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Tuesday, 14 Heshvan, 5780
  |  November 12, 2019

My Non Existent Shidduch Date

From the COLlive inbox: The Shadchan and her parents pressured her to meet - and then the bochur was asked... Full Story

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The Rebbe Said No Operation

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The rest should go smoothly
Guest
The rest should go smoothly

Good luck

get a grip
Guest
get a grip

you have some growing up to do. This wasnt the end of the world. Dont over think this. You weren’t “pressured” into giving an answer and had to endure all the stress” that comes with it. This is how it all works. plain and simple. dont stress it.

ehhh
Guest
ehhh

He was upset at the shidduch offer because “he wanted to go away for the summer”? Are you serious. What a nebach excuse, obviously this guy and any other guy or girl who has something that lame to say is definitely not serious/ready for marriage…and then we ask ourselves why there is a shidduch crisis. Let’s first make sure that we are ready and wanting to look for the other half before getting involved with shidduchim and avoid wasting everyone’s time and emotions.

That is the rule
Guest
That is the rule

The boy is asked and has to agree and do research first.

But honestly he may have been asked and then done research or aht not…. that is sometimes a nice way of saying no. Kinda like It’s not you It’s me.

Just shake it off and move on that’s shidduchim. Glade your friends and faamily are there for you.

Inspirational!
Guest
Inspirational!

So beautiful to see how the Rebbe still guides even in this dark golus! Such a great hachana for gimmel Tammuz! I will share this story with my children who never met the Rebbe at the supper table. Ad mosai!!!!

seriously?
Guest
seriously?

why are we posting an article by someone who hasn’t even been on a date yet.

Thank you!
Guest
Thank you!

May you find your beshert with clarity, easily, and great mazel, b’shaah tova u’mutzlachat!

JEM!!
Guest
JEM!!

You are a jewel. Go far in life and treat yourself and the world with peace and love.

Seriously
Guest
Seriously

I went through this myself and I couldn’t agree more. Women – especially while in shiduchim – seem to be a lot more emotional and therefore the boy should definitely have heard about the idea before it’s even mentioned to the girl!

It is obviously a mistake of the mother
Guest
It is obviously a mistake of the mother

but it’s not only about girls finding out if the boy is ready it’s also about boys finding out if the girl is ready. this could have happened in reverse.
In general, each side should be told
if the suggesting side is ready to go out or if they still need to do research

enough
Guest
enough

So? What is the message? SO he said he wasn’t interested. okey dokes. Move on. unmet expectations? Welcome to life darling. Perhaps you need to widen your perspective a bit and do some growing up before you get an actual date.

True
Guest
True

Communication is key. Just talk and double check things over.

I agree!
Guest
I agree!

I’ve been where this author is, not fun at all.

Kevin
Guest
Kevin

Simple solution the shadchan should insist on speaking directly to the boy /girl. If they’re mature enough to be dating they don’t need tatty n mommy micro managing every tiny aspect.

It's a 2 way street
Guest
It's a 2 way street

Same thing can happen to me and I’m a guy
Please don’t be biased and write the oped in a general matter not pointing fingers at any one gender

Welcome
Guest
Welcome

Welcome to the field!
It’s their first shidduch and same with you. That’s how it works. You’ll get used to it.

Chill Pill
Guest
Chill Pill

Don’t Get emotionally attached to anyone before going out. Now, on to the next.

I understand and agree to all above
Guest
I understand and agree to all above

But why does the boy have to look in to her first when the girl will probably just say no

Uh oh maybe this wasn't a good idea.
Guest
Uh oh maybe this wasn't a good idea.

The boy’s parents will see it and know it was about them.

A “no” is not always a no in shidduchim. The parents might have waited the summer and asked their son if he was ready yet. He Very well might be!

Even if there is a no or even a mix-up the parents might have kept you in mind before you posted this!

Oh please
Guest
Oh please

One side always has to go first.

