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Friday, 19 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 24, 2019

    Ignorance Is Not Bliss

    From the COLlive Inbox: A few years ago I did not understand Domestic Abuse. I naively believed there were two sides to every story. Full Story

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    thank you
    Guest
    thank you

    Kol Ha Kavod!! What a beautiful article, incredibly well put and i hope, helpful to many

    program sounds amazing!
    Guest
    program sounds amazing!

    It is time for a list of educated and caring therapist to be made and shared! If anyone reading this has had success with such a therapist please share their name and location for those who could benefit The mitzvah will be tremendous!!

    So true.
    Guest
    So true.

    Been there myself. Baruch Hashem I had the support I needed to get out and rehabilitate myself before it was too late.

    Its about time
    Guest
    Its about time

    good to see and read. it took awhile, but alot of this grief and aberrant behavior is finally coming up from underneath the carpet . It is time to take an honest look and appraisal whether it is mental health issues, abuse, domestic, sexual, etc. .Keep up the good work…acknowledgment of the problem, and its existence is the first step towards any possible recovery

    Kol hakavod
    Guest
    Kol hakavod

    Very true!! Especially the line that “the abuse will not be apparent to outsiders”. Having been an ” insider”, I can tell you how important it is to BELIEVE a woman when she says she is being abused and must get out!

    How True
    Guest
    How True

    My husband has narcissistic personality disorder (and he’s an addict) and it is common knowledge that in such a relationship – there are no “two sides to the story” . I cannot leave for many reasons- so I have learned the tools to stay safe, self care and preserve my sanity, and most of all, to connect to Hashem in a big way – and I could honestly say that after allot of personal growth, he no longer holds power over me (I am no longer an “enabler”) and I am experiencing a tremendous level of simcha and serenity even… Read more »

    It's awesome
    Guest
    It's awesome

    That is is being addressed in the community, much needed!

    Finally!
    Guest
    Finally!

    Unfortunately I had to make the decision to leave. I thought I’d stay for my children’s sake even though both myself and my children were being abused. It took until my son said, “Mommy why aren’t you calling the police, are you going to wait till we’re dead,” till my eyes opened and the realization that it was for my kid’s sake, to leave.
    It is my hope that others become educated and not fall prey. That others wake up and understand that this is real. That others support the victim, so that abuse will hold no power!

    To #6
    Guest
    To #6

    I admire u for coming this far but u deserve more!
    A lot of women stay for financial reasons , I can’t imagine that there is any other reason to stay in such a marriage. Personally I would rather live stone broke then in a non realationship.
    Good luck and may u see true simcha shortly in all areas!

    So Relieved To see This Issue Being Discussed Openly BUT
    Guest
    So Relieved To see This Issue Being Discussed Openly BUT

    until the various Rabbis and Mashpiim who are in a position to recognize and VALIDATE the experience of the spouse who is being abused, we still have a long, uphill battle. These are the people who should be in the front row seats for this gathering – will they be there ??

    You only need ONE
    Guest
    You only need ONE

    person who can actually HEAR you in order to begin to reclaim your sanity and your life. For me it was Bronya Shaffer who was my kallah teacher. She BELIEVED me whereas my own parents tried to comfort and placate me and giving me ‘good’ advice to make my marriage better. Only ONE person is what you need who hears between the lines that your marriage can’t be made ‘better.’

    A great therapist
    Guest
    A great therapist

    Dr. Sara Grozalsky 718-437-7315. Highly experienced, very good for marital issues, also for anxiety, counseling young people before marriage, etc.etc. She grew up in a Chasidishe home and has genuine Yiras Shamayim.

    abuse does not discriminate
    Guest
    abuse does not discriminate

    even teachers and even therapists can be in abusive relationships.

    the shame that prevents them from seeking help, and has them working incredibly hard to hide the abusive behavior which is not their own

    so painful to witness

    even more painful to live with
    i saw it and it

    junior nshei and mikva.org
    Guest
    junior nshei and mikva.org

    The article mentions that these flyers were given out at a junior nshei event. That incredible event was in conjunction with mikva.org. lets make sure to give them the credit they deserve.

