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Sunday, 13 Tammuz, 5780
  |  July 5, 2020

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Kicked Out Because of a Book

From the COLlive inbox: When I was in Yeshiva, my friend was "busted" reading a non-Jewish novel. Guess what was his excuse and what the Director did to him. Full Story

L’Chaim: Avtzon – Roubini

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*1 after all
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*1 after all

i love this

even if its fake?
Guest
even if its fake?

sorry but it wont work!! You got to be real

hahahaha
Guest
hahahaha

I hope this article is a parody or satire.

fake is not the answer
Guest
fake is not the answer

so much more damage can be done by a parent being fake. I grew up in a home that had non-jewish books – so did our cheder library! and i understood that in Yehivah these books do not belong. Your friend got kicked out for not having drech eretz and for not following the yeshiva rules. whether or not the rules make sense is another topic all together, but you’re way of thinking is a bit warped. As I said, when I went to yeshiva it was clear to me htat there are rules here. just as much yehsivah wouldnt… Read more »

Wrong
Guest
Wrong

I dont know what this author is trying to get at but I think he should mind his own business. He sounds a lot like those snobby elitists that nobody liked in yeshiva. Always “worrying” about the other boys’ spiritual status, but never having enough time to brush their teeth or take a shower. On a side note, I feel the only thing that kid did wrong was not listening to authority. I have no problem that he was reading a novel or sneaking some radio under his covers. I did it and thats what got me through Yeshiva. The… Read more »

A sad state
Guest
A sad state

Without comment on the intent of your article I’ll mention that as an outcome of your family protecting you from goyishkeit you can’t write English in a clear way. This is very sad. Why can’t our schools have mandatory English and Math? Is it goyish to be able to communicate properly? Does studying Talmud and Rambam not require at least a basic knowledge of mathematics? Kudos to Cheder Lubavitch in Chicago that makes it mandatory until grade 8.

Dovid

he shouldnt have broken the rules of the institution
Guest
he shouldnt have broken the rules of the institution

when a mosod creates a rule and a bochur breaks the rules what should hanholla do? doing nothing teaches children to not respect authority! being suspended = punished for not following the rules usually set out clearly in the handbook. if you dont like the rules a school has dont send your children there!

Mashpyim
Guest
Mashpyim

We need maspyim for balie teshushvah to make there transition in to real frum life easier and we need inspirational mashpyim for ffb to bring them back to a normal way a tamim is supposed to act 10 20 30 years after they are married.

Stupidity
Guest
Stupidity

you think its proper for a bochur to be thrown out onto the streets because he is reading a non jewish novel?!?! Do you have any idea what it means to kick someone out of a school? are you helping them, or damaging them further. No matter what happens at home the child has to listen to the school rules, a punishment should’ve occurred, but not tho throw a child on to the street. embarrassing way to run a yeshiva, and a chinch system.

 1970's..............
Guest
1970's..............

Crown Heights in the 1970’s NOBODY supposedly had a TV. However I observed that there was a blue glow coming from certain homes and it was not any unusual occurence. Many people had them but hid them in their closets …etc whatever. When the farbrengens became available by CABLE, this became an excuse to use to have cable. While most of the schools insisted that none of their students have access to any of the news/entertainment mediums available going so far as to make the family promise and sign , while it later came to light that it wasn’t unusual… Read more »

For anyone who thinks that fake won't work
Guest
For anyone who thinks that fake won't work

Please learn the last Mishna in Maseches Pe’ah (the one after Brachos). And remember that good is more powerful than bad. So if it is so with regard to bad things (as mentioned in the Mishna) how much more so when it comes to faking good things.

The audacity!!
Guest
The audacity!!

How dare someone suggest that parents take any responsibility for their child’s frumkeit and chassidishkeit!

EVERYONE knows that it is the educational institutions that are at fault. They are messing up our youth. It is THEIR job to make a generation of fine, upright chasidim–regardless of what the parents are or do.

FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT TRUE CONCEPT
Guest
FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT TRUE CONCEPT
baalei teshuva
Guest
baalei teshuva

I completely agree with #8 – Baruch Hashem, there are many baalei teshuvos (me being a child of two of them) and some have the right guidance and some, sad to say, don’t. If a child from a baal teshuva household is reading a goyishe book, and it is acceptable to read it at home too, is caught in Yeshiva but the parents donät understand what’s wrong, that could totally make sense. Then the Yeshiva should help the boy and give him more attention in positive areas and make him feel as if he WANTS to do better and WANTS… Read more »

comment #5
Guest
comment #5

well said

hello
Guest
hello

yeshivas have a ulterior motive of having full control, at that age bochurim wont be influenced by what some white bearded monster tells them. let them mind their own business. or perhaps it is more important that the guy be kicked out and leave religion.

please
Guest
please

daas baalei batim is heipech daas torah and your comments and article are inappropriate regardless of their notion

and number 12 i hope your joking

i love how the comments on this article are all furious, but over here its ok:
https://collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=16198&alias=2-children-rejected-for-tuition

#12
Guest
#12

You couldn’t be more wrong. If you think that what you do as a parent is irrelevant to your child’s upbringing and you can do whatever you want and will not affect your child in some shape or form, then you shouldn’t be a parent. You can’t just dump your children in a school and expect them to grow up properly. Schools are important in a child’s education and upbringing, but the parents role is as much, if not more important. I am not saying that if you are a chassidishe person you are guarenteed to have chassidishe children, but… Read more »

Do as I say but dont do as I do....
Guest
Do as I say but dont do as I do....

I made teshuva almost 30 years ago, in my teens, got married and build a chassidishe home the way I learned when I was in the 4 amos of 770. But when my children grew up and said ours were the only house where disney videos were not allowed, where there wasn`t a tv set I couldnt believe, but it was true, the rabbis where I grew and learned all had double standads, said one thing and did a different one at home…. 20 years later I know of dozens if not more, of bochurim thrown out of yeshiva for… Read more »

All
Guest
All

To all thos that are criticizing the article,i don’t think he thinks the hanhalah was wright.
i think,and as a bachur am not a fan of alot of the rules and the way hanhalah runs things,but what I do think is he had a point, you can’t blame somones freinds why he fryed out, but the people and atmospher usualy will afect him

I am confused about "abuse" in this article
Guest
I am confused about "abuse" in this article

I thought the abuse was going to be the fact that this boy was kicked out of school for reading a BOOK – and that this emotional damage was done to him being that his school couldn’t accept he might have mildly different reading interests than only reading sefarim. Instead of blaming schools for their over-the-top responses to these incidents, it seems the author wishes to blame the kids and their families. Damaging kids and embarrassing families by kicking kids out of school about a book choice is more abusive than a parent allowing their kid to read a non… Read more »

comment
Guest
comment

ok, this is a complex issue believe it or not. I am impressed by this bochur and by his family. However, what should I say. Many people have taavas and many h ave a lack of self esteem. In the area of the 2nd, those people (most of us to some degree) have a self esteem issue which could be lifted somewhat, by advice and general ahavas yisroel. But how to do that? We must reduce our Loshon Horah. NO more of : Oh, her dishes are never washed, or her sheitle (yada yada), or her kids are so wild.… Read more »

I totally agree
Guest
I totally agree

Rabbi d gopin always says that you have to follow the rules of the institution no matter how much “good” you are doing for the community

to all the mommy's out there:
Guest
to all the mommy's out there:

I work in Bais Rivka and have to watch how poor innocent children are embarrassed daily due to the insensitivity of their mothers. They sit at “circle time” trying to pull their skirts down because their Morah is singing “I am a Tzniusdike meidel…” and they are embarrassed, because they are not tznius. They didn’t choose to be that way. It’s mommy’s fault. One girl’s skirt was so short on a daily basis, she was so sad, and asked her morah to change her into someone elses extra clothing every day. Mothers: please be a little more considerate to your… Read more »

Moshiach
Guest
Moshiach

WE NEED MOSHIACH!

not all that perfect growing up...
Guest
not all that perfect growing up...

otherwise u would be more tolerant and less judgemental!!

