ב"ה
Sunday, 21 Tishri, 5780
  |  October 20, 2019

NY To Probe 39 Brooklyn Yeshivas

39 Chassidic schools in Brooklyn are being accused of "violating state law" for not teaching students adequate English and math. Full Story

Crown Heat

Next Story »

Oy! Here Comes Visiting Day

66
Opinions and Comments

To keep track of your comments, follow a conversation or flag a comment Login
avatar
  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Ch resident
Guest
Ch resident

If the government wants to control what private schools do and teach … Then i strongly feel we should get some kind of relief since our real estate taxes are used for public education … I have no doubt the private schools get monies and help from the government though not as much as they should … Imagine all jewish schools decide after the summer to knock of the D.O.E. To register our children ?? … Number 1 they would not have the space for the jewish children and the non jewish private schools that may join and participate with… Read more »

The question is....
Guest
The question is....

Are the schools being upfront about their policies? Are they claiming to teach secular studies and receive the benefits thereof, but in reality are not? That could present a problem…

SAD
Guest
SAD

Younger kids should have some English studies.
But yeshiva students should Not.
I AM NOT SAYING WE have to LEARN IT
BUT WE SHOULD LEARN A little
Not A TON
WE have to keep out of trouble
WE HAVE TO BE A JEW
DON’T THEY KNOW THAT

Why the Quotes?
Guest
Why the Quotes?

Why is “violating state law” in quotes? The fact is, that these Yeshivas are violating state law. And they are not providing a “subpar” education; they are providing none at all, ultimately leading to the next generation of uneducated citizens that the state will have to subsidized with welfare costing taxpayer millions of dollars. What a shame.

Masira
Guest
Masira

Putting emotions and opinions aside…Why is this not Masira?

To #4
Guest
To #4

Are you a even a lawyer? Do you Specialize in “State Law for Schools”?

To #4
Guest
To #4

Sorry, your thinking is flawed. How come there are so many African American and white skinned non-jews on welfare etc? They were supposed to be immune to needing state funded medical and food assistance since they attended public school. And how come many more of them than us commit crimes and/ or end up in jail, a definite cost liability for the state? Is that because of the superior education in public schools?

Sign of the Times
Guest
Sign of the Times

I see comments strongly agreeing with this latest decree – and I can’t argue with it – after all they’re concerned with children’s education. They also say they’re concerned about babies and tried to ban the bris. They say that someone did a crime so should spend a longer term in prison than anyone in the history of the US for the same crime. Can’t argue with any of it. It’s all legal. Thing is, it’s beginning to smell a little off. The pressure is closing in people. You may not need to move to Israel yet but be aware.

to number 7
Guest
to number 7

Nothing flawed with my thinking. The African Americans and Whites you speak of generally do not graduate from school, only bolstering my argument. Interesting to see that you resort to comparing yourself to African Americans only when it suits you. A more apt comparison would be to educated Jews. Seeing as you share the same DNA, history, and culture, tell me oh wise one: how many educated Reform Jews are on Food Stamps?

Right; that’s what I thought.

Education matters.

NKVD still exists.
Guest
NKVD still exists.

Yaffed is obviously moisrim & redofim.

If the gov’t can control curriculum, let them pay our tuition.

secular subjects
Guest
secular subjects

English-all students need is basic reading and writing. Spell check can be done by computer and English literature is shtus. Math-maybe measuring things, everything else can be done by calculator. Science-some courses teach things like evolution. These courses can be taught in Torah classes,like Torah measurements compared to modern. Biology through various dinim, such as taharas hamishpocha or kashrus, chemistry through kashrus, etc The problem is that people think the purpose of an education is to get a career- not to learn how to be a decent, G-d fearing citizen.

Not illegal at all
Guest
Not illegal at all

The city and state refuses to give vouchers for private schools claiming that it would infringe on the separation on religion and stat they cannot come and supervise what we teach. If they are crossing the separation of religion and state, then why can’t we get funding? If I’m not mistaken, that’s why they haven’t mixed in until now. If they do, they will have a lot of explaining to do. In addition, many students from these schools go on to get college degrees and many public school students do not. Going through the yeshiva system successfully makes someone just… Read more »

Big case .....does it mean good for kids ?
Guest
Big case .....does it mean good for kids ?

If yeshiva is sponsored by the city for her secular education it must be under city control , but poor education can be found in any public school of the poor district /zip code , many public schools have F ( fail ) grade in all education levels after department of education inspection , literally means that kids didn’t pass any state exam of their age level in subjects like English and Math ….. Stop fooling yourself all rich zip codes only have the best schools and majority of students have private tutors to keep their level of education on… Read more »

about time
Guest
about time

there is no excuse for the wide spread ignorance and lack of education in our communities

This may be good
Guest
This may be good

What’s wrong with kids learning English half day?!? Maybe then the boys will have jobs when they get married and the women can stay home with babies

picture
Guest
picture

Why is COLLIVE advertising the street banner in the above picture? It’s against everything Lubavitch stands for!

