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Saturday, 20 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 25, 2019

    Living It Up In the Seminary Years

    From the COLlive inbox: A Chabad mother now looks back at her seminary years in Israel and see one aspect in a whole new light. Full Story

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    Who are you addressing?
    Guest
    Who are you addressing?

    Who are you trying to reach with this letter? Many of the girls do NOT enjoy having to scramble for a place and live with strangers every Shabbos. And given how much the parents are paying – close to $20,000!! – there is no reason for the seminaries not to provide meals for Shabbos every single week. You and your friends should take this up with the seminaries. It’s not something the girls have any control over. Most of them would PREFER not to burden you.

    Point being?
    Guest
    Point being?

    What is the point of the author here. What is the logical conclusion that she demands? That seminaries fund these shabbos adventures? That parents do? It is not that hard to point out flaws in the manner in which people behave themselves. When one takes to the keyboard to bring light to a concern, it is done with the hope that the publication of their thoughts will lead to a betterment of the current situation. I did not see or “smell” any type of conclusion of this article. It broadly mentioned several ongoing problems, and while I may identify as… Read more »

    understood 100%
    Guest
    understood 100%

    so what should seminary girls do ?

    girls need a course in sem
    Guest
    girls need a course in sem

    Part of the classes should be how to be a mentch when be a host. to take you out of being so self absorbed and making you realize others are going out of their way for you, financially, emotionally…and with the sem getting $18,000 tuition from the americans, if I was you ithe anglo israeli, I would ask the school to help cover some of the costs. When the girls have an off shabbos it cost the sem nothing which is wrong!!!

    Appreciate!
    Guest
    Appreciate!

    Yes girls have to appreciate appreciate and appreciate !!!

    happens in camp too
    Guest
    happens in camp too

    counselors don’t see those things either. They are so self absorbed in having “a great time “, they don’t stop to think for 1 minute the burden and toll it takes on the shluchim

    umm, what about the crown heightsers?
    Guest
    umm, what about the crown heightsers?

    what about us here in crown heights who host the israeli girls year after year every Tishrei. The moving out of bedrooms, the shower line, the flooded basements, the extra expense for food….been there, done that!

    I Don't Think You Changed
    Guest
    I Don't Think You Changed

    It was what’s in it for you.

    Now that you have your own Family. You don’t really want to be the host. you want to avoid it

    please Explain??

    # 4
    Guest
    # 4

    what are you talking about ..that is the most ridiculous thing – really ?!? soo offensive ..you must think you are better than us ..where does that attitude come from

    Before you start bashing!!
    Guest
    Before you start bashing!!

    My daughter is now in one of these Sems and was told by her hanholo .. Sem does not close down for Shabbos.. One may always stay and they will arrange all her Shabbis needs.. So don’t bash the Sems… It’s a peer pressure thing to go to families on an off Shabbos…

    I can relate...
    Guest
    I can relate...

    As a camp counselor we totally used to show up late to suppers- hours late! Sometimes cancelled a few hrs later too… Totally didnt realize or apreciate the work that was put into hosting us. Only yrs later after starting my own family did i look back in horror about my lack of menchlichkeit back then- and i wish someone who have pointed it out and taught me back then- we were a group of normal , good girls – yet we somehow lacked this basic respect in this area.

    Simple simon
    Guest
    Simple simon

    Each group should bring a check from the seminary to the host family.
    By the way look what the girls do for the families.
    Help with children read books ect. They are not coming for a free ride. The girls are not selfish. They are a big help to the families they go to. Kol hakavod. The girls are great

    noone
    Guest
    noone

    Nobody here seems to understand the stresses of raising a family on Israel. It is quite strange that the seminaries expect girls to arrange their own shabbosos, and the host families have to cover the costs. As they stay how do you live in Israel with $100,00? Come with $1M

    Well thanks for nothing!
    Guest
    Well thanks for nothing!

