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Saturday, 16 Av, 5779
  |  August 17, 2019
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    Our Broken Yeshiva System…

    From the COLlive inbox: "My 19-year-old son was rejected from learning in Shiur Daled at Oholei Torah," writes a broken-hearted father. Full Story

    Gegent Eats: Visiting Basil NYC

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    Chovevei Torah
    Guest
    Chovevei Torah

    Speak to Rabbi Blau! Incredible hanhola that sincerely cares and puts themselves out for their bochurim! I’m a parent who has sent both my sons there with phenomenal results!!! Hatzlacha! Don’t forget Yagayti umetzasi!!!!

    A fellow bochur
    Guest
    A fellow bochur

    Well written and the point is quiet clear.
    However. in response to your analogy, if a patient has a contagious desease or needs a specialist they would be required to segregat him to a separate ward which specializes in his Field.
    That being said maybe your son needs to be in a different ward and go to another Dr. This is not to say he doesn’t belong in the yshiva system but possibly not in that particular yeshiva.

    Chanoch Lanaar Al Pi Darko
    Guest
    Chanoch Lanaar Al Pi Darko

    The one thing you didn’t say, is what your son actually wants… Is yeshiva actually the right place for him to be? Maybe the answer is to stop forcing everyone to fit into a box and spend the formative years of their life in what amounts to a prison for many bachurim…

    shiur bais bochur
    Guest
    shiur bais bochur

    I know the bochur. good guy all around. If he was rejected, I am doomed.

    True point but..
    Guest
    True point but..

    To add on to your mashal. Suppose you have heart issues and you show up to a podiatrist to service you, they would tell you to go to a DR that specializes in your area of need.
    Same with yeshiva – they cater to different types of bochurim.
    If your son needs a more relaxed, open minded chinuch then a rigid yeshiva would not be a good fit for either of you

    Oh boy
    Guest
    Oh boy

    Comment storm incoming.

    also seminarys.
    Guest
    also seminarys.

    The same thing applies to seminary with girls. Many girls dont get into seminary. Many girls end up going to not chabad seminaries because they treat the girls much better and actually care

    Leadership
    Guest
    Leadership

    Leadership, leadership
    Who has that responsibility?

    It will all work out for the best
    Guest
    It will all work out for the best

    My son and a friend’s son were the ONLY ones rejected for a certain Yeshiva. NO reason in particular but we knew that both boys had had a disagreement with the father of the Rosh Yeshiva. Both boys went elsewhere, both did brilliantly ( my own son told me how happy he was with his learning) both boys got excellent smicha and both boys married into lovely families. Everyone is where they are meant to be.
    Yes, at the time both families were angry but we both realise now how it was for the best.

    tomchei tmimmim of old
    Guest
    tomchei tmimmim of old

    when the institution of tomche tmimim was founded only the elite bochrim were accepted. if you didn’t know most of shas you wouldn’t be considered.
    if theres only room for the elite why would they accept your son?
    I hope he finds a place for yeshiva but I don’t think its a problem in the system

    Agreed
    Guest
    Agreed

    When did we become elite? Loosen up and do your job, educate the people who need it!!

    Hanholos please listen, parents don't despair...
    Guest
    Hanholos please listen, parents don't despair...

    We too as parents have been through a similar heart wrenching experience with our son but B”H he was able to find himself a job helping a Shliach and he is enjoying tremendous hatzlachah which has had a wonderful effect on his self-confidence. To all Yeshivah hanholos, please pay attention to the words of this article and perhaps some serious soul searching and training for your staff will prevent such stories from being repeated and all parents who are going through such challenges with your children, please don’t despair, as be”H they will find their way and come good!

    Aussie boy
    Guest
    Aussie boy

    You’re not entirely correct, they get a lot of applicants and they can accept the ones they feel they can help the most. Their job isn’t to save the world.

    seeking to understand
    Guest
    seeking to understand

    Exactly what point are you trying to make? On the one hand, it seems like you’re ripping into the hanhala of Morristown and Oholei Torah for not accepting your son, despite him not being a chassidishe bochur. However, you go on to state that they arent really at fault, operating as they are in a broken system…

    AGREE!!!
    Guest
    AGREE!!!

    Your strongest point is that he’s a kid that WANTS to be in the Yeshivah system and that’s a huge thing these days, that in itself shows a lot about him! Can’t agree more – the system needs to change, but will it? And how long will it take and how many will be lose till that happens- outrages!

    A Hotel for Chassidish bochurim
    Guest
    A Hotel for Chassidish bochurim

    When I was in yeshiva, a couple of my friends from the yeshiva in Postville, used to say that Yeshiva’s were essentially trying to be a a hotel for chassidish bochurim. I agree with you, that a good hanhola is one that is able to work with all bochurim and maybe we should re-evaluate who yeshivos hire-as they only hire the metzuyanim, maybe leading to this cycle?

    It's no better in elementary
    Guest
    It's no better in elementary

    These prehistoric, out-of-touch “educators” should have been put out to pasture decades ago. Our story is also one of rejection, but for different, even more insidious reasons. Oholei Torah rejected our son because ULY put pressure on them not to accept him – not because he was “no good” but because we had pulled him out of ULY due to the physical abuse his brother experienced. And they wanted him back! We found that out years later when the Principal of ULY apologized to my son. I will never forgive either principal for colluding to manipulate us at the expense… Read more »

    Reality Check
    Guest
    Reality Check

    As readers, we don’t know the full story and any genuine reasons that would make their decision fair, but your story is not unusual. Nowadays, it seems that everyone wants to have an “Elite Yeshiva” for “top bochurim”. So, where are the “average boys” supposed to go? We seem to get hung up on white shirts, top buttons, secular music, etc etc and forget that these are real kids with a fairly typical exposure to, and attitude towards, the wider world. If anything, these are the perfect students to accept. With patience and “TLC” (to use your words) these boys… Read more »

    Have to say...
    Guest
    Have to say...

    That’s all very nice, and true that sometimes yeshivos don’t do a proper research about a bochur and make mistakes but if you have a bochur that by “not being chassidish” will affect the atmosphere of the yeshiva and the other bochrim(which happens very often ) he has no right to be in the yeshiva..

    well
    Guest
    well

    respect for putting your name!

    Time to clear up the "Bochur Shlichus"  myth
    Guest
    Time to clear up the "Bochur Shlichus" myth

    There is no reason to be broken-hearted. There are many alternatives to Oholei Torah Shiur Daled which give a strong grounding for the future. The only reason bochurim feel they need OT, is because that is their path to “Shlichus” in yeshiva. In and of itself the Yeshiva does not offer anything earth-shattering that they will need later on in life. Just the one year of shluchus that follows Shiur daled. In truth, where you go on Shlichus as a bochur makes no difference in life – by the time a bochur will get married, it will not make a… Read more »

    To 1
    Guest
    To 1

    Rabbi blau is a very underestimated individual i would like to add rabbi sternberg rabbi tzukernick etc.
    To the father

    The yeshivas that dont eccept these buchrim that dont “fit” should know anc be aware of a few things

    A 19 year old bochur has other choices and Unfourtnatly some make not good choices
    As a result
    They are not happy they happen to be broken
    And then they lift there head and pray very hard
    And i am 100% sure that the אובערשטער answers there prayers

    Dear writer.
    Guest
    Dear writer.

