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Thursday, 7 Kislev, 5783
  |  December 1, 2022

Learning Practically Ended at Yeshivos Last Week

From the COLlive inbox: A Yeshiva bochur writes about a reality that parents don't know about, the hanhala doesn't deal with, and the bochurim themselves engage in without a choice. Full Story

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Bachur
January 18, 2022 8:44 pm

Thank You for expressing your thoughts. You bring a valid point. Why are we burdening our young with who can get the better job, where , how.And then on top of then on top of that the ones who are selected to be head counselors need to be busy recruiting staff. What are we promoting here?
Lets band together to push the date later so the boys have some peace of mind.

#chofadar
Reply to  Bachur
January 19, 2022 12:50 am

#brunoy #chofadar

Please bear with me
Reply to  Bachur
January 19, 2022 2:47 am

As many of the commenters have noted, the “camp phase” lasts only two weeks in yeshiva, after which the bachurim return to their yeshiva routine. It’s true, the head staff from the various mainstream camps are usually quick to select their group of staff. If so, one may ask, what’s the article saying? How does yeshiva “end” on yud shevat if it returns to normal very soon afterward? I think implicit in the article is a much larger issue. Granted many bachurim (and presumably girls) find their camps easily and quickly. But each year, more and more bachurim are unable… Read more »

Longer
Reply to  Please bear with me
January 19, 2022 10:58 am

It lasts more the 2 weeks and after that yeshiva is basically over

Your solution is ridiculous
Reply to  Please bear with me
January 19, 2022 12:35 pm

Are you seriously suggesting that camps just ceases to exist (at least in their current, two-month format) because some yeshiva kids are harmed by the anxiety caused by camps?

By the same token, because some people who want to become teachers but can’t find teaching positions, we should shut down schools. Do better buddy

Yeah, but....
Reply to  Please bear with me
January 20, 2022 3:00 am

It may be 2 weeks, but then the frenzy for Purim and then Pesach mivtzoim takes over. It’s very hard to focus on the present.

What's the big deal
Reply to  Bachur
January 19, 2022 3:21 pm

Im not sure who this article is speaking to The good bouchrim who learn all day get accepted to camps right away Most of them dont even apply they get asked to go and they take the job right away The bad bouchrim whos actions speak for themselves dont get in to camp right away or at all And yes they spend hours of seder speaking about camp But they dont learn anyway So no one loses out the ones that learn learn anyway and the ones that dont now have something to speak about I dont get the big… Read more »

Not everything is binary
Reply to  What's the big deal
January 19, 2022 5:06 pm

There are some moderate bachurim

Camps needs time to plan
January 18, 2022 8:56 pm

Girls camps started from the beginning of shvat, sometimes earlier. It’s hard to run a good camp and takes a lot of planning, it takes time, if you don’t want to be thinking about camp this early maybe go on merkos shluches or be fine with a subpar camp experience.
Schools start applications around purim, it’s logical that camps start 2 months earlier, especially considering the logistical challenges of hiring/running a camp are much more complex then accepting bachurim.

Priorities
January 18, 2022 9:05 pm

Bochurim literally spend more time thinking about their summer plans then who they are going to marry and spend the rest of their life with

Basically
Reply to  Priorities
January 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Reality is, their mother decided for them who they’ll marry so why should they think about it? Make them more insane? More sanity in summer plans then marriage

TOU. CHE
Reply to  Basically
January 20, 2022 1:22 am

Don’t think anyone has EVER said it more real than you.
Nough said

Anin
Reply to  Priorities
January 18, 2022 11:42 pm

Ye, that’s true.
I went out with a Bochur for a while, and he kept on pushing off the proposal, and after a while I confronted him about it and he said it’s because he was busy with camp.
That baffled me.

So true
Reply to  Anin
January 19, 2022 12:45 pm

I once had to turn down a guy because he was to obsessed with his camp, and I thought if this what he prioritize then he is not for me.
Must say I dodged a bullet there

Lol
Reply to  Priorities
January 19, 2022 10:58 am

Sad but in some cases true

What used to be....
January 18, 2022 9:09 pm

Right after pesach this was going on. Like 10 – 15 years ago. Then it backed up to purim. Now it’s yud shevat… good luck where its heading next if someone doesnt do something to stop this. Now for the sake of your sanity: you do your hishtadlus and let Hashem take care of the rest. Where you are meant to be, you will be there regardless. To drive your mind insane “to be the first” might even become a miserable summer. where as being “the last minute job acceptance”, might be a memorable summer that you’ll always remember. remember… Read more »

Oh pls
January 18, 2022 9:13 pm

stop kvetching and go back to learning
Figure out which camp you are going to and move on
why does it have to be an ongoing kerfuffle?

