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Wednesday, 23 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 26, 2019

    Know Your Kosher Pizza

    From the COLlive Inbox: A Crown Heights mother feels miserable after a grave Kashrus mistake, and wishes to alert fellow residents. Full Story

    Art Commissioned by the Rebbe

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    I know that store
    Guest
    I know that store

    I know that store, it’s next to Kingston and park place; always wondering how two stores can have the same name…

    yikes!
    Guest
    yikes!

    hopefully not too many ppl have ordered from there accidentally :/

    Teacher
    Guest
    Teacher

    I almost order from there for a whole class……. B”H I realized at last moment before I ordered that I had the wrong place…. I think it was the cheap price that gave it away. Besides Jews who else charges $18 a pie!

    question
    Guest
    question

    while on the topic of kashrus i have 2 questions:
    1. is it considered “worse” to eat chazer (pig) vs. eating something simple like a non kosher cracker or something? i really have no idea and always wondered this

    2. if someone has been keeping cholov yisroel but eats something ouD for whatever reason, is that a sin? of course according to chassidus it affects their soul but im wondering if it’s actually an evera? it IS kosher, just not strict standards..

    thanks to whoever knows these answers!!

    omg
    Guest
    omg

    thats terrible.. i feel bad for you but thanks for making other people aware of this….

    To #4
    Guest
    To #4

    These are loaded questions. You should ask this to your Rov and/or Mashpia.

    Kol Tuv.

    Cholov akum
    Guest
    Cholov akum

    Milk that was milked without a Jew present is rabbinically prohibited (for fear that the non jew added non kosher milk). The isur is brought in the Mishnah and shulchan aruch. There was a leniency granted in certain remote cases by R’ Moshe Feinstein , but that is now taken way out of context by many (most) orthodox Jews. The isur remains as strong as always. Being that the Torah commands us to listen to the rabbis, it wouldn’t be wrong to say it’s an aveira.

    It happened to me too
    Guest
    It happened to me too

    The same thing happened to me but boruch hashem when they told me it was only ten dollars i asked them if they were having a sale so they said no that is our price….

    Hechsher
    Guest
    Hechsher

    i suppose the delivery guy was not wearing a yarmulka, so always check that it has a hechsher and sealed.

    non cholov yisroel
    Guest
    non cholov yisroel

    It is halacha to keep chalav yisroel. Not doing so is relying on a heter. If someone does it by mistake, I suppose they are ok because it is bedieved. Not like real treif. For the other question, a cracker vs. chazer, it would depend on what the cracker is made of. But of course these questions are really for a Rav.

    Good idea for this website:
    a question and answer column daily answering halachic questions like these. (Obviously answered by a Rav) What a good use of the internet that would be!

    To #7
    Guest
    To #7

    Absolutly incorrect. There is a concept that a heiter accepted by the frum community en-masses (as you noted this is accepted by most Jews) is premissable.

    As you write:
    “The isur remains as strong as always. Being that the Torah commands us to listen to the rabbis, it wouldn’t be wrong to say it’s an aveira.”

    If that were correct, you just passeled most yidden. I hope you have the pleitzes to bear that weight.

    Proper Web presence
    Guest
    Proper Web presence

    This is why its a must for businesses to have a proper web presence!! if these stores would invest a little into online marketing they wouldn’t cause such problems

    Change the Name
    Guest
    Change the Name

    The Hechsher should be suspended for the name “Kingston” Pizza. Sorry, but Rabbonim with spines (e.g .Landau father and son) would be on top of this in a flash – probably before it came to this. The important point: A communal Rov should be concerned about what enters the mouths of his constituents, and not only to certify a source for food. This could be called “subject” orientation (the consumer, not “object” orientation (the source, or the food, which may end up anywhere, even goyishe homes who buy from the Kosher store by the same error.) This concept is connected… Read more »

    same thing happened to me
    Guest
    same thing happened to me

    googled kingston’s number and that came up, but thank G-d asked if it was kosher.