Re: #18
Guest
Re: #18

Right, it doesn’t at all look like #12 was being sarcastic.

/sarcasm

chapter 11
Guest
chapter 11

Lubavitch today is not what it was. education today is not what it was. people today are not what people were in the past. so the entire world. maybe it is time for lubavichers to declare that the torah of today should (c”v) not be the same torah that it was etc, etc, then complain about being in golus for so long. dig the hole deeper the darkness will become as comfortable as the light, don’t wait till you collapse altogether, declare bankruptcy . maybe then moshiach will come

who'd've ever thunk it?!
Guest
who'd've ever thunk it?!

(yes, I know, the English is incorrect.)
A Chabad yeshiva/shul that is “insensitive” to children of Ba’alei Tshuvah parents?! Of all the the schools/places of worship in the world, Chabad’s should be the most sensitive! Isn’t that what Chabad is supposed to be all about? (gently bringing the lost sheep back to the flock?) Unfortunately, this is not always so.

Hmmm
Guest
Hmmm

I grew up in a house where we read not Jewish books too. Its the parents job to explain to their child, in our home, we can do A, B, or C, but it doesnt belong in school or at a friends house. Not to fake and pretend. Its ok to tell your child we can do something here and others dont, people have different standards and you need to explain that to your children regardless of you decisions regarding the issues you listed.

@commment 9
Guest
@commment 9

agreed 100%

To #24
Guest
To #24

Maybe you should sing, “I’m an Ahavas Yisrael morah” and then the kids can sing “I’m an Ahavas Yisrael meideleh”. If you know the kid feels bad about her skirt, why keep on embarrassing her? You won’t cause the mother to dress her in a longer skirt by embarrassing her child. Anyway, where did you learn that tznius is more important than ahavas yisrael? I learned that, “hamalbin pnei chavero brabim k’ilu shofeich damim”. Do you want that on your shoulders just so you can sing your song? The poor kid.

to #32
Guest
to #32

just so you know, they sing ahavas yisroel songs too. You want them to stop singing tznius songs because you decided it’s not important?? This is the Rebbes mosad we are talking about and even though many crownheightsers forgot what tznius means, doesn’t mean we have to stop singing it! Have Rachmonus on your kids!

true story
Guest
true story

these are very dangerous things

Twisted
Guest
Twisted

I started reading this article and it sounded like this guy was right on target, I thought you were going to address the issue of people lives getting screwed up because of a book. After getting to your point I see how twisted the mindset is and I’m disgusted? Are you saying it’s okay to ruin someones life because they are reading a book? Should someone be thrown out? Isn’t the hanholah there to guide and teach and not just to say “lahashem or laazazel? What if someone was brought up in a “chassidishe shtub” without a book and “rachmana… Read more »

School needs to learn how to better deal with these situations....
Guest
School needs to learn how to better deal with these situations....

Schools need to learn how to properly and discreetly handle such issues. There is no reason another student should know how this bochur was disciplined. And reading a secular book should not be a reason to throw a child out of school. By throwing him out, you are just reinforcing why a child shouldn’t listen to the school. The school needs to WORK with the child. Not throw him out and send him back to the place where he learned to do it in the first place!!!

well said!
Guest
well said!

Its like stupid parents who stuff their kids faces with junk food, and stuff their brains with TV, and then expect them to be healthy, AND to concentrate in school 😛 😛 😛

yes
Guest
yes

You are right! the solution for this problem is more deep than just taking them to te principal is to give the kids a good and deep education of being a real chossid!

WRONG
Guest
WRONG

I LIVE IN A HOME WHERE DISNEY IS ALLOWED, GOYESHE BOOKS ARE READ, AND WE FOLLOW FOOTBALL AT THE RATE LIFE IS GOING WE ARE GONNA TURN OUT A LOT MORE NORMAL THEN PEOPLE WHO DONT EXPOSE THEIR CHILDREN TO THE BARE MINUMUM

why was he kicked out?
Guest
why was he kicked out?

he should not of been accepted in the first place.
what right does a principle gave to expose pure kids to products of negligent parents, just because he could not stand up to the pressure of refusing him.
to all the liberals whining about “acceptance and tolerance”: this is america. capitalism, competition and the freedom to create a better society through proving you deserve it.