    As a mother of one of the girls in seminary in Israel this year, I am thankful that I gave her a list of relatives and close family freinds to tap into! With there family’s on the other side of the world, most of these girls away from home for such a long period of time, for the first time in their lives, and this is the welcome to Eretz Yisroel they get!!!! U did it, the class befor u did it and the class after these girls will do it!!! If u can’t greet them with open arms and… Read more »

    Above and Beyond
    Guest
    Above and Beyond

    The hachnosas orchim of crown-heightsers year round, Israelis, and many others is truly amazing!! It is a great form of tzedakah and ahavas chinam. May Hashem bentch every one of you hostesses and hosts with brochos ad bli dai! Gedola Tzedaka shemikareves es hageula

    you have learn only part of the lesson
    Guest
    you have learn only part of the lesson

    I live in Eretz Isroel and have seminary girls coming to us for shabes for over 15 years, besides eveything you wrote, there are three more points that are very important: 1) usually the girls call and ask for 2 girls to come, and then they call again and ask if they can add another 2, and some times until friday it happends that they appear with up to 10 girls. 2) most of the girls (over 60%) do not lift a finger to help not even take her own plate from the table. Some of them while we are… Read more »

    The Point
    Guest
    The Point

    The point is, have some mentschlichkeit and respect. Don’t call on Thursday, call on Sunday. Say thank you, offer to help, speak with respect when asking on the phone. Examples: “Hey, so a bunch of my friends and I need a place to crash…” “I know its last minute but could I stay for shabbos, Oh great so im gonna bring a friend too”… followed by a call half hour later “so my friends heard I found a place and they are gonna eat with us by you, that’s fine right?” The argument of “they pay $18,000, take it up… Read more »

    Is the SEMINARY at all being questioned on this?? Parents are you there??
    Guest
    Is the SEMINARY at all being questioned on this?? Parents are you there??

    I am involved in one of the Moisdos in Israel and the 18,000.00 dollar cost for seminary amounts to approx. 336.00 shekel a day for each girl! (Calculation based on actual months in the Seminary if they would actually be there for a full 7 days each week. ) At that exorbitant fee, how is it that the Sem. is not providing the best of the best in room and board every single day including Shabbos so that the girls are not in this awkward situation and as well imposing on families who are themselves struggling day to day? We… Read more »

    missing the point
    Guest
    missing the point

    The author is saying that as a married person the tables are turned. She now realises what a challenge it was to be a guest at someones place. She only now has an appreciation of what a hostess goes through. I do not think she is saying this in a resentful manner.

    #16
    Guest
    #16

    Good of you for all you do! But we also learn when it is not with a full heart……. is it the full Mitzvah? Your also allowed with kind words to ask the girls to help you. We are all responsible to be Mechanech them.

    This would be a good time
    Guest
    This would be a good time

    to discuss the way Israeli’s treat us when they come for Tishrei!

    unreal
    Guest
    unreal

    The seminaries must take over responsibility for Shabbosos. Either pay the hosting families or require the girls to stay home. It’s one thing to have guests for a meal, but to sleep over, in tiny Israeli apartments? Wow

    my daughter just came back
    Guest
    my daughter just came back

    in other seminaries in Israel it is the same problem finding a place for shabbos and yomtov BUT the dorms and kitchen never closes and the girls have the option of staying in the sem to eat even on yomtov and PESACH, except they like to go out to see families.

    hostesses
    Guest
    hostesses

    Love when girls come. Usually they offer to make the salads which is a tremendous help cuz me and daughters are worn out by friday night. I stopped making their beds. They put the sheets on and strip them motzei shabbos. That took off a big stress! You can even ask them to bring their own and you won’t have extra laundry. Often they do the dishes and we feel like we are the guests. Once a girl polished my silver!!! You have to learn to accept their help or ask for it. Sometime you just can’t have guests. Thats… Read more »

    Truth is..
    Guest
    Truth is..