    I’m a parent too, my son is actually going to shiur daled Ohlei Torah next year. I feel like you missed a very important point I your article, my son is bh a good bochur a bochur who worked hard in yeshiva, who learned, who davend, who farbrengen. And now he’s going to a totally different zal a totally different type of yeshiva one with lots of types of bochrim lots of different directions etc. I think THE LEAST the hanahla can do is reject the bochrim who they feel that will ruin my sons year, (obviously not only my… Read more »

    To number 21
    Guest
    To number 21

    I can see you didnt have a good year when you went on Shlichus. I personally had a great year on Shlichus that changed my life!!! I would never be on Shlichus now if not for that year.
    Unfortunately I can read that Shlichus values are not important to you and I’m sorry about that!

    To Rabbi Shochet
    Guest
    To Rabbi Shochet

    I’m not going to excuse the yeshivos for their elitist behavior, but Tomchei Temimim was originally established only for elite bochurim. That is the history of Tomchei Temimim.

    Broken system
    Guest
    Broken system

    I have been burnt by the system with my two teenage boys From my experience most of the Yeshivas have the same Honholo for many years and the are living iin a bubble with today’s challenging youth either they are clueless of the challenges or chose to remain oblivious so many of our children are going off the derech the insensitivity and the things that are said from honholo to bochrim are just mind boggling I unfortunately don’t have faith in our educational system may Hashem and the rebbe help us there is definitely blood on certains honholos hands due… Read more »

    Thank You
    Guest
    Thank You

    For speaking up

    Get into a cubical
    Guest
    Get into a cubical

    He should get a job

    Really
    Guest
    Really

    When my bank denied me for a loan I want another bank. After the 5th bank denied me I started fixing my problems.

    Agree.
    Guest
    Agree.

    Ridiculous that the schools get away with this attitude. Hashem sees all. It baffles me that people in Hanhola don’t realize that everything comes full circle and there are consequences for all of our actions. On another note, hopefully more schools can be created to fill a need for regular bochurim.

    To number 6
    Guest
    To number 6

    Right on my friend

    These Mashpiim
    Guest
    These Mashpiim

    Never got the Rebbe’s message anyway. There’s very little they will be able to give your son, since they themselves have missed the point for literally decades. The yeshivos in EY are much stronger in every aspect. My wife’s younger brother went through similar struggles and when he went out to learn in Toras Emes he completely transformed. He went to they yeshiva and he learned well and he realized that he’s very capable and the yeshivos in CH were backwards. I am very close with him and have seen the change from just being in a happy place with… Read more »

    Spot on
    Guest
    Spot on

    This article is 1,000% correct. And then we want to know why our children are falling through the cracks. They are not. WE are shoving them there. By rejecting them for wanting to be in the right places, but NEVER being good enough why shouldn’t they go where they are welcomed with open arms? To the streets!! Until we start accepting our own kids for being genuinely good kids and accepting them into our own Yeshivas, not one institution has the right to pride themselves on being “one of the best in Lubavitch”. They are ruining our children. The analogy… Read more »

    New Hanhala
    Guest
    New Hanhala

    This article brings to mind what has just occurred in another yeshiva. Since the Yeshiva dared to accept also average Bochurim, not only the super Chasidish, the Hanhala was fired and replaced with new Menhalim that will not ‘shame’ the Yeshiva with such a gross error. I suppose throwing those average Bochurim into the street isnt as terrible as having a good name. Not! By default this makes the whole thing not Chasidish. As far as I understand, and I might be wrong, Chasidus teaches to help others, even ,dare I say, lower than oneself.

    Omg I agree!!!!!!
    Guest
    Omg I agree!!!!!!

    The feeling of rejection doesn’t make you want to you want to get yourself up and grow! Is school created for only perfect kids?!?! I am a high school girl and rejected to schools

    Give up Shluchos!!!
    Guest
    Give up Shluchos!!!

    BH. That’s right. I am a BT for over 20+ years. Grew up in the middle west and move to Crown Heights to meet my bride. Got married to a BT and our son has been rejected from three Mesivtas because, according to the form letters, Our son who is a. A good boy b. Has a good head c. It is not “Chassidisher enough.” It is time to stop putting our people in the field doing “out reach” and start doing “in reach.” I know that in other Chassidisher kehillahs, All the boys are advanced. PERIOD Paragraph. Who are… Read more »

    Hanholas dont believe that the rebbe is chai vkayom
    Guest
    Hanholas dont believe that the rebbe is chai vkayom

    My son due to rejection “because he will be too much work” will go to a local public school

    solution
    Guest
    solution

    send him to touro college and let him get a degree and when yeshivas come to get money from him he will show them.

    they should open more schools like lakewood and other places. people must know that we need our young generation to stay here in crown heights and help our own people . going on shelluchot is a myth start working and make money.

    X shiur daled bochur.
    Guest
    X shiur daled bochur.

    As I just finished shiur daled ot, I can officially say that it’s the most dysfunctional year I had in all six of my yeshiva years. And probably sixty percent of the grade will agree that more or less it’s the same in there case. The reason being: there is no one – literally no one – to talk to in hanhalah if your having any issue in avoidas hashem. Not the mashgiach, not the mashpim, no one. in essence it’s a university where noone cares about the individual student, it’s a factory where if the “cookie” is a little… Read more »

    Options
    Guest
    Options

    Why fight to better a system that is broken and rejects its own students?! Let your son move onto another system, where I am sure he will be successful in. I left yeshiva before shuir Dalet, and moved on to other systems where I ended up excelling and have accomplished a lot. Whereas I look at other peers who have completed shuir dalet and went onto doing Simcha (finishing the system) which don’t have much more frumkiet or feeling of chassiduskiet, with a lack of ambition to go make a life for themselves. It’s very virtuous that you as a… Read more »

    To 23
    Guest
    To 23

    You make a good point, but certainly you can be more tactful while doing so.
    You speak to a parent who is suffering, and the repulsive, condescending tone of your comment makes it difficult to accept the point you are making.
    As Chassidim, feeling for another is #1. Even before a positive attitude towards yeshiva.

    Finally
    Guest
    Finally

    I’ve waited so long for someone to finally address this. I don’t know who this bochur is, and I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the word problem solvers, I just wanna day one thing. It’s long overdue that people start nudging the board of OT to look what’s going g on in their system. I can’t write names because then this won’t be posted, but it’s such a disgrace!! They decide who to accept, how to deal with each one, deny shljchus to people that they don’t like etc. it’s really gotten out of hand and I wait for the… Read more »

    Toras emes is the way to go
    Guest
    Toras emes is the way to go

    Yeshiva toras emes in yerushalayim is definitely the place to go for shiur daled!!!

    Doctor?!
    Guest
    Doctor?!

    I’m not sure why you chose to give the analogy of a doctor who’s job is literally only to heal people
    Who says the job of yeshiva is literally just for ” fry bochrim”?

    ¢$$$$
    Guest
    ¢$$$$

    just pay them full tuition and they will take you with four hands

    Why is there only 2 yeshivos???
    Guest
    Why is there only 2 yeshivos???

    Why can’t every yeshiva have their own shiur daled??? Why does everyone have to pile in to a yeshiva of 200 people (if they get accepted) with absolutely no personal attention?? Its time for yeshivos like LA, toronto, YG, New haven etc, to make a FULL on shiur daled!!! Toras emes in yerushalayim is a great example, they have their OWN shiur daled and a very fantastic one!

    A compassionate Strategy? Or lazy strategy?
    Guest
    A compassionate Strategy? Or lazy strategy?