Books, movies, Internet, TV: deal with it.
Guest
Books, movies, Internet, TV: deal with it.

I did not have a TV in my house when my kids were growing up, but guess what! They went to their grandparents and watched TV! Oh the horror. In spite of this they all went on to make good shidduchim and raise chassidishe children ON SHLICHUS. They are successful precisely because they are not afraid of being out in the world.

???
Guest
???

i dont think that this makes much sence. whena bochur goes to yeshivah, regardless of what he does at home, there is a handbook that is enforced by the yeshivah. and every bochur is obligated to read the hand ook and comply to it. and before he goes to this yeshivah he knows that e cant have non-jewish novels there. so if he reads it and never the less goes knowing he cant have these books hes taking the responsibility that es not gonna bring them to yeshiva. if he doesnt think he could handel this rule or other ones… Read more »

To #16
Guest
To #16

”Some white bearded monster”?! ”Let them mind their own business”???!!! If that’s what you think, why do you go to Yeshiva in the first place? What’s the point of going to Yeshiva if you’re not listening to the Hanhola and going against the rules?

hershel
Guest
hershel

he was kicked out or sent home for a week?
is there a difference?
what really happened?

A Culture of Fear and Ignorance
Guest
A Culture of Fear and Ignorance

Some of the finest from rabbeim I know are well-read in secular studies. They can write well, speak eloquently, and debate. Their knowledge of current events, history, literature, and science does not detract from their Torah life, it enhances it. Lumping ALL “non-Jewish” novels together as treif is simply ridiculous. Torah U’madda!

he doesnt mean fake
Guest
he doesnt mean fake

he means NEVER do these bad things even though you want to or do all the chassidisher things even though you dont feel it. he didnt mean to only watch tv in your bedroom etc.

WOW
Guest
WOW

A strong chossid is one that can live in the modern world, relate and understand the modern world but still remain faithful to his/her Judiasm and torah. Torah does not shun us from living in society, keeping a secluded life causes us to live in the dark.

Fill your life with light
Guest
Fill your life with light

and you won’t have time for the darkness. I love listening to the classess and lectures of torahcafe.com or chabad.org. There is so much good quality kosher entertainment, books, articles, and education. And even if the english quality of secular novels etc. would be better, it is not worth the damage they could do for your neshama.

Well you know what:
Guest
Well you know what:

Deal with it. Its in the world and thats just the way it is and you cant change it. Their is nothing wrong with TV or Internet, on the contrary, some things are good! You can do what you like at home and your school has no control over your life. Hashem put us in a free world which has people to guide us, not control our lives. That is what people misunderstand all the time!

If you dont expose your children to it:
Guest
If you dont expose your children to it:

Then they will become not frum. I have seen and know living exaples of that!

Nurture!
Guest
Nurture!

You think you are helping by doing that! Its up to the child what he/she does and its up to the parents to help guide them in making those decisions. In school, you get educated, not adopted the last time I checked…

to number 40
Guest
to number 40

very interesting. fresh thinking.
i am very “liberal’ in deed, but i am captured by your logic.

I notice that everyone who shuns the secular world
Guest
I notice that everyone who shuns the secular world

…has very poor English skills. Why is this supposed to be a “good” thing? Being illiterate is not something to be proud of.

Chassidim and smoking
Guest
Chassidim and smoking

I have often seen Chasidim in Stamford Hill who are smoking and when I asked someone why they smoke when they know it is dangerous for their health. The man replied, It depends on which Rebbe you ask.”

priority Torah
Guest
priority Torah

The late Rav Shwardron, z”l, relates (Kol Dodi 157) that someone visited the Chafetz Chaim in Radin only to be met with a most unexpected reaction. “Leave my houe immediately,” said the tzadik. “I don’t want to see your face, for you are guilty of the murder of millions of Jews.” The man gasped in amazement but the Chofetz Chaim continued, “Years ago, you were in charge of a cheder and an orphaned boy, clever but wild, caused you many problems. You therefore decided to throw him out, although the only alternative tuition was at a secular Russian school. As… Read more »

chassidishe dress
Guest
chassidishe dress

Guess what?
Until 1996 no chabad yeshivos had a white shirt only policy (which I’m sure is part of your “chassidishe” dress code) hence you would have someone kicked out of yeshiva for wanting to wear what your father and grandfather wore to yeshiva!!