Bachur
Reply to  Oh pls
January 18, 2022 9:38 pm

Can you try to understand what some one else is saying ? maybe try asking around if this is a real problem before just dismissing.

Wow
Reply to  Oh pls
January 19, 2022 3:50 am

There’s someone who can’t get out of their own head.
I was I. Yeshiva 20 years ago when this all started after pesach. The pressure was on. That’s all you thought about all day. Moving it back to yud shevat is criminal.
I guess the camp directors think that yeshiva is just a place where bochrim go to wait between camps becuase camps can’t run all year.

This sounds quite self absorbed
January 18, 2022 9:14 pm

The full time learning schedule doesn’t work for all bochurim, many thrive off this kind of healthy, chassidish fun and excitement.
For some in fact, it’s exactly this that keeps their sanity intact through months of 15 hr days of learning.

Then there are the camps who need time to prepare a good program.

Like others said, you can always do something else with your summer, but try to keep other people’s reality in mind.

You missed the point
Reply to  This sounds quite self absorbed
January 18, 2022 10:24 pm

He’s not talking about the planning of programs trips activities teams themes and other fun exciting stuff.

He’s talking about the hopes dashed as kids battle to get a position that accords them the desired social status, all while making, breaking, and shaking groups -switching that guy for the other character and keeping it a secret from him who we don’t want in our group…

All of this is exacerbated and stretched to painful lengths when the topic is brought up irresponsibly early.

Now reread the article.

Wonderful
January 18, 2022 9:16 pm

I also want to add the following. The night of yud shvat I asked my Shiur Daled brother what their program was for the following day. He told me they didn’t have to be in school until late afternoon. How ridiculous is that? Of all days, on yud shvat, the bochurim shouldn’t be together? (They were supposed to daven in 770 and find a ride to the ohel)

Ykth!!! תשפ״ב🥂🥂
Reply to  Wonderful
January 19, 2022 12:14 am

School?!?! ok?!?! I’m in Shiur Daled and I think we’re old enough to understand that yud shvat is a very holy day I mean I think 🤔

Mr. S
Reply to  Ykth!!! תשפ״ב🥂🥂
January 19, 2022 12:32 am

You’re in Shiur daled aye?
I wouldn’t advertise the possession of a non yeshiva compliant device, If I were you…

Camps
Reply to  Mr. S
January 19, 2022 7:33 am

Why is that your business

Computer
Reply to  Mr. S
January 19, 2022 9:15 am

Believe it or not @Mr. S, collive is accessible via a computer…

Lol
Reply to  Mr. S
January 19, 2022 12:58 pm

Thanks mom

To late
Reply to  Mr. S
January 19, 2022 1:02 pm

It’s a lost battle

Think before you speak
Reply to  Mr. S
January 19, 2022 2:15 pm

Btw not all Shiur daled bochrim dorm
Some of them sleep at home now if you have a problem with them having a computer in their home that’s one thing but in general plz think before u talk thx

Give me a break
January 18, 2022 9:22 pm

It sounds like someone doesn’t have what to do for the summer

Bochur
Reply to  Give me a break
January 19, 2022 2:30 pm

Oh, I’m sorry “mr evrething was handed to me on a gold platter” maybe try to understand that not everyone is able to get a summer job with the limited space that there is! There is only so meny shlichus and overnight/day camp job opportunities, and thats being filled up by MULTIPLE grades of boys! Let me make the most plain and simple breakdown i can for your insensitive not understand brain: the usual boys grade has approximately 700+ people, for staff and and shlichus opportunities, now we are talking about 6 grades here!!! (From masivta till shiur daled zal,… Read more »

Points to ponder
January 18, 2022 9:30 pm

Allow me to start off by saying that what happens every year is a complete and total catastrophe, and every Bochur knows it. But with that said, there’s some points to consider. 1) Facts is, Bochurim are nervous to get into camps, and for good reason. Every year there are a bunch of good bochurim who don’t get into camp because they either weren’t invited to a group or didn’t take initiative early enough to get themselves in. Don’t make it sound like there’s nothing to run for, the reality is that mathematically there are just not enough spots for… Read more »

Agreed 💯
Reply to  Points to ponder
January 18, 2022 11:03 pm

This is so true, smartest comment I’ve read so far, the only point I’ll add, is that there for to be more achdus between bachurim and camps in order for things to be less distracting

Agreed
Reply to  Points to ponder
January 19, 2022 12:54 am

At least like this bachurim who didn’t get accepted to a larger camp have time to figure something else out and not be stuck last minute. As well as smaller camps get a chance to find bachurim as well.

incorrect.
Reply to  Points to ponder
January 19, 2022 11:29 am

a bochur’s focus should be on yeshiva, regardless of the situation.

so starting later will help both the bochur, that cant figure his group out, or that bochur that can.