    Questions that should alarm the public. Does the Yeshiva only reject destructive Bochurim, or Just reject any Bochur that doesn’t fit their mold? Does the Yeshiva have a plan and a quota of non chassidishe Bochurim or just reject everyone, to make life easier for them. Does the Yeshiva actually have space but rejects a Bochur because they’d rather wait and save the space with the hopes that perhaps they can get an elite Bochur to apply instead? Does the Yeshiva try to get elite Bochurim because they feel it will help the Yeshiva? Or BC they’re too lazy to… Read more »

    Mesiftas are scary places
    Guest
    Mesiftas are scary places

    They arent equipped to handle basic guidance problems it seems like they want expressionless bochrim roaming around with hats on. The system fails most of its students. So many good bochrim dont have the desire to learn. So many bochrim just cant connect to the hanholas The problem is not simple to fix So many sichos and so many mamarim that are flowing with lifes answers and secrets. Yet the realty is that we are losing the majority of our youth to colleges Is anyone shocked to see the tznius levels we sunk to? How about the mixed gyms with… Read more »

    I dont get it
    Guest
    I dont get it

    do these yeshivas have an unlimited amount of space?
    Can they accept anyone who wants to be there? Or are they limited in space and therefore need to choose based on who they think will be a goood fit for their yeshiva? Cuz if space is unlimited then yes accept all bochurim. But if there is a limited amount of space I’m not so sure why you think your son is more important than the next bochur over who will be rejected if your son is accepted due to lack of space

    To 21
    Guest
    To 21

    I think you just fixed lubavitch

    Unfortunatly Both Are Right.
    Guest
    Unfortunatly Both Are Right.

    The parents are right: that a yeshiva can not consist of Just Forcing the bochrim to wear the (so called) uniform to dress them up different from what they really are, and Relatively Not investing in them any thing to make them For Real Chassidishe Bochurim Beruchniyus, And Real Mentchen Begashmius, and Just Taking Credit For What Someone Else accomplished with these Bochrim – While they invested relatively nothing. At the same time the parent have to understand, that if you will bring up you children in a way to be modern learned Bochrim to look like Young Israel Style… Read more »

    Hatzlacha
    Guest
    Hatzlacha

    Going along with your analogy of a visit to the Dr , I ask : would you actually even want to be seen by a Dr that didn’t seem to want to help you? Wouldn’t you find another Dr? There are many other yeshivos out there that may be more suitable for your son. Hashem is guiding you elsewhere and you might be pleasantly surprised .

    Wondering
    Guest
    Wondering

    Not sure what you’re complaining about, some Yeshivas do service people that need a “doctor”, but some Yeshivas don’t do that, they are made to serve the people that are healthy and they help them to continue to be healthy

    #18!!!
    Guest
    #18!!!

    Well said. We parents MUST be the fearless advocates for our children. You must do your best to find a yeshivs that really cares for you son and will build him up. I’ve had children destroyed by ” mainstream ‘ top’ and callous schools and nurtured and built up by sometimes less known brilliant and caring mchanchim in less big name places. Go for the real content.

    hatzlaha
    Guest
    hatzlaha

    i would say we as parents dont have a second choice for students who not fitting in the elite ( elite chabad bohrim by being smart , farbrengen etc and by protection as well ) …. so what we need is a new establishment that pairs with all Chabad education , same bohrim from Elite institution have cross classes with all other bohrim as well ( u know we have online classes for all ) but also have new teachers and even college classes as well .
    maybe you can start cater new yeshiva for all ?

    Menahel Responds
    Guest
    Menahel Responds

    Dear Parent, You describe your son as spirituality sick and in need of medical attention. My yeshiva is like a spiritual restaurant which provides spiritual nutrition to hungry bochurim. My yeshiva is also like a spiritual gym where bochurim get spiritual workouts, get in spiritual shape, build spiritual strength. My yeshiva is not a hospital. If your son needs spiritual medical treatment, find a hospital. Don’t complain that the spiritual restaurant or gym doesn’t provide medical treatment. Take your spiritually ill son to a hospital.

    #7 is right
    Guest
    #7 is right

    One of my friend’s chabad daughters couldnt get into chabad seminary and ended up in a litvishe seminary and married a litvish bochur.

    Curious
    Guest
    Curious

    According to this article, when is it okay to reject a bachur from your yeshiva?

    A bubbie whose grandson was rejected
    Guest
    A bubbie whose grandson was rejected

    At the end of the day, there is a din and a daayan. The aibishter bleibt nisht a baal chov. I am not jealous of the Hanholos that will have to answer after 120 as to why they destroyed so many kids and their families.

    To number 10
    Guest
    To number 10

    The difference between then and now is than it wasn’t the norm that everyone had to go to Yeshiva otherwise he’d be considered a failure/dropout therefore if you went you were from the elite, the others were simple chassidim who were probably working.

    However nowaday we created this norm where everyone must go even if it’s really not the best thing for the kid, otherwise he is considered a total disaster, if this is the reality then the same system which created that must atleast work with the bochurim who aren’t as elite as well.

    CHABAD GIRL
    Guest
    CHABAD GIRL

    the chabad yeshiva system is so broken. Is it taking young adults and teenagers and breaking each one of them down . If Lubavitch is so into ecceptance and loving every type of Jew then why are they making us feel like we aren’t good enough for them and tearing us apart like animals. A menahelet of a seminary in Israel personally calls students and rips into them and tells them their faults and how “terrible” they are. The Lubavitch system is ruining us. The non chabad schools are more excepting and will love you for the person that your… Read more »

    Serious question-- would greatly appreciate if someone could respond
    Guest
    Serious question-- would greatly appreciate if someone could respond

    Is Chovevei dorm a good place– have heard mixed reviews… would people recommend it for an out of town bachur (yeshiva ktana) who is looking to learn in the Yeshiva itself (which I know is phenomenal for in-towners…) anyone know anything about this?
    A concerned parent

    Blessing in Disguise
    Guest
    Blessing in Disguise

    They’re telling you we don’t care. It’s sad and unfortunate, but he’s better off in with a hanholoh that will care. Don’t give up!

    Solution
    Guest
    Solution

    Make a new shuir daled in ch! All the students that got rejected from shuir daled should email his parent and together make a new school.

    Try different options
    Guest
    Try different options

    Try maybe to send him to the mir in yerusalem they have real ahavas Israel they except everyone who has a desire to learn your son might have a big Aliyah their they have the best magidei Shiurim and mashpiyim he’ll love it there

    The rebbe would never have stood for this
    Guest
    The rebbe would never have stood for this

    It breaks my heart to think that even after the abundance of incredibly special people working In the rebbes Mosdos, nevertheless the mosdos seem to consistently miss the fundamental point of a yeshiva, which is to teach. The amount of bochurim who fall between the cracks in the yeshiva system is appalling and increases exponentially with every passing year, to the point that 60 percent of my classmates from yeshiva are not frum. The explanation is simple, there is a gaping void in the ability of mashpiim and hanhalos in general to look past the “one flaw” that every person… Read more »

    The hanhalah has an obligation to every student
    Guest
    The hanhalah has an obligation to every student

    The Rebbie used to send my father to test the yeshiva and my father would report back to the Rebbe.. My father told me that everyone thinks he goes to test the students, but in truth he really goes to test the Rebbies. One time when my father returned home from one these test he said ” I see that this year you have o fantastic melamid”.True this rebbe cared for his students and prepared for every lesson etc.This rebbi had a saying “I am not here to teach you for I can teach you for the rest of your… Read more »

    Same story with Seminaries
    Guest
    Same story with Seminaries

    In hindsight all works out for the best! But Merlot needs to support our mosdos! Enough of outreach programmes! We need to spend money and Kochos to keep our kids inspired and on the system!!

