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Our Broken Yeshiva System…

From the COLlive inbox: "My 19-year-old son was rejected from learning in Shiur Daled at Oholei Torah," writes a broken-hearted father. Full Story

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But are they wrong?
July 2, 2018 5:20 pm

The fact is that if your kid isn’t very “chassidish”, he sure won’t be inspired by their systems. The current system in mainstream yeshivos is incapable of inspiring anyone, and your better off trying to find a non-typical yeshiva. Do you really want your kid exposed to the drugs, smoking, and other things going on in the “top” yechivos, which the hanholo in either clueless about or at least pretends to be?

You think this is bad
June 28, 2018 10:31 pm

Wait until the article I’m going to submit to COL with real evidence of financial corruption and ego driven agendas that destroys children. There needs to be a Vaad to represent the voices of parents and a Beis Din to effectively resolve these types of cases.

Tachlis!
June 28, 2018 9:48 am

After writing this article (stirring the pot, opening a can of sheratzim, making a tummel) and getting 169 comments, WHAT WAS ACCOMPLISHED? People vented both emotionally in support of the writer and intellectually against the writer, people had experiences and had negios (subjective views) and yet, WHAT IS THE TACHLIS? Some alked away feeling that the “system” is corrupt, unfair, stacked against them. They lost respect and became more cynical. Others, got an appreciation of the issues every Hanhola must deal with as they balance the interests of the individual vs. the interests of the rest of their students. But… Read more »

Dveikus to those who don't want your dveikus
June 27, 2018 1:30 am

I live in a city in which some country clubs used to ban Jews from being members. What I never understood is why, when the bans were removed, Jews flocked to join these places and people that didn’t want mingle with Jews until the ban was removed. I think the bans should have remained and a person/Jew would know who doesn’t want him/her around and to spend their time elsewhere. If rabbis say they don’t want to educate and be role models for your son, why do you desperately want them to be your son’s educators and role models? Count… Read more »

Answer to #166
June 26, 2018 5:37 pm

The “system” is an umbrella term describing the mainstream educational protocol for most Lubavitcher children; the schools that majority of our children attend. It doesn’t include the newer schools that have opened over the past few years.

I don't get it
June 25, 2018 8:29 pm

Everyone keeps on throwing around the word “System” and how broken “System” is.

Can anybody define for us please WHO or WHAT this “System” is that you all are referring to?

(Oh we can’t think of anyone in particular to blame it on, let’s blame “System”…)

No System will ever change if no one can ever give me a straight answer of what exactly this horrible “System” is.

Complicated issue
June 25, 2018 10:29 am

Everyone has a personal story and experience etc on both sides of the debate. From parents who had their children rejected, to parents who had their children dragged down from someone the Yeshiva maybe should have rejected, to the Hanhala who need to make these life-altering decisions, to the Bochur who was rejected and found a better place, to the Bochur who was rejected and dropped out to the streets etc etc. Chinuch is tough and no one answer for one situation can be used as indisputable fact in the next situation. This applies to the Mechanchim in the school,… Read more »

See what happens
June 25, 2018 8:18 am

Yeshiva Mashgiach Attacked in Modi’in Illit For Not Accepting Student Six Years Prior On Motzei Shabbos, HaRav Binyamin Rimmer, the Mashgiach of Yeshivas Tchebin – and son-in -aw of Maran HaRav Elyashiv ZATZAL – was attacked by two men dressed as Chassidim when he was leaving a Simcha Hall in Modi’in Illit. This morning, the incident was made known to the other Rabbonim and the administration of the Tchebin Yeshiva. the yeshiva held an emergency meeting and decided to send an envoy to the Sadigura Rebbe, asking him to excommunicate the attackers, who were identified to be followers of his… Read more »

Bubby
June 25, 2018 7:50 am

My son was thrown out Yeshiva for a trumped up charge of an over reaction. A pimple made into a mountain. The owner of the misbehavior never owned up to their part. The Rebbe said that when a Yeshiva wants to let a Bochur go they must find him another Yeshiva! This Yeshiva didn’t find him a place. This son was so hurt and devastated he refused to go anywhere. He was very happy in the Yeshiva with his friends. Unhappy with the system who forgets that these are real human beings and their responsibilities. We are throwing out or… Read more »

Can’t believe it took 135 comments forSomeone to
June 25, 2018 7:41 am

Remind the author that the Rebbe is with us, you can write him a PaN and he hears us and Davens for us!

But then again, kudos to the author for posting his name. Wishing you only naches and success from your bochur!

To #151
June 25, 2018 6:29 am

Thank you for posting!

money/family
June 25, 2018 6:24 am

if you dont have money or you are not son/relative of a ”big” rabbi or rich person FORGET about it

quote
June 25, 2018 4:43 am

‘ I believe in my heart of hearts, that the various hanholos would not have had the audacity to reject bochurim from yeshiva and then face the Rebbe at the next farbrengan.’

The rebbe would back the Hanholo.

Don't Blame the System
June 25, 2018 2:01 am

If there are multiple media machines in the house (TV, iPad etc), if the parent’s dress is questionable, if they simply don’t have a reputation of a chassidishe home, even as they preach and write Rebbe, why does this become the problem of the Yeshiva system? To #141 yes this can happen even in prominent Chabad homes.

When it's rotten at the top...
June 25, 2018 12:47 am

Some of the individuals placed as principals in the entire school have been known throughout the community for so many years as being absurdly unqualified and profoundly incapable. The community turns a blind eye while they are putting orphans in the street, judging them to be “not OT material” as young as 4 years old, not for having special educational needs but for needing extra love, extra care. When these children come home with bruises from old, burned out Rebbies, they scream ADHD in the face of doctors who disagree, because they know nothing, care little and would rather drug… Read more »

Unbelievable
June 25, 2018 12:43 am

Guys,EVERYONE IS WHERE THEY WANT TO BE!
No one has the guts to change the system and then they complain!
It’s not hanholos who have to make a change. I know many hanholos fed up with the stupidity of the system, but they feel powerless, because the parents are slaves to the system. If one yeshivah changes , then those ‘officialy chasidish’ parents won’t send their kids to that yeshivah etc etc etc

So upsetting
June 25, 2018 12:35 am

Thank you for sharing, it so unfortunate its happening way to often its so easy to say is jst not te right fit I feel your pain I’ve been there

Wow
June 24, 2018 10:34 pm

Can we be just a bit more open-minded and realize we only heard one side of the story? Can we, as parents, take most of the blame of a child who isn’t doing well instead of oh-so-easily point the finger at the schools? Can we also realize that it’s impossible for any single institution to be able to cater to so many types of children and as parents our job it to search around and find that best place for our specefic child? Are we the best role models for our child? Let’s all take blame for our children’s failings… Read more »

OT is great!!!
June 24, 2018 10:14 pm

My daughter is married today because one of the bochurim used to hang out in my house with my daughter for hours during seder. The hanhola had no clue. This might be the answer to our shidduch crises. 🙂

to 147
June 24, 2018 8:58 pm

to continue…

he also saw his Mommy/Tatty/ Counselors on their freakin smartphones/instagram/facebook all day!!!!