It wasn't meant to be
Guest
It wasn't meant to be

Move on. Happened to my girls & it’s OK – their loss.

Interesting but...
Guest
Interesting but...

She says, “The Rebbe gave me a clear answer.” I read the entire account as it’s presented here. Where was the clear answer that the Rebbe gave?

So well written!
Guest
So well written!

And so true. Wishing you should meet your Bashert very soon, and it should be clear and easy!

lol
Guest
lol

this is quite a dramatized miscommunication, buddy the world aint out to get ya

"Before she is told his name...."
Guest
"Before she is told his name...."

I agree with the basic premise of the article, and I applaud you for standing up and speaking out for what you believe in. But the end of the article seems extremely chauvinistic You were upset because you already agreed to date and the guy never even knew you were an option, and your only issue is that the roles should be REVERSED? As a guy myself, I can tell you that there is a lot of stress and consideration that goes into the first date also. Guys should be granted the same level of respect and decency that you… Read more »

SO RIGHT
Guest
SO RIGHT

She’s so right. In the Yiddishe tradition the boy has to agree first in line with Darko shel Ish Lachzor Achar
Isha. Unfortunately as secular standards takes over our community those traditions among others goes out the door.

OMG
Guest
OMG

I feel so bad for you. This is the worst that should ever happen to you!

it's not the boys fault
Guest
it's not the boys fault

apparently it looks like this shadchan is using you as a trial, totally their fault

Thank you and  much hatzlocha
Guest
Thank you and much hatzlocha

I agree so much with your wise suggestion. At least do not take it too hard, expecting people to know what you think is appropriate doesnt always work. Not just in shidduchim. For some reason it is harder for a girl to hear a “no’ , than for a boy. It is a fact. Hatzlocha.

Suggestion
Guest
Suggestion

Next time you are approached about as shidduch ask for the boys side to first confirm if they’re interested before u look into it as you dont wasnt to go through this again. Also be sure to confirm with the shadchan that the boy himself has agreed and only then start your decision making. Sorry to hear you went through that. And being pressured because they’re “looking into other options” is so wrong. Even if they might be, that should never be told to the girl. Either they think this is a good shidduch idea or they dont. Other girls… Read more »

Yehuda  l g
Guest
Yehuda l g

I did write before and I am willing to meat this girl so who can help me to find out who she is please contact me on [email protected] thanks a lot to all.

really?
Guest
really?

Why is the shadchin baming the other side? poeple get so many no so thety say ask if the girl is intreasted? if yes then you look into it. whats the big deal?

A few things I picked up
Guest
A few things I picked up

1) “This is my future” a decision to go on a random shiduch date is not a decision about your future. Like your friend wisely said, you can say no. Sometimes you can meet your shiduch on a train. That doesn’t mean deciding to take a train is a big life decision. 2) That mom sounds very selfish and also very immature. She was not open with her 20ish year old son. That’s sad. 3) you can’t convince someone to date if they’re not interested and you shouldn’t take it personal. The issue here is a simple miscommunication between mother… Read more »

This is me
Guest
This is me

I have a sneaking suspicion this is regarding what happened with me, the story is very similar, and the dates match almost perfectly to my recollection. I apologize for any negitive vibe this may have given you, but this really was a silly occurrence, as my summer plans are well known to those who know me, and I was very surprised to learn that my parents were looking into anything else for me to to do, including shiduchim which really was not on my mind at the time, and is more-less off the table untill after the summer, as this… Read more »

To the author
Guest
To the author

every single decision, big and small can be stressful. You have to take it like a man and decide what you want. Don’t blame everyone else. Things happen and you have to let it go. Instead of spending the time to compose this article, make up the sleep you lost pondering your BIG decision to date someone or not (big deal!).