    I feel your pain
    Guest
    I feel your pain

    I too had a son that wasn’t the most chassidish bochur 18 years ago. (I did manage to get him in because of Protectzia,)into Oholei Torah.

    I would like to tell #19 and #23 that you should all get off your high horse!!! Lucky for you that you don’t have that challenge!!
    BH today, My son is a Chassidisher yungerman with little kids of his own. This may not have been, if I didn’t fight to get him into the right schools!!

    An actual Yeshiva bochur
    Guest
    An actual Yeshiva bochur

    Let me tell you a little about oheley Torah shiur daled, bochurim come out of it the same way they came in it’s a stop on the Yeshiva train to get to shlichus so I don’t understand the big fuss some of you are making that it’s a elitist Yeshiva and should accept certain bochurim and not others… it’s not fair for all the other bochurim that want shlichus and someone doesn’t get accepted you basically ruined the bochur because most likely will go to one these “programs” and then… ohely torah needs to learn from kevutza which basically accept… Read more »

    Perhaps
    Guest
    Perhaps

    Chances are he will be more successful in his life if he doesn’t waste the entire Shiur Daled and shlichus year. The yeshivas don’t really have anything to offer bochurim, unless the bochur is totally interested and totally immeresed in yeshiva and Kedusha. Yeshiva doesn’t cater to anything down to earth. Principals only speak to students when the student is caught with something deemed illegal. All the energy is directed towards chasing the students. It makes no sense if you think about it, but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. It really hurt me to see human beings, especially… Read more »

    Despicable Comment #23
    Guest
    Despicable Comment #23

    What a horrific despicable comment. The simplest answer to your concerns are this: What if it was your son who wasn’t accepted into Shiur Daled? Would you apply the same vitriolic contempt upon your own child as you have upon this bochur? No real parent could honestly write something so callous. I therefore make this charge: You are clearly a member of hanoholo somewhere feeling the need to defend the indefensible. Shame on you. The issue with some hanholo members is this – they never left the system. They never moved on from the company of teenagers and their emotional… Read more »

    It's all about Connections
    Guest
    It's all about Connections

    Two number 2 and 5 you make him out to be contagious and the father a total idiot who’s taking him to a podiatrist from experience good luck trying to get him into a mainstream Yeshiva Because the first question is which Yeshiva is he coming from and why didn’t they except your son if that’s where he learned his whole life so you are starting off at a disadvantage See you better have a good answer don’t be naive. And as far as only the elite . if you are well connected and come from certain families and or… Read more »

    A general review
    Guest
    A general review

    As a bochur who finished the system a couple of years ago, I’d like to think that to really understand the current climate you need to appreciate several things about today’s yeshivos and more importantly, today’s boys. There are basically four broad categories that most boys fit into: 1) interested in learning and ‘chassiddish’’. 2) interested in learning, frum, and yet not giving the outward desired appearance or behavior. 3) chassidishe bochur who either cannot learn, doesn’t want to, or has disciplinary/attendance issues. 4) not interested or able to learn, and does not give the appearance nor behavior of a… Read more »

    A General Review (Continued)
    Guest
    A General Review (Continued)

    But the true issue debated here is not yeshiva, it’s shiur daled. And it is not the boys who find themselves at a day of reckoning. It’s the yeshivos (excluding chovavei Torah). A brief background: The way shiur daled and shlichus works is only through the close knit cooperation of the bochurim of zal, the hanhala of Zal, and the hanhalos of shiur daled Zal. The Zal has the leverage choosing which shiur daled to accept their shlichim from. The Shiur daled has the more potent leverage of accepting all the bochurim coming from these very yeshivos. And the bochurim… Read more »

    Closed doors lead to seeking open doors
    Guest
    Closed doors lead to seeking open doors

    How elite of you to think OT is the only yeshiva worth going to! Your son isn’t destined for the OTD highway unless you send him there. For those of us with average kids, average incomes, unknown names have faced this for a very long time. Let’s not even discuss going out on shlichus as a future life’s work…. Welcome to the reality many of us live in. Hashgacha Pratis will reveal this too is for the best. Accept who your son actually is and help him reach his true self which may not necessarily be your expectations. PS Emunah… Read more »

    To #56 - The 'Menahel'
    Guest
    To #56 - The 'Menahel'

    Thank you for highlighting everything that is wrong with our current system.

    To you, if someone has a cold, instead of giving him some chicken soup from your ‘spiritual restaurant’ you tell him to go to the hospital. If someone is feeling weak, instead of starting his ‘workout’ slow, you kick him to the curb.

    The very notion that bochurim are always healthy and will never falter is beyond ridiculous and conceited. With leadership like that, I can assure you that your ‘restaurant’ doesn’t have a hechsher and that that your ‘gym’ is not tznius.

    High
    Guest
    High
    To #66 and others
    Guest
    To #66 and others

    This was going on way before Gimmel Tammuz. (for better or worse). Facts are facts.

    An older parent
    Guest
    An older parent

    This unbelievable to me that this is still going on. My son is almost 30. I’ve been told many times that he is a genius and has helped many people over the world.
    We were also told that he was not a good fit for their yeshiva. What does that mean. Why are so many of our young men join the IDF? Because they care about every Jew, treasure them and every one fits. When will the Rosh Yeshivos wake up and educate not judge.

    Highly Recommend chovevei torah
    Guest
    Highly Recommend chovevei torah

    My son spent a year at chovevei torah and I am grateful to Rabbi Blau, Rabbi Tzukernik and the rest of the team for simply actually caring about the Bochurim and understanding the realities of what it means to be a Bochur today.

    PIKUACH NEFESH !
    Guest
    PIKUACH NEFESH !

    a bochur and girl in the yeshivah system these days is PIKUACH NEFESH MAMOSH ! should’t a lubavitcher chosid
    be running to have the zechus in such a great mitzvah?
    see hayom yom 10 nissan:
    אילו יצוייר, אשר ה’ אנה לידו להציל מושב יהודים מכליון, ר”ל, הנה בטח הי’ מוסר נפשו על זה והי’ מהלל ומשבח את השי”ת, לזכותו בזכות גדול .כזה

    thank you for posting your name
    Guest
    thank you for posting your name

    out of touch educators + smartphones+hypocrisy = an alone youth

    The reality
    Guest
    The reality

    The reality is that the vast majority of Bochurim are not going to end up going on Shlichus when they get married, we need our children to know what it means to be an Ehrlicher Yid, have Yiras Shomayim, be mentchlich and honest in business. Having a Hanholoh and Mashpiyim that lead by example and address these issues is step one.

    It has nothing to offer
    Guest
    It has nothing to offer

    Besides for a couple nigle teacher ot is one of the worst yeshivas, which doesn’t care about the bochurim at all and the only reason why people go is for shlichus

    New option
    Guest
    New option

    2018 it has happed to a lot rejections, there’s a new opinion That is marriage 19-20 going into shuir daled has become not so bad to get Married

    To 73
    Guest
    To 73

    This guy is well connected (his uncle is the rosh yeshiva of his son’s current yeshiva), the son is leaving his current yeshiva because they don’t have a shiur dialed, and the author is notably fully capable of paying full tuition. None of those reasons can be blamed for not accepting this Bachur. I’m Not at all saying that the system is perfect, but There’s obviously something else.

    #74 very very thoughtful
    Guest
    #74 very very thoughtful

    A lot of wisdom in your post.

    Yasher Koach!