Ps obviously students in any school have to follow rules but your article is about what you believe are “global” chabad core rules.

ch resident
Guest
ch resident

I am sure a bochur was not kicked out only for reading a book. There is a lot more to this story. Also at first I was sure that #12 was joking but reading some comments, I am afraid that he means it. hashem yeracheim. The way our kids are today is 99% the fault of the home. It then continues with the wrong friends etc. etc. It is the fault of the parents. Many times they can not give one particular child what he needs emotionally etc. and maybe they are the product of their upbringing themselves but it… Read more »

Do so many not understand the article?
Guest
Do so many not understand the article?

The article is not about justifying throwing out a bochur. It is about the final point it was leading up to, namely, have a chassidisher home and prevent such issues to begin with. And that makes lots of sense. And to number 6, there is no reason to make Math mandatory. Beyond basic arithmetic, no one uses math in daily living. Algebra and similar memorization of formulas that no one uses in their day-to-day living (unless you are an engineer) are a total waste of time. Just because the world of university is stupid enough to make Grade 12 math… Read more »

Really?
Guest
Really?

Derech eretz is definitely not learned in yeshiva, I’ll tell you that.

ABSOLUTELY AND EVEN MORE!
Guest
ABSOLUTELY AND EVEN MORE!

children these days must be brought up the way our grandfathers were brought up in russia and ukraine…. every day they should go break the ice to go to mikva then go to cheder and learn the whole day nonstop.we shouldnt allow any of the american shtusim to touch our children. also always mever let your child go anywhere so he doesnt get anything from the outside world,, the only place they should be able to go is cheder, shuls (only chassidishe ones), and his room. NOWHERE ELSE! thats the way we should bring up our kids.

Send your kids to schools that match your lifestyle.
Guest
Send your kids to schools that match your lifestyle.

and Hashkafa.
So they dont have this conflict between school and home.

And if you want to send them to BR or OT- make sure your home matches the standards.

Happened to us
Guest
Happened to us

My son was reading a non-Jewish book( which was not his) He was put in a car without warning or taking his belongings and brought back to NY. He jumped out of the car and ran into the subway because he was afraid of our reaction. I spent 2 hours worrying about his life. What a horrible way to treat a young man. BH, He overcame this incident but we never have,The Yeshivas cause the problem and now we have thousands of lost bochurim. The Rosh Yeshivas should ask themselves why??

Dumbfounded
Guest
Dumbfounded

Reading makes you smarter. It develops your comprehension and your vocabulary grows. It makes you more articulate. It teaches you to spell and all of these things make you a better candidate for a job which means earning more money and supporting your children. Its no surprise the most anti education comments on this site are almost completely impossible to read because the grammer and spelling is so unintelligible. I look at how shluchim write, news pieces, fundraising appeals and thank you notes. Correspondence filled with the same kind of mistakes you see in these comments makes the Shaliach, his/her… Read more »

another morah
Guest
another morah

yup, the modern parents out there are hurting their children. the children who have tvs at home are noticed in the first 2 days of school. starting from the 2 year old class. they have no interest, or chayus to daven… they dont know how to play- or sit still and listen nothings stimulating enough for them… they have tantrums when they dont get what they want… …and the list goes on…. being in denial won’t help… if you wont do it for yourself- have pity on them- we have standards- so if you send your kid here- its YOUR… Read more »

insecure
Guest
insecure

if a student is a threat to another’s physicality (touches, takes, damages another’s objects or body) a school shouldn’t have to deal with that and the student needs a different institution for repair or education. but if a student says or thinks or reads or looks at things contrary to that which the institutions represents, it is the system’s role and honor and challenge to engage and convince and educate the student of his foly. if the system cannot engage but rather rejects and expels it simply says they are insecure. they don’t have the intellectual depth to counter what… Read more »