The Rebbe's mosdos....?
June 24, 2018 8:43 pm

I remember sitting in Kollel and the question came up in shiur about sending kids to non-chabad schools and the idea of ‘unzer ziboris iz besser fun zeyer idis’ (the worst of ours is better than the best of theirs). Rabbi Heller in his sweet sing song voice said (in Yiddish): “Sometimes the (Chabad) institution gets removed by the the category of being ‘ours’.” In other words, just because the Rebbe was involved with the institution, and maybe even founded it, doesn’t give them carte blanche to act how they see fit. When they do things that clearly are contrary… Read more »

Bochrim are smarter than you might think
June 24, 2018 8:37 pm

Maybe they see the hypocracy in yhe hanhala? How about the no smart phones rule but the hanahala themselves dont leave home without them. Could it be that they see the double standards of ahavas israel and the selection process yeshivas have contradict eachother? Maybe they see that the hanhalas dont care what bochrim do during the summer Its time for a change

Yes yeshivas have a problem but its not all there fault
June 24, 2018 7:44 pm

There is a difference in a bochur who isnt chassidish but wants to be, and a bochur who says they want to be and doesnt try. I am sure you know what goes on with your son, but its about if he tries or not. As someone said before, a bad vibe can ruin it for other bochurim. If he wants to go yeshiva amazing. But it should be somehwere where they make you want to try. Any mainstream yeshiva if you dont have the willpower yourself u miss the boat.

To 114
June 24, 2018 7:25 pm

I spoke to parents in Toronto, Detroit and Monsey that sent kids outside the Lubavitcher system. I’m assuming the Brooklyn, Boltimore, Chicago, LA, Florida, etc. Have options too.

It’s a very difficult decision and I don’t recommend it for everyone. If you’re ready to put your child’s chinuch and well being ahead of everything else, do your research and daaven for siyata dishmaya.

To #143
June 24, 2018 6:58 pm

“Can our Yeshivos say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh?????” NO, the REAL question is: Can PARENTS say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh????? By the time the boy reaches yeshiva zal – he is a walking mais (corpse). The parents sent him to pre-1A in a choop (long hair down to his eyes) because it is sooo cute! He wore clothes in the younger years based on the fashions of the day – soooo cute! He was on beaches and pessach hotels – sooo much fun! And suddenly he is supposed to be in a chassidish yeshiva… Read more »

Fiction
June 24, 2018 6:51 pm

I love when people rewrite history like # 142 writes: “In the days of Rashag…this never happened..” – historical revisionist or plain simple fiction. Just make up how things used to be because many don’t know. Then use hebrew words to make it sound authentic like: “by the Rebbe it was mufrach l,gamrei.” – pure fiction!

Kfar chabad
June 24, 2018 6:42 pm

Send him to learn in central ttl of Eretz haKodesh.

Parshas Shlach
June 24, 2018 6:07 pm

This would befit publication during the week of Pashas Shlach. The meraglim also proclaimed: Our Broken E.Y. System…as they besmirched and bad mouthed E.Y. just as this article bad mouths the Rebbe’s yeshivos! These yeshivos are the Rebbe’s yeshivos. Do not speak loshon hara about them. Do not spit into the well from which you drank and your children drank.

Let's wake up..and smell the coffe
June 24, 2018 5:28 pm

Does anyone know the staggering amount of boys who grow up in chassidish homes..and are going off the derech!!???
Can our Yeshivos say in truth…Yodenu lo shafchu es Hadom hazeh?????

From a Lubavitcher living in Lakewood
June 24, 2018 5:22 pm

I am a Lubavitcher chosid living in Lakewood. I see that much of the Rebbe,s into him and seforim are becoming more accepted there. Yet we can also learn much from them in how much they care for another. And if this may surprise you they greatly support a Chabad mosad I work for in Lakewood. They wonder if Chabad does so much for the outside world..shouldn’t it be a kal v,chomer..that we help each other??? How can a Yeshivah ever reject a bochur??? In the days of Rashag…this never happened..because by the Rebbe it was mufrach l,gamrei. Where are… Read more »

You have comforted me
June 24, 2018 4:54 pm

Thank you for this article. When my son was rejected from a certain yeshiva, I thought because I wasn’t choshuv, not gesha, I am not prominent in Chabad circles. It really broke me! But now I see that even someone from such a family as Schochet can also be rejected. After all the Schochet Family is so prominent in Chabad. From the grandfather of this bochur, famous author and speaker Rabbi Immanuel zt”l, to the world renown Rosh in L.A.shlita, to senior rov of Vaad Rabbonei Lubavitch Rav Dovid shlta, to the younger ones like Rabbi Yitzchok Schochet of England… Read more »

Bmokom shelibo chafetz
June 24, 2018 4:32 pm

I agree fully with all who suggest another yeshivah. Sadly, in general we have come to assume that only Chabad system is right. Many other systems of learning..be it Nigleh, chassis, or Torah hashkafos..are also good and have much to offer

Never Take Personal Responsibility!
June 24, 2018 4:27 pm

Blame and point fingers at anyone and everyone else! Never take responsibility! If your son applies to university and is rejected – blame the school. If you son tries to get a job and is rejected – blame the employer. If your son fails to find a shidduch – blame the shadchonim. Blame others! That solves the risk of admitting personal failure or the ridiculous notion of seeking to improve your son so that he would be more desirable when applying to…yeshiva, university, job, shidduch etc. It is so much easier to blame others than taking responsibility and actually DOING… Read more »

Only ONE responding comment from Hanhola
June 24, 2018 4:16 pm

At #56 there was ONE and ONLY one comment from a Menahel. That is ONE response from over 135 comments.Hanholahs don’t bother answering to rants on the internet. At least there was one Menahel that answered at #56.

Same story
June 24, 2018 3:52 pm

My son who was in OT Zal, about 12 years ago, came w brown shoes, when they told me it was not part of their uniform , I told them tell him, if I had given them 100 grand they would not say anything , money talks , show them the
green and your son will be in the yeshiva, .
They do have more chilled boys in the yeshiva guys who touch their beards,have girlfriends…. but their parents are feeding the yeshiva green. The system has not changed!

Every yeshiva is the same
June 24, 2018 3:02 pm

They all want top top bocherim. they say they’re interested in helping but this isn’t help. Im a fellow that has been rejected from several yeshivos stereotyped as a bad bocher because “ not chasidish enough “ this is a broken system . No one wants to help and it’s funny because now look around at our youth and see how that’s working out

You can't turn to the Rebbe?
June 24, 2018 2:50 pm

You can still write to the Rebbe; he is still our Rebbe, and is still here for us! Perhaps what would help your son is to see that you believe that the Rebbe has the power to help you!

im sorry
June 24, 2018 2:05 pm

i know alot of bachurim who are rejected from yeshivas, and a vast of majority of them i know personally have been very unproductive in their previous years in yeshiva, but bottom line you are making a big mistake, rather then teach your son to react negatively to a fail in social status teach him that he can totally grab this experience by the horns rather then a right an article picturing a failure

What's really "broken in the Yeshiva system
June 24, 2018 1:55 pm

It seems from such an overwhelming response to Rabbi Schochts article, that in some way all are troubled with the system. But if I may add, the real problem is the “confusion” many bochurim have going thru the yeshivah.
There is a certain lack of clarity on what the true goal is, as a bochur ascends through the Yeshiva system. E g. Is the goal learning or grooming for shlichus…or something altogether different. It has never been fully addressed by hanholos and Roshei Yeshivos
Pls enlighten me if I am wrong…

Recommended
June 24, 2018 1:13 pm

Eliyahu Bogart and Shlomo Bogart in New Haven address and nurture both the Chasidishe and more light Bochorim. They are inclusive and give it their best.Truly caring and smart.