    Sad
    Guest
    Sad

    This is one of the most silly articles ever written! Have you ever read letters of the rebbe to yeshiva hanhaos? Did you ever hear the story of the bachur who was expelled from lubavitch for intoxicating a goat?
    You acknowledge in the article that you are responsible for your done spiritual situation, then take responsibility for his rejection from yeshiva. Why blame the yeshiva.
    And finally, how dare you say that this wouldn’t happen before gimmul tamuz. It happened many times! And you should be ashamed of yourself for falsely dragging the rebbe into your nonsense.

    REALITY CHECK
    Guest
    REALITY CHECK

    If I was running a hospital (yeshiva) and I was the head doctor (rosh yeshiva) I would have to assess which patients can be treated in my hospital (which bochur is more likely to learn) and which ones would not (which bochur is not the learning type). I am entitled to accept patients that I believe based on my assessments would respond to treatment and for those that would not, they belong in a different hospital. It is true that a parent wants their kid to go to OT or MT only because of the shlichus opportunities they provide. So… Read more »

    I don't get this...
    Guest
    I don't get this...

    Limited space, private school. What gives anyone a “right” to learn somewhere? I was rejected a couple times as a bouchur, HP, life goes on. The “elitist” here is the parent, not the yeshiva.

    bH.
    Guest
    bH.

    Yes, Tomchei Tmimim was just for those who knew a lot of Torah when it was first opened. However, what about the central branch of Tomchei Tmimim in America, 40 years later? There is many a Jew who was not even Lubavitch, but their child went to Tomchei Tmimim because that was the only place that would accept them if the parents could not afford to send their child anywhere else! And these children ended up becoming adults, who have raised prestigious Chabad families of their own! If we want to learn from the history of Tomchei Tmimim, we must… Read more »

    The real challenge
    Guest
    The real challenge

    Running an out of town Yeshiva, the real challenge isn’t accepting a bochur of lower standards or “who isn’t a fit”. Yeshivas are very good at working with all bochurim. I am witness to the great advances many yeshivas have made with bochurim. The challenge/fear yeshivas have is the influence that such a bochur may bring into others. It’s a great responsibility of a yeshiva to take a bochur who may influence others negatively.
    If your child was to be affected negatively by another bochur in yeshiva. You would have likely called thecteshiva tovtask about accepting bochurim with negative influences.

    Our Broken parenting
    Guest
    Our Broken parenting

    Instead of titling your post “the Broken yeshiva system”, why not title it, “the Broken parenting”. I will say just one point which has been brought up so many times over and again. Smart phone, tablets and other internet accessible devices. Parents, I beg of you. Stop buying your children smart phone. Stop allowing others to buy them smart phones or other devices. Buying a child a smart phone for his bar mitzva or the likes, is essentially placing him at the door of what the Alter Rebbe quotes from the Zohar HaKafosh at the very very end of Perek… Read more »

    Add Toras Emes Yeshiva in Yerusholayim to the list.
    Guest
    Add Toras Emes Yeshiva in Yerusholayim to the list.

    I had the same experience (as well as several others)when they rejected them for the same reason””they went fit in”.
    They only wanted the elite bachurim from staten island yeshiva.
    They claim to follow the rebbes derecho when they do the oppsite.this us no better then the segregation that the blacks suffered in the 1960’s.i pray that these so called mechanchim retire and get replaced with Real caring Young understanding mechanchim.amen.

    Former OT bochur
    Guest
    Former OT bochur

    I would like to say that in my opinion OT is way overrated, for me it’s not a yeshiva, it’s more of a university a stop or a hotel, before OT i learned in Brunoy in France and even though I am not the most chasidiche bochur in town I was moved by the seviva and you could feel the chasidishkayt almost inside the walls, and even I that was not so chasidich I was learning every night after seder to the point that many times by shabbos night I had finished all the weekly sichos in my free time… Read more »

    Did you try rabbi Blau
    Guest
    Did you try rabbi Blau

    My son was very happy there

    #56 is perfect answer to this article
    Guest
    #56 is perfect answer to this article

    I am so impressed with #56 for using the
    “moshol” of the article and expanding it to provide a perfect answer to this parent. A sick patient needs a hospital! Yeshiva is like a restaurant providing nutrition to the hungry. Yeshiva is like a gym providing motivation. a work out and exercise to get the bochur strong and in shape. Don’t expect the restaurant or gym to heal the sick. BEAUTIFUL! Well put in a respectful manner. KOL HAKOVOD.

    As a bochur. To number #74
    Guest
    As a bochur. To number #74

    As a bochur, this is 100% right. I fall under the 3rd category. I went to a frum lubavitch school but had little proper limmudei kodesh chinuch (yes, I know, doesn’t make sense, Frum and lubavitch but not a proper chinuch…). Any chance of being up to standard for a bochur was learning out of school, etc. When you say if elementary fails, they could still be salvaged in Mesivta, it’s 100% , I’ve seen tons of other bochurim that were in the same situation as me. And as a note to other bochurim, don’t give up it’s hard and… Read more »

    to Menahel #56
    Guest
    to Menahel #56

    Isn’t the whole Tanya addressing spiritual illnesses?

    It sounds like your yeshiva is only for tzadikim hungry for spiritual nutrition, but does not address the needs of benonim or the other chalukos.

    please clarify.

    Oholei Torah did the same to my son and their loss!!!
    Guest
    Oholei Torah did the same to my son and their loss!!!

    My son had same story. After pushing and getting a meeting for hopefully getting him in, they called him in and just picked fun at him and made him feel like a piece of garbage. Never intending to accept him only to have fun with him and humiliate him. B”h we are very close and he has yiras shomayim, We sent him to a wonderful yeshiva that was very warm and boruch Hashem he got a great shlichus. It’s all from Hashem and truth be told who wants their son in such a place with people who will just break… Read more »

    #96
    Guest
    #96

    If that is in fact oholei torah’s style, all the more reason why they have to be highly selective. They can’t /won’t babysit these bochrim, so they need to make sure to get guys who are self motivated and behave/learn properly without someone on top of them 24/7

    #bachurdrama
    Guest
    #bachurdrama

    Lol we girls thought the boys have it so easy without sem 😂😂😂

    Growth of Lubavitch
    Guest
    Growth of Lubavitch

    As the growth of Lubavitch outpaces the growth and development of our infrastructure, the elitism will become increasingly prevalent – and how could it not. Basic supply and demand. Limited supply of camps, yeshivos, seminaries and schools vs a demand made up of many parents with money and A+ students. Where 30% of chassidishe bochurim used to mean 100 boys – 30% of our larger population means 600 boys. etc etc etc

    To #10
    Guest
    To #10

    I heard that because the shtetl and our times are two different worlds, it’s now sekanos nefashos to keep kids off the streets. Could someone please clarify if there’s a quote from the Rebbe regarding this point?

    Go get a degree
    Guest
    Go get a degree

    Solve the issue by going to Touro and getting yourself a degree, which will enable you to work a productive job and make a life for yourself! Don’t let one system determine your outcome.

    The iker question
    Guest
    The iker question

    Is there any justification for any Chabad school to claim that they are “not the community school”, and therefore allowed to reject students?

    Centralize the system
    Guest
    Centralize the system

    This dichotomy, has been with us for time immemorial. It is spoken of in the famous story in Maseches Brochos between Reb Yehishua and Reb Elazar Ben Azariah, and it seems it wont go away. It has struck me that many of the issues that writers raise, from tuition crises, to yeshiva and sem applications, the solutions can almost always be found in other Chassidic communities. This brings to mind the way Belz do things. Yeshiva application and acceptance does not happen within the each individual Mososd, but rather, one applies for Yeshiva through a central Vaad, and it is… Read more »

    When something doesnt fit our plan it’s “broken”!
    Guest
    When something doesnt fit our plan it’s “broken”!