    BTDT
    Guest
    BTDT

    I assume Mom served on paper plates so she didn’t treif up her dishes. But I understand how she feels, when I was a kid I went to my non-frum cousins & my grandmother told me not to eat ANYTHING without her being there. They brought this delicious looking pizza with sliced tomatoes & offered me a slice. I “knew” they wouldn’t feed me treif so I started chowing down. It was only when i got to the crust & tasted the PEPPERONI I knew there was a problem. I thought my grandmother was going to kill me when she… Read more »

    Cholov Yisrael
    Guest
    Cholov Yisrael

    Haluvay that Lubavitcher chassidim be as careful with the issur of cutting Peyos HaRosh (as completely distinct from the issur of the other – Peyos HaZakan). It is depressing to see how short so many chassidim (tayereh und chosheveh) leave their Peyos. Yes, there is a shiur, which is as long as you can grasp it (and turn it back in, say many). But where is the hiddur in taking an “Islamic” haircut, where the beard is a stark contrast (bigger, bushier) that the Peyos HaRosh. Am issur d’Oraysah remain just that, and we are traditionally zohir (not a litvisheh… Read more »

    mottel
    Guest
    mottel

    Um… check the pizza box for a hechsher…?

    same thing almost happened to me
    Guest
    same thing almost happened to me

    called them up, ordered, asked them to deliver… then they told me their not kosher…

    Kingston Pizza
    Guest
    Kingston Pizza

    Happened to me too. My friend asked me to find their number. i googled it and a few minutes later she called me back telling me it wasn’t a kosher Kingston Pizza. They MUST change their name to avoid further mistakes like this.

    Reminder
    Guest
    Reminder

    Please ask a ROV on how to go about your kitchen! There are Shaalos that must be addressed to a Rov!
    As far as Cholov Isroel is concerned, I believe that it is generally the opinion of Lubavitcher Rabbonim that for Lubavitchers it is treated in the same way as non- Kosher.

    Meir
    Guest
    Meir

    BS:D Sort of the same thing happened to me.Went to Tzivos Hashem dinner and walked into wrong ballroom.I am eating away at the smorgasbord when I realize that I don’t see any other Lubavitchers.I figure out that I am in the wrong place, but thank G-d it was kosher.Still felt bad, even Jackie mason speaking at the Tzivios Hashem dinner that night could not help me get over it,but one gets over it.

    Always look for a Hechsher
    Guest
    Always look for a Hechsher

    Deliveries require a hechsher,,, even from a kosher store. Always look for a hechsher on products you buy, Sometimes our own grocers have items that you are familiar with that is mistakenly on the shelves

    yes
    Guest
    yes

    when i tried to get kingston pizza’s phone number i googled it and this same non kosher kingston pizza showed up ……luckily i realized the ppl on the phone sound diff and found out i had the wrong#

    holiness
    Guest
    holiness

    Why is it that people use this site as a forum to expound on how frum other people should be. Citing sources, using fancy Hebrew words…..a mother was trying to tell her situation to enlighten others not to make the same mistake. How has that become a reason to tell people how long their Payos should be? Let people live and don’t preach to them…..let’s all look at the good in people. The negative is easy to find. The same thing with Chalav Yisroel. To say that Frum Jews are sinning….. preposterous.

    # 20
    Guest
    # 20

    Are you an expert in Halacha? To say that Chalav Stam is not Kosher??? Then why would the kashrus agencies…including one based in Crown Heights….give their Hashgacha on it?

    To say that it is stricter and better to eat Chalav Yisroel? Yes….but to say that it is the same as eating Treif….better check yourself on that one.

    Cholov Akum
    Guest
    Cholov Akum

    If you keep Colov Yisroel and you put Chaluv Akum in your oven you need to Kasher the oven. There is no heter by even the Rov who gave the Heter in the first place in a place like NY. Now for pizza that came from a treiefe pizza shop…. this is not an issue of cholo akum. this is about Bosur Vechalav. TREIF TREIF TREIF all treife pizza shops have milk and meat…. THIS IS WHY WE KEEP KOSHER and WHY WE HAVE HASHGOCHOS. It is the responsibility of the Hashgacha of the Pizza shops to make sure that… Read more »

    unbeleiveable
    Guest
    unbeleiveable

    They have to change their name to like Kosher pizza, or something, check out when you goole the name, http://goo.gl/xhPaK … That is absolutely crazy, for a kosher pizza restaurant to have the same name as, a treif on on the SAME street…. BTW of course all the comments on this post are going to be, the ‘it ALMOST happened to me’, they are the ones that found out, i bet there are alot more who never found out!!! good job posting this…

    To #17
    Guest
    To #17

    The pizza box does not have a hechsher as many kosher stores just get any pizza boxes from any company and use it.

    I called “kinston pizza” last week to ask a question. Instead of the tzach list ,I looked it up on the internet. But the address did not click, It should of been 3 something kingston and not 2__ __ kingston ave. I googled again,
    kingston Kosher Pizza and got the right tel. #. Sometimes its best to use the tzach list.

    to 25 and 20
    Guest
    to 25 and 20

    sorry, 25, but 20 is absolutely correct. cholov akum is literally like treif!

