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New Course Teaches “Shidduchim”

COLlive exclusive: Marriage classes are a must among Chabad couples. Now a pre-dating course of 8 sessions was developed in Crown Heights. Full Story

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esther frenkel
November 14, 2012 6:23 pm

great course .yasher koach would love to offer it in australia is it available online pls send contact no for adaiad cant open your website thanx kol tuv melb aust

correction not to #33 to #36
October 11, 2012 8:18 pm
to #33
October 11, 2012 8:14 pm

the Rebbe disagrees with the view you put forth
namely that Going to College is a kosher way to make a Keli for Parnasa
since the Rebbe said its Mufrach, a chossid trusts that Hashem is big enough to find him ample Parnasa from a non colledge degree Keli
one needs only to follow the Prescritions of our Rebbe
1) Aseh Lecha Rav
2) Consult (& follow) a Yedid Meivin
3) Minyin, Chitas, Kvius itim,

Great idea
October 11, 2012 4:08 pm

I don’t see why people are hating on this; if you don’t think it’ll be beneficial, no one’s forcing you to go. I’m sure we can all agree it would benefit SOME people. It would be great for guys right after smichah.
I second the online idea.
Hatzlachah!

Online Course
October 11, 2012 3:23 pm

I wish they could offer this course online for people who dont live in Crown Heights..

to #58 #60
October 10, 2012 9:36 pm

i spoke to Rabbi Leibel Groner tonight to ascertain the Rebbe’s typical response to college & if/when he made an exeption Rabbi Leibel Groner said as follows: The Rebbe considered colledge “Sakana gedola” & even for a Married women with for children who was teaching in Beis Rivka who stood to gain much by a colledge degree in Sterns colledge! She would automatically get a higher salary! as well as prestige & credibility for Beis Rivka to the government & outside velt the Rebbe strongly objected & added that it is “Mufrach Bchlal” “uB’frat Vos velen Talmidois zogen vegen Colledge… Read more »

mother of chosson who took the course
October 10, 2012 5:27 pm

my son felt that he benefited from the course. Those who are opposed to it should understand that there were those who opposed Dor yeshorim testing and now it is standard procedure for shidduchim. I think that classes such as this will eventually be the norm as well.

To #59
October 10, 2012 3:51 pm

If you read my comment, you’ll see I agreed that college is often, if not most of the time, not good. However, my comment to #54 is that 54 said the Rebbe’s view was very clear in every case, but I couldn’t even find one source for that, and you didn’t provide it either. I’m not trying to give my own opinion – just clarify the Rebbe’s, but it could be that 54 misrepresented the Rebbe’s opinion.

to #58
October 10, 2012 2:43 pm

here are a number of well versed mashpiim etc (easily accesible) who are familiure with the Rebbe’s stance on College as a vehicle for Keli in Parnasa Rabbi Michoel Selgson Rabbi Leibel Groner Rabbi Shloma Majesky Rabbi Sholom Charitonow Rarely did the Rebbe permit someone to go to college for his parnasa Agav, today more than ever, one’s creativity, ingenuity, discipline & work ethic has allot more relevance as to whether they are employed in today’s new economic landscape many many college educated are unemployed in today’s new economy!!! its up to Mazzal aka Birkas Hashem (hee taashir) if a… Read more »

To # 54
October 10, 2012 3:04 am

Can you please cite your source. I’ve heard people say it many times, but I looked and couldn’t find it written anywhere. As far as I know, the Rebbe was against it being a “thing” that you automatically go to college because, many, if not most times, it’s unnecessary and destructive. But that doesn’t mean for every person. I’ve recently heard a shiur from Rabbi Friedman, where he confirmed my thoughts on this. If I’m incorrect, please correct me by citing a source.

to 56
October 9, 2012 9:06 pm

if a young man or women are not wise enough to follow the rebbe
to be a Mentsh, Middos tovos, & committed to a higher power in life, they are basically not gonna be helped by this course either UNFORTUNATELY!

no need for courses if (yes IF) only people who call themselves followers of the Rebbe actually FOLLOWED the Rebbe
October 9, 2012 7:31 pm

if only everyone followed the Rebbe’s advice (as summed up in #28)
there would hardly be any need for these classes
but unfortunately people don’t follow the Rebbe yet expect things to work out as blessed as if they were following the his Hadracha

to #28 & to 54
October 7, 2012 5:29 pm

finally! a breath of fresh air
thanks for using this forum to share the Rebbe’s view so ppl can know how to succeed & if their failing Ch”V they can know what they need to fix to maximize Birkas Hashem!