    It seems like every time something isn’t working for us it’s a “broken system” Politicians use it in their campaigns all the time “our broken healthcare system” or “our broken social security” and so on NOTHING IS BROKEN! Things just didn’t work for you and your son the way you envisioned it should’ve worked I don’t justify the way some Yeshivos do their vetting but it is their process and it had been their process for many years (prior to Gimmel Tomuz as well) There are other options nowadays and really good ones that can answer the need and you… Read more »

    THANK YOU COL
    Guest
    THANK YOU COL

    for providing a forum where everyone can safely express their opinion
    This issue is so huge and so crucially important that even though there is a lot of mean spirited people on here they r outweighed by the others for whom a chinch is paramount

    Change is coming. The only question is who will jump on the bandwagon and when. Certainly sitting on the sidelines is not a solution for the Rebbes children. -our precious sons and daughters

    Triage
    Guest
    Triage

    Taking your doctor moshel, In this instance, the more fitting example would actually be conducting triage at a disaster site. Some people just have to wait to be treated, and others just don’t make it… It’s called life / priorities.

    We are to blame
    Guest
    We are to blame

    Like the author, I too would not survive today’s system. Back in the day, decent bochurim that didn’t fit box were included and had the zchus to learn, stay in the system, and most importantly have a sviva of chasidesher bochurim and mashpiim to strengthen us. In those days, we called today’s way the misnagdisher derech. Then it changed. Parents turned OT into the “Flagship” schhol. Parents decided they will only enroll their angel of a bochural into the finest – Lubavitch Ghetsed version – of a yeshiva. Hanhala had to adapt or become tarred and feathered as the s’past… Read more »

    Parent of 3 boys who are all married
    Guest
    Parent of 3 boys who are all married

    Go to wilkes berry has good yeshivah there my sons all went there were happy they loved it and there’s a rabbi there who knows each and every individual and treats them the same and the whole system of the yeshiva is amazing so dear bochurim who have difficulty with finding a yeshiva i recommend wilkes berry

    Question for #112
    Guest
    Question for #112

    You wrote- “I and many parents I know have found non Lubavitch schools that resemble the Lubavitch of yesteryear and are BH thrilled with the chinuch we are providing our children. ” Please can you list the alternate yeshivas that you found for your child that you are happy with. It is heartbreaking to see some of the elitist comments on here. This attitude can literally turn kids off from Yiddishkeit forever. For those writing like that- if you are a real chossid- It is not a real chassidishe attitude to be so holier than thou. This age is so… Read more »

    Utter hypocrisy
    Guest
    Utter hypocrisy

    Wasn’t it “elitism” in the times before the Baal Shem Tov that required Chassidus to come down and rescue the Jewish people?

    Some options
    Guest
    Some options

    I see that Chovevei Torah and Rabbi Blau were mentioned. It is an excellent option.
    Some parents look at Semicha as an option. Our Semicha program in Miami aims to reach the kind of bochur you describe. Our Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Schechter really devotes himself to the bochurim. Perhaps something to consider.

    Total chitsonios
    Guest
    Total chitsonios

    That’s the new chabbad, the more chasidish the more the focus on the outside! Chasidishe places don’t really care what’s happening inside or the fact that bochurim are robotic and insincere, as long as their shirt is allotted crooked, there pinched hat is a bit dirty and worn and they are wearing a black Yarmulka and shoes they’r good!

    with the old breed
    Guest
    with the old breed

    I was in the same boat. I asked a Chabad Rov and per their advice took my son out and put him in a NON Chabad Yeshiva. Today my Son is in the Top of everY thing. I am so happy and he is doing great. The Almighty is the BOSS. Never give UP!

    Answer to 114
    Guest
    Answer to 114

    YU is excellent plus he will get plenty of chassidus classes too! Check out articles on this website about YU and chassidus classes and visiting Crown Heights. It is the REAL deal in a great yeshiva.

    anon
    Guest
    anon

    cant imagine what it will be like in a few years bc there are ka”h way too many kids for the system. Camps fill up after 12 hrs…the yeshivas desperately needs to expand

    Fire Menahel at #56
    Guest
    Fire Menahel at #56

    I wish you would say which yeshiva you are from because I would make it my mission to get you fired. You do not belong in chinuch! How dare you say that your yeshiva isn’t a hospital and this boy needs spiritual medical treatment?!! WHAT CHUTZPA! Sorry, it is YOU that needs treatment.

    To Comment 23
    Guest
    To Comment 23

    That would be correct if that was the case- 200 elite Bochrim
    However unfortunately about 100 of the Bochrim aren’t very Chassidishe and therefor there is no reason for them to pick and choose since there school doesn’t only take on standard.

    Comment 74/5
    Guest
    Comment 74/5

    Perfectly said! As a former OT bochur couldn’t agree more.

    We need more options
    Guest
    We need more options

    Good morning everyone- girls have been getting rejected from seminaries for years and their parents do not write articles for them- The fact that there are so many rejections should push us to open more yeshivas and seminaries,NOT point fingers at schools that are trying their best.Lets create more schools that cater and care for every student! Stop blaming each other, and do something positive. Clearly Lubavitch is growing BH so we need MORE OPTIONS

    32 and 38
    Guest
    32 and 38

    32

    I see that you can even have an opinion because you know more chassidus then the mashpiim, to determine if they “got the point” or not. that’s why the Rebbe chose them to teach in yeshivos, and you are sitting around writing comments on the internet.

    #38
    that’s not what the rebbe wanted.

    Yeshiva Lerabonus Pretoria South Africa
    Guest
    Yeshiva Lerabonus Pretoria South Africa

    They have an amazing pre-smicha and smicha programme. Boys are looked after and cared for individually. They have an opportunity to sharpen skills in practicle halocha and shlichus in the community at the same time. definitely recommend it.

    To all who say the Rebbe wouldn’t have stood for this
    Guest
    To all who say the Rebbe wouldn’t have stood for this

    Actually the Yeshivos were much much worse before Gimmel Tammuz…
    I’m a life long Lubavitcher- went they the whole system and I’m on shlichus etc
    Our Yeshiva “system” by and large is a colossal failure with very few exceptions
    The girl schools aren’t any better

    Just this last Shabbos I was at a relatives simcha and sat next to two first cousins who are in youth chinuch you just wouldn’t believe the differences
    They understand chinuch. They build their

    dont take
    Guest
    dont take

    Don’t take boys from out of town. BH our community is growing big and we need all the sits in our schools for ourselves.
    I remember once I wanted to send my yeshiva in los angeles after so many phone calls , the principal said ” i’m sorry we don’t accept anyone from out of town we have enough students from Los Angeles” we must take care of our own kids first then give extra sits to others not the opposite.

    Hey
    Guest
    Hey

    Everyone is invited to go to Tzfat

    to #74
    Guest
    to #74

    That was a great explanation of what is going on today.
    Just want to add, whether the Yeshiva is right or wrong, it is Hashgacha protis why you end up where you end up.
    It is unfortunately typical of today’s “victim” “liberal” society to blame everyone else for your problem and blame the hanholah for an individual “going off”, each person has to take responsibility for their own action and just because you got rejected doesn’t mean you need to “go otd” you can still be a frum chasidish person it’s all about your own choices.

    Money
    Guest
    Money

    Crown Heights residents, keep supporting moisdos outside of C.H. and enjoy the down fall of our kids and moisdos. Giving money to any moised, other than Family, is not following the halocha of tzedoka. If you are giving money to shluchim you are going against shulchan aruch and the Rebbe followed shulchan aruch so you’re just doing it for your own pride and hurting your kids, your neighbor and neighborhood.