FYI
Guest
FYI

#35
In TT in Lubavitch, the Menahel (Rayatz) and the Rebbe (Rashab) had a policy: Anyone caught reading a “bichel” (book) was immediately expelled.
In those days it was books of socialism, democracy, revolution, etc., and the atmosphere was as explosive as a flame near hydrogen.
Nevertheless, one can say that expulsion of the individual may be important for the welfare of the rest. This stroy does not specify what “book” it was -Readers Digest condensed, or a graphic magazine often called a “book” (vedal)- or somewhere in between.

WHY RUIN ITFOR YUR OWN CHILD
Guest
WHY RUIN ITFOR YUR OWN CHILD

not exposing things for your kidsis just making things wrse instead the kid may want to live a chassideshe life butalso doesnt want to live in a bubble they want to live in reality and do u know what thois is why so many lubuvitch kids go offf becoase they are ot told if or why its wronge but instead punnished this is disgusting why did that yeshiva ocher need to be sent home why couldnt he have been taght or maybe spoken to they could have said isten were nnot saying your wrong for reading that book but were… Read more »

oy vey
Guest
oy vey

may we be proud to be chassidim and follow the ways the Rebbe instructed us in.
no more shtusim and yes the poor girls in our schools, if only their mothers would realise that they are not doing anyone good by dressing.g their kids like that and will be only doing.g them good by dressing tzniusdikly and being a role model themselves.
the mess is too big, we need Moshiach but at least lets try our little bit to improve.

wake up
Guest
wake up

to #58, what do you do for a living? Algebra only helps if you are an engineer? Universities are dumb for requiring 12th grade math? The critical thinking skills that are developed through algebra, geometry, calculus….and then statistics, are needed for MANY types of advanced degrees. If some people havgen’t noticed, we are in an economic environment that will not be getting any better for a long time. Jobs are scarce and without an education that rivals other potential job-seekers, one is in dire straits. Things are not the same as they were, and I dont think they will be.… Read more »

to # 32
Guest
to # 32

Love (ahavas yisroel) does not equal not having one’s own set of values, or adhering to halacha. Telling a teacher not to sing tznius songs because it might hurt a child who is not dressed tznius is like saying no preschool should ever sing a song about washing our hands/brusing our teeth because it might hurt the child whose mother does not make sure he/she does those things. Any school that creates a curriculum to please the court of public opinion would have to keep changing its curriculum at every parent’s individual and different opinion, and would not be a… Read more »

give them all ,a lot of love
Guest
give them all ,a lot of love

give them love love and love,show them care as if they are your boy or girl,learn how to live that way.

NOT IN THE REBBE'S NAME
Guest
NOT IN THE REBBE'S NAME

ANY ROSH YESHIVAH THAT KICKS OUT BOCHURIM FROM THE REBBE’S YESHIVOIS, OR PREVENTS A BOCHUR FROM JOINING HIS YESHIVAH, FOR WHATEVER REASON,CANNOT CALL HIMSELF A CHASID NEVER MIND A ROSH YESHIVAH….. HE IS A FAILED ROSH YESHIVAH AND NOT SUITABLE TO BE NEAR BOCHURIM, NO MATTER HOW LONG HIS BEARD IS OR HOW GEZHE HE IS, OR HOW LONG HE HAS BEEN IN THAT POSITION…

Where is the Eibershter in all this?
Guest
Where is the Eibershter in all this?

