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Saturday, 16 Av, 5779
  |  August 17, 2019
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    Oholei Torah Selling Off a Mikvah

    Rabbis in East Flatbush are dismayed by Oholei Torah breaking a promise and selling off a Mikvah the Rebbe instructed to keep open. Full Story

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    Keep it open!
    Guest
    Keep it open!

    My kids, cramped in their Crown Heights apartment due to the huge bracha of children KA”H, are looking for a house in East Flatbush where they can afford to live. So many young couples are looking to move there, and that community will only grow until Moshiach comes, let it be now. Maybe there’s a Jimmy Gurary who can bail out this mikvah?

    Just wondering
    Guest
    Just wondering

    Who is part of this rabbinical board?

    thriving community?
    Guest
    thriving community?

    then go and buy it…..
    Why should it stay a burden on OT.

    Missing
    Guest
    Missing

    The article is not too clear and missing details. Who is the legal owner? Who is this rabbinical board? Etc.

    ooof
    Guest
    ooof

    I hope they can make this work.

    What a disgrace
    Guest
    What a disgrace

    Shame on the board of directors of Oholei Torah

    Where is Rabbi Rosenfeld Sh’y to stand up to this travesty?

    I’ve personally used this Mikvah

    Its a real shame that they would do this against the mesiras nefesh that Reb Michoel z’l fought to keep this community going.

    Sad day in Oholei Torah history

    Levy
    Guest
    Levy

    Eagerly awaiting O.T’s response!

    Solution
    Guest
    Solution

    If there are so many people in East Flatboush why they don’t buy it at a good price and Shalom al Israel

    how
    Guest
    how

    so you know this is the house of the Mikva I don’t see an address or picture.

    To 8
    Guest
    To 8

    Buy it from whom?
    The east Flatbush Rabbis are not selling it.
    It is being robbed by a group of people.

    Wow
    Guest
    Wow

    So all the years Reb Michel was fighting to keep the shul and other Jewish places in Jewish hands is out the window?

    What’s going on?

    Selling a mikveh?
    Guest
    Selling a mikveh?

    Why would the Board of Ohelei Torah sell a mikveh. Would love to hear their response. Isn’t one of the board members in the habit of building mikvehs not selling them.

    Market Valuation Was $1.5 Million
    Guest
    Market Valuation Was $1.5 Million

    “Buyer Got the deal of a lifetime ”
    Did OT Have an advisory board?
    Or did someone act alone??

    There is a boss
    Guest
    There is a boss

    Please post the address so we can find out how oholei Torah became the ‘owner’ of a mikva

    It is not Oholei Torah's to sell
    Guest
    It is not Oholei Torah's to sell

    it would make sense if they owned the building for someone to purchase, but this is not their building to sell.

    Buy the Mikvah from them
    Guest
    Buy the Mikvah from them

    I am sure OT has been shelling out lots and lots of money for this property over the years !!!!
    P.s. who are East Flatbush Rabbis ? Chabad?

    Why the diversion questions?
    Guest
    Why the diversion questions?

    This is fairly simple: Rabbi Bukiet A”H gave his heart and soul to raise the money to keep this mikvah open. The neighborhood changed and Rabbi Bukiet passed away, so the Mikva fell into disrepair. Now the area is on the rebound and there is a golden opportunity to raise money and rebuild this Mikvah. Somehow, Oholei Torah gained ownership of the Mikvah and instead of allowing people in the area try to raise funds to restore it, they are quietly trying to sell it to developers. And no, there is no reason that people in the area should pay… Read more »

    Now you listen to the Rebbe
    Guest
    Now you listen to the Rebbe

    Oh all of a sudden people wake up to what the Rebbe said?!!I still don’t see anyone talking about moshiach..the Rebbes legacy and last and longest project and yet it is swept under the carpet like moshiach is a dirty word!!he is probably up there crying in pain how his chasidim have let him down and how the ‘heads’of Chabad treat it like a business..my heart breaks for the Rebbe.collive take courage and do something to turn the tide

    It not ot property
    Guest
    It not ot property

    Let it remain a Mikvah

    Buy it?!!
    Guest
    Buy it?!!