I cannot understand you
Guest
I cannot understand you

A. The boy is not at fault here. His parents are, for not being communicative with him and making assumptions on his behalf. B. You make fun of the boy for being upset that his parents are making decisions on his behalf without consulting him. Yet you are entitled to be upset at the way his parents treated you. Double standard much? C. I am not sure why you’ve decided that the boy always does research first. It is extremely common for the girl’s family to come up with the idea, do research, and then approach the boy’s side. D.… Read more »

general and specific homework
Guest
general and specific homework

i am married, and i married off several children. the first communication via shadchan should be general on both sides. is this shidduch a ‘maybe’. if you learn that it is not even a ‘maybe’ you could both save a lot of time, emotion etc. once you both learn that it is a ‘maybe’ you could both then invest the time effort and emotion into learning more about the other party. this approach would have averted your scenario before any body got too invested. At this point i would tell you DO NOT wait for him until after the summer.… Read more »

other side of the world
Guest
other side of the world

thanks may hashem be with you and help you always

to #34
Guest
to #34

If you really were not looking into shidduchim, shouldn’t your parents know that??
The girl got pressured because “your parents” (if it really was them” put an immense amount of pressure to get an answer from the shadchan. That should NOT have happened if you were not ready to go out!

Process
Guest
Process

Most probably )99%) the boy was not interested and this is a nice way to say no
And so what? What do you care? It means that is not any good for you
Please , be smart , don’t decide your life putting a letter in Igros
Go to the Ohel , daven , this is good , do mitzvos with more hidur , help people
Be patient that at the right time 100% that you are going to get married with the best for you and for him

Been through this many times
Guest
Been through this many times

The whole shidduch process is full of stress. If This minor glitch, even before a date, is so upsetting then you are not ready to date. Most boys families have many girls families waiting to hear an answer as Shadchans send girls names and resumes without being asked. Unfortunately you can’t expect “fair” and easy sailing in this process.

Been there
Guest
Been there

Had that happen to my son twice. It’s not only the girls these things happen to.

Same happened to me!
Guest
Same happened to me!

I could have written this story years ago. And guess what, a few months after the summer the boy felt he was ready to start with shiduchim. I was not married or dating yet so I decided to give it a try, after all it had nothing to do with him. I won’t lie. I was very mad at his mother. Fast forward a few years and we are happily married, built a beautiful family and I have a GREAT relationship with my Shviger!!
Good luck to you! Remember your priorities when you choose your life partner 🙂

Jump in the lake.
Guest
Jump in the lake.

I’m not gonna make a single phone call about a girl before i know that she is wiling to at least do the same.

Shiddach etiquette
Guest
Shiddach etiquette

There are no hard and fast rules. Usually, both sides are approached, parents investigate, and often the kids are only told when/if the parents think there is even something to pursue. Why would I want to bother my daughter/son about every single name suggested, unless it seems likely? Also, why give the boy all the info (profile, etc.) about the girl, without knowing if the girl’s family is even interested? Then you would complain that all the boys know your info, even tho they were boys that you had no interest in dating! the main point I get from the… Read more »

Rabbi
Guest
Rabbi

It was meant to be
It is a test and a lesson from g_d

Ask the Igros?!
Guest
Ask the Igros?!

Since when did the Rebbe ever say to ask a question via the Igros?! Who made this thing up?!

The Rebbe said to ask A mashpia, “Yedidim Mevinim”, or davening at the Ohel.

Who made up this Igros thing??!!

Dating coach really helps
Guest
Dating coach really helps

There is a therapist in Miami who does dating coaching by phone. My shadchan sent me. He really helped me find clarity when I was confused. I think the first conversation is free (I only needed 1). His name is Rabbi Shmuel Druin. You can look him up.

To # 44
Guest
To # 44

The phone research was done of course.
It was that his parents never asked him about doing shiduchim.

to the Author
Guest
to the Author

While saying the he “wanted to go away for the summer”, was a poor excuse on the bochur’s behalf. It seems his parents, and your parents, are the ones at fault here. Just like you were upset over being pressured, so was he. You are failing to see his side of the picture, and unfortunately that is a very bad trait in regards to dating.