re College & Keli for parnasa...
October 7, 2012 4:47 pm

the Rebbe was very very cear re college before chasuna as an abselute NO NO!!
(re After marriage or learning a non college-trade, the Rebbe required permission from a Rav for these exeptions)

the Rebbe’s negation of college for a single boy or girl was abselute & without exeption so without a clear Heter from a Rav Moreh Horaah ur playing with fire by advacating something the Rebbe rendered as Assur & dangerouse!!

th

the rebbe knows best!
October 7, 2012 4:36 pm

The Rebbe knows best According to the Rebbe here are the real tips for clarity in shiduchim & a happy marriage: SHIDUCH STAGE: 1) Have a worthy mentor (one who’s personal marriage shines) 2) Have good middos, work hard on refining your character via Tanya, ch”hN & frank discussions with ur mashpia (over years this will help make you a mentch) 3) Yiras shomayim, When you are principled & self disciplined & always seek to do what H requires of you regardless of your moods, your likely to be a great spouse even when it’s not easy 4) Taking a… Read more »

Make a keli (whilst consulting a Yedid Meivin) = you'll surely succeed!!
October 7, 2012 2:37 pm

Finding your bashert spouse,
Finding your bashert parnasa,
Finding your bashert nachas etc etc
all that is required (according to our Rebbe is

1. a firm commitment to Halacha
2. Consult compliant Mashpiim in each respective area (Yedid u Meivin)
3. Chitas, Rambam, & Make your best effort in accordance to your “mentor” (meivin)

After Checking out the syllabus..
October 7, 2012 1:58 pm

Almost all of these topics are covered in most seminaries, especially Mrs. Morosow in Bais Rivka CH who has a incredible bayis yehudi class. Other sems known for this are Italy and Tel Aviv. I believe that the girls are taught more about relationships, dating, and marriage than the boys are, so I wouldn’t be surprised if most participants are bochurim.

to #20
October 7, 2012 1:40 pm

nobady is stoping you from getting a job and becoming a socssesful profetional, you dont have a job you are teaching in pre-school, thats becous your not talented enough to socsead, becous if you were worth somthing you would have learnt a trade ect. and get down to work, and leave the men alone for tew or three years and then they will get a job and support your family like the world was running for the past 5000 years.

to #45
October 7, 2012 12:12 pm

You are probably still single because of your attitude. The women pick up on your negitivity and dont want that in their lives. You probably could benefit from a good class before you meet any other women and waste their time and yours.

To 43
October 7, 2012 11:05 am

Your language and syyle realy makes you a REAL CATCH.

NEED DATES FOR SINGLES "not a class"
October 7, 2012 10:49 am

agree with 39, 30 & 7 please focus on shidduchim, make events with singles more often and not a class, we don’t need a class to teach the a b c in life how to trait a man/woman, we need more single events as a non profit and not as a bussiness. advice: Lets focus Mrs. Shaffer and Krasnianski on making shidduchim and yr course will come along if necessary we are not dumb to register/pay a course on dating/marriage advice/service. WE DON’T NEED A CLASS ON THAT MATTER, WHO NEEDS ADVICE WILL RESEARCH A GOOD MASHPIAH .WE ARE NOT… Read more »

to #10 etc...
October 7, 2012 9:33 am

They probably mean taharas hamishpacha classes….

What an opportunity
October 7, 2012 8:51 am

BH Here in SA we have something called Marriage Prepare. Every jewish couple wanting to be married by a rav must take this course. It consist of 6 hours of Taharas Hamispocha halacha and hashkofa taught by a teacher separately for males and females. And 5 hours with a trained counselor on practical skills. I’m so happy that you have tailor made a program for our own. Yasher Koach.

To #33
October 7, 2012 8:37 am

Let’s turn the tables. Perhaps you need to be more open-minded. There are small ‘keilim’ and big ‘keilim’. If you would like to make a comfortable living in today’s Frum society, you need to become a professional. Many would consider a professional education (college + graduate school) as a ‘minimal requirement’ to opening a keili for a birchas Hashem, biharchava. Hashem works in nature, but becoming a pre-school teacher and making a 6 figure salary, is not natural.