Money
June 24, 2018 1:03 pm

Crown Heights residents, keep supporting moisdos outside of C.H. and enjoy the down fall of our kids and moisdos. Giving money to any moised, other than Family, is not following the halocha of tzedoka. If you are giving money to shluchim you are going against shulchan aruch and the Rebbe followed shulchan aruch so you’re just doing it for your own pride and hurting your kids, your neighbor and neighborhood.

to #74
June 24, 2018 1:01 pm

That was a great explanation of what is going on today.
Just want to add, whether the Yeshiva is right or wrong, it is Hashgacha protis why you end up where you end up.
It is unfortunately typical of today’s “victim” “liberal” society to blame everyone else for your problem and blame the hanholah for an individual “going off”, each person has to take responsibility for their own action and just because you got rejected doesn’t mean you need to “go otd” you can still be a frum chasidish person it’s all about your own choices.

Hey
June 24, 2018 12:59 pm

Everyone is invited to go to Tzfat

dont take
June 24, 2018 12:46 pm

Don’t take boys from out of town. BH our community is growing big and we need all the sits in our schools for ourselves.
I remember once I wanted to send my yeshiva in los angeles after so many phone calls , the principal said ” i’m sorry we don’t accept anyone from out of town we have enough students from Los Angeles” we must take care of our own kids first then give extra sits to others not the opposite.

To all who say the Rebbe wouldn’t have stood for this
June 24, 2018 12:26 pm

Actually the Yeshivos were much much worse before Gimmel Tammuz…
I’m a life long Lubavitcher- went they the whole system and I’m on shlichus etc
Our Yeshiva “system” by and large is a colossal failure with very few exceptions
The girl schools aren’t any better

Just this last Shabbos I was at a relatives simcha and sat next to two first cousins who are in youth chinuch you just wouldn’t believe the differences
They understand chinuch. They build their

Yeshiva Lerabonus Pretoria South Africa
June 24, 2018 12:20 pm

They have an amazing pre-smicha and smicha programme. Boys are looked after and cared for individually. They have an opportunity to sharpen skills in practicle halocha and shlichus in the community at the same time. definitely recommend it.

32 and 38
June 24, 2018 12:18 pm

32

I see that you can even have an opinion because you know more chassidus then the mashpiim, to determine if they “got the point” or not. that’s why the Rebbe chose them to teach in yeshivos, and you are sitting around writing comments on the internet.

#38
that’s not what the rebbe wanted.

We need more options
June 24, 2018 11:27 am

Good morning everyone- girls have been getting rejected from seminaries for years and their parents do not write articles for them- The fact that there are so many rejections should push us to open more yeshivas and seminaries,NOT point fingers at schools that are trying their best.Lets create more schools that cater and care for every student! Stop blaming each other, and do something positive. Clearly Lubavitch is growing BH so we need MORE OPTIONS

Comment 74/5
June 24, 2018 11:26 am

Perfectly said! As a former OT bochur couldn’t agree more.

To Comment 23
June 24, 2018 11:23 am

That would be correct if that was the case- 200 elite Bochrim
However unfortunately about 100 of the Bochrim aren’t very Chassidishe and therefor there is no reason for them to pick and choose since there school doesn’t only take on standard.

Fire Menahel at #56
June 24, 2018 11:15 am

I wish you would say which yeshiva you are from because I would make it my mission to get you fired. You do not belong in chinuch! How dare you say that your yeshiva isn’t a hospital and this boy needs spiritual medical treatment?!! WHAT CHUTZPA! Sorry, it is YOU that needs treatment.

anon
June 24, 2018 11:07 am

cant imagine what it will be like in a few years bc there are ka”h way too many kids for the system. Camps fill up after 12 hrs…the yeshivas desperately needs to expand

Answer to 114
June 24, 2018 11:06 am

YU is excellent plus he will get plenty of chassidus classes too! Check out articles on this website about YU and chassidus classes and visiting Crown Heights. It is the REAL deal in a great yeshiva.

with the old breed
June 24, 2018 10:49 am

I was in the same boat. I asked a Chabad Rov and per their advice took my son out and put him in a NON Chabad Yeshiva. Today my Son is in the Top of everY thing. I am so happy and he is doing great. The Almighty is the BOSS. Never give UP!

Total chitsonios
June 24, 2018 10:47 am

That’s the new chabbad, the more chasidish the more the focus on the outside! Chasidishe places don’t really care what’s happening inside or the fact that bochurim are robotic and insincere, as long as their shirt is allotted crooked, there pinched hat is a bit dirty and worn and they are wearing a black Yarmulka and shoes they’r good!

Some options
June 24, 2018 10:40 am

I see that Chovevei Torah and Rabbi Blau were mentioned. It is an excellent option.
Some parents look at Semicha as an option. Our Semicha program in Miami aims to reach the kind of bochur you describe. Our Rosh Yeshiva, Rabbi Aryeh Schechter really devotes himself to the bochurim. Perhaps something to consider.

Utter hypocrisy
June 24, 2018 10:22 am

Wasn’t it “elitism” in the times before the Baal Shem Tov that required Chassidus to come down and rescue the Jewish people?

Question for #112
June 24, 2018 10:19 am

You wrote- “I and many parents I know have found non Lubavitch schools that resemble the Lubavitch of yesteryear and are BH thrilled with the chinuch we are providing our children. ” Please can you list the alternate yeshivas that you found for your child that you are happy with. It is heartbreaking to see some of the elitist comments on here. This attitude can literally turn kids off from Yiddishkeit forever. For those writing like that- if you are a real chossid- It is not a real chassidishe attitude to be so holier than thou. This age is so… Read more »

Parent of 3 boys who are all married
June 24, 2018 9:44 am

Go to wilkes berry has good yeshivah there my sons all went there were happy they loved it and there’s a rabbi there who knows each and every individual and treats them the same and the whole system of the yeshiva is amazing so dear bochurim who have difficulty with finding a yeshiva i recommend wilkes berry

We are to blame
June 24, 2018 9:35 am

Like the author, I too would not survive today’s system. Back in the day, decent bochurim that didn’t fit box were included and had the zchus to learn, stay in the system, and most importantly have a sviva of chasidesher bochurim and mashpiim to strengthen us. In those days, we called today’s way the misnagdisher derech. Then it changed. Parents turned OT into the “Flagship” schhol. Parents decided they will only enroll their angel of a bochural into the finest – Lubavitch Ghetsed version – of a yeshiva. Hanhala had to adapt or become tarred and feathered as the s’past… Read more »

Triage
June 24, 2018 9:19 am

Taking your doctor moshel, In this instance, the more fitting example would actually be conducting triage at a disaster site. Some people just have to wait to be treated, and others just don’t make it… It’s called life / priorities.

