call himself Lubavitch if and when it suits him, and visit the ohel in a mini skirt.

    shtush mamesh
    Guest
    shtush mamesh

    I don’t know about rabonnim and you holier then thou’s but myself and my friends are staying put – we WILL have an eruv whether u like it or not, and frankly we can care less what the rabonnim want as they can’t agree on anything correctly let alone in a united way.

    BROOKLYN EIRUVIN
    Guest
    BROOKLYN EIRUVIN

    Since we are talking about an area of Brooklyn, we should use the other neighberhoods of Brooklyn that established Eiruvun as a means of comparison, and leave Manhattan out of the picture.The chumros of the Alter Rebbe are probably the most stringent of all the Poskim.The other areas of Brooklyn that have an Eiruv were established by respected Poskim, and even so most people do not use them, and the opposing Rabbonim that do not follow the Alter Rebbes stringencies still forbid it’s use. It is almost a novelty to see how many people in CH all of a sudden… Read more »

    I've heard this before
    Guest
    I've heard this before

    The arguments posted here pro eruv sound the same as the reform movement. Bend Halacha so people should like it and therefore stay Jewish?!?! Anybody home?!?! Look where their reasoning landed them. Drive a car to shul cuz it’s easier. Everyone sing together in shul to make it more pleasant for everyone. This is not coming from yiras shomayim so don’t give frum excuses when not listening to rabbonim!

    #74
    Guest
    #74

    Here we go again. Don’t you see that as soon as you start to bring into the fray halachic issues, you are not being honest. The fact is the Rebbe never had a problem with NYC being a reshus harabbim. Which leads me to the next issue with Rabbi Levin. Why didn’t Rabbi Levin mention that the Rebbe in one of his letters regarding the Manhattan eruv mentioned that they should look into the sefer Bais Av and will see that he cites many more Rishonim that uphold the criterion of shishim ribo. Clearly the Rebbe understood that there is… Read more »

    ???
    Guest
    ???

    You want to do what the rebbe says? Go count how many places the rebbe says to listen to the rabbonim of this community. Uch un vei that people don’t listen to rabbonim and twist around Halacha to satisfy their wants and needs.

    #80
    Guest
    #80

    Can you delineate the Alter Rebbes chumros in eruvin? Of course not. You are just bandying around the same canard. Listen, all the eruvin in NYC follow the so called stringincies of the Alter Rebbe. They are all Rambam eruvin, and rely on mechitzos that are omed merubeh al haparutz.

    Oh, by the way most people carry in BP so you are way off regarding your information.

    for your own sakes....
    Guest
    for your own sakes....

    ….and your families wellbeing….
    do not start up with those greater than you…
    its not worth it

    Rebbe and Rabbanim dont want this eiruv…dont let your own wants overpower whats really right….

    #81
    Guest
    #81

    “The arguments posted here pro eruv sound the same as the reform movement. Bend Halacha so people should like it and therefore stay Jewish?!?! Anybody home”
    As I mentioned previously it is a pity that when the machlokas is about eruvin people resort to writing divrei menus and apikarsus. Eruvin is not a trick, it is a takanus Chazal, and a mitzvah (Tur, and Shulchan Aruch, O.C. 366:13, 395:1; for proof that it’s a requirement for a city as well, see BeHag, Perek Hador and Chasam Sofer, O.C. 99).

    A himmel geshrei
    Guest
    A himmel geshrei

    Hello people. Do you hear yourself talking?! You don’t care what the rabbonim say and will do what you want anyway?! You might want to take the time to define for yourself what does it mean to be frum. What does it mean to be lubavitch. How will your children end up if you don’t care what das Torah says? Sooo sad. If you don’t care what the rabbonim say then how are you different than the conservatives and reform?

    #86
    Guest
    #86

    Take all your proofs and sources and go eat cholent. Ya think the rabbonim here don’t know what it says in the books? Seriously? Check out your sources better for how you are supposed to follow the psak of a Rov.