Sounds really nice
October 7, 2012 3:34 am

This sure sounds nice, but im sorry, writing that the program was developed with mashipim and mashpios without putting up their names seems ludicrus.

wow??????
October 7, 2012 2:53 am

Now someone will tell me how to date what’s wrong with you

a positive factor
October 7, 2012 2:48 am

My daughter was in Mrs Shaffers course, and it definitely was a positive experience. Since then the classes have been improved and sensitively adjusted to meet the needs of the girls. It does not replace parents guidance and the role of a mashpia but is definitely helpful. I believe that bochorim need it desperately, Many, especially those who have not been home for years, have only been exposed to dormitory bochorim life, during the formative post teen age years, and need guidance and direction , beyond what a mashpia offers. Thank you to the organizers for being pro-active, seeing a… Read more »

#28 great advice! Thank you thank you!
October 7, 2012 2:37 am

Im a ahadchan in CH & really liked your summery if the Rebbeh’s view, i will print out your comment for future reference! Thank you!

how does it work?!
October 7, 2012 2:19 am

is it different classes for different ages and “stages”?!
not such a good idea to have 19 year olds with older singles, people that havent gone on a single date with people that have been in the system for a while now…

re post 28
October 7, 2012 2:13 am

looks like you copy/pasted the silibus for the adei ad course

#28 very very nice!
October 7, 2012 2:12 am

so are you for it or against the course?

as an insider i can reassure you that the course BH does include all your points!

#33 the best quote in your lenghty post is...
October 7, 2012 2:09 am

“people need to be a bit more open minded and more intellectually honest and realize that the -naturalistic- world view has long been proven incomplete to explain much of what happens”

Keli yes but Birchas Hashem is essential!!

# 29
October 7, 2012 1:43 am

21 and took this while in the process- personally
i think it was helpful and beneficial to take while dating…

To #28 agree with you 1000%
October 7, 2012 1:41 am

Amaizing! Yashakoach!!

To all those who think Parnasa comes only from a college degree
October 7, 2012 1:39 am

-the naturalistic-view that keeps popping up in these coments is patantly unchasidic or jewish! i’m reffering to the view that casts “nature” as the main and only factor at play in determining who will be employed and who will be jobless From the comments above it seems that too many self described chasidim have lost touch with their own teachings as to how the world really operates, according to chasidis isn’t nature merely a mask? a shell? isn’t nature to be followed only because god in his torah requires us to go through the motions of following nature “bchol asher… Read more »

Mrs Shaffer
October 7, 2012 1:36 am

I was in her class she is AMAZING. She should give many more. Lets not take anything for granted she talks tachlis! Thank you to the organizers.

28 wow!
October 7, 2012 1:33 am

Ty!

what is this?
October 7, 2012 1:29 am

maybe a shiduch is all we need NOT a class

Sounds awesome but...
October 7, 2012 1:26 am

Hopefully s1 there will make sure not to have older/younger brothers or sisters in the same class-VERY important. And is this geared toward a specific age- or does it make sense to take it when you’re 21 and have been dating..

The Rebbe knows best
October 7, 2012 1:25 am

According to the Rebbe here are the real tips for clarity in shiduchim & a happy marriage: SHIDUCH STAGE: 1) Have a worthy mentor (one who’s personal marriage shines) 2) Have good middos, work hard on refining your character via Tanya, ch”hN & frank discussions with ur mashpia (over years this will help make you a mentch) 3) Yiras shomayim, When you are principled & self disciplined & always seek to do what H requires of you regardless of your moods, your likely to be a great spouse even when it’s not easy 4) Taking a hachlata to live in… Read more »

Waste of time? Really? Huh? (9,10,15)
October 7, 2012 1:24 am

Are you seriously saying that 8 courses can possibly be a waste of time when what’s at stake is your biggest life investment ever?!!! You’re not even talking about any particular course rather saying that your future is not worth the investment of 8 courses? I think that there is no such thing as a waste of time when you’re talking about valid education that may improve your marriage or future marriage. Read books, listen to speeches, talk to smart friends, talk to professionals and look into any courses available. You’re marriage is your most important and probably largest investment… Read more »

Phone conference
October 7, 2012 1:21 am

Will this be available via phone conference or online

To 3:
October 7, 2012 1:20 am

I don’t believe somebody who is not ready yet should take the course for two reasons:
1. They will not internalize as well as they would when they’re actually in the stage.
2. They, being younger, would make the older girl/boys uncomfortable.

#9....
October 7, 2012 1:18 am

This is why your not married look and see how your talking…

Can you...
October 7, 2012 1:16 am

…make this available online for those of us who are not living in Crown Heights?

We need this on phone conference
October 7, 2012 12:38 am

This is AMAIZING

AGREE WITH #20
October 6, 2012 11:57 pm

I completely agree with #8 and #20. If only more people thought like you, the young Lubavitch community wouldn’t live in such poverty!