THANK YOU COL
June 24, 2018 9:17 am

for providing a forum where everyone can safely express their opinion
This issue is so huge and so crucially important that even though there is a lot of mean spirited people on here they r outweighed by the others for whom a chinch is paramount

Change is coming. The only question is who will jump on the bandwagon and when. Certainly sitting on the sidelines is not a solution for the Rebbes children. -our precious sons and daughters

When something doesnt fit our plan it’s “broken”!
June 24, 2018 9:12 am

It seems like every time something isn’t working for us it’s a “broken system” Politicians use it in their campaigns all the time “our broken healthcare system” or “our broken social security” and so on NOTHING IS BROKEN! Things just didn’t work for you and your son the way you envisioned it should’ve worked I don’t justify the way some Yeshivos do their vetting but it is their process and it had been their process for many years (prior to Gimmel Tomuz as well) There are other options nowadays and really good ones that can answer the need and you… Read more »

Centralize the system
June 24, 2018 9:01 am

This dichotomy, has been with us for time immemorial. It is spoken of in the famous story in Maseches Brochos between Reb Yehishua and Reb Elazar Ben Azariah, and it seems it wont go away. It has struck me that many of the issues that writers raise, from tuition crises, to yeshiva and sem applications, the solutions can almost always be found in other Chassidic communities. This brings to mind the way Belz do things. Yeshiva application and acceptance does not happen within the each individual Mososd, but rather, one applies for Yeshiva through a central Vaad, and it is… Read more »

The iker question
June 24, 2018 9:01 am

Is there any justification for any Chabad school to claim that they are “not the community school”, and therefore allowed to reject students?

Go get a degree
June 24, 2018 8:51 am

Solve the issue by going to Touro and getting yourself a degree, which will enable you to work a productive job and make a life for yourself! Don’t let one system determine your outcome.

To #10
June 24, 2018 8:41 am

I heard that because the shtetl and our times are two different worlds, it’s now sekanos nefashos to keep kids off the streets. Could someone please clarify if there’s a quote from the Rebbe regarding this point?

Growth of Lubavitch
June 24, 2018 8:39 am

As the growth of Lubavitch outpaces the growth and development of our infrastructure, the elitism will become increasingly prevalent – and how could it not. Basic supply and demand. Limited supply of camps, yeshivos, seminaries and schools vs a demand made up of many parents with money and A+ students. Where 30% of chassidishe bochurim used to mean 100 boys – 30% of our larger population means 600 boys. etc etc etc

#bachurdrama
June 24, 2018 8:16 am

Lol we girls thought the boys have it so easy without sem 😂😂😂

#96
June 24, 2018 8:07 am

If that is in fact oholei torah’s style, all the more reason why they have to be highly selective. They can’t /won’t babysit these bochrim, so they need to make sure to get guys who are self motivated and behave/learn properly without someone on top of them 24/7

Oholei Torah did the same to my son and their loss!!!
June 24, 2018 8:00 am

My son had same story. After pushing and getting a meeting for hopefully getting him in, they called him in and just picked fun at him and made him feel like a piece of garbage. Never intending to accept him only to have fun with him and humiliate him. B”h we are very close and he has yiras shomayim, We sent him to a wonderful yeshiva that was very warm and boruch Hashem he got a great shlichus. It’s all from Hashem and truth be told who wants their son in such a place with people who will just break… Read more »

to Menahel #56
June 24, 2018 7:31 am

Isn’t the whole Tanya addressing spiritual illnesses?

It sounds like your yeshiva is only for tzadikim hungry for spiritual nutrition, but does not address the needs of benonim or the other chalukos.

please clarify.

As a bochur. To number #74
June 24, 2018 7:20 am

As a bochur, this is 100% right. I fall under the 3rd category. I went to a frum lubavitch school but had little proper limmudei kodesh chinuch (yes, I know, doesn’t make sense, Frum and lubavitch but not a proper chinuch…). Any chance of being up to standard for a bochur was learning out of school, etc. When you say if elementary fails, they could still be salvaged in Mesivta, it’s 100% , I’ve seen tons of other bochurim that were in the same situation as me. And as a note to other bochurim, don’t give up it’s hard and… Read more »

#56 is perfect answer to this article
June 24, 2018 7:13 am

I am so impressed with #56 for using the
“moshol” of the article and expanding it to provide a perfect answer to this parent. A sick patient needs a hospital! Yeshiva is like a restaurant providing nutrition to the hungry. Yeshiva is like a gym providing motivation. a work out and exercise to get the bochur strong and in shape. Don’t expect the restaurant or gym to heal the sick. BEAUTIFUL! Well put in a respectful manner. KOL HAKOVOD.

Did you try rabbi Blau
June 24, 2018 6:38 am

My son was very happy there

Former OT bochur
June 24, 2018 6:31 am

I would like to say that in my opinion OT is way overrated, for me it’s not a yeshiva, it’s more of a university a stop or a hotel, before OT i learned in Brunoy in France and even though I am not the most chasidiche bochur in town I was moved by the seviva and you could feel the chasidishkayt almost inside the walls, and even I that was not so chasidich I was learning every night after seder to the point that many times by shabbos night I had finished all the weekly sichos in my free time… Read more »

Add Toras Emes Yeshiva in Yerusholayim to the list.
June 24, 2018 6:27 am

I had the same experience (as well as several others)when they rejected them for the same reason””they went fit in”.
They only wanted the elite bachurim from staten island yeshiva.
They claim to follow the rebbes derecho when they do the oppsite.this us no better then the segregation that the blacks suffered in the 1960’s.i pray that these so called mechanchim retire and get replaced with Real caring Young understanding mechanchim.amen.

Our Broken parenting
June 24, 2018 6:08 am

Instead of titling your post “the Broken yeshiva system”, why not title it, “the Broken parenting”. I will say just one point which has been brought up so many times over and again. Smart phone, tablets and other internet accessible devices. Parents, I beg of you. Stop buying your children smart phone. Stop allowing others to buy them smart phones or other devices. Buying a child a smart phone for his bar mitzva or the likes, is essentially placing him at the door of what the Alter Rebbe quotes from the Zohar HaKafosh at the very very end of Perek… Read more »

The real challenge
June 24, 2018 5:58 am

Running an out of town Yeshiva, the real challenge isn’t accepting a bochur of lower standards or “who isn’t a fit”. Yeshivas are very good at working with all bochurim. I am witness to the great advances many yeshivas have made with bochurim. The challenge/fear yeshivas have is the influence that such a bochur may bring into others. It’s a great responsibility of a yeshiva to take a bochur who may influence others negatively.
If your child was to be affected negatively by another bochur in yeshiva. You would have likely called thecteshiva tovtask about accepting bochurim with negative influences.

bH.
June 24, 2018 5:49 am

Yes, Tomchei Tmimim was just for those who knew a lot of Torah when it was first opened. However, what about the central branch of Tomchei Tmimim in America, 40 years later? There is many a Jew who was not even Lubavitch, but their child went to Tomchei Tmimim because that was the only place that would accept them if the parents could not afford to send their child anywhere else! And these children ended up becoming adults, who have raised prestigious Chabad families of their own! If we want to learn from the history of Tomchei Tmimim, we must… Read more »

I don't get this...
June 24, 2018 3:52 am

Limited space, private school. What gives anyone a “right” to learn somewhere? I was rejected a couple times as a bouchur, HP, life goes on. The “elitist” here is the parent, not the yeshiva.

REALITY CHECK
June 24, 2018 3:45 am

If I was running a hospital (yeshiva) and I was the head doctor (rosh yeshiva) I would have to assess which patients can be treated in my hospital (which bochur is more likely to learn) and which ones would not (which bochur is not the learning type). I am entitled to accept patients that I believe based on my assessments would respond to treatment and for those that would not, they belong in a different hospital. It is true that a parent wants their kid to go to OT or MT only because of the shlichus opportunities they provide. So… Read more »

Sad
June 24, 2018 3:43 am

This is one of the most silly articles ever written! Have you ever read letters of the rebbe to yeshiva hanhaos? Did you ever hear the story of the bachur who was expelled from lubavitch for intoxicating a goat?
You acknowledge in the article that you are responsible for your done spiritual situation, then take responsibility for his rejection from yeshiva. Why blame the yeshiva.
And finally, how dare you say that this wouldn’t happen before gimmul tamuz. It happened many times! And you should be ashamed of yourself for falsely dragging the rebbe into your nonsense.