History repeating itself
Guest
History repeating itself

Nothing new.

The enlightenment (maskilim) tried very hard to do this in the times of the Tzemach Tzedek. They Rebbe was moiser nefesh – literally– to opposed it – at all cost

History repeating itself

The same thing happed in the times of the Rebbe Rashab.
Then the Yevesektzia…

39 schools
Guest
39 schools

he should call his project the 39 melochos.

Live and let live
Guest
Live and let live

There are plenty of Jewish schools offering high level – quality – secular education.
Is a family chooses it for their children – it’s their choice.
Why this need to FORECE EVERYONE to accept your opinion of what the right thing is?
It’s disgusting. It comes from some need for revenge against someone.
Live and let live

Im in olay toranik!
Guest
Im in olay toranik!

I’m a student who studied at one such Yeshivah.
I was trying to write the subject of this post with spelling mistakes, but it took me four tries to do it with the spelling that I wanted to do on my smartphone, because my phone wouldn’t allow me to make a spelling mistake 🙂

Hashgacha Protis
Guest
Hashgacha Protis

See the video Jem sent out today on their whatsapp broadcast

Public school vs yeshiva
Guest
Public school vs yeshiva

A few people my husband (who went to a mainstream yeshiva not teaching secular studies) went to school with own Fortune 500 companies. A few people I was in honors class with in public high school (and earned their graduate degrees) are flipping burgers Look at our Shluchim- they use their yeshiva education to create massive organization that get international approval If people don’t like our schools they shouldn’t send their kids to them – maybe the govt would like to pay for us to have optional after school secular studies on top of our excellent education. But do not… Read more »

Chinuch al taharas Hakodesh
Guest
Chinuch al taharas Hakodesh

Oholei torah has been fighting all year for this mission…they cant give up now.

Time to Clear Things Up
Guest
Time to Clear Things Up

Based on the comments, seem’s like there’s a bit of confusion with regard to Chabad’s stance on these issues… I am writing as a Tomim, who is currently going through the system and feel that comments such as “there is no excuse for the wide spread ignorance and lack of education in our communities”, are downright insulting and completely wrong. The Rebbe’s stance on these issues is well known from countless sichos and letters, that there is no need and moreover, it is highly damaging for secular studies to be taught to pure jewish children. With regard to the various… Read more »

GED
Guest
GED

My son is an olay toranik and got his GED after school, smicha, online college and going to law school like many of his friends. He didn’t have to waste 12 years learning English, but managed very well learning all English studies in one year. Our boys are very smart and will take them 1-2 years to catch up and learn what others do in 12 years.

enlightenment
Guest
enlightenment

That’s what it is

interesting
Guest
interesting

Some excellent points on all sides in these posts, both for and against. And also some very ignorant-sounding overly zealous iberchochoms, who are essentially so similar to the Yaffed group they find so revolting (the reason for the picture is because it’s referenced in the article, number 16. This kind of reading comprehension is part of what is taught in school and why you can’t be expected to learn “chemistry from kashrus”)

Education????
Guest
Education????

People, do you realize that our forefathers in Russia went on real Messirus Nefesh to be spared from a few hours of secular education? The Public Education Sytstem needs to be examined for producing a generation of savages who have no respect for human life. I can’t believe people are falling for this Yevsektzia Yaffed!!

Foolishness
Guest
Foolishness

Do the fools at Yaffed realize that there are thousands of people which have Master’s degrees which are having a much harder time finding jobs than the people in our community? Furthermore, do they realize that those who graduate from Oholei Torah have the exact same opportunities (if you want to call university an opportunity) as any other American? The only difference may be that it will take one year maximum to catch up on what he missed and get a GED ( and yes even if one never learned a word of secular studies it will only take 3-12… Read more »

To all those against this
Guest
To all those against this

-How many Oholei Torah boys have received a Nobel prize?

How many OT boys have contributed to medicine? How many to science? How many to physics? How many to biology? How many have contributed to land, sea and air vehicle technology?

How many OT boys have advanced cancer research?

The Rebbe said it should be Al Taharas HaKodesh, and I accept that. But please don’t Drei A Kop about how OT boys are “better off”.