    Attention Mr. BenAbou
    Guest
    Attention Mr. BenAbou

    Please change your pizza shop’s name to avoid further
    kashrus errors and publicize it online .
    Thank You

    Perhaps
    Guest
    Perhaps

    a member of the vaad or community head should pay a visit to the non kosher kingston pizza and thank them and give them the number of the kosher one. They probably know it happens all the time.

    to  24
    Guest
    to 24

    aren’t u preaching?

    erm...
    Guest
    erm...

    HELLO!!! Forget about the cholov akum issue, the cheese probably has rennet in which is from animal fat, NOT KOSHER!!

    Thank you for pointing this out.

    Aaron
    Guest
    Aaron

    BS:D Thanks for the heads up

    Oy Vey
    Guest
    Oy Vey

    I almost ordered from the same place till I asked them what toppings they had and Pepperoni was one of them….I was like HUH???

    Chalav Stam in America is 100% Kosher
    Guest
    Chalav Stam in America is 100% Kosher

    The reason R’Moshe allowed non-chalav-yisroel milk is because in America there is a LAW that forbids other animal’s milk to be added to regular cow’s milk. So if it’s from a private farm, that would be real chalav stam, but any milk in a U.S. Supermarket that has an OU-d is pure cow’s milk. It is KOSHER. However, minhag Chabad is to eat only Chalav Yisroel.
    And if you eat a cracker that doesn’t have a hechsher, odds are it’s kosher anyway (though it might have chalav-stam dairy products) and is most deff not as bad as eating pork!

    tzachlist
    Guest
    tzachlist

    This is why you should be using the tzachlist to find jewish listings instead of googling…. http://www.tzachlist.com

    to #33
    Guest
    to #33

    Not all rennet is treif. All bosor B’cholov is. Kosher store
    would be wise to change its name, perhaps to
    Kosher Pizza.

    ouch!
    Guest
    ouch!

    what a nightmare! it was only bashert you eat this not kosher pizza! but thanks for letting us know about this.

    to #25
    Guest
    to #25

    Please. “are you an expert in halacha”? wouldn’t you do right to ask yourself that very same question before you are stating an opinion based on???
    in fact as

    Kingston Kosher Pizza should put themselves on Google
    Guest
    Kingston Kosher Pizza should put themselves on Google

    so when you search for Kingston Pizza 11213 they should also come up.

    Or better yet it should have a NEW Jewish name. (and also be on google)

    The place I am sure has Pepperoni Which is Chazer treif.
    Guest
    The place I am sure has Pepperoni Which is Chazer treif.

    While Chesse may be Cholov Akum. (which for a Yirei Shomayim is treif, even Reb Moshe’s heter was not for yirei shomayim, and he said Yeshivoids should not rely on it.) here they cook trief meat in the ovens…..

    ....
    Guest
    ....

    Gee you may as well have just ordered from McDonalds… Like seriously!

    let the buyer be aaware
    Guest
    let the buyer be aaware

    CHK has white tape with red letters, used to seal all “delivery” orders, from the butchers, the bakeries, restaurants, etc. Look for the tape – stapled on to the box or bag to prevent tampering. Changing the name WON’T help. We have to train ourselved to check EVERY package of food we buy. Heinz maked parve baked beans and treif baked beans. Tropicana Omega OJ has the “OK-F” made with talapia. It’s kosher, but if you don’t read the label you’re going to serve it with your meat dishes – which won’t be kosher either! Also, according to chabad poskim,… Read more »

    appreciative
    Guest
    appreciative

    How nice of our gentile neighbors to be sure that we eat kosher and not try to just make a sale. Something we can learn from them. We have fine caring people who we live with.

    Omg
    Guest
    Omg

    What is wrong with you people?! Hello we live right next to non Jews, why would you asumme that Kingston pizza is the only one in crown heights? And why should the pizza shop change the name to KOSHER? it is each ones responsibility to check and maintain the standard, why are you people so lazy?! Having things delivered in a silver platter (google instead of a book) is what caused this terrible thing in the first place…… for weeks!!! nebach 🙁

    bosur bichalav
    Guest
    bosur bichalav

    Just saying true bassar bicholov is only w kosher meat mixed w kosher milk…

    cholov yisroel
    Guest
    cholov yisroel

    For those of us that hold with the Rabbanim that say a Jew must actually “SEE’ the milking,and it is not enuf the “KNOWING” that it is absolutely , only milk from a cow, cholov akum is considered treif, must kasher keilim etc. It is not a hiddur, it is whether you go by having to have to See the milking or will you interpret it that it is enuf to know.

    Stop living in a bubble
    Guest
    Stop living in a bubble

    #46 took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn’t have said it better.