#74 very very thoughtful
June 24, 2018 2:36 am

A lot of wisdom in your post.

Yasher Koach!

To 73
June 24, 2018 2:30 am

This guy is well connected (his uncle is the rosh yeshiva of his son’s current yeshiva), the son is leaving his current yeshiva because they don’t have a shiur dialed, and the author is notably fully capable of paying full tuition. None of those reasons can be blamed for not accepting this Bachur. I’m Not at all saying that the system is perfect, but There’s obviously something else.

New option
June 24, 2018 2:30 am

2018 it has happed to a lot rejections, there’s a new opinion That is marriage 19-20 going into shuir daled has become not so bad to get Married

It has nothing to offer
June 24, 2018 2:26 am

Besides for a couple nigle teacher ot is one of the worst yeshivas, which doesn’t care about the bochurim at all and the only reason why people go is for shlichus

The reality
June 24, 2018 2:16 am

The reality is that the vast majority of Bochurim are not going to end up going on Shlichus when they get married, we need our children to know what it means to be an Ehrlicher Yid, have Yiras Shomayim, be mentchlich and honest in business. Having a Hanholoh and Mashpiyim that lead by example and address these issues is step one.

thank you for posting your name
June 24, 2018 2:11 am

out of touch educators + smartphones+hypocrisy = an alone youth

PIKUACH NEFESH !
June 24, 2018 2:07 am

a bochur and girl in the yeshivah system these days is PIKUACH NEFESH MAMOSH ! should’t a lubavitcher chosid
be running to have the zechus in such a great mitzvah?
see hayom yom 10 nissan:
אילו יצוייר, אשר ה’ אנה לידו להציל מושב יהודים מכליון, ר”ל, הנה בטח הי’ מוסר נפשו על זה והי’ מהלל ומשבח את השי”ת, לזכותו בזכות גדול .כזה

Highly Recommend chovevei torah
June 24, 2018 2:05 am

My son spent a year at chovevei torah and I am grateful to Rabbi Blau, Rabbi Tzukernik and the rest of the team for simply actually caring about the Bochurim and understanding the realities of what it means to be a Bochur today.

An older parent
June 24, 2018 1:57 am

This unbelievable to me that this is still going on. My son is almost 30. I’ve been told many times that he is a genius and has helped many people over the world.
We were also told that he was not a good fit for their yeshiva. What does that mean. Why are so many of our young men join the IDF? Because they care about every Jew, treasure them and every one fits. When will the Rosh Yeshivos wake up and educate not judge.

To #66 and others
June 24, 2018 1:49 am

This was going on way before Gimmel Tammuz. (for better or worse). Facts are facts.

High
June 24, 2018 1:48 am
To #56 - The 'Menahel'
June 24, 2018 1:46 am

Thank you for highlighting everything that is wrong with our current system.

To you, if someone has a cold, instead of giving him some chicken soup from your ‘spiritual restaurant’ you tell him to go to the hospital. If someone is feeling weak, instead of starting his ‘workout’ slow, you kick him to the curb.

The very notion that bochurim are always healthy and will never falter is beyond ridiculous and conceited. With leadership like that, I can assure you that your ‘restaurant’ doesn’t have a hechsher and that that your ‘gym’ is not tznius.

Closed doors lead to seeking open doors
June 24, 2018 1:46 am

How elite of you to think OT is the only yeshiva worth going to! Your son isn’t destined for the OTD highway unless you send him there. For those of us with average kids, average incomes, unknown names have faced this for a very long time. Let’s not even discuss going out on shlichus as a future life’s work…. Welcome to the reality many of us live in. Hashgacha Pratis will reveal this too is for the best. Accept who your son actually is and help him reach his true self which may not necessarily be your expectations. PS Emunah… Read more »

A General Review (Continued)
June 24, 2018 1:44 am

But the true issue debated here is not yeshiva, it’s shiur daled. And it is not the boys who find themselves at a day of reckoning. It’s the yeshivos (excluding chovavei Torah). A brief background: The way shiur daled and shlichus works is only through the close knit cooperation of the bochurim of zal, the hanhala of Zal, and the hanhalos of shiur daled Zal. The Zal has the leverage choosing which shiur daled to accept their shlichim from. The Shiur daled has the more potent leverage of accepting all the bochurim coming from these very yeshivos. And the bochurim… Read more »

A general review
June 24, 2018 1:19 am

As a bochur who finished the system a couple of years ago, I’d like to think that to really understand the current climate you need to appreciate several things about today’s yeshivos and more importantly, today’s boys. There are basically four broad categories that most boys fit into: 1) interested in learning and ‘chassiddish’’. 2) interested in learning, frum, and yet not giving the outward desired appearance or behavior. 3) chassidishe bochur who either cannot learn, doesn’t want to, or has disciplinary/attendance issues. 4) not interested or able to learn, and does not give the appearance nor behavior of a… Read more »

It's all about Connections
June 24, 2018 1:18 am

Two number 2 and 5 you make him out to be contagious and the father a total idiot who’s taking him to a podiatrist from experience good luck trying to get him into a mainstream Yeshiva Because the first question is which Yeshiva is he coming from and why didn’t they except your son if that’s where he learned his whole life so you are starting off at a disadvantage See you better have a good answer don’t be naive. And as far as only the elite . if you are well connected and come from certain families and or… Read more »

Despicable Comment #23
June 24, 2018 1:11 am

What a horrific despicable comment. The simplest answer to your concerns are this: What if it was your son who wasn’t accepted into Shiur Daled? Would you apply the same vitriolic contempt upon your own child as you have upon this bochur? No real parent could honestly write something so callous. I therefore make this charge: You are clearly a member of hanoholo somewhere feeling the need to defend the indefensible. Shame on you. The issue with some hanholo members is this – they never left the system. They never moved on from the company of teenagers and their emotional… Read more »

Perhaps
June 24, 2018 1:08 am

Chances are he will be more successful in his life if he doesn’t waste the entire Shiur Daled and shlichus year. The yeshivas don’t really have anything to offer bochurim, unless the bochur is totally interested and totally immeresed in yeshiva and Kedusha. Yeshiva doesn’t cater to anything down to earth. Principals only speak to students when the student is caught with something deemed illegal. All the energy is directed towards chasing the students. It makes no sense if you think about it, but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. It really hurt me to see human beings, especially… Read more »

An actual Yeshiva bochur
June 24, 2018 12:52 am

Let me tell you a little about oheley Torah shiur daled, bochurim come out of it the same way they came in it’s a stop on the Yeshiva train to get to shlichus so I don’t understand the big fuss some of you are making that it’s a elitist Yeshiva and should accept certain bochurim and not others… it’s not fair for all the other bochurim that want shlichus and someone doesn’t get accepted you basically ruined the bochur because most likely will go to one these “programs” and then… ohely torah needs to learn from kevutza which basically accept… Read more »

I feel your pain
June 24, 2018 12:51 am

I too had a son that wasn’t the most chassidish bochur 18 years ago. (I did manage to get him in because of Protectzia,)into Oholei Torah.