    How do you buy a bulding that belongs to you??
    It NEVER belonged to Oholei Torah, reb Michael went on me soars nefesh to keep the mikvah open for the community, now to steal it from the community because of OT connection to r’ michiel?! What a disgrace! Reb Michael is turning over in his grave.

    Reb Moshe Teleshevsky
    Guest
    Reb Moshe Teleshevsky

    I remember as a Bochur in Oholei Torah, Reb Moshe would pick me up and a number of people in the community and drive us to the Shule in East Flatbush, so Reb Michoel would have a Minyan.

    Agree with number 8
    Guest
    Agree with number 8

    Let the community in East Flatbush (along with those advocating for the mikvah to remain open) to band togther to purchase the building from Oholei Torah. Simple solution.

    Also just wondering
    Guest
    Also just wondering

    How did the Mikvah become the property of Oholei Torah? Did they buy it? If yes, when ? From whom? For how much? I think the answer to these questions will shed light on the solution to this issue.

    to 3# and 8#
    Guest
    to 3# and 8#

    Why should they buy something that rightfully belongs to them? And why should OT be selling something that they don’t have a right to sell? At most OT can ask for the money ithat they may have put into the building to keep it running. But that would be no more then 50,000 dollars. BTW you may be aware (though by such ignorant comments one never knows), but money does not grow on trees. These are young couples who have just eked out a down payment and a mortgage, they are not flowing with money. and to the question “Why… Read more »

    meir ronnes a"h
    Guest
    meir ronnes a"h

    meir ronnes would shlep there to use the mikvah almost every day just to keep it open

    Missing
    Guest
    Missing

    You are right. There is a lot missing to this story. The legal owner is oholei torah. The rabbinical board transferred it to Oholei Torah.. Most of the rabbinical board are no longer alive . So if someone feels strongly that this building should be a mikve, they are welcome to buy it from Oholei Torah. If the so called rabbinical board feel they need a mikve, where were they all these years when the building fell apart and dilapidated. Why did they wake up now when they heard it was for sale? Why did they sell the shul immediately… Read more »

    buy what??????????????
    Guest
    buy what??????????????

    what do you mean buy it ??????????????????????
    from whom o.t. dose not own it they just took it………….
    o.t. just give it back and walk away let those who live there now take over

    OT doesn't own it
    Guest
    OT doesn't own it

    If you know any laws a religious organization can’t give away the property to another one. The Mikvah could never have been given away to Oholei Torah that makes it theirs to sell. There was some illegal shtick that was done to transfer ownership to OT’s name.

    So OT offers to maintain it?!
    Guest
    So OT offers to maintain it?!

    Now OT is selling it!

    Can I offer to maintain OT’s schools for a few years than sell all it’s assets?!

    Yes, OT owns the place
    Guest
    Yes, OT owns the place

    It was sold to them by this very same “Rabbinical Board of East Flatbush.” Documents to that effect are a matter of public record. So yes, legally OT has the right to sell it. If the RBoEF doesn’t like it, there’s nothing preventing them from making an offer.

    To number 26
    Guest
    To number 26

    You are absolutely right. The shul should not have been sold either. It was the first Lubavitcher Yeshivah in America.
    But that wrong doesnt make what Oholei Torah is trying to d right.
    I personally know people who donated funds to that Mikvah. They did not donate the money to Oholei Torah.
    And now there is a growing community there that needs it and wants it.
    Face up to it. It is wrong and can still be stopped.

    Ridiculous
    Guest
    Ridiculous

    Let o.t. sell it to new buyer and hopefully a group of 100 families refurbish it

    WHERE ARE THE REBBES CHASSIDUM?!
    Guest
    WHERE ARE THE REBBES CHASSIDUM?!

    It’s ironic how our rebbe sold 770 in order to finish building the crown heights Mikvah, and the board of Oholei Torah has the chutzpah to sell the mikvah that the Jews and community of East Flatbush need!

    A concerned chassid

    East Flatbush is growing, we must keep the mikva
    Guest
    East Flatbush is growing, we must keep the mikva

    See this link: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=10HRCOqJWn4iyX3jKKeCaZgjz-vc&ll=40.65140162031725%2C-73.92511212059645&z=16

    Important note: This list is not complete! There are more families and it keeps growing.