    #87
    Guest
    #87

    No rav owns the neighborhood. Even if one rav wants to make an eruv it is incumbent upon him to do so. It is also the right of askanim to push the rabbanim to erect an eruv. that has been the way it was in the heim as well (see Chemdas Shlomo, p. 203). A rav can’t just shoot from the hip. Eruvin are unfortunately reactionary, and the rabbanim should be required to have a solid reason not to allow one. Not allowing eruvin today is shfichas dmaim. An eruv helps to increase our oneg Shabbos, e.g., families with young… Read more »

    #79
    Guest
    #79

    Takeh a shtus to go against das Torah. By a sotah it says “nichnas bo ruach shtus”. Keeping Torah rules is a holy and good thing to do. Not keeping Halacha and saying “I will do what I want” is a shtus. You are going down a steep cliff- and there’s nothing to be proud of in that

    Dear Shechuna of Crown heights!
    Guest
    Dear Shechuna of Crown heights!

    An Eiruv was Supper Impulsed for People To Remember that there is a G-D And That There is a Shabboss And Observe Shabbos Properly With All The Rules And Regulations That G-D has Forwarded To os In he’s Shulchon Oruch, And Not to Forget That There is A G-D And A Shabbos And A Toiroh, And create A Free For All -. A Hefkeirus, And R”L To Do It in The Name Of Toiroh And R”L in the Rebbe’s Name!!! No One is Forcing Anyone To Be Religious – if You Don’t like judaism You Can Become Secular – But… Read more »

    #89
    Guest
    #89

    The rebbe has on many occasions used the term “sam sapujnik” – shoemaker -for people who try to mix in with halachik rulings. Would you buy tefillin made by a shoemaker? An eruv made without the rabbonim’s consent is the equivelant. No one owns you. No one can stop you from driving a car on shabbos or smoking. But you are a sam sapujnik when it comes to determining the eruv in crown heights. Like it or not- only the local rabbonim can decide that

    #89
    Guest
    #89

    Sure the rabbonim have reasons. And very good ones. How dare you say “they are shooting off the hip?!” Chutzpah beyond normal. But what will happen when they give people like you reasons? Will that help? Obviously not if you have no respect for Torah. They are busy helping people day and night who truly seek to follow Halacha. You want your lollipop by hook or by crook so all their reasons based on Halacha won’t help you out. Go make a mi shebeirach that you and your family should have a spiritual refuah shleima and develop a stronger connection… Read more »

    i'll say it
    Guest
    i'll say it

    1. there’s no agreement as to what constitutes “crown heights” with regards to its borders and where an eruv might be placed. 2. there’s not full agreement between rabbis about whether or not an eruv can be halachically sound in CH. 3. the rebbe is not here today to say his opinion 4. what the rebbe said or wrote decades ago may or may not be relevant today. (that’s right. circumstances change. that’s why one needs a live rabbi, mashpia, and rebbe. and that’s why the torah gave the power of decision over to live rabbis). so if you want… Read more »

    where are the pro-eruv rabbonim
    Guest
    where are the pro-eruv rabbonim

    How can anyone be in favor of putting up an eruv without approval of ANY rav? That to me is an even bigger problem…even if the eruv was theoretically OK, that doesn’t mean that anyone can just put up what they think is an eruv and call it kosher.

    cold winter
    Guest
    cold winter

    The eruv is a small problem we have bigger problems in crown heights like msira blatent disrespect to older people and lack of unity among our rabbys which led to having a eruv first Clean out your own back yard before you tell us no eruv I for one will not use this eruv but come on mix our rebbe out of our stomick aces oppose the eruv if you like but be honest with your self you give 2 hoots about the rebbe its about imposing your self on somebody else the eruv will make things easier for people… Read more »

    Oy Vey!
    Guest
    Oy Vey!

    What about the fact that Crown Heights can be considered a reshus harabim, therefore unexceptable for an eruv?

    @ 76
    Guest
    @ 76

    Nobody cares what you think, as you are arguing with a rav.

    2 rabbonim of Crown Heights????
    Guest
    2 rabbonim of Crown Heights????

    Why is there no mention of Rabbi osdeba??????