I would like to tell #19 and #23 that you should all get off your high horse!!! Lucky for you that you don’t have that challenge!!
BH today, My son is a Chassidisher yungerman with little kids of his own. This may not have been, if I didn’t fight to get him into the right schools!!

Same story with Seminaries
June 24, 2018 12:51 am

In hindsight all works out for the best! But Merlot needs to support our mosdos! Enough of outreach programmes! We need to spend money and Kochos to keep our kids inspired and on the system!!

The hanhalah has an obligation to every student
June 24, 2018 12:41 am

The Rebbie used to send my father to test the yeshiva and my father would report back to the Rebbe.. My father told me that everyone thinks he goes to test the students, but in truth he really goes to test the Rebbies. One time when my father returned home from one these test he said ” I see that this year you have o fantastic melamid”.True this rebbe cared for his students and prepared for every lesson etc.This rebbi had a saying “I am not here to teach you for I can teach you for the rest of your… Read more »

The rebbe would never have stood for this
June 24, 2018 12:36 am

It breaks my heart to think that even after the abundance of incredibly special people working In the rebbes Mosdos, nevertheless the mosdos seem to consistently miss the fundamental point of a yeshiva, which is to teach. The amount of bochurim who fall between the cracks in the yeshiva system is appalling and increases exponentially with every passing year, to the point that 60 percent of my classmates from yeshiva are not frum. The explanation is simple, there is a gaping void in the ability of mashpiim and hanhalos in general to look past the “one flaw” that every person… Read more »

Try different options
June 24, 2018 12:35 am

Try maybe to send him to the mir in yerusalem they have real ahavas Israel they except everyone who has a desire to learn your son might have a big Aliyah their they have the best magidei Shiurim and mashpiyim he’ll love it there

Solution
June 24, 2018 12:23 am

Make a new shuir daled in ch! All the students that got rejected from shuir daled should email his parent and together make a new school.

Blessing in Disguise
June 24, 2018 12:18 am

They’re telling you we don’t care. It’s sad and unfortunate, but he’s better off in with a hanholoh that will care. Don’t give up!

Serious question-- would greatly appreciate if someone could respond
June 24, 2018 12:15 am

Is Chovevei dorm a good place– have heard mixed reviews… would people recommend it for an out of town bachur (yeshiva ktana) who is looking to learn in the Yeshiva itself (which I know is phenomenal for in-towners…) anyone know anything about this?
A concerned parent

CHABAD GIRL
June 24, 2018 12:05 am

the chabad yeshiva system is so broken. Is it taking young adults and teenagers and breaking each one of them down . If Lubavitch is so into ecceptance and loving every type of Jew then why are they making us feel like we aren’t good enough for them and tearing us apart like animals. A menahelet of a seminary in Israel personally calls students and rips into them and tells them their faults and how “terrible” they are. The Lubavitch system is ruining us. The non chabad schools are more excepting and will love you for the person that your… Read more »

To number 10
June 24, 2018 12:02 am

The difference between then and now is than it wasn’t the norm that everyone had to go to Yeshiva otherwise he’d be considered a failure/dropout therefore if you went you were from the elite, the others were simple chassidim who were probably working.

However nowaday we created this norm where everyone must go even if it’s really not the best thing for the kid, otherwise he is considered a total disaster, if this is the reality then the same system which created that must atleast work with the bochurim who aren’t as elite as well.

A bubbie whose grandson was rejected
June 23, 2018 11:40 pm

At the end of the day, there is a din and a daayan. The aibishter bleibt nisht a baal chov. I am not jealous of the Hanholos that will have to answer after 120 as to why they destroyed so many kids and their families.

Curious
June 23, 2018 11:39 pm

According to this article, when is it okay to reject a bachur from your yeshiva?

#7 is right
June 23, 2018 11:34 pm

One of my friend’s chabad daughters couldnt get into chabad seminary and ended up in a litvishe seminary and married a litvish bochur.

Menahel Responds
June 23, 2018 11:24 pm

Dear Parent, You describe your son as spirituality sick and in need of medical attention. My yeshiva is like a spiritual restaurant which provides spiritual nutrition to hungry bochurim. My yeshiva is also like a spiritual gym where bochurim get spiritual workouts, get in spiritual shape, build spiritual strength. My yeshiva is not a hospital. If your son needs spiritual medical treatment, find a hospital. Don’t complain that the spiritual restaurant or gym doesn’t provide medical treatment. Take your spiritually ill son to a hospital.

hatzlaha
June 23, 2018 11:23 pm

i would say we as parents dont have a second choice for students who not fitting in the elite ( elite chabad bohrim by being smart , farbrengen etc and by protection as well ) …. so what we need is a new establishment that pairs with all Chabad education , same bohrim from Elite institution have cross classes with all other bohrim as well ( u know we have online classes for all ) but also have new teachers and even college classes as well .
maybe you can start cater new yeshiva for all ?

#18!!!
June 23, 2018 11:21 pm

Well said. We parents MUST be the fearless advocates for our children. You must do your best to find a yeshivs that really cares for you son and will build him up. I’ve had children destroyed by ” mainstream ‘ top’ and callous schools and nurtured and built up by sometimes less known brilliant and caring mchanchim in less big name places. Go for the real content.

Wondering
June 23, 2018 10:57 pm

Not sure what you’re complaining about, some Yeshivas do service people that need a “doctor”, but some Yeshivas don’t do that, they are made to serve the people that are healthy and they help them to continue to be healthy

Hatzlacha
June 23, 2018 10:56 pm

Going along with your analogy of a visit to the Dr , I ask : would you actually even want to be seen by a Dr that didn’t seem to want to help you? Wouldn’t you find another Dr? There are many other yeshivos out there that may be more suitable for your son. Hashem is guiding you elsewhere and you might be pleasantly surprised .

Unfortunatly Both Are Right.
June 23, 2018 10:49 pm

The parents are right: that a yeshiva can not consist of Just Forcing the bochrim to wear the (so called) uniform to dress them up different from what they really are, and Relatively Not investing in them any thing to make them For Real Chassidishe Bochurim Beruchniyus, And Real Mentchen Begashmius, and Just Taking Credit For What Someone Else accomplished with these Bochrim – While they invested relatively nothing. At the same time the parent have to understand, that if you will bring up you children in a way to be modern learned Bochrim to look like Young Israel Style… Read more »

To 21
June 23, 2018 10:37 pm

I think you just fixed lubavitch

I dont get it
June 23, 2018 10:34 pm

do these yeshivas have an unlimited amount of space?
Can they accept anyone who wants to be there? Or are they limited in space and therefore need to choose based on who they think will be a goood fit for their yeshiva? Cuz if space is unlimited then yes accept all bochurim. But if there is a limited amount of space I’m not so sure why you think your son is more important than the next bochur over who will be rejected if your son is accepted due to lack of space

Mesiftas are scary places
June 23, 2018 10:31 pm

They arent equipped to handle basic guidance problems it seems like they want expressionless bochrim roaming around with hats on. The system fails most of its students. So many good bochrim dont have the desire to learn. So many bochrim just cant connect to the hanholas The problem is not simple to fix So many sichos and so many mamarim that are flowing with lifes answers and secrets. Yet the realty is that we are losing the majority of our youth to colleges Is anyone shocked to see the tznius levels we sunk to? How about the mixed gyms with… Read more »

A compassionate Strategy? Or lazy strategy?
June 23, 2018 10:28 pm

Questions that should alarm the public. Does the Yeshiva only reject destructive Bochurim, or Just reject any Bochur that doesn’t fit their mold? Does the Yeshiva have a plan and a quota of non chassidishe Bochurim or just reject everyone, to make life easier for them. Does the Yeshiva actually have space but rejects a Bochur because they’d rather wait and save the space with the hopes that perhaps they can get an elite Bochur to apply instead? Does the Yeshiva try to get elite Bochurim because they feel it will help the Yeshiva? Or BC they’re too lazy to… Read more »

Why is there only 2 yeshivos???
June 23, 2018 10:22 pm

Why can’t every yeshiva have their own shiur daled??? Why does everyone have to pile in to a yeshiva of 200 people (if they get accepted) with absolutely no personal attention?? Its time for yeshivos like LA, toronto, YG, New haven etc, to make a FULL on shiur daled!!! Toras emes in yerushalayim is a great example, they have their OWN shiur daled and a very fantastic one!