I read articles about kids being thrown out of yeshivos, and it hurts beyond belief. Our yeshivos have taken the roles of commandants. “Follow our rules to the T, or you’re out of here.” Once expelled, there is nowhere to go. The future will be filled with rejection, anger and rage, despair, and eventually rebellion. The alternative is so simple. The yeshiva has a chiyuv to be mekarev each and every talmid. Why does a trief eating, mechalel Shabbos, tinok shenishbah get kiruv and our own children don’t? No Rebbe of chassidus would tolerate pushing a bochur to the streets.… Read more »

A Shliach in a Lubavith Misevtah
Guest
A Shliach in a Lubavith Misevtah

I was Farbrenging with one of the chevre here in yeshiva about watching what our eyes see, i told him different Sichos of the Rebbe, and also told how watching movies puts you into a false world a world of Fantasy… after a while of me talking he said to me, “why should i think its bad if i watch movies with my father?!?” anther boucher told me when i asked him if he would say the bad and dirty stuff he was saying, in front of his father or mother, he said “ye i would, when they get upset… Read more »

Yeshiva Drop Out
Guest
Yeshiva Drop Out

I can tell u from experience that the main thing that turns off bochurim from yidishkeit is the extreme negativity the hanholoh uses against things which shoud’nt be in a yeshiva, if they would just have a little patience w/ the bochur & give him POSITIVE encouragement, Lubavitch would be in a much better place today

True Discipline is Kiruv
Guest
True Discipline is Kiruv

Many Gedolei Yisroel from Chassidishe and Litvishe stripes have all noted that the derech of “Smoll docheh” is no longer effective, and yields reactions that are unacceptable. We simply need to look at the outcomes to examine what works. The drop in centers are full of “at-risk” kids, of whom close to 100% (if not a full 100%) have been thrown out of at least one yeshiva. The ones that are tended to with loving guidance, “kiruv”, with the types of discipline that were described by Chazal, repeated many times by Baalei Mussar, Gedolei Chassidus, and especially by the expert… Read more »

Ridiculous
Guest
Ridiculous

The only mistake the kid made was not following the rules of the school. If the yeshiva doesn’t allow non-jewish books, then he should respect that and not bring any to school. However, what he does/doesn’t do at home is completely and totally between him and his parents! If parents want to raise their kids in a way in which they are aware of the world around them, then good for them! Where else will kids get knowledge of how the secular world works? Reading books and watching sports won’t turn a good kid into a bad human being. In… Read more »

True Discipline is Kiruv
Guest
True Discipline is Kiruv

Kids should follow rules. No argument there. My issue is that the consequences we concoct to punish a violator are more than often bizarre. The Medrashim on these parshiyos about the makos are replete with descriptions of exactly how each one was midoh kineged midoh, and in that way, the makos were also educational. However, we tend to create consequences that degrade the child, and make him suffer WITHOUT TEACHING HIM ANYTHING! Such messages are deadly, at least spiritually, and there is no heter according to Torah to do this. It is blasphemous to consider this “chinuch”. The last comment… Read more »

relevant post
Guest
relevant post

On the topic of foolishly thinking that one can do the wrong thing and remain connected to Hashem, the Rebbe, etc. see this post:

http://a-farbrengen.blogspot.com/2012/01/tricks-of-yetzer-hara.html

To 58
Guest
To 58

You say ‘Math makes many hate learning and feel like failures…. Gemarra makes you think. Math makes you memorize formulas and how to use scientific calculators that no one ever use (sic).’ Unfortunately, many of our kids these days hate learning Gemarra and feel like failures from learning it. By diversifying the scope of subjects in our schools it gives the children a greater likelihood they will find something they don’t hate to learn and something they can indeed succeed at. What you say about memorizing formulae may be valid. When I was a kid we also memorized the formulae,… Read more »

Learning Torah requires more than logic and skill
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Learning Torah requires more than logic and skill

Dovid (#80) addressed the challenge encountered with learning Gemora. The juncture of beginning Gemora is a known point of difficulty for chinuch. This is well known, and some have coped with this by beginning gemora a bit later. Others look for ways of presenting gemora differently from Chumash or Mishnayos. What is often missed is the focus on making Gemora learning enjoyable. When a rebbe makes his class so interesting that every talmid wants to come back the next day, he has achieved success. No matter how great the class is, if it fails to create a thirst for more,… Read more »

Seriously..?!!?
Guest
Seriously..?!!?

Stop being so critical and harsh. So the boy read a novel and didn’t see anything wrong with it.. now what? throw him out so he can go live by the ways of the novel? no! there needs to be more love and acceptance, especially in our generation

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