Agreed
January 18, 2022 9:30 pm

I am a parent that has a few children in the camp age . I agree , the entire January and February are consumed with camp . It take a toll on parents and kids . This year some girls camp decided to change that but other camps did not follow . It can only work if all camps together make a later date for sign up .
It would bring a lot of peace into many homes .
And will bring blessing to your camps .

Finnally
January 18, 2022 9:45 pm

The funny thing is, that creating a later start date to the recruiting is not just better for Yeshivos and bochurim, it’s better for the camp directors. Speak to any staff director and they will tell you that they will gladly start registration later if they only can, why can’t they? Because other camps start so they can’t be the last to join the hunt. But it is possible to change this equation, if all camp directors jointly agree to a later start date then the boys can have a few more days of sanity. The girls camps did it… Read more »

Total shtus
January 18, 2022 9:51 pm

The Rebbe spoke over and over about the stupidity of the 2 months summer vacation
Yeshivahs should just keep their school year over the summer

Yeshiva system
Reply to  Total shtus
January 18, 2022 11:17 pm

There has been many mesivtas that have done this, and you can ask every hanola member aa well as the bouchrim and they will all agree that this is the best decision they have made in there yeshiva.

Camps
Reply to  Yeshiva system
January 19, 2022 7:41 am

Not true at all

Camps
Reply to  Total shtus
January 19, 2022 7:34 am

#bait shemesh

Wth
Reply to  Total shtus
January 19, 2022 8:09 am

You mis the whole vort

That’s the kavana
Really you should speak about it the whole year
Preparations for the shlichus

Camp director
January 18, 2022 9:51 pm

If others agree, I will agree

Ook
Reply to  Camp director
January 18, 2022 10:04 pm

Which camp are you?

Rabbi ben dover
Reply to  Ook
January 18, 2022 11:45 pm

Yeshivas kayitz Mississippi

Where
Reply to  Rabbi ben dover
January 19, 2022 1:00 pm

What age group is that for

same
Reply to  Camp director
January 19, 2022 11:31 am

same here

High School Mom
January 18, 2022 9:57 pm

My high school daughter has already been working on camp for over a month. Our group has five girls, they only need four. Another group applied there already, where else can we try? She’s very stressed over it. I know summer plans will be finalized soon…..just in time for production practice to start!
School? What’s that?

frustrated mom
Reply to  High School Mom
January 19, 2022 7:47 am

and what about when the camp directors string the girls along for weeks and then say sorry we took last years counsellor.

Zal bochur
January 18, 2022 10:28 pm

A hundred percent. Hanhala could stop this madness

From a previous head counselor
January 18, 2022 10:43 pm

Every year Yeshivos request and push that hiring of staff wait till after pesach or later, yet each year head counselors receive calls and messages from Hanholla member at the beginning of Shevat begging them to start accepting staff! The reason is simple, the head counselors need to be hired in Teves so they can start planning and working on camp, once head staff are confirmed and word spreads (as it always somehow does) Bochurim already fully immerse themselves in camp talk, at that point the quickest way to finish it and allow Bochurim to learn again is by accepting… Read more »

Anonymous
January 18, 2022 10:54 pm

I was the a head Counsler last year, and I 100 percent agree, it took over my job in yeshiva way too early. I hope this actually makes a difference, and stops the madness

Just another distraction
January 18, 2022 10:55 pm

Bochurim are always looking for distractions. It’s just a part of life in yeshiva. If an interesting guy walks into zal or something out of the norm happens during seder at least 50% of heads will look up (and that’s being generous). Saying that camps should start hiring and prep for the summer at pesach sheini is like saying that Sunday lag baomer parades should start being prepared on Friday afternoon. It’s just not practical. Overnight camps (especially the big ones) are a huge operation that require months of prep not only by the head staff. Besides, even if an… Read more »

ישר ולענין
Reply to  Just another distraction
January 19, 2022 9:46 am

The reality as it is…

Right on target!
Reply to  Just another distraction
January 22, 2022 7:56 pm

“Why is it that we have all of these interesting JLI courses for people who are not yet frum but for bochurim in Yeshiva, we are still teaching the same way as we were 100 years ago?! I believe that if learning was being taught in a more interactive and interesting manner, this problem – along with many others – would be easily solved.”