    I know everyone here wants to live in an insular bubble but we don’t. We must check for ourselves and teach our children to do the same.

    The Tzach list is in print and online. This is what it’s for.

    Kingston (Kosher) Pizza
    Guest
    Kingston (Kosher) Pizza

    No. 27 is absolutely right. If it almost happened so many times it is definitely a reason for the Kosher store to change their name. There are some halachas in shulchan aruch that are based on something that happened ONLY ONE TIME.

    To the chosuva owners of Kingston Kosher Pizza. There are so many good names to use. Chemda Kosher Pizza. Chedva Kosher Pizza. Kesher Kosher Pizza. etc. etc. etc.

    Bosor bcholov
    Guest
    Bosor bcholov

    As long as it’s from a kosher animal it’s still bosor bcholov even if it wasn’t shechted

    gevinas akum
    Guest
    gevinas akum

    you have it wrong. gevinas akum is harsher then cholov akum. especialy if the cheese dosen’t have any supervision ther can be problems of whey.
    in the piozza itself it can be traif also bosor becholov like peperoni etc

    same thing happened to me!
    Guest
    same thing happened to me!

    same thing happened to me but when the delivery man came to our door I realized it was the wrong place! Thanks for warning others!

    Hope They're Not Still Waiting
    Guest
    Hope They're Not Still Waiting

    Many years ago I called up Kingston Pizza to order a pizza for pick up and left my name. When I got to the kosher pizza store they insisted they had not received my call. I figured it out years later when I saw the other Pizza store. I hope they aren’t still waiting for me to come pick up the pizza. I think the non-kosher pizza store was using the name first.

    ovens
    Guest
    ovens

    have to kasher the ovens if you warmed up the pizza??

    To #46 & #49
    Guest
    To #46 & #49

    You live in a fake world. Not everything that should transforms into actuality.

    The REALITY of it is that people get mixed up, as represented by all the comments testifying it happened to them! The writer doesn’t seem to be complaining about Kingston Pizza not having a Jewish name, she’s just publicizing the incident (something that probably wasn’t easy for her) so that other people will be aware to double check when placing phone orders!

    And for all you tzach list fans, they don’t always have the listing that I’m looking for.

    Abba
    Guest
    Abba

    I would say change the Kingston pizza name at 395 Kingston to “Kingston kosher pizza”

    Pizza
    Guest
    Pizza

    Why cant people just be sensitive to the plight of this mother and not make her feel worse. It was a mistake and G-d is way more forgiving than some silly people!

    to 36! get informed on chalav akum!
    Guest
    to 36! get informed on chalav akum!

    get informed before you say such a things. the problem is not only if the milk comes from a cow. there are tons of many other problems with chalav akum, such as: sometimes when they take the milk out of the cows, the cow bleeds and therefore the blood is not batel and renders the whole machinery where the milk went in non kosher, thats why chalav yisroel check that those cows that go into the production line shouldnt have these deffect and are on top of them, for chalav yisroel its somehow a little bit more about kashrus rather… Read more »

    Inda Know
    Guest
    Inda Know

    Ever buy from Albany Bakery? Oops … or was that Albany Bakeshop?

    GOYIM ARE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE
    Guest
    GOYIM ARE MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE

    Read this comment from Google reviews about Kingston PIzza at 395 Kingston (the kosher kingston pizza adress)

    “The pizza was horrible. It was not hot and tasted sour. We ordered a hawaiian pizza, and when the delivery guy came, he delivered a cheese pizza for $21. ($18 for the pizza and $3 delivery. We called and said we had ordered hawaiian, and he claimed he told us they didn’t have that–a lie.
    Disliked: Food, Service, Value

    be happy
    Guest
    be happy

    there is nothing to be upset about hashem wanted it this way and hashem just wants us to realize that we are human and can and will make mistakes not to be broken just ackowledge accept and celebrate amen

    It was a "shogeg"
    Guest
    It was a "shogeg"

    This was a shogeg, not like the tznius exposures which is a mayzid and mach’tee ess harabim.

    buy the tzach list!!!
    Guest
    buy the tzach list!!!

    Buy the tzach list and this won’t happen. It’s only $1 dollar!!! Keep there # on your phones directory.

    I also made that mistake
    Guest
    I also made that mistake

    When they mentioned the price, I asked if I heard right and they said yes, we’re not kosher but I told them to deliver anyways because I ordered for 4 goyish movers who were moving us.

    mendy
    Guest
    mendy

    My out-of town cousin was visiting crown heights. We were supposed to meet somewhere and he was a little lost. He called me to say he was in front of kingston pizza. Of course it took me 20 minutes to realize he was at the “other” kingston pizza.