To 17 and 24
Guest
To 17 and 24

Couldn’t agree with you more
Where is the mesiras nefesh of the chassidim??
It’s a americanisher hanohga!! We have to fight it

Two points:
Guest
Two points:

One is Ideological and the second is Legal. First Ideological : We are destined to give our children the education OUR RABBIS deem is most appropriate to fulfill G-d’s Will. Being the pioneers of civilization is it ironic that people and cultures that we brought from savagery to relative civility think they will tell us that something is wrong with how we educate ours. And Legally : There is no way Yeshivos are guilty of such a law. “New York State Education Department guidelines requiring .. an education “substantially equivalent” to that of public schools.” The barometer the Yeshivos will… Read more »

Nothing new
Guest
Nothing new

This scenario is just a repeat of the life of the Tzemach Tzedek. Jew triyng to force to government to force Jews to study secular education.
I recommend reading through the Kuntrais haaskola. It’s printed in the back of Sefer Chakira of the Tzemach Tzedek. It can provide one with clearer view of the issue.

To 29
Guest
To 29

While your statements (that our people also have Masters or at least the same opportunities) may ring true for some or even many, statistically our communities are (of) the highest dependants on welfare.
Maybe that’s why Yaffed thinks it’s worth it.

To #15
Guest
To #15

Nothing wrong you can choose for your children any school you like, likewise it’s non of your business what other choose for their children.

Ppl google NWO
Guest
Ppl google NWO

First of all edcaucation should not be the governments business altogether (only in communist regimes), (us constitution), public schools were for poor people who could not afford private school, but that was a slippery slope with politician hungry for power,,

Ppl do your own research about these issues, what does liberty mean, the democrat party ideals is communism under a different name.

knowing how to read and fill out a driver's test & manual
Guest
knowing how to read and fill out a driver's test & manual

DOES NOT CONSTITUTE becoming a “maskil”!?

It means the difference between being an ignoramus and an idiot, and being a respected Yid – who can illustrate what a yid can accomplish.

Being frum & chassidish doesn’t automatically mean that you can’t know how to read and write SIMPLE ENGLISH!

Knowledge = power = respect = mentchlichkeit.

I have never met anyone who said; ….”WOW! Do you know why I was attracted to yiddishkeit? Because the shaliach can’t read or write – if his life depended on it!”

thank you!!! finally!!!
Guest
thank you!!! finally!!!

This is amazing! It’s about time! We stop stealing the education from our kids! Then they wake up wanting it when it’s too late! Thank god

to number 30
Guest
to number 30

how many kids from the school on empire/NY Ave are nobel prize winners? For that matter, how many from Yeshiva of Flatbush hakodosh received a nobel prize?

As for the requirement that private school kids getting the same secular education as public school kids, why would we lower our SECULAR education to match theirs!

To #30
Guest
To #30

‘Better off’ – since when does this necessarily mean that one made science and medicinal contributions to mankind?

The truth is, if the world around us was TRULY properly education (with real education not 2+2=4 education) then Oholei Torah graduates would be recognized as some of the greatest contributors to mankind.

Yes Oholei Torah graduates are way ‘better off’ than Harvard graduates because at Harvard they teach how to satisfy their ego, at Yeshiva you are taught how to satisfy your Neshama. One path leads to pain and continuous insecurity. The other leads to comfort and perpetual ever-increasing trust in G-d.

To # 38 and 37
Guest
To # 38 and 37

Actually it’s quite the opposite. The Rebbe asked at a farbrengen (if my memory is correct it’s simchas Torah 5714 unedited sicha) what right do parents have to steal the lives of their children on Limudei Chol? And yes the rebbe said in that same Farbrengen that learning ‘simple’ Grammar dulls the mind and heart. Go look up their Farbrengen and you will be shocked at how opposed our Rebbe was to Secular Studies.

Insane
Guest
Insane

It’s insane how Lubavitchers who have seen, acknowledged, and even bragged about the Rebbe’s foresight regarding Israel and many other matters unrelated to the Rebbe’s field totally disregard the Rebbe’s heartfelt requests regarding a purely Jewish education without secular studies.

Maskilim
Guest
Maskilim

In the times of the maskilim, there were plenty of chasidim and frum yidden who sympathized with what was being done. This mainly affected their children and children’s children. All you “it’s about time” the goyim made us live UP TO STANDARDS! are like those rishayim.

Welfare
Guest
Welfare

For all those who are saying that our lack of education makes people go on welfare. This has nothing to do with education, but has everything to do with motivation. Benjamin Franklin who was a polymath and probably one of the most educated men that ever lived never received a formal education, however, he was motivated.

TORAH EDUCATION TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK AND LEARN
Guest
TORAH EDUCATION TEACHES YOU HOW TO THINK AND LEARN

Several years ago I visited a public school as requirement when applying for a government grant so my child could attend a school which addressed his difficulties. The public school was immense with state-of-the-art equipment; from classroom furniture, to the latest computers, science labs etc etc etc. Upon speaking with the social worker who showed me around, I mentioned that it must be awesome and so conducive for students to learn in this sort of environment. The SW turned to me and told me that shockingly, in spite of all the opportunities, 75% of the student body would still be… Read more »

#10
Guest
#10

Milwaukee has school choice free education 🙂

Look all the Israelis all over with all the money
Guest
Look all the Israelis all over with all the money

Although they’re sometimes illiterate, barely speaking english.