    To #59 and #86
    Guest
    To #59 and #86

    There is a vast difference between saying “no eruv is kosher” – which indeed would be apikorsus – and “an eruv in this area cannot be made in a kosher way,” which is correct. Small-scale eruvin, after all, are made in front yards and alleyways all over Crown Heights, to allow the residents to carry in those areas; no one has ever raised any objection to those. Similarly, eruvin exist in the various bungalow colonies, including all of the Lubavitcher ones, and again no one has objected, because there are clearly no 16-amah-wide thoroughfares there, let alone 600,000 people. But… Read more »

     Eiruv rav.  Not an Eiruv.
    Guest
    Eiruv rav. Not an Eiruv.

    How dare people try be spokesmen for the rebbe.
    The rebbe said it clear.
    If you don’t want to listen to the rebbe say so but don’t use the rebbe for your own selfish reasons.
    I guess the rebbe would also say that times have changed regarding tznius. Then you can also Change hilchos
    kashrus mikva etc.why stop at Eiruv.

    #93
    Guest
    #93

    Call it chutzpah call it what you want, but the rabbanim are not offering any good reasons. They are just saying that the Rebbe was against it. Sorry that is pure conjecture. In any case, there will be some rabbanim who will support the eruv wait and see.

    This "community" is unrecognizable
    Guest
    This "community" is unrecognizable

    State of Lubavitch today makes me wonder if it will even be around in the next couple generations. Theres No One to Blame. Time to face facts we are lost without the Rebbe No one respects rabbanim Rabannim have proven that they can’t often be trusted We’ve been dishonest and bent the rules, TVs, Music, tznius and I won’t even get into the rest… yet we still care that are kids marry gezhe?! Parents don’t respects schools, schools mistreat parents. Now to say the Rebbe would have wanted an eiruv, who are you kidding? Be honest, make the eiruv, do… Read more »

    selfish
    Guest
    selfish

    lack of disrespect modern ppl have…to themselves, and to the community….don’t care what anyone says…it’s all about me, what I want, and no one can tell me what to do, it’s my life…. Seriously, think of others, think of Torah, think of the Rebbe, think of what ur purpose here on earth is…is it really just all about you and what you want…. I hope as a community those wanting lower standards don’t impose that on the rest of that….an eruv here would b a shameful and brazen act even if many choose not to use it- clearly going against… Read more »

    #100
    Guest
    #100

    No you are missing the point. The arguments set forth on this board are pure apikorsis (besides for those who naively believe that the Rebbe opposed one). It is irrelevant if the people making these arguments are inconsistent and carry in some eruvin, but their arguments in opposition would in truth negate all eruvin. Moreover, today’s city eruvin are an outgrowth of the halachos of shtufei mavaos which is a separate mitzvah classified in the Shulchan Aruch (O.C. 395:1). Therefore, by negating all city eruvin, at the minimum they should be labeled as eino modeh bshtufei mavaos. You further statements… Read more »

    Bottom line
    Guest
    Bottom line

    BH

    The Rebbe wants the community to listen to the Rabonim. Period

    cold winter
    Guest
    cold winter

    Stop selling something true with untruth its time to admit that you use the the rebbe when its good for your party when it does not you could give 2 hoots

    Shabbos Spirit
    Guest
    Shabbos Spirit

    When will it stop? Having an eiruv would now allow kids to ride bikes and scooters around the blocks, basket games going on. Shabbos is about kedushah, hashem

    TO THE PRO CH  EIRUV COMMITTEE
    Guest
    TO THE PRO CH EIRUV COMMITTEE

    WHO IS YOUR Lubavitch rav backing the Ch Eiruv ????
    Why is he burying his head in the sand???!
    Or perhaps you have NO Lubavitch rav backing you ???
    You’re taking such matters in to your own hands ???
    Without PRESENTING A Lubavitcher Rav, the whole discussion the doesnt BEGIN .
    And dont tell me you have a Lubavitcher Rav hiding in your back pocket.

    unfortunately
    Guest
    unfortunately

    We may not have the Rebbe here with us physically, but seems that some people have forgotten that we still have a G-d, we still have the Torah and we still live our life according to every detail of the Shulchan Aruch. If these people don’t listen to the Rabbonim on this then they can’t come running with other shailos either (if they bother with that)