    Going to seminary is the stage in life when girls begin to grow out of their self-absorbed years as a child. It’s the natural process. Some more and some less but that’s the reality. It’s part of growing up. And like every situation, until we experience it ourselves, we don’t really get it. Like you said, only now do you understand the other side of the picture, and they will too one day. Regarding doing things with resentment, no one appreciates your actions because your resentment is felt by the recipient. If you’re not able to host. Say no. If… Read more »

    The whole Israel seminary thing is out of control
    Guest
    The whole Israel seminary thing is out of control

    They DO NOT turn out: -Nicer. -More responsible. -Kinder -Hard working -Disciplined -Grateful -Capable -Talented etc. This year takes nice girls and turns them into selfish brats; even their ”chasidishkeit’ is selfish. Its basically a year of adventure on their parents back and the back of these weekend hosts in Israel. It teaches an ‘es kumt mir’ attitude, does not help engender fiscal responsibility, kindness or self-reliance. They become good travelers and excellent moochers. Thank G-d, my husband had the sense to resist this trend and my daughters studied and grew in seminaries that were cheaper, closer and fostered more… Read more »

    Don't agree
    Guest
    Don't agree

    I too live in Israel and have seminary girls at our house. (this week for example.) we always love hosting and the girls are always appreciative.

    I don't get it
    Guest
    I don't get it

    Is this entire article about asking girls not to shower an hour before shabbos?

    Austrailia
    Guest
    Austrailia

    Well, I am glad that I sent my daughter to Melbourne for Sem. She came to town without knowing a soul there. No relatives etc.. However, she grew close to many families and had more invitations for Shabbos & Yom Tov than she could accept.

    No need to judge or ridicule those who find it difficult....
    Guest
    No need to judge or ridicule those who find it difficult....

    I doubt it is a lack of Hachnossas Orchim or that people do not want to grab every chance to do a Mitzvah – People are sometimes quietly extending themselves in so many ways while going through many unseen challenges…
    The point is really as stated over and over again – besides the fact that the girls should definitely be sensitive, polite, appreciative, and helpful – what is going on with our chinuch and value system?
    Good to read the above comments # 18 (and 26 even if a bit blunt – the truth sometimes is harder to face…)

    RABBI CHITRIK ALWAYS MAKES THAT POINT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR- APPRECIATE- BRING SOMETHING- CLEAN DISHES- HELP COOK!
    Guest
    RABBI CHITRIK ALWAYS MAKES THAT POINT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR- APPRECIATE- BRING SOMETHING- CLEAN DISHES- HELP COOK!
    This is for the parents of sem girls...
    Guest
    This is for the parents of sem girls...

    Am I the only one who understood that this article is addressed to the mothers and fathers, asking them to explain to their daughters what being a good guest means? Money, help, and hot water are in short supply almost everywhere. Asking to bring an entire crew of friends along is impolite. The article is quite helpful as a teaching tool.

    Nothing to do with seminary
    Guest
    Nothing to do with seminary

    The author is pointing out the behavior of girls these days. I am running a day camp for over 25 years. The “me” generation gets worse each year. It is not even totally their fault. They are so engrossed in themselves and making sure to have a great time so they can tell all their friends , that they simply are not looking at reality! I do not pity myself , I pity them. They will be so shocked when they EY”H get married and raise a family. That is what the author is saying.

    Ask for help
    Guest
    Ask for help

    Something I learned from being a guest and from hosting.
    It may be uncomfortable to help the guest, you don’t know the language, you afraid to do it wrong, etc. etc. I have been on that end. BUT as a host, in order to enjoy myself and not feel taken advantage of and resentful, if they ask what they can do, I TELL THEM exactly how I can use their help.

    When you clear the table, ask for two girls to help you clear. Gently make them aware that you need their help. They will happily help.

    ask for help
    Guest
    ask for help

    as a crown heighters who has lots of guests often, and bein young so no kids to help me,
    ive learned toask and accept eh guests help. so i enjoy them, adn they enjoy coming.
    no need to feel resentful (although i dont think the author did)
    its training the boys mostly– to help out

    you decide
    Guest
    you decide

    Maybe when it gets too much for you, say no. Speak to your husband or mashpia and come up with a plan like having girls every second week or once a month etc, when you actually able to enjoy their company. They should not come before you taking care of your own family, and yourself of course so you will be a better giver.
    I dont think the girls mean to put extra stress on families so you are not doing them a favor by sayingyes when you are not up to it.