    Recommended
    Guest
    Recommended

    Eliyahu Bogart and Shlomo Bogart in New Haven address and nurture both the Chasidishe and more light Bochorim. They are inclusive and give it their best.Truly caring and smart.

    What's really "broken in the  Yeshiva system
    Guest
    What's really "broken in the Yeshiva system

    It seems from such an overwhelming response to Rabbi Schochts article, that in some way all are troubled with the system. But if I may add, the real problem is the “confusion” many bochurim have going thru the yeshivah.
    There is a certain lack of clarity on what the true goal is, as a bochur ascends through the Yeshiva system. E g. Is the goal learning or grooming for shlichus…or something altogether different. It has never been fully addressed by hanholos and Roshei Yeshivos
    Pls enlighten me if I am wrong…

    im sorry
    Guest
    im sorry

    i know alot of bachurim who are rejected from yeshivas, and a vast of majority of them i know personally have been very unproductive in their previous years in yeshiva, but bottom line you are making a big mistake, rather then teach your son to react negatively to a fail in social status teach him that he can totally grab this experience by the horns rather then a right an article picturing a failure

    You can't turn to the Rebbe?
    Guest
    You can't turn to the Rebbe?

    You can still write to the Rebbe; he is still our Rebbe, and is still here for us! Perhaps what would help your son is to see that you believe that the Rebbe has the power to help you!

    Every yeshiva is the same
    Guest
    Every yeshiva is the same

    They all want top top bocherim. they say they’re interested in helping but this isn’t help. Im a fellow that has been rejected from several yeshivos stereotyped as a bad bocher because “ not chasidish enough “ this is a broken system . No one wants to help and it’s funny because now look around at our youth and see how that’s working out

    Same story
    Guest
    Same story

    My son who was in OT Zal, about 12 years ago, came w brown shoes, when they told me it was not part of their uniform , I told them tell him, if I had given them 100 grand they would not say anything , money talks , show them the
    green and your son will be in the yeshiva, .
    They do have more chilled boys in the yeshiva guys who touch their beards,have girlfriends…. but their parents are feeding the yeshiva green. The system has not changed!

    Only ONE responding comment from Hanhola
    Guest
    Only ONE responding comment from Hanhola

    At #56 there was ONE and ONLY one comment from a Menahel. That is ONE response from over 135 comments.Hanholahs don’t bother answering to rants on the internet. At least there was one Menahel that answered at #56.

    Never Take Personal Responsibility!
    Guest
    Never Take Personal Responsibility!

    Blame and point fingers at anyone and everyone else! Never take responsibility! If your son applies to university and is rejected – blame the school. If you son tries to get a job and is rejected – blame the employer. If your son fails to find a shidduch – blame the shadchonim. Blame others! That solves the risk of admitting personal failure or the ridiculous notion of seeking to improve your son so that he would be more desirable when applying to…yeshiva, university, job, shidduch etc. It is so much easier to blame others than taking responsibility and actually DOING… Read more »

    Bmokom shelibo chafetz
    Guest
    Bmokom shelibo chafetz

    I agree fully with all who suggest another yeshivah. Sadly, in general we have come to assume that only Chabad system is right. Many other systems of learning..be it Nigleh, chassis, or Torah hashkafos..are also good and have much to offer

    You have comforted me
    Guest
    You have comforted me

    Thank you for this article. When my son was rejected from a certain yeshiva, I thought because I wasn’t choshuv, not gesha, I am not prominent in Chabad circles. It really broke me! But now I see that even someone from such a family as Schochet can also be rejected. After all the Schochet Family is so prominent in Chabad. From the grandfather of this bochur, famous author and speaker Rabbi Immanuel zt”l, to the world renown Rosh in L.A.shlita, to senior rov of Vaad Rabbonei Lubavitch Rav Dovid shlta, to the younger ones like Rabbi Yitzchok Schochet of England… Read more »

    From a Lubavitcher living in Lakewood
    Guest
    From a Lubavitcher living in Lakewood

    I am a Lubavitcher chosid living in Lakewood. I see that much of the Rebbe,s into him and seforim are becoming more accepted there. Yet we can also learn much from them in how much they care for another. And if this may surprise you they greatly support a Chabad mosad I work for in Lakewood.
    They wonder if Chabad does so much for the outside world..shouldn’t it be a kal v,chomer..that we help each other???
    How can a Yeshivah ever reject a bochur???
    In the days of Rashag…this never happened..because by the Rebbe it was mufrach l,gamrei.
    Where are we all headed???

    Let's wake up..and smell the coffe
    Guest
    Let's wake up..and smell the coffe

    Does anyone know the staggering amount of boys who grow up in chassidish homes..and are going off the derech!!???
    Can our Yeshivos say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh?????

    Parshas Shlach
    Guest
    Parshas Shlach

    This would befit publication during the week of Pashas Shlach. The meraglim also proclaimed: Our Broken E.Y. System…as they besmirched and bad mouthed E.Y. just as this article bad mouths the Rebbe’s yeshivos! These yeshivos are the Rebbe’s yeshivos. Do not speak loshon hara about them. Do not spit into the well from which you drank and your children drank.

    Kfar chabad
    Guest
    Kfar chabad

    Send him to learn in central ttl of Eretz haKodesh.

    Fiction
    Guest
    Fiction

    I love when people rewrite history like # 142 writes: “In the days of Rashag…this never happened..” – historical revisionist or plain simple fiction. Just make up how things used to be because many don’t know. Then use hebrew words to make it sound authentic like: “by the Rebbe it was mufrach l,gamrei.” – pure fiction!

    To #143
    Guest
    To #143

    “Can our Yeshivos say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh?????” NO, the REAL question is: Can PARENTS say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh????? By the time the boy reaches yeshiva zal – he is a walking mais (corpse). The parents sent him to pre-1A in a choop (long hair down to his eyes) because it is sooo cute! He wore clothes in the younger years based on the fashions of the day – soooo cute! He was on beaches and pessach hotels – sooo much fun! And suddenly he is supposed to be in a chassidish yeshiva… Read more »

    To 114
    Guest
    To 114

    I spoke to parents in Toronto, Detroit and Monsey that sent kids outside the Lubavitcher system. I’m assuming the Brooklyn, Boltimore, Chicago, LA, Florida, etc. Have options too.

    It’s a very difficult decision and I don’t recommend it for everyone. If you’re ready to put your child’s chinuch and well being ahead of everything else, do your research and daaven for siyata dishmaya.

    Yes yeshivas have a problem but its not all there fault
    Guest
    Yes yeshivas have a problem but its not all there fault

    There is a difference in a bochur who isnt chassidish but wants to be, and a bochur who says they want to be and doesnt try. I am sure you know what goes on with your son, but its about if he tries or not. As someone said before, a bad vibe can ruin it for other bochurim. If he wants to go yeshiva amazing. But it should be somehwere where they make you want to try. Any mainstream yeshiva if you dont have the willpower yourself u miss the boat.

    Bochrim are smarter than you might think
    Guest
    Bochrim are smarter than you might think

    Maybe they see the hypocracy in yhe hanhala? How about the no smart phones rule but the hanahala themselves dont leave home without them. Could it be that they see the double standards of ahavas israel and the selection process yeshivas have contradict eachother? Maybe they see that the hanhalas dont care what bochrim do during the summer Its time for a change

    The Rebbe's mosdos....?
    Guest
    The Rebbe's mosdos....?