Berel
January 18, 2022 10:55 pm

In brunya we didn’t have this issue.

Problem not solved
Reply to  Berel
January 19, 2022 1:45 am

That’s because they have yeshiva through the summer. The only zals that do that are in brunoy, LA, and the new zal in Nyack. Everywhere else still has the problem.

brunoy bochur
Reply to  Berel
January 19, 2022 11:33 am

we had the issue for 1 of the 2 years…

From a previous head staff
January 18, 2022 10:56 pm

The kids need something to look forward to.

Resident
January 18, 2022 10:57 pm

Maybe rabbi bistritzky , rabbi Gershon Avtzon and other inspiring , young that understand can help with this ? Please hear the pain in the letter ! Let’s act !

Eli
January 18, 2022 10:58 pm

I 100% agree.

Cw
January 18, 2022 10:59 pm

Very hard for me to focus on my learning after getting offered so many jobs.

True, but…
January 18, 2022 11:07 pm

What you are saying is true.
instead of trying to fix the system, figure out a way to make it work for you, yes there is an issue, but practically it’s not going to get fixed.
There is no reason That you need it to occupy half your year, you can decide what you’re doing and go back to learning.
Hatzlach

Sruly's Friend
January 18, 2022 11:07 pm

Hey Sruly don’t worry, I have a great opening for you with a great group, just speak to me during lunch break and I’ll give you all the details.

Shmuly, not Sruly
Reply to  Sruly's Friend
January 18, 2022 11:58 pm

Hey *Sruly’s* friend,

I wanted to come over during lunch break but you somehow always seemed distracted and busy.

When I finally cornered you during breakfast the next day you just mumbled something vague and didn’t really tell me all the details.

It’s ok, I understand when I’m not wanted. Maybe I’ll just go to some sub-par day camp or somewhere. Maybe I’ll go visit my uncle in Montreal. Or maybe I’ll just stay home for two long months of Camp Gan Netflix.

Twas nice knowing you.

Your classmate, Sam (formerly Shmuly)

I love you, Shmuly/Sam
Reply to  Shmuly, not Sruly
January 19, 2022 10:45 am

You’re smart, self aware and have a great sense of humor. I hope this system doesn’t chew you up and spit you out. Would be a terrible waste.

Signed, former reject

A bochur
January 18, 2022 11:07 pm

There are bigger problems with the yeshiva system then this tiny little issue of camps. The yeshiva system needs many many fixes.

Fix #1 – giving out unreasonable knasim isn’t going to encourage bochurim to be happy and involved in Yeshiva

How big
Reply to  A bochur
January 18, 2022 11:15 pm

How big was your kenas and what was it for lol

A bochur
Reply to  How big
January 19, 2022 11:14 am

$200 for missing seder

The Frierdiker Rebbe
Reply to  A bochur
January 19, 2022 3:33 am

….spoke out against financial knasim. There was an excellent article in the Nshei Journal quoting the F’R about this topic. Somehow the hanhalos and Rebbeim missed this directive – or are selective in following our Rebbe’s advice.

U-huh
Reply to  The Frierdiker Rebbe
January 19, 2022 12:39 pm

Y’know the Rebbe, more than once, encouraged hanhalla to give kenasim.

The Frierdiker Rebbe was against giving bachurim non-sefarim prizes for excelling in Yeshiva. Regarding that, i’ve never heard, “Somehow the hanhalos and Rebbeim missed this directive – or are selective in following our Rebbe’s advice.” (Btw, yeshivos do give prizes because, again, the rebbe recommended it.)

True
Reply to  A bochur
January 19, 2022 1:03 pm

And making ridiculous rules to favor 1 bocher and not another

Same by girls
January 18, 2022 11:10 pm

This goes on by Chitrik as well, but even earlier. Chanukah time the head counselors of the elite camps are secretly picked. Then head staff are secretly picked. The stress and anxiety of the entire drama is so unfair!