    To #100
    Guest
    To #100

    Very well, there are areas where eruvin can be validly made. However, the Rebbe states quite clearly in a letter (to, yblch”t, R. Gavriel Zinner) that it is up to the local rabbonim to decide whether an eruv in a certain area will have a positive effect or the opposite. Since every single one of the local rabbonim has said no, then there should be nothing more to talk about. If you want to go bring your sources to them and argue (respectfully) that they are misunderstanding the sources and should change their minds, that’s one thing; but there is… Read more »

    #108
    Guest
    #108

    “Shabbos Spirit: When will it stop? Having an eiruv would now allow kids to ride bikes and scooters around the blocks, basket games going on. Shabbos is about kedushah, hashem”

    #100 – This is what I am referring to. These arguments are pure apikorsis. We are not smarter then Chazal. The fact is, these claims would do away with all eruvin, large or small. That the people making these arguments don’t realize that their statements would do away with all eruvin is irrelevant. Their arguments stand on their own.

    #109
    Guest
    #109

    “You’re taking such matters in to your own hands ??? ”
    Wow, you’d think that an eruv is the biggest aveira there is!!!!

    to #106
    Guest
    to #106

    We actually don’t come to them with questions. They are out of touch with today’s young crowd. We go to Rabbis outside of CH since there’s no one to talk to here. It’s very sad, but true. CH needs a Rov who can relate to the younger crowd. Until there’s a change they will continue to shop somewhere else for answers. Dito on the Eruv.

    Rabbi Levin
    Guest
    Rabbi Levin

    I hope people reading this board realize that Rabbi Levin’s arguments, in his kuntris, is his personal opinion, and not the Rebbe’s.

    Just be honest
    Guest
    Just be honest

    Let’s tally the score. The Rebbe’s secretary has testified that Rebbe explicitly forbade the making for an eruv in CH “ich vel nit lozen…” The Rebbe secretary has testified that the Rebbe expressed this numerous times. There is no reason to suspect Rabbi Groner of malice or dishonesty, save for that what he says is not to your liking. Every Lubaviture Rov who has expressed a view on this, and more are coming, has weighed in unequivocally against it. There are letters and other circumstantial evidence pointing to that Rebbe did not want an eruv in CH. To the contrary,… Read more »

    Some things to consider
    Guest
    Some things to consider

    First I want to mention that I do not live in CH so I comment as an observer from a distance. I’ve read through all 105 comments to this point and was impressed that with just a few exceptions they were by and large written well and with respect which was nice to see given how polarizing the topic is. I wonder if any commentators that ask to see in writing what the Rebbe’s opinion is saw comment 13 in which a letter of the Rebbe is brought in English. It is stated there clearly black pixel on white. There… Read more »

    Non Chabad person here
    Guest
    Non Chabad person here

    Welcome to the new world of orthodoxy where Halacha is decided by Public Opinion and not by the shulchan orach

    DONT COMPARE TO OTHER COMMUNITIES
    Guest
    DONT COMPARE TO OTHER COMMUNITIES

    To all those claiming:”LOOK boro park etc has an Eiruv…” Know your facts first ,Boro park is not a Kehilla (i.e.community). each crowd (bobov,ger,satmar,litvaks etc) follow their rebbes or ravs opinion on the eiruv, Or if they dont belong to a certain group,than they follow the opinion of the majority. It was the Rabbonim who decided on the matter,of having an Eiruv. HOWEVER IT WASNT a GROUP OF ANYBODIES who PUT UP THE EIRUV..quoting from Shulchan Aruch. PLEASE GET THAT STRAIGHT, I once heard from 1 of my teachers,that he was once sitting in a shul learning & near him… Read more »

    To #  114
    Guest
    To # 114

    In regards to Ch issues,it has to be Rabbonim of Crown Heights.

    r' Sholom Ber Levin
    Guest
    r' Sholom Ber Levin

    Can anyone explain what he relied when he decided to publish his opinion?

    This is exactly what the Rebbe said (12 Tammuz 5718 -quoting photography letter above) that he should not post here.

    What is his explanation?

    to comment 114
    Guest
    to comment 114

    You can email any shaloh 24/6 to rabbibraun@gmail.com I always receive answers almost immediately he is young and in touch with the youth.