    FROM A MAN
    Guest
    FROM A MAN

    While most abusers may be able, and the topic is usually addressed to women, men can be abused too. I was in a relationship many years with a woman who was extremely abusive and it was very difficult for me to get out. Nobody, and I mean nobody, saw her for what she was. Being a male victim of abuse is harder to spot. But what the writer of the article states must be heard by everyone, male and female: I learned that there isn’t any behavior a spouse can do that deserves to result in abuse. If you feel… Read more »

    Great article, so we'll said
    Guest
    Great article, so we'll said

    Wow #6 good luck. Living with someone with NPD is not simple at all. But neither is leaving one. I left mine and I am a lot happier but I won’t tell you it’s a walk in the park. Happy you’re in a good place

    Happy mom
    Guest
    Happy mom

    These lectures encourage divorce in the community. They encourage people to label everything they dont like in the marriage as abuse. Dont attend them if you know whats good for you.

    Much needed here in CH
    Guest
    Much needed here in CH

    CH lacks much enlightenment in this area.One major topic that I hope will be addressed is the discussion describing the profile and persona of the abuser. Many people are fooled by charm,charisma etc. and fail to comprehend that this seemingly charming individual can be monstrous as well.He can donate thousands to charity, give fascinating lectures and even can be spotted holding the blind lady’s hand as he assists her crossing the street. However,behind closed doors this very same man switches gears and behaves like a demon. He is capable of slapping his wife /children, assaulting his wife,berating her constantly with… Read more »

    unfaithfulness
    Guest
    unfaithfulness

    is also a form of abuse. To pretend to be a decent spouse in every way while living a double life is unbelievably traumatic to the betrayed and leaves grave wounds. This too is a case where there are no two sides, though that would be more comfortable for everyone to believe. sadly it happens in our communities and is so misunderstood. survivors feel like rape victims because they were unknowingly used by the same person who also went elsewhere. had they known they would have never consented. it is one of the most insidious forms of abuse and sooo… Read more »

    sooo happy
    Guest
    sooo happy

    So so happy and relieved to see this subject come to light!!! I have been living with NPD spouse who is abusive and controling and it is harder for me that people dont believe me then the abuse itself!!! they are extremely manipulative and very convincing! its quite scary
    Please educate yourselves..if not for you for someone else..this is SOOOO important! thank you to all the organizers for doing this!!

    To everyone on this page
    Guest
    To everyone on this page

    I was once a battered wife. I was young and in my twenties, without children. I left after 4 years of the most insane cruelty and horrific abuse. But the community wanted me to stay, even tried to intervene. But I left..I ran… An abuser stays an abuser forever. They are born this way..and it isn’t just a husband or wife, your own mother can be an abuser, your siblings can be abusers. There are many many narcissists in this world, they are like it from children, they are the bullies of this world, and many of them pretend to… Read more »

    FACTS and NOT OPINIONS
    Guest
    FACTS and NOT OPINIONS

    I do not know from which world the writer of this article is from, however, the world that the Rebbe has enlightened and lead is full of letter after letter from the Rebbe that there is NEVER (as a rule) a “disagreement” where one side is 100% correct and that the other side is 100% in the wrong. This scenario simply does not exist. The only aspect in question is if the the faults is divided 90%-10% or 80%-20% etc. It always takes tow people to tango. I am not here to judge each case individually, but unfortunately the cases… Read more »

    financially difficult
    Guest
    financially difficult

    For many the reason they don’t leave is because they don’t know how they will manage financially. I was really lucky that I had family to help me. Asking was not easy though. Every time someone dies there is a new Sefer Torah written. Why don’t some people start an organization in someone’s memory to help men and women financially so they can get out of these situations without the added difficulty of worrying how they will pay for food and electricity. And help with a good lawyer.