Your fellow girl (ys)
Reply to  Same by girls
January 19, 2022 12:32 am

Giiiiiiirrl you so right we also have that problem. Bochurim think they have all the problems, we have problems to. You think it’s easy trying to get into chitrik. I answered that I was a knife when they asked if you were a kitchen utensil what would you be, and they said I am really sharp. Like I get the joke but accept me. So to all the bochurs out there thinking, oy all these camp problems you should really remember the shidduch crisis.
I rest my case
Ya girl
Liba

Supporting one another
Reply to  Your fellow girl (ys)
January 19, 2022 1:53 am

Thank you so much for your beautiful comment I really think your making a really important point here, we go in as knifes and come out as spoons I really appreciate your support. I’m thinking about making a support group to discuss these issues I really think boys are out of touch with realty with all these camps m

There is a bigger issue
January 18, 2022 11:10 pm

This is just a result of the bigger issue. The real issue is the Bochurim are not involved in yeshiva and therefore whenever there’s anything exciting It occupies a bochers day, If you were actually interested in learning you can stop for a little bit to figure out your summer and once it’s figured out go back to learning there is no reason why after people are excepted they need to spend the next six months thinking about it.
THERE IS NO PRESSURE FROM CAMP.

You're wrong
Reply to  There is a bigger issue
January 18, 2022 11:36 pm

Yes there pressure.
I am a head counselor, and if you try to push me off, we will find someone else.
These tiny Bochurim don’t scare me.

We are all on the rebbes team
Reply to  You're wrong
January 18, 2022 11:57 pm

I am also a head counselor and THERE IS NO PRESSURE FROM CAMP

Yes there is.
Reply to  We are all on the rebbes team
January 19, 2022 11:04 am

You are confused. There is very good pressure. You’re probably just head counselor of some dinky camp…

same here
Reply to  We are all on the rebbes team
January 19, 2022 11:38 am

the Rebbe’s counselors!!!

What???
Reply to  There is a bigger issue
January 19, 2022 11:38 am

2 issues wont make the first not an issue.

Shlichus
January 18, 2022 11:11 pm

I couldn’t agree more about the fact that yeshivas every year get destroyed by the “camp talk.” Parents pay thousands for there sons to go to yeshiva, and the entire system must change. When a boucher reaches shuir daled as soon as the camp talk pauses the shlichus conversation starts. It goes the entire year without prevail. Even the best kids the ones who learn all day get dragged into these conversations. There mind isn’t set because they are worried about next year and the future. On behave of bouchrim that have been through this its time to change this.… Read more »

Ironic
Reply to  Shlichus
January 19, 2022 1:09 am

I applaud the writer of this article for attempting to stop camp talk in yeshiva by having everyone talk about whether we should be talking about camp or not.
Tomorrow morning Zal is assured to be talking about this article instead of camp

What???
Reply to  Ironic
January 19, 2022 11:40 am

thats one day of talking not from yud shvat till the end of yeshiva.

Talk or Do
January 18, 2022 11:20 pm

Seems like there are many underlying (or overlying) points involved. Maybe this can be a learning and growing experience too. There’s responsibility to do one thing now and there’s another thing competitive and exciting (or disappointing) upcoming. How to have the two co-exist? That’s a life skill to be learned. That’s part of growing into a mature adult It’s certainly not impossible or unrealistic to learn diligently, keep seder, while planning for and being excited about something ahead. Time management. Organizational skill. Discipline. Being present… C’mon. Dig a little deeper. Your mind can straddle lots. It’s going to have to… Read more »

#presentmode
Reply to  Talk or Do
January 19, 2022 11:41 am

BE PRESENT.

Camps
January 18, 2022 11:35 pm

Camps should pay staff more

omain!!!
Reply to  Camps
January 19, 2022 11:42 am

what else?

Bochur
January 18, 2022 11:38 pm

The reason why we think so early about camp is because yeshiva is boring

True
Reply to  Bochur
January 19, 2022 1:07 pm

And long

Shaye
January 18, 2022 11:39 pm

All I’m saying is that when I called up Brunoy to speak to staff, they were more than happy to agree to come. Yes it’s true this is the best camp in the world, but still.. I thought I was getting Chassidishe Bochurim. From the fact that they agreed so fast shows that in truth it can’t be that bad what they did.

I rest my case.

Mendy
Reply to  Shaye
January 19, 2022 3:04 pm

Last year when I called brunoy they did not want to talk about camp till purim!
They decided to be chasidish on other people’s cheshbon.
Every year the directors are putting in months of work to ensure the kids have a fun and chasidishe summer and there’s no reason a few bochorim who think they know better have to give them a hard time!