    Stranded on shabbos in sem
    Guest
    Stranded on shabbos in sem

    I was in seminary in Lod a few years ago and we were absolutely NOT ALLOWED to stay in seminary over shabbos. It was incredibly stressful if you didn’t have family or close friends you could go to. We often ended up crashing in nice single girls apts and buying our own food just because we couldn’t find families to go to, and because it was also incredibly awkward to ask strangers to host us. We did bring gifts, and help etc. but it was awful being desperate as the end of the week came closer and you didn’t have… Read more »

    Say no!
    Guest
    Say no!

    I grew up in an open house … Guests all the time . As the dear in my family I had to help out a lot. It was very hard work . Now I’m married and I so no to guests . I’m burnt out. My husband is also the oldest of a very large family so he had similar experience to me. We are so glad to be on the same page and sit around the shabbos yom tov table just us and our kids. Living in CH people really put the pressure on us and try to put… Read more »

    You Do NOT need to say yes
    Guest
    You Do NOT need to say yes

    If you choose to be a host, you know what it comes with

    Just say NO if it is inconvienient!

    As for shluchim& day camp:
    Counselors are very often treated like slave labor…you need to feed these girls/boys on shabbos! The chutzpah is of the shluchim not to take care of their staff & rely on the community!

    How Ironic!
    Guest
    How Ironic!

    Not that the author is wrong however I do find it ironic coming from an “Israeli” being that the tides have turned so did the attitude. I think as Crown Heighters, we all know the expense, exhaustion and hassle that comes with guest especially tishrei, (yet the amount of chessed that goes into is something that always amazes me.) Lets not forget all that comes with opening your home and life to total strangers. Even though many guest who at times feel it is owed to them. Now I still feel its a great mitzva and amazing thing that happens… Read more »

    It's up to the Parents and the Sem/Yeshiva
    Guest
    It's up to the Parents and the Sem/Yeshiva

    Tell your kids to be polite, bring something (even 20 NIS worth of flowers) as a token of appreciation, be helpful and be neat. Most students in Eretz Yisrael like the opportunity of going away once in a while – THE SEM/YESHIVA SHOULD BE OPEN AND HAVE FOOD EVERY SHABBOS because it isn’t always easy for the kids to find places to go so often and/or for so long (Sukkos!!). Parents can help with the phone calls from a distance if you have friends/relatives, and there are also many affordable gift delivery places (flowers/chocolate) in Israel that you can call… Read more »

    Well, then
    Guest
    Well, then

    you and your friends were kind of selfish. Because I also live in Israel, and I also learned here in seminary, and we ALWAYS asked our hosts what time would be convenient for us to come. We also tried to shower before we came, and if it was a long trip we asked the hosts if we should shower before we came or if we could shower there. They always gave honest answers. We did bring the standard gifts, because we didn’t really know what else to bring, and we felt bad for displacing the kids, if we weren’t sharing… Read more »

    Are you a yeras shemayim
    Guest
    Are you a yeras shemayim

    If you believe in g-d you wouldn’t worry about the money aspect He pays you back for anything spent lekavod shabbos

    To #43
    Guest
    To #43

    You don’t know halacha – asei shabatcha kchol v’al titztarech el habriyot.
    Plus take a look in hilchot tzedaka and the Magen Avraham on Orach Chaim 242.
    There are only very specific circumstances where you rely on Hashem paying you back for what you spend lekavod Shabbat, and also there has to be HOW Hashem can pay you back b’derech hateva. If you want to be mechabed Shabbat but you are short on money then it’s already in the geder of l’hamit b’chol kdei l’chabed et hashabbat.

    my daughter was unique
    Guest
    my daughter was unique

    When she was in Tsfat she noted the poverty and organized a drive to buy beds and basics for the families that she was asdigned to do chesed with. Train your children to look out for someone in pain or need and reach out and make a real difference even if it is not the norm.

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