1) they have help from above
2) lots of motivation (from the army or so)

A well educated yeshiva graduate has the same.

We must show a lot of motivation to succeed to our youth.

Chaim G
Guest
Chaim G

another person who has left his community on the war path.
going to the secular authorities may be mesirah in this case, a very serious crime.

Khan Academy
Guest
Khan Academy

Its Free!!!!!!!!!!

Ben gurion the great tomeich Torah
Guest
Ben gurion the great tomeich Torah

It’s a punishment for living in hutz laaretz. In Israel the benevolent government supports all hareidi illiterates and actively subsidizes their lifestyle. End American galus now!

Question
Guest
Question

If, according to all (or most) opinions – english is “traif”, and all those reading this, really should not be able to – (because it would mean that they would have had to learn “English, secular studies & grammar, etc.”
then……FOR WHOM WAS THIS WEBSITE CREATED?!

There should ONLY be a hebrew site. NO ENGLISH!!!!

#51
Guest
#51

If you think English is Traif, so how come you are writing in English? and I see you know how to read English, I think you should of wrote what you had to say in Hebrew

A Parent
Guest
A Parent

If our kids were getting a good Kodesh education that would be one thing. But they are not getting a good Kodesh education, and have no secular education, so you have a huge group of OUR kids that are completely lost:(
We care too much about our “bar” that we have set. Education should be focused on what is good for the kids, not what makes us feel “chassidish”.

Dangerous Move
Guest
Dangerous Move

From the time the Yidden entered Eretz Yisroel, until this very day, each and every time Yidden went to goyim to help them with their gripe against other Yidden, the end result was disastrous for all Yidden–including those who solicited the goyim against Yidden. Hashem Yerachem.
So, I say to the “whistle-blowers” here, “You need to study some Jewish history, and be wary of what you wish for, and what you turn to goyim for.”

Personal opinion
Guest
Personal opinion

My opinion is everyone should have a proper English education no matter who you are then at least your children have an opportunity to use it later if they want to go to college or get a regular job not just be a teacher and get 25 k a year just because that’s all they know how to do.

To 39
Guest
To 39

Exactly no one ever said that because they end up teaching themselves English

Old Problem, Old Solution.
Guest
Old Problem, Old Solution.

MachRivaYich Mimcha Yetze-u.

Old, old problem.

Vlalmalshinim Al Tehi Tikvah.

Yeshiva is actually the best education even from a secular standpoint
Guest
Yeshiva is actually the best education even from a secular standpoint

Industry and educators today all agree that the current model of education does not prepare the next generation properly to enter and contribute to the workforce. The rapidity of technological advances has made our present educational system obsolete because we teach our students facts and information not critical thinking. Facts and information is no longer necessary because of the internet but critical thinking is crucial in today’s global innovative economy and the internet and technology does not teach these skills. Critical thinking is mastered when learning gemarah so the Yeshiva system is really the best. In addition, educators today believe… Read more »

Relax... They stand no chance
Guest
Relax... They stand no chance

They do this to attract attention to their cause…
read the last part of the article:
“Yaffed plans to go to court…. However that would require parents of current students to sign on publicly as plaintiffs, a tall order in the insular charedi communities of Crown Heights, Williamsburg and Borough Park, the newspaper noted”
No chance!

This a Quote from the main page of their website:
Guest
This a Quote from the main page of their website:

“Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself.”
– John Dewey

This tells it all…

RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE
Guest
RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE

wat is the big deel if no won nos how to spel corectly we wil al get the poynt acros, wile we do that they shud keep suplying peeple with goverment aid becus we didnt get a proper education. im not saying that the city should get involved but there should be a general awakening in the community that there are unfortunately financial issues in the general community and that does tend to come from a lack of education. not everyone out there has the motivation to go to college when they leave the “system” at the age of 22.… Read more »

to number 11
Guest
to number 11

i would love to see you get a job interview when your resume contains basic reading and writing skills. NEWS FLASH they will laugh at your application and move onto the next one in line.

welfare..........
Guest
welfare..........

the reason that welfare is common in all communities is because the liberals are trying to get as many people dependent on them under the name of convincing the general community hat they care for everyone……
this brings me back to my original point that welfare is an easy solution which breeds laziness and allows people to survive flipping burgers and demotivates the people tyrying to do well and earn an honest living.

Wake up call
Guest
Wake up call

Let this serve as a wake up call for those parents concerned about the issues in schools today…

chosid
Guest
chosid

we have to remember that we are chasidim & the rebbe did not want English …. vedal! i hop you all open your eyes & see who we are!!!

????? 50
Guest
????? 50

DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT???
ask ANY chareidy inisrael- there are such stories, you have no idea….

X