A bocher who's living in a yeshiva
January 18, 2022 11:39 pm

I’ve personally been rejected from a camp this I can tell you that the stress that it’s putting on my learning is terrible its not easy to learn under these circumstances

Wow
January 18, 2022 11:40 pm

As a half mom I would like to kol hakavod

Wow
Reply to  Wow
January 18, 2022 11:50 pm

As the other half I agree

Bocher
Reply to  Wow
January 18, 2022 11:50 pm

Well then kol hakavod, we will all understand and support you

We need meshiach
January 18, 2022 11:41 pm

Bochrim have to get them self together or they will frie out

Camps
Reply to  We need meshiach
January 19, 2022 7:43 am

U should become a Rosh yeshiva

Disagree
January 18, 2022 11:41 pm

U confirm and u forget about. I think this bochur doesn’t have friends
Sorry

Bochur
January 18, 2022 11:42 pm

I think you should work on your self before telling others what to do and it sounds like you don’t like your hanhala

It makes no sense
January 18, 2022 11:43 pm

It’s crazy that there is so much politics regarding camp. What is this, a seminary?!?

Anonymous
Reply to  It makes no sense
January 19, 2022 12:42 am

Obviously you were that type of person who stayed home for the whole summer…..

Are you crazy?!
Reply to  Anonymous
January 19, 2022 11:05 am

I’m was general in BOG War for 3 summers in a row. I’ve been head counselor for 3 years now. Don’t mess with me…
I’m unstoppable

From smicha bouchrim
January 18, 2022 11:47 pm

Thanks for the article, love the entertainment, really sparked a conversation keep these articles going 🙂

A REAL zal bocher
Reply to  From smicha bouchrim
January 19, 2022 12:28 am

You guys should stop trying to be super cool and go to a real yeshiva

yeshiva system
January 18, 2022 11:54 pm

the entire year of yeshiva consists of after tishrei to rosh chodesh kislev after thay there is always a farbrengen, program or yom tov coming up

From a Yeshiva mashgiach
January 18, 2022 11:54 pm

Why are so many bouchrim on col?

Ot s4
Reply to  From a Yeshiva mashgiach
January 19, 2022 12:26 am

You need a better job

Dude!
Reply to  From a Yeshiva mashgiach
January 19, 2022 12:35 am

Legendary Mashgiach!!!! I am coming to your yeshiva

Crown heights bochur
January 18, 2022 11:57 pm

I am a bochur currently, and it is disgusting what the camps do to us. They make us fight to get in, and once you actually get in and waste half your year, they treat you like garbage. I think all Bochurim should go on a strike against all camps and demand that they treat us better. Also all camp recruiting should be in Elul, so by Tishrei everyone is done with the camp conversation, and can start actually learning.

Shortsighted bochrim
Reply to  Crown heights bochur
January 19, 2022 12:47 am

The bochrim are bored they will talk about camp all year anyways,bochrim! Do u think there where camps back in stalengrad???!!!! What kind of stupidity is this?!

Ykth!!! תשפ״ב🥂🥂
January 19, 2022 12:11 am

To be honest though learning never started😬😬

Bachur
Reply to  Ykth!!! תשפ״ב🥂🥂
January 19, 2022 12:22 pm

Maybe for you. If you were a little serious about yeshivah you would learn Gemara for once!

Speak to rabbi klein
January 19, 2022 12:14 am

Rabbi yosef klein has made fighting the summer craziness his life’s work. He began with opening a real LEARNING PROGRAM for kids (see tzeireihatmimim.com), and now in his own yeshiva he is not sending his call bochrim to any camp!!! This guy has guts and his head screwed on straight. Listen here, REB YOSEF is the solution!!!

The Problem with his program Is yidish
Reply to  Speak to rabbi klein
January 19, 2022 1:37 am

Most kids don’t speak yidish today. So it’s not really addressing the issue For regular lubavitch kid’s.

Is his yeshiva in Nyack also in Yiddish? I would be surprised, since yidish is basically obsolete, and he wouldn’t get registration.

Bochurim petition
January 19, 2022 12:37 am

Last year a bochur in zal started a petition and got everyone to sign, that they wouldn’t talk about camp until after Purim at least

Thank u col!
January 19, 2022 12:41 am

Col keep it coming!!!! Thx for giving us bochrim the time of our lives!!!! On such a boring night

Berel
January 19, 2022 12:44 am

The Bochurim who learn are still going to learn, and the bochurim who bullshove are just coming up with excuses to justify their bull shoving. Camp discussions only happen at the bein on Friday and during the breaks throughout the day. Grow up. Learn during Seder, and move on. Stop with all the drama and excuses that it’s hard to learn while everyone discusses camp. Believe in G-d, wrote to the Rebbe, and maybe you’ll end up where you’re supposed to be this summer.

Lol
Reply to  Berel
January 19, 2022 6:26 pm

Tell me you’ve never been a yeshiva Bochur without telling me you’ve never been a yeshiva Bochur

Annoyed bachur
January 19, 2022 12:48 am

This is a very stupid article. Bachurim that are serious and want to learn will learn either way, and bachurim that will talk stupidity during seder will just be talking about camp now this doesn’t affect anyone I can say this from firsthand experience.