    I remember sitting in Kollel and the question came up in shiur about sending kids to non-chabad schools and the idea of ‘unzer ziboris iz besser fun zeyer idis’ (the worst of ours is better than the best of theirs). Rabbi Heller in his sweet sing song voice said (in Yiddish): “Sometimes the (Chabad) institution gets removed by the the category of being ‘ours’.” In other words, just because the Rebbe was involved with the institution, and maybe even founded it, doesn’t give them carte blanche to act how they see fit. When they do things that clearly are contrary… Read more »

    to 147
    Guest
    to 147

    to continue…

    he also saw his Mommy/Tatty/ Counselors on their freakin smartphones/instagram/facebook all day!!!!

    OT is great!!!
    Guest
    OT is great!!!

    My daughter is married today because one of the bochurim used to hang out in my house with my daughter for hours during seder. The hanhola had no clue. This might be the answer to our shidduch crises. 🙂

    Wow
    Guest
    Wow

    Can we be just a bit more open-minded and realize we only heard one side of the story? Can we, as parents, take most of the blame of a child who isn’t doing well instead of oh-so-easily point the finger at the schools? Can we also realize that it’s impossible for any single institution to be able to cater to so many types of children and as parents our job it to search around and find that best place for our specefic child? Are we the best role models for our child? Let’s all take blame for our children’s failings… Read more »

    So upsetting
    Guest
    So upsetting

    Thank you for sharing, it so unfortunate its happening way to often its so easy to say is jst not te right fit I feel your pain I’ve been there

    Unbelievable
    Guest
    Unbelievable

    Guys,EVERYONE IS WHERE THEY WANT TO BE!
    No one has the guts to change the system and then they complain!
    It’s not hanholos who have to make a change. I know many hanholos fed up with the stupidity of the system, but they feel powerless, because the parents are slaves to the system. If one yeshivah changes , then those ‘officialy chasidish’ parents won’t send their kids to that yeshivah etc etc etc

    When it's rotten at the top...
    Guest
    When it's rotten at the top...

    Some of the individuals placed as principals in the entire school have been known throughout the community for so many years as being absurdly unqualified and profoundly incapable. The community turns a blind eye while they are putting orphans in the street, judging them to be “not OT material” as young as 4 years old, not for having special educational needs but for needing extra love, extra care. When these children come home with bruises from old, burned out Rebbies, they scream ADHD in the face of doctors who disagree, because they know nothing, care little and would rather drug… Read more »

    Don't Blame the System
    Guest
    Don't Blame the System

    If there are multiple media machines in the house (TV, iPad etc), if the parent’s dress is questionable, if they simply don’t have a reputation of a chassidishe home, even as they preach and write Rebbe, why does this become the problem of the Yeshiva system? To #141 yes this can happen even in prominent Chabad homes.

    quote
    Guest
    quote

    ‘ I believe in my heart of hearts, that the various hanholos would not have had the audacity to reject bochurim from yeshiva and then face the Rebbe at the next farbrengan.’

    The rebbe would back the Hanholo.

    money/family
    Guest
    money/family

    if you dont have money or you are not son/relative of a ”big” rabbi or rich person FORGET about it

    To #151
    Guest
    To #151

    Thank you for posting!

    Can’t believe it took 135 comments forSomeone to
    Guest
    Can’t believe it took 135 comments forSomeone to

    Remind the author that the Rebbe is with us, you can write him a PaN and he hears us and Davens for us!

    But then again, kudos to the author for posting his name. Wishing you only naches and success from your bochur!

    Bubby
    Guest
    Bubby

    My son was thrown out Yeshiva for a trumped up charge of an over reaction. A pimple made into a mountain. The owner of the misbehavior never owned up to their part. The Rebbe said that when a Yeshiva wants to let a Bochur go they must find him another Yeshiva! This Yeshiva didn’t find him a place. This son was so hurt and devastated he refused to go anywhere. He was very happy in the Yeshiva with his friends. Unhappy with the system who forgets that these are real human beings and their responsibilities. We are throwing out or… Read more »

    See what happens
    Guest
    See what happens

    Yeshiva Mashgiach Attacked in Modi’in Illit For Not Accepting Student Six Years Prior On Motzei Shabbos, HaRav Binyamin Rimmer, the Mashgiach of Yeshivas Tchebin – and son-in -aw of Maran HaRav Elyashiv ZATZAL – was attacked by two men dressed as Chassidim when he was leaving a Simcha Hall in Modi’in Illit. This morning, the incident was made known to the other Rabbonim and the administration of the Tchebin Yeshiva. the yeshiva held an emergency meeting and decided to send an envoy to the Sadigura Rebbe, asking him to excommunicate the attackers, who were identified to be followers of his… Read more »

    Complicated issue
    Guest
    Complicated issue

    Everyone has a personal story and experience etc on both sides of the debate. From parents who had their children rejected, to parents who had their children dragged down from someone the Yeshiva maybe should have rejected, to the Hanhala who need to make these life-altering decisions, to the Bochur who was rejected and found a better place, to the Bochur who was rejected and dropped out to the streets etc etc. Chinuch is tough and no one answer for one situation can be used as indisputable fact in the next situation. This applies to the Mechanchim in the school,… Read more »

    I don't get it
    Guest
    I don't get it

    Everyone keeps on throwing around the word “System” and how broken “System” is.

    Can anybody define for us please WHO or WHAT this “System” is that you all are referring to?

    (Oh we can’t think of anyone in particular to blame it on, let’s blame “System”…)

    No System will ever change if no one can ever give me a straight answer of what exactly this horrible “System” is.

    Answer to #166
    Guest
    Answer to #166

    The “system” is an umbrella term describing the mainstream educational protocol for most Lubavitcher children; the schools that majority of our children attend. It doesn’t include the newer schools that have opened over the past few years.

    Dveikus to those who don't want your dveikus
    Guest
    Dveikus to those who don't want your dveikus

    I live in a city in which some country clubs used to ban Jews from being members. What I never understood is why, when the bans were removed, Jews flocked to join these places and people that didn’t want mingle with Jews until the ban was removed. I think the bans should have remained and a person/Jew would know who doesn’t want him/her around and to spend their time elsewhere. If rabbis say they don’t want to educate and be role models for your son, why do you desperately want them to be your son’s educators and role models? Count… Read more »

    Tachlis!
    Guest
    Tachlis!

    After writing this article (stirring the pot, opening a can of sheratzim, making a tummel) and getting 169 comments, WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED? People vented both emotionally in support of the writer and intellectually against the writer, people had experiences and had negios (subjective views) and yet, WHAT IS THE TACHLIS? Some alked away feeling that the “system” is corrupt, unfair, stacked against them. They lost respect and became more cynical. Others, got an appreciation of the issues every Hanhola must deal with as they balance the interests of the individual vs. the interests of the rest of their students. But… Read more »

    You think this is bad
    Guest
    You think this is bad

    Wait until the article I’m going to submit to COL with real evidence of financial corruption and ego driven agendas that destroys children. There needs to be a Vaad to represent the voices of parents and a Beis Din to effectively resolve these types of cases.

    But are they wrong?
    Guest
    But are they wrong?

    The fact is that if your kid isn’t very “chassidish”, he sure won’t be inspired by their systems. The current system in mainstream yeshivos is incapable of inspiring anyone, and your better off trying to find a non-typical yeshiva. Do you really want your kid exposed to the drugs, smoking, and other things going on in the “top” yechivos, which the hanholo in either clueless about or at least pretends to be?

    X