Agree with #8!
October 6, 2012 11:52 pm

My husband and I live in crown heights. We are both educated professionals. Many of my old highschool friends are currently living in Crown Heights, in poverty. The women, who were bright in highschool are now stuck teaching 3 year old kids in preschool. The men are in kollel. It hurts me to see that while we have high-flying jobs, these couples were never given the academic and social tools to go out into the secular world and develop themselves professionally. Needless to say, financial stability plays a tremendous role in maintaining a happy marriage.

took the courses- great idea!!
October 6, 2012 11:52 pm

more than the courses- the access and flexibility of the instructors both during and after the courses was great!

TO #9 AND #10
October 6, 2012 11:38 pm

Sometimes one tends to think that he perfect and doesnt need anybody to tell him what to do, but the fact is, you dont know what you dont know. you may think that you know everything about marriage, but who says what you know ( or what you think you know) is legitimate? besides the fact that the classes have nothing to do with YOU on a personal level. its a much more general idea of the commitments and values of marriage. Nobody in these courses are telling what to do or how to think, its simply a test for… Read more »

Go Shloime!!!!!
October 6, 2012 11:23 pm

Your ideas are always helping the future of chabad!

Funding
October 6, 2012 11:22 pm

Where is the funding coming from

Huh?
October 6, 2012 11:04 pm

“Marriage classes are a must among Chabad couples.”

Really? A must? I guess I should be amazed that coupled were able to marry and stay married the past few thousand years.

what about....
October 6, 2012 10:52 pm

Having some classes for married people as well.
The bochurim have no idea how to treat their wifes. The kollel
Should provide this chizuk and putting your hashkofos straight. But they dont…. And even the most kind and chsiddish bochur can turn out to be selfish and not respectfull to his wife and emotional needs. As a woman who went trough this with the most amazing bochur in the dates turn out to be a horrible husband. getting his ego hurt when a problem was oppenly discussed with the goal of improving the feelings….wasnt a horrible husband because

great
October 6, 2012 10:15 pm

i love it

great idea..
October 6, 2012 10:03 pm

#5, great idea. all taking the course will be on the same page… and are looking to improve their respective outlook,,,,

Bad example
October 6, 2012 9:40 pm

Nobody should feel pressured to commit after only 2 weeks! good gracious!

REALLY??
October 6, 2012 9:22 pm

You write “marriage classes are a must among chabad couples” … really? I dont think so. maybe if you grew up in a dysfunctional home and you have no what the heck you are doing. I will be just, without your help, thank you very much.

Waste of time
October 6, 2012 9:19 pm

I am of marriageable age and I think that for myself these courses are a total waste of time. I don’t need to sit for 20 hours and listen to a bunch of “experts” to tell me how to treat a lady and what not to say on a date. I was lucky to have been raised by two caring and loving parents, who have taught me by their actions what makes a marriage work. Maybe some people need this, but I don’t need someone who doesn’t know the first thing about me to give me dating or marriage advice.… Read more »

2 weeks?!
October 6, 2012 9:07 pm

you can not make a decision about marrying someone after only 2 weeks of dating. no wonder many marriages dont work out in the frum community.

you guys dont have your priorities straight, the men dont work, the women work menial jobs, they are both not educated, and they are way too young/immature when they get married.

GUT MOED 770
October 6, 2012 8:44 pm

great idea… but, but… I have 2 suggestions: before your course on teaching the shidduch process : 1. please give a lesson to the Parents how to appreciate and trait yr shadchan, people involved that invest their time in yr child’s shidduch, even a shiddush that did not end up to be, but it’s time consumed AND kal v’chomer for a shidduch that worked as they find their real bashert …very important isn’t it ??? to teach how to be a mentch, 2. also teach the friends and classmates how to share names for boys and girls, train them to… Read more »

went out with a girl ...
October 6, 2012 8:42 pm

was instructed not to discuss the concerns she had although i think we should have, she ended it something tells me if we would have we would be married now ….

IDEA:
October 6, 2012 8:33 pm

How about people try to make shidduchim THROUGH this program….

non ch res
October 6, 2012 8:01 pm

will it be available on phone conference?

It's about time
October 6, 2012 7:40 pm

I’m going to suggest my child takes the course even though they’re not yet ready. This is a great thing, but may I suggest a course for parents as well? Too many parents put pressure on their kids or interfere or look for shidduchim that just aren’t shayach for their child. What do you think?

impressed
October 6, 2012 4:58 pm

wow bh we r attacking the problem in such a beautiful and constructive way kol hakavod for all those involved and lots of hazlocho

thank you
October 6, 2012 12:31 pm

amazing idea. thank you mr moshe and fiegie and mrs krasienski

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