¢$$$$
June 23, 2018 10:22 pm

just pay them full tuition and they will take you with four hands

Doctor?!
June 23, 2018 10:15 pm

I’m not sure why you chose to give the analogy of a doctor who’s job is literally only to heal people
Who says the job of yeshiva is literally just for ” fry bochrim”?

Toras emes is the way to go
June 23, 2018 10:08 pm

Yeshiva toras emes in yerushalayim is definitely the place to go for shiur daled!!!

Finally
June 23, 2018 10:07 pm

I’ve waited so long for someone to finally address this. I don’t know who this bochur is, and I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the word problem solvers, I just wanna day one thing. It’s long overdue that people start nudging the board of OT to look what’s going g on in their system. I can’t write names because then this won’t be posted, but it’s such a disgrace!! They decide who to accept, how to deal with each one, deny shljchus to people that they don’t like etc. it’s really gotten out of hand and I wait for the… Read more »

To 23
June 23, 2018 10:05 pm

You make a good point, but certainly you can be more tactful while doing so.
You speak to a parent who is suffering, and the repulsive, condescending tone of your comment makes it difficult to accept the point you are making.
As Chassidim, feeling for another is #1. Even before a positive attitude towards yeshiva.

Options
June 23, 2018 10:05 pm

Why fight to better a system that is broken and rejects its own students?! Let your son move onto another system, where I am sure he will be successful in. I left yeshiva before shuir Dalet, and moved on to other systems where I ended up excelling and have accomplished a lot. Whereas I look at other peers who have completed shuir dalet and went onto doing Simcha (finishing the system) which don’t have much more frumkiet or feeling of chassiduskiet, with a lack of ambition to go make a life for themselves. It’s very virtuous that you as a… Read more »

X shiur daled bochur.
June 23, 2018 10:03 pm

As I just finished shiur daled ot, I can officially say that it’s the most dysfunctional year I had in all six of my yeshiva years. And probably sixty percent of the grade will agree that more or less it’s the same in there case. The reason being: there is no one – literally no one – to talk to in hanhalah if your having any issue in avoidas hashem. Not the mashgiach, not the mashpim, no one. in essence it’s a university where noone cares about the individual student, it’s a factory where if the “cookie” is a little… Read more »

solution
June 23, 2018 10:02 pm

send him to touro college and let him get a degree and when yeshivas come to get money from him he will show them.

they should open more schools like lakewood and other places. people must know that we need our young generation to stay here in crown heights and help our own people . going on shelluchot is a myth start working and make money.

Hanholas dont believe that the rebbe is chai vkayom
June 23, 2018 10:01 pm

My son due to rejection “because he will be too much work” will go to a local public school

Give up Shluchos!!!
June 23, 2018 10:00 pm

BH. That’s right. I am a BT for over 20+ years. Grew up in the middle west and move to Crown Heights to meet my bride. Got married to a BT and our son has been rejected from three Mesivtas because, according to the form letters, Our son who is a. A good boy b. Has a good head c. It is not “Chassidisher enough.” It is time to stop putting our people in the field doing “out reach” and start doing “in reach.” I know that in other Chassidisher kehillahs, All the boys are advanced. PERIOD Paragraph. Who are… Read more »

Omg I agree!!!!!!
June 23, 2018 9:58 pm

The feeling of rejection doesn’t make you want to you want to get yourself up and grow! Is school created for only perfect kids?!?! I am a high school girl and rejected to schools

New Hanhala
June 23, 2018 9:53 pm

This article brings to mind what has just occurred in another yeshiva. Since the Yeshiva dared to accept also average Bochurim, not only the super Chasidish, the Hanhala was fired and replaced with new Menhalim that will not ‘shame’ the Yeshiva with such a gross error. I suppose throwing those average Bochurim into the street isnt as terrible as having a good name. Not! By default this makes the whole thing not Chasidish. As far as I understand, and I might be wrong, Chasidus teaches to help others, even ,dare I say, lower than oneself.

Spot on
June 23, 2018 9:51 pm

This article is 1,000% correct. And then we want to know why our children are falling through the cracks. They are not. WE are shoving them there. By rejecting them for wanting to be in the right places, but NEVER being good enough why shouldn’t they go where they are welcomed with open arms? To the streets!! Until we start accepting our own kids for being genuinely good kids and accepting them into our own Yeshivas, not one institution has the right to pride themselves on being “one of the best in Lubavitch”. They are ruining our children. The analogy… Read more »

These Mashpiim
June 23, 2018 9:48 pm

Never got the Rebbe’s message anyway. There’s very little they will be able to give your son, since they themselves have missed the point for literally decades. The yeshivos in EY are much stronger in every aspect. My wife’s younger brother went through similar struggles and when he went out to learn in Toras Emes he completely transformed. He went to they yeshiva and he learned well and he realized that he’s very capable and the yeshivos in CH were backwards. I am very close with him and have seen the change from just being in a happy place with… Read more »

To number 6
June 23, 2018 9:47 pm

Right on my friend

Agree.
June 23, 2018 9:43 pm

Ridiculous that the schools get away with this attitude. Hashem sees all. It baffles me that people in Hanhola don’t realize that everything comes full circle and there are consequences for all of our actions. On another note, hopefully more schools can be created to fill a need for regular bochurim.

Really
June 23, 2018 9:43 pm

When my bank denied me for a loan I want another bank. After the 5th bank denied me I started fixing my problems.

Get into a cubical
June 23, 2018 9:40 pm

He should get a job

Thank You
June 23, 2018 9:37 pm

For speaking up

Broken system
June 23, 2018 9:25 pm

I have been burnt by the system with my two teenage boys From my experience most of the Yeshivas have the same Honholo for many years and the are living iin a bubble with today’s challenging youth either they are clueless of the challenges or chose to remain oblivious so many of our children are going off the derech the insensitivity and the things that are said from honholo to bochrim are just mind boggling I unfortunately don’t have faith in our educational system may Hashem and the rebbe help us there is definitely blood on certains honholos hands due… Read more »

To Rabbi Shochet
June 23, 2018 9:22 pm

I’m not going to excuse the yeshivos for their elitist behavior, but Tomchei Temimim was originally established only for elite bochurim. That is the history of Tomchei Temimim.

To number 21
June 23, 2018 9:20 pm

I can see you didnt have a good year when you went on Shlichus. I personally had a great year on Shlichus that changed my life!!! I would never be on Shlichus now if not for that year.
Unfortunately I can read that Shlichus values are not important to you and I’m sorry about that!