Bachur
Reply to  Annoyed bachur
January 19, 2022 12:23 pm

So true thank you!

Bochur
January 19, 2022 12:51 am

My question is that if you think you are standing with all other bochrim your wrong we love to shmuz and your that guy that sits in the back with your books and is like wait one second I didn’t apply to camp you need to stop putting words in to other bochrims mouth

Fellow bochur
January 19, 2022 1:01 am

One point I would like to add: The problem is real everyone knows, and those that ignore it just comes back to haunt them, now pushing off the staff recruiting date is not gonna fix the problem, instead of this happening now it will happen in 1/2 months we have to find a permanent solution, for example: The camp directors speak to the hanhola and THEY choose which Bochur should be able to go to that camp and the group will not be made by bochurim but by hanhola, the advantage is clear 1) the bochurim would get more involved… Read more »

Well said!
Reply to  Fellow bochur
January 19, 2022 8:55 am

It should be like bochur shlichus (and in fact that’s what it really is).

Sruly's classmate of many years
January 19, 2022 1:06 am

Sirusly “sruly'”?
You known that’s not the problem,
No one that actually wants to learn talks about camp, (besides the week of yud shvat)
The problem is that your looking for an excuse to tell the mashgiach why you’re not learning, there’s no problem if you’re having a hard time focusing during seder, it’s normal, but don’t blame it on camps, and there’s definitely no need to share this with the entire lubavitch.
shiur daled thanks you very much for the entertainment

Not shiur daled
Reply to  Sruly's classmate of many years
January 19, 2022 2:07 am

I really think it’s important for me to put it out there I’m not in shuir daled I’m in semicha thank you

The Rebbe warned everything!
January 19, 2022 1:15 am

The first year Rabbi Moshe Lazar wanted to open camp he came with the idea to the Rebbe and the Rebbe told him “now is the time of learning, after Pesach we’ll talk” (obviously paraphrasing).

The above was about opening camp how much more so for hiring staff there is absolutely no need to hire staff before Pesach! Nothing about planning camp revolves around the counselors and learning teachers.

And to all those unsmart comments that you get hired and move on we both know that camp is going to be on your head for the next 4 moths.

Camp registration
January 19, 2022 3:23 am

Wow so to whichever bochur that said THC is the reason why camps are interrupting learning at mainstream yeshivas rather then more relaxed yeshivas, then they can’t come with complaints why some people are accepted as counselors whilst others only as canteen staff, so if you would spend time during zman learning rather then affiliating yourselves with higher positions, you will have a higher chance of succeeding with yeshiva.

All the comments
January 19, 2022 6:26 am

Why are there so many comments from bochurim? Do they have access to smart phones in yeshiva? If yes, that’s a disgrace to what tomchei temimim is all about. A bocher should be totally involved in learning. Have a 5 minute conversation about where you going for camp and then MOVE ON. If this comments is too much for bocherim to handle maybe you should look into going to a more suitable yeshiva for your standards like the half day learning programs instead of sitting there a full day claiming to be a “good” mainstream bocher who literally can’t open… Read more »

A logical Bucher
January 19, 2022 7:41 am

Agreed this whole camp thing should start later don’t tell me that camp needs time to figure out who their staff are if it literally takes 2 weeks from when it open until it closes it just makes more sense if it would open during pesach break that why there no distraction at all because buchrim are anyways sitting at home bored spacing out on whatapp so then would be a perfect time for them to do something. And even if head staff are picked by Teves people won’t start thinking about it if they know they can’t get in… Read more »

So true
January 19, 2022 7:43 am

I have been out of yeshiva for several years now. However this was happening in my days talking 8+ years ago.

Camps
January 19, 2022 7:44 am

Why do camps pay 100 dollars month to staff I still don’t get it

KOOL-AID CENTRAL
Reply to  Camps
January 19, 2022 10:57 am

Sounds like you look at camp as a job. the rebbes employees don’t need a paycheck. It’s there as a little tip from the director.

ur looking at it the wrong way
Reply to  KOOL-AID CENTRAL
January 19, 2022 2:08 pm

your right you dont need a paycheck but the rebbe never asked the directors to treat there staff like garbage