    Too number 6
    Guest
    Too number 6

    Thank you for posting. I too choose to stay with my abusive husband. And I am working very hard on myself to find inner happiness. I am working so hard to stop being an enabler. I know it is a long process and may take a really long time to be strong and wise enough to stop his his power from taking over me.
    Your post gives me faith that there is a way to stay together.

    To #10
    Guest
    To #10

    You wrote: “I learned that there isn’t any behavior a spouse can do that deserves to result in abuse.” You are wrong, and yes, there is. If you are abusive TO your spouse, it can result in being abused BY your spouse. Some people treat others in the same way that they are treated. Sometimes it’s fair game when both spouses are strong minded. The problem is, sometimes a spouse will only see the abuse that they are RECEIVING, but will not see the abuse that they are GIVING. The biggest perpetrators of the above-mentioned scenario are women. A woman… Read more »

    amazing speaker!!!!!!!
    Guest
    amazing speaker!!!!!!!

    to #16 Lisa twerskey helps people define abuse if it isnt abuse she’ll tell you so ,there isnt a reason for people to suffer in silence

    The Rebbe's Opinion
    Guest
    The Rebbe's Opinion

    The following is a free translation from Igros vol 6 page 143: With regard to Sholom Bayis, he should check the Mezuzos in his house. And he should, as much as possible in this, overcome his feelings.. And if he will act accordingly, hopefully the situation of Sholom Bayis will improve, and he will be able to report good news about it.. And although – as he writes – he has several complaints about his spouse, one must remember that the current Golus came as a result of the sin of Sinas Chinam, and therefore the remedy for it is… Read more »

    to #22
    Guest
    to #22

    I am certain you are wrong and quite frankly blaming the victim of abuse even a fraction of a percent is revolting and horrific.

    to #27
    Guest
    to #27

    The Rebbe is addressing shalom bayis in this letter but this is not a shalom bayis issue. That’s something that couples work on together. This is about ABUSE!

    To #27 comment!!!
    Guest
    To #27 comment!!!

    Our Rebbe’s advice and instructions are holy and pure. However, I stayed in an abusive marriage with a narcissistic sociopath for too many years trying to apply all of the Rebbe’s advice from books and all of the Chabad Chassidus that I B”H was blessed to be taught by amazing teachers. It only helped me to continue to blame myself, keep trying for Shalom Bayis, and prolonged the abuse. Until one day my Rabbi miraculously “de- programmed” me from the brainwashing effects of my now EX husband thank G-d. This Rabbi who is Chabad from birth and very well versed… Read more »

    Be THERe
    Guest
    Be THERe

    Yes! we do need our Rabbis, Kalla and Hassan trainers, to be educated on the subject of abuse, and by your presence, you are showing that this is an important issue that needs to be recognized and dealt with a very different approach than the typical lack of proper communication skills between two people.

    so happy
    Guest
    so happy

    finally somthing needed in the cummunity

    Question
    Guest
    Question

    Is this event only for people in a abusive relationship? Or can one attend if they know someone that’s in a bad place and wants to help, but doesn’t know how???

    Ludicrous!
    Guest
    Ludicrous!

    To 17. Your comment stems from sheer ignorance.Women that have left abusive spouses are heroines and brave warriors.Lectures don’t create abuse.Quite disheartening that you don’t have enough empathy to attend lectures as such .If you would be enlightened on this serious subject ,you would be able to use this knowledge to help another woman that is suffering. This is 2015. Educate yourself .Time to get your apathetic head out of the sand. Btw it sounds like an abusive spouse may be preventing you from going.That comment about lectures creating abuse is a famous line that abusers use.They blame the therapists… Read more »

    To #28
    Guest
    To #28

    Blaming the victim? Why would you say that I am advocating to blame the victim – ה’ ישמור – when I wrote nothing like that whatsoever? Do you have an agenda here of some sort?
    Whatever the reasoning is, I will make myself clear once again, and that is that in the real world there is no such thing where one side is 100% in the right and the other side 100% in the wrong!! it takes two to tango! and NO, domestic abuse is NEVER justified no matter how much percent you are in the right.