Rabbi Hillel said:
Guest
Rabbi Hillel said:

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.”

Have COMMON DECENCY, people! It’s not that hard, if you really try…

Getting upset?
Guest
Getting upset?

You havent seen a thing yet.I had some shadchan push for a guy.Just couldn’t come up with a date and suddenly he pulled out and said it’s not for him.The “wonderful” caring shadchan also disappeared and the only one I look at is this obnoxious,uncaring shadchan who thought she’s some diva.That’s how it is.There are some neutral girls and guys out there,There are rejections and nos and all sorts of things.You have to “man up” and move on.Easier said than done.Sorry but you don’t seem ready to go out and neither does the boy.It’s very apparent.tell your parents to stop… Read more »

new world
Guest
new world

singles need to be directly involved themselves..parents should be minimally involved

one better
Guest
one better

I was approached by a family via they wanted me to go out with their son,we looked into it , said yes and a date was set up, for a m. shabbos, erev shabbos the shadchan calls to say the mother wants to see me on shabbos , np I agree to stand in 770 in the spot she allocated , the second shabbos was over the phone rings to call the whole thing off. this happened 25 years ago, For those wondering I was slim , dressed very tznius in expensive clothes and pretty…. I just shrugged said your… Read more »

Be nice
Guest
Be nice

I have tears in my eyes… not for the girl’s story about the boy who didn’t want to date yet … but for the unpleasant way some of you are writing to this young girl, an innocent who was hurt by what happened, who wants to share this to inform others, and now she has to read negative and hurtful comments about herself as well? Does it ever end?

welcome to the world of dating
Guest
welcome to the world of dating

while it may not be right, get over it. as you have a lot of disappointment ahead of you

Not the biggest deal, but the point is there
Guest
Not the biggest deal, but the point is there

Find out if your son or daughter is ready for you to start looking!! BEFORE YOU START LOOKING

I've been there
Guest
I've been there

I have a different viewpoint. 1) Many times parents and children do not communicate well with each other. They need to work on it, but as an outsider, it’s not your problem. 2) Now a days many people are extremely challenged when it comes to making, and more importantly, keeping commitments. If this young man can commit and actually keep his commitment that is fabulous. If you feel you are ready to try meeting someone else, go for it. If nothing happens when the end of the summer comes around I encourage you to see if this guy is interested.… Read more »

Disappointing
Guest
Disappointing

The lack of compassion and empathy for the author is truly sad. I think she was very refined and balanced in her communication. Shidduchim isn’t easy, and there is a basis in daas torah to get a boy’s OK first–his OK, not his mother’s. Also, it’s hard on all sides, maybe there was a misunderstanding in the boy’s family. I think a call to keep something in mind to be more sensitive is a good idea. Desensitizing ourselves to poor treatment in shidduchim, whether intentional or not, isn’t a good idea either. And being compassionate and empathetic to the writer… Read more »

Morals of the story:
Guest
Morals of the story:

1) Parents speak to your children. If they’re ready to get married then they’re ready enough for you work WITH and ALONGSIDE them.

2) I agree with the suggestion (made by quite a few) that shadchonim should contact boys and girls or young men and women directly. If they’re ready to get married then they’re ready enough for you work WITH and ALONGSIDE them.

Every thing is Hashgacha Protis!
Guest
Every thing is Hashgacha Protis!