    #114
    Guest
    #114

    The reform also complained about “out of touch” rabbis. You are looking for a 1-800-DIAL A HETER Rabbi so you need to seek one from out of town. Sad. They said it’s not allowed so it’s not allowed.

    #118
    Guest
    #118

    “Welcome to the new world of orthodoxy where Halacha is decided by Public Opinion and not by the shulchan orach” So you mean that the rabbanim are saying that they oppose an eruv because of halacaha? I would love to see their opinions in writing (besides for Rabbi Levin). I think you got it wrong. The issue is the rabbanim believe that the Rebbe is opposed to an eruv. This, however, is hearsay. Moreover, when the issue is eruvin there is nothing wrong with daas balei batim. The Chemdas Shlomo stated that they should gather together an push for eruvin.… Read more »

    Kabolas Ol
    Guest
    Kabolas Ol

    The three Rabonim: Rabbi Osdoba, Rabbi Shvei and Rabbi Braun are saying the same thing. They say that it needs the psak of the Mora Dasra and without it you can’t take it anywhere.

    The Rebbe's Chossid
    Guest
    The Rebbe's Chossid

    How dare anyone question what our Rebbe zt”l expressed regarding having an eruv in Crown Heights? If you call yourself a Lubavitcher and a follower of our Rebbe zt”l then you follow his wishes with simcha and no complaints? You can’t enjoy Shabbos because there is no eruv in ch? Perhaps you need to learn a bit more, increase your faith in Hashem, and realize that there’s more elokus in keeping Shabbos without an eruv the way the Rebbe zt”l wanted, rather than complaining about how inconvienient it is. But then again, unfortunately Crown Heights has big percentage of “Lubavitchers”… Read more »

    Aseh lecha Rav
    Guest
    Aseh lecha Rav

    Yidishkeit and particularly the Rebbe’s guidance was not built on finding conviences. It would not surprise me that those who advocate an eruv are lax on cholov yisroel, tznius etc…..like many issues.. Its all about my comforts and not what Torah and hashem asks. Let each find his Rav to guide him as the Rebbe instructed.

    125 Rabonim in CH?
    Guest
    125 Rabonim in CH?

    CH has Rabonim as every community. It is their domain to rule on the matter. This is with no doubt the wishes of the Rebbe. Not in vain did the Rebbe say ” Aseh Lecha Rav”. In the phyiscak absence of the Rebbe.. The Rabonim in CH are the decisors in this matter as ruled unequivacally in Shulchan Aruch. And no Rav from outside has right to interfer in this however competenet he may be – bifrat Shchunas Hamelech of the Rebbe…..

    There is a reason there was no Eruv until now
    Guest
    There is a reason there was no Eruv until now

    If the Rebbe wanted a Eruv in CH there would have been one made a long time ago.

    To #129
    Guest
    To #129

    Exactly. That says it all – but as we all know, whether or not we agree with it, it will happen, because very few people care what the Rebbe says. We have officially become Chabad Lite. Congratulations, you fools have managed to succeed where the misnagdim failed: in destroying 7 generations of Chabad. Now live with the consequences.

    To the “old school” Chabad – get out now. Find a community that still follows the Rebbe.

    Dovber Schwartz
    Guest
    Dovber Schwartz

    I wrote my article to start a conversation. There’s been a lot written, most of it just opinions with no sourcing so let’s focus on what we actually know. After much ado, here is what we know (versus what you may think or feel). HALACHICALLY Rabbi Osdoba seems to hold that it is halachically possible to erect an eruv here in Crown Heights. The other two members of the communities beis din seem to hold that there are serious complications but that it is possible (unclear from their letter) yet nothing can be done without their involvement. We have a… Read more »

    If the rabbonim say no eruv, no eruv.
    Guest
    If the rabbonim say no eruv, no eruv.

    Rabbonim make decisions based on there knowledge wisdom and understanding of the shulchan Aruch and the nature of people. Who are we to question their authority? Like it or not they are our rabbonim, the rabbonim of crown heights whether or not you agree with them and like or dislike them. Its not our place to publicly disagree with them, especially online , considering more then anash have access to the world wide web. Its in our best interest, the best interest of our children, the community and chabad world wide to keep our mouths shut regarding this and etc.

    X