    Immaturity
    Guest
    Immaturity

    Unfortunately, many people are immature, self centered, and unwilling to compromise for way too long. Perhaps they never learned to share or everything had to be their way since infancy. These immature men and women could dress and speak very well so it could be confusing. From my experience in marriage I realized that a decision made is based on what is best for the family or best for an individual. One must be able to tell the difference. As for not getting confused by the charm and deception, learning and experience are key. Classes are necessary for everyone, before… Read more »

    to #19
    Guest
    to #19

    so true and so terrible:( specially for spouse for even more so for their kids:( need tremendous amount of support and love to survive and thrive

    Evil does not get a chance...
    Guest
    Evil does not get a chance...

    …any longer! Finally being pulled out in the open, in the light, for the purpose of getting done with and eradicated! So much progress has been made, so many researchers on five continents, all right on!!!! It’s just bound to give you hope… Dr Miriam Adahan is a great therapist fluent in the matter for many decades already… Now there are incredible books that will validate all kinds of experiences as well as give you valuable tools to handle the situation, and don’t you stagnate and let the cycles repeat …. I recommend author Patricia Evans for verbal abuse. A… Read more »

    dov
    Guest
    dov

    Please don’t mix the Rebbe and Torah into this
    There is shalom bayis issues. In that case, rarely is one side totally right or wrong
    Then you have abuse issues. One side is an abuser, and one side is abused.
    Let’s not confuse these two issues

    Lundy Bancroft!
    Guest
    Lundy Bancroft!

    Excellent expert in abusive personalities that far surpasses anyone else I know about so far. He has a web site, and a few books (some for the lay person and some for professionals). I cannot recommend reading his books enough. He holds the abusers accountable for their actions rather than finding excuses for them! His knowledge is deep since he actually started by trying to help the abusers change (a very slim chance until Moshiach comes!), and then after many years and thousands of abusers that he had treated, he decided to use his knowledge that he gained in order… Read more »

    Real heroes are #6 and #24
    Guest
    Real heroes are #6 and #24

    Kol Hakovod to both of you! You are true role models. Halevai many more women would speak up. Some abuse victims MUST leave their spouses. And there is no way to minimize their pain, or blame them. BUT – many others can be helped without destroying their marriage. Leaving a marriage brings a slew of its own problems. Working with a therapist (alone, many abusers will refuse to go to therapy), an abused spouse can learn the behavioral tactics that allow her (or him) to take control of the situation. Divorce is not always the best approach. I can already… Read more »

    to #17 - You are absolutely right
    Guest
    to #17 - You are absolutely right

    Invariably, when you hear or read about any issue, you believe and feel that you too have that problem, even when you don’t! Example – mention head lice, and everyone suddenly begins to feel their head itch! Not every issue in a marriage is abuse. Some are just bad middos. Forgetting to pick up milk on the way home from shul might be just that. He forgot. Yes, it can also be part of a larger set of passive-aggressive behaviors on the part of an abuser. A spouse can be unromantic, selfish and self-centered. Let’s add stingy and unappreciative to… Read more »

    LA MORAH
    Guest
    LA MORAH

    The old 2 to tango saying just doesn’t apply in the the situation of abuse-educate yourself!

    in search of a good therapist
    Guest
    in search of a good therapist

    To number 12 thanks for posting, can you provide any more info about Dr grozalsky (personality, methods,etc) and can anyone else post a therapist you had a good experience with? Real, warm, validating, wise, flexible, etc

    To #43
    Guest
    To #43

    Can you please back up your statement with facts, or is this an opinion?