Like you said, the answer was clear. You got the bracha to understand that this boy was not for you..but you also got a taste of the experience (however unfair) of what goes on and that in itself will put you in a readier place for a shidduch when the next one comes your way. By the way, the details in this article match very closely to what I just experienced so like the bochur who apologized above, I apologize too, in case it was me… I feel I wouldn’t be giving any girl a fair dating time if I… Read more »

Comment
Guest
Comment

When posting a comment no need to be rude or mean! You may not agree but clearly our young lady here was hurt. She is beginning her dating experience with the goal of marriage & seriously contemplating her future.Be kind, be sensitive but no need to be mean.
Hatzlocha to the author of this article. May the journey be an easy and fast one.Simchos!!!

common
Guest
common

this article is a simple example of miscommunication. But, common girl, stop getting over emotional over such a petty thing. You never dated before and your excitements were let down but don’t write an aritcle about that! I know for girls to write articles criticizing boys behaviors is cool these days, but this is so stupid. It’s ironic that the person “who sees the good in people” went out of her way to find a problem with the shidduch system. Finally, the problem with writing such articles is that you diminish the severity of the real issues with shiduchim and… Read more »

be ready for disappointment
Guest
be ready for disappointment

and if your date really turns out as it was described then you will be pleasantly surprised I know that from my own experience a date comes a date go just like the BUS it’s always a next one be strong never give up hope.

Comment 2
Guest
Comment 2

Being a married man, all I can say is that this girl is extremely brave for writing this article., And she is one thousand percent right. Parents should communicate with their children, and should only say yes to the shadchan if there kids said yes. And comment 2, it’s a disgrace if u think that’s normal.

Its life
Guest
Its life

Get over yourself and move on BIG DEAL he was going away for the summer people are allowed to go away i don’t understand the stress this is life honeybunch. You’re making it seem as if someone died c”v!

Faxes get answered?
Guest
Faxes get answered?

You opted for faxing a letter to the Ohel asking for a Brocho that it should be as clear as day, whether or not he is for you. And so by 12:00 noon, on Thursday, my mother was able to tell the shadchan “yes.”

Did your fax get an answer that made it “as clear as day” that he is for you?

Mazal Tov
Guest
Mazal Tov

The custom WAS that the boy is asked first. If he says yes, then the girl is asked. But since Shidduchim got much more complicated today, the process evolved into two stages. Both sides are given the names. Each side is asked in the following manner. Are you interested in looking into this name. If one side is not interested, then there is no Shidduch, obviously. If both sides say yes, then we go to the next step. Each side looks into the name, which means that now you start the real research, whereas before it was quick and superficial… Read more »

Same thing happened to me!!!
Guest
Same thing happened to me!!!

In s way I’m relieved to see that I wasn’t the only person it happened to. I took it personally. This is a disgrace to bochrim and their parents that feel they are superior and can play with emotions of the girl. In no other circle does this happen. The boy is asked first and when he gives a yes the girl us asked so not to offend the girl.

Welcome to the world
Guest
Welcome to the world

You are agreeing to see him not to marry him. Dont get emotionally involved before you even meet him!
You’ll just be in for alot of dissapointments… unfortunately
I understand that it was a stress, i remember when i first started going out… but then you grow up and realize the world is much bigger than you and me and the way things happen are just how Hashem wants them to be. So learn from your past, don’t dwell and feel the need to announce it.

BH  We always say "Baruch Hash-m".
Guest
BH We always say "Baruch Hash-m".

When we are young, our feelings are tender and we sometimes can’t “know what’s flying”. We must pay careful attention to our “intuition” which is such an amazing gift from Hash-m. Never ignore it.

The whole experience isl

Happened to me too
Guest
Happened to me too

And I’m sorry. You’re 100% correct and I appreciate you taking the time to write this. Great job

BH  We always say "Baruch Hash-m".
Guest
BH We always say "Baruch Hash-m".

When we are young, our feelings are tender and we sometimes can’t “know what’s flying”.. Pay careful attention to your “intuition” which is such an amazing gift from Hash-m. Never ignore it. Instead of asking Hash-m, ” Why did I have to go through this?”, try to realize that when the emphasis is on Ahavas Yisroel, we need not negatively judge the other as much as we need to choose something else for ourselves. It can be agonizing for some people. NO ONE SHOULD EVER FEEL REJECTED IN THE SENSE THAT ONE MUST THEREFORE BE INADEQUATE OR INFERIOR IF A… Read more »

BH  We always say "Baruch Hash-m".
Guest
BH We always say "Baruch Hash-m".