    Lets try and hold on to a mikva that WILL be needed in the future!

    Transfer details
    Guest
    Transfer details

    The property was transferred in 2005 by Mendel Lerman from the Rabbinical Board of East Flatbush to Oholei Tora
    As you can see at this link:
    https://a836-acris.nyc.gov/DS/DocumentSearch/DocumentImageView?doc_id=2005082400300001

    to # 26
    Guest
    to # 26

    1, Can you prove that OT ownership is legal?
    2,Again can you explain, why should the community pay for something that was built for them?
    3. they were not there all the years, because the community was in decline, one can no longer say the same thing.
    4. what does the shul have to do with the mikva?

    To 14
    Guest
    To 14

    The address is:
    340 E. 52nd Street
    Brooklyn NY 11203

    Owner
    Guest
    Owner

    According to https://streeteasy.com/building/340-east-52-street-brooklyn#tab_building_detail=2 the legal owner is “Educational institute” which is OT

    to #35
    Guest
    to #35

    So let assume for arguments sake that this is truly a legal sale (remember about the anshei lubavitch sale in borough park and how legal that one was).

    what we have here is that OT bought a building that was built by rabbi bukiet for 47 dollars (to record the sale), and they now want to sell it for hundreds of thousands of dollars to people who want to use it for a mikva!!

    You’re missing the point...
    Guest
    You’re missing the point...

    The issue is not that OT or any group is selling a Mikva. I’m sure one is allowed to do that. The issue is, how do you sell a Mikva that people risked their lives for, and offer it for sale to build a 5,000 s/f house?!?!
    PS – Has OT offered to sell the property to any current resident in this new community BEFORE offering for sale to a residential investor/user?

    Lots of questions…. very few answers. Look forward to a response from OT BOD

    Must step in and help!
    Guest
    Must step in and help!

    It shouldn’t be sold. I have no money to help but i think it is important for those of the community who can buy it should. shame on those who would let this mikveh go. They should have mesiras nefesh to protect it. I think chazal say something about putting this even before learning with children or something like that.

    mikva
    Guest
    mikva

    Honestly, I think this decision needs to be analyzed. OT is aware that this area is coming alive, with many young yingerleit buying houses in this area, creating a beautiful community expanding Crown Heights. They don’t have a mikva in that area.
    Do you think the Rebbe will approve of closing a mikva. The Rebbe so much supported strengthening communities in Crown Heights and here we are closing a Mikva and not strengthening a community.
    I realize the Mikva is in disrepair, but then we need to raise the money to rebuild, not tear it down.
    Tuvia Tatik

    Reb Michoel's House
    Guest
    Reb Michoel's House

    To #21 Yes when my grandfather would go every day to pick up Reb Michoel on the way to his Shul (that he was the Shamash of – COL please post the original story of how R’ Michoel fought against the rov of that shul not to sell it ch”v to an ch urch for his retirement, and won) as they were both owned by reb michoel which made it part of oholei torah property. Please oholei Torah – make us proud of you having made the right choice- sell it to the people who want to keep it open… Read more »

    Agree with 8
    Guest
    Agree with 8

    Legally ownership is from OT
    Make urgent an online campaign to buy it and OT happy EF happy ,donors happy to contribute to a mikveh

    36 check your facts
    Guest
    36 check your facts

    You question the legality if the transfer? Check the document, it was done by a professional lawyer who would not risk his reputation o a fraudulent transaction. Besides it was insured by a title company who would be at risk of a big financial loss if they covered this transaction and it turned out to be a fraud.. And to all those compaining about losing a mikve, this mikve has fallen apart years ago and is no longer a mikve. Since then, squatters have moved in and destroyed the mikve. It was Oholei torah who went through the expense of… Read more »

    Destroyed from within
    Guest
    Destroyed from within

    And we cant even blame litvish or satmars on this one as is always so comfortable for us to do.

    East Flatbush
    Guest
    East Flatbush

    East Flatbush is now a thriving community. There is a Chabad Minyan every Shabbos in the Young Israel on E 89 Street , between Ralph and Ave A. Please try join so the minyan will remain. Thank you for those who walk every Friday Night and Shabbos day to keep the minyan alive.
    Thank you to the Sorkin Family that have the Zchus to arrange it weekly.