Dear writer.
June 23, 2018 9:16 pm

I’m a parent too, my son is actually going to shiur daled Ohlei Torah next year. I feel like you missed a very important point I your article, my son is bh a good bochur a bochur who worked hard in yeshiva, who learned, who davend, who farbrengen. And now he’s going to a totally different zal a totally different type of yeshiva one with lots of types of bochrim lots of different directions etc. I think THE LEAST the hanahla can do is reject the bochrim who they feel that will ruin my sons year, (obviously not only my… Read more »

To 1
June 23, 2018 9:14 pm

Rabbi blau is a very underestimated individual i would like to add rabbi sternberg rabbi tzukernick etc.
To the father

The yeshivas that dont eccept these buchrim that dont “fit” should know anc be aware of a few things

A 19 year old bochur has other choices and Unfourtnatly some make not good choices
As a result
They are not happy they happen to be broken
And then they lift there head and pray very hard
And i am 100% sure that the אובערשטער answers there prayers

Time to clear up the "Bochur Shlichus" myth
June 23, 2018 8:09 pm

There is no reason to be broken-hearted. There are many alternatives to Oholei Torah Shiur Daled which give a strong grounding for the future. The only reason bochurim feel they need OT, is because that is their path to “Shlichus” in yeshiva. In and of itself the Yeshiva does not offer anything earth-shattering that they will need later on in life. Just the one year of shluchus that follows Shiur daled. In truth, where you go on Shlichus as a bochur makes no difference in life – by the time a bochur will get married, it will not make a… Read more »

well
June 23, 2018 7:37 pm

respect for putting your name!

Have to say...
June 23, 2018 6:57 pm

That’s all very nice, and true that sometimes yeshivos don’t do a proper research about a bochur and make mistakes but if you have a bochur that by “not being chassidish” will affect the atmosphere of the yeshiva and the other bochrim(which happens very often ) he has no right to be in the yeshiva..

Reality Check
June 23, 2018 6:18 pm

As readers, we don’t know the full story and any genuine reasons that would make their decision fair, but your story is not unusual. Nowadays, it seems that everyone wants to have an “Elite Yeshiva” for “top bochurim”. So, where are the “average boys” supposed to go? We seem to get hung up on white shirts, top buttons, secular music, etc etc and forget that these are real kids with a fairly typical exposure to, and attitude towards, the wider world. If anything, these are the perfect students to accept. With patience and “TLC” (to use your words) these boys… Read more »

It's no better in elementary
June 23, 2018 3:28 pm

These prehistoric, out-of-touch “educators” should have been put out to pasture decades ago. Our story is also one of rejection, but for different, even more insidious reasons. Oholei Torah rejected our son because ULY put pressure on them not to accept him – not because he was “no good” but because we had pulled him out of ULY due to the physical abuse his brother experienced. And they wanted him back! We found that out years later when the Principal of ULY apologized to my son. I will never forgive either principal for colluding to manipulate us at the expense… Read more »

A Hotel for Chassidish bochurim
June 23, 2018 12:24 pm

When I was in yeshiva, a couple of my friends from the yeshiva in Postville, used to say that Yeshiva’s were essentially trying to be a a hotel for chassidish bochurim. I agree with you, that a good hanhola is one that is able to work with all bochurim and maybe we should re-evaluate who yeshivos hire-as they only hire the metzuyanim, maybe leading to this cycle?

AGREE!!!
June 23, 2018 10:05 am

Your strongest point is that he’s a kid that WANTS to be in the Yeshivah system and that’s a huge thing these days, that in itself shows a lot about him! Can’t agree more – the system needs to change, but will it? And how long will it take and how many will be lose till that happens- outrages!

seeking to understand
June 23, 2018 9:55 am

Exactly what point are you trying to make? On the one hand, it seems like you’re ripping into the hanhala of Morristown and Oholei Torah for not accepting your son, despite him not being a chassidishe bochur. However, you go on to state that they arent really at fault, operating as they are in a broken system…

Aussie boy
June 23, 2018 9:38 am

You’re not entirely correct, they get a lot of applicants and they can accept the ones they feel they can help the most. Their job isn’t to save the world.

Hanholos please listen, parents don't despair...
June 23, 2018 8:15 am

We too as parents have been through a similar heart wrenching experience with our son but B”H he was able to find himself a job helping a Shliach and he is enjoying tremendous hatzlachah which has had a wonderful effect on his self-confidence. To all Yeshivah hanholos, please pay attention to the words of this article and perhaps some serious soul searching and training for your staff will prevent such stories from being repeated and all parents who are going through such challenges with your children, please don’t despair, as be”H they will find their way and come good!

Agreed
June 23, 2018 6:20 am

When did we become elite? Loosen up and do your job, educate the people who need it!!

tomchei tmimmim of old
June 23, 2018 4:40 am

when the institution of tomche tmimim was founded only the elite bochrim were accepted. if you didn’t know most of shas you wouldn’t be considered.
if theres only room for the elite why would they accept your son?
I hope he finds a place for yeshiva but I don’t think its a problem in the system

It will all work out for the best
June 23, 2018 3:28 am

My son and a friend’s son were the ONLY ones rejected for a certain Yeshiva. NO reason in particular but we knew that both boys had had a disagreement with the father of the Rosh Yeshiva. Both boys went elsewhere, both did brilliantly ( my own son told me how happy he was with his learning) both boys got excellent smicha and both boys married into lovely families. Everyone is where they are meant to be.
Yes, at the time both families were angry but we both realise now how it was for the best.

Leadership
June 22, 2018 10:54 pm

Leadership, leadership
Who has that responsibility?

also seminarys.
June 22, 2018 8:12 pm

The same thing applies to seminary with girls. Many girls dont get into seminary. Many girls end up going to not chabad seminaries because they treat the girls much better and actually care

Oh boy
June 22, 2018 8:03 pm

Comment storm incoming.

True point but..
June 22, 2018 7:57 pm

To add on to your mashal. Suppose you have heart issues and you show up to a podiatrist to service you, they would tell you to go to a DR that specializes in your area of need.
Same with yeshiva – they cater to different types of bochurim.
If your son needs a more relaxed, open minded chinuch then a rigid yeshiva would not be a good fit for either of you

shiur bais bochur
June 22, 2018 7:51 pm

I know the bochur. good guy all around. If he was rejected, I am doomed.

Chanoch Lanaar Al Pi Darko
June 22, 2018 7:48 pm

The one thing you didn’t say, is what your son actually wants… Is yeshiva actually the right place for him to be? Maybe the answer is to stop forcing everyone to fit into a box and spend the formative years of their life in what amounts to a prison for many bachurim…

A fellow bochur
June 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Well written and the point is quiet clear.
However. in response to your analogy, if a patient has a contagious desease or needs a specialist they would be required to segregat him to a separate ward which specializes in his Field.
That being said maybe your son needs to be in a different ward and go to another Dr. This is not to say he doesn’t belong in the yshiva system but possibly not in that particular yeshiva.

Chovevei Torah
June 22, 2018 7:32 pm

Speak to Rabbi Blau! Incredible hanhola that sincerely cares and puts themselves out for their bochurim! I’m a parent who has sent both my sons there with phenomenal results!!! Hatzlacha! Don’t forget Yagayti umetzasi!!!!

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