Continued from last version sent.

The title of the volumes about shidduchim, preparing for the wedding and building an everlasting edifice from writings by the Rebbe and translated into English is ETERNAL JOY. It is must reading for everyone involved in any way with shidduchim. Following the Rebbe”s advice will help immensely. Parents should review these volumes before the children are born!

Clear answer
Guest
Clear answer

The clear answer is that the boy said no

The funniest thing...
Guest
The funniest thing...

Would be if they got married!
#34 maybe try again after the summer?
And let us know if ti works out:)

49  yr   in  the hood
Guest
49 yr in the hood

bh gam zu la tova
she should be very happy
all is good , yes the Rebba gave her a clear answear

pressure is poison
Guest
pressure is poison

Never should there be pressure in the shidduch process. It poisons everything. It pressures people to make decisions before they have thought things through. It can take more than a couple of days to decide to go out with someone. Let the dater have their space to get more information and to THINK! What does it matter if you take a couple of days to decide to feel comfortable with going out with someone? And for marriage – what does it matter if you take a few more weeks to think about and get to feel comfortable making a decision… Read more »

Adjusted  values
Guest
Adjusted values

Now who says that writing to the Igeres is wrong????!!!!! There is precedent with from Chassidim from Russia who communicated by thought with the previous Rebbe after he left the former Soviet Union and these Chassidim had no other choice. The method of connection to the Rebbe is a personal matter not to be dictated by someone else who may have a different perspective on how to connect to the Rebbe. Davening at the Ohel is fine, but don’t say that someone else’s value system is incorrect when yours may be the one that is deficient

Hashem is Protecting you
Guest
Hashem is Protecting you

My mashpia told me very wise words. Whenever a shidduch falls through, it is Hashem’s way of protecting you.
(It was at a time I was upset a wonderful shidduch fell through for a family member; I discovered two yrs later that the boy had major anger and control issues)
I don’t know why you had to go through this experience, but may this be the only hardship you endure in shidduchim and in the merit of you agreeing to the Rebbe’s advice with Kabolos Ol, may you find our true zivug easily and smoothly! Much Hatzalocho!!

You Are A Brave Chassidishe Dugma Chaya
Guest
You Are A Brave Chassidishe Dugma Chaya

I really appreciate your sharing this personal story to help others. You did all that you could to act in a tznius, kind and chassidish way. Your efforts will be successful. The bochur may even be your Bashert but he was not ready. I know of girls where names came up multiple times until the couples went out and did get married. Your strong hiskashrus to The Rebbe will guide you for true happiness. This story reveals how in shidduchim the boys and girls must have a mahspia to help the process. May we dance at your wedding b’ shaha… Read more »

It's not a gender issue
Guest
It's not a gender issue

A girl did the same thing to me.
It hurt, and I got over it. Lol

Stop listening to Paul Simon
Guest
Stop listening to Paul Simon

Not having grown up frum, I know some of what I’m about to say may have been redundant for previous generations. But I have a feeling that for this generation it may be needed. Singer Paul Simon wrote a song with the line; “I knew a woman…became a wife. These are the very words she uses to describe her life!” He meant it as a slam against marriage, but it’s actually a powerful and positive truth. When you’re single, you’re “just” a man or a woman. A man drinks and fights. A woman dances and decorates. When you marry you… Read more »

OP GREAT POINTS!
Guest
OP GREAT POINTS!

To those posters who attacked and gave over callous responses you know who you are and need your middos checking. There is a right and wrong way to do a shidduch process its not just then ends but the means too has to be kosher and that means being sensitive to each others times and feelings and shadchanim you have a duty to try and be on top this so this situation doesn’t reoccur. Sorry Op you had to go through this. Hatzlacha

I wish you good luck in your search
Guest
I wish you good luck in your search

The Rebbe has ways of giving answers!

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