    OMG!!!!!!!
    Guest
    OMG!!!!!!!

    i just made this mistake last week, i ordered a pie and gave it to my ppl in my office…..and i just relised now…sheesh

    #36
    Guest
    #36

    doesnt matter that its illegal, do u think companies out 2 make a profit care about that??? the USDA lets the company know in advance that they r coming on a certain date. so they can put whatever milk they want but when the USDA comes…pure cows milk. so your logic is faulty

    Its very simple
    Guest
    Its very simple

    Milchigs delivered by a goy have to have be doubly sealed with a jewish siman. This is a halacha, not a chumra. Also fish and meat btw.

    dusnt matter bout milk
    Guest
    dusnt matter bout milk

    it doesnt matter about the milk/cheese – theres also non kosher dough & tomato sauce!!!

    require a tikkun
    Guest
    require a tikkun

    I think you should speak to mashpiim about a tikkun. In all likelihood the pizza is chazer trief with the pepperoni and keilim that are ben yomo.

    Agreed
    Guest
    Agreed

    I WAS GONNA say the same thing as comment 61. I noticed this too and yes, goyim ARE most definitely making the same mistake, just the other way around!! To stop confusions and frustrations, the KOSHER one should change their name, at least to kingston kosher pizza. why dont you double check you’re calling the right one when you see there are TWO on google? Dont just call any!

    I also agree with #58- dont make the mother feel worse, just accept it and let’s all move on and not do this mistake again.

    Yossi
    Guest
    Yossi

    I feel so sad that I have to write this , but people “Cheese in Halocho has its own Isur” it is called “Givnas Akum” which is s a lot stricter then Milk “Cholov akum”, and is prohibited by all Rabonim without exception….
    Yes Cholov Stam Is mutur according to most – but please dont mix milk and cheese it is like apples and oranges (in Halocho).
    with all the men learning Semicha, we would think that the lever of Am Ha’aratzus would be less.
    Girls and boys start learning Halocho

    me too
    Guest
    me too

    I googled the number and ordered the pie….when I called back to change the time I asked them the store hrs to which they replied….7 days aweek etc . Alarm bells went and after further questions I realized the mistake!

    Google has wrong website link
    Guest
    Google has wrong website link

    On google maps, kingston pizza (Kosher) is linked with http://www.kingstonpizza.com which is the non-kosher one. The Kosher number and address is linked to the non-kosher site. I reported a problem to google, let’s see if it will be changed.

    Box or Sticker?
    Guest
    Box or Sticker?

    when the pie arrives is it sealed with a cholov yisroel sticker??
    or is name of pizza shop on the box??

    yom kipor is michaper on evrything unles ther three things like the alter rebbe says in tanya and evin that iys mchaper
    Guest
    yom kipor is michaper on evrything unles ther three things like the alter rebbe says in tanya and evin that iys mchaper
    its made in the same oven as treif meat its not an issue of cholov akum!!!!!
    Guest
    its made in the same oven as treif meat its not an issue of cholov akum!!!!!
    "because everybody else does it"
    Guest
    "because everybody else does it"

    Actually this is just one example of a mutch larger problem. The problem is that we rely on letters and symbles and “what everybody else does” without double checking what we purchase as was done in the olden days for hundreds of years: 50 years ago you would go to the butcher and checked for all the chassimas on the meat you purchase. You had a “list” of goods that were approved by your shul’s rav, you made sure the “lot number” or serial numbers were indeed those on your approved lists. Somehow things changed. Since a U or K… Read more »

    let's learn, not criticize....
    Guest
    let's learn, not criticize....

    we have enough critics……yes our food is expensive, but, please, #3, let’s avoid the “besides the Jews….” frame of mind.Thanks to the mother for publicizing her mistake, and thanks to those like #58, who don’t want to make her feel worse than she does. There are lessons for all of us to learn. Kashrus ” crises” have, unfortunately, come in different, unexpected ways.

    #15
    Guest
    #15

    That happened to me once too. i was with a non-frum family friend and they took me to a restaurant and ordered some french fries (i was like 5) i asked if it was kosher and they said it was just potatoes and oil so i was eating it and only after did i realize what i did.

    Please!
    Guest
    Please!

    We all have lots going on in our lives, and we can not judge another in a given moment for how a particular oversight occurred. We all have made errors, unintentional errors. There are those who intentionally err, of course, but this woman is not one of them. A mistake is a mistake is a mistake. Each of us has made mistakes in a number of areas. Move onward and upward. And to the woman who posted her own mistake, I am pretty sure it is over and done with. The so-called “judges” seem to be the ones who have… Read more »

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