It's a Shlichus after all...
Reply to  Camps
January 19, 2022 12:48 pm

Bc your doing Shlichus and you don’t really need money at this age they say…

Kool-Aid
January 19, 2022 8:18 am

While this discussion may be fun, I would like to put one thing out there. The shlichus of buchrim, especially those too young for merkoz shlichus, is to inspire the rebbes children in (affiliated) Gan Yisroels. To write an op-Ed bashing the hanhala and buchrim for not getting in the way of the excitement of fulfilling this holy task is mind blowing. The only reason buchrim are in yeshiva is in order to prepare to give yourself over to the rebbes initiatives and in turn to the rebbe himself. To imply that discussing the ultimate goal of why we are… Read more »

Me2
January 19, 2022 8:35 am

Would just like to put it out there- that this is a universal issue!
But a point I would like to make that may not be the focus but is important- a chassidishe yom tov!?!?
What would the Alter Rebbe say had he heard that his yartzheit was a day spent in stress and strife. Yud shvat is a day celebrating ahavas yisroel- wait till yud beis.
Thank you for listening:)

Where are the Rabbonim?
January 19, 2022 9:27 am

The Rabbonim she make a Psak that camp registration can only open after Pesach.
Any camp that negates this psak will not be approved by the Rabbonim. Sorted.

Not shiur daled
January 19, 2022 10:32 am

These days the problem is as bad as it gets with camps in yeshiva we think it will be better but when we get to camp the mikvah is worst

HATZLOCHO IN ZMAN
January 19, 2022 10:52 am

Every bochur must learn the Sicha about Hatzlocho in Zman (Chof Shvat 5730 – Toras Menachem volume 59 page 186). The mashpiim should farbreng about it, since it is very much applicable to each bochur on a very practical level in many areas. After Yud Shvat Hagodol (Moshiach Sefer Torah), a large group of orchim from Eretz Yisroel, who were leaving back home on 20 Shvat, came to daven Mincha with the Rebbe before they went to the airport. Unexpectedly the Rebbe announced that there will be a Farbrengen right after Mincha. The Rebbe said a Maamar (with a nigun)… Read more »

Heard from Nachum Bukiet
January 19, 2022 12:33 pm

There’s a reason ספר המאמרים קיץ ת”ש begins with a מאמר in אדר.

Berel
January 19, 2022 1:53 pm

I feel you. It’s certainly a challenge. I have no idea whether it makes sense to change things or not because a lot depends on what this early planning means to camps, and then it become a values judgement, but as a yeshiva alumnus I think I can say the following: Learning doesn’t actually end in the yeshiva after shvat or nissan. There are bochurim who still learn and learn until the final bell. Sure it becomes harder as the year goes on, and no doubt the increasing distractions play a role in that, but also the reality is that… Read more »

I’m a scarred for life
January 19, 2022 3:12 pm

I’m a massive masmid but my friends are a bunch of ammei haratzim, so when they all got positions in camp while I was forced to be an assistant waiter…. Whatever is an assistant waiter?!?!?!?? Hashem yerachaim!!!!

Well Said
January 19, 2022 3:13 pm

This was absolutely an issue when I was in Yeshiva, and while there is a minority of bochurim who desperately need something to cling to out of yeshiva (because yeshiva doesn’t actually work for them and they are unhappy, but that’s a separate issue) This puts pressure on even the most focused bochurim. It’s not a 2-week phase as some commentators suggested, it’s more like 2 months. When I was in Yeshiva in London which stays open until tisha b’av and bochurim only do local day camps for 2 weeks, the fact is there was no disruption in the winter… Read more »

Conversation
January 19, 2022 3:26 pm

Camp talk is saving all those bochurim (that are having a hard time) from talking about what they usually talk about so I belive camp should start cheshvan time

Wow
January 19, 2022 5:03 pm

High school girls have been planning since Rosh chodesh Kislev. Shvat is pretty good tbh

Impressed
January 19, 2022 6:15 pm

Amazed of the superb bochorim vacbulery!!
(especially the comments:))

Smart Bochur
January 19, 2022 10:31 pm

I think camp should just start right after pesach and that would solve everything.

Genius!!!

I think there are bigger fish to fry
January 20, 2022 2:22 am

Like say following sports.
between baseball and football it covers a whole year and many bochorim at least when I was in zal waisted away their year talking about sports and not learning jack didly squat.
I think this is a bigger issue but it seems I’m outnumbered here so I could be wrong

I have an answer
January 29, 2022 6:33 pm

I think we need more travel programs in Israel for both bochurim and girls this way people won’t be so excited about going to work in the summer in camp and instead will be going to do something holy in the summer like touring Israel

#plz except bochurim in Israeli yeshivas
January 29, 2022 6:34 pm

Just because we know Hebrew better doesn’t mean we can’t work in an American camp #unjustice #helpnow #gan Yisroel montreal

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