    $200
    Guest
    $200

    Oholei Torah should have the right to return it to the East Flatbush Community for $200, the cost they incurred for acquiring the mikvah.

    They shouldn’t have rights to the sale of the Mikvah, they didn’t even buy it!

    Din Torah
    Guest
    Din Torah

    There are Many stories where the Rebbe went out of his way to help save Mikvahs they were underutilised.

    I am sure that if the Yidden go to a Din Torah with OT they will have a favourable outcome.

    All interested parties should agree to settle the matter in a Din Torah.

    OT it's time you start "thinking Breit"
    Guest
    OT it's time you start "thinking Breit"

    Just a couple of months ago we all remember OT’s 2 million+ campaign to “think breit” you reached out and pleaded to every member of the community to help you “think breit” in purchasing another building. Why don’t you practice what you preach? Look into the future a little bit there are many families who live around this Mikva. Where are their wives supposed to go to Mikva on a Friday night??!! After the community is there for you in your “think breit” campaign why do you have to turn around and snub them by selling this mikva? Did you… Read more »

    a few points
    Guest
    a few points

    #47 East Flatbush is now a thriving community. “AND JOIN THE MINYAN TO KEEP IT GOING ” if the comm is thriving why dont you have a minyan if the mikva is broken ,and out of service , where has everyone been going these past years … all the campaigners can help upgrade the usable mikva that is current mesiras nefesh of those “yiddin ” they are in lichtigen gan eden and that is ultimately the schar .. physical structures are not eternal mikva before chinuch is when there are no options the mikva building is now choshech and will… Read more »

    to 45
    Guest
    to 45

    1. In regards to the legality of the transfer: I refer you to the ongoing litigation on the Anshei Lubavitch sale in borough park. Just because you have a professional lawyer of insurance company and even have the AG sign off on the transfer, it does not mean that it can’t/won’t be challenged down the line. 2. in regards to OT dealing with squatters and the like: Yes it is pretty sensible to ask the community to pay for the money it cost for that, but thats it, not a penny more. The second OT ask for more, then they… Read more »

    To 52
    Guest
    To 52

    Agree
    This must be a sick joke.
    East flatbush now has the beginning of a new thriving community and as such needs a Mikvah. Let OT make money someplace else.

    Ironic - Oholei Torah cites US Law
    Guest
    Ironic - Oholei Torah cites US Law

    Regardless of whether the transfer was officially legal or not – I find it interesting that OT is citing civil Law to defend its actions. How much civil law is taught at OT? Or civil law prep? Or even English comprehension? When there’s a conversation over, uhm, anything (educational positions to an eiruv to women’s rights, as examples), how much of our great US Constitutional, statuatory or common Law is advocated at Oholei Torah? Little to none. To me, this is hypocrisy at its roots. I grew up Lubavitch, and am no longer frum at all. I only know of… Read more »

    Response to #54
    Guest
    Response to #54

    In response to #54…Although it is is painful to witness, or be on the receiving end of the failings, weaknesses, hypocrisy etc. of individual people in the community and/or community institutions, what has this to do with your own personal commitment and responsibility to Hashem and Judaism? If your faith and commitment, your blueprint for how you will conduct yourself as a jew is based on the example of humans, you will always be disappointed and disillusioned. You know what Hashem requires of YOU, so do it and stop complaining about what Hashem’s other children are not doing. It is… Read more »

    Torah is Emes
    Guest
    Torah is Emes

    Don’t use the weaknesses you c in others as reasons for your escape from Toras Emes-Toras Chaim. You want Emes? Just practice Torah and Mitzvos and don’t look over your shoulders. Be real, be Emes, be happy and be rich by practicing Torah and Mitzvos. Nothing could be more truthful than being devoted to Hashem, His Torah and His Mitzvos.

    Responses to #55 and #56
    Guest
    Responses to #55 and #56

    You guys may be right, and nonetheless corruption/hypocrisy/bad midos in leadership will lead members astray. Just the way it is..

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