    Be realistic
    Guest
    Be realistic

    Every engaged couple should be told that ALL marriages will have their bad times. It will not always be sweetness and light no matter how well the couple are suited to each other. This is a fact of life. There may be times when one despises the other, says or does terrible things. Young newly engaged couples must be warned early on that life will not necessarily be lovey dovey all the time – couples have to struggle and learn to compromise/come to terms with a certain amount of disappointment.

    to 46
    Guest
    to 46

    well, though i do not fully disagree with you, There are certain behaviors that call to no compromise . but rather to immediate professional help. Come hear about abuse.

    Hearing about abuse solves nothing...
    Guest
    Hearing about abuse solves nothing...

    Every Kallah and every Chosson should be taught by the Kallah/Chosson teacher to reach out for help when needed. No one need suffer. And every kallah/chosson teacher should be prepared to refer to a professional therapist. In most cases, all the teacher will probably say is “It is not your husband who has a problem. It is ALL men who…” (fill in the blanks. forget their wives birthdays, are oblivious to their needs). And every Mikveh woman is prepared to recognize signs, even hidden signs, of physical abuse. Lectures only aggravate the problem. Cases must be treated individually. Today’s Rabbonim… Read more »

    dont mix !!!!
    Guest
    dont mix !!!!

    Couples have sholom bayis issues or couples may fight or not get along and in most cases they both need to change and learn and work on the marrige. And then there is ABUSE ! where one is the abuser and one is the victim! DONT CONFUSE SHOLOM BAIS AND ABUSE. TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS ! amazing that this event is happening! I hope many newly married woman come so they can know right away if they are in sich a marrige. And i hope many woman in general from the comunity come so they realize that this can happen… Read more »

    looking forward
    Guest
    looking forward

    Thank you for organizing this event.

    Serious issue - but need to recognize whole picture
    Guest
    Serious issue - but need to recognize whole picture

    This is a serious issue. But it’s one that needs extreme care or thousands of lives can be thrown into turmoil needlessly, G-d forbid. I’ve got to say that I wish that this important issue was being handled by trained rabbonim like Rabbi Heller. It’s a problem that needs to be dealt with responsibly, but we also need to ensure that more harm isn’t done than good. I know and trust Mrs. Schaffer. I don’t know Lisa Twersky and there have been a lot of problems stemming from NYU graduate social workers. Basically, all I’m saying is that I hope… Read more »

    to 48
    Guest
    to 48

    hearing about it is the only way to be able to recognize that a problem exists and direct people for help.
    lecture is given by an expert on abuse with the goal of education and awareness.
    when awareness is present , kalla and hassan teachers , rabbis, mashpiyim will be able to differentiate between pple that need tips for better relationship and those who needs to be directed to specialists.
    terrible mistakes are done from well intended people that send back a spouse to be abused even more.

    To 52 from 48
    Guest
    To 52 from 48

    “hearing about it is the only way to be able to recognize that a problem exists” Thank you for proving my point exactly! So you are saying that there are “victims” in our community who do not even know that they are victims? And they need to be taught that they are being victimized and abused? Otherwise they might just think that they are happily married, with nothing more than the standard ups and downs of all marriages? Every Rabbi, mashpia, Rov, Chosson teacher, Kallah teacher, madrich should attend all such lectures, learn to recognize signs of real abuse and… Read more »

    LA MORAH
    Guest
    LA MORAH

    They don’t think they’re happily married. They’re either in a habitual; daze or they know they’re miserable but don’t know what to do. I question why YOU are so against educating ourselves about abuse.

    Without walking in someones house its hard to know
    Guest
    Without walking in someones house its hard to know

    When someone comes to you and says: “I am being abused” It is honestly hard to believe the person. On the other hand, you can’t not believe, or you lose the persons ear and their trust. They came to you looking for help with a complaint. Is it real? Answer: YOU CAN’T KNOW However, their pain IS real. Its like a child who comes to you crying the other one hit him. Did you see it? No. What to do? You call in the other kid. “Why did you hit your brother?” “Because he hit me!” Okay Now you turn… Read more »

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